Overview and Scrutiny Committee - Tuesday 25 November 2025, 6:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Overview and Scrutiny Committee
Tuesday, 25th November 2025 at 6:00pm 

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  1. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  2. Mr Jake Hamilton
  3. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
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  1. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
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  1. Cllr Rebecca Shoob
  2. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  3. Cllr Rich Holgate
  4. Cllr Rebecca Shoob
  5. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  6. Cllr Rich Holgate
  7. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  8. Cllr Paul Thomas
  9. Cllr Rebecca Shoob
  10. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  11. Cllr Paul Thomas
  12. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  13. Cllr Alan Martin
  14. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  15. Cllr Alan Martin
  16. FHDC Officer
  17. Cllr Alan Martin
  18. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  19. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  20. Cllr Laura Davison
  21. Cllr Rebecca Shoob
  22. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  23. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  24. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  25. Cllr Laura Davison
  26. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  27. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  28. Cllr Bridget Chapman
  29. Cllr Rebecca Shoob
  30. Cllr Bridget Chapman
  31. Cllr Rebecca Shoob
  32. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  33. Cllr Anita Jones
  34. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  35. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
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  1. Cllr Jim Martin
  2. Microphone A
  3. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  4. Cllr Rich Holgate
  5. Cllr Jim Martin
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  7. Mr Ewan Green
  8. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  9. Cllr Laura Davison
  10. Cllr Jim Martin
  11. Microphone A
  12. Mr Alan Mitchell
  13. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  14. Cllr Alan Martin
  15. Cllr Jim Martin
  16. Cllr Alan Martin
  17. Cllr Jim Martin
  18. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  19. Microphone A
  20. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  21. Cllr Anita Jones
  22. Cllr Jim Martin
  23. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  24. Cllr Paul Thomas
  25. Cllr Jim Martin
  26. Mr Ewan Green
  27. Cllr Paul Thomas
  28. Mr Alan Mitchell
  29. Cllr Paul Thomas
  30. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  31. Cllr Rich Holgate
  32. Cllr Jim Martin
  33. Llywelyn Lloyd
  34. Cllr Jim Martin
  35. Cllr Rich Holgate
  36. Cllr Jim Martin
  37. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  38. Microphone A
  39. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  40. Councillor Tony Hills
  41. Cllr Jim Martin
  42. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
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  1. FHDC Officer
  2. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  3. Cllr Paul Thomas
  4. FHDC Officer
  5. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  6. Councillor Tony Hills
  7. FHDC Officer
  8. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  9. Cllr Rich Holgate
  10. FHDC Officer
  11. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  12. Cllr Alan Martin
  13. FHDC Officer
  14. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  15. Cllr Alan Martin
  16. FHDC Officer
  17. Councillor Tony Hills
  18. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  19. FHDC Officer
  20. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  21. Cllr Laura Davison
  22. FHDC Officer
  23. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  24. Cllr Anita Jones
  25. FHDC Officer
  26. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
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  1. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  2. Llywelyn Lloyd
  3. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  4. Cllr John Wing
  5. Llywelyn Lloyd
  6. Cllr John Wing
  7. Llywelyn Lloyd
  8. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  9. Councillor Tony Hills
  10. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  11. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  12. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  13. Cllr Anita Jones
  14. Llywelyn Lloyd
  15. Cllr Anita Jones
  16. Llywelyn Lloyd
  17. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  18. Cllr Anita Jones
  19. Cllr Alan Martin
  20. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  21. Llywelyn Lloyd
  22. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  23. Cllr Rich Holgate
  24. Llywelyn Lloyd
  25. Cllr Rich Holgate
  26. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  27. Cllr Laura Davison
  28. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  29. Cllr Paul Thomas
  30. Mr Alan Mitchell
  31. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  32. Cllr Elaine Martin
  33. Llywelyn Lloyd
  34. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  35. Webcast Finished

Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:00:00
Good evening and welcome to the meeting of the Overview and
Scrutiny Committee.
This meeting will be webcast live to the Internet.
For those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed, you'll need
to leave the Chamber.
For members, officers and others speaking at the meeting, it is
important that the microphones are used so viewers on the
webcast and others in the room may hear you.
Would anyone with a mobile phone please switch it to silent mode
as they can be distracting.
I'd like to remind members that although we all have strong
opinions on matters under consideration,
it is important to treat members,
officers and public speakers with respect.
So we start with the first item, apologies for absence.
Are there any apologies for absence?
Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:00:46
Thank you, Chair.
We have no apologies.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:00:48
Thank you.

1 Apologies for Absence

2 Declarations of Interest

Next, declaration of interest.
Are there any declarations of interest from members?
Thank you.

3 Minutes

Minutes. We need to consider and approve as a correct record minutes. The meeting held on the 4th of November 2025. Can we have a proposal, please? Thank you, Councillor Thomas and a seconder. Thank you, Councillor Hills. And can we vote on that? Thank you very much.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:01:19
Item 4, membership updates, Otter Paul Park, Task and Finish Group, phoned the Political
Balance Review at full council on 25 June 2025.
Members are asked to agree the following.
Point 1, to note the changes to political balance as set out on the agenda and Point
you to note the appointment of Councillor Paul Thomas to the OSC Task and Finish Group
as a Liberal, Democrat and Independent representative. And could I have a proposal, please? Thank
you, Councillor Davies. Can we have a seconder? Thank you, Councillor Hills. And can we have

4 Membership update - OSC Task & Finish Group - The Delivery of Otterpool Park

a vote, please? Thank you. That's carried. So item 5, Cabinet member update. In accordance

5 Cabinet Member update

Council of the Constitution, Council Rebecca Shube, Cabinet Member for Housing and Homelessness,
is present to provide a committee with the Cabinet Member Update.
Councillor Shube.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:02:15
Thank you, Chair, and good evening, everyone.
So my report, written report, outlines the main things that have been going on across
housing since my last report to you.
I think it was this time last year.
So there have been two really significant pieces of housing legislation that have passed
recently.
First of all the Renter's Rights Act.
Since submitting the report we have now had an indication of the new burdens funding and
it's really important to stress I think that there was going to be a lot of work for the
Councils have extensive new duties under this Act,
but the funding that we understand to be in the region
of 40 to 50 ,000 pounds for this year,
which I think compared to the amount of work
that the team is gonna have to do
to continue getting ready for the new duties,
I don't think that's gonna really reflect
or cover the work that's gonna need to be done.
So that will create pressures, I think, for the team.
We've also had AWAB's law passed.
The team is very well prepared already for this.
And our contract with Meers already
operates within the time scales of the new law.
Onto decent home standards.
We've had really good stats over the year
meeting the decent home standards.
We've also employed a stock condition surveyor to carry out rolling home improvement surveys.
And I think knowing about our stock is really, it's absolutely essential, helps us to keep
on top of things and make sure our stock really is in the best condition that it can be.
We've got now over three quarters of our HRA stock homes.
They're now at EPCC or above through the work that's been going on through the Social Housing
Decarbonisation Programme.
We're getting good reports from tenants both in terms of the comfort levels and the savings
that people are able to make on energy bills.
This year we've also had completed a really significant million pound project at Wind
Pine House, one of our independent living schemes, which had a hugely inefficient heating
system, which was also prone to breaking down a lot.
So they've had, work's been completed on a new heating and lighting system there.
And we've got a study underway looking at how we can improve the communal heating at
other independent living schemes.
And if we can get those schemes improved, we should see significant impact on energy
efficiency in those schemes as well.
In April, we had the new repairs and maintenance contract started with MERS, and that's going
I think really well.
We've had a – there were a number of improvements in the new contract, and I wanted to highlight
In particular, the new role of the resident liaison officer.
He's a dedicated person who can go and visit tenants
and give them any reassurance or information
that they need about any works that are going to be
taking place in their homes.
And so that's really proving really helpful in making sure
that people are as comfortable and well -informed as possible
about what's going on in their home.
So obviously hugely important to all of us, I think, is adding new homes to our HRA stock
and we have made some really good progress on this.
We had some homes added earlier this year in Folkestone and we've got coming on screen
at Risborough Barracks and 26 in Hives,
which should be ready next year.
Sadly, we have had a huge increase in the number
of households needing temporary accommodation.
And that's a trend that is nationwide,
so it's not particular to our district.
Tomorrow we've got a recommendation going to full council seeking approval for a £5
million budget to invest in increasing our own stock of temporary accommodation and that
is primarily to reduce the cost to the general fund which we're currently having to rely
on private nightly lets for most of our temporary accommodation and the funding we get for that
doesn't cover the costs at all.
So that's a recommendation going tomorrow to Council.
In addition to that, we are going
to be using a small number of our existing homes
for temporary accommodation where appropriate
and when they become available.
Obviously, it's a really careful balancing act
because those homes, the HRA homes,
obviously provide the long -term accommodation
that we need to get people out of the temporary accommodation.
So finally, you'll be looking at more detail at the tenant satisfaction measures this evening,
but again, I think the results there really speak to the amazing work that the team does,
and I'd like to express my thanks to all the housing team for everything they do.
And I'd like as well to thank the finance team for all the work that they do to support
the investment and all the proposals we need to increase, improve our stock and to provide
the service that we want to provide to our tenants.
So hopefully that gives you a good overview of the main issues and activities that have
been going on in housing this year.
I'm very happy to take any questions
and I may well pass them over to Andy to help out with that.
So thank you.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:08:51
Thank you very much, Councillor Shubbe.
Any questions from members?
Yes, Councillor Holt.
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:08:59
Hello, thank you so much, Councillor Shubbe.
That was a great update and obviously for the offices
and the hard work they're doing too.
I was curious, maybe some pedantry on the EPC target for 100 % for homes by 2030,
given the council end by 2028.
Can we have a look at whether we could bring that target into 2028?
On the decarbonisation work.
And then I was...
Actually you answered some of the questions, so that's fine.
Just that one for now, thanks.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:09:36
Yeah, I'm sure I'd like to have everything up to, you know, EPCC and above as soon as
possible but I will pass that to Andy for further comment.
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:09:47
Thank you.
We've got a programme that sets us to 2030 and obviously these are big budget items, some
of this, so whilst we're making really great progress over sort of the last four or five
It is going to take the next three years to get that up to three or four years up to that
point.
So, as I said, we're moving away from the end of the social housing decolonization fund
now to find it's more efficient from a time and reporting point of view to run our own
systems in -house.
In order to do that, you're not using tier one contractors where you have big preliminary
costs and big overheads and stuff like that and running the programme myself.
part of this with as Councillor Shude mentioned we've got our own stock surveyors, we've got
our own EPC surveyors so we're going around on a cyclical basis doing all of this to identify
what needs to happen in each of the stock and we've got all of our contracts now set
up to establish all the measures required to get to EPCC in every property so there's
a developed programme taking us from now to 2030 in order to deliver that and there's
£1 million that's set aside in the business plan to do a set number of homes per year.
Obviously to balance all of the needs in the business plan we can't just bring all of that
forward because we're also delivering new homes, we're delivering a capital programme
and we're doing all the other things that we need to do in the HRA and all the other
things that we're now bound to do via ordinary legislation is coming in. Hopefully that helps.
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:11:20
It does and I swear to get it, before we lock the door and hand the keys over to another unitary, I'd love to have been able to hand over our stock in our residence to have the work done but I totally get the chances of that. Thanks.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:11:35
Thank you. Councillor Thomas.
Yes, thank you, Chair.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:11:41
Some great news there.
It's great to see that with the Renters' Rights Act and with ABUG's law that we're on the
front foot with that, which is really good news for those people who desperately need
our support, because again, you'll find they're the most vulnerable members of our community,
aren't they?
Great news on the new homes as well, and it's good to see that we're moving west.
We've gone down to Hyde, and you never know, maybe Romy Marsh will be next.
But we'll have to see, won't we?
Thank you, Andy.
And just in terms of the no use empty scheme,
I think one of the downsides of the no use empty scheme
is the fact that if landlords, if the owners of those
properties don't work with us in some way
to try and get resolution to try and bring those back
onto the market.
And as you know, Dan, in my particular ward,
there's a particular issue with a couple of homes down there.
It does make it exceedingly difficult for those people who are living next door to empty properties,
where they're seeing degradation of their own properties,
they're seeing vermin infestation,
they're seeing those things are degrading their properties
and they seem like there's nothing they can do about it.
So I just wonder at some other time in a future report
if you could just give us a little bit of an update really
in terms of the numbers associated with that
and so we can actually put over a positive message about things that have been brought back into the housing market.
I think that would be great actually.
And one final point if I may, just under a point that you've raised about homelessness and temporary accommodation.
Just in terms of temporary accommodation that's available for people who have more complex physical and mental health needs,
Some of the things that we're able to provide in terms of temporary accommodation doesn't
meet their needs where we give them an overnight shelter but they're out in the daytime.
Some of those people actually struggle because they've got nowhere else to go.
So I just wonder, is there a possibility that we could look at what we can do to support
some of those people who are, again, the most vulnerable people, particularly at this time
of year, which is the most difficult time of year for them?
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:14:03
I will let Andy give a bit more detail.
I think I mentioned in my report, just to your last point about temporary accommodation.
Temporary accommodation is not the same as the...
I think you're perhaps thinking more about the sort of winter shelter,
hostel kind of accommodation.
So those are the sort of separate things I've talked about in my written report,
that the hostel at the Rainbow Centre is opening
and obviously we've got the winter shelter opening next week,
1st of December.
But, yeah, there is a lack of supported accommodation, full stop,
and certainly very conscious of the need for more disabled adults
disabled ready homes etc etc.
Yeah, I think it all boils down to that we need more
accommodation across the board full stop.
But if I can let Andy pick up the detail on some of those points.
Thank you.
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:15:10
Thank you Councillor Shug.
I mean it's a big topic, a big big topic.
Supported accommodation and what we provide and what is provided by other partners.
So where we're talking about the most vulnerable people in society.
A lot of our role is signposting with partners and making sure that these people are on the radar of other agencies that we work with.
Having said that, we have got a number of homes now which we've secured through the Next Steps accommodation programme,
where it is working with some of the most vulnerable people and some of the hardest people to house who have been long -term homeless with real deep ingrained issues.
and we've got a number of people now in our properties
and we're working with that whole support network around them,
really trying to get them back sort of socialised into normal life.
So there's lots of stuff we are doing,
but there's also a lot of stuff that is down to partners,
so it's not actually district council responsibility,
but our role is signposting and linking up
and making sure that that support is available for people.
Just one more point to say.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:16:18
I think it's really good that, and it's a real positive, the resident liaison officer
role.
I think that might help to address some of the questions I've got with regard to the
housing tenant satisfaction survey that we'll be going through later on in the agenda.
So again, it might be that those two things will balance themselves out in terms of some
of the questions I've got and some of the replies we've had on that survey.
That's all I want to say.
It's a very positive piece.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Councillor Alan Martin.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:16:49
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:16:53
I won't repeat anything anyone else has said, but there's loads of great activity going
on.
It's really good to see.
And I was also going to mention the resident liaison officer role.
I was curious to see whether that was something we asked for or whether that was something
was proactively offered to us but it definitely seems to be having a big impact and I was
going to say something similar around the fact that it would be quite good to get them
down on the marsh and quite visible given what we're going to be discussing later on
with the residents satisfaction survey.
I had a question on the damp and mould piece and that's whether is there an onus on us
to proactively cheque properties.
I think I was reading the fact that
it's predominantly based on issues being reported to us
and then us having to respond.
But it struck me that maybe some of the most
vulnerable residents aren't necessarily
in the best position to reach out to us
or would think to do so.
Oh, and I'll let you answer that first
and then I've got a question about de -porn.
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:18:01
Thank you, there's no specific onus on us to do that under a
works law, but there is obviously all the obligations
are about how quickly you react after it's been reported to you.
Having said that, we have a lot of officers in a lot of people's
homes. All the time we've already talked about stock
condition surveys, EPC rate surveys, our neighbourhood
officers are caretakers. There's all sorts of people in people's
homes, our properties all the time and anything that is seen
does get reported back. So we do try and be as proactive as
I mean, Mike's got the same in all of the independent living schemes as officers.
In there all the time, I mean, we've got our independent living officers in the schemes
doing daily cheques, weekly cheques, and things like that.
So stuff gets reported through it and we can react really quickly.
So we've recently formalised a lot of the procedure stuff that we've had, but we've
been working towards it for quite a long time anyway.
So it's been quite a smooth process transitioning into what we need to do now.
But we are expecting there to be more work.
Thank you.
Oh, go ahead.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:19:03
FHDC Officer - 0:19:07
Sorry, no, if I may, I was just going to add on the back of what Andy said, the whole housing
team is aware that it is everybody's responsibility.
It isn't just the repairs team.
It's all of our jobs to make sure that we're noting and reporting these things.
Thank you.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:19:22
And then on the de -pooling.
So I completely agree with the aims of de -pooling and it's absolutely the right thing to do.
I also know from some conversations we've had in the past,
it creates some, well it's not easy to do,
and it has some complexity within it.
And I have it in my mind that,
particularly in rural areas like the marsh,
we've got some odd situations like the waste treatment plants
that serve a small number of properties.
And I know when I raised some concerns of residents
around their escalating costs,
I actually came to realise that they were actually
currently protected by the by the pooling in that some people would see significantly
higher costs for their services if they were properly allocated out.
So just keen I know we've got a session coming up on this but keen to get some yes some some
thoughts on how we try and manage some of those issues.
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:20:19
Thank you I mean depooling is a long conversation we've got a member briefing as you will be
where on the 8th of December for everyone will be taking everybody through the process
of what's happened. The pump stations are slightly different, they serve a small number
of properties, the de -pooling exercises largely looking at the service charge required for
all the blocks across all of the housing stock, whereas the pumping stations and the sewerage
works for the properties that aren't on main drains is a slightly different project and
won't be picked up as part of the de -pooling so we'll be handling that separately as part
this initial charge of work anyway.
But at the state of deep hooting project itself is looking at the service charges that should
be applied across all of our blocks.
And I'm happy to, it's a long conversation so I'm happy to have it outside of the meeting.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:21:09
Thank you.
Councillor Davison please.
Thanks chair.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:21:14
Thanks for the report.
You talked about you think there's going to be a funding gap in terms of the Renters Rights
Act being implemented and the funding that's been received.
So just be useful to understand what you think that gap might look like
and what the implications might be for renters in the district
or for the service in the round.
So obviously it's an important new piece of legislation.
I'm just wondering what work is taking place with partners around the two new Acts as well
and whether maybe you could just update
on whether there's been training for councillors
in terms of these or whether that might be something
that would be planned in terms of our own understanding
of those new obligations.
And then two other things,
the resident liaison officer role,
how does it work?
How can tenants contact that person?
I'm conscious it's one person across the whole district,
so I imagine that's quite challenging.
And then on the temporary accommodation,
if the funding is agreed,
how long do you think it will take
to bring the properties on stream,
and have you got places,
you know, locations in the district
where you're thinking of targeting
those additional properties?
And I think one thing we've discussed in the past
is in the temporary accommodation
that we do have access,
that tenants have residents
who are in those temporary accommodation units
to washing facilities, washing machines and so on.
I just wondered if there had been any progress
in relation to that.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:22:55
Yeah, quite a lot of questions there
and I will defer to Andy for quite a few of them.
I think in terms of...
I was concerned the chair would stop me
so I just wanted to get them all out.
I think in terms of the, just to address the funding, the New Burdens funding, I think
the impact I think will be felt by staff in having to do a lot of work.
But I'm sure, you know, there has been a lot of work already undertaken, a lot of work
in preparing for this new legislation.
so that is well underway regardless of having confirmation of the New Burdens funding, but
I think it just puts extra pressure on our General Fund, the HRA, it just puts pressure
on there and I don't think the New Burdens funding doesn't necessarily reflect the amount
that does need to be done,
but I am confident that that work will be done.
But yeah, it's probably not going
to be adequately compensated.
If I can hand over to Andy.
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:24:14
Yeah, I'll just add to that.
There are this is a lot of new obligations.
We don't really know how that is
going to affect the team already.
Private is largely the private sector
housing team that's going to be doing with this.
We have authorised the CLC another position already for a new officer to come into to that post
But we're going to be rewriting our enforcement policies and there's much more onus on
Enforcement rather than working through with landlords about how you might resolve an issue
Through awareness notices, hazard awareness notices and stuff like that rather than going straight to enforcement
Which the new sort of act is kind of suggesting that that is going to be going to be the approach
but this is going to start coming into effect from May next year, April, May next year,
with different parts of the Act introduced at the time.
But as I say, we're preempting that by introducing a new member of staff.
We think the early funding will just about fund that post.
We don't know what the funding for next year is going to be yet, but we think the funding
for this year is going to be around £40 ,000 to be used by the end of March this year.
And then we're going to go from there.
but the team have been on loads of seminars, training,
and they're a really, really competent team,
and they work very closely with all the landlords
in the district.
What we're hoping we don't see is a lot of landlords
leaving the market because of the new pressures on them,
which is gonna add to the housing problems
that obviously we're experiencing
with temporary accommodation, homelessness,
and everything else.
So we're working through it,
and we hope it's gonna be a good thing.
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:25:51
Right, TA funding was the next one I had.
I think I might have missed one so you might just have to remind me what that one was.
The £5 million worth of funding which is going to be agreed by Council tomorrow is
we are working through how we're going to use that now.
There's not a great deal on the market at the moment and all the 106 opportunities that
have been coming up in sort of the last 12 months,
we have kind of either purchased or in the process
of negotiating certain properties in certain areas
at the moment, which is our standard HRA pipeline
for people on the housing waiting list,
which is, as Rebecca alluded to earlier, equally,
we have to have that move on accommodation,
otherwise we can't get people out of temporary accommodation
There are a couple of developers we are talking to
at the moment to secure a number of apartments.
Some will be available within the next couple of months potentially, some slightly longer term, but again, going through planning at the moment will be available within the next 12 months.
And then also looking at a system of buybacks from old houses, council houses that have sold on the right to buy and what's on the market, what can we buy now to add to that stock.
But as part of that process as well as Rebecca said earlier
We're also looking at using some a small number of the HRA stock again to alleviate that pressure and temporary accommodation
That's that bit
Washing machines in TA temporary accommodation. This is not something we can do and this has been raised many times
Causing all sorts of problems in temporary accommodation people don't use them properly plumbing gets pulled out
causes leaks through properties and things like that so I'm afraid it's not within our
policy and it's not something we're going to change anytime soon because of the damage
that does happen in those properties if it is installed and it's not part of our policy
I'm afraid.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:27:48
I think there was another question wasn't there?
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:27:54
Yeah just on the last one I thought we were looking at maybe an alternative
and but maybe we can discuss that.
I can come back, I'm going to cheque with Tim and come back to you but I think
Thanks, it was just the resident liaison officer. How do residents contact them? How does it work?
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:28:12
I'm not actually sure how they, so it's Lauren isn't it? We've got two. We've got, oh this is the Mears one.
I would have to actually come back to you on that one so I don't know. So I'm afraid so, but we can come back and give an update.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:28:26
Okay, thank you.
Councillor Chapman.
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:28:35
Yeah, thanks for the report and to the team and all the staff that have worked to deliver
a lot of value for residents.
I know you do a lot with not enough, a lot of the time.
And I know that temporary accommodation is a massive chunk of money and it's something
I've been talking to a contact of mine at Homestar a lot about because a lot of the
people experiencing domestic abuse, domestic violence, are possibly looking at going into
temporary accommodation. A lot of them would like to find their own place, but one of the
limiting factors is local housing allowance and the fact that it's set at the rate that
and I was just wondering what difference,
you know, I'm speaking to our MP about this
and feeling bad that this is, you know,
basically trapping people in really difficult situations.
And I was just wondering what difference it would make
to the pressures on our housing situation
if that was to be better funded by central government
and what your thoughts were on that.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:29:48
Yeah, I mean I think it would make a huge difference.
It also has an impact on individuals trying to find accommodation.
It also has a huge impact on the amount of income we get for the HRA.
So the lower the local housing allowances, the less we can invest in our stock, the less
we can't use the money, there's no extra money for buying new homes.
So, and it's a discussion that's been ongoing for a long time.
But yeah, the rates have not been adequate.
They don't reflect reality and that has been raised with the MP.
So I think everyone's aware of it, but nothing seems to be happening.
Thank you, I'm not sure making any difference,
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:30:43
but I'll just keep doing my bit to lobby on that point.
I suggest we all do. Thank you.
Yeah, I think we all have to do that for sure.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:30:51
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:30:52
OK, thank you.
Why members, Councillor Jones.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:30:59
So I mean most of my questions that I had have been answered already,
but the question I had was about the Rainbow centres all year round hostel,
which is looking to be a really promising thing to have in our district.
My question is what are we doing as a council to support that project financially
and obviously with officer support as well,
because I think it's going to be really beneficial
to hopefully improving the situation around homelessness.
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:31:28
I'll have to come back with my vote on that.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:31:34
Okay, no more questions.
So thank you very much for that report and we look forward to hearing the updates that
you're going to make.

6 Otterpool Park LLP Transition Plan and Budget 2026-27

So we move on to item 6, Otterpool Park LLP Business Plan and Transition Budget.
Jim Martin, leader of the council and cabinet member for Otterpool Park and Planning Policy
will introduce the item but also present is Paula Hurst, independent chair of the Otterpool
Park LLP board who I'm sure will have their own inputs. Thank you Councillor.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:32:12
Thank you very much Chair. Good evening Members. Yeah so where are we with Otterfall Park?
There's an awful lot to say. I won't do my normal tidal wave of information and data
on you. But my primary reason for being here this evening is to introduce the chair of
Otterpool Park LLP, Paula Hurst. But please do ask as many questions as you can because
there is a lot to say and I'm here to be teased out as it were. I don't want to wax lyrically
about something that you're not remotely interested in,
I want to answer your question,
but suffice to say there's a lot going on.
Thank you. Oh, sorry, and I'd like to introduce...
Great introduction, Jim,
the chair of Otterfield Park LLP, Paula Hurst.
Thank you.
Thanks, Jim.
Microphone A - 0:33:22
So, good evening, everyone, and it's good to see you again.
You all have read in the report
about the culmination of activities that's been undertaken over the last year with Homes England
as part of the collaboration agreement that the Council has with Homes England
and have read that we are now in a process of looking at the next stage of discussions with Homes England.
A few things I think to highlight to you is that we are in a demonstrably different position than we were a year ago.
What is I think very positive is the recognition within Homes England that there is market
failure in delivery of this scheme as it currently stands and that government support will be
needed in order to be able to address that market failure so that we can bring the sites
into delivery.
To do that, a funding case, a business case will need to be developed in order to be able
to set out the funding required and really underpin that,
set out the different aspects of why that couldn't come forward
by itself.
The work that's all been undertaken over the last year,
ranging from detailed financial modelling
to testing a variety of different scenarios,
provides the evidence needed to underpin that business case.
So it's not starting.
this isn't a new thing that's starting.
There's lots of information that has been tested and tested and tested
to get us to a point where that case can now be developed.
So that's really positive.
In order to get to a market -facing scheme,
we also need to be able to lock in the decision around the planning application,
and that is a key focus of work over the course of the next year for the team,
is progressing so that we can move from resolution to grant status to outline a planning consent.
And that's really important because unless and until we get that,
it will be very difficult to move forward into any form of market delivery.
The third thing I wanted to say was that as a result of the progress over the last year
and where we are in looking at things moving forward.
We've looked and made some changes to the team at Otterpool.
Last year, of course, Gary Ridgewell was at this meeting.
Gary has provided some excellent input from his background,
as in private development, into the discussions
in particular around the financial model
for the development and has now moved on.
And I'm really pleased that Eughan has taken over oversight
of the team and we have made sure that the resources within the team are appropriate
for the activity that's likely to take place over the next year. So happy to answer any
questions alongside the team and Ewan I don't know if there's anything you wanted to add?
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:36:40
OK, thank you so much. So I'll open it up to members if they have any questions.
Councillor Holgate.
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:36:52
I'll start again. One major question I just had was around the full planning approval
deadline on the 31st of December 2026.
I was just curious about the major risks attached there and if they are being actively mitigated.
There was no real risk profile on the report.
I'm sure there's pages and pages of risk analysis.
So I'm just kind of curious how actively are we mitigating those risks given that deadline next year.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:37:23
Yes, it's a date, I'd say it's been plucked out of the air.
So this is a negotiation with KCC essentially to agree the 106.
Now effectively we could agree the 106 next week if we were prepared to pay them all the
that they want, which is an enormous amount of money.
Now, what we now have with...
Homes England is they have a national database
and access to costs,
106, costs, etc, payments elsewhere,
that they can produce in these arguments,
which are giving KCC a little more difficulty in arguing.
When they were just dealing with us, they're a lot bigger than us,
they could kick us around a bit.
Now they're finding that a little bit more difficult.
It's just a negotiation.
So we effectively...
we're able to conclude that and get outline planning
whenever we want, it's just how much we would be prepared to pay.
The problem always was for us,
is that if we had obtained outline planning,
and as Paula said, the status of the site moved from resolution to grant
to outline planning, that would trigger all of the option agreements
to be paid within one year, which is an enormous amount of money.
So, effectively, we couldn't take that step until we could...
that we were sure that we had the money to buy those options.
So, it's...
I completely agree with you, Councillor Holgate,
There is risk attached, but I see it as being the other way round, really.
It's a risk that we can easily mitigate.
It just would cost more money.
So that's the period of time that we've set out for those negotiations.
I hope that's helpful.
Microphone A - 0:40:01
I suppose to add to that, and it's a long -stop date,
It's not the desired date.
The desired date would be to get this resolved as quickly as possible.
I think at this point in time we're very aware of what the key issues are.
The work that we're talked about over the course of the last year
has looked at testing a number of different scenarios
in order to have a robust position for discussion with Kent County Council.
In my view, the quicker we can get there, the better, right?
which is also why we've kind of reorientated our resources accordingly
to focus on this particular issue
and the Collaboration Agreement focuses indeed on this issue specifically.
Perhaps Ewan, you can talk about how we're managing
some of the risks associated with that.
Mr Ewan Green - 0:40:50
Yeah, thank you.
I think I guess the risk you're talking about
is how do we get information back into planning
and then through the process.
The first part of that is getting the resources in place and think of the planning agreement
that's part of the pack.
That outlines the work plan for that and there's adequate budget and notical budget to do that
with the resource appropriately as Paul has said within the team but also we are retaining
the consultant teams as well that have in -depth knowledge of the whole project to make sure
that we had a pretty tight target of aiming to release the submission of further information
back into the local planning authorities, so the LPA, by March. And I guess the second
part of this is all about working with Homes England on the planning agreement and they
bring a whole range of skills and expertise to the table for this which adds to our, I
means that we're jointly progressing this together.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:41:59
Councillor Davidson.
Thanks, Chair.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:42:04
Thanks for the report.
There's just a question on the budget.
It's quite difficult for us to scrutinise the budget in any detail, I think, because
we've only got a very high level summary here, so I don't know if there's further information
that can be shared or how that's broken down.
My question was around...
Previously there have been community events and activities
that have taken place around the Otterpool project,
the festival and other things.
Are there plans for those kind of things to happen under this budget?
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:42:41
Thank you very much, Councillor Davidson.
You can blame the cancelation of all festivals and community events on me
unfortunately. We were in a position where we had to stop stuff
before we could start again.
Now, we are in quite a critical period at the moment,
and two or three things have to happen,
but I'm confident that all of that kind of outreach
and promotion of Otopel can begin again.
I can't promise you right now, but it will be something that we all want to do.
I just need to get through the next few months before I could set a timetable out for that.
With regard to the budget, it is very high level
and there's significant amounts of money required to deliver it,
far beyond the reach of this council.
Hence, this collaboration agreement that we're about to enter
is called a Planning Collaboration Agreement
for the reason, in answer to the question by Councillor Holgate,
in that the focus is to deliver that element of planning.
But there are two other elements
in terms of Holmes England's written involvement,
or written confirmation of their involvement.
First is about land acquisitions, which I won't go into in some detail,
but they've made a commitment in terms of acquiring some land,
which is good news for us.
The second one is a commitment in terms of delivering
the outline planning application.
And then the third one, where your question probably fits in most lightly,
the third element is about imagining otopole.
So they want us to not rethink it,
but it's been some time since we granted planning permission
and it was some time before that the design work was done.
So they want us to turn our minds to just imagining Otypal
in terms of what is this garden town going to look like.
And I think really that's where your question about festivals, promotion,
and the community outreach really fits in, because I would very much...
Sorry, just in saying that, we've continued with the parish,
we have the meetings of the five parishes which have continued throughout.
But we would like to reach out to the wider community
and do consultation events in Selinj, in Liminj, in New Church,
in everywhere that's affected by this.
We just haven't been able to do anything like that
because we wouldn't exactly know what we were talking about.
So the answer is yes, I can't tell you exactly when.
Microphone A - 0:46:25
No, I don't think so. I think you've covered it. But in terms of the question around the
budget. Alan, do you want to respond to that?
Mr Alan Mitchell - 0:46:37
Yeah, thank you for you, Chair. So yeah, I'm happy we can circulate some greater detail
on that and just give some clarity in terms of the sort of things that we're going to
to those settings.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:46:49
Thank you.
Councillor Alan Martin.
Thank you Chair.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:46:55
So clearly lots of great work to get Homes England on board I guess which was by no means
a mean feat by the sound of it.
But the project isn't viable until we secure the funding to enable us to get the project
in a state that we can get private developers interested.
Cognizant of the fact that we're not currently on the government's radar when they talk about
new towns and so on.
So I'd just be keen for a bit more colour around, I guess, Home's England are committed
to working with us in this next phase, but how confident are they that we will secure
of that funding and the extent to which the business case stacks up?
And has there been any conversation around areas
where there's still an element of doubt,
or at least what the risks are in terms of us not getting that funding?
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:47:58
Yeah, I mean, you know, Home England funding is something like
trying to catch smoke in a mirror, you know, we all know it's there,
we just can't, you know... So, yeah...
The...
So we went through this six -month collaboration agreement,
which they wanted to extend to nine months, which we did.
And they turned over every rock, they looked at every spreadsheet,
they reworked every...
They had comments on the design, they had...
And, you know, largely, hugely positive.
They had a few things about tightening density here and there,
but if it was wrong they wouldn't be going forward.
So the big change that is happening at the moment
is that the volume, 8 ,500 homes,
which is probably why we didn't get on the new task force report.
Because while we've always talked about 10 ,000,
the resolution to grants is 8 ,500, so we don't know.
But the Homes England's appetite for it is significant.
They've got a full team working on this.
we meet regularly in terms of Tier 1, Tier 2 and Tier 3.
All of the signals are there.
They recently, or relatively recently, appointed a new chairperson,
or new chief executive, I should say.
It is she who has written to us, setting out their plan.
Just in case I got it wrong, Susan will correct me if I'm wrong,
in that letter she said, we're all in.
So I'm taking that as a 100 % commitment from Holmes England.
They've appointed a specialist on their team
who deals only with land acquisition.
As I say, they're bringing all of this data that we don't know about
in terms of reconciling the 106 with KCC.
And, you know, Homes England are very, very difficult to predict.
But if they didn't think it worked...
Sorry, just to explain the point.
What their six -month collaboration agreement showed
was that there was market failure,
i .e. the scheme needed an injection of public money.
And the fact that they want to enter a second collaboration agreement with us
indicates that this case has been proved internally.
So we will be...
Now, how that happens, how it comes about and quite how much
will depend on a lot of negotiations, a lot of discussions going forward.
But, you know...
I forget... What's her name?
Sorry, Amy.
Her letter to us was about land acquisitions, hallelujah,
about joining with us in agreeing the 106
and achieving outline planning permission, again, hallelujah.
and three, which is about looking at OSPL
and updating our ideas, our concepts.
So, I'd love to be able to promise you,
but I can't because Homes England, they're a government agency,
so they do blow with the wind.
But in terms of the officers, the chief executive,
we've had huge support from our local MPs.
Sojain Joseph has been flippant fantastic on this.
Tony Bourn has been terrific.
We feel we've got two really strong advocates here in terms of the whole concept.
I can't look at a weak link in that chain at the moment.
So I can't promise you, Alan, but I am more confident than I've ever been
that it is deliverable.
Thank you for that.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:52:49
Do we have a list of what we think the biggest potential headwinds are
or risks against us getting this funding?
Are there specific things that concern us
or is it generally that fear of not knowing when you ask for money
whether the wind's blowing in the right direction?
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:53:15
All I can do is just judge their actions.
I can't say too much specifically about it,
but we are looking at a fast delivery site.
What the government, and I'm talking about the Minister for Housing here,
Matthew Pennycook, who's been in contact over Otipaw, wants,
because not only the volume, he wants speed.
He wants to do a high -vis, hard hat, photo opportunity before the next election.
So all I can tell you is that we are currently involved with Homes England
in terms of an offer's been made on an early delivery site.
So I take that as a hugely positive indication of where we are.
And importantly, it's within their own delegations.
So Holmes England can elect...
They don't have to go to Treasury or they don't have to go anywhere else.
So I see that as a hugely positive indication
and their commitment to making Ot
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:54:21
Microphone A - 0:54:23
Did you want to say anything?
Yes, I'll do a couple of things.
Firstly, in response to Councillor Martin,
to your earlier question as well,
we're at this point partly because of the result
of not just the work of the LLP but also the Council,
in particular Susan Priest,
so thank you Susan for helping us get to this point.
I think there's been a lot of tough conversations that have happened.
So it's good we're at this point.
I think also just to reinforce, we are now in a position that we were not a year ago.
The risk is substantially diminished in terms of our ability to get funding
because we have Homes England buying to it.
The sort of testing that took place on the financial model and the scheme
was really important for them to be able to advocate it into MHCLG and indeed the Treasury,
which will be the next stage. There are of course risks associated with this, like whether
we'll get the money, and the main one of that is how we compare against other schemes around
the country and the size of the overall funding pot. So the work that the local MPs do and
the work that the leader's doing to continue to effectively influence that decision -making
is really important in that regard.
Also, but that said, although we were not one of the communities named on the Newtown's
task force recommendations and indeed the government is now considering whether to take
those forward or not.
We have been told that the garden communities
programme continues.
It remains a priority of both Homes England and MHCLG, which
is really reassuring.
Otterpool Park is one of the priority garden communities.
So again, we are up on the agenda
and as part of the business plan for Homes England.
So this all gives additional confidence
that we are in the right place.
I think the other thing that puts us in a good place
is that some of these issues are not just about the viability of the scheme
in its entirety, but issues around timing and phasing.
So the challenge that we have, as with all sides of this scale and nature,
is that the strategic infrastructure investment that's required up front
can only be recouped over years, decades,
through the sale of sites and homes as they come forward.
Now that makes it difficult for a private party
to be able to take on the site at this point in time.
However, what that means is that there is opportunity later on
for some of this money to be recouped back
and that puts us in a stronger position than say other schemes
whereby they are looking for funding
which is, their schemes are in a less viable situation as it were.
So that's part of the work that's been taken forward
and we need to continue to keep up that influence and lobbying, I would suggest,
to make sure that we stay on the agenda with the right people.
And that's why making sure that we progress with this work together with Holmes England
at pace is really important.
I don't know if there's anything you wanted to add, Sarah?
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:57:56
Okay, thank you.
Councillor Jones.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:58:01
I just wanted to ask about how local government reorganisation is going to affect this because
obviously looking at the timetable of that and of this project, how's that going to affect
the officers that we've got involved in it?
How is it going to affect, obviously we've put a lot of money into it, what are our residents
going to gain from that or is that going to be spread out?
There's got to be a lot of concerns about that because obviously this has been bubbling
for years.
I can't remember how many years, a long time, it's on the report isn't it?
So people have been looking forward to the rewards of that so how do we make sure that
that funding comes back into this area and not spread about whatever our unitary will
be that we end up with?
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:58:49
Yes, that's a concern that's very, very high on our agenda.
Every time. In a larger unitary what we don't want is the benefits
from Otipol being used to regenerate another part of Kent.
That's why 4D didn't work for us, because it divided...
Everyone in Folkestone that's been contributing to Otterpool over the years
would have had no chance of any kind of recovery from it at all.
So we'll have to see where we end up
with regard to local government reorganisation.
But if we assume that it's a 4B or a 3A or whatever,
whatever one it is, anything but 4D,
then we will be arguing very, very strongly
that those benefits are ring -faced.
It's going to be a difficult...
It will test our chief executive skill,
But that is the position that we will adopt.
As soon as the unitary is...
Once we do these joint committees etc, etc,
we will be talking about Otterpool and ring fencing the benefits
for the immediate community,
and by that I mean the folks in the hive community.
So all the way down onto the marsh.
It's all included.
It's still a big field, it's still on paper.
As we see Otterpool happening,
and certainly I won't see it completed,
But the people who occupy these seats will have their own kind of imagination around Otopul.
So that may change in terms of what we would list the benefits to be,
what we perceive and what future perception is, I can't say.
But for now it's really got to be about trying to ring -fence that money.
and that's where we go into the negotiations.
It is top of our agenda.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:01:35
Thank you and we'll move on to Councillor Thomas please.
Yes, thank you chair.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:01:42
I just want to come back to a point that Councillor Davidson raised about scrutinising the budgets
in section 3 .6 and 3 .7 of the report where we look at the tier 1, tier 2 and tier 3 work
streams.
It would be useful to have had the same kind of breakdown that we've had in Section 4,
which shows for that budget, these are the individual elements that make up that budget.
So I think from a scrutiny point of view, it would be handy for us to see that outside
of here so that we can judge for ourselves.
But also, I just wanted to ask, was that all external spend or does that include the internal
resources associated with delivering those work streams.
And my second question will be for Jim.
So we've talked about timeline, and we've
talked about interactions and the interdependencies
between some of these things that
need to happen going forward.
So we talked about why won't we put the outline planning
in at the moment and the impact that that has.
It'd be nice to see that in some kind of pictorial form
in an easy to read thing.
so it allows us then to go and brief our councils and our residents
on what's happening and why things are happening the way they are.
So that's my two questions, thank you.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:03:02
Well, perhaps I'll answer the easy one first
and then maybe go back to Alan on the cost question, if that's okay.
So, yeah, I completely agree.
There are some really difficult concepts
in terms of phasing timelines, etc.
But in simple terms,
Otterpool has always been profitable.
The problem is the amount of money that you need to spend
before you can start building homes.
So if you want a list of...
26 million for the waste water treatment plant,
£11 million on a station, there's roads,
it's a monster amount of money that has to go in
before you can really start to build homes.
So that's what the developers call their lock -up.
They have to spend this money before they start releasing any profit.
And the graph does this.
So that is where we need the public intervention,
that's where we need Homes England's money to come in
and help us with that lock -up, bring it up.
They have gone through their own internal cycles with regard to...
They've talked about buying slithers of this and corridors through that,
I knew that they've moved away from that completely, thank God.
And they seem to have taken this kind of all -in approach,
which we're very, very grateful for.
So maybe if I can go to Alan now.
Oh, sorry.
Sorry, Ewan.
Mr Ewan Green - 1:04:56
Thank you, Chairman. I'll probably get some of the detail.
Thank you, members.
Points very well made about the presentation of the budget
and perhaps not enough detail which we can take on board and we certainly can commit
to coming back to you after this with more detail.
But I think in relation to the point about internal and external spend, the table in
4 .4 which is the budget if you like that is going forward to cabinet, a similar report
just will go forward to cabinet on 10 December for cabinet approval to recommend this budget
into the council budget setting process.
If you see on the first line, planning and project management, just 1 .1 million, that
is mainly focused on external spend.
Consultant team specialists required to, in effect, bring forward the updated submission
on the outline plan application and some other technical work in relation to the site.
The other significant spend there, 1 .1 million on salaries, governance and overheads, is
the internal spend either in the article team itself or in terms of our estate management,
for example, business rates recharges to the council. So that's the split of, in terms
of the overall £2 .8 million budget, the first line, planning project management, is mainly
focused on external, the salaries, governance and overhead is the main internal spend. I
hope that picks up your point.
Yes, thank you very much.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:06:26
The question in 3 .7, it talks about the planning collaboration agreement including planning
for early housing delivery, the cost associated with that estimated at £2 .3 million.
And in 3 .6, we talk about Tier 1, this is what we're going to do, Tier 2, this is what
we're going to do, Tier 3.
So the £2 .3 million is not included in the £2 .8 million as in Section 4.
That's correct isn't it?
So if I may, so the second collaboration agreement is obviously due to commence
shortly so November so the phasing in terms of the budget both the period up to the end of December 26th
yeah it's split over two financial years so part of it is going to be incurred in this financial year
part of it is going to be incurred in the next round of two.
The 2 .8 million relates solely to next year.
So some of the costs are going to be incurred this year,
some of the costs are going to be incurred
in the next round of two year,
and that's the budget paper in the paragraph 4 .4.
So in terms of the actual 2 .3 and 30,
I'd like to thank you and the architect
for questioning incredibly well.
So I don't think I need to come to future meetings
so you can handle that perfectly.
Absolutely.
But yeah, no, absolutely right.
So in terms of 2 .3 minutes, that's the specific amount
that's allocated to that early release of home,
that element there.
But what we can definitely do is come back
and give some more detail and more clarity
on both the overall position
and also how that's built into the two profiles.
Yes, that'd be very helpful.
Mr Alan Mitchell - 1:08:01
Actually, again, it helps us in terms of
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:08:04
what we can then ask informed questions on
when we have the information.
So thank you very much for that.
Okay, thank you.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:08:10
Councillor Holgate.
Cllr Rich Holgate - 1:08:12
Thank you. I think just two quick questions.
One was around Westminster planning reform.
I think the answer will be we don't know yet, but nonetheless,
I was just curious whether we do have any insight
as to what impact planning reform will have on Otterpool,
maybe as a general view.
And secondly, in appendix two, I know it's a working draught,
but it talks a lot about an early parcel,
and an early parcel of about 500 homes that won't require major infrastructure.
So 500 homes will impact nearby villages and I was curious therefore,
do we know where that early parcel may be, if that has been decided yet or thoughts?
And obviously without major infrastructure, what would the implications be there for on local schools, traffic, infrastructure?
And it's, yeah, thank you.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:09:09
Llywelyn Lloyd - 1:09:13
Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillor Holgate. Good evening, Councillors. I'll do my best.
In respect of infrastructure reform and the planning bills, I don't think we'll have a
huge implication on ottables of planning application. A lot of that's really factored in. We're
already dealing with nutrient neutrality. If anything, if it mitigates me of that, that
might make things better, but we have a solution in place for most of that. I think we're also
of what might happen under LGR in terms of if there is a Section 106 and when there is
a Section 106, where and who the other authorities and signing parties are, because we'll have
to have mind to the current county, and we might have to have mind to writing it in a
way that allows it to work for any other authority that exists in the future, and many of my
colleagues across the country are already doing that and discussing it through DCN networks.
In terms of the 500 homes, I think that's something I think the applicants are mulling
to try and get the development going.
What I would say is the Planning Authority has not settled and the applicant hasn't formally
submitted anything as to where that might go.
I believe the applicant is looking at their own holdings as to where that could come forward
quickly.
The key point is we've, as I understand the figures, there are two peak debt curves because
of the infrastructure as Councillor Martin has already indicated and we need to get housing
sales quickly.
From a planning point of view that's quite crucial because our 5 year housing land supply
is quite low and the faster we can get houses out of the ground the quicker we can start
ensuring that our development plan protects the most sensitive parts of our district and
national landscapes.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:10:48
Just to add a bit, so in terms of is the site identified, there are a number of opportunities
I think the last time we...
this time last year when we came here we were talking about Woodlands Ridge.
Gary was a big Woodlands Ridge fan.
But there are other sites that could accommodate this.
But it wouldn't be done in isolation.
The reason why we can do this is that there is some capacity
in the existing sewerage system.
Everything I seem to do revolves around sewerage, I'm not entirely sure why.
But the existing sewerage system can take theoretically a few hundred additional homes.
so ahead of the wastewater treatment plant being built.
Now, we've never really embraced this as an idea
because in effect it's double work
because they ultimately have to get connected to the wastewater treatment plant.
So, but Holmes England really liked this idea
because what it does, it allows early delivery.
So that's why we're pursuing that at the moment.
Whether or not it happens, I will be a super cheerleader for it if it can,
but there are some hurdles to it.
The kind of buy the land, build the waste water treatment plant,
get your infrastructure in place and then build your houses,
that's the right way to do it.
What Homes England are trying to do is on these few hundred
to shortcut that service just to get some early delivery.
And I applaud them for it.
Cllr Rich Holgate - 1:13:00
I think that's what perhaps I'm cautious or nervous about,
because we have capacity in our sewerage,
we don't have capacity on our roads,
in terms of, especially in the villages and more rural areas of the district,
where we're at Osborne and around GPs,
and I think, great, we have capacity in Sewerage,
we don't necessarily have the same capacity in other aspects of infrastructure.
I think 500 homes, up to 500 homes,
is maybe up to 2 ,000 people in those areas.
I suppose I get the benefit of speed,
but there comes a trade -off and a consequence of that on our residents.
That's what makes me nervous.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:13:39
Yes, and you're right to be nervous.
You wouldn't be representing people if you weren't.
The first thing that we have to do is build a road.
If I had the plan, I'd show you.
So the road is essential.
And there's a lot of details that follow on.
Interestingly, around the schools,
Depending on where parents send their children to surrounding schools,
there's some capacity in the schools.
You couldn't build a thousand.
In reality you couldn't build 500, but you could probably build 200, 250,
without really putting a strain on anything.
GPs, it's a different question.
But schools, there's some scope.
Ultimately, there are seven schools planned at Ospel,
so you can't go much further without building a school.
This is what the 106 with KCC is all about.
So everything is in place.
This early delivery gives us other problems,
but the idea is to get it up and running and away.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:15:06
Because once they start, it will all start to flow from there.
Thank you.
Microphone A - 1:15:09
If I just add a couple of things.
Just to say, this is exactly why this is a key part of the workstream over the next year,
is to look at what the options are, both in terms of location, in terms of number of homes.
I suppose just to reassure you that as a board we will be looking at those quite carefully
because we would not want to be in a position where we're putting forward an application
where we are aware that the infrastructure is insufficient to meet the needs of the new
residents and indeed existing residents.
There is a clear process which is the workstream gets followed and it will come for review
and indeed the point at which I'm pretty sure colleagues in the local planning authority
will be reviewing any proposal to ensure that the relevant infrastructure is sufficient
for both new and existing residents.
So that's exactly why we've got this as a workstream over the course of the next year.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:16:11
Thank you.
So I'm going to allow one more question and then we're moving on to the next item.
So Councillor Hills.
Thank you.
Councillor Tony Hills - 1:16:20
Thank you, Chair.
I have a lot of sympathy.
In the time I've been around, this was set up about 2020,
around there, but it was going before then.
In the last five or seven years, this has been kicked around.
At the very early meetings, it was really heartening
that it would be led by actual research,
stuff going in first, like surgeries,
schools, and then the housing would fill that in.
And we knew, I knew, that it was not likely to be such an easy answer.
And you have a very difficult situation.
You've been on the back of a tiger here, and you can't get off.
It's down to money.
Massive investment, which is beyond the ability sometimes of this council.
But, it's not only the council, it's just the fact of life.
But particularly when it comes down to water treatment,
with the nutrient neutrality coming in as well.
The stale catchment.
It's another area of concerns and problems to solve.
I just want to say, I do think, as Councillor Holgate's alluded to,
that the local government organisation is going to have a massive impact on this.
We won't know till next summer what's going to be happening.
and then you'll be in a happy situation for trying to make that work
and how to negotiate this because it will be a duel worth going for.
But we trade it for other things.
But what I'm trying to say really is, Jim, is that I have my sympathy.
And I hope, Paula, it's a big success for your sake as well.
And a lot of work's gone into this.
I hate to think how much money this council has invested in this project over the years,
but it must be phenomenal.
I don't want to see the things written down, it would scare me.
But all I want to say really is that I'm not an expert in sea air,
but I've been around the fringes.
I just wish you well and success on this for all our sakes.
I'm trying to stay positive.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:18:32
Thank you very much, Councillor.
Just to... You're absolutely right.
The East Stour will be a cleaner river because of this,
the wastewater treatment plant, has a cleansing effect on it.
In terms of a sub -regional scheme,
both Ashford and Canterbury are hugely encouraging of us
because of, you know, bizarrely, many of you,
there's these wastewater credits which can be traded.
and the idea is that the wastewater credits that Otipool generate,
we will loan to Canterbury and Ashford,
because they are completely stuffed with their development pipeline.
Until they bring their wetlands,
they've got a programme of wetland creation
in order to try and address their neutrality issues.
So in terms of a kind of a sub -regional scheme,
it's very important not only to us but to our neighbours
because exactly as you said, it's impact on the East Tower.
So we're in the hands of the kind of scientists and engineers there.
But thank you.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:20:02
So the recommendations are to receive a note report OS 2507
to provide feedback to the leader,
cabinet member for Otterpool Park and planning policy
and corporate leadership team in order to shape
the future activities relating to Otterpool.
I need a proposer please.
Thank you, Councillor Chapman and a seconder.
Thank you, Councillor Hills and let's vote on it.
Thank you very much.

7 2025 Housing Tenant Satisfaction Survey Results

So we'll move on to item seven, 2025 housing plan.
housing tenant satisfaction survey results.
Mike Bailey, tenant engagement and independent living manager will introduce the item please.
FHDC Officer - 1:20:42
Thank you very much.
Good evening everybody.
Just by way of a background, just to reiterate that since 2023 the regulator of social housing
has required all social landlords such as ourselves to carry out an annual tenant satisfaction
Measures Survey which I'll call TSM's for brevity from here on in.
The wording of the questions is prescribed by the regulator.
We're not allowed to change the wording but we are allowed to include supplementary questions.
So for that reason we always choose to include some free text boxes to try and understand
why tenants are or aren't satisfied to help us understand the results in a bit more detail
and help us work on developing an action plan each year and I'll come back to that concept
in a moment.
The regulator sets a minimum number of responses that they expect each landlord to achieve
and that's based on the number of properties each landlord has.
For ourselves, the minimum is 514 and you'll see in the report that we've exceeded that
considerably this year.
We got 692.
Our survey provider in -house research topped up the postal and online responses we received
with some telephone surveys to ensure that the results were representative by tenant age,
type of property, i .e. whether it's independent living or general needs,
property type house bungalow and the age of the property. So we're quite confident the data is robust and
representative of the wider tenant population.
The key message to make is that this year's results are extremely positive.
Satisfaction has gone up across all 12 TSM's compared to last year.
And it's very reassuring that from a housing management point of view,
the results haven't told us anything we didn't already know.
Instead, they've seeked to confirm what we already knew to be the case
based on feedback we've received in previous years.
Consistently the case, not just with ourselves but with other social landlords
and it has been for many years across the housing sector.
The biggest drivers of satisfaction are repairs and communication
and that's what we intend to focus on in our action plan.
We've already started working on the action plan and based on the comments and the feedback
we received in the survey, the main objectives we've identified so far are that we need to
increase awareness of repair time scales, prioritise the improvement works and inform
our improvement programmes on stock condition data and Councillor Shub spoke earlier about
the stock condition surveyor purpose that we now have.
Working to encourage more younger tenants to get involved in working with us to improve the housing service.
Increasing awareness of what is or what isn't classed as a complaint.
Increasing awareness of how we use learning from the complaints we receive to improve the services we provide.
Increasing awareness of the grounds maintenance services that the housing team is responsible for.
And increasing awareness of successful outcomes in anti -social behaviour case handling.
and officers will be discussing that with our strategic tenant advisory panel, STAP,
on the 9th of December at their meeting, but we also very much welcome feedback from you
as a committee on any other areas you think should be included in the action plan.
The two figures that will stand out, no doubt most to you, will be around complaints and
antisocial behaviour, and I think it's only fair to explain those in a bit more detail.
Now our score of 36 .4 % for complaint handling does look low, but that compares very favourably
with other landlords and that and the antisocial behaviour are always the two lowest scoring
measures across the whole housing sector.
Part of the issue with complaints is that tenants don't appear to understand what's
meant by the term complaint.
The way the regulator makes us do the survey, we have to ask a preceding question, have
Have you made a complaint to your housing service in the last 12 months?"
And if they say yes, they're asked how satisfied they are.
However, 165 tenants answered that question to say they'd made a complaint.
As a landlord, we only received 55 complaints last year.
And analysis of the comments makes it quite clear that where people are referring in their
comments to, I've complained about antisocial behaviour from my neighbour, they're thinking
that's making a complaint.
And of course to us, the landlord, it isn't.
That's us dealing with a part of our general landlord business.
So I think it very much comes back to enhancing that awareness and making tenants aware of
how we can help them, how we can support them.
And also lobbying the regulator of social housing to see if they'll let us change the
wording slightly to help tenants understand the question a bit more.
And finally, on the anti -social behaviour point, there isn't a don't know option on
that question.
and the regulator makes us ask that question of everybody.
So we have quite a large proportion, nearly a quarter,
who say, don't know, neither satisfied nor dissatisfied,
because they've never reported or experienced antisocial behaviour,
so they haven't got any basis to form an opinion.
So that's another one where we will try to encourage the regulator
to allow us to tweak the survey wording slightly.
Those are the key points I wanted to make.
Thank you very much. I'm happy to take any questions.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:26:10
Thank you.
Members, any questions?
Yes, Councillor Thomas.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:26:20
Overall satisfaction, 76 .4%,
and an increasing trend as well.
I think that's great in terms of how satisfied people are
with what's being provided.
There's great credit to the team here at Ferguson and Hive.
and again it's recognised by the people who enjoy that service.
20 .5 % response rate.
You might look at that and say,
80 % haven't said anything, so they must be happy, mustn't they?
I don't know.
I've got a couple of questions, if I may,
just in terms of...
One's a comment, really.
In section 4 .2 of the report, to do with those with disability,
Again, I'll focus on TP09 associated with complaints.
You know, 29 % of those with disability said they were very or fairly satisfied.
And I don't see any analysis of that to understand why that is as low as it is for TP09.
and on the same theme if I may,
in the full report you very kindly provide us
with all the detailed information
that sits behind the paper you put together,
I have this question,
so do we analyse complaints by property type,
as in flats, houses, bungalows and masonettes,
and then the rider to that as well then is,
do we analyse complaints by individual building
to establish common cause issues
because, again, how many of those overall complaints
are actually coming from the same source?
It's difficult for us to understand
whether this is a big issue in a particular area
or whether it's actually coming from a single source.
You can't tell that from the data.
I just wonder whether it'd be possible to break some of those things down
so that we can then look at that
and then understand what needs to be put into the action plan
to address some of those issues,
particularly some of those may well relate to the other issue
about antisocial behaviour.
One of the questions about, do you feel safe in your immediate environment?
I think all those, I believe, could potentially be interconnected.
Thank you.
Thank you, Councillor Thomas.
FHDC Officer - 1:28:41
On the first point around satisfaction with complaint handling
for people who report that they've got a disability,
I agree 29 % is on the low side.
As I say, satisfaction with complaint handling across the whole tenant population is only
36 % itself.
There is certainly nothing in any of the comments to indicate any reason why that might be.
One thing we have done over the last few months back in July, Cabinet approved a new housing
fair access policy and we are working at the moment to promote that to tenants and make
them aware of the adjustments we can make if they need any help in accessing our services
in making a complaint in dealing with us.
So we're trying to raise awareness of that at the moment as well.
Hopefully that will increase satisfaction in that area.
And on the second point, we don't routinely analyse complaints
by whether it's a flat maisonette or an individual building,
but that's certainly something we can do.
We've got a dedicated complaints team who deal with all of that for us,
and I will take that back and ask him to look at that for us.
And we are also feeding back to all the tenants
on learning from complaints in our January newsletter.
I wrote the content for that yesterday.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:29:53
Thank you. Excellent.
Councillor Hills.
Councillor Tony Hills - 1:29:58
Thank you, Chair.
Obviously it's very promising.
It's positive stuff going forward. That's always good news.
I was intrigued on the geography side
of how come my ward...
And yours, but you're better off.
But my ward, which is quite rural,
like Warren Ginch Marsh next door,
is so low down the figures.
So is this an urban versus rural problem?
Or is it simply in numbers you don't have anybody out there,
oddly, compared with inner city areas or urban areas?
Thank you, Councillor Hayles.
FHDC Officer - 1:30:41
It's certainly not to do with numbers.
we've got plenty of tenants down in your area.
It's a historic perception I think.
All of our tenants receive the same consistent service regarding which part of the district
they live in.
We provide the same level of service to all of our tenants.
It's based on a historic perception and I know as members you will have heard this yourselves
many a time in the past.
There is a perception among tenants that all of the council's money gets invested in the
urban areas rather than the rural.
And I think it is important to emphasise this is a perception survey.
This is based on tenants' own perceptions rather than what we feel may be the case.
So, no, just to reassure you, there is absolutely no evidence or comments to back up that tenants
in the rural areas receive a lesser service.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:31:34
Thank you.
Councillor Holgate.
Cllr Rich Holgate - 1:31:39
I'll just finish my questions but I do have three, two, maybe a third.
The 20 % engagement I think was picked up and I was just curious more directly what could
we do more to increase that?
Actually that's the second part.
Going back a step is how is that 20 % trended over time year on year?
Is 20 % better or worse than previous years?
And then following that what could we do to do more?
because cynically speaking it does feel very low.
Second question I had was around MERS,
just referencing maybe Councillor Sheebe's earlier cabinet report
which talked about improved service with MERS.
This report talks to concerns over poor materials and the concern
over the work of MERS.
So it's a bit of a reverse question but I suppose were,
are we happy that our new service agreement
with MERS addresses those tenant concerns?
perhaps the information didn't come in the right way round.
And thirdly, looking at the data, and maybe I misinterpreted it as a term if I'm wrong,
but it does look like the youngest demographics are the least satisfied.
Are we concerned about what impact that will have on length of tendency and duration
of our residents in that demographic, because it would suggest that if they're unhappy now
they're going to be unhappy for a while and therefore the trends will be less positive
than they are now, which is ultimately.
So I said two questions, I think I ended up at about seven.
But yeah, thank you.
FHDC Officer - 1:33:14
Thank you Councillor Holgate.
I think I've got them down in order.
So in terms of the response rate, how has it trended over time?
This year we are slightly down on last year.
Last year from the top of my head we had 711, so we've had about 20 responses less.
But it's vast improvement on the previous year when we only just met the regulators
requirement for 514.
How to increase it over time?
I think it's about offering more incentives and doing more targeted work with the tenants
that we need to reach the most.
Those that have the strongest opinions will always be the first to respond,
which is one of the reasons why this year when we contracted the provider,
we said we want you to do some targeted phone surveys as well,
to try and get those hard to reach people, and it does seem to have helped.
The next one is...
So, yeah, this report was...
Sorry, this survey was carried out and started in May.
So, when people filled it in, the new contract had only just started,
so they're being asked in the survey over the last 12 months about repairs.
So, it's a look back rather than a look forward.
So, we'll revisit that in this time next year.
And in terms of younger people being less satisfied with the service, yes, that's true.
It's always been the case that our older tenants,
particularly those in the independent living schemes,
are happier with the service we provide.
That's largely due to the fact
they've had a longer, ongoing relationship with them,
and also in the independent living schemes,
they have a closer relationship with us
because we have a more visible on -site presence.
That's why one of the recommendations in the action plan
we're proposing will be to do some targeted work
to engage more with the younger tenants.
Does that answer everything?
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:35:14
Thank you very much and Councillor A. Martin.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Alan Martin - 1:35:22
Just return to the topic of the Romley Marsh and this point around the perception.
It does seem consistently that the scores across the whole survey are worse on the Romley
Marsh.
So around this perceived underinvestment point, neighbourhood contribution, engagement, antisocial
behaviour, communication and visibility.
I question a little bit us saying that that's just a perception and not actually the reality.
I mean it's a perception survey but people can only tell you what they perceive and if
that's what they consistently perceive there must be an issue that we need to look into.
So I'm keen to understand what our plans are across those kind of key headings to try and
address that.
So if it is a perception issue, we should be communicating better
and demonstrating that there isn't the issue that people perceive,
or we have to acknowledge the fact that those issues are real
and do something about it.
So it kind of feels like we're not fully committed to doing that,
based on what you said.
FHDC Officer - 1:36:31
Thank you, Councillor Martin. I'm sorry if that came across the wrong way.
No, I'm fully committed to better understanding the reasons for dissatisfaction with people
down on the marsh and I think one of the ways we can do that with some follow -up work to
go down and do some targeted work to ask them why they feel the way they do, ask them to
elaborate more on their feelings.
If we can get people to engage, and I would emphasise the if because it's sometimes very
difficult to get people to engage in a focus group type setting, but if we can get people
to do that, that's certainly something I'd like to explore.
And again, I'd like to better publicise successful outcomes and success storeys that we've demonstrated,
particularly in areas where people don't necessarily think that we're listening to them.
So, no, we are very much in listening mode and more than happy to do some follow -up work
with tenants down on the marsh.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:37:24
Coming back on that.
Cllr Alan Martin - 1:37:28
And Councillor Hills, did you want to speak on that as well?
So I'll let Councillor Martin first and then you can go on.
So thank you for that and if there's anything we can do to help, obviously we rightly get
it in the ear day to day and I've had a few emails from some residents in Lid just this
week with various concerns, I'm sure everyone does around, but if you needed some help and
support to get some residents together, I'm sure we can help you with that.
That would be lovely, thank you very much.
FHDC Officer - 1:38:03
Councillor Hills.
Councillor Tony Hills - 1:38:08
Yeah, supporting what Alan just said, I think it's more so that we go to parish meetings
and we can disseminate information onto their websites and so on.
Now I don't think you're working this hard enough.
We should do more, basically.
You may live to regret that, Councillor.
I'd be surprised.
But anyway, also the leader did mention a while back
that he was thinking about bringing the newspaper back,
Council.
He's been delecting sweets.
I haven't got mine yet, but they're going to want the marsh.
Could resist, Jim.
But yes, that's one way, because I'm really concerned,
a lot of elderly people in some accommodation
and not always on the computer 24 -7.
I do think we're missing a trick on how to balance content and visibility.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:39:00
I'll leave it there.
FHDC Officer - 1:39:02
Thank you, Councillor Hills.
Totally take that point on board.
I would add that we do publish a six -monthly tenant newsletter
and in the alternating months we publish a tenant bulletin,
which is posted to... They're all published online.
If I ask Jake, would you put the link in the minutes, please, Jake?
Thank you.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:39:22
It's right.
So we're going to be ending this soon.
So we're going to do Councillor Davison and then Councillor Jones and then no more questions
after that.
We need to vote.
Thanks, Chair.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:39:39
Yeah, I mean, I think there's been a lot of sort of thoughtful and diligent work that's
gone into looking at this, which is, you know, much appreciated.
and it's really good to see the scores going up,
obviously the right decision to bring things back in house
when that decision was made.
I just had a few questions.
It's really useful, I think, to have the breakdown
that's in the report this year.
I didn't quite understand,
and this may be me just not understanding,
the difference between the table at 4 .4 in the cover report
and the table in the appendix.
both location figures, I think,
but they don't quite seem to be the same,
and I wasn't sure why.
But looking at some of the figures in there,
so my own more folks in Central, for example,
under TP03, there's a 91%,
so I'm wondering what we're doing right there,
and whether there's good things that are happening
that we could learn from.
That seems particularly high.
You were talking about understanding why it might be
that some of the scores are lower,
what people's perceptions or reality might be.
I think a couple of places in the report,
it talks about assumptions as to why it might be the case
that that's a particular response that's been received, for example,
from disabled tenants?
Would it be possible in the survey just to ask people
why it's the case that they're giving the response that they're giving
and perhaps we'd get useful feedback that way?
I think it's really useful what you said about following up
in a kind of targeted way.
When we were putting together the future plan for the district,
there was some targeted door knocking that took place,
which was really valuable in terms of generating feedback from residents.
I appreciate there are costs involved and resources in doing that,
but I think it was really good at reaching people.
And then I think my last question, sorry, there's quite a few there, comments,
was just in the appendix there are some recommendations
arising from the organisation that's done the report.
Are those something that you're looking at as well?
FHDC Officer - 1:42:10
Thank you Councillor Davison. I may have to come back to you on a couple of those I'm
afraid. So the first point about the tables in 4 .4 in our report, the geographic tables,
could you please direct me to which bit in the appendix you're looking at. I'm struggling
to find it.
It's just nice green and red tables.
Oh that one.
Unhelpfully there isn't.
I might be looking at a different document.
Effective location unsatisfaction.
I found it I think.
Yes.
Ah, the reason is the report 4 .4 of our report breaks it down by ward and the table in the
the company's report breaks it down by what we use as housing patches.
So if we're looking at the same table, I've got one that says,
Cheriton, Folkestone Central, Folkestone East,
Folkestone North and Rural, Hyde and Romney Marsh,
whereas the other one lists all of our individual wards.
So Folkestone Central in that report doesn't correlate
with the same Folkestone Central as the other one.
Okay.
I should have made that clearer in my report, sorry.
Yeah, because they're both called Folkestone Central.
Okay, thanks.
Next question I think was around why some perceptions are lower
and should we include some questions asking why people,
they feel dissatisfied in some areas.
We do do that. We have the free text boxes in there.
Unfortunately, not everybody fills it in.
But again, I think coming back to the point that some of your colleagues were making,
we can do some more follow -up work around that.
Link to that, your point about door knocking, absolutely.
More than happy to explore that.
As you say, it's quite resource intensive, so we'd have to consider carefully how we
can balance it alongside our other work, but certainly something we can explore.
And in terms of the recommendations in the full report, I seem to recall most of them
are things that we are already doing, which is where it would have been helpful if the
survey company had consulted us before they published the final report, really.
But yeah, I can't find them off the top of my head but certainly some of them around...
Oh here we are. Strengthen the complaints process for example by improving acknowledgement times,
sending acknowledgement letters. Yeah we do that.
There were quite a few there that we looked through when we got it but we thought yes we do that already.
But certainly when it says overall message and they've listed several bullet points.
one, two, three, four, five, six, they are certainly something that we will all be taking
forward to put forward in the action plan and I should have added that the strategic
tenant panel will be reviewing the action plan on a two -monthly basis. They meet every
two months and it will be a standing agenda item for them to make sure that we're delivering
the actions that we've identified. Did that answer your question?
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:45:17
Thank you. Councillor Jones.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:45:21
It was a very similar thing. It was about how the data was being presented.
On the first table, it wasn't clear if it was a percentage,
what percentage of how many people had responded.
The coloured one is a bit clearer, but then it's not by ward.
That's not so helpful either.
When you're looking at somebody who's dissatisfied,
is it because only three people responded and they're all dissatisfied
and there's a lot of people who didn't respond
or did a lot of people respond and they were dissatisfied?
It's getting that data a bit clearer.
I think it's a little bit confusing the way it's presented.
I don't know how we can make that clearer in future,
but it would be helpful. Thank you.
FHDC Officer - 1:46:04
Thank you, Councillor Jones.
I think I know an easy way around that in future.
We can include a comment at the end base
showing how many people responded to that question.
Learning point for future.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:46:15
Excellent will go to vote now.
So recommendations are to receive
and note report OS 2506 to note
the results of the 2025 tenant
satisfaction survey as set out in
this report and in the more detailed
report attached as Appendix One,
and to make recommendations to
officers on issues for inclusion in
the tenant satisfaction action plan,
which will be developed in partnership
with the Strategic Tenant Advisory Panel.
Can I have a proposal please?
Councillor Davidson, a seconder, Councillor Hills and a vote please.
Thank you.
So our last item, Community Infrastructure Levy Allocation of Council Funds.
Ewan Green, Director of Strategy and Resources and Llewellyn Lloyd, Chief Office Planning
and Building Control will introduce the item.
in regards to this, members are asked to provide feedback on the proposed list of priority

8 Community Infrastructure Levy (CIL) - Allocation of Council Funds

projects. There's no formal recommendation. So once he finishes speaking, we can provide
some feedback. Thank you.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:47:22
Thank you.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 1:47:29
Apologies councillors, I'm just going to try and get some IT working for you.
Yeah, there we are.
Good evening councillors and thank you for the time this evening.
Before you we are presenting the priority projects to be scheduled or draught projects
to be scheduled in the 2025 infrastructure funding statement which will be presented
to Cabinet and full Council at the end of this year and early next year.
The reason we are here is following a Cabinet in early 2024.
There was an expression by councillors to engage members more fully in the process.
It's always been a member involved process with approval of the spending every year carried
out by Cabinet and full Council.
However, it was felt that there could be a degree of further involvement for members.
So tonight we are here to hear your feedback on the potential projects as listed in the pack that you have seen.
We haven't previously brought this to you and I'll take you through the changes to the process as we go on.
I don't intend to go through the entire slide pack though,
but I will just draw some key points to your attention if that's ok, and then you can get into some questions.
I think the first thing to bear in mind is
What is SIL, just for those of you who don't touch it very often, the Community Infrastructure
Levy is a charge applied to all developments in the district unless they are zero rated
or excluded from the schedule, generally retail and residential, and it is to cover the funding
of infrastructure and to mitigate the impacts of that development that comes forward as
part of planning applications.
It's a pot to deliver things as opposed to just a pot of money that we can use for lots
of different things as we see fit.
A portion of that is controlled by this district authority,
which is about 55%.
30 % is given to Kent County Council to deliver schools,
roads, et cetera, and their priorities,
some wastewater, waste transfer stations, et cetera.
And 15 % is transferred to town and parish councils.
No doubt a number of town and parish councils
will be in the process of preparing
their own infrastructure funding statements,
which need to be prepared and published
by December of this year across the district for their spending.
As I said we have changed the process and I can draw your attention to appendix 3 of
the pack which is the change to the system.
I don't know if I can pop it into hand.
It should be in the pack that you were emailed.
I'll come out of my presentation for two minutes.
I've got a copy, if one of the councillors has got a copy.
So to take you through the table at Appendix 3, you'll note that there are three rows in
the middle which have got the red no next to them.
This is where we've introduced new processes or steps into the process.
Previously officers would talk with other internal colleagues, we would discuss with
the NHS and other bodies externally who might be seeking funding towards public infrastructure.
We would then collate that and discuss as officers, prepare the infrastructure funding
statement and put it to cabinet and then full council for approval.
What we've introduced now is we will have an informal briefing with all portfolio holders
to discuss the priority projects for the years ahead.
We will then bring those priority projects to a section 106 SIL monitor
office in group just to double cheque that they meet with the regulations as set
out in the SIL infrastructure regulations and then we'll provide that to
over the scrutiny or similar other member led committee for refinement and
discussions whether they agree with some of those which provides feedback for
cabinets and for council in due course. We feel that this is a delicate balance
between the Office of Resources member resource and ensuring that members get an opportunity
to comment outside of Cabinet and full Council on the projects at an earlier stage.
The other thing that I think is worth bringing to your attention is some parts of our district
don't seem to get very much seal money.
I think we need to just address that very quickly.
The reason for that is that some parts of our district struggle for development of viability
and therefore a zero -rated LID, Cheriton, Buxton East for instance, don't attract,
charge, sill for residential uses because that would undermine the viability of developments
in those areas. So as a consequence there is no automatic neighbourhood pot that gets accrued
or sent to the districts, the parish councils or town councils. It is also directly related to how
much development comes in.
So CIL is only attributable to mitigating
the impact of development in those areas
across the district.
And as a lot of our burden in terms of development impact
is from folks that are hired in the more central areas, that
is where the spend tends to go.
But that is where the burden is being felt
harnessed by development.
However, as you'll see at appendix six of tonight's pack,
we have included, not page six of the presentation,
My apologies.
We have included some projects both in LID and in Folkestone East to ensure that areas
which should not normally get automatic funding through the neighbourhood pot are allocated
some money in the next financial year for spend.
And just to address one other point as raised by Councillor Davidson, the table on page
of the presentation highlights that.
It's for monies claimed in the 24 -25 financial year,
but it is the 2025 IFS, because we're agreeing it's in 2025,
but it's for money to be spent in the next financial year
and afterwards.
This is for future spend.
The IFS tends to be the infrastructure funding statement.
There's a backwards look at what we have spent,
and now for yourselves this evening,
a forward look at what we might spend to the tune of around 1 .5 million, which my presentation
doesn't want to work again, is set out on this table. So as officers we'd very much welcome
your thoughts this evening as to your thoughts on those projects and happy to take any further
questions. I don't know if you want to go any further additions there.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:54:40
Thank you. Members, do you have any questions?
Cllr John Wing - 1:54:50
Thank you, Chair. Thank you for the report. On this table 2 .2, it's on the screen now,
it says FOCA health facility £1 million. As far as I'm aware, that scheme hasn't been
electrified with the help of authority.
What happens at £1 million if it doesn't happen?
Llywelyn Lloyd - 1:55:11
If the funding isn't needed,
it would fall back into the district authorities' control for future projects.
But we need to allocate it at this point
so that we've got the funding available
and the public can see that that's what we're intending to use the money for
from silver seats collected in the previous financial year.
But it will fall back into the general box
for something else in the future if need be.
Cllr John Wing - 1:55:34
So it won't just be wasted basically if it doesn't happen?
Llywelyn Lloyd - 1:55:38
Okay, it's definitely not wasted.
Okay.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:55:40
Councillor Tony Hills - 1:55:44
Councillor Hills, then Jones, then Martin.
Thank you, Chair.
I'm interested to see up there lid play areas.
I discussed that with Annie, what, ten years ago?
Well, it's 2017, but it's pre -COVID.
I'm not sure... could you tell me a bit more about that from somebody?
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 1:56:07
I haven't got all the details at hand but speaking to the team who are responsible
for looking after the players, Aaron and Co, as you know,
we're looking at the score players that we're looking to invest in in the area.
The thought being then we'll be able to pick up again the conversations
for yourselves as local councillors to see if they're going to then be adopted moving
forward in line with the playerage strategy but we're very much aware that there is a
need down there now whether we can address that next year might be unlikely there's a
lot of on the agenda at the moment so it might be the year after but we're putting the money
in there to re -mark it for that future use.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:56:46
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:56:47
Thank you for that.
Councillor Jones.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:56:51
You know I'm a big fan of Sill and certainly we've invested a lot in Hith which has been
great but we've got a lot of big development going on in Hith at the moment and I'm just
speaking from experience there.
There's concern that we're not getting as much Sill investment in some local play structures
next to those residential areas as perhaps would be useful to balance the development
development that's going on and the potential families and that be moving to the area.
So I don't know if there's any way that councillors can feed a little bit more into that and see
if we can get, if there is a particularly big development and something big infrastructure
going on, how can we find that money going in that direction?
I don't know if that makes sense.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 1:57:39
Thank you, Councillor Jones.
I think there's two aspects to this.
There's the first is the consultation phase and then planning application where we consult
the local town council and parish councils on developments in their area.
Focus on commentary and planning applications need not simply be about the objection or
support of a proposal that actually matters which might help overcome local concerns or
member concern.
So that could definitely be raised.
We do as part of planning applications under the core strategy and places and policies
plan have policies around equipped play and committed sums towards their maintenance which
goes into the council to deliver strategic play and other.
Some sites require on -site areas of play which have their own specialist Section 106 agreements.
Some Section 106s are very specific about where it has to be spent.
Some have to be slightly more generic because unless there is an identified project at the
beginning there has to be a broader delivery of that.
There is definitely funding from developments for on -site play.
If we take Martello Lakes in Hyde for instance, that has a number of requirements for what
they call locally equipped areas of play and local areas of play, laps and leaps for those
planning nerds amongst us, and then requirements to fund and community payments towards those.
There is then the strategic pots that comes out of Sill which as tonight demonstrates
could be used for that and there's definitely feedback from councillors to officers around
directly and through future meetings.
And then there's the local neighbourhood path,
which is 15 % of all civil seats.
You quite rightly say,
Hyde is very good at utilising their fund
and delivering locally.
And that's great to see,
and we're hoping to promote the work
that has been done through newsletters going forward.
But I think it's a continual dialogue
between councillors and locals
through both the planning authority
and through colleagues who look after our states.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:59:36
Thank you. I know there's been a lot of pushback from HIVE on one certain development,
where they'd like some investment in a play facility next door, and it's an expensive one.
So it's how to get that money coming in our direction, I guess that was the question.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 1:59:54
I think I'm talking about the right site, which is the one down on the former Smith's Medical site.
that there is funding available for that
and that is for useful play areas in the district
and when we discuss whether it's delivered
the work you need definitely.
I think what's crucial about that particular funding stream
is that it's not to be paid until the 35th occupation
which is some way off and unfortunately
in dialogue with Hightower Council
doesn't align with their delivery rates
of needing the money sooner unfortunately.
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:00:26
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 2:00:26
Thank you.
Okay, thank you.
So this is the order that we're going to go
So it's Councillor A. Martin, Holgate, Davidson, Thomas and then E. Martin.
We're ending there.
I will limit you to one question, so if you go beyond that I will stop you.
Thank you.
So Councillor A. Martin.
Thank you very much.
Cllr Alan Martin - 2:00:48
So returning to the LID play area, I...
and maybe outside of this meeting I'd be interested to better understand the...
the strategy there and why we chose play areas specifically.
As we were saying earlier, as an area,
I think there's a strong perception of underinvestment
and that people have got left behind.
I think a lot of people with children would flag play areas as being an issue
and certainly around the parish and town councils
there's been an ongoing discussion
around whether some of the council owned play areas could get taken on by the parish and
town councils but also an apprehension around doing so because of their own funding and
also the state of those play areas themselves.
But the, it's not just play areas where people would flag I think if there was a conversation
in the community and I'm curious that we've zoned in on play areas which would be one
of a number of things that I would point to that I think if we had some dialogue with
the parish and town councils and in the wider community people might flag other areas where
they would welcome the investment of those funds.
As an idea I mean I love the fact that LID has appeared here because I think it is one
of the things that's always baffled me a little bit with the SEAL monies and I do understand
I sort of understand the point around why areas like LID aren't able to access that
kind of funding but it's certainly appreciated that there's a bit of redistribution going
on but maybe we could have some local dialogue around how the funds are actually spent.
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 2:02:40
Just a play area part of that and Llewellyn might want to come in and start her anyway.
Anyway, so the play areas, we've got the governance
in place around the players, we've got the player strategy,
as you're well aware.
So this is carrying on the work of the player strategy,
so we've recognised the fact, we've had conversations
before we recognised the fact that there is
an improvement needed.
We've provided funding within the IFS,
which will allow us to do that in due course.
Importantly, there are assets that we own as a district currently,
whereas we don't have a huge number of assets in LID,
so conversations about assets that we don't own would have to follow a different course.
So, happy to pick up specifics with you outside of the meeting,
but that is why we have addressed the players,
as I know if Llewellyn has anything that he wants to add to that.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 2:03:37
I think in terms of the engagement piece, I think it's really important.
Back to Councillor Hill's point about working harder, I'm really sorry about that.
But Appendix 3 of the pack talked about our member engagement profile and it highlights
on row 2 and for April and May engagement with cabinet members and portfolio holders.
That's now a public document to a degree, so there's nothing to stop the parish council
and yourselves discussing, you know, we had projects, what would they be?
They need to be fleshed out and how much do they cost and where are they?
I can't see a reason why you wouldn't feed that through to cabinet members and portfolio
holders and say, when you're discussing this as officers, about where the priorities are,
would you please put these on the list?
That gives us an extra degree of dialogue to make that happen and to take that into
account.
There's also nothing, I don't think, you know, as Councillor Hills expressed, in engaging
with officers directly, especially around certain things, around where there might be
asks that we know what that might be. We are to a degree reliant on the core strategy,
the corporate plan, our estates and trying to send the money to where we feel the housing,
the retail might be putting pressure on local things. New houses results normally in pressure
on things like play parks or other bits and pieces and that's why we have redistributed
But I think that window in April, May is certainly opportunity for yourselves to talk to your
colleagues at the Taggapatch Council level to feed that back up.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 2:05:14
Thank you.
I just want to make a note of the fact that we're trying to provide feedback on the proposed
list of priorities.
So if you have any points in regards to that, that would be great.
So the next person is Councillor Holgate.
Cllr Rich Holgate - 2:05:29
Thank you, Chairs.
I was just thinking about that point around keeping it feedback based.
I am amazed that there's no explicit line item in the timeline that does talk to about community residents.
And I know they would have been involved in other areas of policy making,
like kind of always like elsewhere.
But I in terms of feedback, I would really advocate for a more deliberate work that includes and discusses with the community.
so that people in the residence don't feel like these projects are being done to them.
We will open ourselves up for criticism when, whilst it's wonderful,
we have new play parks and things,
but if residents don't feel like they're a part of this,
then I feel we're really missing an opportunity.
So that's my strongest feedback.
I have other questions I will leave now.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 2:06:19
Thank you, Councillor Hockett. I think there's a couple of points there.
I think it's a really interesting point.
The corporate plan is a public document where we engage the populace
about what our priorities are as a council in terms of delivery locally.
We do engage through planning applications
and as I said, SILL money is directed to an infrastructure list.
To get to a SILL, to demonstrate we can have SILL in the first place,
we have to collate all the infrastructure that all the new development in the development plan
would end up in new roads, hospitals, play parks, all that kind of stuff, schools.
And that ends up in a sum, and there's a gap, and SIL is proposed to find that gap.
But once the money is identified for that, and then it fills the emphasis,
there will be engagement, no doubt, on these projects.
There has been engagement on Volker with the community about what we might do with it,
and similarly with the LID players, but it's something we can take away.
But there's also a role, I suspect, for both everybody in this room
Cllr Rich Holgate - 2:07:22
to engage with how do you feel about these things.
Sure, and I recognise that.
There's definitely indirect engagement as a result of all the other work that we do.
But there is no direct mechanism that says,
residents want more play parts, let's do more play parts.
A feedback loop is too long and wide for a resident to be able to understand
that this work is happening as a result of the corporate plan feedback
I just think there is an opportunity to create better, more distinct pay -a -bit feedback loops,
is the thing about feedback.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 2:07:53
Okay, thank you. And Councillor Davison.
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:07:59
Thanks, yeah, I think my comment's the same really.
I think it's difficult for us to give specific feedback on these,
because we don't really know what may have been discounted
or what other ideas might have come through.
So I think relying on kind of informal communications with portfolios
holders or officers, it wouldn't necessarily get to the best place in terms of equality
of opportunity for people to feed in and getting maybe hard to reach ideas from people.
So I would also agree that this is a good step along the way, I think, having come to
us, but maybe it could come earlier, maybe we could have a bit of a broader set of proposals,
maybe we could think about some link out into the community,
like this committee already does,
in terms of seeking ideas for the scrutiny schedule for the following year,
asking people and explaining to people what still is
and what they... so that they're not getting ideas back
that wouldn't fit the profile,
but making sure that we are reaching out.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 2:09:10
Thank you. Valid points there.
Councillor Thomas.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:09:16
Thank you, Chair. Llewellyn very kindly put out a note to show what CIL is currently held
by individual councils, which is very good. The only thing is, from the comparison with
our own, what you think we've got and what we've got there seems to be some kind of disparity.
I know when we discussed this at the previous OSC,
the process was a purchase order is issued to an individual council,
they then raise an invoice to draw down on that money
and then the money goes in the bank, simple as that.
For that particular issue, last time I raised it with the council,
they hadn't seen the purchase order for whatever reason,
but when that process was enacted, we did get the money in a very timely manner.
So my question is, how many purchase origins have been raised
where there is no associated invoice to draw down?
So is there any money, or how much money is in limbo
where you think a purchase has been raised
but a council hasn't drawn down on that money?
I didn't know if it's possible to do that. Thank you.
Mr Alan Mitchell - 2:10:25
So through Chair if I may, so that's probably saying we'd have to go away and look at this
sort of information I've had to hand but we can certainly look to see whether or not that
information, we know what the POs are and what the fraud is.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 2:10:43
Excellent, thank you.
So we move on to Councillor E. Martin.
Cllr Elaine Martin - 2:10:51
Mine is more of just a question really.
Do the parish and town councils have to give us any feedback as to how they spend their
seal money at all?
Llywelyn Lloyd - 2:11:05
Thank you Councillor Martin.
Yes, Tower and Parish Councils, I have to think back to us, all Tower and Parish Councils
who receive SILL money are required to go through the preparation of their own infrastructure
funding statement.
They are legally required to demonstrate what they have spent money on, how much they hold
and what they have not spent money on, what they intend to spend money on.
They have to be transferred to the public.
That needs to be published on their website by December of this year I believe.
So every town and parish council on the list I've previously circulated needs to be able to do that.
Some we get very early.
If the money is not spent by those authorities, that money must be returned to the district authority.
So if money isn't spent by the local areas, and the neighbourhood pot is specifically designed for that very localised feedback from the areas of
we would like to do, which is the direct communication with the parish and town councils.
So yes, the town parish councils don't have to report to us.
We do ask for a copy just for our own records, but they do have to publish it legally on their own websites.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 2:12:15
Thank you very much. So if you do have any further questions or any further feedback,
I'm sure the officers will be happy to deal with them outside of the meeting.
That's our last item for this meeting is now closed.
Webcast Finished - 2:12:33
Thank you very much.