Council - Wednesday 1 April 2026, 7:00pm - Start video at 0:07:57

Council
Wednesday, 1st April 2026 at 7:00pm

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Start of webcast

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Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Anita Jones
Microphone Forty
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Jeremy Speakman
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Anita Jones
Dr Susan Priest
Cllr Anita Jones

2 Declarations of Interest

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Declarations of Interest

Cllr Jackie Meade
Cllr Anita Jones

3 Minutes

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Minutes , 25/02/2026 Council

Cllr Anita Jones

4 Chair's Communications

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5 Petitions

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6 Questions from the Public

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7 Questions from Councillors

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Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Anita Jones
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Rich Holgate
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Rich Holgate
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Alan Martin
Cllr Mike Blakemore
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Alan Martin
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Mike Blakemore
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
Cllr Mike Blakemore
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Paul Thomas
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Jeremy Speakman
Cllr Paul Thomas
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Tony Cooper
Cllr Jeremy Speakman
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Tony Cooper
Cllr Anita Jones

8 Announcements of the Leader of the Council

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Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Adrian Lockwood
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Anita Jones

9 Portfolio Holder reports to Council

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Portfolio Updates - Council

10 Opposition Business

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11 Motions on Notice

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Motions report v1

Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Paul Thomas
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Stephen Scoffham
Cllr Anita Jones
Dr Susan Priest
Cllr Paul Thomas
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Anita Jones
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Clive Goddard
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Adrian Lockwood
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Tony Cooper
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Alan Martin
Cllr Tim Prater
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr David Wimble
Cllr Anita Jones
Councillor Tony Hills
Dr Susan Priest
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Clive Goddard
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr David Godfrey
Cllr Anita Jones
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Anita Jones

12 Committee Membership - Audit and Governance Committee

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Appt to A and G vacant seat

Cllr Tim Prater
Cllr Anita Jones
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Disclaimer: This transcript was automatically generated, so it may contain errors. Please view the webcast to confirm whether the content is accurate.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:00:00

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:00:01

Microphone Forty - 0:00:09

Good evening. If you would like to join me in prayer, I invite you to respond to all

men after each prayer.

Heavenly Father tonight in a world beset by darkness, we pray laws that your light would

shine all the brighter and illumine our hearts with hope. Give hope to all those whom we

know and represent to those who we will never know, but for whom we share a common humanity

and a common love for our world.

By your grace, Lord, may the darkness never prevail, but your light and the light of our

hearts always shine the brighter.

Amen.

Father, in this season of new life, we give you thanks for the beauty of creation and

all those ecosystems which make up our district. We pray that you would give everyone in our

district a sense of stewardship for creation, that all would be inspired to care for our

natural world and particularly tonight to care for the rivers and marshland of the Romney

harsh and East our Amen. As the Easter storey reminds Christians of Jesus's unending love

for the world and its peoples, we pray that his example of love would inspire us regardless

of our own faith beliefs. Help us to see the value and the worth of every person as all

people bear the divine image. May we always show kindness and compassion, justice and

righteousness to everyone we come across and in our words and deeds. And may Jesus's example

remind us that power is not to be seen in fear, oppression and hate, but in love unbounded.

Amen.

And a blessing for all this Easter.

May Christ, who out of defeat brings new hope and a new future, fill you with his new life.

And may the blessing of God Almighty, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit be with you and among you and all those whom you love today and always.

Amen.

Thank you.

Thank you. Please take seat.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:02:37

Good evening and welcome to the meeting of the full Council. This meeting will be webcast

live to the internet. For those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed, you will need

to leave the chamber. For members, officers and others speaking at the meeting, it is

important that the microphones are used so viewers on the webcast and others in the room

may hear you. Would anyone with a mobile phone please switch it to silent mode as they can

be distracting. I would like to remind members that although we all have strong opinions

on matters under consideration, it is important to treat members, officers and public speakers

with respect. Please feel free to sit or stand when speaking. Before we start on the agenda

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:03:26

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:03:26

this evening, Councillor Laura Davidson has asked if she can say a few words. So, Councillor

Wendy Mitchell,

who was a counsellor between 1997

to early 2003,

passed away last week.

Laura, if you would like to say a few words,

Thank you very much.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:03:42

I am grateful to the chair for allowing me a

few minutes to speak about Wendy Mitchell.

Wendy was first elected

as a local Labour counsellor for the

Shepway District Council,

for the central ward in 1997 by election,

topping the poll

winning 42 % of the vote.

She was re -elected in the normal cycle in 1999

and served as an active ward

Councillor until 2003.

Wendy worked as a probation officer

and she lived in the heart of the ward

at the time

in Kings North Gardens.

Her local basement that she was an active

presence walking all round the ward

and spotting things that needed to be

sorted out.

In her time as an elected

Councillor and beyond,

Wendy made a big difference

major contribution. She was a keen environmentalist and as a new counsellor

advocated for the council to introduce wheelie bins. Eventually the

administration at the time accepted that fact and everyone had the wheelie bins

that we know and love from then on or the Wendy bins as they were sometimes

called. Wendy was involved in the Shetway mediation service. In 98 the council

agreed to a grant to set up and fund a mediation service and Wendy was chosen to be council

representative on the committee and was chair for several years, continuing as secretary

and on the committee until its closure. Wendy played a lead role in a local organisation

close to many of our hearts, HomeStart, Shepway. I asked HomeStart if they would like to share

some words about Wendy and this is what they sent me. Wendy joined HomeStart in 2002 as

a local Councillor and became a trustee in 2005. Over the years, she gave so much of

herself to our organisation and the families we support. When the previous chair stepped

down, Wendy kindly took on the role at a time when we truly needed her. She was a constant

source of strength and reassurance to Sam and the whole team. With her background as

a retired probation officer, she brought not only experience but deep compassion and understanding

challenges many families face.

She cared deeply, listened without judgement and always

stood up for those who needed a voice.

She believed wholeheartedly in our work and her commitment

never wavered.

Even in difficult times, she remained thoughtful,

supported and dedicated.

Although Wendy resigned in March 2021 due to ill health,

her impact will stay with us for a long time.

She has helped shape who we are and her kindness,

wisdom and dedication will not be forgotten.

We are grateful for everything she has given to Homestar.

Wendy herself is a lively, funny person and it was a pleasure to be with her.

She was encouraging and welcoming and always made a point of coming to events and meetings

even when this became more difficult for her.

She was regularly to be seen in the ward long after she was no longer a counsellor, making

her 8am walk from her flat to the co -op or the bridge cafe to collect her copy of the

Guardian newspaper.

On those walks, she would often encounter Councillor

McConville who would help her with shopping and talk about

politics and the town past and present.

She was kind and good company.

She always used to refer back to the 1997 election

as halcyon days and there's no doubt her support

enabled new councillors to be elected in Central Ward.

We're proud to have followed in her footsteps

and I just wanted to share our condolences

with her children and friends on her loss.

Thank you, Chair.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:07:11

Thank you, wonderful words.

Sounds like she was a wonderful lady.

So thank you for sharing that.

OK, so we'll start with the meeting.

Item one on the agenda, apologies for absence.

1 Apologies for Absence

Thank you, Chair.

Dr Susan Priest - 0:07:23

Evening councillors, colleagues and members of the public.

We just have one apologies for absence this evening from Councillor Chapman.

Thank you.

2 Declarations of Interest

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:07:34

Thank you. Item two, declarations of interest.

Councillor Meade.

Yes, thank you, Chair.

Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:07:42

As I am a permanent member of the Environment Agency, I will recuse myself from the motion,

leave the chamber until the debate and the voting has taken place. Thank you.

3 Minutes

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:07:53

Thank you. Anybody else? No, that's fine. So, item 3 to sign the minutes of the meeting

held on the 25th of February, 2026. Are we all happy with the minutes? Are we agreed? Thank you.

4 Chair's Communications

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:08:23

So moving on to item four, the Chair's communications.

So March has been a reasonably busy month.

I was delighted to host youth forums in both Hyth Town Hall and in our Council Chamber

here.

The HIVE Youth Forum involved the five primary schools in the HIVE area, with this year's

theme being well -being and democracy in action.

I particularly enjoyed the young people presenting their manifestos to us at the end of the session,

as it provided a useful insight into what they would prioritise in HIVE if they were

elected.

The District Youth Forum took place here last week, with five of our district secondary

schools represented.

We were able to feed back to the group what we had done as a result of the previous forum,

including sharing the coastal park plans

and the proposed plans for the heighth pool.

We also discussed housing, planning, recycling, safety,

town and culture bid, sports and recreation,

and of course, any other burning questions they had for us.

I've shared the outcomes from our discussions

with all councillors so that you can reflect on them

in your own ward work.

Thank you to Councillors Blakemore,

that's Mike Blakemore, I should have said,

Shubh, Thomas and Butcher for supporting the forum,

and to the fantastic team of officers

who put the event together.

On the cultural side, I've been pleased to attend events

at Strange Cargo and the Folkstone Symphony Orchestra

concert in Holy Trinity Church.

The mayor of Maidstone invited me to the Maidstone Museum,

along with the Kent District and Borough mayors and chairs.

I also supported the mayor of Seven Oaks,

the mayor of Favisham, and the mayor of Folkstone

with their fundraising events.

Last Saturday, I was delighted to visit Canterbury Cathedral

with my Chaplain, Reverend Michael Darkins.

Michael and I were pleased to discuss our roles in the council

with Archbishop Sarah and to attend her diocesan

welcome service.

I was proud that our district was represented in the service

by the St Leonard's Church Youth Choir,

who sang a beautiful anthem near the start of the service.

Thank you.

So item five on the agenda, petitions.

5 Petitions

We don't have any petitions

and we don't have any public questions.

6 Questions from the Public

7 Questions from Councillors

So moving on to item seven, Councillor questions.

We have eight questions from members set out on your desks.

So you're invited to read your question

and then if you have an appropriate supplementary question,

we will read that as well.

That cannot be a statement.

So our first question this evening

is from Councillor Hills to Councillor Jim Martin.

Thank you, Chair.

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:11:02

Would the leader agree that this Council must put pressure on the Environment Agency and

Natural England to change the shoreline management plan as SMP 11, section 4C14 lid ranges from

managed realignment to hold the line as a matter of urgency to protect the town of Lid

and the wider Wamini Marsh from Fergie.

Councillor Martin.

Thank you very much, Chair,

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:11:34

and thank you for your question, Councillor Hills.

I certainly agree.

We should positively engage to agree

with the Environment Agency the best possible solution

in what is an evolving situation,

driven of course by climate change,

as you often remind us.

Officers are aware that the Environment Agency is considering updating the Shoreline Management

Plan, SMP 11, for lid ranges.

I asked officers to get in touch with the Environment Agency who have confirmed that

they are considering some minor changes to SMP 11, although we are not yet sure what

these are.

Officers at the Environment Agency are hoping to discuss the necessary changes with the relevant organisations

before the summer South East Coastal Group meeting.

So at that meeting the group can approve the changes.

Once we are aware of the proposed changes, I am happy to engage further with the Environment Agency

I would just note that your email to me today actually updated us somewhat on that situation.

Thank you again.

Do you have a related question?

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:12:55

No.

Thank you.

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:13:04

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:13:04

Question two is from Councillor Rich Holgate to Councillor Jim Martin.

Good evening, leader.

Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:13:09

Given the concerning rise of the visit rhetoric surrounding migration at the county level,

Doesn't the leader agree that Folkestone and Hyde

should instead lead with compassion

and align with our values of equality and inclusion

by committing to the principles

of the District of Sanctuary Scheme?

Councillor Martin.

Thank you very much, Chair,

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:13:29

and thank you very much for your question,

Councillor Holgate.

Folkestone and Hyde has a long tradition

of supporting people in need.

I recognise the concerns about divisive rhetoric

around migration and agree that our district should continue to demonstrate

positive leadership that values compassion, inclusion and our shared

community values. The principles of the District of Sanctuary framework are

centred on creating a welcoming environment for people seeking safety,

ensuring fair access to services and working constructively with local partners, voluntary organisations and communities.

These principles closely align with how this Council already delivers its services and with our general duties to promote equality and support community cohesion.

I welcome the opportunity to explore this further and will ask officers to examine the

implications of working towards recognition under the District of Sanctuary model, including

how it complements work already undertaken locally.

Thank you.

Do you have a related question?

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:14:54

I do, thank you, Chair.

Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:14:56

Thank you so much, Jim, and hugely appreciated.

As officers examine the implications of this,

will the leader ensure that they actively engage

with our local voluntary groups,

who as you say embody these sanctuary principles

every single day, and doing so that makes sure

application is shaped by those actually doing

the work on the ground?

Councillor Martin.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:15:17

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:15:19

The simple answer is yes, but what I would emphasise

is that the contribution that local voluntary groups

make is enormous. Often, although we are accredited with delivering particular services, our role

is coordinating the work of the voluntary sector. I will be most happy to comply with

everything in your supplementary.

Thank you.

Question three from Councillor Alan Martin to Councillor Mike Blakemore.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:15:57

Thank you, Chair.

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:16:03

Following my premature question last month, I note that the Cabinet has now made the decision

to award a grant of $2 .4 million to support the reopening of Folkestone swimming pool.

This was also included, of course, within the budget decision at full Council.

Can Councillor Blakemore explain the level of detail the Council has seen or will as

part of due diligence ahead of finalising contracts with regards to the business plan

that demonstrates that the pool can be reopened and run on a sustainable basis.

Councillor Blakemore.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you very much for the question.

Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:16:34

Councillor Martin, I'll attempt to answer the points you raise.

The Cabinet report on the grant agreement summarised the information received in advance

of the report being prepared. This included the business plan received from the Sports

Trust for reopening Folsom Sports Centre, as well as other background information that

supported the Business Plan or the project generally.

This included, in detail, the Folsom Sports Centre Business Plan prepared in July 2025.

This was provided on a commercially confidential basis and included an analysis of local demand,

historic trading, trading options for all sports activities, cost analysis and a five -year

income projection showing the sports centre moving to a positive operating balance by

year two or three, depending on options followed. The formal funding request received from the

Sports Trust in October 2025, the construction programme timeline prepared by the consultant's

BLM, this has been revised as the project is developed with the latest version dated

6th of March, 25.

Expected cash flow or payment schedule

for the programme split by individual projects.

The most recent published public accounts

for the Sports Trust for the 12 month period

ending August 2024.

Additionally, council officers met with the Sports Trust

and consultants to review plans

and complete a site visit on the 23rd of February,

a meeting which I attended later that day.

Information to be provided for the ongoing monitoring

of the grant will include the next set of public accounts

expected at the start of May for the period up to August 2025,

any revisions to the business plan,

provision of procurement information related to the selection of contractors,

monitoring of the works as they are completed,

provision of invoices or other financial records

for each sub -project before payment is made,

and after the sports centre is reopened,

attendance figures for the swimming pools,

including use by schools, other community groups,

clubs and lessons.

I hope this answers your question.

Sorry.

And would you like to have a supplementary question?

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:18:49

First of all, thank you for that really detailed answer.

I really, really appreciate that.

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:18:55

Within the information that's been shared,

Have we seen or do we expect to see before we finalise contracts?

What new income streams and land sales the sports trust will need to find the additional

two million pounds needed to fully open up the sports centre and to run the facilities

you describe?

And do we know from their business case the extent to which the refurbished equipment

which we are funding, and the solar panels and so on

will protect the sports centre

from fluctuating utility costs.

Councillor BlaKE -Mann.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:19:37

Yes, indeed.

Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:19:42

So land sales do feature in the plans of the sports trust,

and we will have more detail on that later,

because when that emerges as to how much they need to raise,

that will obviously affect what those land sales look like.

The extent to which the refurbished solar panels

will protect them really depends,

it's a bit difficult to say at the moment,

because it depends how much they fluctuate,

but definitely the new plant, the solar panels

will make it much more efficient.

And obviously the conflict in Iran at the moment

is also causing some concern in the energy market,

but the business plan that the trust presented

is over a five year period, so they are looking long term.

Clearly, we don't know what the impact of the conflict will have.

And the Business Plan acknowledges that there are commercial risks, and that's why we have

broken down the project into stages, and we've included clawback clauses as a fallback throughout.

Thank you.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:20:40

So question four from Councillor Mrs Jenny Hollingsby to Councillor Jim Martin.

Thank you, Chair.

Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:20:49

On the new time limited ottapel park collaboration agreement with Holmes England and a two million

injection of match funding from the council, what is the expected outcome of this agreement?

Councillor Martin.

Thank you very much chair and thank you for your question Councillor Hollingsby.

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:21:15

I've got two parts to this answer.

First of all, I will read my prepared answer,

then I will add some words that Holmes England

have sent me to add to my answer.

So obviously I know from your long history

supporting the project that you remain

I'm acutely interested and committed to seeing

the scheme delivered and I am grateful to you for that.

The agreement with Homes England you are referring to

is the Planning Collaboration Agreement.

Just about to go off -piece here now.

So the original was the, our collaboration agreement

was essentially for Homes England to establish

the viability of Otterpool.

So that's what we were working on

under that collaboration agreement.

This now is a different agreement,

the planning collaboration agreement.

This matter went through the dedicated

Otterpool Park overview and scrutiny working group

on the 30th of October, 2025,

to overview and scrutiny on the 25th of November, 2025,

and to the cabinet on the 10th of December, 2025.

Links to those meetings with supporting documents

remain available online and the five pages

which contain the heads of terms

that formed the basis of the agreement

are publicly available for a detailed review.

This document details the expected outcomes

in some detail, which means I won't have to go through it all

and bore everyone to tears.

In terms of the overall outcome, however,

you will read that the parties are seeking to secure

outline planning approval for the Otterfield Park application.

This will reflect the principles of the planning

and delivery strategy to secure planning permission,

including the section 106 on this application.

You will recall, Councillor Hollingsby,

that you and I were both on that planning committee

that resolved to grant permission to Otterball Park

and that is the current planning status.

Otterball Park has resolution to grant.

It was the resolution that that planning committee gave.

We have not, for many reasons, been able to move that forward in agreeing the section

106 agreement to achieve outline planning.

And the planning collaboration agreement is set up specifically to achieve that end.

Now this is what Holmes England are saying about your question.

The Planning Collaboration Agreement enables the Council and the LLP to access Homes England's

skills and expertise necessary to bring forward a high quality scheme at Otterfield Park.

As part of the Collaboration Agreement, Fyke'son High District Council and Homes England have

agreed a scope of activities up to December 2026, which seek to achieve housing delivered

at Otterpool Park within this parliament. Homes England have acquired additional land

within the identified Otterpool Park site to support this and strengthened the commitment

to working with Fobesdon High District Council

to progress the development.

Chair, I do have more words to say about this

in my announcements, so if you're happy with that,

I'll leave it at that, Councillor Hollingsby.

Did you have a supplementary question?

I will do, I will do.

I mean, thank you very much indeed for that detailed answer,

It is good news to hear that from Homes England.

It is a timescale also that I am concerned about.

Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:25:55

December 26, are we going to meet that timescale?

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:26:01

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:26:03

There will be no lack of effort on our part, believe me.

The amount of work that officers and in particular our chief executive has contributed to getting

as far as we have at the moment is immense, but we are all well aware that the real work

will probably start now. So there will be a significant impact, but we will engage and

we will seek to manage it.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:26:36

Question number five from Councillor Mrs Jenny Hollingsby to Councillor Mike Blaientmore.

Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:26:48

Thank you, Chair. Are there any planned or unplanned urgent works required for Hyth pool

prior to its closure for redevelopment or refurbishment?

Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:26:59

Councillor Blakemore. Thank you for your question, Councillor

Huddingsby. It's difficult to say if urgent works will be needed at Hyth pool prior to

its closure for refurbishment. Only last week there was a problem with water getting behind

the pool lining which is now happily resolved.

There will be routine maintenance but no major works are planned prior to the pool's closure.

But we will of course give the public and clubs as much notice as possible of any further

urgent works that are likely to impact on the availability of the pool prior to refurbishment.

Do you have a supplementary question?

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:27:29

Thank you for that response.

It was a lining I was completely concerned about because it had been reported to me that

Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:27:39

it was leaking.

So I'm pleased that it has been repaired,

but it isn't probably an ongoing problem

that we have to face.

So did you, you didn't have another question?

Okay, thank you.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:27:52

So moving on to question six,

Councillor Paul Thomas to Councillor Jeremy Speakman.

Yeah, thank you, Chair.

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:28:02

Currently, New Romney High Street is included

in section 2A of the street cleaning schedule,

whereas many areas of Folkestone are in section Z,

as is High Street, the high street,

and they benefit from a higher level of service.

New Romney residents and High Street business owners

are concerned that this lower level of service

is having a negative impact on High Street businesses.

Can the cabinet member give consideration

to elevating New Romney High Street from level 2A

to level Z to make the area cleaner

and more attractive to regular users and visitors?

Thank you.

Councillor Spickman.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:28:36

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:28:38

Yes, good evening, Councillor Thomas, and thank you very much for your question.

Yeah, it is worth noting that the zoning of the streets for general cleansing purposes

is often related more to the expected intensity of use rather than a difference of standards.

In other words, different areas require different levels of intervention to bring them up to the same standard.

I will of course ask the waste team to consider your request and if necessary obtain cost

of options. Looking to the future, the council will shortly be starting work on the next

waste and street cleansing contract which will involve a wider review of the street

cleansing.

Do you have a supplementary question?

Thank you very much for the answer.

Moving on to question 7 from Councillor Paul Thomas to Councillor Jim Martin.

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:29:34

Will this council urge Kent County Council, who administer Kent Pension Fund, to ascertain

the views of scheme members and to review its investment strategy and responsible investment

policy, including those of border to coast in which the fund's assets are pooled and

and to ensure it is not funding human rights abuses or breaches of international law and

is exposed to the associated financial risk.

Thank you.

Councillor Martin.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:30:00

Thank you for your question, Councillor Thomas.

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:30:08

I am very happy to write to the county council and ask the questions outlined specifically

in your question.

and yes, we will call upon them to make their investments as ethical as their members and the legal frameworks around pensions and investment allows.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:30:28

Do you have a supplementary question? No. Okay, so we're going to move on to question 8 from Councillor Tony Cooper to Councillor Jeremy Speakman.

Thank you, Chair.

Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:30:37

Councillor Speakman, the district is looking rather shabby, and this is the result of lack of road maintenance and weeds playing by reform of the Kent County Council.

Can you please explain what steps both of them have taken to address this and when can

residents expect to see positive changes regarding the elimination of pavements and roadside

weeds?

Thank you.

Councillor Speedman.

Yes, good evening Councillor Cooper and thank you very much for your question.

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:30:59

I do share your concerns about the general lack of road maintenance which frankly seems

to have got worse but as I'm sure you appreciate this is of course a matter for KCC.

Specifically, in terms of pavement weeds, Kent Highways arranges for two annual weed

sprays of the adopted highways in the district.

And the district council then arranges for Violetta to dig them out.

As Council COO is aware, last year there were definite problems with the first weed spray

with whole streets or areas missed and problems with getting Kent's contractor to return.

This in turn had a knock -on effect that meant that Veolia were regularly attempting to dig out weeds that were unsprayed, very much alive and deep -rooted, and this threw them off their schedule.

This was duly escalated to highways and eventually directly to the KCC portfolio holder, and the second weed spray later in the year did proceed on a better basis.

As they did last year, the waste team will liaise with highways to get a spraying schedule in advance so that the services can be coordinated.

This year, I am also pleased to report that the Council has purchased for use on the contract two new mini road sweepers that have an improved weed removal capability, which will also help matters. Thank you.

Thank you. And do you have a supplementary question?

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:32:24

Thank you for the answer.

Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:32:27

Thank you.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:32:29

That brings us to the end of the questions.

We will move on to item 8 on our agenda.

Announcements of the leader of the Council.

8 Announcements of the Leader of the Council

As always, we have 10 minutes for the leader and then five minutes for each opposition

response followed by the leader's rush of reply.

Councillor Jim Martin.

Thank you very much, Chair.

Good evening, members.

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:32:53

Happy Easter to everyone.

So just starting off with an update on Storm Garotti.

Just to update members, the unexpected repair bill to us for Storm Garotti

currently stands at £117 ,000, excluding the Mermaid Beach rock revetment,

which is still being assessed.

I am happy to confirm that our expression of interest in competing for the title of

the UK Town of Culture was submitted yesterday to meet the deadline.

I will arrange for all members to have sight of the document.

I am grateful to the many individuals and organisations who have assisted us in the

competition and I am particularly grateful to both Councillors Blakemore and Butcher

who worked with our excellent officers to make the submission.

The consultation on local government reorganisation has closed and I hope everyone was able to

express their view.

We held an excellent meeting of the LGR working group last week and I am grateful to the members

who participated and expressed their views.

The government have informed our neighbours, Essex, Sussex, Hampshire, of their preferred

geography with Surrey, having been informed last month.

Members will have taken on board their own information, but as I understand it, Hampshire

are happy, Essex are considering legal action and the decision on Sussex has been deferred

to allow further consultation to take place.

An expression of interest was submitted by 13 of

the 14 councils in Kent for a foundation strategic authority,

an FSA, to be created as a first step in Kent and Medway

having devolved powers and funding streams.

I was happy to add my name to the majority view

that supported the expression of interest,

with just the KCC leader refusing to support the submission.

With regard to these developments,

a local government reorganisation

and the foundation strategic authority,

I shall keep you all updated

as more information becomes available.

I know you can't wait, but.

I was very happy to attend the Kent Association of Local Councils to speak on the topic of

local government reorganisation, specifically to discuss the impact of LGR on town and parish

councils.

I was delighted to be invited to meet with the Romney Marsh partnerships to join discussions

regarding the economic future for Romney Marsh. As always, a robust discussion was underpinned

with knowledge and urgency.

Otterfield Park is at a critical stage. The meetings, discussions and communications with

Holmes England are quite intense and much is being discussed.

I am sure the council will understand when I say there are a number of those discussions

that Holmes England do not want me to repeat in public at this stage, but let me say this.

I am more confident about the delivery of the Otipool project now than I was last year

Indeed, I am more confident about the delivery of the Otipool project than I was last week.

I realise members will be frustrated by my guarded comments and I fully understand.

I will be convening the Otipool Park Working Group shortly to update the Working Group

first and then it is my intention to hold an Otipool Park briefing when I will be able

to explain to members without being tied

by too much confidentiality.

Our armed forces, I was delighted to host

so many individuals and organisations

at the Chariton Nepalese Centre

to join with our council to discuss the problems

facing our armed forces, their families, and veterans.

The intention was to have an open and honest discussion and to get people across all agencies

to maybe think outside their silos.

I am grateful to all of the organisations who attended.

I am also very grateful to the Nepalese Centre who hosted the event so well and our brilliant

officers who managed to organise a truly wonderful, thought -provoking agenda, keep us all on time

and provide a rather nice lunch,

which I have learned is a very important detail

when you're dealing with ex -service personnel.

With regard to the folks in the leisure centre,

I was very pleased to accept an invitation

to visit the folks in the leisure centre

and witness the works in progress.

There is much to do, but I am told

that the swimming pool will be reopened

mid -summer this year.

Sadly, we were updated today that there was a break -in last night into the swimming pool

and there was a lot of what's been described as mindless vandalism.

The building's been re -secured and the works will carry on regardless.

The District Council Network Conference.

I attended the District Council's Network Conference.

The organisation renamed itself in the opening session to the local councils network.

Naturally, there was a great deal of discussion regarding local government reorganisation in the formal sessions,

but there was also a great deal of discussion in the informal conversations.

It was comforting to me hearing that so many councils are often feeling as confused as we are about the process.

My discussions with Southern Water continue, supported excellently by our officers. We

have constructed several key questions for Southern Water for them to answer at our next

stakeholders meeting. I will be happy to circulate these questions to members if required.

With regard to attendances, I've attended the Kent Leadership Meeting, attended the

Kent Leaders Agenda Setting Meeting, the East Kent Leadership Meeting, I've attended meetings

with developers and businesses from across the district.

This council is a friend to good business.

I met with both of our MPs, I've met with environmental campaigners, heritage groups

and hoteliers.

I also attended an excellent meeting on how to increase the tree canopy in Kent, including

introducing disease resistant elms along the Royal Military Canal.

Thank you.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:40:42

So we're going to hand over to Councillor Lockwood for his opposition response.

Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 0:40:45

Thank you, Chair.

And thank you, Lisa.

Particularly for all the work you do, meeting with lots of various groups across the district,

and particularly the armed forces who at this very difficult world moment are critical to

the safety of this country.

And we obviously support, we all support them.

And I appreciate you can't say much about Otterpool at this point, other than to thank

you and the officers for the tremendous, phenomenal amount of work that's going into trying to

get some new homes up and running before the end of this Parliament. And if we could see

that, that would be an amazing achievement. So we look forward to more information when

you're able to share it with us. Thanks for that.

LGR, the DCN becoming the LCN, and the update from the ALC, and your update on the FSA.

Lots of TLAs.

And as you said, probably a lot of confusion.

And it'd be interesting to see Surrey and our colleagues in Sussex having three unitaries

that was smaller than three unitaries we're proposing in Kent. The government

saying that they're too big and also the government looking at potential boundary

changes in the Norfolk unitaries to make the councils more even and to sort out some

issues from the 1970s set up. So I know this council collectively supported 3A

but I'll just remind you all other models are available and we'll see where that all ends up.

So the Sports Centre, very sad to hear, I was also invited to for a tour which was then cancelled

because the police hadn't given the pool area back from it being a crime scene. So I don't think it

last night, I think it happened a few days ago,

and that was why my visit was cancelled.

Very sad and mindless damage and destruction to our pool,

and that will just set back plans to open it,

but I spoke to the Sports Trust,

and they're confident they'll be open again in the summer,

and there'll be more information coming later this month.

Fingers crossed.

And then I'll just finish, keep this brief, finish on the submission for the town of Culture.

And again, a lot of work has gone into that.

And as a member of staff at Creative Folkestone for seven years, I appreciate how much effort

and money and investments gone into Culture in this town in the last 20, 25 years around

and the Triennial and Book Festival,

and the support for all the other creative organisations

across the district.

And I just think the key to this is gonna be

using the cultural base that's been established in this town

which is now used as a model across the country,

the Folkestone model for regeneration through culture.

and this council leading on that bid

with access to the bits of our residents,

the people that have been very difficult to reach,

that this council talks to on a daily basis

through the services we provide.

And if we can make that connexion

between the cultural base that's already there

and the cohort that we work with on a daily basis,

then we can win this bid.

And whether we win it or not,

We should be doing that anyway as a council. Thank you.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:44:57

Thank you. So we'll hand over to Councillor Mrs Jenny Hollingsby for her opposition response.

Thank you very much indeed and thank you, Lida, for your report.

Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:45:06

I'd just like to agree totally with what Councillor Lott would have said on the counterculture.

So I'm not going to mention anything else, but absolutely right and agree with you.

Local government reorganisation, oh gosh, what a mess, isn't it?

So much work for our officers.

I would like to thank our officers for all the work they are putting into it.

Because I know it is just never -ending.

Of course, things are changing all the time.

We are sitting and waiting now for a result of who we might partner with.

It could be, by the sounds of Surrey, with anybody.

It could be all over the place.

So, I mean, we could be with Swale, for instance,

and what have we got in common with Swale?

But, you know, we will just have to wait and see.

But there is still so much work to do, so much work.

And when July comes, I think we've got two weeks

in order to sort ourselves out as to different groups,

11 groups that might be set up or will be set up

or already been set up to do some of that work.

So, you know, I think we just need to bear with our officers and perhaps not give them too much more work than we need to give them.

Ottecal, just like to make a comment that the planning meeting, it was only the Conservatives who voted for it.

And independent.

Sorry David, sorry I wouldn't miss you out for the world.

But I'm really, really pleased to hear the update that you've given us tonight.

I mean that's what I've been pressing for, is something to happen, to know what's going on and to actually have a view now as to how we move ahead.

I'm still worried about the timescale, but actually knowing that Homes England are actually on board now

makes a lot of difference

and we need to keep them on board.

And I look forward to hearing more of the confidential information that we're not privy to tonight.

Leisure centre, yes, I spoke to them over the weekend and I was really disappointed to

to hear of the vandalism that had taken place.

It's certainly not what we want,

and it's certainly not what we expect

for an organisation trying to open, excuse me,

a swimming pool that is desperately required

for this district.

There was something else I was gonna write.

I know your comment with regards to the southern water,

and of course that's an ongoing issue all the time.

And thank you again for what you do for the district.

And my thanks go to all the officers again.

Thank you.

So I'll pass back to Councillor Jim Martin

for your right of reply.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:48:23

Thank you very much.

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:48:28

I wouldn't disagree with either comments from anyone.

I think particularly poignant was Councillor

Lockwood's comments which Councillor Hollingsbury, you completely agreed with as I do.

I think the galvanising effect that we've had just on the expression of interest, I

think it is a ball that we've now picked up and it's worth running with.

And I think there's a lot we can do regardless of whether we get shortlisted or not.

So very happy with that.

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you.

So we need a proposer.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:49:04

Councillor Martin and somebody to second.

Councillor Craitor.

Are we all agreed?

I am.

Thank you.

9 Portfolio Holder reports to Council

Moving on to item 9, portfolio holder reports, which are in your pack.

I hope you all had the time to read them.

Thank you again to all of our cabinet members who work so hard for us on our behalf.

Thank you for detailing all your work in there.

10 Opposition Business

We are going to move on to item 10, opposition business.

We don't have any again.

So we're going to move on to item 11, motions on notice.

11 Motions on Notice

And we have one motion from the conservative group,

and this is going to be introduced by Councillor Hills.

So Councillor Hills.

Thank you, Chair.

Right, I hope you've had a chance to read

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:49:52

and study the motion.

In presenting this, I'd like to praise the leader

for his efforts in tackling water pollution

in our district.

But I believe that this council needs to go further

and demand they have answers and solutions

to our ongoing pollution problems.

Sadly, we have made little progress with Southern Water,

an environment agency, but not for the lack of trying.

So this motion demands, as a matter of urgency,

that we contact all relevant partners, including here,

to form a water testing partnership

to include this district's pollution,

to identify this difference in pollution problems.

I have, for example,

contacted the Kentistow Countryside Partnership,

who are happy to support and get involved.

I've also spoken to Dr. Ian Goodall,

an enthusiastic supporter of citizen science,

an expert in this field,

head of STUMP, Stow Monitoring Projects.

In my ward of Robyn Marsh,

Dim Church Beach has again, in my opinion,

unfairly being designated by the EA as recommended no bathing for this year. So we need to take

urgent action to protect our rivers, marginal water environments and our coastal waters.

So I urge you all to please support this motion.

Thank you and who's going to second this? Councillor Godfrey and would you like to speak?

Okay, so this is now open for debate.

Are you wanting to speak, Councillor Thomas?

Yeah, thank you, Chair.

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:51:33

I have, sorry, I have put forward a minor amendment

to this which has been circulated to members.

So again, in part one of the proposal,

I've asked that after matri -vergency,

the commissioning of an independent report

to identify the relevant water courses

and propose the optimum sampling locations

prior to FHD offices setting up cost adoptions,

et cetera, et cetera.

And then in part two, after E. coli,

to add intestinal enterococci,

and then after other indicators to put traces

and human faecal contamination.

I agree in principle with the motion proposed

by Councillor Hills, and I spoke to Councillor Hills

on Sunday about it.

However, commissioning an expert report

prior to proposing any testing programme

will ensure re -sampling at the correct locations

to identify human faecal contamination.

We need to ensure the science behind any testing

we carry out is robust, and the data we collect

must be as good, if not better, than that collected

by Southern Water and the Environment Agency.

This will give us the opportunity to challenge

and better cooperate with both organisations.

Just two days ago, the Environment Agency report on Southern Water

noted that inspections reveal poor maintenance,

issues with discharge sample and discharge points,

which were often in inaccessible areas or unknown to the operators.

Southern Water are a beleaguered organisation

that must pick its battles, and the battle it's chosen in the South East

is to protect the shellfish in Whitsville Bay,

rather than the bathers in Little Stone, St Mary's Bay and Dim Church.

We should also remember that for Little Stone, it is intestinal enterococci

that is the dominant coliform, as it has a lower action level than that of E. coli

when determining bathing water quality.

The EA have consistently pointed to seabird droppings, dog waste and other items

as the reason for poor bathing water quality.

However, Southern Water have acknowledged in our recent meetings

that the poor water quality is down

to human faecal matter contamination,

the source of which is unexplained.

As we know from input we've had from acknowledged experts,

there are other markers for human faecal contamination

we can look at, such as caffeine and ibuprofen.

I believe the work we do in this area

will form part of the Citizen Science Programme,

as Councillor Hills has already identified,

and help the overall understanding

of the bathing water quality issues

across the whole of the district

to help Southern Water and the Environment Agency

to put the correct actions in place

to prevent further degradation of our bathing waters.

And I propose the amendment as printed, thank you.

Thank you, and do we have anybody who might like to second?

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:54:21

Councillor Scoffin, sorry, Councillor Scoffin was in first.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:54:28

Did you want to speak on this?

Yes, I did.

Okay, thank you.

Yes, I would, thank you very much.

Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:54:35

I welcome this motion. There are lots of us in this room who probably watch the drama documentary, Dirty Business.

And I know lots of people across the entire district have watched it and have been rightly outraged by that programme.

The ticket tape at the end, which ran across the screen, summarised a few key points.

One of them that they were the only country in the world to have a privately managed public water system.

And every other country regards it therefore as the duty of government rather than the duty of business.

So that's a pretty big headline.

There was some, I'm certain they would have talked to their lawyers, but they also on that ticket talked about the way in which sewage, there was money in sewage, big money in sewage.

They also talked about parallels with organised crime.

That struck me as a particularly outspoken position to take,

but absolutely justified by the continual and ongoing discharge of sewage into our seas and rivers.

So there's a lot to be very cross about and we are very cross about it.

Since I've been elected, I know we have been doing our very best to put Southern Water under whatever pressure we can,

and to talk to the Environment Agency and to take strong action and to hold their feet to the fire.

So thank you very much for bringing this motion to us today.

One of the things which I wanted to pick up on is that we don't have any direct powers,

over Southern Water or the Environment Agency.

So it requires cooperation.

And the leader mentioned the stakeholder meetings,

which are ongoing and which are at least

a channel of communication.

But one of the things which I'm a little bit worried

about here is the Citizen Science

and the initiatives around citizen science.

It's a good title, isn't it, Citizen Science?

It's pretty appealing.

But it might be, and we're sceptical and cynic,

I think we need to be sceptical and cynical.

Just to hold that, the sceptical and cynic might say,

is this fobbing people off?

You've got action groups, they want to do something,

they're banging on the door.

OK, let them make tests, let them do things.

We're not going to take any notice of it, but let them do it.

Citizen science might be seen in that light.

And certainly in the discussions which I've sat in,

I have the impression, modern impression,

I've heard it said repeatedly that the only valid results

are the EA results, which they know where they've sampled

them from, they've sampled them in whatever way they think

is relevant and valid and robust, and then they process them

and got the results.

So they only accept their findings.

So what is the status of any outside body, whether it's

an environment group or ourselves, doing sampling?

I fully accept your amendment to Councillor Thomas.

I think it tightens it up and adds things to it.

It is about 60 words, the first part of the amendment.

Quite a long sentence.

I want to add to it.

If we can bear this.

I wonder whether Councillor Thomas would accept a few additional words.

I think before we ask our officers to undertake further work and expense,

quite considerable expense at a time when both expense and further work is particularly unwelcome,

we don't want to add to their burden.

We don't want to add to their burden, so shall we cheque, can we cheque before we do this that

the Environment Agency will take notice of the results that we come up with, whatever

they may be?

And so I suggest, I don't know if we can do this in the Chamber or whether we need to

talk in an adjournment, but I wonder whether we could request or I could put forward a

I'll just run it past you.

Request the cabinet investigate rather than bring forward

so we could investigate as a matter of urgency,

read on line three and to propose

the optimum sampling locations

which the AEA will regard as valid.

If we know that, then we tie them down.

If they don't accept it,

then we've got a lot of ammunition there.

That phrase, confirming that the EA regardless is valid, should also come in on the fourth line,

a targeted water testing programme which the EA will accept as valid.

So I put that as a suggestion, as a way of making this amendment more effective

and making the motion more effective and making more than 60 words unafraid,

but still comprehensible, I hope. Thank you.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:59:55

Thank you. If you could just give me a moment.

Dr Susan Priest - 1:00:19

So what we are going to do is read out the proposed amendment with the amended amendment.

I couldn't make this up.

And then obviously, Councillor Thomas needs to decide

whether he's happy with it because he put in the amendment.

Is that correct?

So members, there's been an amendment made

by Councillor Thomas that was proposed as an amendment

and in seconding that, you are suggesting the addition of

and the deletion of a word and I'll read it out.

So it's requested cabinet investigate.

As a matter of urgency, the commissioning of an independent report to identify the relevant

water courses and to propose the optimum sampling locations, which the environment agency will

consider as valid, prior to HFDC officers setting out costed options for a targeted

water testing programme, which the EA will regard as valid, covering major open sewers and connected

watercourses on Romney Marsh and within the East Stour catchment.

And number two is as proposed.

So the question for the proposal of the amendment is whether you are accepting that,

and then that becomes then what is open then for debate as an amendment.

Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:01:45

As I said in my words, I think it's absolutely imperative that whatever we do is robust and

accepted by Southern Water Environment Agency.

So I'm more than happy to accept Councillor Scotland's amendment to my amendment.

Thank you.

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:02:16

So, Councillor Hills, are you happy to accept the amendment?

No, OK.

So, what we are going to be doing is we are going to be debating the amendment, the amended

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:02:23

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:02:23

version and then we will vote on that. So I think I had Councillor Goddard

initially down to speak.

Cllr Clive Goddard - 1:02:38

Yeah apologies chair I want to speak on Councillor Hill's first before the amendment of the amendment of the amendment.

Because the amendment is not what I want to speak on.

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:02:45

Sorry we are debating the amended the amendment.

I want to explain I want to talk about not the amendment.

Well you've got to do it now.

That's fine.

So, would anybody like to speak on the amendment?

Councillor Lockwood.

Thank you, Chair.

Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 1:03:00

Yes, we agree with everything that's been said about concerns of water quality.

We share those concerns and many of us have seen that horrific drama programme and join

fellow councillors in wanting to do something about it.

and we want to see action,

and we want to do everything we can from this council.

My concern is, that I share with Councillor

Mrs. Hollingsby, is that the burden on this council,

in what will probably be the busiest year in its history,

as it seeks to create a plan to dissolve itself,

we need to be very careful what,

if we are proposing extra work for officers,

and of course this is not costed

and not accounted for in the budget,

so that would need to come at the expense

of something else that we planned to spend money on.

So unless, I mean, I can't see the point

in spending officer time and money

on creating indefatigable scientific evidence

that Southern Water are at fault here, there and everywhere,

for our leader to go to another meeting,

present this evidence and be ignored again for another year.

So that for me is a waste of time and money,

so I wouldn't support the motion as it stood,

but with the amendments, with the EA validation

and the extra science that Councillor Thomas has put in,

I would support it.

Thank you.

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:04:45

Anybody else like to speak on the amendment?

Councillor Hollingsby.

Councillor Hill's had his hand up before me.

No, all right.

Sorry.

Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 1:04:58

That's okay.

I wanted to agree totally with what Councillor Lutt was saying, but I would still support

the original motion because we were talking about dates.

We have to debate the amendment at this stage and then we will vote on that and then if

that falls we will then go back to the original motion.

I don't understand that.

That is just how we have to have this debate.

I totally understand.

I was only just mentioning that I'd spoken to officers

about the urgency or the date,

we've actually put in a date first of all,

but changed it to urgency.

So changing the game, the word to investigation

or that I think makes it as though it is more urgent.

And I would refer people to 3 .2 in the report

of the cost and the officer's time.

I'm like Councillor Lockwood has said,

so I'm really quite concerned about that.

And I felt the original, I don't think,

I think this adds more work to the original motion.

And I don't think that that's,

at this particular stage, right.

Thank you.

Before Councillor Hill speaks,

because you have the right to speak at the end of this part,

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:06:34

have we got anybody else?

Oh, Councillor Cooper.

Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:06:41

Thank you, Chair. Can I just add members that Councillor Hills, Thomas, the leader, Councillor Martin and myself have attended numerous community meetings with both the environment agency and Southern Water.

The Council leader is appearing back at least three or four times in respect of, for example, the Hamptons Street discharge point and we're getting nowhere.

This amendment by Councillor Thomas actually strengthens the original motion put forward

by Councillor Pills because it gives us some teeth to go back to both the Environment Agency

and Silden Water and say, look, this is the situation, we can tell you at such and such

a point this is what is happening.

Because when we go into these meetings, they are vague.

Student water, for example, we've had a storm overflow,

but it's not affected the beaches.

The management agency, well, on the beaches itself,

it could well be burned, could be dug,

or anything else.

And after three and a half years, you still don't know.

Now I feel if we do what this motion suggests,

and get the experts in, and we've got experts

on our side then, we've got actually a bit of a stick

to be committed.

At this moment in time, no one knows what is going on during these meetings.

At the end of the day, there is also the cost.

If we went with the cost from the original motion, we do not know where these locations are going to be,

how many people are going to be doing it, what the cost is going to be.

In 12 months time, the discounts get abolished, which it will be. What happens then?

So, I would go with the motion.

The reason I support the amendment is quite clearly for cost reasons.

And it's going to be cost reasons for the counter -tax payer.

Never mind ourselves. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Councillor Martin.

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:08:39

Thank you, Chair.

Cllr Alan Martin - 1:08:44

I do share some of the concerns around the amendment

maybe making the process more lengthy

and maybe bringing additional cost to the council.

I'm also not close enough to the detail

of what the real benefit of that independent report

would be to fully weigh up that argument.

I had a question and a concern.

The main concern I had with the suggestion

from Councillor Scotham is I didn't like us replacing

bring forward with investigate because for me

that brings in a little more uncertainty

and another layer of decision making.

So rather than us today deciding

on a particular point of action,

we would be agreeing that someone goes

and investigates whether or not we should take that action.

And so that aspect of the amendment

I completely disagree with,

and I think we should be making a bolder decision

to do something or not.

I share other people's concerns over here

around the amendment making the process more lengthy,

but I don't understand the detail well enough

to fully argue that point.

Maybe more of a question was the amendment

from Councillor Thomas around focusing on human excrement.

I'm not sure I fully understand why we're just focusing

on human and not the full range.

But again, maybe I don't understand the topic well enough

and someone can explain that to me later.

Thank you.

Councillor Proater.

Thank you.

Really wasn't planning on speaking on this, unusually.

Cllr Tim Prater - 1:10:28

I absolutely support the amendment which is put here

because we need to go to war with Southern Water

and we need to go to war with Southern Water

with the best weapons we've got.

And the best weapons we'll have is evidence

that they will accept and that they have said in advance

that they will accept.

And that's why you investigate it

and that's why you then collect that data

in the right places, in the right way,

in a way they can't then turn around and say,

this ain't good enough, because it will be good enough

and we'll have that in advance.

And there is no point in collecting data

that we walk into a meeting, we throw it down and say,

that's what you've done, and they say,

you collected that in the wrong way, it's no good to me.

And that's why.

The human indicators within that is because that's what

the human indicators of what they have consistently,

and said earlier, referred to faecal contamination

from other elements, like seagulls, like dogs,

like things like that, and that's what's causing it,

and it ain't.

It's human faecal contamination,

and that's what we should be testing for,

and that's part of the process of agreeing those markers,

agreeing those markers in advance,

and that's why this amendment strengthens that motion.

I'd also like to make the point that the words as a matter of urgency remain with the amended motion

They are not removed. So the urgency remains in it even as amended so it makes it better

It keeps it as urgent. It gives a better weapon for going to all with southern water and we really should do that

Please support the amendment

Councillor Davidson

Thanks very much. Yes

I want to just thank

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:12:05

I thank Councillor Thomas and Councillor Scoffin

for applying their brains to this

in terms of bringing forward amendments

that I think do make it stronger.

I think, obviously, it is an urgent issue,

but it's also important that we get it right

in terms of how we address it.

And I think the points in the amendment look to do that.

I think if we are bringing forward

the commissioning of a report,

you would have to do the investigation around that anyway.

So I don't think it makes a difference

to Councillor Martin's point in that respect.

And I think it is important to identify

the sampling locations.

I don't see it as a kind of delay.

It's making the best use of the time and the effort

and the resource to then get to a better set of outcomes

in terms of our kind of shared ambition

to address this issue.

And I think we are, we're really all in agreement on it

and it would actually send a powerful message

if we were able to unanimously agree this is a motion coming out of full council this

evening.

So I would encourage colleagues to accept the amendment and then for us to agree this

collectively.

Councillor Jim Lutton.

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:13:18

Thank you very much, Chair.

Cllr Jim Martin - 1:13:23

Nothing really to add just to say I wholeheartedly support the amendment.

I think it strengthens an excellent motion, but I think it strengthens it.

Everything that other councillors have said, in particular Councillor Cooper, Councillor

Hills, Councillor Thomas, we go repeatedly to these meetings and they, I'll just be

careful about what I say, but it seems to me that they try and bamboozle us at every

single opportunity.

It has been years since we've been having these meetings now and we're not talking about

dog poo.

You know, I mean the time I spent talking about avian poo, farmyard run off and dog

poo, I will never get back and I resent it.

What we are overwhelmingly talking about is human and you know, Councillor Thomas' detailed

attention to that is excellent.

I do not underestimate the scale of what we are asking here.

So that's why I think getting a report first on what we should do rather than just asking

the officers to do stuff.

I think it's very important that we include the independent drainage board.

I think we need, you know, so just for the uninitiated,

where we talk about bathing water,

that is already tested.

The Environment Agency tests that.

Largely, we trust that testing.

What this is talking about is testing

the water courses on the marsh.

In particular, it's become evident to us

that Ham Street, which is a sewerage works

just over the border in Ashford,

is discharging regularly untreated sewage.

And we don't know where that goes.

Councillors will recall a long series of emails that I had

trying to convince Southern Water

that it actually went in the sea.

But that aside, so I think this will be a valuable addition.

Ultimately, as so many people have said,

we have no power.

Effectively, they can say, we hear what you're saying, but we're not going to take any notice

of it.

Which is just so monstrously awful.

We represent the 110 ,000 people that live in this district, and all of them are affected

by this.

There's very little that we can actually do.

Any weapon that we can develop to put in our armoury and try and at least embarrass them

into doing something, I have to support.

Thank you.

Councillor Wimble.

Thank you, Chair.

I've got to say, I agree with pretty much

Cllr David Wimble - 1:16:30

every point being made here.

For all the years I've sat on this council,

going back to 18 years, we've always had a problem

with Southern Water.

Discharge is a great stone, a little stone.

They used to get fined every time they did it.

It's so often now, I don't think the paperwork

could keep up with it.

My big worry is that Focht and Hive have this problem, down the coast they have the problem,

the Environment Agency are meant to be acting on our behalf as well, but Southern Water

seem to be a law upon themselves.

How many times have we asked them to come here and explain it?

They never turn up.

At Kent County Council, we've had nearly as many as Jim, and Jim's been to more meetings

on this than anybody I think.

I am just worried that it is going to cost us money to achieve nothing.

I agree we should do it though.

At least we can tell everybody who voted for us that we tried our best.

I don't think we will get any response.

At least we can say we tried.

I will back the motion as part of the original motion.

So that is my point of view.

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:17:39

So the amendment tackles what you're talking about,

tackles that, making sure the data is valid.

That was what Councillor Scoffran was saying.

Would anybody else like to speak on this, the amendment?

We're not speaking on the motion at the moment,

we've amended the motion.

Getting there.

So I think we go back to Councillor Hills.

You get the right of reply at this point.

You're very kind, Chair.

On the amendment, only on the amendment.

I'm trying to hold it up.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:18:03

I will leave it to your good judgement.

The first thing I would like to say, one point about the amendment.

I think that puts us into a confrontational position with the EA and other people.

I don't want that.

I have been working with the environment agency since they were first formed.

A long while ago, when the rivers authority.

They have some great officers and they want to do a good job.

But they are underfunded and their morale is very low.

I spent three hours with them yesterday morning.

And they are in a tough situation.

It is not their fault.

The work is growing and the resource isn't there.

I am not even complaining to the government at this stage, but they are not getting the

resource they need.

So I would like to say, if you look at what we are resolving to do as a council, I would

like to point out, because this is appropriate to the amendment, point three.

We request that the leader and chief executive

write to the environment agencies,

Southern Water, Cape County Council,

UK Health Authority, and any relevant academic,

public health partners, seek cooperation,

data sharing, and where possible joint working.

And then, point four, request that the findings

of any agreed testing programme to report publicly

to the councils and residents,

and refer to overview and scrutiny

for consideration of next steps.

This is so important, we work as a team with the environment agency.

I'm not working against them, I'm not trying to pull problems.

I know most of them in this region very well.

Believe me, they're good officers.

But I'm just going to say, I can't, I respect Paul a lot for what he's putting forward.

I know why he's doing it and I can understand.

And it's the same with Councillor Swaffen.

There's not really an argument here, it's a case of tone as much as anything else.

But I don't think it carries us forward.

It strives to be selective in the work that even starts.

My original motion is a bit of latitude, I agree.

I have complete faith in my officers.

Did you hear that, Susan?

I have complete faith and want us to do a proper job

on progressive motion to be supported by the council.

I have already had discussions with the Kentish

to our countryside partnership and Dr. Engle,

good old as mentioned, and they all want to help.

So we're not trying to push at closed doors.

And I'm sure the EA would want to help.

That's the strange thing,

because it's not the same departments.

Now, what the leader was referring to was the algorithm.

The algorithm they have to say,

what causes failure on our coastal waters?

And that algorithm is very complicated.

It's got everything in there from avian

to slurry, to everything you can think of.

And then a computer decides, what time's the day?

I'm not happy with that.

I never have been, I don't like the way they do it.

But this was decided many years ago

by some professors, scientists or whatever,

and me having to, and I want it reformed.

I don't think it's fit for purpose.

Every four year cycle, whether you can go swimming or not,

no point in it.

So it's a long way of saying it.

I am a friend of the EA,

and that's why I want to work with them,

because they are struggling.

They know they're struggling.

If you speak to them, they'll tell you they're struggling.

But I think we can form a better partnership,

and I trust my leader, my chief exec,

to write to those people and form a consensus

that we can carry a joint problem.

It's not just this district.

It's Ashford, it's Canterbury.

So it's a bigger problem, and let's try and be more honest about it and work together.

And I think this is foundational work for when we have a unitary council.

So it's not going to be wasted, but I think we have to step it one at a time.

And of course, the good news is, when you get results of that, you can bring it to overview scrutiny,

and I wonder who sits on that.

And basically, you can look at it there and make a recommendation to council.

I actually think it is a force for good.

So, though I understand, I understand about the amendment,

I don't think it is really necessary to go into that detail at this stage.

I want to see what we can do with a bigger picture first, before we hone in on the detail.

But we will get there eventually.

Thank you.

Thank you. So, we are going to take the amended motion to the vote now.

So did we want to read it out again,

just so that everybody's clear

on what they're voting for or against?

Thank you.

Okay, so, and just to clarify,

Dr Susan Priest - 1:22:51

the votes then will mean whether this becomes

the substantive motion that is then open for discussion,

and I've got Councillor Goddard

that wanted to speak on that,

and then there'll be the right to sum up,

and then there'll be the vote.

So that's the process.

So what we are now voting on is,

and I'll read it out as proposed, amended, agreed,

is that request the cabinet investigate,

as a matter of urgency, the commissioning

of an independent report to identify

the relevant water courses and to propose

the optimum sampling locations,

which the environment agency will regard as valid,

consider as valid, prior to FHDC officers

setting out costed options for a targeted

water testing programme, which the environment agency will accept as valid, covering major

open sewers and connected water courses on Romley Marsh and within the East Tower catchment.

Two ask that the report include options for testing the E. coli intestinal endococci and

other indicators, stroke traces of human faecal contamination and where practical and lawful

options for the antimicrobial resistance screening through partnership working with appropriate

public bodies, regulators, water companies, laboratories, and academic institutions.

Thank you, so I hope that's clear.

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:24:16

So those who are in favour of that amendment.

Okay, so there's against.

And any abstentions?

So we have 23 for four against and one abstention.

So that has now become this substantive motion, which we can now debate.

So Councillor Goddard, you do get to speak.

Excellent.

Cllr Clive Goddard - 1:25:22

I thought that was it.

To be honest, I think Tony said it all.

You know what, Tony, don't know about Walter.

It's not worth knowing.

I was just going to home in on item 3 and 4, what Tony spoke about, about requesting

the leader and the chief accept, which is minimal staff, minimal money, well not minimal

money, but minimalish money, and obviously 4 would go back to scrutiny which Councillor

Hills sits on.

I was also going to highlight what Councillor Martin said about investigate.

it opens up another channel to the debate. So like I say it could be a decision tonight.

But does it look like they're going to support Councillor Hills's motion?

Credit to the author for getting it this far. It's just a shame because like I say I think

you know Councillor Hills does sum it up nicely in those four paragraphs, especially in paragraph three and four

where it's especially free, where it's quite simple and minimal cost to this council.

Thank you. Councillor Godfrey.

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:26:36

Yes, thank you very much.

Cllr David Godfrey - 1:26:41

I don't think a meeting goes past in this chamber, though, that's talking about water, do we?

And dirty water. I mean, all the years I've been serving on the council, Tony's been championing this.

He did a short break where he had to leave us for a while,

but he came back and he's been championing this for ages.

And now he's got actually, Councillor Thomas,

championing as well.

And we have Councillor Scott from all coming up with,

actually what we all want to happen,

it's how we want it to happen, it's a difficulty.

And therefore, I was swayed by Tony's arguments

about the methodology and move forward,

which is why I couldn't support the original amendment.

Obviously, I still feel that way.

I just got a horrible feeling that they spoke

add any more weight at all and we'll create more work for nothing.

The important thing is to keep our foot to the pedal, not let it go.

Because as we move towards LGR, if we ever get there,

this needs to go with it because it becomes much wider.

So that's why I really supported the original motion.

Thank you.

So would anybody else like to speak on this motion?

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:27:41

I think you are allowed to speak again if you haven't spoken on it,

because we're now speaking on the motion, not the amendment.

This is your opportunity.

We are going to go back to Councillor Hill's to sum up.

I would just like to say I don't think it is personally for people to try and amend this,

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:28:05

but we are where we are and we are a democratic organisation and we go on the majority vote.

We start on that basis.

and I know we all want to do the right thing

for our presidents.

It's gonna be difficult.

We have so many things going on

and so much of it off the time.

But we have to keep some pace on this.

And really what we should be doing

is trying to work with other organisations.

That's why this motion is important.

We have no power.

It's been said more than once by various people.

But we do have clout.

We do have authority.

and I would stress people here to think

the collective is stronger than the individual.

So we can make a point.

And it's the same with county as well.

Everybody is working in the same direction.

I go to county meetings,

the Flood and Water Management Committee on behalf

of folks in the hive.

One in a few districts now come there,

and it's quite informative,

and we do get these briefings.

I know what's coming in the sense of climate change.

Three weeks ago at the meeting up in Maystone,

the Met Office person there, very nice guy,

told me that we can expect a four degree temperature rise

by the end of the century and a hundred,

sorry, a metre sea level rise by the end of the century.

Now that's their current view where we are

in the hockey state.

It's not gonna go any better.

It's only gonna get worse.

And by 2040, I've also been told,

we'll have drought problems and water problems

in the district as well, and the county.

So we should try and do what we can.

But I want to work with organisations, not against them.

I have great faith in my officers.

I know they mean well, and they'll do a good job.

And we should go back to Open View Discrete

where we can debate and carry it further forward.

It's not going to be a sprint, it's a marathon.

But at least we can show that we are working

on behalf of residents.

I personally think, and I've said this before,

that we should be honest with residents what's coming

and help what we can do,

and make residents more resilient to what's coming.

And I think we can do that.

So basically, I hope you support this

as a step in the right direction.

So I'll leave it there.

Bye. Thanks.

Thank you, sir.

We'll take it to the vote.

This time we are voting on the whole motion with the amendment.

So, those in favour?

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:30:46

I think that is unanimous.

Thank you.

And thank you, Councillor Hills, for all your work on this.

Right.

Where are we?

12 Committee Membership - Audit and Governance Committee

Item 12, Committee membership.

I believe Councillor Prater is proposing this.

Happy to move.

Cllr Tim Prater - 1:31:12

Do you have a seconder?

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:31:13

Councillor Martin.

Do we have a debate?

No.

So, are we all in agreement?

Thank you.

Thank you everybody this evening.

I hope you have a lovely Easter and a nice rest of your evening.

We welcome your comments

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Council - Wednesday 1 April 2026, 7:00pm - Start video at 0:07:57 - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

CouncilWednesday, 1st April 2026 at 7:00pm

Agenda

Slides

Transcript

Map

Resources

Twitter

Forums

Speakers

Feedback

Votes

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:00:00

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:00:01

Microphone Forty - 0:00:09

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:02:37

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:03:26

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:03:26

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:03:42

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:07:11

1 Apologies for Absence

Dr Susan Priest - 0:07:23

2 Declarations of Interest

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:07:34

Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:07:42

3 Minutes

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:07:53

4 Chair's Communications

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:08:23

5 Petitions

6 Questions from the Public

7 Questions from Councillors

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:11:02

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:11:34

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:12:55

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:13:04

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:13:04

Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:13:09

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:13:29

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:14:54

Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:14:56

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:15:17

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:15:19

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:15:57

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:16:03

Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:16:34

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:18:49

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:18:55

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:19:37

Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:19:42

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:20:40

Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:20:49

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:21:15

Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:25:55

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:26:01

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:26:03

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:26:36

Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:26:48

Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:26:59

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:27:29

Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:27:39

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:27:52

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:28:02

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:28:36

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:28:38

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:29:34

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:30:00

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:30:08

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:30:28

Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:30:37

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:30:59

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:32:24

Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:32:27

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:32:29

8 Announcements of the Leader of the Council

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:32:53

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:40:42

Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 0:40:45

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:44:57

Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:45:06

Council
Wednesday, 1st April 2026 at 7:00pm