Finance and Performance Scrutiny Sub-Committee - Tuesday 3 February 2026, 6:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Finance and Performance Scrutiny Sub-Committee
Tuesday, 3rd February 2026 at 6:00pm 

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Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:00:11
Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:00:15
Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:00:50
Good evening, members.
We have a slightly unusual start to the meeting.
The chair has informed me that she is running slightly late, so has sent her apologies.
For the purposes of this meeting, we will need to elect the chair.
Do we have any nominations?
I will propose, Councillor Weane.
Do we have a seconder?
Can I have a show of hands, please?
So you are elected as chair for the purposes of this meeting, Councillor Wink.
.
Cllr John Wing - 0:02:22
Good evening, everybody.
I'd like to apologise for a slightly late start tonight.
Anyway, I'd like to welcome everybody to the founders and performance scrutiny subcommittee.
This meeting will be webcast live for the internet.
For those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed, you may need to leave the chamber.
For members, officers and others speaking at the meeting, it is important to use the
microphones so viewers on the webcast and others in the room may hear you.
Would anybody with mobile phones please switch to silent mode, as this can be distracting.
And I would like to remind members that although we may have strong opinions or matters
under consideration, it is important to treat members, officers, and public's meetings
with respect.
Okay, so moving on to the meeting now.
Having decorations of interest.
Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:03:21
I'm Councillor Thomas.
Director of Opportunities.
And I'd also like to declare myself
as a Director of Opportunities as well.
Right, so moving on to the meeting.
Cllr John Wing - 0:03:39
Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:03:39
Apologies for absence. Have we got any apologies for absence?
Thank you, Chair. We have apologies from Councillor Holgate and obviously
Cllr John Wing - 0:03:50
Councillor Cofield -Kelly is running late. Thank you. Right, moving on to the agenda.
Item number three, which is a draught general fund review budget monitoring report
for the third quarter, 2025 to 26. Is Jonathan on that?
Thanks, Doctor.
Thank you, Chair.
Jonathan Smith - 0:04:10
So this report in front of you presents to you the General Fund revenue budget monitoring
for the third quarter of the year, i .e. up until the end of December 2025.
So it summarises the financial monitoring information and it provides management with
an overview of budget performance.
At the end of quarter three, the financial position shows projected year -end favourable
position of 1 .433 million against a net revenue budget of 22 .3 million. The report itself
summarises all of the key movements at paragraphs 1 .5 and also there's the appendix which has
the detailed summary of the movements in year. Key to highlight is obviously given the swing
between quarter two and quarter three, those specific items are summarised at the table
in paragraph 1 .5, the biggest item of which is to do with the movement in the earmarked reserves,
but that's explained at paragraph 3 .3 below.
And otherwise, I'm happy to take any questions you might have on the report.
Thank you very much.
Cllr John Wing - 0:05:15
Right, so it's open to questions.
Councillor Thomas.
Cllr John Wing - 0:05:22
Thank you, Chair.
Just a couple of things from me.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:05:25
On the, in appendix, which if you want to use just a minute,

3 Draft General Fund Revenue Budget Monitoring Report - 3rd Quarter (Q3) 2025/26

in the variance analysis, appendix A,
sorry, I do apologise, appendix B, in the table there,
we've got counter -tax reduction scheme again,
with, it says unfavourable variance, 598,
due to income budget not taken off from discontinued scheme.
That's the same as we spoke about at the previous meeting.
Okay, thank you very much.
If I may as well, Chair, on Street Park in the enforcement,
I see the income is up there, which is interesting.
It's just a comment.
But the other thing is there's a negative variance
on my field industrial estate.
So we've got 40K associated with rent we're expecting,
but we haven't got for two vacant units.
And then we've got also 21K business rates
and electrical bills on the vacant units.
Are we actively promoting those units for occupation?
Thank you.
Ken, Jonathan.
Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillor Thomas.
Jonathan Smith - 0:06:48
For the question with regards to Melkville Road,
I probably need to take that back to the service
to understand what the situation is on the ground
relating to those units.
I imagine they are being offered for unit let
if that's possible,
but I will need to confirm with the service.
Yes, Martin.
Cllr John Wing - 0:07:09
Okay, thank you.
Yeah, thank you.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:07:14
So as far as I could tell,
all the unfair movements are ones we've spoken about
in previous quarters.
so there's no surprises there.
I just wondered whether you could just walk me through the,
so we've got that positive reserve.
Hold on.
So I've just closed my document down.
Bear with me a second.
Yeah, so we've got that positive movement in reserves,
which as you say is explained in 3 .3.
Just for my benefit, can you just walk me through those just to make sure I'm clear
what's happening?
So it's really just explaining that 1 .26 million, and then I've got another question once you've
helped me with that.
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Councillor Martin.
Jonathan Smith - 0:08:07
Yeah, so in terms of EMR preserves, so obviously there have been some movements.
In large part, there's a number of movements happening all at once, different directions.
The net position obviously that the earmarked reserves
are being consumed by effectively,
well there's more income coming in.
Part of that's to do with, for example,
some of the projects that have been going on.
So I think of that 1 .26 million,
there's a certain amount that's being
effectively profiled forwards.
So it's not being consumed in year.
So where you have an expense that's potentially being made
and it's no longer being made in that year,
that releases some funding.
So don't forget the earmarked reserves line is a net movement whether it transfers to reserves or transfers from reserves
where we where we've
Where the budget plan to put some money into reserve for specific uses for example, that's no longer being used
Then that expense comes off and it effectively pushes up the the income that's coming in because the net position
Is now changing and so there have been a couple of capital programmes
I think specifically to do with levelling up
so that I think some of the items
are being profiled forwards.
We're also talking about the fact
there's an increased use actually of HPG grants.
So for example, we're actually using more of the HPG grant.
So this specific item is to do with the fact
that HPG grant, it's a specific ring fence grant
and obviously it has conditions around its use.
Historically, in this authority,
we've not always used all of grant money upfront first.
So what we've done certainly over the course of this year
and part of our budget review is making sure
that any ring fence grants we're consuming first
because obviously those are the ones that if,
for example, you consume other general reserve,
for example, in future, but then hold on to HPG,
the HPG can only be used on specific temporary accommodation.
So it was more a change of the approach
to use of our reserves and looking at our earmarked reserves
and saying actually we've had this much HPG grant in,
we're gonna use that up as much as possible
to free up effectively the general reserve for other uses.
So it's those kinds of movements
that are talked about here.
Certainly that was the HPG one as an easy specific item.
We're also using some of the carry forwards against spend
where it's been obviously properly,
spend has been properly made
for the purpose of the corporate plan.
So we've incurred that spend,
we're bringing those reserves into use,
i .e. the earmarked reserves,
again, they're being used for this specific purpose.
We've talked about some use,
so 305K is being used on supporting
temporary accommodation spend,
so obviously the budget gap, subsidy gap,
so we're putting some more in towards that.
So these are the movements that are happening
within the earmarked reserves.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:11:07
It's a bit of a fog when you first look at it,
and it's just helpful for you to run through
that sort of extra granularity.
And I hadn't really thought about the protected
sort of grants before, so I can see how that works.
That's really good, thank you.
And then just in terms of the reserve movements generally,
so we're seeing a net reduction in reserves of seven,
So that's earmarked reserves of seven million.
And I think we discussed before,
so the three and a half,
it says projects being finished at the end of the year,
but that's essentially Princess Parade, is it?
Is it Princess Parade on its own?
Yes, Councillor Martin, yesterday's, yeah.
And just for clarity,
Jonathan Smith - 0:11:53
so that goes at the end of this year,
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:11:57
so in this financial period, yeah?
Yes.
Correct.
Cllr John Wing - 0:12:09
Have we got any more questions?
Councillor Thomas.
Okay.
Cllr John Wing - 0:12:24
Okay, so that was item number three, which was the draught General Fund Reserve Budget
Monitoring Report, third quarter.
Okay, so we've been asked to receive a note with the report.
Can I have a proposal?
The Councillor Thomas and the seconder?
Councillor Martin, a show of hands?
Okay.
Right, so it's passed.

4 Draft General Fund Capital Programme Budget Monitoring - 3rd Quarter (Q3) 2025/26

Cllr John Wing - 0:12:55
So moving on to the next item now before, which is the draught General Fund Capital Programme
Budget Monitor, the third quarter.
25, yes, 25, 26.
Okay, so I believe Jonathan, you're doing this one again.
Okay, up to you.
Thank you, Chair.
Jonathan Smith - 0:13:13
So the report now before you is the draught General Fund Capital Programme Budget Monitoring
for 25 -26, obviously again, this is a third quarter report,
basically providing spend up until the end of December, 2025.
The key in this report is obviously,
it's the summary that's provided at paragraph 3 .1 and 3 .2,
which deal with the underspend in the capital programme.
And the reasons for that are fully explained
at paragraph 3 .2.
And you'll probably see from that table
that really the biggest items of the £10 million underspend
relate to some of the bigger projects
and really relates to profiling.
So you can see that the folks in the brighter future,
Volcker and Otterpool make up a significant chunk
of the 10 million underspend.
But I'm happy to take any questions that you may have.
Cllr John Wing - 0:14:09
Okay, so it's over to you for any questions.
Councillor Thomas.
Cllr John Wing - 0:14:12
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:14:16
Yes, thank you, Chair. Just a couple. In Appendix 1, on Item 6 and 7, we discussed those previously
in terms of re -profiling, as you've said, the £3 million and £100 ,000. So I don't want to go
through that again. Item 19 is the focused and brighter future, which is the 5 .243. And in the
update from Kent County Council on the more detail
required from Kent County Council.
So what is it specifically we're expecting from them please?
Thank you.
Thank you Chair.
Thank you Council Thomas.
Jonathan Smith - 0:15:02
Effectively this is to do with the fact that obviously
we have contracted with Kent County Council to undertake
a lot of work which is obviously going on in the town
at the moment, Roadworks and the like, the digging.
With respect to the costs, they, it's obviously Kent County Council have the contracts with
their subcontractors and sort of the parts they use, we contract specifically with KCC.
We need information from them about the costs associated, the costs that have been incurred
to date because obviously we're happy to pay for the invoices.
But obviously in terms of a project of this size, even sort of having the clarity of how
which we owe and so being invoiced for that,
that's the reason there's a bit of level of movement.
Because obviously we're profiling based on what we estimate
the spend to date, but obviously we need further clarity
from County Council on the actual spend
so that we can obviously make sure that we are monitoring
and reflecting the budgets as we need to in our finances.
Thank you very much for that.
Cllr John Wing - 0:16:04
I mean, it's an eye -watering amount of money,
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:16:07
That's all, isn't it, £4 .2 million for that year.
I've got a couple of other questions.
So on Item 30,
Prince's Parade Leisure Centre,
there's a movement there of 247.
It says remaining budget to be via the Seabrook Play Area Project.
Reports are going to go later.
That's the first time, I think,
I can't remember seeing anything on us looking at that
as a capital project prior to this report coming out.
That's all.
Thank you.
Thank you, Chair.
Jonathan Smith - 0:16:50
As I understand it, that is in the 26, 27 budgets
that should appear later in the pack.
So effectively, I think there's a movement
on the medium term capital programme,
which should deal with that point later.
One more question if I may, Chair.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:17:09
So on item 47, beach management, we got expected to spend for the rest of the year balanced
re -profile to next year.
That is not affected by anything that's happened with regard to the most recent storms.
I take it that's not going to be impacted because we're saying that's going to be re -profiled
Mr Alan Mitchell - 0:17:39
to 26, 27. Thank you. So, if I may, Chair, for you. So, on that one, they're currently looking at the
piece of work at the moment to understand the combination works that they need to do on that one.
But I do understand that from the actual money that we got from the environmental agency,
there is sufficient or hope to be sufficient contingency to be able to fund that. That's
currently sat in the reserve. So, it may be that that will be utilised. But once that,
we've got to a point where we understand the level of work
and the cost and we can make that decision.
So if I may, so can we, so for the next quarter,
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:18:09
can we make sure that we look at that
as an exceptional item so we get some more feedback
on that and make sure that we're comfortable
with that position, but thank you for your response.
I appreciate that and I fully understand it, thank you.
Councillor Martin, anything to say on this item?
Cllr John Wing - 0:18:26
Yeah, thank you very much.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:18:30
Similar to the last one, I don't have too much on this one
because it's very, it's that time of the year, isn't it,
where you're sort of looking at the same report again
and it's moved slightly.
And as you mentioned, there's lots of re -profiling.
And when I look down the list
of all the stuff being re -profiled,
I think we all know what's going on there.
So that all seems fair.
Just the, I can't remember where it was,
but the 400 ,000 relating to Hyde pool,
I assume that's the consultancy fee.
Is that a consultancy fee relating to,
I know in our previous meeting last week,
overview and scrutiny, we were saying that there's a,
there was some consultants being brought in
to come up with a set of plans for what we do with Hive pool.
Option one, two, three, awesome.
Yeah.
I'm trying to find where in the reports.
I'm hoping I highlighted it.
Oh, maybe it's the leisure,
yeah, it's the leisure developments on item seven
in appendix one, feasibility and design work to inform,
oh yes, okay, to inform options for high pool.
So, sorry, I'll let you answer.
Jonathan Smith - 0:20:11
As you'll see in appendix one for line seven,
or Scheme 7, yes, it's to do with the feasibility
and design work options for Hydepool,
as written on the comments.
Cllr John Wing - 0:20:24
Any more questions on this item?
Actually, Councillor Thomas?
Cllr John Wing - 0:20:28
Cllr John Wing - 0:20:31
In fact, I had the same question as Councillor Martin,
so it's now been cleared up.
So, we're moving to the end,
this is Item 4, draught general fund capital programme,
I didn't want it in third quarter.
So I'll invite a proposer and seconder.
It's Councillor Martin proposing this time
and Councillor Thomas seconding.
And then a quick show of hands.
And that's carried through.

5 Draft Housing Revenue Account Budget Monitoring - 3rd Quarter (Q3) 2025/26

Cllr John Wing - 0:21:15
Cllr John Wing - 0:21:16
I believe that was item four, so moving on to item five now.
This is a draught housing revenue account budget monitoring for the third quarter, 25 to 26.
Any questions?
Cllr John Wing - 0:21:32
Jonathan, your turn, sorry.
Thank you, Chair.
Jonathan Smith - 0:21:34
So, yeah, the report for you now is the quarter three for the housing revenue account.
So this covers both the revenue and the capital budgets
for the HRA.
Again, up until the end of December, 2025,
so covering the full first nine months of the year.
The report obviously highlights the movements
in the revenue budget and the variance.
The current projection is a 163 ,000 pound surplus
based on the latest budget on the revenue account.
And obviously that's outlined at paragraph 2 .1
of the report. Section 3 of the report deals with the capital budget, which relates to
Appendix 2. There's currently sort of a large underspend of $11 million on the capital programme.
Again, the reasons are highlighted within Section 3 and on the appendix. And I'm happy
to take any questions that you may have.
Cllr John Wing - 0:22:32
OK. So it's over to you for the questions.
Councillor Martin.
Cllr John Wing - 0:22:38
I think it's my turn.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:22:43
Yes, so I mean all of this made sense.
I had just a specific question.
I mean I note that the large underspend
due to reprofiling, due to delays from developers,
I think that all makes sense.
I had a question around 2 .7.
I suspect there is an easy answer,
but just keen to get a bit more detail
on this comment around the capital financing and the fact that the interest is higher but
because the capital financing was carried forward, I couldn't quite get my head around
what was going on there, but if you could explain that, that'd be a good thing.
Thank you, Chair. And thank you, Councillor Martin. So effectively, what happens here
Jonathan Smith - 0:23:29
is that obviously when we're sort of engaging
with developers and when we're doing large capital schemes,
we'll effectively take out borrowing
as and when we require it.
So if, for example, we are working through a scheme
and it's been delayed, for example,
we may not take out the borrowing immediately
because obviously the moment you take out the borrowing,
you incur the interest costs for that borrowing.
Where we've obviously carried forward,
we might then have to take a large amount of borrowing
in one particular year,
And you can see from this particular capital budget,
there's obviously a large amount of capital
that's all been taken potentially at once.
Again, it will depend on the stage we get to
by the year end effectively.
And obviously, out term we'll have the true actuals
and the true position for the full year.
But obviously, we do the financing,
it's all part of our council's
treasury management activities
to make sure that obviously we're minimising,
we're interest payable,
but of course, the moment we do take out borrowing,
it will cause a significant increase in interest payable.
Cllr John Wing - 0:24:31
Councillor Thomas, have you got any questions?
Just one point of clarification, please, if I may.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:24:36
In appendix two, I'm happy with appendix one, with appendix two, where we've got the carbon
improvement works, we've got a variance there of 750k, and it says, due to the scene, predominantly
focused on SHDF.
So what's SHDF?
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Councillor Thomas.
Jonathan Smith - 0:24:58
So SHTF is the Social Housing Decarbonization Fund.
It was a grant scheme that ran,
we applied for two rounds of this.
We did wave one and wave two.
And it's effectively, it's the same theme
as is dealt with by the Carbon Improvement Works.
And it's obviously our decarbonization team
were focused on ensuring that we completed
that part of the programme first.
And then they sort of reached a capacity point.
Yeah, thank you very much.
Thanks, John.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:25:24
Cllr John Wing - 0:25:24
Any more questions? Councillor Martin, no? Okay, so moving on. Again, you've covered
most of the things in there that I wanted to bring up. Right, so I'm going to invite
a proposer, second for the draught, revenue account, budget monitoring, third quarter.
Can I have a proposer, please? It has to be Councillor Thomas and Councillor Martin and

6 Draft Housing Revenue Account Revenue And Capital Original Budget 2026/27

Okay, moving on now, we're moving on to number six.
This is a draught housing revenue account,
revenue and capital original budget.
Okay, Jonathan, on to you again.
Thank you, Chair.
So yes, the report before you is the main
Jonathan Smith - 0:26:07
housing revenue account or HRA budget for 26 -27.
This includes the housing revenue account revenue budget
for 26 -27, the capital budget for the first year
but also it provides a medium -term capital programme,
so a forecast for the five years capital programme,
so the look forward.
It also deals with the rent setting,
so it deals at section...
Section 3 of the report.
Section 2 .3 of the report,
we cover the rent increase which is proposed,
and that's obviously limited by government
through the rent standard at CPI plus 1%.
The report actually has now been updated to cabinet papers, obviously being published today.
I can confirm that actually the government have frozen the LHA rates, the local housing
allowance rates, so they are as is drafted in this report. They've also retained the same
standard for the rent increases. So the details that you do see before you in this draught report,
which weren't available at the time of publishing, that has now been confirmed. That was released
yesterday by the government and on Friday.
So the cabinet report has been updated.
But of course we talk about the de -pooling as well.
That's dealt with at section three of the report.
Sorry, section four of the report, 4 .1 deals with de -pooling
and of course this is the main revenue budget,
number of appendices.
Appendix one being the revenue budget,
appendix two being the capital budget.
The first year of the capital budget is also reflected on the medium -term capital programme
in appendix three, and appendix four is for your recollection, to remind you, is the growth
in savings items that have been built into this specific budget.
Details of the whole budget, obviously I summarised in the covering reports, any movements, for
example, things like bad at provision, they're dealt with in the main report, but I'm happy
to take any questions that you might have.
Cllr John Wing - 0:28:08
Okay, so have got any questions on this item?
No, Councillor Martin?
Yes.
I just have one actually.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:28:20
So it's in just in 2 .4 when we're...
I'll just find that myself.
So 2 .4.
So we're showing that the repairs and maintenance management costs, increasing costs.
So obviously we've got the inflation coming through on the MERS contract.
I was just interested if you could provide a bit more detail about what's driving those
costs.
I mean, I assume there's generally inflation in there, but these come from like an increase
in our management overheads, but then also specific growth bids.
Jonathan Smith - 0:29:04
Thank you, Councillor Martin. Yes, in terms of the items at 2 .4, so these will be relating
to – so some of these to do with the growth bits, you'll be able to tie a number of these
to the growth items. There's also inflation – the inflation for the EMEA's contract,
for example, will be a contractual term that we have to obviously comply with, and it's
obviously based on a set number of indices, and that's been calculated as the figure that
you see in the report, but these are the movements, the specific movements on the revenue budget
for this particular item, yes.
Cllr John Wing - 0:29:38
Councillor Craitor.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:29:41
A genuine question, which is looking at the difference between 3 .1 and 3 .2 and the amount
that rents can go up each year. So on 3 .1 it says that the Government regulates how
social housing and rents can increase each year, it's set at CPI plus 1%, which is exactly
what we then follow in terms of our social housing. That means that that can rise by
4 .8 % on the government guidance. On 3 .2 then, it explains that shared ownership rents are
set out, are rents permitted to increase by a maximum of RPI plus half a percent. Can
anyone explain the logic to me to why governments set different, use different inflation indices
crises across those two in depth. I don't, I mean, we enjoy looking at the government
guidance and government background a lot, but literally in those two lines, they say
you lose one inflation measure for one thing, and for the same, in the same housing stock,
a different inflation measure for another thing. And that seems to be one of the more
batshit crazy things I've seen today, but I didn't know if you had a defence or government
policy on that one.
Jonathan Smith - 0:30:56
Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillor Frater. I don't have an answer to that. I obviously
have to – we work to what the government releases and that's it. I don't have the
detail behind the thinking.
Mr Alan Mitchell - 0:31:13
So if I may – this is me winging it rather than anything else. But RPI includes housing
costs and mortgage interest rates, whereas CPI doesn't.
So it may be the reason that they're doing a difference between social rent and a bit
more commercial rent.
Mr Alan Mitchell - 0:31:34
But to answer, I don't actually know.
But that's my view and why they take that approach.
Okay.
Cllr John Wing - 0:31:49
Have we got any other questions?
Okay, so this was item number five, the draught housing revenue account budget monitoring
third quarter.
All right, I'll propose when the secondary is possible.
Cllr John Wing - 0:32:09
Councillor Mark proposing and Councillor Thomas seconding.
And a quick show of hands.
And that's carried enormously.
Okay thank you.

7 Draft General Fund Budget and Council Tax Resolution 2026-27

Cllr John Wing - 0:32:25
So moving on to item number six, the draught housing revenue account, revenue and capital
original budget.
Okay, so Jonathan, over to you again.
Thank you, Chair.
Jonathan Smith - 0:32:38
So the report before you now provides the draught general fund budget and also the council
tax resolution for 26 -27. It should be noted just from the ray off that these papers now
have been updated for Cabinet to now have more confirmed figures that will be published
today. However, the report before you obviously contained some of the draught figures and there
were some items that we couldn't answer at the time of publication, which are dealt with
now in the pack that has been published for Cabinet today.
However, in terms of this specific report, it obviously outlines effectively the Council's
general fund budget, either the main budget for the council
for 26, 27.
There are a number of appendices with this.
Appendix one dealing with the council tax resolution
as well as appendix two, two and three,
which deal with the specific calculations
that go behind some of that
and provide some of the actual statutory formats
that we provide in terms of the council tax.
The MTSS, so the forecast,
The forecast for the revenue account is provided,
or has been provided as part of the cabinet pack,
but was not available at the time for this specific,
this pack for you.
But also we have attached the,
which you will have seen,
appendix eight, the growth and savings items,
which have been built into the main budget.
This was the, this budget summarises at paragraph,
I think 4 .4, the key movements that have happened
in the revenue budget.
So section four deals with the revenue budget,
specifically the general fund and highlights all the movements within different services
which are summarised in the table at paragraph 4 .4. Of note, there are some additional items
which weren't included as part of the growth and savings that have been obviously added
to this report. Those two items are outlined at paragraph 4 .5 relating to the town of culture
bid as well as the community grants levels which have now been confirmed and are built
into the budget.
I'm happy to take any questions that you might have though.
Thank you, John.
Cllr John Wing - 0:34:46
I'd like to welcome Councillor Kelly to the meeting now and have we got any questions?
Councillor Thomas.
Cllr John Wing - 0:34:52
Oh, sorry.
Yeah, thank you, Chair.
Just a couple for me on Appendix 6, if I may.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:35:00
You, under, on page 21, ED41 on community grants,
I think you just touched on that.
So that's 45, 4, 6, 0, going up to 70 ,460.
What does that include exactly on that one, please?
Jonathan Smith - 0:35:28
Forgive me, I'm just trying to get to the page.
.
Jonathan Smith - 0:36:37
Thank you, Councillor Winger. Thank you, Councillor Thomas, for your patience as well. This is
located and dealt with. This one related to the, obviously you'll be aware of the UKSPF
grant funding which was removed effectively. There was a growth correspondingly to deal
with the funding for the community hubs.
So, I believe there was a number of community hubs
that then needed to be funded,
which no longer were being funded by UKSBF,
which has obviously ended.
So, that's what the growth item there specifically relates to.
Cllr John Wing - 0:37:10
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:37:13
So, if I may, I think we're due to take a paper on that shortly,
aren't we, which defines what our support is going to be.
So from memory and what Council Blakemore said recently,
I think that was, it was going from,
so there's, for the three hubs,
going from 5K to 8K a year or something like that
was the increase, it was a relatively small amount.
So the only question I've got is,
could we actually look at giving them more than that?
Because £8 ,000 still isn't a huge amount of money
when you consider the service that they provide,
particularly to the remote communities.
So again, I'm just asking whether we could do something
a little bit better than that,
or whether we're constrained in some other way.
Thank you.
Cllr John Wing - 0:38:05
Thank you, Chair, through you.
So what we're doing in the actual budget
Mr Alan Mitchell - 0:38:10
is that we're maintaining the level of spend
that we have for 25, 26.
so that level of spend or budget is going to be available,
then what members will be able to do
is allocate that as they see fit,
so there will be an additional paper
and member discussion going forward
in terms of how they allocate that budget going forward.
Cllr John Wing - 0:38:31
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:38:38
On page 24, we've got CE31, which is Hyde swimming pool. I think we might have touched on it earlier
on, we've got there currently 322k going up to 337, so that's a 15 ,000 increase in 26,
27. Does that take into account the potential reduction if we're going to be
doing refurbishments? So again, how does that revenue and
you know, issue overlap.
That's my question, thank you.
So thank you, Chair, for you.
Mr Alan Mitchell - 0:39:24
So, no, it doesn't take account of the capital programme.
So one of the things that we're obviously doing
is spending money to come up with the various options.
We obviously talked about that in the earlier item.
Once we've got the various options available,
then that will form the strategy going forward.
What this is seeking to do is just address the revenue costs
that are currently there at this moment in time.
Cllr John Wing - 0:39:45
Councillor Kelly, did you have a question?
Yes.
hole...
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:40:24
helping to advertise that in more detail.
So not just if there is an increase or not, but just in general the fact that they're available.
Because sometimes I notice that some people are scrabbling at the end to try to get some ward grants or get people asking for money,
because a lot of people perhaps are not aware,
especially some grassroots organisations as well in the district.
Mr Alan Mitchell - 0:40:54
Thank you, Chair, for you.
So I think perhaps what we can do as part of the community grants
entire discussion when we're looking at the allocation of the budget,
perhaps we can also look at how we can do an effective communication strategy
to try and, you know, kind of like make people more aware of what's available
and then the routes from which they may be able to apply for that.
But I think that's something that we can certainly look at as part of that discussion.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:41:19
Yes, that would be wonderful, especially, you know, things like little groups like residents associations and so on
who have just started out, they're not aware of the fact that they can ask for money from the council
for whatever activity they're interested in doing for their communities.
And then the other thing in regards to the town of culture, is it possible to explain
where we got the money from or how we allocated the money to use to work towards
the bid?
And what are the eventualities?
What's likely, if we do win, what possibly could happen from us winning the town of
culture?
Mr Alan Mitchell - 0:42:06
So the money does come from a single place.
So obviously if we're looking at the balance by the overall, we're looking at all the different
allocation of income reserves and then just looking at everything that we have available
in order to fill the needs in terms of growth items, savings, income, it's from a multitude
of efforts and not simply from one area.
We've just allocated 100 ,000 as growth items to that.
In terms of the actual process itself, there is first an invitation to bid,
which is what we're putting some of that money towards in that invitation.
If we are then long -listed, then we'll utilise the remainder of that budget
to put in a complete submission, a fuller submission.
Then if you get through that stage, you then get shortlisted.
At that point, you get a grant of 60 ,000,
which will aid towards the further representations
that you do as part of the process.
If you win, you get £3 million.
The £3 million is there to facilitate all the things
that you've got in your telecultural proposal
in terms of things that you want to do.
And if you get second place, I want to say half a million,
but don't quote me on that, that might not be right.
But definitely in terms of the 6 ,000 and 3 million,
that's correct.
But the whole purpose of it is really to,
for us to have a real opportunity to say what a fantastic place
Fokston is.
You know, all the different aspects that we have here
and just how it fits into that whole talent culture remit.
Thank you.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:43:39
Cllr John Wing - 0:43:40
Anybody?
Yes, Martin.
Yeah, thank you.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:43:47
So just on the governance and finance increased costs,
I think I'm right in saying that most of the increased costs there relate to some of the
headwinds we've seen this year and we've spoken about before, like the Council Tax Reduction
Scheme and so on.
I just had a question.
I wasn't quite sure.
It's probably a terminology thing.
I wasn't quite sure what we meant by corporate debt employee charges.
so maybe you can explain to me what they are.
Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillor Martin.
Jonathan Smith - 0:44:24
So corporate debt is one of the services within financial services,
so the debt recovery team within the Council,
so it would be a spend on resourcing for that service,
which obviously generates income or collects debt,
collects Council tax debt, collects business rates debt,
and sundry debtors as well, so they are our debt recovery team.
Thank you very much.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:44:48
So it's not actually corporate debt charges, but it's the movement of the cost of the team
that looks at corporate debt, yeah.
Correct.
Can I ask a question?
Oh, sorry.
Cllr John Wing - 0:45:00
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:45:03
And then I think you said that these have now been published, but I was quite keen to
the movement in reserves which weren't in the document that I've seen but has that
has that been updated in the document now?
Thank you, Councillor Martin. Yes, the reserves and figures have been updated in the cabinet
Jonathan Smith - 0:45:21
papers which were again published today.
Cllr John Wing - 0:45:27
Katzenle, Thomas.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:45:33
Yeah, thank you. Just one final point if I may. Just on page 28, again under general
grants. The, am I right in saying that when it shows under general grants, FH18, you've
got an item there that supplies the services to budget environment within service area.
So the 150K there has come from EE25, the old folks in the sports centre grant has been
moved into that area. Is that correct?
Jonathan Smith - 0:46:06
Thank you, Councillor Thomas. So effectively, yes, what's happened is that, as you'll be
aware, there's the 567k which is mentioned as part of the community grants. That was
one of the grants. Obviously, with the closure of the existing site, that has been deallocated
in place into a part of the 567k money.
Cllr John Wing - 0:46:27
Okay, do we have any other questions this evening from Ms Martin?
No?
So this was item number six, the draught housing revenue account, revenue and the capital original
budget.
Okay, can I have a proposal please?
It wasn't that item, was it?
It was the next one down.
Yeah.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:46:49
I'm happy to propose.
Cllr John Wing - 0:46:54
Okay.
Seconder?
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:46:58
Cllr John Wing - 0:46:58
I'll be second.
Show of hands.

8 Update to the General Fund Medium Term Capital Programme 2026-27

This is Item No. 8 now.
Cllr John Wing - 0:47:09
Yes.
No problem.
Okay.
So it's Item 8, Update General Fund Medium -Term Capital Programme 2627.
Jonathan.
Thank you, Chair.
Jonathan Smith - 0:47:24
So the report before you presents the Medium -Term Capital Programme for 2627.
So this is the Council's General Fund Capital Programme and is all the capital items that
we are proposing as part of the main budget for 2627, all the way up until 3031.
So it's that five -year period.
The appendices to this report, so we've got the actual capital programme in summary.
That's Appendix 1.
And Appendix 2, you will have seen before, it's the capital growth bids.
And so those are the ones that were brought before you in mid -January.
So it's now an integration of this report, brings the integration of those schemes into
the main budget and brings forward the budget as an item for full approval by full council
in February.
And obviously this is the report that capital will hopefully recommend to Council for approval.
Of the items in terms of the movements, they are summarised and sort of the forecast are
summarised at paragraph 2 .5 and the implications of the capital programme at section 3 of the
report.
I'm happy to take any questions you might have.
Cllr John Wing - 0:48:34
Okay.
So have we got any questions?
Cllr John Wing - 0:48:40
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:48:45
Councillor Thomas. Thank you, Chair. Just in Appendix 1, page
4, we've got the new items there. We've got Lid Play Area. In the paper that we had in
in January, it showed that 200K in 2026, 27,
and that's been moved out to 27, 28,
according to that table.
Is that correct?
So it's immediately above the high pool refurbishment
edit strategy, then we've got lead play area.
I'm just clarifying what we were presented with in January.
Thank you.
Thank you, Councillor Thomas.
Jonathan Smith - 0:49:39
Yes, that has been shifted into the 27 -28 column.
I believe that's just due to profiling of the scheme and capacity of the teams to be able to undertake the works.
Cllr John Wing - 0:49:53
Councillor Craitor.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:49:57
Just, I think I'll point out clarification within the capital report. Obviously, when
you look at the table 4 .3, there's a £51 .5 million ottapool in the room. And as I'm,
just for clarification, it's not that that is at this moment committed to spend, but
That is the headroom that we have up to what we have agreed, that the counsel
has already agreed could be spent, but just so that nobody is looking at these and
thinking, what are they about to spend 50 million quid on in Otterpool, there is no
current agreement or plan or expectation to do so. But if we were to, if we went to
the, to the highest level of what we have got permission to do so, that is what that
would be in terms of bringing that forward. But just so that nobody is sat there
going, what are you about to spend that on, the answer is we don't know and there
isn't a proposal to do so, and it would have to come back through Council, it would
have to come through an agreement process for us to spend any significant amount
which is outside the revenue budget this year. It's there to show what we've said
we could spend, not that what we are going to spend, because if you're out of scale
with every other number there, so I thought for clarification it would be useful for anyone
outside this room reading it. I know everybody in this room knew that anyway. They are not
looking at it and go, what are they about to spend 50 million quid on this year? There
is no current proposal to do so.
Cllr John Wing - 0:51:33
Is that the same for all those listed there, the FOCA and the Hive pool?
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:51:38
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:51:41
Mr Alan Mitchell - 0:51:45
wouldn't. So if I may, so the clarity. So I think the left -hand column in terms of the
appendix one I think it is, so in terms of the first column that's the total approved
budget. Then phasing then goes over the number of years. So as you know, Councillor Prager
correctly says the approved scheme may be 50 -odd million, however the phasing of that
particular scheme is more towards the back end of the capital programme. Where we've
got particular schemes, for example, coastal park pleasure, coastal park play centre, that's
in progress, so that scheme's fully approved, separate to the capital budget, the profiling
that has been through members and agreed, and we're following on that line. So the majority
of the capital schemes that have a shorter life,
those profiles are not more accurate,
whereas Lottepool, there's a bit of an exception
where we know what the overall scheme is,
but its profile is slightly different.
Thank you.
Cllr John Wing - 0:52:44
But if we...
Councillor Martin.
Cllr John Wing - 0:52:47
Yeah, thank you.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:52:53
Without going back over the conversation
we had in last week's meeting,
I do remain a bit concerned about some of the leisure strategy numbers in here.
So the 2 .4 for Poston swimming pool, we all want that pool reopened.
It's just whether it has to be us that provides that money and whether there are not other
other options given some of the land that's owned by the charity.
And even if we are to provide the 2 .4 million, I'm still quite wary about how we make sure
that the facility actually remains open and operates in a sustainable way, having spent
quite a lot of our residents' money on it.
I'm also still, and I know work's been done on that,
but just to reemphasize that, that is a concern to me.
And similarly with high swimming pool,
I know swimming pools are expensive to repair
and they're even more expensive to build,
but we have had options for building swimming pools
and one of those better options was closed down
and we don't have a plan B.
and it kind of aggravates me a little bit
that we're potentially going to be spending
six million pounds repairing a swimming pool
when maybe we wouldn't be rushing to spend that money
if we had a new pool being built somewhere.
So it just feels like there's a lot of money
being spent on repairing things
when we could be building something
a bit better for the future.
And when I look at the items that we are putting into here
in terms of new capital items, that's where most of our money's going and I've got quite
a few concerns about that.
Cllr John Wing - 0:54:54
Mr Alan Mitchell - 0:54:55
Okay, Chair, through you.
So I understand the reservations and the points that you're making.
Obviously, as part of the letter strategy, these are the various options that we are
being asked to consider at this moment in time.
So as those future options come forward and we get more clarity
about the various options and the costs associated with that,
then obviously there'd be a lot more further discussion
on those particular elements.
In terms of historical ones, I'm not really in a position
to voice too much of an opinion on that.
All I can do is just say, well, these are the,
in like the current letter strategy,
in kind of the leisure need that we have as part
of that needs assessment, you know, these are the options
that were currently progressing. Thank you.
Cllr John Wing - 0:55:42
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:55:45
Okay, I'm going to offer political and financial come back on those two. Firstly, £2 .4 million
would effectively mean that the largest town in our area has swimming provision, where
it hasn't for the last year, and it's an absolute steal compared with any other option that
we could face. We know that at Prince's Parade, the leisure centre there was around
24 million quid. So for 10 percent of that, we get open and refurbished and with a major
solar array, which will reduce its cost hugely, and get people swimming in that pool in 2026.
The decision to whether we make that grant or not has got to go through. It's got to
go through absolutely the things you've got in terms of contracting, in terms of making
that there is a commitment to ongoing provision of that service, but we couldn't
for 10 times that money, we couldn't make that provision happen any other way.
And I think that there's you're going to have a look at the best value on that.
The same applies to Hy -Fee Pool, politically, at that stage.
As I said, the Princess Parade option was a multiple of millions of pounds of that.
It was 24 million pounds for a new pool in an ex -dump, by the sea.
however, and had massive project risk involved in it, and was going to end up with a 25 -metre
swimming pool with a learner pool, which was not dissimilar in size to what we're looking
at here.
So actually, the options which are going to be come back with, and again, as has been
said, this is within a strategy, it's not a committed decision yet, because we've yet
to see when those, you know, when people come back with a menu with prices, what we can
afford and pick from that menu.
But actually, 6 million pounds to give us another 20 years' life on Hyde Pool compared
to spending 24 million pounds on a swimming pool that would have had 40 years' life
and is still being built in a dump, in a next dump, and had huge capital risk, and
couldn't be delivered for the budget that was set for it, again strikes me as a recent
landing statement, a recent management.
But obviously, those costs and how much that costs will depend what we've got on the
menu.
That would depend on how much reconfiguration is there, and it will also depend
how long, what our appetite for it being closed for a period of time while those
works are.
You'll be able to do more and make something much better in a year than you can in
six months, but are we prepared to accept that?
Where's the limits on that?
So we'll look at those, that detail when that paper comes forward.
But actually, I'd say in terms of value for money, in terms of delivering swimming
to make sure that there is swimming provision as soon as possible in Folkestone
and swimming pool position for as long as possible in Hove, while we're waiting for
potentially other solutions to come online, not a pool, I think that's enormously
good value for money for this Council. Sorry.
Cllr John Wing - 0:58:46
Thank you. Have we got any more questions? Councillor Kelly? Okay, no more questions.
I believe that's all confused again. This is item 8, update the general fund. Medium
term capital? Yeah? Yeah, proposed by the second just proposed by Councillor Martin,
please. Okay, it's counted unanimously. So that was item eight. We're moving on to item

9 Draft Investment Strategy 2026/27

nine now, which is the draught investment strategy. And again, moving over to Jonathan, please.
Jonathan Smith - 0:59:26
Thank you, Chair. So the report before you presents the draught investment strategy for
26 -27. Each year, the council is required to, under the SIPPA potential code and SIPPA
guidance and produce a number of strategies.
One of the three strategies, the other two will follow this particular item, is the investment
strategy which deals with the strategy for commercial investments of the council.
There are a number of recommendations to this report.
The actual strategy itself is appended to the report at appendix one, and there's also
the council's approach to ESG, or Environmental, Social, and Governance considerations for
investments. Those are contained within paragraph 7 of the investment strategy,
and I'm happy to take any questions that you might have on the report.
Cllr John Wing - 1:00:19
Okay, open now for questions.
Cllr John Wing - 1:00:24
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:00:29
Councillor Thomas to start us. Thank you, thank you, Chair. One of the things we were asked to do tonight
as part of this paper is to approve the investment indicators,
which is section eight in appendix one.
Are they significantly different to what has been previously approved?
It must have been approved in previous years,
or are we seeing something as part of that that's relatively new?
That's all, thank you.
Thank you, Chair.
Jonathan Smith - 1:01:01
Just for clarity, obviously, as the Finance Performance Committee, obviously you asked
for comments for Cabinet.
Cabinet will obviously approve the strategy and recommend it to full council where you
have an opportunity to vote for it.
But aside from that, effectively, no, it's not too dissimilar from previous years because
the investment strategies are based on our investments which haven't changed significantly.
So these are similar to what you may have seen previously.
Cllr John Wing - 1:01:26
Any more questions on this item?
Are you OK, Councillor Kelly?
OK.
Right, so that was our two nine draught investment strategy.
OK, so I'm going to invite a proposer to start with.
That's Councillor Kelly and a seconder will be Councillor Martin.
A show of hands.
And that is Councillor Neill, thank you very much.
OK, so now we move on to our...
Sorry, Chair.

10 Draft Capital Strategy 2026/27 And Minimum Revenue Provision Statement 2026/27

Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 1:01:51
My surname is Akufo Kelly.
Akufo.
You can call me Kelly.
Thank you.
Cllr John Wing - 1:01:59
Cllr John Wing - 1:02:00
Okay, moving on to item number 10.
This is the draught capital strategy, 2627, and medium revenue provision statement 2627.
And moving on to Jonathan Smith.
Thank you, Chair.
Jonathan Smith - 1:02:15
So before you is the draught capital strategy 2627 and the minimum revenue provision statement
26, 27. This again is the second of the reports required by the SIP code. It's presented to
you. It talks about the capital strategy and what the capital programme effectively will
be, the programme for the capital works. Key about this report though are the recommendations.
So a change for this year will be on the minimum revenue provision. So at appendix two's report,
you have the minimum revenue provision statement.
That reposes, based on some work that the council
have done this year with its specialist advisors,
a change to the approach to minimum revenue provision.
So moving from a straight line basis to an annuity basis,
which effectively seeks to allocate the MRP,
or minimum revenue provision, in terms of time.
So basically it works that the MRP is lower
in earlier years and then increases as time passes.
So it seeks to align MRP,
probably not the most technical,
I can't explain the most technical way,
but it basically backloads some of the MRP costs
that are associated with,
well, basically costs associated with MRP.
That's a key recommendation from this to take note of,
and obviously that's what will be proposed for Council
to make that decision,
so it applies for the 25, 26 year,
as well as going forwards.
But other than that, I'm happy to take any questions
you might have on either capital strategy
or the MRP statement.
Cllr John Wing - 1:03:51
Okay, do we have any questions on this?
No?
Right, so we can move straight on now.
This is item number 10, the draught capital strategy 2627, revenue provision statement.
And can I have a proposer, please?
That should be Councillor Thomas and seconder Councillor Martin.
And a show of hands, please.
Let's carry it endlessly.

11 Draft Treasury Management Strategy 2026-27

Okay.
So we're moving on to the final item for this evening.
This is item 11.
the draught Treasury Management Strategy.
Thank you, Chair.
Jonathan Smith - 1:04:46
So the final report before you today on the agenda
is the draught Treasury Management Strategy,
the third of the three strategies that are required
each year.
So this is the Treasury Management one,
which deals with the Council's management of its cash flows
effectively, and so it talks about how
it invests cash flows and provides a strategy for that.
There are a couple of appendices to this.
So the key, well actually a single appendix to this,
the appendix one contains treasury management strategy
which includes the credential indicators
and talks about the limits within that.
But the report, the actual strategy itself,
it's just, it outlines how the council is investing
and the indicators that are associated with that.
Again, for recommendation to full council for approval.
I'm happy to take any questions you might have.
Cllr John Wing - 1:05:38
Okay, do we have any questions?
Yes, Councillor Thomas.
Yeah, thank you, Chair.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:05:46
Same question as asked previously really to do with the prudential indicators.
Are they essentially the same as been used in previous years?
Thank you.
Thank you, Chair.
Jonathan Smith - 1:05:59
Where the borrowing hasn't changed particularly much, yes, the indicators will be very similar
to previous years.
Cllr John Wing - 1:06:05
Thank you.
Thank you.
Cllr Connor McConville - 1:06:11
I don't know if you could just share a bit more information about the information in
table one and the strategy itself, looking at a total capital financing requirement of
you know, 20 million more compared to this financial year.
Whereas if you look at the draught budget for next year,
how does that align?
You know, especially the general fund capital financing
requirement, which is, you know, over six million increase
forecast for next financial year
compared to this financial year.
So just some of the assumptions, I guess,
that are taken into that.
and why we're, I mean, it's quite a stark,
you know, difference, I guess,
from last year to this year,
and I know there's a lot of borrowing that's,
you know, the report's very good,
but I didn't know if there's anything more
we can sort of glean out of the technical information
in the report.
Jonathan Smith - 1:07:27
Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillor McCumble. So it's to do with the – it very much ties
to the capital programme and what projects are being funded from the capital programme for
next year. One of those items, I think, is obviously the height pool, so there's a
large amount. I think there's also some borrowing that's required for FLCA 2. So
there's a number of big capital projects that are ongoing, and that's where the movements
are where the borrowing is then going to be required. So any movements in the capital
programme obviously then determine how much borrowing might need to take at a particular
point in time so that can increase obviously the CFR.
Cllr John Wing - 1:08:07
Okay. Do we have any other questions or comments or anything? Okay.
Cllr John Wing - 1:08:18
Thank you.