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Council
Wednesday, 22nd July 2026 at 7:00pm

 

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  1. Cllr Paul Thomas
  2. Microphone Forty
  3. Cllr Paul Thomas
  4. Cllr Paul Thomas
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  1. Cllr Paul Thomas
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  1. Councillor Tony Hills
  2. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  3. Cllr Paul Thomas
  4. Councillor Tony Hills
  5. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  6. Cllr Paul Thomas
  7. Councillor Tony Hills
  8. Cllr Bridget Chapman
  9. Cllr Jim Martin
  10. Cllr Paul Thomas
  11. Cllr Bridget Chapman
  12. Cllr Jim Martin
  13. Cllr Paul Thomas
  14. Cllr Nicola Keen
  15. Cllr Mike Blakemore
  16. Cllr Paul Thomas
  17. Cllr Nicola Keen
  18. Cllr Paul Thomas
  19. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  20. Cllr Paul Thomas
  21. Cllr Nicola Keen
  22. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  23. Cllr Paul Thomas
  24. Cllr Jim Martin
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  1. Cllr Adrian Lockwood
  2. Cllr Paul Thomas
  3. Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
  4. Cllr Paul Thomas
  5. Cllr Jim Martin
  6. Cllr Paul Thomas
  7. Cllr Paul Thomas
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  1. Cllr Alan Martin
  2. Cllr Stephen Scoffham
  3. Cllr Paul Thomas
  4. Cllr Jackie Meade
  5. Cllr Paul Thomas
  6. Cllr Jackie Meade
  7. Cllr Paul Thomas
  8. Cllr Paul Thomas
  9. Cllr Alan Martin
  10. Cllr Paul Thomas
  11. Cllr Stephen Scoffham
  12. Cllr Paul Thomas
  13. Cllr Paul Thomas
  14. Cllr Paul Thomas
  15. Mr Paul Butler
  16. Cllr Paul Thomas
  17. Mr Paul Butler
  18. Cllr Paul Thomas
  19. Cllr Alan Martin
  20. Cllr Paul Thomas
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  1. Cllr Paul Thomas
  2. Cllr Paul Thomas
  3. Councillor Tony Hills
  4. Cllr Paul Thomas
  5. Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
  6. Cllr Paul Thomas
  7. Cllr Adrian Lockwood
  8. Cllr Paul Thomas
  9. Cllr Gary Fuller
  10. Cllr Paul Thomas
  11. Cllr Tony Cooper
  12. Cllr Paul Thomas
  13. Cllr Alan Martin
  14. Cllr Paul Thomas
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  1. Cllr Tim Prater
  2. Cllr Paul Thomas
  3. Cllr Rich Holgate
  4. Cllr Paul Thomas
  5. Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
  6. Cllr Paul Thomas
  7. Cllr Laura Davison
  8. Mr Ewan Green
  9. Cllr Laura Davison
  10. Cllr Paul Thomas
  11. Mr Ewan Green
  12. Cllr Laura Davison
  13. Cllr Paul Thomas
  14. Cllr Laura Davison
  15. Cllr Paul Thomas
  16. Cllr Mike Blakemore
  17. Cllr Paul Thomas
  18. Cllr Jackie Meade
  19. Cllr Mike Blakemore
  20. Cllr Jackie Meade
  21. Mr Ewan Green
  22. Cllr Paul Thomas
  23. Mr Ewan Green
  24. Cllr Paul Thomas
  25. Cllr Paul Thomas
  26. Cllr Adrian Lockwood
  27. Cllr Paul Thomas
  28. Cllr Tim Prater
  29. Cllr Paul Thomas
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  1. Cllr Mike Blakemore
  2. Cllr Paul Thomas
  3. Cllr Tim Prater
  4. Cllr Paul Thomas
  5. Cllr Jackie Meade
  6. Cllr Paul Thomas
  7. Cllr Tony Cooper
  8. Cllr Mike Blakemore
  9. Cllr Paul Thomas
  10. Cllr Nicola Keen
  11. Cllr Paul Thomas
  12. Cllr Paul Thomas
  13. Cllr Gary Fuller
  14. Cllr Paul Thomas
  15. Cllr Paul Thomas
  16. Councillor Tony Hills
  17. Cllr Paul Thomas
  18. Cllr Laura Davison
  19. Cllr Paul Thomas
  20. Cllr Paul Thomas
  21. Cllr Alan Martin
  22. Cllr Paul Thomas
  23. Cllr Mike Blakemore
  24. Cllr Paul Thomas
  25. Cllr Paul Thomas
  26. Cllr Paul Thomas
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  1. Cllr Connor McConville
  2. Cllr Paul Thomas
  3. Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
  4. Cllr David Godfrey
  5. Cllr Paul Thomas
  6. Cllr Adrian Lockwood
  7. Cllr Paul Thomas
  8. Cllr Jackie Meade
  9. Cllr Rebecca Shoob
  10. Cllr Paul Thomas
  11. Cllr Tony Cooper
  12. Cllr Paul Thomas
  13. Cllr Nicola Keen
  14. Cllr Paul Thomas
  15. Cllr Jim Martin
  16. Cllr Gary Fuller
  17. Cllr Paul Thomas
  18. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  19. Cllr Paul Thomas
  20. Cllr Laura Davison
  21. Cllr Paul Thomas
  22. Cllr Bridget Chapman
  23. Cllr Paul Thomas
  24. Cllr Stephen Scoffham
  25. Cllr Paul Thomas
  26. Cllr Connor McConville
  27. Cllr Paul Thomas
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  1. Cllr Connor McConville
  2. Cllr Paul Thomas
  3. Cllr Mike Blakemore
  4. Cllr Paul Thomas
  5. Cllr John Wing
  6. Cllr Paul Thomas
  7. Cllr Nicola Keen
  8. Cllr Paul Thomas
  9. Cllr David Godfrey
  10. Cllr Paul Thomas
  11. Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
  12. Cllr Tim Prater
  13. Cllr Tony Cooper
  14. Cllr Paul Thomas
  15. Councillor Tony Hills
  16. Cllr Paul Thomas
  17. Councillor Tony Hills
  18. Cllr Laura Davison
  19. Cllr Paul Thomas
  20. Cllr Connor McConville
  21. Cllr Paul Thomas
  22. Cllr Paul Thomas
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  1. Cllr Connor McConville
  2. Cllr Paul Thomas
  3. Councillor Tony Hills
  4. Cllr Adrian Lockwood
  5. Cllr Paul Thomas
  6. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  7. Cllr Paul Thomas
  8. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  9. Cllr Paul Thomas
  10. Cllr Jackie Meade
  11. Cllr Paul Thomas
  12. Cllr Gary Fuller
  13. Cllr Paul Thomas
  14. Cllr Laura Davison
  15. Cllr Paul Thomas
  16. Cllr Connor McConville
  17. Cllr Paul Thomas
  18. Webcast Finished

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:00:18
Okay, thank you councillors. I'd like to hand over to Mark Chapman, Reverend Chris Hodgkins,
So if you'd like to stand if you want to sit that's perfectly okay as well. Thank you
Microphone Forty - 0:00:36
A lawyer asks Jesus a question. What must I do to inherit eternal life?
Naturally Jesus asks what is written in the law? What do you read that?
Good questions for a lawyer who would have been familiar with the law of Moses as written in Exodus and Leviticus
The lawyer answers Jesus by quoting from what we know is the Ten Commandments
He shall love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind
And your neighbour as yourself
He then asked Jesus who is my neighbour?
Jesus then tells the familiar parable of the good Samaritan.
In ancient times, Jews and Samaritans were deep social
and religious rivals.
By making a Samaritan the hero of the storey
and the target of the lesson,
Jesus emphasises that compassion and duty to others
should transcend boundaries like nationality,
race or social status.
Indeed, again, we read in Leviticus that we are to treat all people like they are citizens
of our own communities and country, as if they are native born and love them as you
love yourself.
This means those of all nationalities, colour, creed, gender, sexuality, the list goes on.
Even those who enter our country illegally, however hard that may be, we are to treat
them as we treat ourselves. Over the coming weeks, many of our communities will be welcoming
those from across the country and the world as they head to our shores for a summer holiday.
What sort of welcome will they receive? Will it be an arms wide open welcome as if the
was one of our own family or a suspicious welcome
with grumbling and mistrust?
How about those from other countries
who come to our communities to start a new life?
Do we welcome them as we would a naturally born UK citizen?
Are we doing all we can to make the transition
to a new culture with a strange language
as pain -free as possible?
Then there is the more difficult question of those who are temporarily placed here because
they have entered the country illegally.
How are we showing them that they too are our neighbour?
Are we offering a warm welcome, being mindful that we do not know what they are fleeing?
Or is it a hostile reception with the misuse of our national flags, protests and even violence
as seen in one of our communities recently.
All these questions deeply disturb many of us,
much as the Samaritan being the neighbour
to the beaten Israelite in the parable
would have disturbed the lawyer.
Yet even he knew that the Samaritan was the only passerby
who showed true compassion and mercy.
Jesus simply ends this lesson with,
go and do likewise.
I wonder what our response will be.
I invite those who wish to, to join me in prayer.
Almighty God, source of compassion, justice and peace.
We lift before you our district, our neighbours
and all who call this place home.
As summer begins, we pray for our communities and especially for our young people.
Bless them with safety, joy and good friendships.
Protect those who feel isolated or anxious and strengthen all who work to support families, children and vulnerable young people during these weeks.
May our towns and villages be places of welcome, belonging, and kindness.
We pray for all who will visit our coastline and countryside this summer.
Help us to greet every neighbour, resident, newcomer, or visitor with warmth and generosity.
Teach us to see each person as made in your image and to extend the compassion shown in
parable of the good Samaritan to those who arrive
seeking rest, opportunity, or refuge.
We pray for our national leaders,
especially our new Prime Minister, Andy Burnham,
and his cabinet.
Grant them wisdom rooted in humility,
courage shaped by justice, and a deep commitment
to the wellbeing of every community across our nation.
Guide their decisions so that peace, fairness,
and hope may flourish.
We hold before you all who serve in public office,
locally and nationally.
Following the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe,
we pray for protection, safety, and reassurance
for counsellors, MPs, staff teams, and volunteers.
Guard their hearts from fear,
their workplaces from harm, and their families from anxiety.
May our society reject violence and choose the path
of respect, dialogue, and peace.
Bless this council as it meets today.
Strengthen them in their responsibilities.
Unite them in purpose and inspire them to lead
with compassion for every neighbour.
In your mercy, hear our prayer.
Amen.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:06:41
and others in the room may hear you.
Would anyone with a mobile phone
please switch it to silent mode,
as they can be distracting.
I'd like to remind members that,
although we all have strong opinions
on matters under consideration,
it's important to treat members, officers,
and public speakers with respect.
Please feel free to sit or stand when speaking.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:07:34
First item on the agenda is apologies for absence.

1 Apologies for Absence

Thank you, evening councillors, members of the public and colleagues.
We have two apologies this evening from councillors Butch and Jones. Thank you.

2 Declarations of Interest

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:07:50
Thank you. Item two is declarations of interest. Do we have any declarations of interest on the
items on the agenda this evening.
I can't see any hands up, so that's no.
Item 3 is to receive the minutes of the meeting

3 Minutes

of the Council held on the 24th of June, 2026,
and to authorise the Chair of the Council to sign them as a correct record.
So, members, may I sign them as a true and accurate record?
Thank you very much.
The next item on the agenda is the Chair's Communications.
So this has been a very hot, hence the shirt, and very busy period for the chair.
I'd like to thank all those organisations that invited me to their events.
It must have been a very difficult time culminating in England losing the World Cup
semi -final to Argentina. I won't say any more about that.
On Saturday the 27th of June, I was invited by the town mayor of Folkestone,
Councillor Jackie Meade, to the Folkestone Armed Services event on the Lees,
Led by the band of the Brigade of Gurkhas, we processed the long leaves to the bandstand
where we were treated to some excellent musical cameos.
This was followed by meeting with many local organisations, raising money for their great
causes.
On Sunday 28th June, I was again invited by the town mayor of Folkestone, Councillor Jackie
Mayne, to take part in the town's Sunday service at St Mary's and St Answert's Church.
This was followed in the afternoon by the blessing of the fisheries we processed, led by a piper, on a very warm day,
from St Peter's Church to the stade at the harbour, where the service was held, as it has been done for many, many years,
before we returned to St Peter's Church to conclude the service.
This was followed by a very nice afternoon tea supplied by supporters of St Peter's Church,
and the event was certainly less eventful than it was the last time I was there, a couple of years ago,
So, on Wednesday, the 1st of July, it was my very immense pleasure to be invited again
to folks, and this time to Canada Day at Shorncliffe Military Cemetery.
The town mayor, Councillor Jackie Meade, led the procession from the army barracks to the
Senate half of the cemetery, and we're also joined by the chair of the Sanger Council,
Councillor Tim Prater.
The event was attended by the leader, Councillor Jim Martin, local civic dignitaries, and Councillor
Canadian High Commission representatives.
The highlight of the event was the community tributes,
particularly the local children laying flowers
on each of the Canadian graves.
It was very moving, and we did speak to them afterwards,
and what a fantastic job they did.
On Saturday, the 4th of July,
I was invited to the Abacus Nursery in New Romney
to celebrate their 21st birthday.

4 Chair's Communications

With the financial pressures we see on nurseries
and early years provision,
it was great to see Lisa Evans and her team
going from strength to strength.
I was joined at this event by the right worship of Mayor of New Romney,
Councillor John Rivers.
On Wednesday the 8th of July, we attended the opening
of the 2026 Jam on the Marsh Festival at the Assembly Rooms in New Romney.
This was followed by the changing theatre, open air production
of Shakespeare's Much Ado About Nothing in the Old School Garden,
a thoroughly enjoyable production as always.
On Thursday the 9th, I hosted the Shepway Heart,
which is Heritage Arts' residence and tourism forum
at the New Romney town council chamber.
The organisation is dedicated to preserving
and promoting the cultural and historical assets
of Folkestone Hive and Romney Marsh.
On Sunday the 12th, we attended the Battle of Britain
memorial at the National Memorial to the Few
at Cable of Fern.
The event gathered veterans, service personnel,
air cadets, veterans associations, and relatives
to honour the pilots and air crew
who defended the UK in 1940 as part of their service.
I'll lead a wreath on behalf of the residents
of Folkestone Hive and Romney Marsh.
Finally, I'd like to recognise the excellent work
carried out by all of our nursery
and early years providers across the district.
They provide an excellent childcare service
so parents can return to work,
which is essential to support the district economy.
I would also like...
..when I find my bit of paper...
Members have been notified of the sad death of Giles Barnard,
a very well -respected officer at this council.
I met him in Israel as community warden
and beach cleaner and various other things.
He will be missed across the district
for his excellent work in so many areas.
There will be a farewell drink for him at 2pm on Saturday,
the 8th of August at the Boonvery Tap,
for those who'd like to go.
Thank you very much.
Next item on the agenda is petitions,
and we don't have any of those.

5 Petitions

We don't have any questions from the public.

6 Questions from the Public

So the next item on the agenda,

7 Questions from Councillors

Item seven is questions from councillors.
We have four questions.
The first of those from Councillor Hills
to Councillor Polly Blakemore,
cabinet member for transport regulatory services
and building control.
Councillor Hills.
Thank you, Chair.
Councillor Tony Hills - 0:13:29
Following the recent serious life threatening events
for a resident and his son,
I'd like to thank the council for moving quickly
to place warning signs along the beaches from Dim Church to Lake
to warn residents and visitors alike in the danger of sinking mud on the foreshore at no time.
My question is, can the Council facilitate a meeting between the coast guards, the RNLI
and the folks at the entire Council to see what further action can be taken to protect residents and visitors alike?
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:14:11
Thank you for the question, Councillor Hills. This recent incident underlined again the
dangers from sinking mud and mud holes along the foreshore and led to a review of the existing
signage as you know, which was then subsequently upgraded and additional signage added to new
locations to improve coverage. I'm pleased to confirm that the council has in fact already
met with the Environment Agency, the RNLI, Coast Guard and the Crown Estates to review
the incident at a meeting which took place on the 25th of June. Outcomes included the
possible roll -out of education programmes and a review by the Environment Agency of
its signage. It was good to compare what we have done locally with what happened nationally.
A follow -up meeting is planned at the end of the summer, which will be arranged through
the Environment Agency.
Councillor Hills, do you have a relevant supplementary?
Thank you.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:15:02
That is very good news.
Councillor Tony Hills - 0:15:05
I am very pleased that we have been taking place.
But will we have information at the end of the summer that is something we need to worry
about on what has happened during the course of summer and what is proposed next year?
Certainly, thank you for that.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:15:23
Yes, I will talk to officers about making sure that that happens and that the information
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:15:37
is fed back to you. Thank you, Councillor Whitmore. The second question is from Councillor
Chapman to Councillor Jim Martin, moving to the Council as a cabinet member for Otterpool
Councillor Tony Hills - 0:15:46
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:15:50
Park and planning policy. Thank you, Chair. Earlier this year, earlier this month, there
was a very serious fire at a residential building on Dover Road in Folkestone. Luckily, everyone
got out safely.
But I was extremely concerned to learn that Kent Fire and Rescue had to use a
Hite vehicle on loan from London Fire Brigade to fight the blaze, as all of
their suitable assets were temporarily unavailable due to technical issues.
The vehicle they used is based overnight in Mayston, so I had to come all the way from there to be
used to fight the fire on Dover Road.
Residents pay for Kent Fire and Rescue through their council tax at a rate of about 4%,
and it feels like the money is, to put it mildly,
not giving them adequate cover.
Can you give an update on how the fire service are planning to rectify this matter so that
our residents can be reassured that their money is giving them the protection that they
need and deserve?
Councillor Giamatti.
Thank you, Councillor Chapman.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:16:43
Indeed, we have exchanged emails with regard to this and we received a very, very prompt
response from the fire brigade, which I have forwarded to you.
but I will read some of it for the benefit of the members.
This is from the Johan Clark of the Kent Fire Service.
In Kent we have three height vehicles
located at Maidstone, Canterbury, and Ashford.
We aim to have two high vehicles available at all times,
but we have three to maintain.
Based on historic incident data modelling,
we prioritise Matesden, then Canterbury, then Ashford.
Each high vehicle costs around
900 ,000 pounds at current prices,
so we strike a balance between,
We strike a balance between neither over nor under resourcing.
We recently had a very rare situation which we had not experienced before.
One of our high vehicles was away on a major service.
There has been a global issue with parts supply for these vehicles that have meant the duration
of that service was extended.
In the meantime, both of our other vehicles
developed faults, one mechanical and one hardware problem.
It is incredibly unusual that these would coincide
at the same time, but that is what happened.
We have a pre -existing mutual aid arrangement in place
with bouldering, fire and rescue services,
including the London Fire Brigade.
We regularly share resources.
At times we send fire engines to them
and vice versa to cover incidents.
We used these arrangements to station
a London height vehicle at Maidstone
throughout the period that our vehicles were out of action.
This ensured that we were still able to respond
to incidents across Kent.
With regard to the incident on Dover Road,
the Hyatt vehicle came from Maidstone Fire Station,
which is not unusual.
I am pleased to report that two out of the three
Hyatt vehicles are now back in service,
and the third is due back soon.
I would like to highlight that as part of our
resourcing review proposals, we have proposed to place an additional whole -time fire engine
at Folkestone during the day. This will help improve the speed and weight of response to
incidents in and around Folkestone and I hope will address any concerns relating to the
Councillor Keene, do you have a supplementary?
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:20:11
Sorry, Councillor Chapman, two apologies.
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:20:14
Thank you for that, Jim, and I really appreciate the work that the UN officers put into getting
that response so quickly.
I am relieved to hear that it's a rare occurrence, and I'm relieved to hear that they're looking
at putting a height vehicle in Folkestone during the daytime, because my fear is that
We have a rush hour fire.
We've got, you know, we know how the traffic gets.
I'm sorry, Councillor Chapman.
Do you have a question?
I'm really sorry, but my, yes, I do.
What I'd like to know is in the forums
through which we liaise with the Fire and Rescue Service,
such as the Community Safety Partnership,
is this something that could be kept an eye on?
Because I think it's seriously concerning.
Thank you for that.
Councillor Jim Marston.
Thank you very much, Councillor Chapman.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:21:03
I'm delighted to say that we have with us
the liaison officer wearing a different hat.
So I am sure that we will be well represented.
Just one thing, it isn't a height vehicle
that they're placing in Fosun,
it's an additional fire engine.
But the idea being that they will be able to respond quicker
and catch a fire at an earlier stage.
But it is something that we will continue to monitor.
And like everyone in this room, we all have similar concerns.
Thank you very much for that.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:21:45
Next question is from Councillor Keane.
To Councillor Mike Lakemore,
cabinet member for community and collaboration.
No, you're Philip.
Councillor Keane.
Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:21:52
Now that Fodson has become a destination coastal town,
can I please ask the council this evening
to consider that we help fund the folks in the sea rescue service on a regular basis.
The service has run for many years and apart from small dowry when it first started operations,
grants from Councillors and raising funds themselves, they received no help at all,
not from District. How can we as a Council encourage visitors to our beaches and not
provide appropriate safety facilities?
Thank you.
Councillor Michael Whitmore.
Thank you for the question, Councillor Keene.
I do agree with you about the important role played by Fergston C Rescue.
In previous years, as you say, they have received grants from this council through the ward
grant scheme.
And with the main council grant budget already allocated for this financial year, the ward
grant scheme would seem to be the best way for them and other groups to secure grant
funding from this council in the current financial year.
But I do understand the point you're making about whether this is a group that the council
should be providing a grant to on a regular basis, and this is certainly something that
would be considered in the next budget.
Okay, do you have a relevant supplementary?
Yeah, I do.
Are we going to advise visitors to Folkestone then that we do not have sea rescue as part
of a service in this town?
Because when I listen to Councillor Hill's tonight, it's really apparent that we need
it.
So are we going to advise the people who come to our town to use our beaches that we do not have any form of sea rescue that we finance?
Councillor Mark Whitmore.
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:23:36
Well as I've mentioned we have given grants to the Flakes and Rescue for through the wall grant scheme and councillors are free to do that.
So again they've got an extra $2000 in their wall grant budget for this year and we can consider it for the next budget but the budget's already been set for this year. Thank you.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:23:53
The final question is from Councillor Keene to Councillor Polly Blakemore, Cabinet Member
for Transport, Regulatory Services and Building Control.
Councillor Keene.
Once again back to the harbour.
Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:24:05
Can it please be explained to full Council how we are allowing caravans and motorhomes
to set up homes in CPZ areas of the town and take no action?
Two carousel bands have been parked behind Marine Crescent for a total of eight weeks
and despite being given numerous parking tickets, up until Saturday no action had been taken.
They are using the wooded areas below the Leeses toilet and are also dumping their waste
and rubbish there. Not only is this a health hazard, it is also unfair to residents in
that area who pay for permit parking. Can I also remind the council that this area is
conservation area and as such efforts need to be made to protect it.
Thank you, Councillor King.
Councillor Fogg, do you want to go?
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:24:51
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:24:53
Many thanks for the question, Councillor King.
Civil enforcement officers regularly monitor the area behind marine crescent and enforce
the parking restrictions in place.
As you have noted, 20 penalty charge notices were issued to a vehicle between April and
July.
This vehicle, as you know, also has now been seized by the police as it was untaxed.
We hope this action will encourage the owner to remove the caravan also from the location.
Unfortunately, the parking team does not have the legal powers to clamp or remove vehicles.
These powers only become available once a case has progressed through the statutory
enforcement process, reached the debt registration stage and been passed to enforcement agents.
If the outstanding debt remains unpaid at that point, enforcement agents may then take
action to clamp or remove the vehicle.
Officers have assured me that all cases are being progressed
as quickly as possible and in accordance
with the statutory enforcement process.
We will continue to monitor the situation
and take appropriate enforcement action
where legislation permits.
Working alongside parking enforcement,
the environmental enforcement team contact all known vans
and tents in the district where the applicants
are considered to be homeless
and this is one of those many cases.
A process is in place to ensure that any welfare concerns
are assessed and support offered
before any attempt is made to move them.
The officers work with the individuals
to understand their long -term plan
and how that can be realised.
During this time, all support services needed
are contacted or discussed in CSU
or homeless meetings with internal staff
where any advice can be given to the occupant.
There's no excuse for individuals to plough the land.
We do encourage the use of toilets
and detail the risk of a fixed penalty notice or warning.
However, there is nothing to be gained
by issuing a fixed penalty to someone who is homeless
and who will be unable to pay the charge
and could therefore be pushed into begging
or other actions to obtain the funds to pay it.
It is unlikely to meet the public interest test
to issue a fine and give a criminal conviction
against a homeless person who does not have
their own accommodation with bathroom facilities.
As you know, homelessness is not an easy problem
to solve as many individuals have complex needs
and support requirements.
The service is being cut and longer waiting times
to access services, position remains difficult at best.
Any action to remove the vehicle,
unless causing an obstruction or alarm and distress
to the public, would just mean removing it from one road
and they would probably simply move to another
and the work then starts again.
So support and guidance must be the first steps
taken to help those who are homeless
as we work with them to help them out
of their current situation, but this is not a quick process.
And I would just add to that, that currently,
our environmental enforcement team are spending
a huge disproportionate amount of their time
on just these kind of complex cases,
with homeless living in vans and caravans
and other vehicles.
Thank you, Councillor Bicknell.
Councillor Keene, do you have a relevant supplementary?
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:27:59
Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:28:00
Well, yeah, I just wondered if the parking tickets
that we're giving to residents in the CPZ area
then can be suspended,
because they can't park near their homes.
Their vehicles are legal, and they're paying for parking.
They know that doesn't guarantee them parking,
but the gentleman that is behind Marine Parade,
at Crescent, he's working.
He works every day, he works nearby every day,
and the second caravan is the same.
This is totally unfair to residents
who pay council tax to live in our borough,
and also pay CPZ.
So can we start to think about our residents
and maybe enforce this in a better way?
Because I, every week, get the same phone call,
we can't park.
It's not fair.
Thank you, Councillor Keating.
Councillor Pignell.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:28:50
Yeah, I think we have to look after our residents
and we have to look after the homeless people
living in our district.
They can go through the appeal process
for their CPZ tickets, but as you know,
their permit is no guarantee that they can park,
but if they feel they've been unfairly discriminated
against because of others being parked there,
they can go through the process
that everyone else is peeling a parking ticket.
Thank you, Councillor Bicknell.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:29:17
Item eight on the agenda is announcements
from the leader of the council,
Councillor Jim Martin, over to you.

8 Announcements of the Leader of the Council

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:29:32
Thank you very much, Chair, and good evening, members. As you know, Chair, I pride myself
on being a leader who listens. I was recently listening to Councillor Nicky Keene when she
said, Jim, during your announcements, could you just be a little less boring? So tonight
I will.
I have changed the format of my usual announcements,
but I can confirm to members that I have undertaken
all of my usual meetings, activities, engagements, et cetera.
This evening, I want to talk about the present
and the future.
But to consider the present, I first want to refer
to my first week as leader in May, 2023,
which was quite intense.
On Monday, our CEO wanted to know how we were going to deal with the £4 .5 million budget
deficit.
On Tuesday, our CEO wanted to know how we were going to deal with the £4 million write -off
on Princes Parade.
And then on Wednesday, our CEO wanted to know how we were going to attract the £100 million
investment necessary for Otterpool Park.
On Thursday, our CEO wanted to know how we were going to keep staff morale up and stop
essential members of staff leaving.
On Friday, I went for a lie down in a darkened room.
But before I did, our CEO asked me, what did I want from our council?
If I had one wish for the council, what would it be?
And I immediately said, competency.
So, what is a competent council and how do we measure it?
Tonight, I want to set out several measures that I would suggest answer that question.
Number one, we have reported a balanced budget three years in a row and I am confident that
we will make it four.
The major write -off for Princes Parade has been successfully managed within our accounts
and I heard the portfolio holder this evening say we were in a robust financial position.
We have attracted significant investment from Homes England in Otterpool Park. We have a
very high level of staff satisfaction compared with other councils. All of our staff work
hard, face daily challenges and their combined contribution is much more than the sum of
its parts. From our recent Council -wide survey, 90 % of our staff say they feel proud to work
for FHDC. Our Employee Net Promoter Score provides a way to benchmark employee engagement
against organisations across the public, private and voluntary sector. Our 2020 score is plus
plus 48, placing us way ahead of the likes of Google, Netflix, Amazon and a host of other
major organisations.
Our resident survey satisfaction results are outstanding.
We have been praised for our decarbonisation and our Decent Homes programmes.
We are on track to deliver 200 % above our original housing target.
For residents who have contacted the Council for support, overall satisfaction with our
customer support service is 93%.
Tenant feedback on overall satisfaction within our housing service and the Council's role
as a landlord scores more highly than comparable Councils in our peer group.
Alongside this, I can point to continued strong performance across essential resident -focused
services such as waste collection, planning, housing repairs and the list goes on.
As members know, we have recently been assessed by the regulator of social housing and we
await its formal announcement on 29 July.
Regarding our official rating, what I can say is, having personally been interviewed
by the Housing Regulator, I am both hopeful and very, very confident that we will receive
an excellent result.
I have one final measure of our competence.
I note from the published papers going to Audit and Governance this month that the Auditor's
Annual Report on our overall performance states a conclusion of substantial assurance.
The Auditor advised that this conclusion of substantial assurance is the very first she
has been able to make on any Council in a long and very distinguished career.
I will no doubt return to all of these measures during future meetings, but tonight I simply
We want to thank all members in this chamber for contributing so significantly and so positively
to our progress as a Council.
You all deserve recognition.
I want to thank all members of the Cabinet for working so hard in their respective portfolios
and I want to naturally thank all of the Officers, heroes, every one of them, for delivering
my wish of competency.
Looking to the future, members will have heard that the Government's announcement regarding
local government reorganisation, which is option 4B, divides Kent into four unitary
authorities. We will be part of the Mid Kent Unitary Council, along with Ashford and Swale,
along with services currently delivered by KCC. While 4B was not the option we voted
for it is, in my view, a far better option than 4D, which would have divided us in two.
We now have a very short timetable to work within, but I can assure members that we are
prepared. We will engage purposefully and I hope members will support my purposeful
engagement to achieve the best outcome for our residents. As with everything we do, we
will progress confidently.
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Jim.
I'd like now to invite opposition response,
Councillor Lockwood.
Thank you, Chair, and as ever, thank you, Jim,
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 0:36:39
for all the work you do and all the visits
and things that, and we have no idea what they are
this month, you haven't said, so I will take
this opportunity to thank the Chair for all the visits
he did that we do know about. But more importantly, and to follow up from the points you made,
the army of people behind you, the leader, the chair, cabinet members, us, members, and
all the support we get from the army of officers that worked so hard for this council. And
thank you for highlighting that. And we echo those words.
2023 was a time of change and when we were all elected to this chamber, it was a change
in administration and we did inherit some significant issues, some of which came from
previous administration but some of which none of us could do anything about which was
hangover from COVID, a war in Ukraine, a mini budget.
Don't want to talk about that.
So, and I think we've all worked together and responded
amazingly well to all of those challenges
to get where we are today.
So thank you for that.
You mentioned housing a few times,
Otter Paul and the inspectors on.
I'm gonna talk about that later, so I'll park that for now.
and on local government reorganisation,
we've ended up with 4B,
which nobody in this room voted for.
However, from a voting point of view,
if you're the government,
they have picked a unitary which seven councils,
three councils voted for,
and seven councils have ended up
in the unitary that they voted for.
So in that respect, if you're the government, they probably picked the best model they could.
And I imagine that everybody in this room thinks that we've dodged a bullet.
You believe we've dodged splitting the districts up and boundary changes, and I'm sure our
officers are pleased that we haven't got to go through that process.
and I also think we've dodged a bullet of brilliant in terms of not ending up in this
super East Kent, massive East Kent Council that I don't think would have worked. So all
I can do to finish this is say that we are in 4B and there are no other models available.
Okay, thank you, Councilman.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:39:28
Councilman, this is Jenny Hollingsby, thank you.
Well, I'm not quite sure how to start this,
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:39:34
but of course, what you're actually saying here
is what all councils face when they come in at the start.
So most of us have been asked these questions,
and most of us have been able to answer them
in very similar vein.
I haven't had the opportunity to go through,
but obviously I could have responded
on every individual list, but of course I won't.
And I'm very pleased that you have carried on
with the Otterpool project that we started,
and I'm keen on, and I'm always keen on,
and I will always be mentioning you that.
And I'm just hoping that it does materialise.
And now of course that we are in mid -Kent
with Ashford, that gives us more opportunities, I think,
and certainly it will be, it will help, should I say,
the housing numbers for Ashford,
and actually, presumably Swale as well,
so, you know, I suppose it's what's this space.
Of course, I mean, I'm very keen,
and our chief exec will tell you,
I'm always keen on staff morale, how staff are doing,
And of course it's really, really important that we get staff satisfaction.
And I'm proud, like we're all proud of the staff that we have.
I mean I've been involved obviously quite a long time.
I know quite a lot of officers and I find them absolutely amazing.
If I want to ask something, very accommodating, even though I'm not part of the administration now,
They would give me answers.
In fact, I think I spoke to Andy Day this afternoon when I called him in the office, asked him a question,
and within a few minutes he got the answer back to me, which is absolutely great.
And I think we need to say thank you.
And we do quite often to our officers.
We are very grateful to them, and especially with the LGR.
It's great that a resident's satisfaction is good, of course that's what we want, in fact that's what we're all here for, aren't we?
To do our best for our residents and make sure that they're happy and that we can do the best for them.
Of course our administration actually took the housing service back in house
and my colleague here was very much involved in that and it was very
successful. I think I've talked about LGR. I mean I think it's probably
probably the best of a bad bunch but I think we need to be very positive and
talk about it as a banana. I'm sure Councillor Lockwood brought in some bananas.
or somebody bought some bananas.
And I think, you know, we need to move forward,
we need to be positive, we need to work with our colleagues
and make it a success.
And I'd just like to say thank you to everybody.
Thank you, Councillor Hightower.
Councillor Martin, would you like to respond?
Thank you.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:42:52
Thank you very much, thank you both.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:42:55
And yes, I think acknowledging Councillor Godfrey by name
the journey that our housing has been on from,
let's be honest, we self -referred to avoid going
into special measures to where we are.
I'm so frustrated I can't tell you what the result is,
but to where we are, believe me,
is a really, really, really significant journey.
But I promise you this, I will talk you to death
about that.
So I'm very, very keen for everyone to,
everyone is in this room because we care
about our communities.
And the snapshot that I've delivered
just in my announcements is how we, as a council,
have competently led, competently coped with,
competently facilitated, competently served our communities.
And, you know, I think as you said, that's what we're all here to do.
So, tonight you can all go home saying, well, it's a good job done.
I've done what I've turned up to do.
So, thank you very much, all of you. Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Could I have a proposal for Councillor...
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:44:22
I think that's Councillor Prater and a seconder, Councillor Jim Martin.
All those in favour? That's unanimous. Thank you very much.

9 Portfolio Holder reports to Council

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:44:35
Item 9 is portfolio holder reports to the Council. They are as per the pack, so thank you
very much for those comprehensive reports. I think it fits in very nicely with what
the leaders already said in terms of the work that they do. It's very evident
that they are very busy people. Item number 10 is opposition business. We don't have

10 Opposition Business

any opposition business. Item 11, this motion is on notice.

11 Motions on Notice

We do have one item which is from Councillor Alan Martin.
Please note that Councillor Alan Martin has submitted an alteration
to his original motion ahead of the meeting.
That has been sent out to all members and therefore this will be the substantive.
So over to you, Councillor Martin. Thank you.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:45:23
First of all, just in terms of the amendment,
so obviously we published the original motion.
Councillor Scoffin reached out and had some,
I think, valuable additions and suggestions
in terms of additional things we need to put
into the motion, so we had a conversation
around that yesterday.
That conversation briefly incorporated
Councillor Lockwood, and off the back
of that conversation, we thought it made sense
to put through an amendment ahead of today.
Just to highlight the change, so the opening paragraph is still the same, so our concern
around these large solar farms being proposed, they're on such a scale that the decision
is going to be made at a national level because these are sort of considered national infrastructure
and therefore we want to make sure that the council resolves to do things in a certain
way that ensures that we look after the views of our residents and our own views of what
So the three things that we're asking for within the motion, first of all is that we
reaffirm that cumulative impact must be treated as a material planning consideration and ensure
that the Council highlights the potential cumulative impact of all three developments
when considering its response to each individual proposal if forced to do so on different timelines.
I'll speak a little bit more about that in a second.
The area that we changed most relates on our call on government.
We've now got two calls on government.
The first is to introduce a cap on the amount of best and most valuable agricultural land that can be converted to solar use.
And the second relates to our ask that they develop a national spatial solar energy strategy that would identify sites around the country suitable for ground -mounted solar.
and I'll speak a little bit more about that in a second,
and I think Councillor Scoffin will as well.
The final bullet point remains unchanged,
and that's all around making sure that our residents,
our councillors, our parish and town councils
are well equipped to feed into the various
consultation processes, because we as a council
aren't involved in the decision -making ourselves,
and it's important people actually put their voice forward.
So to introduce the motion, if I may, just to provide a little bit of context.
So we all know residents are very concerned about the scale of each development and the
impact it will have on our area.
And I think members and the planning team share and are very much alive to those concerns.
And anyone who was at the planning meeting yesterday would have heard that loud and clear.
And of course, we're having meetings like the one
we had last night with the planning team
and the planning committee taking this topic very seriously.
Crucially, whilst each development raises concerns
that need to be articulated and addressed collectively,
these three developments, if they were to proceed,
would have a devastating cumulative impact on our area.
And so the aim of this motion really
is to ensure that we as a council
put our strongest foot forward
and represent the concerns of our residents
throughout the decision making process,
which is gonna be fragmented
across three separate developments.
And there are a number of issues
that we're looking to address with this motion.
The first is that whilst the council will be consulted
and it will have the opportunity
to influence each development,
and we're not part of that formal decision making process.
And it's important that we have the wider community alert
to the fact that they also need to convey their concerns
and not just rely on us.
Secondly, each development is independent
and working to a different timeline.
And we will therefore be asked to contribute
to separate consultation processes happening
at different points in time, which in my mind
makes it difficult for us as a council
to make sure that we are responding to each
in an appropriate way.
We have no real clarity the extent to which decisions
will ultimately be made, taking account of the context
of multiple developments running concurrently.
And Councillor Martin did write a letter on behalf
of the council asking the Secretary of State
to try and bring an element of coordination
so that the developments would all be looked at in one go.
And we didn't really get a favourable response to that.
There aren't really any clear rules around cumulative impact and caps on the use of agricultural land
that provides us with any real confidence in how a decision might be influenced by these factors
when considering the different developments that are being pursued.
And in the absence of some form of national strategy that looks at the most suitable sites around the country for solar development,
we're facing proposal in areas where developers
are opportunistically seeing potential
and not necessarily the areas that are best suited
for such developments.
And therefore that's why we go for those three points
that we're asking for in the motion.
So making sure that we in our decision making
take account of cumulative impact
when we're engaging in any one of those
independent consultation processes
that we always return people's attention to that
cumulative impact. I call on the government in those two areas around
capsuling use of agricultural land and whether they can form a top -down
strategy that would in some way provide some structure to how decisions would be
made around the various developments. And then finally anything we can do as a
council to make sure that our residents, our Parisian town councils and we as
Councillors are best equipped to put our own concerns and thoughts forward as part of the various consultation
Processes to back up what we as a council already have planned. So that's the context behind
The motion that we're putting forward. I hope it gets strong support in the room, but I'm very keen to hear everyone's thoughts
Thank You council, Martin council scuffle
Yeah, I'd certainly like to second
and the amendment and thank you,
Councillor Martin for covering a lot of ground
in your introduction.
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:51:55
So some of the things I was thinking of saying,
probably slightly similar but slightly different storey
perhaps, I'm going to start by just reaffirming
that I support solar energy.
I think it's really important and we need it.
And that's one of the things which I was saying
on the doorstep three years ago.
The alternative, now called renewable energy
is essential if we're going to move from a fossil fuel economy.
And that is absolutely clear at the moment as we are witnessing heat waves and forest fires and so on,
breaking out in all sorts of places.
The fossil fuel economy is doing us immense harm.
So everything that we can do towards moving towards renewable energy is to be welcomed.
and that includes solar, but it also includes,
I would like to think, tidal, because Britain
has the second biggest tidal surges in the world,
apart from Canada's number one, we're number two.
Huge amount of energy, think of all that water
slopping around our shores.
Think of the tides from the tidal rips,
Pentland Firth, for example, up in the north of Scotland,
is a particularly good place for tidal power.
Absolutely reliable.
Solar power can't be relied on every day, we know that.
Not very good in the winter either.
It's good at the moment, if it's a sunny day.
But, tidal energy, wave power, those sources are much, much more reliable.
I'm always amazed that we're not doing more on that.
But coming back to my point, this council approves solar farms.
We approved the proposal for Martins Farm and there was a good reason for doing that.
and I remember saying at the time that the right solar,
sounds a bit trite, doesn't it?
That the right solar in the right place,
and that's what I stand for,
the right solar in the right place.
Now those three applications that have come in
and are pending from Le Marche
raise in my mind some really important questions.
Does it make sense that 80 % or more of the land
which those farms are going to be on, if they're approved,
are on best and most valuable land.
When we know that in other parts of the country
there are other bits of land which are not
best and most valuable, and we talked nationally
about food security and the need for national security
and we don't want to be dependent on other people
more than we need to sometimes.
We want to have some degree of resilience, et cetera,
et cetera, and yet we're looking at a development
on best and most valuable land.
Another point to note is that we don't know
how climate change is going to play out.
I was slightly surprised that the proposal for South Brooks
is a 60 year proposal and not a 40 year proposal.
40 years seemed to be the going rate as it were.
60 years takes us towards the end of the century.
We could expect major climate change implications
even if we could get down to net zero today.
By 2021, they're going to be dramatic changes
and we don't know how that's going to play out.
The Romney Marsh area is low lying, that's incontrovertible,
it is well defended and hopefully will remain well defended,
but who can tell?
And Storm Goretty reminded us that a freak event
can carry off concrete balustrades absolutely just like that
without even, I don't think it was anybody's brisk assessment
that the Mermaid Beach area would be affected
in the way that it was.
And that's just the beginning of a period
of great uncertainty.
So there are things there to take into account.
Then there's the question of scale.
These are huge developments covering a vast amount of land.
Is that appropriate to concentrate so much
in a particular place and why is that happening?
And the last question which I wanted to raise was,
well, who benefits from this concentration?
Is it for the needs of Romley Marsh?
Is it for the needs of the district more generally?
Or is it for other considerations?
Where's that energy going, as it were,
is it actually a sacrifice for the people of the marsh
who are sacrificing their land, their landscape
for something else?
Our land, our landscape for something else.
So we're looking at clustering.
That's been going on around the country.
Lincolnshire's a good example.
Romley Marsh appears to be another.
And one suspects that the reason for the clustering
is commercial.
There's a connexion to the grid
and there's money to be made.
And so I get the feeling as I look at what's going on,
that what we're looking at is a bonanza,
a sort of dash of solar, a sort of modern gold rush,
because that seems to be what's going on.
And it's not in the interest of local people,
by and large, it's of those considerable,
as we know, very considerable local opposition.
So I support solar, I support renewables,
I think they're essential, the right solar
in the right place, and the reason I support this motion
is that it's calling on the government,
particularly to come up with a strategy.
It's madness to have piecemeal strategy
and to do these things one by one without an overview.
And as council, we just spent a lot of time
thinking about swimming pools.
Four possible sites, which one's the best?
Are we going to do something at Otterpool?
Are we going to do something at Martello Lakes?
What about Hyde?
Overall strategy, we do strategies
till they come out of our ears.
Where is the strategy that this government
or is producing for solar.
We need to call for this,
and that's why I support this motion
and urge you to do the same.
Thank you, Councillor Scochill.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:57:34
I'll now open this up to debate,
as we have a proposer and a second.
I will ask Councillor Martin and Alan Martin
to sum up at the end.
So the first speaker is Councillor Jackie Meade.
Thank you.
Thank you very much, Chair.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:57:49
I welcome about 80 % of this motion,
which is the second part, the call on government,
introduce a cap, develop the spatial solar,
and also produce a clear accessible guide.
The problem I have is the very first point.
Reaffirm that cumulative impact must be treated
as a material planning consideration.
It's not.
It's not at our level.
We can't do it.
So we can affirm it all we like,
but unless the legislation is changed to allow us
to take full cumulative impact into consideration,
we can't.
We have raised it regarding this particular application,
as you know yourself yesterday,
and I'd like to thank all of the committee yesterday
because we worked really well to raise the issues.
But it's something that we can't do at our level.
So I was going to suggest, I also think we're missing a trick with this,
because as much as we've got three applications for solar at the moment,
that's not to say there isn't going to be a fourth, a fifth, a sixth, a seventh and an eighth.
So actually mentioning that there are three solar farms, I think we're missing a trick.
And also another thing that often comes up in planning is that we've got so many houses here,
we've taken so many houses.
And again, we're not allowed to take the cumulative
into consideration.
So I would suggest that opposed to number one
being a separate point, we actually put it in under
call on the government and along these lines, if I may,
change legislation in that it can be treated
as material consideration and allow us to make that decision where numerous applications
are in an area or indeed come forward over a certain timeline.
I believe that will strengthen it.
It will give us the opportunity, hopefully, to actually allow cumulative material planning
decisions and not just for solar farms but also for building of other areas and other
buildings.
Thank you.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:00:15
So can I just ask Councillor Meade, are you proposing that as an amendment to this motion?
Yes, just to transmit, Chair.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:00:21
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:00:21
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:00:25
Councillor Alan Martin, you heard what Councillor Meade had to say.
Would you support the amendment to this motion?
Thank you.
Cllr Alan Martin - 1:00:34
Yes, as far as I'm concerned, absolutely, I think that's a really good strengthening
of that third section.
In terms of the...
In fact, when we were drafting the motion, we knew that we've got no decision -making
power anyway.
So our main point on cumulative impact was to make sure that we keep ramming that message
home because if we rely on our planning teams to tell us what we can and can't do in the
answer that's as strong as we would want to provide in terms of giving feedback.
I love the idea of us asking for legislation to change so yeah we can add
that as a third bullet point in that second section.
Okay I'll ask Councillor Scoughlin.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:01:19
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 1:01:20
Absolutely I agree completely. I think it's a very well pitched modification.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:01:29
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:01:31
We'll just wait to get the clarification of the actual wording.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:01:47
If we could just read out the proposed amendment then please and then that will become the
Mr Paul Butler - 1:02:03
Okay, so the amendment to the first bullet point reads as change legislation in that
cumulative impact can be treated as a material planning consideration where decisions are
made to allow numerous applications in an area come forward.
Is that right?
Yes.
And he's going on to getting through as we call on the government.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:02:58
Okay, so if I just ask Bob just to read it out.
And we're not, just to be clear, we're not removing the first bullet point from there.
Yes, no, because it's incorrect.
The first bullet point is incorrect.
Mr Paul Butler - 1:03:23
Yeah, so call on the government to...
I introduce a cap on the amount of best and most valuable BMV,
agricultural land that can be converted to solar use.
Two, develop a national spatial solar energy strategy.
This would identify sites around the country suitable for ground mounted solar.
three, change of legislation in that cumulative impact
can be treated as a material planning consideration
where decisions for numerous applications
in the area come forward.
Let me just cheque with Councillor Alan Martin that that's.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:03:57
Yeah, can I just cheque?
Cllr Alan Martin - 1:04:01
So I take your point, the first bit of the first bullet point
is incorrect.
I'd quite like the second part of that bullet point to stay
simply because whether, so I think what Councillor Mead
is saying is that it's incorrect to say that cumulative
impact can be treated as a material planning consideration.
But I would still like us to be highlighting
the cumulative impact of the three developments
when we are responding to the consultation.
And seeing we're not a decision maker,
I don't see why we need to be bound by planning rules there
because we're representing our residents' views
and our views as members.
Sorry.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:04:45
I'm gonna recommend that we just adjourn for five minutes,
okay, so we can just get that laid out
in a way that is satisfactory.
So I'll adjourn the meeting.

11 Motions on Notice

Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:04:57
I'd like to have a hand over to our CEO, thank you.
Sorry, may I?
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:05:16
Right, thank you, members, for your patience.
It is an important matter, and I know the depth and the breadth of the feeling on the
matter, so it is important that we get this right for you.
For clarity, the amended motion that was proposed and seconded reads as follows.
there are hard copies on your desk,
but for the benefit for the webcast,
it reads as follows.
As three large solar farms have been proposed in our area
at such scale that because they are classed
as national infrastructure,
this council is effectively sidelined
from decision making.
This council therefore resolves to ensure
that it highlights the potential cumulative impact
of all three developments when considering its response
to each individual proposal if forced to do so
on different timelines.
Call on government two, for one,
introduce a cap on the amount of best
and most valuable agricultural lands
that it can be converted to solar use.
Two, develop a national spatial solar energy strategy.
This would identify sites around the country
suitable for ground mounted solar, sorry,
and three, change legislation so that cumulative impact
can be treated as a material planning consideration
on decisions that are made where numerous applications in an area come forward.
Produce a clear accessible guide for residents on how to engage with national infrastructure consultations,
setting out the relevant material planning considerations,
ensuring that this guidance is actively shared with all ward councillors and town and parish councils
to ensure communities are properly informed and involved.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
So that is now the substantive that we will discuss.
So, Councillor Hill, also here.
Thank you, Chair.
Councillor Tony Hills - 1:07:14
It has evolved a bit since this afternoon,
but I'd like to just say a few words
about the overall concern.
By the way, I do think we have an opportunity at the moment
with a change of administration in Westminster.
We might have some people who,
So, yeah, I'd say a bit more sensible in control.
And hopefully they might be more immune to this
because what they're about to do to us
and other areas is cataclysmic.
I can't stress how dangerous these sort of proposals are.
You've got a 500 megawatt solar farm at South Brooks.
Another, next door, another 500 megawatt at Old Romney
South Kent and those two combined,
the spend is a billion pounds to build it.
And of course, we can start really want
to get out of this house.
But for those areas and for that marsh,
it could be the finish of the marsh.
Because we don't know what effects it's gonna have
on the balance of waterways in the marsh itself.
As Councillor Swaffen's quite eloquently said,
and I don't disagree with him,
we are under attack from climate change.
And there's nothing we can do about that.
we have to adapt and survive.
And we are proceeding that at the moment,
to adapt and survive on the march.
But it is like having a nuclear winter.
Because we had a, last night in the planning meeting,
we had a farmer here, from Westlake Farm on the marsh,
saying that if they could build this all around me,
I can't farm.
Because if all this building is going on,
and construction, how's he gonna get his drain trailers
through, or his combine harvester?
I followed a combine harvester home last night
and New Robert along their own.
It's gonna be very difficult to operate.
So we could find the untold effects.
It's not just where they could build the solar farms.
It's everything else that go out the window,
let alone tourism and things like that.
We also have at the same time stuff going on at Dungeness,
knocking down the site there at a station.
There'll be traffic for that.
There's the possibility of Cheneycourt Farm
being refurbished because it can't be end of its life
after 30 years of wind farm.
We don't know how any more schemes could come ahead.
So I think what we've got to do is try and punch above our weight.
I'd like to engage our MP on this, who I'm sure will be sympathetic.
I think we should engage our MP and put a strong case to government to look again.
They have this opportunity, there's a new Secretary of State in charge,
there's a chance, a small chink maybe, but a chance to change things.
so we should try and push that as hard as we can and be as transparent as we can with our residents
about what the risks are going forward.
Thank you, Councillor Hills.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:10:07
Thank you, Chair. I think most has been said, actually, but I just wanted to emphasise the
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 1:10:15
cumulative effect. We talked about that an awful lot last night at the meeting, and I think all the
points that have been noted or been mentioned
were included or are going to be included
in our response to this first application.
And so hopefully that will be a template for the other two.
Councillor Stoughton mentioned 60 years instead of 40 years.
That was one of the issues that I actually brought up
yesterday in the meeting.
And also the battery storage, I mentioned that
because it's quite close to,
I've got one quite close to our ward,
and the far risks there.
So, you know, there are a number of points
that have been brought up,
and all the other issues that have been mentioned,
or we are aware about, we're aware of.
The head of planning has been able to put that
into a planning speak, if you like,
to send a response to the government.
I think, I'm sure from last night we had a really good debate, I'm sure that we have actually covered all the issues that have been raised.
If we've got any more, I'm sure they will be put forward.
So I welcome this motion and will be supporting it of course.
Thank you, Councillor Hollingsby.
Councillor Lockwood.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:11:43
Thank you, Chair.
Just thank you to Councillor Martin, the other one, and Councillor Scofford and Councillor
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 1:11:51
Mead for bringing this together.
Just on Councillor Hill's point, I did get a briefing from Tony Bourne's office yesterday
ahead of the planning meeting.
And if we do in fact agree this today, this will help the work that he's doing.
and he said that we, he's in support of solar,
we should have our fair share of solar,
but this is not our fair share.
This is, and we need a national strategy
to work out who gets what, and then we take our bit.
I mean, the issue we have with Romley Marsh
is actually a very good place to put solar
because it's the sunniest place in the country,
and it's flat, and there's lots of space there.
So it's very attractive to people
who want to make lots of money, but that's to our detriment and the challenge that we
face.
But Tony's office is on the case, he will support us with this and this will help, so
I'm going to support this.
Thank you.
Councillor Fuller.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:12:58
I welcome this motion, let's start with that.
Cllr Gary Fuller - 1:13:02
It was interesting hearing talk actually of what's going on in Lincolnshire.
I went to school in Spaulding and there were plans to build an 1100 hectare solar farm
near Spaulding and it's very similar to the marsh.
It's flat, it used to be covered in marshes as it were.
It's exactly the same kind of place as we're looking at on the marsh.
Now, what I really like is that we,
is actually the addition of the national spatial
solar energy strategy to this,
because it makes it clear that we're not inherently
opposing solar by supporting this motion.
And I think as part of our pitch to government,
I think we should raise the fact that their own
chronic risk analysis, a national risk register,
note that climate change, yes,
but also food security are one of the significant
challenges we're facing,
and that they are interlinked, as it were.
We still import 40 % of our food.
If you are getting rid of even more farming land,
that number's gonna go up.
Yet our security services, our own government,
they all recognise that getting food into the country,
and indeed having enough food is going to be a significant challenge as part of climate
change but also as part of everything else that's going on in the world.
So as much emphasis as we can make on that when we contact government will be fantastic,
as it were.
And within that, I'd also like to suggest that the third part of the motion obviously
says about an accessible guide for residents, just without trying to amend the motion, I
don't think it needs amending, but I would just suggest that when we do that, that we
ensure that it's not just publicised to town and parish councils and councils, but also
we make sure it's on our website and it's somewhere prominent so that people can access
it easily. Because I get a lot of emails as a parish
Councillor, not all of those emails make it to the public, much as I might like them to.
Other than that, I really support this motion. The stronger the case we can make, the better.
Thank you to Councillor Martin, Councillor Stoughton and Councillor Meade for bringing
it forward and finessing it.
Thank you, Councillor Fuller. Before I, is there anybody else who would like to speak?
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:15:38
Oh, sorry, Councillor Cooper.
Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:15:44
Thank you, Chair. Can I also advise members, we've also got a solar farm already being
going to be built on the marsh that was approved several weeks ago. And I think we shouldn't
lose sight of that and also make reference to that in any communication with the government.
Because that again is additional space being used, it's additional resources, it's additional
roads and everything else being disrupted and it's also going to have an adverse potential
effect on visitors and tourist numbers and everything else associated with it. And that's
Councillor Hoos is saying and Councillor Edwards, I think we should involve the MP on this.
He has been seen in Parliament as saying that the Longy March is having a disproportionate effect
and I think a message from this Council to the MP would help in the course of that case
when he's discussing these things behind closed doors. Thank you.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:16:39
Okay, thank you very much. I'm not seeing any other hands.
So I will ask Councillor Martin to sum up.
Before I do, I'd just like to make a point
I think that has been made previously,
is that Romney Marsh has been the leader
of carbon -free generation before the term
was even thought about, as he has done for the last 50 years.
The biggest land -based wind farm in Kent
and the first solar farm in Kent as well.
So, you know, we've already been doing our bit.
So, Councillor Martin, over to you to sum up. Thank you.
Cllr Alan Martin - 1:17:17
Thank you, Chair. So, Jim earlier had some measures for a competent Council,
and one of the things that I've really enjoyed over the last three years is how on points of issue
that our residents are grappling with locally, we do actually across parties work really, really well together.
And I think this motion this evening
is a really good example of that actually.
I think it's quite humbling.
I'm not gonna spend too long summing up
because I actually think the motion that we've landed on
is a really good sort of sum of all the parts.
But I'll pick up just a couple of points.
Councillor Scotham I think speaks to this topic
so very, very well.
And I thank you for starting the process
of opening the motion up.
But I think, and I was amiss from saying this
in my opening, I think we're all supportive
of renewable energy and solar panel,
and solar power.
But it's gotta be the right size, in the right place,
and the people approving it need to be looking at,
logically things like what are we, what is the impact,
you know, what farm sort of agricultural land
are we gonna lose?
Are we doing too much in one region?
I think when you look at what's going on in the marsh
at the moment, it's difficult to conclude anything
other than the fact that it's chaotic
and a little bit scary.
Thank you also, Councillor Mead,
that's a really good build.
and Councillor Lockwood really heartened that Tony is on side with this and obviously you'll
have your communication channels with him and we're in your hands but if in any way
a wider group of members can support you in those conversations or whatever then we'd
be delighted to do so.
And then finally, Councillor Fuller,
I think your point is really well made
and kind of within that, this isn't a NIMBY thing.
I think when you look at the logical arguments,
kind of for and against, it takes you
in a certain direction here that our region already has,
to Councillor Thomas' point, it already has solar panels.
this council has just approved some solar panels,
we've had a wind farm for ages.
We've got an enormous power station,
although it's not generating anymore,
and local residents would love there to be another one.
So we're already doing quite a lot for the country,
and maybe there's more we can do,
but the process we go through to approve that
has got to be done in a fairer, more logical way.
So thank you everyone for what I thought
was an excellent debate,
and I'm very pleased with the motion wording that we now have.
Okay, thank you, Councillor Martin.
So we have a proposer and a seconder.
We'll do the vote with the show of hands.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:20:27
So all those in favour of the motion, you made the motion as provided.
That's unanimous.
I can see that's unanimous.
Thank you very much, Councillors, and thank you very much, Councillor Martin.
Item 12 on the agenda is the update to the Council's constitution.

12 Updates to the council's constitution

That's pages 37 to 178 in the pack.
And that is report A, 26 -13.
I'd just like to note that the Audit and Governance Committee also considered the report at an
extraordinary meeting held on the 7th of July, 2026.
And their recommendations are reflected in this report.
So I'd like to hand over to Councillor Perrotta.
Thank you.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:21:14
in the next hour discussing these constitutional changes,
I might not have the room with me.
Let's see how we go.
Paul has, as ever, just nicked my best lines.
This review of the constitution
comes from a number of recommendations
from reviews over the last three years,
I'm gonna mutter under my breath,
some of which are about just bringing ourselves
in line with some best practise.
This report captures those suggestions
and makes some further amendments
which support legislative changes
which have come forward in that time,
and just generally efficient decision making.
And as the chairman said,
the proposals went to A &G in July,
who considered them all in detail,
and suggested a number of amendments
and a number of changes,
and made some recommendations.
And all of those, without question,
are in the report and the amendments
which are in front of you, every last one.
So I'd like to thank Audit and Governance
for their detailed consideration and their time,
and I hope that the people who were there
can see that what they've done has improved
what we brought to council today.
I think if there's any debate,
I'll try and pick those up in summing up,
as we're keen to do the other four substantive items
on the agenda.
But one point I will pick up is around,
that may be the most controversial,
is around the proposing the slightly earlier
submission deadline for councilors' questions.
I hope 2 .8 .3 explains that.
it's simply to allow both officers
and the responding councillors a little bit more time
to get a complete answer together.
Because sometimes questions can be quite detailed,
and on current deadlines it can be quite difficult
when the input of a number of different officers
is needed in order to get that answer together.
But as 2 .8 .4 reminds us though,
and when I say reminds, I didn't know about it, I do now,
if things happen in the last few days before a meeting,
they can be addressed to an urgent question,
Because there is a proviso to do so up to noon on the day of the council meeting
subject to the consent of the chair and I know that the chair is wise and will take those requests seriously
So I'm happy to move the recommendations which I'm run with you and thank again
Ang for their time and work in amending the suggestions which went to them. Thank you
Thank you very much. Could I have a seconder councillor Holcates?
Yep, I won't take a huge amount of time other than, again,
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:23:36
Cllr Rich Holgate - 1:23:38
to thank officers for their work on that original constitution,
but also the A &G meeting that we did have,
I found it an incredibly useful committee meeting.
And the fact that, you know,
so many recommendations came forward and were all folded in,
I think is, you know, it puts, it makes that worthwhile.
So great to see.
Excellent bit of work, necessary bit of work,
and second the motion.
Thank you.
Second the item.
Thank you.
So, with the motion proposed by Councillor Prentice,
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:24:11
seconded by Councillor Holdit,
I'll now open it for debate if anybody would like to speak.
Councillor Jenny Hollingsley.
Thank you.
I'm not going to prolong anything,
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 1:24:22
but I just welcome the overview and scrutiny committee comments
and the, oh sorry, audit.
And I'm really pleased that those recommenders
recommendations are included. So thank you. And I'm surprised, Tim, you didn't know about urgent questions.
We've known about it for years. We haven't used it very often, but it has always been there. Thank you.
Thank you. Councillor Davidson.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:24:53
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:24:54
Yes, first of all, I'd like to confess to being a Councillor who does sometimes put questions in half an hour before the current deadline,
which may be one of the reasons for it moving,
I don't know.
I look forward to putting them in half an hour
before the new deadline at a slightly earlier stage.
And my question just relates to 3 .2 point H,
which I think is an addition in red,
just to ask for clarification as to whether that section
would be covered in section D,
up above which talks about the situations
in which information could be disclosed by a member.
And it does cover different examples.
So I'm just querying whether H is a kind of repetition
and should be captured in the section D above
to make sure that it is covered by those exemptions.
Does that make sense?
Mr Ewan Green - 1:26:05
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:26:09
I think it is part, if I am looking at the right thing, it is part 9 .5.
3 .2.
I don't have a page number.
I think it's just over on 68.
I think.
Yeah, so at the bottom of 3 .2,
there is an additional point H in red.
And is that a repetition or a kind of more explicit way
of saying what's in section D,
which talks about disclosure of information,
but then talks about the situations
in which information could be disclosed.
And they don't appear under H, those exemptions.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:27:39
Thank you Councillor Davidson. Yes, I think the point you're making is correct. I'm very
Mr Ewan Green - 1:27:48
happy, I think, to change this following the meeting and confirm that with Councillor Craitor
as a current member.
That's great. Thank you. I think it is important that it's covered by those exemptions. Thanks.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:28:00
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:28:06
So just to be clear then, so item H which is on page 68 of the printed pack is a repetition
of D which is on page 67, is that correct?
So the proposal is to take that, is to take each out.
Okay, great, thank you.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:28:26
Yeah, I think the point is that there are circumstances in which information could be
disclosed as is set out in point D and it's important that those are captured in that
that point is captured under there as well. Thanks.
That's good. Thank you very much for that.
Councillor Mike Blakemore.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:28:40
Thank you, Chair.
There's a couple of very minor queries out,
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 1:28:45
just to demonstrate that I've read the paper.
Both on page 165, on planning and licencing,
I just wondered why we specify,
those wishing to speak give notice by 5pm on the Thursday before the meeting,
why we don't do the same as we're doing for Council
for questions, for instance, and give a certain number
of days before the meeting, because this is the assumption
is that the meetings will be on the Tuesday evening,
just as we're, so why are we assuming that the planning
meeting will always be on the Tuesday, why not have it
a certain number of days before the meeting in the same way
as we would with Council for questions, because after all,
full Council is normally on a Wednesday, but we specify
a number of days, so that was that.
And in 1 .165, it says if there are no public speakers
on a particular application, no late request to speak will be accepted.
Isn't it the case that no late request to speak will be accepted anyway,
whether or not there are any speakers on the application?
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:29:46
Councillor Neill. Sorry, I can answer that one. The chair
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:29:52
has the right to accept a late speaker, should they so wish to.
Is that contingent on there not being any other public speakers?
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 1:30:01
If someone comes forward late and the chair believes that they have a valid point, even
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:30:12
if there are other speakers, the chair can allow that person to speak.
Go ahead, sorry.
Mr Ewan Green - 1:30:23
Thank you, Councillor Maye. You've made a couple of points here that I think are really there just through protocol and what's happened previously.
But if you'd allow me again to take that away and have a look at it, then I'll have to come back to all members with the clarification.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:30:41
Just to be clear, that's on both of those points or just on 16 .3?
On both.
Okay, thank you.
Mr Ewan Green - 1:30:45
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:30:47
Anybody else wishing to speak?
Councillor Lockwood.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:30:50
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 1:30:55
Yeah, thank you, Chair. I'll be very brief. It was just to say a thank you, really, and
to follow on from what two of the Councillor Martins have now said, with respect to working
together. I asked a question about if the deadline for questions comes back, we might
lose the ability to question what portfolio holders have written in their reports. That
was accommodated. I just wanted to say thank you for that. And it's good to hear committees
working well.
Any other speakers?
I can't see anything.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:31:27
We've got a proposal in a second.
I'd like to ask Councillor Prater to sum up.
Thank you.
Thank you for those people who have made helpful suggestions.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:31:39
You get to go on A &G next time.
I'm looking at you both.
Obviously, if we accept this this evening, we'll come back with those points of clarification
and make sure we haven't either duplicated
or be confused of the situation,
but we'll make sure that comes back
a past clarification.
But thank you for the input.
So we got proposed in a second.
We'll do this on a show of hands.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:32:05
So all those before this change to the Constitution.
And I can see that that's unanimous as well.
Thank you very much, councillors.

13 Analogue to Digital implications for the Lifeline 365 Service

Item 13 on the agenda is analogue to digital implications of the Lifeline service 365.
That's report 82611.
I'll hand over to Councillor Mclinkin.
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 1:32:34
Yeah, earlier Jim took us back to 2023, but back in 2017, the telecom industry announced
that its intention to try to retire the analogue telephone network in favour of moving over
to digital.
That is apparently finally going to happen January next year.
So this is about transferring all of our Lifeline clients onto a digital system.
It requires the size of an investment as you can see, but that money will be recouped from
payments over the following years, about five years I believe.
There's a real risk if we don't do this that their Lifeline systems will fail and they're
obviously vulnerable people.
We don't want to run that risk.
So what we want to do is to be proactive about this,
to switch everyone over to digital
over the coming six months or so.
We'll draw the money from the reserves to do that,
and then the money will be paid back
from the income that we receive in the following years.
So it's a really important thing that we do.
I hope that members will support it.
Thank you, could I have a seconder?
It's Councillor Prater.
Would you like to speak?
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:33:41
No, just to make the point as Mike made, though there is a sizeable upfront cost in this,
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:33:47
it's recouped over five years and therefore it's financially neutral over that period
of time, but is absolutely crucial in terms of making a vital service, continue to make
a vital service available to both our residents and actually residents outside the district,
so I strongly support it.
Thank you very much. So we have a proposal and a seconder.
Councillor Meade.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:34:09
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:34:13
Thank you, Chair. Yes, thank you, British Telecom, for actually putting people at risk,
because that's basically what this is doing. I don't believe we have any choice whatsoever,
but to give our elderly and our vulnerable people this lifeline. I have grave concerns,
especially down on the marsh, where the signal is so poor, and I know that they're going
put the best sim in possible, but with the best one in the world, I think there will
be problems. So I would just ask, and I'm sure this will go through, I would just ask
if our staff or whoever would be involved do take particular care regarding the vulnerable
people on the marsh that actually look at it because the signal is so poor down there.
Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Meade.
Thank you, Councillor Cooper.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:35:02
Thank you, Chair. Could I just ask a question, please?
In respect of clients, tenants, etc, paying for these services,
Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:35:09
years ago there used to be a thing called
supporting people as part of housing benefits.
Is that still available to you, where tenants
or would that not be available now?
In respect of paying for it, do you know?
Thank you, Councillor Borton.
I don't know if I've stopped my head. Happy to find out.
Okay, thank you. Cheers.
Okay, Councillor Keane.
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 1:35:29
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:35:31
The concern is a lot of elderly people are going to see this as a debt and we are going
Cllr Nicola Keen - 1:35:37
to pay it back over five years. I don't think this is fair on those who are just on state
benefits. We discussed this in our group the other night and I made it clear that this
shouldn't be something that someone has to think about paying for. I know it's going
to be a big outlay but I do think it's got to be means tested. There are going to be
the elderly people in my ward that can't afford this.
And I'm just waiting for the calls to start
because when it was muted before,
it really stressed a lot of the elderly out.
A lot of elderly haven't got big private pensions
to fall back on, they haven't got savings
because they've used that over the years.
And I just think that this is,
that we're actually making them pay
for something they need.
This has got to be looked at and looked at sensibly
because there are going to be people who refuse it based on the fact that they are going to
see it as debt and that they can't afford it.
I think it's wrong.
I don't think someone's health and safety in their health should be left dangling like
that.
There will be people who won't take it up.
Councillor Blakemore, would you like to respond?
Or Councillor Preiser?
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:36:53
Okay, we'll do that in a minute.
Councillor Fuller.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:37:00
Cllr Gary Fuller - 1:37:02
I just wanted to briefly respond to the point Jackie raised about phone signal, because
I had a similar concern, and from memory, and it is from memory, the SIMs that they're
using can effectively switch networks, so they're not bound to a single phone network
like the rest of us are, which actually vastly increase the likelihood that you're going to get a half decent signal.
Officers may wish to correct me on that one, but that's my memory of that query.
Just on the point that Nicola raised, it is worth noting that the people that are going to be switched are already paying for the service.
But I do see the point they're actually going to be paying more, which is mentioned in the thing, but they are already paying.
So just worth mentioning.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:37:49
Okay, anybody else like to speak here?
Councillor Tenhills.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:37:51
Just a quick thing.
I totally agree what's been said by Councillor Keene
and Councillor Mead.
Councillor Tony Hills - 1:37:58
The connectivity on the marsh is not good and around here
round lead rather.
We have a lot of problems.
So is it I am very concerned about this.
Also, a lot of people can't afford much either.
It is getting worse day by day.
I would like people to be aware of that.
That is why I am part of the world which could suffer if it is not monitored properly.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Councillor Davidson.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:38:28
Thank you.
I think this is an issue that people have been worried about for some time, isn't it?
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:38:35
and I think when decisions are kind of made
that people feel that this is not our decision,
it's happening elsewhere, but it's challenging
when people don't have control over it, I think,
to decide how they're going to deal with it.
I think there's probably quite a lot of importance
in terms of the tone of the letter that goes to people,
thinking that needs to be sensitive,
and also thinking through what will the position be
for people where the costs are going up,
they're going to find that a challenge to deal with.
How can we make sure that nobody's
going to be excluded from having it, who needs to have it?
Because if people don't take it up,
that's only going to lead to problems further down the line.
It will affect other people in the community
around those individuals as well.
So I think we really need to try and have a good transition that
supports people. My other question is about what's the backup to the service if it goes
down because it talks in here about the batteries under the analogue system. But I'm not sure
what happens when that system goes down. What will be in place to make sure those people
can still call for help if they need to.
Thank you very much, Councillor Baitin.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:39:57
Any other speakers?
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:40:05
Councillor Walker.
Just to say that these are syndrome -king phones are quite good.
I had one.
Cllr Alan Martin - 1:40:21
I worked for the NHS, but they do fail.
So I think contingency plans, especially for the Lidir of Romy Marsh and some parts of
Limage are quite very important because it is literally a matter of life and death for
some people.
Okay, thank you very much, Councillor Walker.
Anybody else?
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:40:38
If not, I'll ask Councillor Blakemore to sum up, thank you.
Yeah, thank you everyone for your comments.
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 1:40:49
I do think what we're trying to do here is to avoid these people being left without a
service, which they will be, potentially if we don't do this.
We're not doing it to drive more income from this, quite the opposite.
What we're doing is providing a cost -effective service.
There are other competitors out there.
And if we don't charge an appropriate rate, then people will leave.
So we're not charging any more than we need to to cover the costs of the service.
It's not to drive income.
I know the system is very robust.
I hear what you're saying about the Marsh, but I am assured that the system works very effectively.
No system is entirely foolproof, but I know that this system instils a lot of confidence.
And I don't think we have any choice really other than to do this.
to not to do so would be to put those vulnerable people
at much greater risk.
Thank you, Councillor, I'd like more.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:41:51
So we have a proposer and a seconder.
I would ask for all those in favour of the paper, please.
All those in favour.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:42:12
That was against and abstentions.
So we've got one abstention.
So that's carried.
Thank you very much.

14 Ship Street Project - Update and Request for additional Capital funding

Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:42:20
Item 14 on the agenda, Ship Street Project update and request for additional funding.
Councillor McConville, thank you.
Thank you, Chair.
Good evening, members.
Cllr Connor McConville - 1:42:35
So, I had this discussion in cabinet earlier,
so, but just to sort of recap some of that,
this project for me, being an East Folkestone Ward,
is something that I've been involved with
for over seven years now.
And like I say, people always say it takes a long time
to do anything in local government.
I'd just like to say a huge thank you
to all the officers over the years
that have worked on this project.
Countless, countless, countless hours
going to the drawing board and back again
and then again and again,
trying to find partners, developers, funding,
a huge monumental piece of work
to try and bring forward this housing site.
There is good news and there is not so good news.
The good news is that there is someone out there
that is interested in the site
and we could make a few small changes
as outlined in the report to hopefully get that over the line
and we can get this site out
to be turned into affordable housing.
To do that, we need a little bit more capital, 132 ,000, which is outlined in the report.
I mean, there has been a considerable spend to date, over 800, so I would urge members
to see the project through to the end.
There are still some risks in the project, most notably with biodiversity net gain and
and there's conversations happening in central government,
which could impact that one way or the other.
But as I said in cabinet,
the small risks that are still associated with the site
are far outweighed by the need to deliver
much needed housing, affordable housing in the area,
social housing.
And so I would ask council to support the recommendations
to allow us to have a little bit more budget,
which is in our capital programme
so we can get this project over the line.
The risk of not doing so would mean
that we'd have to go back to the drawing board again,
and then it would be very unlikely
that this council, as it exists,
would be the one to get this housing done.
Thank you.
Thank you, Councillor Conlon.
Do I have a seconder, please?
Councillor Hollingsworth.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:45:18
Would you like to speak?
A bit early, actually. I was waiting to hear what other people say.
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 1:45:28
But it's a scheme that my administration has been working on for quite a few years and has brought forward.
And I would love to see it actually developed.
I think it's important to note that it is a very difficult site.
I was going to ask about contamination.
I was actually talking to somebody today and they were saying,
what have you got on the agenda tonight?
What are you talking about tonight?
So I read the agenda out to them and said, Ship Street.
And they said, about time, that it's such a difficult site.
And they were talking about them working on it many years ago,
how deep the gas tanks were and what the soil was like
underneath, very, very dark, he was telling me.
And he said, I used to work on it.
So I thought, and it's not for that reason,
but I think it will create some affordable housing.
It will bring a site that is very difficult,
very untidy and quite a disgrace really,
back into some kind of lovely planning order.
I remember the first plan.
I hope this plan is something like it.
It was actually joining up one side of the site really
to the other side of the site,
allowing walkthrough and pedestrian access.
I haven't seen the last set of plans,
but I would hope it would be something like that,
which would have been a delight, or hopefully will be a delight, for those residents who are living in that area.
So I'm very much in favour of this. I think it's important that we do support it, and it certainly has my support.
Thank you. Councillor Godfrey.
Yes, thank you.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr David Godfrey - 1:47:32
Actually, I'm appreciating what James just said, but picking up on what my friend over
there said, seven years ago, it was a long, hard decision to actually go for this project.
We knew it was high risk.
We knew it would cost money.
We knew it was going to take time to get through.
We're absolutely aware of that, but we did it.
It was a brave decision because that site's been sitting there empty for 50 years, a complete eyesore, which could be used for this housing.
Now, OK, they're saying they're going to reduce the number.
I can understand where these people are coming from.
To get people interested was very hard because of the risk on the site.
Having got a developer that is interested, we really need to help him get that to fruition
and get this job done and get that part of Fosden improved as quickly as possible.
So I very much support it.
Thank you.
Councillor Lockwood.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:48:25
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 1:48:29
We're banned from holding things up in this meeting due to the Constitution,
which I think we just agreed amendments to, and Councillor conduct.
So if you imagine me holding this up, it's the Labour District Council Manifesto from 2023.
and on page one there is a picture of Councillor McConville in her former life
and on page two there are some pledges. Number one pledge is build more council
housing and cut the waiting list and as a group we agreed that in 2023 and we
we feel that council house building
is the answer to a lot of the problems
that we've alluded to in other discussions.
So I think from the point of view of this group,
this is gonna be difficult because in fact,
Since 2023, this council has not built any council houses.
Now, before I get mobbed by at least six people
from that side of the room, if I may,
I'd just like to explain and make three points
that should clarify exactly where I'm coming from
when I say this.
So point number one, this council has invested
a lot of money in the existing stock,
the existing housing stock.
And this is money that's spent on things like reducing, you know, increasing energy efficiency,
reducing bills for our tenants, moving towards the decent home scheme and government compliance
for EPC ratings above C +, which I think we need to hit by 2028.
And we recognise that and we commend that and the cabinet member for housing should
be get credit for that work that's done.
And we talked, the leader talked earlier about the housing inspector that's recently visited.
And we don't know what score we've been given yet, but we know that our neighbours, Doval,
recently visited and got the C2. The scores go from C2 to C4. C4 is everybody go home.
C3 needs improvement. C1 is exceptional and only a dozen, half a dozen or a dozen
councils in the country have got a C1. But let's see what we've scored when that
result is published. But if that is a good score then it's testament to that
investment and we do agree that that is money well spent on getting tenants bills down.
Point number two is that it is a difficult site and Councillors here have alluded to
that already and the offices involved and I'm going to name Andy Blaslovich
because just the mention of Ship Street when you speak to him he seems to age in
front of you as you say it has put a tremendous amount of effort into this
the whole housing team that development team have and and it's a minor miracle
that we've got this piece of land in a position where anybody's interested you
in building on it.
So, huge credit there.
And also, it's slightly unfair of me to say
we haven't built any council houses in this council,
but we have bought some.
And credit here to the leader.
He said on many occasions in this chamber
that the housing market in East Kent
is slightly strange at the moment.
And this is around what people have to pay to buy land.
The cost of building houses, the materials and the labour,
and then what you can actually sell them for in this area,
creates a housing market which for us as a council
is quite favourable because we have developers
who have certain properties they build
and it's advantageous for them if we buy those units
and add them to our HRA stock.
And credit to this council and our leader
for grasping that, it's slightly opportunistic,
but we grasped that opportunistic and we bought those units.
And we welcome that as a group.
And that has added to the stock.
So all of that said, credit to housing,
cabinet member of housing and a housing team,
credit to the leader for the units that we bought
and work with developers and land.
We've sold credit to the team for getting this land ready.
Can I ask you two to finish up now, please, Councillor?
I'm going to finish up now.
So going back to the beginning, I hope members will see
that this is a difficult journey to go from,
holds up imaginary manifesto,
to the cabinet member asking us to agree,
extra funding so that it can be invested in this piece of land
to be sold to a developer who is not going to build any council houses.
We desperately need council houses in East Folkestone and the Harbour Ward and for that
reason we're going to struggle to support this.
Anybody else like to speak?
Councillor Neid.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:54:31
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:54:36
I live literally probably 100 yards from Ship Street and ever since I moved down here I
Perfect place for council housing.
Perfect place.
In, you know, just on the edge of Harbour Ward,
one of the most deprived areas,
just in the heart of East Folkestone.
We've got so many young families
that are having to move away
because they can't afford properties here anymore.
I thought, yes, yes, yes, council housing.
That's what we need.
And then my heart sank
because I started hearing, oh, it's contaminated land.
but then I heard, oh, actually, it was decontaminated.
So I'm thinking, okay, which is true, and where's the risk?
If you look long term at actually building proper
council houses that are built by the council
and kept in eternity, giving people safe houses,
the comeback that you get, yes, it takes, I believe,
They have about 30 years of rent to actually pay for them.
But the other benefits that you get
from having council houses is the stability of families,
the stability of education.
And we need that so much.
And I am so, so disappointed that Ship Street
is going to a private developer.
Because I tell you what's gonna happen,
yeah, they're gonna buy it and then go,
We cannot afford to put sustainable housing on here
because we're going to have to decontaminate it.
And it's the same thing that would have happened
at Prince's Parade.
I'm sorry, it's exactly the same thing
only on a smaller scale.
So I'm sorry, I will not be supporting this one.
Thank you, Councillor Shoup.
Thank you.
Yeah, could be here all night talking about
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 1:56:28
the housing crisis, the roots of it, the solutions.
But I think the headline here is that this proposal
is for affordable housing, 100 % affordable housing.
That's in the report, that's what it is.
I think, yeah, I'm not going to go into the details
I'm going to address all the points because I know we will,
as I said, could be here all night.
But I think this is a request for some additional money
and it is an investment that will enable affordable housing.
It will regenerate that area.
There are huge benefits to the Ship Street plan.
I think speed of delivery,
I would love, I'm sure we would all love council homes
that we're really building ourselves
and we know all the details of it.
That, yeah, in an ideal world.
And let's hope that the new Prime Minister
has spoken about enabling councils
to build more council houses.
We have been hearing that for a long time though,
even under the previous Prime Minister.
Speed of delivery is absolutely essential
when it comes to affordable homes.
Because we have 1 ,200 plus households on our waiting lists.
Every day that we delay opportunities like this,
it affects families in our district.
So yeah, I don't think we can wait for these, you know,
as I said, I hope it comes to fruition
that the councils are enabled to build their own stock.
But yeah, I really think we need to get on with this.
This is a really good opportunity
to deliver 100 % affordable housing on this site.
I am wholeheartedly supporting this.
Thank you.
Thank you, Councillor Cooper.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:59:02
First of all, can I just say this, members?
Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:59:06
Council taxpayers' money should be going into providing services, not -profits for private developers.
Now, as a member of the planning committee, I, on a number of occasions, have been very disappointed,
I'm very disappointed to discover that properties
or applications that we previously approved
have all of a sudden not been able to be done.
Now I don't see, with all due respect,
any assurance here that if the council give this money
that these houses would be delivered.
What my concern is basically this.
If we agree to give this developer,
or we give this money over,
the developer may well turn round.
I'm not saying that they will, but at the end of the day, we're guardians of the public
purpose and we've got no guarantee that these houses will actually be delivered.
At the end of the day, if the council delivers housing, it should deliver its own housing
on a council basis because basically that would be how you would reduce a lot of the
inequality and cost of living prices in this country at this moment in time.
Because if you've got families living in council properties
who are paying them affordable rent, according to them,
that means that the benefit bill would be lower.
And amongst other things, that would also include money going back into and invested in the properties.
I am personally, as a member of the council, disappointed that we've had a golden opportunity
to build council houses and certainly for whatever reason,
we haven't, thank you.
Thank you, Councillor Keane.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:00:46
I mean I'm rather amazed that our waiting list
Cllr Nicola Keen - 2:00:51
is only 1 ,200 people because the reason
we've got all those people on our waiting list
is they can't afford the affordable housing.
They can't afford it, they just can't.
So some of them are living in substandard housing.
We visited a family that can't afford to move from where they're living
because they can't afford affordable rents.
What we need in this district is we need social housing and social rents.
And we've got a healthy budget because Councillor Prater told us we're healthy.
So why are we not investing public money into social housing?
Why do we keep putting it into affordable housing that anyone can rent?
Affordable housing isn't held for folks and people, the people sitting on our waiting lists.
Why are our waiting lists not reducing if these affordable houses are bringing the waiting list down?
Because they're not.
We need social housing and we need it as soon as.
We need it quicker than you can build those houses on Ship Street.
And nobody in their right mind is ever going to tell me, or tell anybody,
that affordable rents are for people on low wages, because they're not.
Because if they were, our list would be dropping.
Because it's every week you see in the paper, we've got affordable housing.
Affordable to who?
because they're not affordable to people
earning local wages.
Thank you, Councillor King.
Councillor Giamatti.
Thank you very much, Chair.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:02:33
Yeah, my familiarity with Ship Street
Cllr Jim Martin - 2:02:39
is generally one of problems.
There aren't many sites that have got so many
technical difficulties in developing.
Councillor Godfrey related how long it's been empty.
Andy Blazkowicz told me today that there's a press clipping
of the local reporter imploring the council
to do something and develop Ship Street.
And that article is dated 1956.
1956, so that's 70 years old.
And my guess is that every single council
has had a look at Ship Street.
So that would just give you an idea of the scale
of the problems associated with that site.
Councillor Godfrey said it was a brave decision.
It was a brave decision, you know, a heroic decision.
But we have to ask ourselves, what do we want?
It's a decision that I would take today.
So I'm not criticising the decision,
I'm just re -emphasising how brave it is,
because that is a part of Fochthon
that needs to be regenerated.
As Councillor Meade said when she moved close to Ship Street,
it should be developed.
The town deserves it to be developed,
and that is what this council is trying to do,
and that is what this money is for.
But just to give members some detail,
the developer isn't a private developer,
it's a registered charity.
Councillor Fuller.
Well, okay, thank you, Chair.
I think there's a few things to deal with here.
One, I'm sorry, but suggesting that
because Andy B isn't on site in a hard hat,
that we're not delivering council houses is pure sophistry. I'm sorry. The fact of the
matter is, is that there is no officer in this council that I'm aware of, and I'm happy
Cllr Gary Fuller - 2:05:02
to be corrected, that could build a house from scratch themselves. Now, in theory, we
could suddenly become a developer and employ all those people, and that would take time.
Or we can do what we have been doing, which is going out to the market and purchasing
properties as council houses not as affordable houses as council houses yes
we have put money into affordable projects and I totally take Councillor
King's point that affordable is is also sophistry but it's it's it's
unfortunately a sophistry foisted on the rest of us by government and a
completely runaway housing market and to be fair not by the Labour government
it existed way before that, but this whole housing market has existed as a result of
decisions taken as early as 1979, 1980. And as great as this council may be, we ain't
going to solve that. And places like Ship Street, we don't have the ability, we don't
going to be able to do that. And yeah, great. If Andy Burnham or someone turned around and
said, here's 200 million quid or whatever it would take to build 1 ,000 social houses
tomorrow, great. We would love to do that, but we would still have to get a private developer
to do the actual building work because we don't have the expertise. So what this motion
is doing is accepting that A, we don't have the expertise
to deliver Ship Street.
B, we don't have the money to do everything
that's been needed to make sure that a non -council developer
who shall remain nameless can deliver Ship Street.
But we do have a grant which we need to safeguard
so that we can clean it up and get it ready
for someone to deliver it.
And if we do that, the one thing the report says
is that we will get affordable housing.
Not perfect, but better than what we usually get,
which is fully commercial housing,
and better than us being left with a carbuncle
in the middle of Folkestone,
which certainly won't be regarded as value for money
if we're just sitting on an eyesore.
That's not delivering public good.
That's not spending public money sensibly.
So what we have to do, get Ship Street dealt with,
And then the funds that we would have ideally spent on Ship Street can go on other things,
like purchasing social homes, purchasing homes from the market that become council houses.
And yes, in an ideal world, long term, we'll get loads of money given to us or whoever
to build loads of social housing, council housing. Andy Bennon has certainly shown that
he's keen on the idea. And if that happens, I'm sure we've got plenty of ideas of how
spending. But that, in essence, is not relevant to this particular circumstance.
Thank you, Councillor Cooper.
Well, I was just going to repeat what Councillor Keane said, though I was just about to say
it, but she said it for me, because there's a vast distinction between affordable and
council housing. That's why they are two different terms. Affordable for whom? Because if it
We have built lots of affordable housing
but we still have waiting lists because they are not affordable.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:08:33
And council housing is completely distinct from affordable housing.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 2:08:38
It sounds wonderful to say 100 % affordable housing
but it is a bit disingenuous to use that term
because it is not affordable for the people of Folkestone.
Thank you very much.
Councillor Davidson.
Thank you.
Clearly, the housing is not affordable.
I think with the votes in the room
and what people have said,
this proposal is going to go through,
but I think it is important that we take the time
to think about it seriously,
and it's important to make the points that people have made.
And I think actually everybody agrees
on the importance of council housing
and increasing our stock of council housing.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:09:19
And I think if you're disposing of an asset,
it's right that you take that seriously
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:09:24
because that is in public ownership.
And think about the implications of changes to a scheme
in a circumstance where you are having to make adjustments
in order for a scheme to go ahead
and weigh up those different benefits, the time involved.
And also think about the time that we are making
these decisions in because as lots of people
have referenced, there has been a shift
in terms of central government position.
and I think we all hope that that will see
an increased emphasis and speed in building council houses.
So I think those are some of the things
that we need to take into consideration
in making decisions like this.
Thank you, Councillor.
Councillor Chapman.
When we say that part of Folkstone needs to be regenerated,
we've seen a lot of regeneration in Folkstone
and it hasn't benefited particularly the people
in the wards that I represent.
What it's done is it's pushed rents up for them,
it's made, it's ended up with landlords,
greedy landlords issuing section 21 notices
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:10:33
so that families can be pushed out
because they think they can make more money
from people moving into the area.
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 2:10:38
And putting houses that people in the ward,
I represent Carna Ford onto that site.
That regeneration doesn't benefit them.
It doesn't.
It makes it look smarter so that those greedy landlords
can possibly get more money in those buildings around it.
But it doesn't actually help them.
And what I would like to see is something that
helps the families and the single people
that are struggling and that can't afford to live here anymore.
This regeneration, Jim, this doesn't do it.
Okay, thank you, Councillor.
Councillor Scotland.
I don't disagree with the objections and the worries which have been raised.
In fact, I salute them.
I think the concerns and desire to build more council houses is one that I would very strongly support.
I think that is absolutely essential
and something that we need to keep
right at the front of our minds.
I take the point about the affordable rents
not being affordable.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:11:48
It is a misleading term
and I think it is deliberately misleading.
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 2:11:53
They are not affordable.
I take the point that the regeneration
isn't going to benefit
the people in the ward
who are in need of help
and in need of the support
that we can offer.
Having said that, it's quite clear this site
has been empty for a very, very long time.
And it's an extremely difficult site.
And had it been possible to develop it earlier,
it would have been.
So I'm going to support the notion
of one of the purely pragmatic grounds
that it actually deals with a site
that needs to be dealt with.
It's an eyesore, it's an empty site
in the middle of the town.
It will increase the footfall and so on
in the town's centre.
It will bring whatever life you might say
It's the wrong sort of life, but it will bring more people into the town centre.
I support that idea and at the same time acknowledge fully the importance of social housing and council housing.
Thank you. Is there any other council would like to speak on this?
Council McConville, if I could sum up, thank you.
Yes, thank you, Chair.
Lots to discuss. I've captured most of it, I think.
We'll start with your point, Jenny, about the site and the trickiness of the site.
I mean, thanks to the excellent work of officers, we were able to secure a two and a half million
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:13:18
pound Brownford Land Release Fund grant, which we are still confident we will be able to
hold onto to pass that on to remediate the site.
It's not like the site's just sat derelict
Cllr Connor McConville - 2:13:29
for 50, 60, 70 years.
Work has continuously gone on in that site
in terms of remediation.
So it's not like we're starting at point zero.
And that grant will go a hell of a lot of way
to do what's needed on the site.
Affordable housing, right.
So the cat's sort of already been laid out the bag.
But, so if this council builds a house,
and takes however many people off the waiting list,
or it buys a house and takes so many people
off the waiting list for me, that's the same.
If it's cheaper to buy houses than build them,
and get more people off the waiting list cheaper,
then I'm all for that.
So, if we approve the extra funding here tonight,
we're gonna push this budget up to,
So just about a million pounds.
Based on our business plan, our HRA business plan,
one million pounds will deliver us about four units.
So we're taking, I don't know, what,
at best 15, 16 people off our waiting list.
Okay, one million pounds will unlock this site
and deliver 85 homes.
Okay, 85 homes that people can only rent
by applying to a council and from a housing waiting list.
OK, so that is nearly 400 people off our waiting list,
potentially, on this site.
It's a no -brainer.
So, let's vote for it, let's get it done.
OK, thank you for your input into this as well.
So, we have a proposer, Councillor McConnell,
a seconder, Councillor Hollingsby.
All those in favour, please.
And those against.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:15:38
And, sorry.
Abstentions?
So we have 17 for 6 against and 3 abstentions.
That's carried. Thank you very much.
Item 15, Sports Leisure and Community Land at Martello Lakes.
Councillor McConville, over to you.
Hopefully not so controversial, this one.
So, yes, so Martello Lakes, you've probably heard the phrase,
it's been banded about for some years,
probably as long as Ship Street.
So, as part of the development there on Nichols Quarry,
part of the section 106 agreement
allows the council to purchase a small piece of land

15 Sports, Leisure and Community Land at the Martello Lakes Development

for one pound for the provision of sport and leisure.
Cllr Connor McConville - 2:16:44
So Cabinet has earlier taken the decision to proceed with that.
So we will look to put together a planning submission
which will secure the site in about, what, 15 months hopefully,
all going well.
But obviously nothing happens without some cost
and this isn't currently in the current budget.
So we are asking Council to add to the medium -term capital programme
the £250 ,000 that is required to do this.
And this decision isn't just, you know, now...
There'll be a lot of consultation, engagement with this process,
what it will look like, everything else,
as it comes down the line.
This is just to get the ball rolling, as it were.
So I hope Council would support the decision
to help start the ball rolling,
bringing forward a much needed facility
in that part of the district.
Councillor Mike Blackmore.
I'm happy to, Second Chair.
Very supportive of this.
Along with the improvements to Hive Pool,
which we talked about here previously,
along with the 2 .4 million grant to reopen Folkestone Pool,
along with the 50 ,000 we've allocated to sport
and physical activity on the marsh,
and 25 ,000 to physical activity elsewhere in the district.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:18:17
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 2:18:20
It shows this council's commitment to helping people's
mental and physical health and social cohesion
for using sport and physical activity.
and this investment in this site will enable us
to make full use of it to ensure that we're developing
the right facilities there,
the facilities that the community want,
and I hope very much that members will support it.
Thank you.
Okay, thank you.
We've got a proposal from,
proposed by Councillor McConville,
seconded by Councillor Mike Blakemore.
And then we'd like to speak, so Councillor Wing,
Councillor Keene, Councillor Wing first.
Thank you.
Thank you, Chair.
Sorry about this, Connor.
This is actually, my toilet legs is on my ward, and I'm slightly frustrated because
all these things come out of the 5 .6 million pounds which the developers gave to, primarily
in high for spooks and leisure.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:19:10
Unfortunately, none of that's now left.
So we left with this sort of half a, I mean, the original plans for this had put tappings
I understand now we're looking at not having porta -papneys
Cllr John Wing - 2:19:22
in as the changing facilities.
Just concerns me.
I quite often walk through my total lakes
and it's a nice sight.
The houses are lovely, but there's no meaning to it.
So there's no beach here unless you want to get shot.
The lake you can't get to because there's a big fence
around it and I did notice on appendix A,
the red line seems to go to north of the lake.
As far as I know, it doesn't, it stays south of the lake,
but that's a small point because there's other facilities
over to the north.
I'm just, I will support this.
I'm just frustrated that there's not more going
into Martello Lake, especially because the developer
gave us 5 .6 million pounds for sports and leisure,
primarily in the HIVE area.
Thank you.
Councillor Keene.
I've got an idea really.
Why don't we give the 6 .4 million pounds to Martello Lakes
and get a really good pool and close HIVE.
Because we're spending 6 .4 million on a pool
that's had its, it's passed its sell -by date,
when we can have a lovely pool and facilities
at Martello Lakes, that makes sense to me.
Because HIVE has had its day.
Seems a lot of money to spend on an old pool
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:20:38
when they need something in that part of HIVE,
which will also be near the marsh.
Cllr Nicola Keen - 2:20:42
Thor.
Councillor Godfrey.
Thank you.
I did smile partly when I had this put in front of me, because remembering the battle
of Prince's Parade and I referred to it, we were promised faithfully that there would
be a sub -important Martyr of the Lakes.
There was no problem at all.
Unfortunately, that seems to be the false promise, because no real investigation was
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:21:15
done and was known at the time by the people who weren't experts that it's not going to
be possible to build a clinical there for technical reasons.
So it just made me smile.
Cllr David Godfrey - 2:21:25
I agree we need some sports facility in the Motero Lakes and I'm not going to oppose this.
I agree with Councillor Wing that better use could have been made of money from the developer
to get more money towards this, but it hasn't happened and we are where we are.
I won't speak about the highest of import, I agree with Councillor Keane, I think that
is a total waste of money and we will talk about that at another time I am sure.
So I will support this but I just wanted to remind people of the promise of a call that
never happened.
Thank you.
Councillor Hollingsworth.
Well Councillor Godfrey has probably said what I was going to say.
I was going to say if Councillor Wimble was here,
he'd say, and I don't know why I'm talking
for Councillor Wimble, he would say,
Councillor Prater promised us a swimming pool
for one pound at Hive at Martello Lakes.
And of course, as Councillor Gough said,
that hasn't happened.
And I totally agree actually with Councillor Keene
spending that amount of money on folks on Hive pool
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:22:30
is to my mind, complete waste.
And actually, if you talk to a lot of residents,
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 2:22:34
They will say exactly the same.
So I do think it is not the right place for us to go.
I will be supporting this because I do think
facilities are needed at Martella Lakes,
but I do think we need to have another think
about Hivepool.
A lot of people are actually saying that as well.
Thank you.
Thank you. Council Proctor. Oh goody. £6 .3 million doesn't buy you a paddling pool at
Martello Lakes is the actual answer to the problem. It doesn't buy you a new swimming
pool there. And in 2019 we absolutely discussed Martello Lakes as a site that we would buy
for £1 and on which a swimming pool to serve Hyde and Romley Marsh could be brought forward.
And in 2026, looking forward to 2028,
we will again buy that site for one pound
and inflation has reduced the cost of that.
Cllr Tim Prater - 2:23:37
So we're getting an even better value
than we would have done six years ago.
However, we are bringing forward a leisure facility
at Martello Lakes to serve Romney Marsh and Hife.
And the reason it's not a swimming pool
is because the facts have changed.
And when the facts have changed,
it's worth changing your mind.
The reason we're not bringing forward a swimming pool there
is because we can keep Hive Pool open
and for less money refurbish that
and provide the swimming facilities
which this district needs.
And the leisure strategy,
which has been through,
leisure strategy that the council has been through,
has looked at the assessments there
and with Folkestone Sports Centre
and with Hive Pool,
there is insufficient demand
to support another swimming pool at Martello Lakes.
you would be building a white elephant
and even on a site that costs a pound,
that is wasted money.
And the section 106 money,
which has come from the Nicholas Quarry development,
I'll go for that,
about half of that's going to end up
pretty much going into that Martella Lakes development.
It's not that 250 ,000 pounds does this job,
it is a multi -million pound scheme in total
in order to bring this scheme forward.
The remainder of that money,
when it's been talked about the refurbishment
of Hyde Pool in order to give that a hive,
a swimming facility that will last the next 20 years,
that money is going into that.
It will still support swimming for people in Hyde,
and that includes people who live in Nichols Quarry.
So you get the right facility in Hyde,
you continue to have swimming in Hyde,
in a location where people understand and like swimming,
and a pool which is supported by Hyde Aqua,
and people who use, other clubs that use the pool.
You also get a facility at Martello Lakes
on the site that we should have bought eight years ago
for one pound and we are actually now doing and delivering.
And it was always said if we needed to bring,
the swimming was if we needed to,
that was talking about replacing the facility
which was already there.
Actually we can get to keep it where it was.
And we're going to do so as well.
So this gives us additional sports facilities
for our district.
This allows us to bring forward,
go to consultation and bring forward plans
for new facilities for new leisure at Martello Lakes.
I didn't go red, Adrian, you had.
So it's new additional facilities, I fully support it,
I hope other councillors will do so as well.
Thank you, Councillor Cooper.
Thank you, Chair.
Can I just say, as a cultural community,
it should not be looking after everybody within the community.
I mean, for example, we've got folks in the community,
community with a pool about to be reopened. We've got one in Hyde which is in need of
refurbishment and then Romney Marsh as usual.
Whilst this might well be welcome down at Nipples Quarry, and it is, the point being
Cllr Tony Cooper - 2:26:40
is there needs to be facilities there which are accessible for everybody and that includes
making sure that future generations of children are able to deal with water.
We have got a coaching community, we have got children on beaches and if they get swept
away they need to know and learn how to swim.
They cannot get to Fulton and they cannot get to Hyde so my suggestion is this, I support
this motion by all means, providing extra money is invested in the marsh in respect
of the facilities there for the families and children and also my suggestion is this, why
Why don't we close Ithpew, move it to Martyrra Lakes and, let me finish, let me finish.
Why don't we close Ithpew, move it to Martyrra Lakes and in place,
build some counterhouses and double the money. Thank you.
Thank you. Councillor Hills.
Thank you for that Chairman.
Everybody keeps...
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:28:04
Councillor Tony Hills - 2:28:09
.
.
Okay, thank you.
And any other member like to speak?
Councillor Davidson.
Yeah, maybe just to say that this came to overview and scrutiny and there's other members
the committee who I see here this evening.
And we did have quite a detailed discussion on it,
and that discussion did talk about
looking at different areas of our district
and making sure that we were thinking holistically
about all of that.
So maybe when things come forward,
it's worth reflecting that in the reports as well
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:29:34
so that there is, so all members feel that these things
are being thought about across the piece.
Councillor Tony Hills - 2:29:39
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:29:41
And maybe just to flag, I think,
I think one of the other things that we talked about
was what's now called a small community studio
with changing facilities, which I think you were
flagging up, John, which previously was going to be
a shipping container, I think.
So I appreciate this is at a very early stage,
but it would be good to have reassurance
that's not a shipping container anymore,
and it's something else.
And the point that the committee was making, really,
was the importance of having a community facility
on the site that people could use as well.
Thanks.
Thank you.
I'm not seeing any more hands up.
Councillor McConville, would you like to sum up?
Thank you.
Yeah, I mean, this report is specifically for, you know,
the areas at Martella Lakes.
I mean, if we...
The studies that were undertaken early in terms of the, you know,
our overall leisure strategy, which were discussed at the OSC meeting,
unfortunately did not support a pool on Romney Marsh.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:30:46
I mean, if there is, as you say,
I don't think we would have any chance
of getting any outside funding
Cllr Connor McConville - 2:30:52
if we didn't have evidence to show
that it was backed up.
If that picture changes,
if we undertake studies that show
that there is clear demand for additional swimming
on Romney Marsh, then I'm very happy to look at it.
But we can only go on the evidence
that we are given by officers
and the people that they use
to provide us with the information.
So I do hope people will support this.
You know, it would be a shame
not to move ahead with this project.
So please support the recommendations.
Okay, thank you very much. We have a proposal in a second, so we'll now go to the vote.
So all those in favour of the proposal, thank you.
That's unanimous, thank you very much.
Fong, last one on the agenda, Mermaid Beach breakwater repairs, inclusion in the 2026 -27
plan.
Councillor McConville.
Okay, last one.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:32:09
Asking for a lot of money tonight, so I do appreciate that and I thank members for their
consideration in that.
This one, unfortunately totally out of our control.
Everyone probably would have remembered the images that we saw.

16 Mermaid Beach Breakwater Repairs - Inclusion in the 2026/27 Medium-Term Capital Programme

Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:32:21
When I first saw it, I couldn't believe it.
I couldn't believe it was done by one single storm.
But it's happened.
Unfortunately, as the report says,
Cllr Connor McConville - 2:32:35
it's not covered by our insurance.
The Environment Agency don't want to know.
So it is down to us.
I think it's the right thing that we address it
and we solve the problem as a duty of care
to residents and people that use the area.
The good news, I suppose, is that we can fund this work
through underspends in last year's budget.
So it's not an additional pressure.
But I think it needs to be done
not only for a health and safety thing,
but also if another storm were to occur in the winter,
then it could make the problem two, three times worse.
So I think we need to do it
and get it done as quickly as we can.
Thanks.
And a seconder.
Councillor Hills.
I would like to speak.
I'm not sure this is working, Chairman, but thank you. It is later than we intended, possibly.
But I support this. This is so important. As Council said tonight, we are just entering a scheme of really severe weather.
It's good. I can't scare people but the sea temperature rising as it is it's gonna cause more evaporation
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:33:54
It's a basic job
Councillor Tony Hills - 2:34:01
And we'll go into the sky and it would come down in more rain and these storms will increase over the next ten or more
years
And by 2040 will be also put in small severe drought problems
So this will repair work itself help we have to do this
If we neglect this, and I remember Storm Goretty, who caused this problem, had the worst flooding
at my part, Denj March, in 50 years.
And it wasn't even warning from the EA, because they said, oh, it didn't meet their criteria.
I don't want to worry you, but that is what happens in the real world.
So I support Council for covering all this, and I'd like to see us as a council take a
step further and do an assessment of all our frontages on our district and find out any
risk points and then put pressure on the Environment Agency and the Southern Coastal Council drug
group to look at the shoreline management plan.
So it's something we needed to defend our district because we are a coastal district.
Thank you.
Thank you, Councillor Hills.
Councillor Lockwood, would you like to speak?
Yes, thanks, Chair.
I'm also happy to support this.
This is a freak event and this is what reserves are for.
You have money in the bank for literally a rainy day.
And that's good that we've, you know, we've got good finances
and we've got the money available.
I just had a very quick question just to seek a little bit
of assurance on behalf of council taxpayers that we're obviously,
if this goes through, and I'm sure it will,
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 2:35:35
We'll have approved somewhere just under a million pounds worth of expenditure this evening,
not budgeted for.
And I'm sure it's all fine, but we've just heard that Martello Lakes, the contractor,
offered us that site for a pound in 2019.
BT told us they were turning the analogue lines off in 2017 and this council's predecessor
was criticised for not developing Ship Street in 1956.
So surely just a bit of reassurance for our council taxpayers that this couldn't be foreseen,
couldn't be budgeted for.
I'm sure it's all, there are perfectly good explanations for all this, but just a little
bit of reassurance that this million pounds is, or just under a million pounds, is normal.
Thank you.
Councillor Polly Blaigmoor.
Yeah, just to say it's really good to see this coming forward and that it's going to
happen before the next storm season comes in, because I know there's a local group in
particular looking to get designated bathing status for Mermaid Beach.
So they'll be really glad to see that this is now, that the timing of this is really
good.
I just had one quick question about the fact that you said it's not covered by the Council's
insurance policy.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:36:59
I'd be interested to know, is that because it's uninsurable?
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 2:37:03
Thank you.
Councillor Meade, thank you.
Just to possibly go in on that, I think it's something called force majeure under the insurance,
which means act of God.
Storm Goretti was a really, really strange storm.
It picked on certain little points and left the rest alone.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:37:34
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 2:37:34
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:37:35
So I absolutely agree that we need to get this rebuilt
and make sure that our residents can swim safely.
But I'd also like to add with that,
Cllr Jackie Meade - 2:37:42
Councillor Martin, please keep on at the Water Board
because they are still putting the sewage in the water.
It's all very well us rebuilding,
but if it's not safe for our residents to go and swim,
it would be a real concern. Thank you.
Okay, thank you very much. Councillor Fuller.
Thank you, Chair. Absolutely support this scheme.
Just wanted to, A, agree with Councillor Hills
that we do need to consider that this is going to happen more often.
Climate change is going to hit us hard.
We are going to get more freak storms, more coastal damage, we are going to have to spend
infinitely more money almost to protect our district.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:38:28
And to slightly disagree with Councillor Hills, we should be terrified, we should be scared
Cllr Gary Fuller - 2:38:34
and we need to make everyone scared because we haven't acted in the 30, 40 years we have
been warned about climate change sufficiently to prevent it.
Now we are going to have to adapt and that is going to cost a hell of a lot of money
as well.
Thank you.
Councillor Davidson.
Just a question, really, about if there's a lifespan of the works, if we've been given
any information on that.
Any other members like to speak?
If not, I'll ask Councillor McConnell to sum up.
I'll ask the relevant questions to the officers and I'll get back to you.
Thanks.
Okay, thank you.
We've got a proposal and a second.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:39:13
Are we all in favour of this to move forward tonight?
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:39:16
Unanimous.
Thank you very much, councillors.
Thank you very much for the officers.
Thank you very much, councillors.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 2:39:25
It's been meaty, I think, and thank you very much for your input.
It's much appreciated.