Overview and Scrutiny Committee - Tuesday 22 September 2026, 6:00pm

Overview and Scrutiny Committee
Tuesday, 22nd September 2026 at 6:00pm

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Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Jim Martin
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Paul Thomas
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Paul Thomas
Cllr Bridget Chapman
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Bridget Chapman
Cllr Jim Martin
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Paul Thomas
Cllr Jim Martin
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Paul Thomas
Cllr Jim Martin
Councillor Tony Hills
Mr Jake Hamilton
Councillor Tony Hills

2 Declarations of Interest

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Declarations of Interest

3 Minutes

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Minutes Public Pack, 28/07/2026 Overview and Scrutiny Committee

Councillor Tony Hills

4 Private Sector Enforcement Policy

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Overview and Scrutiny PSH enforcement policy update Sept 2026

Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Alan Martin
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Paul Thomas
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Paul Thomas
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Bridget Chapman
Councillor Tony Hills
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Bridget Chapman
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Laura Davison
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr John Wing
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr John Wing
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Laura Davison
Councillor Tony Hills
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Laura Davison
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Councillor Tony Hills

5 Housing Allocations Policy

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Mr Adrian Hammond
Cllr Bridget Chapman
Mr Adrian Hammond
Cllr Bridget Chapman
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Bridget Chapman
Mr Adrian Hammond
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Paul Thomas
Councillor Tony Hills
Mr Adrian Hammond
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Paul Thomas
Councillor Tony Hills
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Alan Martin
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Alan Martin
Councillor Tony Hills
Mr Adrian Hammond
Cllr John Wing
Mr Adrian Hammond
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Laura Davison
Mr Adrian Hammond
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Laura Davison
Mr Adrian Hammond
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Bridget Chapman
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Bridget Chapman
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Bridget Chapman
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Laura Davison
Mr Adrian Hammond
Councillor Tony Hills
Councillor Tony Hills

6 Cabinet Member update

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Housing report for OSC Sept 2026 FINAL

Cllr Rebecca Shoob
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Rebecca Shoob
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Rebecca Shoob
Microphone thirty-seven
Cllr Anita Jones
Microphone thirty-seven
Cllr Rebecca Shoob
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr John Wing
Cllr Rebecca Shoob
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Paul Thomas
Cllr Rebecca Shoob
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Rebecca Shoob
Mr Adrian Hammond
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Rebecca Shoob
Microphone thirty-seven
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Paul Thomas
Mr Adrian Hammond
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr John Wing
Cllr Rebecca Shoob
Councillor Tony Hills

7 Overview & Scrutiny Work Programme Tracker

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Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Paul Thomas
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr John Wing
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Laura Davison
Councillor Tony Hills
Microphone thirty-seven
Councillor Tony Hills
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Alan Martin
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Alan Martin
Cllr Laura Davison
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Alan Martin
Councillor Tony Hills
Microphone thirty-seven
Councillor Tony Hills
Mr Jake Hamilton
Cllr Alan Martin
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Laura Davison
Councillor Tony Hills
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Laura Davison
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Anita Jones
Councillor Tony Hills
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Disclaimer: This transcript was automatically generated, so it may contain errors. Please view the webcast to confirm whether the content is accurate.

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:00:03

Good evening and welcome to the meeting of the Overview and Scrutiny Committee.

This meeting will be webcast live to the internet.

For those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed, you will need to leave the chamber.

For members, officers and others speaking at the meeting, it is important that the microphones

are used so viewers on the webcast and others in the room may hear you.

Would anybody with a mobile phone please switch it to silent mode as they can be distracting.

I would like to remind members that though we have strong opinions on matters under consideration,

it is important to treat members, officers and public speakers with respect.

So that's the every statement.

But I believe that our leader, Councillor Jim Martin, would like to make his few words

about the recent disaster.

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:01:01

Thank you very much, Chair, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to make this

statement regarding the fire at the Burstein Hotel.

The last 96 hours have been a real test for the district, and I'm very proud that we,

as a community have stood up to the test.

There's been a lot of work done following the fire

which occurred in the early hours of Saturday.

Structural specialists are continuing to carry out

their investigations into the building structure

and they are updating us on a regular basis.

As a result, all 90 flats in the neighbouring Pavilion Court

have been temporarily relocated to ensure their safety.

At the moment, the structural engineers are saying

that there is a risk of part of the building collapsing.

So we have, that's why we've moved everybody out.

These aren't our tenants.

The block, they're in private occupation,

but public safety is our primary concern.

Our excellent housing team have provided welfare support in what is a very difficult situation

for those affected residents.

An emergency prohibition notice has been issued instructing people not to enter Pavilion Court.

It is too early to say when this can be lifted but in my experience you can't rush things

when it comes to this kind of structural impairment of the building.

About 280 people were evacuated from the Grand Burstein

and thankfully there were no fire -related injuries.

There were a few people that were taken to the William Harvey

but most of those three injuries, as I understand it,

were sort of bumps and scrapes that people experienced in the actual evacuation.

The fire was in the basement car park.

It's likely to have involved some vehicles. When a vehicle catches fire in a basement car park,

The heat is very, very, very intense.

And it's that intense heat that's caused the damage.

The things that I immediately sort of picked up on

as a child building survivor is that the fire resistant

material was fire resistant.

And that the compartmentation that's required

by building regulations held up.

So if you go to the bursting, you will see where the flames lapped around the walls and possibly contrast that with the disaster at Grenfell, which was a tumble dryer that caught fire.

So this was a much, much more serious fire, but it was contained exactly as the building was designed to be contained.

I would personally like to thank the amazing, truly amazing Kent Fire and Rescue teams who

worked tirelessly through the night to extinguish the flames while facing the intense heat.

At the height of the incident there were 26 fire engines and a height vehicle at the scene.

We are also incredibly grateful to the extent of support shown by organisations from within

in our community.

The Three Hills Sports Park and the Sports Trust

absolutely responded to the first phone call they got

at half past two in the morning

and they had people out straight away.

The Salvation Army, there were people there

to greet the first people who arrived at the Sports Centre

with blankets, cups of tea,

and everything you would expect of the Salvation Army.

and a special mention for Morrison's, the supermarket,

who just kept bringing milk, bacon, bread, cheese,

you know, so they fed everybody.

So just, you know, fantastic the way

that the whole community responded to the emergency.

All of the responders helped ensure that the visitors

and the residents were looked after, supported, they were kept warm, they had food, they had

hot drinks. Again, I am appreciative that it's a real reminder of how caring this community

within this district is. This is obviously a fast -moving situation and I'm sure there

will be wider impacts moving forward, but as a Council we will do everything we can

to minimise these where we can.

And I'm happy to take any questions

if members want to ask.

Thank you, Chair.

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:06:18

Thank you for that, Jim.

That was great and a very sad event.

But you say the community rose to the occasion,

which is what it's all about really.

Any questions for Alida?

No?

Oh, Paul.

Yeah, thank you for the update, Jim.

Did you know if the basement

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:06:38

that had a fixed jet fire protection system installed,

which would have activated if there was fire

in the basement.

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:06:47

I'm not currently aware,

but I don't think it had a sprinter system.

One more, if I may.

Oh, sorry.

Again, I just think in terms of the people

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:07:03

who helped as well, the pub next door,

I mean, they welcomed everybody as well, didn't they?

and I think we need to say thank you to them.

But also, we've received communication tonight

about changes to the road layout there,

which is gonna allow the businesses,

particularly the chip shop, to operate,

and the harbour arm as well,

which is really great news, Jim, as well.

So again, I think people have done a great job

in assessing it, risk assessing it,

and then making sure that they could give people

safe access when it was safe to do so.

again, and just thank you to Fochtland High District Council, officers and staff for all

the excellent work they did in the early hours.

And it goes to show the importance, as you've already said, of having an emergency plan

and then making sure that that's enforced when you get a situation such as this.

Thank you very much and thanks for your support as well, Jim.

Thanks, Apple.

Bridget?

Thank you.

Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:08:02

I was going to also talk about the harbour in next door who were excellent and thank

you to everybody that's helped.

I know that residents from Pavilion Court are concerned about being able to access their

belongings and there may be pets in the building.

Can you give us any update on how they're being supported with that?

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:08:25

Yeah, so RSPCA volunteers have been into the building and have removed a lot of the pets.

I'm not sure if it's all of the pets, I assume it's all of the pets, but these included cats,

dogs, birds, spiders, snakes, and just about everything, I suppose. With regard to clothes,

it's been really difficult because when they were being evacuated, they were told just

one or two days, we're now in the third day and there's things like school uniforms that

are the issue. We're expecting to get a provisional sort of initial report from structural engineers

tomorrow morning. So the advice may change. Now my experience professionally in this situation,

although loss adjusters are who will be acting on behalf of Britannia Hotels Insurance Company,

loss adjusters are difficult people often, but they move very quickly. They move very,

very quickly, they don't have any tender process,

or they have the people they need more or less on tap.

So once the structural engineers give their

provision of advice, I'm assuming that everything

will happen very quickly, and we'll know where we stand,

particularly with Pavilion Court.

Once the cauldron can be removed,

then effectively it's Britannia Hotel is a problem.

It will be as helpful as we can.

But so, if it was in 24 hours time,

I'm sure I would be able to give you a much more detailed update.

Thank you. Clearly it's extremely traumatic for those people.

If there is anything additionally that we can do to support,

Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:10:28

including things like school uniform, whatever people need,

if there's any way of circulating that, I'd be really grateful. Thank you.

Yes, certainly. We don't think that all of these people have been

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:10:41

relocated into hotels at the moment. We're not anticipating that this is

a long -term thing, so we're kind of just taking it on an hour -by -hour basis.

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:11:00

Come back. Sorry, Jim. Is there any sort of early learning that's

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:11:04

out of this that might help other hotel owners, not just here in Folkestone but in Kent and

across the country with regard to this event, that if we could get it out there it might

help other people who might be in a similar situation.

I don't know if that's something that the fire service and the others have thought about.

Thank you.

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:11:27

I mean I think it's a really good point and there will be an overall report at the end

of this once.

I think again, probably the greatest praise must go to Britannia Hotel staff who got everybody out of that building.

They acted very, very promptly, very, very sensibly and they followed their own plan of evacuation.

Again, going back to Grenfell, other fire disasters where there's the stay put policy

versus the evacuate policy.

And I think probably that decision made very, very early by the staff at Britannia Hotels

probably saved lives.

I mean, obviously I can't say that conclusively, but the fire was significant, but people were

evacuated, they were out, which is, you know, damage to buildings is fair enough, but we'll

get over it.

It's the loss of life that everything is aimed at preventing.

So in answer to your question, I'm sure there will be a summary report.

I'm sure there's lots of lessons to be learned,

and we'll certainly play our part in contributing to that.

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:12:54

So again, I think it's a good opportunity for us to remind everybody

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:12:58

that when they go to hotels, places they're not used to,

to make sure they do understand what the emergency plan is,

they understand where their escape routes are and what they need to do,

because again, one of the first things that would happen is

all lights would have gone out and the lifts would have stopped.

So again, I think it's so important people understand the need to understand

what actions they need to take to save their own lives.

And thank you for that, Jim.

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:13:25

And I would just add to that point, Paul, if I may, is our role,

the role of the council.

We, you know, we didn't hesitate.

We have an emergency response plan,

and that was kicked into place as soon as the telephone call was received.

Andy got out of bed in the middle of the night and drove to direct operations on the ground.

And while inevitably there's going to be a lot of cost involved with regard to the hotel

and the repairs, the most important thing is every single person got out of there and

it was only really bumps and scrapes where people had stumbled on staircases or whatever.

So really, I know it sounds daft saying it, but from an emergency evacuation point of

view, it was a huge success.

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:14:31

Thank you for that and taking time when the first public opportunity to make an announcement

I think is excellent.

And if I could also add to thanks Susan Preece, our chief executive, for getting information

out to councillors so they would know about it because sometimes it takes a long while

for information to get through to the marsh.

But that was great, thank you.

But so we'll read our meeting paper is okay now and start again.

Right.

Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:15:00

let's see apologies for absence thank you chair we have apologies from

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:15:05

councillor Holgate and Akufu Kelly okay thank you for that declarations of

1 Apologies for Absence

interest to be having to declare okay thank you

2 Declarations of Interest

3 Minutes

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:15:17

that's right minutes are we happy have you read the minutes can we pass those

Show of hands, please.

Yes.

Unanimous?

Excellent.

Okay, now we're on to the main meat of the meeting.

4 Private Sector Enforcement Policy

So we have the private sector enforcement policy.

And who's gonna lead on that?

That will be me.

That'll be you.

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:15:40

Hello councillors, I'm Kerry Petts.

I'm the private sector housing manager

here at Fexton and Hyth Council.

I bring this to you as an update.

So we are in the process of updating our enforcement policy, mainly in response to the newly formed

Renters' Rights Act.

So the purpose of me coming today really is for you to acknowledge this update and allow

to give any feedback, but also to ask any questions,

but also to note that the enforcement policy,

once it's fully written, will be coming

to cabinet in November.

So the policy is still in draught form at the moment,

and we're trying to work in collaboration

with other Kent councils to try and align the policy

as much as we can across the Kent districts,

districts really to prepare for LGR if and when it happens.

Part of the implementation and mobilisation is so that officers will have a clear set of policy documents to refer to alongside government guidance.

We've been issued with an awful lot of guidance since the issue of the Renters' Rights Act, so we're busily familiarising with that.

but it also helps officers to have a policy to work alongside those guidance documents.

So, as I've already touched upon, why are we revising the policy? Well, LGR is a big

issue, but also we need to align our new powers and duties and provide further clarity for

So we're being given quite a few new powers and duties

due to the Renters' Rights Act.

And these include enforcing what they're calling

the landlord legislation.

This includes things like illegal eviction,

tenancy protections, that type of thing.

So the next slide will give you a bit more detail on that.

So the main points of the Renters' Rights Act

that are enforced already,

and then there's some provisions that are yet to come into force.

The main ones at the moment, the big one is the abolition of a Section 21 notice

and there are no assured short -hold tenancies anymore.

So if a landlord wants to evict a tenant now, they have to use a Section 8 form to do that

and they have to have a specific reason for doing so.

So you can't just evict a tenant for no reason whatsoever.

That should help an awful lot of tenants who have found themselves at the wrong end of

a no fault eviction.

We've got new duties and powers for illegal eviction and harassment.

We can now actually serve civil penalties for offences to do with illegal eviction and

harassment.

We've actually appointed an officer to help us with specifically investigating those kinds

of cases. There's also a lot of tenant protection provisions in place now, so to do with how

landlords advertise their properties, the rent that they charge, not encouraging rental

bidding. They can't discriminate against tenants and they can't unreasonably refuse a request

for a pet in a property as well.

We have got strengthened enforcement powers,

so we have new investigatory powers

with an emphasis on increased limits

for financial penalties.

And then there are other provisions

that are coming into force later on this year

or into next year, including the landlord registration,

which basically means every landlord in the country

will have to register on a government database and they will have to register all of their

properties and upload specific safety certificates to that entry and we will be tasked with enforcing

that provision. So quite a lot of extra things for us to be looking at in future. There's

also going to be a new landlord ombudsman scheme as well to run alongside the lettering

agent ombudsman scheme that is already in place.

The decent home standard is going to be applied to the private rented sector in time.

And also AWAB's law, which is active in the social housing sector at the moment, is also

going to be introduced to the private rented sector.

So lots of new things on the horizon.

Also we've got the minimum energy performance standards as well, minimum energy EPC certificate

of C by 2030, so landlords will be having to upgrade their properties for energy efficiency

as well.

So lots and lots for landlords to think about.

So the policy focuses on the points that I've just pretty much summarised.

We have our civil penalty policy already approved.

That was approved by cabinet in June and published in July.

We are doing some comms work with landlords to make sure they are aware of this new policy

because there are a lot of new breaches and offences which do attract civil penalties.

The policy is going to give further detail on all aspects of private sector housing enforcement.

It should be a one -stop shop document for landlords so they know what we are responsible

for enforcing and what their duties are.

So the revised policy, its basis is gonna be

the policy that is in place at the moment,

but then we're gonna add the new provisions

for the Renters' Rights Act, and all of our new powers

and duties to it.

The enforcement principles, including the obligations

under the Renters' Rights Act, and also introductory

sections for further review once these sections come into being. For instance, the licencing

of supported accommodation, which is another piece of legislation on our horizon as well.

So we're going to be tasked with licencing supported accommodation as well as HMOs and

other types of accommodation.

That is just a repeat of what I have said already.

Civil penalties policy approved in June.

The maximum fine now that we can issue is £40 ,000.

The test is beyond reasonable doubt.

It is the same test as we would use for prosecution.

So quite a lot of serious investigation work would have to come into being before we can

make the decision to serve a civil penalty.

We have a new civil penalty generator, which is a piece of computer software that is provided

to us by Justice for Tenants, which is a national body funded by the government.

This is going to make it a lot easier for my team to make the decisions around the level

of penalty to serve once we've established the offence.

And it's a way of keeping record of all of the penalties

in one place as well.

So that should be really useful.

Officers have had training on that now

and we do have access to that.

So as soon as we have a situation where we need

to serve a penalty, we can get cracking with using that.

The Assistant Chief Environmental Health Officers Group

group have a model debt recovery policy that they are due to publish soon, we may consider

adopting that to complement our civil penalty policy, which was also based on the ACEHO

model policy. So it's a way again of aligning with other local authorities in the whole

of the country and being as consistent as we can. So we'll see once that's published

to whether we need to adopt that

or whether we can just make amendments

to our own policies already in place.

So the timetable, the CPM generator is enforced now.

So this slide was written before we had the training

and we got access to the generator.

So that's an update there.

The private sector housing enforcement policy

will be coming to cabinet in November.

We will be doing an extensive engagement with landlords

and other stakeholders as a consultation

once the policy has been approved by cabinet as well,

just so that landlords and other stakeholders

get an opportunity to comment

and really get to grips with the new policy.

And also we're preparing for implementation

and enforcement of the landlord registration.

The rollout is proposed to start in other areas.

I think the first area is up north.

It's gonna start in December of this year.

The southeast region will be starting enrollment in March

with a deadline of July, I believe.

So once it comes into our area,

we will then be tasked with enforcing it

and making sure that landlords are registering

all their properties on that database.

We're also doing a lot of work to make sure that our information and data is in a format

that can be used for the mandatory private rented sector data return.

So the government are going to be tasking us with answering lots of questions and KPIs

around our enforcement activity, which is something new to us because we haven't had

to do that direct to government before.

So I've been working quite closely with our IT team

to make sure that the database that we have

has all the right fields in place

so that my officers are collating the right data

to then be able to pull it back out again

for that data return.

So we're progressing quite well

and that will be a mandatory provision from April next year.

So we're on track to be ready to do that.

So impacts and implementation, since the implementation of the Renters Rights Act, as I said, we've

recruited a tenancy enforcement officer.

He comes to us from an immigration enforcement background, so his enforcement and investigatory

powers are there already.

And he's already been investigating probably more than 20 cases now since these slides

have been written.

and is liaising with tenants and supporting them

with any issues they've got with illegal eviction

harassment type queries.

We're looking at considering further expansion of the team

and we should be able to fund that through the funding

that the government have given us.

We've been awarded burdens funding by the government

and further new burdens funding should be coming forward

from the income from the private rented database as well.

So that should help with us funding and resourcing

all of these new provisions.

And we're going to do some more further work to support

and give information to tenants and landlords.

Come November, it'll be six months since the first parts

of the Renters' Rights Act came into being.

So we're planning probably to do a landlord event

in conjunction with Dover District Council,

just to cheque in with landlords really

about their understanding of their duties,

how they're finding it,

whether they've got any queries or worries

that we can help them with really.

So a bit of an education and a catch up with them.

We've been doing some media coverage on social media as well

for tenants and landlords,

just so they're aware of their rights and their duties.

The wider teams have been doing a lot of training to gear us up for this new legislation that we are now in charge of.

So that's me, if you have any questions or feedback, please do feel free.

Right, do we have any questions? Thanks Kerry.

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:28:50

Do we have any questions?

Come on, thank you Alan.

Thank you, Tony, and thank you for that.

It was really interesting, and I must admit,

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:29:05

I come into this without a full understanding

of how much responsibility we've had in the past.

And you've actually answered most of the questions I had,

which were largely around,

it feels like there's a considerable additional burden

on us in terms of that enforcement responsibility.

And of course, that's enforcement when things go wrong,

as well as engaging with landlords

and making sure that they're clear on the rules.

And that just feels, it feels like a huge task.

And I guess I'm concerned, do we have the funding for that?

Do we have the resources for that?

You've sort of addressed that,

but I guess my refined questions now are,

so you mentioned this new burdens funding.

I guess my question is, is that a permanent line

of funding for us or is that short term

and then we have to pick up the pieces.

And I'll chuck my other couple of questions

that you've asked on that and then you can go all in one go.

So I'm interested the fines that we collect,

do we have to pass them on to someone else

or do we get to keep some of those fines

as part of recouping our costs for enforcing?

I think, maybe not a question, but I like the sound of it.

And then you mentioned that we get some form of income

from managing the landlord's register, I think.

So if you could say a little bit more about that,

that'd be great, thank you.

Yep, of course.

So if I, the new burdens funding,

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:30:42

we've had two lumps of funding so far.

I can't give you the totals off the top of my head,

but it's into the tens of thousands.

We have that ready there to spend on whatever we need to spend it on.

So we will be looking at potential of team expansion so that we have more officers on

the ground to deal with this new legislation and the enforcement of it.

The Tendency Enforcement Officer was the first part of that and we did actually use, partially

use some of the civil penalty income that we have generated prior to the Renters' Rights

Act coming into being to fund that post.

In answer to your question about the civil penalties, unlike prosecution, where if you take a court case,

if a fine is imposed by the court, we don't get to see that fine. That doesn't come back into our resources.

But with a civil penalty, it's ring -fenced for housing enforcement activity.

So we are sort of building quite a nice little pot of money through income from civil penalties,

as well as the burdens funding.

The government have recently announced

that the private sector database,

the landlord database that they will have to register to,

is going to be a fee of 65 pounds per entry.

So the income generation from that

will then generate more allocations to local authority.

We've not actually had the news on how much of that fee

as a proportion, local authorities are going to get at this point, but we have been indicated to that we will get some of it.

So the idea is that these first few lumps have been given to us as a tide over,

and then the PRS database should hopefully give us some sort of a regular income from then on,

because it's an annual fee as well.

So, okay.

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:32:42

Okay, on that, yes, thanks Kerry.

Paul.

Thank you, Chair.

I've got a couple of questions as well,

but thank you very much.

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:32:50

It's a great insight into what you have to deal with.

So, the tenancy enforcement officer,

in terms of roles and responsibilities,

is that defined in statute or is that in guidelines?

Or have we had to decide what their roles

and responsibilities are for that particular position?

I've got a couple of other questions

I'll ask them all together, that's okay.

Just in terms of, I'm really interested in this

landlords having to register.

So is there oversight of that register

that would prevent rogue landlords,

landlords who've actually got criminal records

or have got a history of not doing

what the Renters Rights Act wants good landlords to do.

So that's that question.

What's the penalty if landlords don't register?

Just in terms of, you said about licencing

and supported accommodation, that's HMOs,

I take it predominantly, is that correct or not?

And that's it, thank you very much.

The other question's Alan's already asked.

Thank you.

I will try and remember all of that.

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:34:07

I think I have notes for most of it.

The Tennessee enforcement officer role, historically, local authorities used to have landlord liaison

officers and they would be the ones that would deal with the illegal eviction, the harassment,

that sort of thing.

As time has gone on, a lot of local authorities did not have those posts anymore.

There is a national drought of that kind of role.

It was one of the roles that would always fall casualty to council cuts.

It would either be absorbed into other teams or not be a function at all because of resources.

The Renters' Rights Act has now placed a duty on us to enforce that legislation, so the

Protection from Eviction Act.

In that case, we therefore need somebody to enforce that piece of legislation.

So us, along with most other councils, have been scouring the country for people with

the skills to reignite that role.

It is a role that has been there historically.

And we have shared our job description for it with other councils and we kind of beg,

borrowed and steal job descriptions from other people that still had a tenancy liaison role

within the council.

So it is something that has developed since the Renters' Rights Act in more of an active

form but it is a role that has always been there historically as well.

So do they have right of entry into a property

so they can get to?

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:35:52

Because when you're dealing with enforcement,

when you're dealing with people who are road landlords,

often they're not gonna be very cooperative, are they?

I mean, speaking generally now.

So again, would that individual have the right

of entry into a property to allow him or her

to do their job in terms of enforcement?

the things that the Renters' Rights Act said the landlord should do.

Thank you.

Yes, absolutely.

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:36:23

We have powers of entry prior to Renters' Rights, but the Renters' Rights Act has actually

given us new investigatory powers, which include being able to enter business premises related

to the landlord as well.

So not only entering the property where the offence is being committed, but also it could

be the landlord's business premises as well.

and we can potentially seize documents, ask for information that we potentially wouldn't have been able to before

and of people that we wouldn't have been able to ask the information from before.

So, yeah, our powers have been extremely strengthened in that respect.

Absolutely, yeah.

Bridget?

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:37:01

Thank you, Chair. Forgive me, I'm trying to work out...

Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:37:06

I thought you finished.

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:37:10

That was just question one.

Sorry, there were others.

Sorry, Bridget.

I had to wait.

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:37:16

I might crack on, Kerry.

Oversight of the register, that is going to fall to us

as an enforcement duty.

So if a rogue landlord doesn't register,

if we know him as a rogue already,

we can go on and on.

can cheque on the register to see if he's on there, and if he's not, then we can enforce

that. So there are penalties for that. I can't tell you the level of penalty off the top

of my head, but it is in the civil penalty policy. So yes, we can do that and investigate

why they've not registered. They're going to be given a three month window to register.

So we fully expect that they should be doing that. But as you say, probably the rogues

are going to be the ones that will try and surf under the radar.

But that's what we're here for.

Sorry, I can't remember the penalties question.

What was that? The third question?

Sorry, it was just what's the penalty if landlords don't register?

Ah, right, yes. Well, there is a penalty as in we can serve a civil penalty,

but the actual level of that I would have to cheque and get back to you.

I can't remember off the top of my head.

The supported accommodation, it is not just houses in multiple occupation.

Supported accommodation by definition, if you talk to a housing benefits officer, they

would call it exempt accommodation.

It is where you have a tenant that needs extra support.

It might be a living carer, it could be somebody on site to provide them with life skills,

just overseeing their day -to -day living, that sort of thing.

So I think the government have recognised

that that type of accommodation kind of falls through

all the other nets a lot of the time.

So a specific licencing scheme for that

is gonna come into being, and that will look at

not only the property condition

and the facilities available, but also the level of care

that that person is getting.

I think that is a good thing.

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:39:23

OK, Bridget, Mark 2.

Thank you,

Chair.

Please bear with me,

Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:39:32

because I had lots of questions and some were

answered by your presentation and some

have been answered subsequently.

I'm trying to work out

what I still...

Am I right in thinking that a number of

existing people on the list

are going to be reassessed?

On the housing register are going to be

reassessed, is that right?

That's the next.

Oh, it's next, sorry.

Yeah, I think that might be a good idea.

I'm getting really, really confused.

I'm sorry.

Thank you for your enforcement.

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:40:04

While you're looking it up, Richard, we'll go to Laura.

Please, yes.

Yeah, thank you.

Yes, no, sorry.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:40:09

Yes, thank you for the presentation.

I think there are a few things

I was thinking about.

The fact that it is called

new

burdens funding,

I know it is called that,

but it is a bizarre title,

when a lot of this is very positive

and should make a difference

to our residents.

I prefer it to have a more positive

name.

The tenancy enforcement

officer title

as well,

I think maybe if we are

boosting the team, which sounds like it would be

a positive thing to do, might be good to think about

the titling of the role as well,

because it wouldn't be immediately obvious to me

that that person was there to help renters

with issues that they might have.

I get that's what it's trying to say,

but you could have a renters rights officer

or something like that,

that just was maybe a bit more immediate.

I was really pleased that you said you were gonna do

some more work around communicating,

because there are a lot of changes, aren't there,

to make sure that renters and landlords, of course,

know what these new rights are

and how they should be operated.

Wasn't sure if you were saying the consultation

was going to be open to everybody

or whether it was purely focused on landlords.

And also you talked about an event for landlords,

but is there going to be an event for renters, for example,

to make sure that people understand these things?

And it sounds as though it's challenging

to get people working in this area.

So is there an opportunity for training people up locally

into these roles as part of our work

to boost employment locally?

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:41:58

Okay, so the event for renters,

that is something that we have on our to -do list.

Once we are fully mobilised

with enforcing the Renters Rights Act,

which is a work in progress,

We're looking at policies and procedures and all that sort of thing at the moment.

Once that is in place, we certainly will be doing some more work with the tenants.

There's a lot of comms out there already from the government centrally for renters,

and we have our web pages as well that we can point tenants towards.

Part of the tenancy enforcement officer's role will be and is already proactively seeking

queries from people.

So when one of my private sector housing officers

goes out on a call, the tenancy enforcement officer

will quite often tag along just to have a conversation

with that tenant about do they feel that everything

is going along okay with their tenancy

apart from the conditions, issues that we're dealing with

with the private sector housing officer.

And quite often, things are sort of coming to the surface

by him using that line of questioning in a friendly way with the tenant and giving advice

at that visit as well.

So there's quite a bit of that going on already.

In terms of training local people, the tenancy enforcement officer we have at the moment

is just about to embark on an apprenticeship scheme specifically for tenancy enforcement

officers.

So it will upskill him with all of the Renters Rights Act provisions and the enforcement

provisions as well. Obviously he's being trained on the job too, but the

apprenticeship will definitely enhance that and if further expansion of the

team does occur then we would consider using that apprenticeship again for

further officers brought into the team. And the consultation you talked about?

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:43:58

Is that an open consultation? Yes, no that would be wider so we'll use comms

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:44:03

channels to put the policy out there to anyone that wants to comment on it

but we will do some specific engagement with landlords

as well because they will be the ones

that are affected by it the most.

Okay, thank you for that.

John.

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:44:16

Thank you, Chair.

Only one quick question.

Cllr John Wing - 0:44:20

You're talking when we're talking about

the landlords register,

there's certain certificates that need to be applied.

Are we still talking gas safety certificates

and safety certificates basically like that, is it?

Yep, at the moment I'm aware of it's going to be

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:44:33

electrical safety, gas safety, energy performance certificate.

So, yeah, there could be other things that are added as time goes on.

But I think they're trying to keep it simple at the moment.

And then as it rolls out, we may find that they expand on what

needs to be uploaded to their entries.

Cllr John Wing - 0:44:52

Yeah, it's very good to understand quite often.

So if you've got gas safety certificate without that in the electric,

so it's good that that's on. Thank you.

Any more questions?

That's Thora.

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:45:03

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:45:04

And just to comment, obviously we haven't seen the policy,

so we haven't been able to comment on the policy itself,

so can it be circulated when it's ready?

Good point.

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:45:14

Thanks for that, but I'm interested in myself

in the sense that I would think I'm the only one

in this room who actually is a private renter.

And if you get good landlords, they need protecting,

as well as a bad one de -sorting out.

So it's not a case of renting is bad.

So I assume in pretty quick time,

you'll know who's good and who isn't,

and you'll know who to focus on.

But I would expect that the whole operation,

it'd be getting funding from the government,

will be cost neutral to this council,

at least in the first year.

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:45:51

Well, in answer to your comment about the landlords,

we pretty much know who the good ones

and the bad ones are already.

It's only really the bad ones

that come across our desk.

We only really get to meet the good ones

at the landlord engagement events that we do.

So yeah, I think we've got a fair idea

of who our rogues are already.

In terms of the cost, you know,

in the funding of the team,

the new burdens funding is a godsend really,

because that will allow us to expand our team,

which is not something that we've had the opportunity

to do before and probably did need to do

before the Renters' Rights Act came in.

So I'm really looking forward to a strengthened team

and us to actually get out there

and do some really good work.

It's a very important point,

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:46:40

because we can strengthen it,

it knocks into other areas that we do.

So I'm a great believer in strengthening

because we have enough problems as it is,

and lack of manpower is certainly one of them.

But anyway, if you're, oh, sorry, Laura.

Yeah, sorry, I did have one more thing on my list,

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:46:56

but I didn't pick it up when I was speaking,

which is just to say what enforcement action

has actually already taken place?

And you said that you'll have to log it,

which I think is gonna be a good way

of tracking it, isn't it?

But are there possibilities to also do communications

around enforcement that's taken place

in a way that promotes good activity

and means that landlords who are perhaps

on your list of the not so good

are aware of the penalties that might come

and up their game, which would be a positive

if it's preventative work rather than having

to do enforcement at the other end.

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:47:38

The Renters' Rights Act has just added

more powers and duties.

We've done housing enforcement for, well,

for lots of years.

I've been in the game 30 years

and it was being enforced before that.

But the Housing Act 2004 brought in

the health and safety rating system.

So since then, our sort of enforcement

has been based on housing conditions.

So this new Renters' Rights Act really brings into being

more about how the tenants are being treated as well.

So it's an enhancement to the action

that we're already taking.

But yes, we could do some publicity around that,

but I'm not quite sure how we would do that

other than some comms through social media

or something like that,

or maybe an update report to scrutiny

or something like that in the future.

I think there have been press releases

in the past as well, haven't there?

I think it's had to be done in the appropriate way,

but it could be an opportunity.

Yeah, I mean, just to add as well,

the Renters' Rights Act has meant that we have a duty

to enforce now, whereas before we had a decision to take enforcement action, so we had that

discretion and we prided ourselves in liaising and educating landlords a lot of the time.

So our enforcement activity has probably not been as high as it might be in the future

because, you know, we pride ourselves in building really good relationships with a lot of landlords

in the area and they do comply on an informal basis.

So yeah, the ones that don't, we do enforce obviously.

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:49:26

If we're all happy, but I would actually agree with Laura,

but we should put this onto our world tracker

and in a year's time when we've had a chance

to evaluate how it's all going for you,

you can come back and tell us how well you're doing

and that would be a good idea I think.

So making up that Jake.

He does.

So if we are happy with that, to note the presentation.

Do I have a composer?

Paul, seconder?

Thank you, Elaine.

And unanimous show of hands, I hope.

Right, thank you very much.

Right, thank you for that.

Very good, thank you.

Right, moving on.

housing allocations policy.

It's a very long document.

I only had a chance to read it.

I did go speed read it through.

5 Housing Allocations Policy

This is quite complicated.

It challenged me, these things always do.

So, but basically I've had a bad chance to consider this.

And is it, who's doing that?

Adrian?

Yeah, well done.

Over to you, Adrian.

Mr Adrian Hammond - 0:50:33

Good evening, everyone.

I'm gonna give you a very brief presentation

on our new draught housing allocations policy.

So firstly, the background to this document.

The key thing is that the allocation policy

sets out how applicants are prioritised

for council and housing association rented homes

in the district.

We allocate around 250 to 300 homes each year

to people from our housing register.

We're required by law to have an effective policy in place to measure needs and to measure

priority of people on our housing register.

And the policy has to be in line with guidance and best practise that's issued by central

government.

And our current policy has been in place...

I'm sorry, I've not put it onto the slideshow.

It's not clicked on.

So, as I was saying, our current policy has been in place since 2017 and we've been reviewing

that over the last few months.

The draught document that presented in the report tonight builds on the principles of the current

policy and I think the key point is that we are required to give reasonable preference

to certain people within the community who are in housing need and that is people who

are homeless and owed a duty by the council, people who are living in poor housing conditions

or overcrowded conditions in the district, people who need to move due to medical reasons

or welfare reasons and also people who need to move to prevent hardship to themselves

or to others, so that could be people who need to move

to support family or to move themselves

to get support from family members.

So the updated policy that we presented tonight

reflects recent changes in government guidance

and best practise.

We've looked to present it in a much more accessible format

than it has been in the past.

The previous document was quite short,

and I think it's fair to say limited on some detail.

So we're looking to make the policy easy to use

for both applicants and for officers as well

who work with that policy daily,

processing new applications and placing people

on our housing register.

So the key changes within the new draught

are there were changes to reflect guidance from government

around the arrangements for people

who are fleeing domestic violence, we have a statutory duty to respond in a

particular way. We have been implementing that since those changes have been put

in place by government, but it was important that they are properly

reflected in the new policy. We've made some changes around the way people

who have a history of rough sleeping and are rough sleeping in the district

evidence their local connexion with the district. That is often quite difficult

for people who may not have all the documentation that other people

within the community hold, but there may be a long track record of them working with support

agencies in the district, so we can look to use that sort of information to support their

links to the district.

We've also updated the savings and income thresholds for people looking to join the register

to make sure that they're reflecting current income and affordability indicators in the

district.

Within the current policy, people with housing debt are currently not allowed to join the

housing register within the new policy.

We, again, and that's in line with best practise

from government, we are looking to allow people

to go on to the register with debts up to 1 ,500 pounds.

But they will need to show evidence of reducing

that debt down before they will get

an offer of accommodation.

Again, that is in line with best practise,

something that all authorities across the county

and across the country will implement and do implement.

Also, we put new measures within the policy

around effective dates for former members

of the armed forces so that it will be based,

their effective date, that is the date of their application

which will determine where they would sit

within a particular banding point

within our housing register,

will be based on the years of service within the forces.

So the effect of that would be to give an increased

level of priority for that particular group.

We've also updated provisions for care leavers

and also households that are looking to foster

and adopt children.

Again, that's in line with national guidance

and best practise.

So going forward, the new draught policy is due to go

to cabinet in October.

Following that subject to cabinet approval, it will then go out for a period of public

consultation with applicants on our housing register and the wider community as well.

We have already introduced the draught policy to our tenant group as well to give them an

opportunity to give their views as well on the draught.

So the purpose of tonight is to give overview and scrutiny to the community, an opportunity

to comment and provide feedback to cabinet

ahead of their meeting next month.

Thank you for that Adrian.

Right, who wants to start?

Bridget.

I'm gonna give it a go and see if I can get it

better this time.

Hi, thanks, there's a huge report, loads of work

that's gone into it, I can see that,

so thank you very much for that.

Can I just cheque?

It says there are no substantial changes overall,

but there seem to be quite a lot of changes to me.

What measurable outcomes will you use to determine

12 or 24 months after implementation,

where the new policy has actually improved

the allocation service?

I've got a few more questions,

so is it okay to do them in one go?

I think you've got 1 ,346 households currently

on the register, how many are expected to change band

be removed from register or have their effective day altered

as a result of the policy?

And have you modelled the impact of the new policy

on the existing waiting list?

And I was wondering how many households currently

on the register would fail the new financial test

if assessed today?

Those are the questions I've got.

I might have some more, but for now,

those are the ones I'd like to ask.

Don't worry, Virginia, you can cut and come again.

Thank you.

We'll crack on with that bit first.

Yeah, thanks.

Okay, Adrian.

Yeah, I have two songs on those points.

In terms of performance, one thing that we do know

is that we have a captive audience of people on our register.

We can communicate with them relatively easily

through their housing portals.

So we would certainly initially be advising every applicant

that the new policy's out for consultation

to give them an opportunity to comment on it.

And going forward, we can continue to communicate

with that group to get their views and concerns

about how the registers work in going forward.

We have a duty to keep the register under review

to make sure that it is fully up to date

and in line with government guidance.

So we will continually review the document.

We will look for issues that may emerge from particular cases

and concerns that residents might have as well.

So I can't give you any particular indicators

that we will look.

I'm not going to pinpoint on anything.

I think we need to see how the policy operates

on a day -to -day basis and see if there are any further areas

that need more fine -tuning and improvement going forward.

In terms of people that may be, I think,

you suggest asked to leave the register

or added to the register, that is something

that we do on an ongoing basis anyway.

People are required to register,

once they're registered, to update their application

on an annual basis.

So we look at each application

on the anniversary of their application,

and we assess their income and their circumstances

to make sure that they're still current.

We also cheque income as well

before we make allocations to properties as well.

So those cheques are carried out on an ongoing basis.

In terms of potential people being asked to leave the Register, in respect to this policy,

we don't envisage that there will be a large number of people being requested to leave,

other than the natural process that I've mentioned of every year where we review applications

to make sure that those circumstances are current.

So we're not, we're envisaging though that any changes will be implemented through the annual updates rather than through our very, through the register,

looking at each case at this particular moment in time.

And then I think the financial test as well, I think that's the same situation.

We would review that on an annual basis and as I said before, we make any offers of accommodation.

We request that applicants provide supporting information on income, et cetera.

so that we can review that before an allocation is made.

Thank you for that.

I was just wondering if it is possible to model it.

I mean, that may not be possible,

Cllr Bridget Chapman - 1:00:31

but I think it would be helpful to know

how many people it might knock off the list in advance.

I think it would be based on any changes

Mr Adrian Hammond - 1:00:43

in income situation over the last year.

I have to say, I'm not aware that on that,

I don't have figures on an annual basis

of how many people are requested to leave the register.

I'm happy to do some work on that outside the meeting

to see if we can give you an indication

of how many people will leave.

I think the main reason that people do leave

is because they move out of the area

or they're allocated accommodation.

They are the main reasons that people leave the register,

but I'm certainly happy to look

to see if we have got some indicators.

That would be a good idea.

I think that may give you more reassurance.

to get information from Adrian in the future?

Yeah, I think Andy has just made a point,

the thresholds are actually going up rather than down.

What we've tried to do is take account of changing incomes

and obviously the cost of accessing private rented

accommodation and other forms of accommodation.

So the thresholds are going up.

So I suspect there will be very few people

that will be asked to leave a register because of income,

but we can try and get a bit more detail on that for you.

Sure, I think I was sort of more widely,

because there's some changes,

Cllr Bridget Chapman - 1:01:50

just making sure that it doesn't impact too much

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:01:55

on people already on the register.

Cllr Bridget Chapman - 1:02:00

I think the actual changes that we're implementing

are actually increasing people's ability

Mr Adrian Hammond - 1:02:05

to access the register and the priority

that we award to particular client groups

rather than reducing.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:02:16

Okay, next on my list is Paul.

Thank you, Chair.

Yeah, thank you for the presentation.

It was really, and the supporting documentation.

Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:02:24

There's a lot there to absorb really,

isn't there, I think it's fair to say.

Just following on from Councillor Chapman's question really,

it's something I would have been interested in

in terms of the data side of things,

to see a before and after.

So, you know, what's the, what's, how many people are in each of the banding, are in the bandings now?

And when the policy is implemented, what change will that, will there be?

Because again, I think in terms of, you know, the good news storeys are part of this, where we're actually being,

you know, proactive about, you know, looking at the data that we already know and trying to address those things that we know are of concern,

or we know that the government want to have a focus on it

in terms of, you know, reducing the number of rough sleepers,

reducing homelessness and that kind of thing.

So I think for us to have that data would be really quite handy

because then I think it just tells the storey in a fairly simple picture

of the things that you've just alluded to us in terms of answering Councillor Chapman's question.

The other thing I think which is very good,

it's a positive, is associated with section 3 .4

on the local connexion test,

and the fact that there are people being taken out

of that now in relation to those people

who have suffered domestic abuse

don't have to go through that test.

So again, it's just demonstrating we're supporting

the most vulnerable people, those people who really do need

our assistance to get the support from us

and to get us into a safe place.

So I think that's a really positive part of it.

And again, I think just in terms of that test as well,

this whole thing with those people

who are coming out of prison, for example,

where they couldn't previously demonstrate

a local connexion, you know, will be allowed to

put their name down, as it were.

And again, I think the other positives for me

the bits we're doing with regard to armed forces personnel,

that seems to be a really positive step

to help them to get back into civilian life

and into a non -military social circle as well.

And the same applies to the foster carers

and those people who are looking to adopt as well.

I think there's some very positive parts of this

which will really help an awful lot of people

and a lot of people who are very vulnerable as well,

so thank you very much for that, thank you.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:05:05

Just one point, coming back to your council,

Mr Adrian Hammond - 1:05:11

I think we are already prioritising those groups

in the work that we're doing at the moment.

What we sought to do in the policies

to reinforce that within the text.

The government's brought in guidance previously

and new legislation which we've had to implement

because we're required to do so.

So within this document, we've documented it

so it's clear to applicants so that they know

that the priority that will be awarded to their application.

We don't envision there will be large increases

in the number of people in particular bands on our register

for that very reason because we're already awarding

that priority through our statutory duties to do so.

In terms of the sort of domestic abuse and issues like that,

obviously we can't, that's one thing we can't predict

how many people in those circumstances might approach us

in any particular year.

But as I said, we are already implementing

that aspect of legislation as well

in terms of the way we respond to those cases.

Come back.

Yeah, thank you very much.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:06:18

Again, I think just in terms of over -the -nude scrutiny,

Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:06:23

the things that we see when we look at the KPIs, for example,

is the increasing number of rough sleepers that we've seen,

the increasing in the number of homeless people

who have to deal with the impact that that's having

on our available funding.

Anything which will help to get us an early sight of that

or a better understanding of that, I think, is very positive.

And all that seems to be coming out of here.

So I think, you know, a lot of things,

some of the questions we've asked in relation to KPIs

and what we're doing, I think this policy will address

some of those things, some of the questions

that this committee has asked within the last year or so.

So thank you very much for that.

Thank you, Tony.

If I could just add to that, Paul,

because we have a work tracker,

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:07:09

which will track these things as and when they come in.

But besides that, I'm a great believer in information flow.

If people show interest in this thing, in this committee,

how do you get information, good and bad, share it.

Don't wait to be called in,

because I think in that situation it's much more fluid

and we can actually try and help you as best we can.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:07:32

Thank you, Tony.

I think I'm gonna build on Bridget's point a little bit

Cllr Alan Martin - 1:07:38

and Paul to a certain extent,

but I guess I'm similarly curious.

So the policy, I can't fault the policy in any way.

So we're highlighting appropriately

people who are particularly vulnerable at risk

and kind of accelerating through the system.

We're making it easier for people to join the list.

We're increasing the threshold

so more people can join the list.

But of course, there were people originally on the list.

So putting more people onto the list

and moving some people on that list up the list

is very positive for the people

that we are bringing in and moving up.

And less positive for the people who are moving more

to the back of the queue.

And I think, I similarly am not quite sure

how to articulate what the ask is,

but when Bridget's saying, have we modelled this in any way,

I guess I'd be keen to have a bit of a view of

what are we expecting in terms of how much longer

the register's gonna be,

and how much shifting around

is there gonna be of people who may have been on there

for a number of years and providing their updates

to you annually, and maybe they thought

they were starting to make some progress

and they've suddenly taken sort of four steps back.

So, and I just don't know how much of a concern that is,

because I can't quite picture the magnitude

of the change that's being put through.

So I think if that's what you were thinking

when you were saying can we model it,

I would completely agree, and I wonder whether that is

something that we could take a view at now,

and then to Paul's point, when we look at our KPIs,

we're trying to look at the broader picture

of the problem that we're dealing with.

If we had some way of showing that,

that might give us an additional level of clarity, I guess.

I'm going to say there, because I think you're right,

and I think Richard's right as well.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:09:39

So we are looking at providing feedback to cabinet on this.

So it's a case of I think regular updates

on how we're doing the trends.

So we know, run and wait for year

to come back in here again.

I think for the department to use us

as a sounding board as well is not a bad thing.

I think as long as that information is flowing,

I don't need to be that secret to us.

But I think it needs to be evaluated.

Yeah, if I could just hop in there before the guys respond.

Cllr Alan Martin - 1:10:12

But I agree with that.

I guess, so I've not seen the register.

So I don't know, is everyone on the register already allocated to a group?

And then you can see how groups are moving around relevant to one another and then people

within that group.

If that's the case, then I think seeing that and then seeing how that changes would be

of interest over time.

but particularly as this new policy comes in, sort of before and after, I think, yeah.

Right, Joel.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:10:39

I think that's about all.

We'll come back to Adrian.

Mr Adrian Hammond - 1:10:47

Just to respond on that point, Councillor.

Applicants, when we assess a particular level of need,

the document explains that we have bans E to A.

So if we've assessed a particular case and that applicant is placed in BAN B, they would go into that date

and their effective date would be the date that they have been assessed as being at that particular level of need.

That won't change. They would remain.

So if an applicant was put in BAN B, say on the 25th of January this year, that date would remain the same.

that date would only change if there was a change

in the circumstances and perhaps their case

was found to be even more severe than it was

and perhaps they were moved up to Band A.

Band A is a very small group of clients.

They are the people in the most extreme need

who need to move absolutely now

for a very small set of circumstances.

So once people are placed in the list,

they will stay at that position

until there's a change in the circumstances.

is we really do not envisage people leaving the register.

As I think we come back to the point I made earlier

in that what we're doing here is we're spelling out

the changes in legislation that have happened recently

by government in respect of domestic abuse,

the ways the council should respond to former members

of their own forces and towards care leavers

and people looking to adopt it.

We're just spelling that out in the policy.

we have no choice on that, we have to implement,

that's what the guidance says we have to do.

So, the register changes all the time,

people join the register on a daily basis

for a range of reasons, people leave the register

because their needs are met.

It's very fluid, but I'm happy to try

and give you some information on bans,

is perhaps if you were able to see the number of people

in each of the vans at some point in time,

we can take a picture of it as it is now

and how that reflects going forward

to see if there is any substantial change in numbers.

I'm certainly happy that we can get that information.

That's great.

Right, John.

Thank you.

All right, my first point is just a comment really.

Cllr John Wing - 1:13:12

Thank you for that excellent policy.

I know a lot of these things are out of your control, but I do like the fact that the care

leave is anti -local connexions is very good.

I've got a slight concern with prisoners leaving.

I understand from the information that they can register up to 12 months before their

release date and they're going to Band E, but they've got to be released within the

next five days to be considered for property.

And with release and people getting released early, I don't really see how it's going to

but I know it's the government thing

and that's what they set up to be.

Now when you're gonna release within that next five days

to get a property, I don't know,

I'm sure it's gonna work,

but obviously that's not your problem.

That's what the policy is and you gotta work to that.

Main question is, it talks about annual review.

Everybody gets an annual review.

Not everybody does this by the porthole.

It's just saying that if you haven't got access

to internet, you can come into the office

and they'll do it for you.

How do you tell those people that haven't got access

to their, get their email saying,

oh, you're up for the annual review,

please confirm your store interest in this house.

How do you get the people walking through the door,

basically, how do you let them know

that they need to confirm that they still need property?

Mr Adrian Hammond - 1:14:27

I think so, yeah, I think so, yeah.

Obviously, we have staff members

in the customer access point

who are able to help in those circumstances.

And we would generally pick that information

when people first join the register,

so we'd be aware of any difficulties

that they might have through using the online system.

And certainly officers do help some clients.

We can also help through automatic bidding as well

for people as well if they're struggling

to actually express interest in property

through Kent Home Choice, so we can set those things up

and speak to relatives, et cetera,

to get that information if we need to.

But clients do ask for support and we do respond to them.

So if it comes up to a ban, we'll review,

some of you contact them and just confirm

they're still interested in being on register basically.

Is that what you're saying?

Well, we would use the communication method

that we've agreed with the applicant

when they join the register.

And obviously, yeah, that's what we would do.

Yeah, okay.

Thank you for that, Adrian.

Laura?

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:15:39

Thank you.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:15:42

I guess the fact that the policy is almost getting on

for 100 pages is symptomatic of where we are

in terms of the pressures there are on the housing

that is available.

So I think it is quite difficult reading in places,

isn't it, in terms of the detail that it has to go into.

What would be quite helpful, I think, is to understand

understanding the policy, what is the legislation part of it

and what is kind of locally local policy

or if it's all legislative,

because I wasn't totally clear on that reading through.

It talks about it being a policy,

but obviously it's underpinned by legislation.

And I don't know whether, you know,

all of the elements in it are legislative or not

and how is the language part of that as well.

there is a reference on page 73 or 106,

depending on which version.

I have both numbers on my paper copy,

where it talks about a child aged one year or over,

but under the age of 10 shall be as half a unit

brackets person.

I mean, I don't think we want to be thinking about

children under 10 as half a person,

but that may be a legislative language, I don't know.

My question was going to be about the financial levels.

Obviously, I think it's a positive step

that it won't be the case that people

with housing -related debt won't be able to join at all.

They will be able to under this.

I'm wondering how that figure of 1500 arises.

Is that a legislative kind of standard figure

or is that a figure we've come up with

and how have we come up with that?

and do we know what the average housing -related debt is

within our district?

And we're saying here that you can join,

but then you won't be able to be offered accommodation

until you've got it down to 300 pounds or less.

So that's really the real number, isn't it?

Not the 1 ,500.

Again, I'm wondering how that's been come up with

and whether we're going to be supporting people

who do join at the 1500 level to manage their debts downwards,

whether we can have a proactive way of supporting people

so they are then able to access housing

rather than just staying on the register

but never being able to,

which I think could be a really frustrating situation

or indeed being knocked off it again

if their situation gets worse.

And I think the only other thing that I wondered was,

do you think an easy read version of this policy

would be possible?

There is a summary which I think is good,

but it's very short, isn't it, in relation to the policy as a whole?

Mr Adrian Hammond - 1:18:35

So, in terms of the income and savings criteria that you mentioned, Councillor Davidson,

that is what we've done there is we've looked at other policies around Kent as well to try and be

in line with those documents as well. There aren't specific figures quoted by government,

but certainly the emphasis from government in terms of guidance is that we should look

to give people an opportunity to join the register and obviously to try and work and

manage debt where there is a housing -related debt in place.

And certainly that is something that officers will be doing.

And there are provisions within the policy where if there is particular housing needs

and debt is an issue where there is scope for exceptional circumstances cases to be considered by senior leadership team within housing as well.

So we will work with applicants to reduce that debt wherever we can and obviously make sure that they're accessing all the benefits, etcetera, that they're able to if that's an issue.

but that is certainly something that we would work on

and focus on to try and reduce that debt wherever we can.

Does that?

Yeah, I mean that's positive.

Do we have figures for the average housing related debt

in the district?

I don't have a figure for that at the moment.

I can certainly look into that.

We could probably get something certainly

from our HRA stock.

I mean, our rent arrears runs generally at less than 2%.

So whilst I don't have individual debt levels two -hand,

it runs at approximately 2%, and we've got a lot of support in.

We have a lot of people working.

We use special software to identify people that might go into arrears,

and then we work with them, and we signpost them to the welfare team,

and things like that.

So we've got lots of initiatives going on to try and reduce that.

But we could probably find an average within the HRA.

I'm about to say it generally runs at about less than 2%.

Can I just come back on that, Chair?

Because we're talking about people.

Are we talking about people with housing related debt

outside of our housing, though, aren't we,

who are joining the register?

They could be outside.

They could be inside looking to move to another property

within the HRA or to a registered provider.

But they could be people who are outside.

So yeah, I wonder whether there are other ways

that we could, if we don't have those figures,

get an understanding of what the average level might be.

I'd just be interested to know how that compares

with the position across the district.

I think the other point to sort of consider on that

is that where we are making nominations

to registered providers, housing associations in the district,

they will also have their own policies in place

around levels of debt that they may accept particular applicants as well.

So we have to work within those constraints as well.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:21:47

Are you okay, Laura? Are you okay on that?

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:21:51

Yeah, I was just going to say, presumably we have those figures

so we know what other providers have as debt levels.

Any data which is available...

We can see together that.

Yeah.

But I'm nearly subject to their own internal policy changes

as well that may be made within their board

that we can't directly influence,

but I can certainly, we can get some of that information.

Yeah, it would just be helpful to set it in context, I think.

And the easy read question?

Easy read, we can.

Mr Adrian Hammond - 1:22:21

I think we try to put more detail in.

If you look at the current policy,

it is very simplistic and straightforward.

It does cause or has caused some difficulties,

particularly for officers where the detail

may not be clear enough and sufficient.

And also for applicants as well.

I think no one's got a point.

But I'd take it, yeah.

We've tried to.

It's a hard read, it's a hard read.

We tried to reflect the new legislation and guidance.

We tried to reshape the policy.

In the old version, some aspects of it were,

but they didn't flow properly.

We tried to pull them all together in one section.

But as much detail as we can into the appendices as well.

So, but we will certainly look at that

and see what we can do.

Okay, thank you for that.

Bridget.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:23:12

Just going back to Laura's point about the debt levels

before you can get on the register.

Cllr Bridget Chapman - 1:23:19

I'm thinking specifically of the people coming from outside

into the system.

And the rents have doubled in the 12 years

I've lived in Folkestone.

When I first moved here, you could get a one bedroom flat

for 450 pounds a month and we're now looking at

a thousand pounds or more, they've doubled.

So sometimes those rent rears, they're going to be,

the levels of debt are going to be eased substantially

if we can get them into social housing,

where the rents aren't so far outside

of what they can afford.

And I'm just wondering if these figures

could inadvertently disadvantage households

where debt is a consequence of poverty

or previous housing insecurity,

and that's precisely the people who the social housing

is intended for.

So I'm concerned about those figures being so fixed,

So you're higher for bigger families.

Yeah, if you're a bigger family with more children,

then that debt is going to be higher,

because the rent is going to be higher.

Very fair points, because it is a very fluid situation.

But we have good officers who are handy situations

on a regular basis, and I expect they have expertise

in this to try and sort out my A from B.

I haven't quite finished, sorry.

And so that was one point.

And then the other point was about the section on pets.

This is something that comes up quite a lot

where people aren't able to keep pets.

And I just wonder if we could make this sound

a bit more generous, this 12 .12 section,

and say something along the lines of the permission

to keep a pet would not be unreasonably withheld.

Because I think it's really important

for people's mental health,

I don't see why, because you're renting rather than having your own property, you're less able to keep a pet.

So those are the two things that I would say.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:25:32

I agree with the thought that you shouldn't have a hard line, but it's going to be evaluated, because it's not just you in a rented situation.

It's also your neighbours and everything else, and safety and whatever.

So it depends, it depends. But I think officers can look into that as well.

I'm sorry, you answering the question.

Cllr Bridget Chapman - 1:25:49

I'm asking the officers.

No, I'm not answering the question.

I'm giving you a view.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:25:54

Thank you.

Cllr Bridget Chapman - 1:25:57

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:25:58

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:26:01

Mine's a related point, Chair, if I could come in.

Yep, no means.

Obviously, we've just had a discussion about pets

under the Renters Rights Act.

So I think thinking about how this relates to that

and that there's an equality there

that could be a helpful thing maybe.

I will certainly look at 12 .4

Mr Adrian Hammond - 1:26:24

and show that it currently reflects

the wording and sentiment that it should.

We'll look at that outside the meeting.

I think the other point on it is that obviously

it has to tie in with our own policies

in terms of our housing stock as well

and that of registered providers as well.

But we will certainly look at that.

Any more questions?

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:26:52

No?

Okay, thank you for that.

I'm sure that Jake's captured some of the comments

to go back to the cabinets.

I'll be happy to receive a note report.

Okay, proposal?

Laura, seconded.

Aneesa.

And a show of hands, please.

Unanimous. Great.

Thank you.

Being very patient.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:27:29

The cabinet member updates.

6 Cabinet Member update

We have a Councillor Rebecca Shueb,

the cabinet member for housing and homelessness,

has submitted a cabinet member update for consideration by the committee.

It's been a long time since the committee has been in the process of doing that.

Do we have any views or do we go through it self -reading?

Or what?

I won't go through the whole thing.

Highlights.

Yeah, I won't go through the whole thing.

Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 1:27:52

I guess the highlight that I want to bang on again about

is the top C1 rating that the team, the council,

has achieved that recognition by the Regulator of Social Housing

for our landlord service, I think is a great reflection

of the work that the council does as a landlord.

So for me, that's obviously been a real highlight

of the year.

We've also, we have delivered a lot more homes,

council homes throughout the year.

As I've noted, there are more in the pipeline to come.

A lot of, yeah, we've talked about the waiting list.

You've had the presentation on the enforcement policy,

which I think gave you a bit of a flavour as well

for some of the massive amount of work

that takes place in the private sector housing team.

We've had some success acquiring temporary accommodation

I'm sure you will be well aware of the financial pressures

that have been created, not just for us,

but a general problem across the country

with nightly nets.

Yeah, and I think other than that,

great work in the assets team,

really great compliance has been discussed before,

and an absolute turnaround since the stock came back in,

the landlord service came back in house.

Great work being done on the energy efficiency improvements

across the stock.

Yeah, I think those are probably the highlights,

but very happy to take any questions

and I may call upon officers for any details

I can tell that I am not able to answer.

Thank you for that.

Anita?

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:30:12

Thank you firstly for a really thorough

and excellent report.

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:30:18

Some really impressive things going on in your portfolio.

So some really great work.

I liked the link that you provided to the newsletter.

I wondered whether that was just sent out virtually,

and whether they get a physical copy.

We have more things to say.

It is a hard copy.

It goes out twice a year.

Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 1:30:43

And then I think there is bulletins.

It tends to get a hard copy of something quarterly.

That is great.

When things are in tact digitally,

a lot of people miss them.

That is fantastic news.

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:30:57

Really exciting to see how many new homes

that we've been acquiring.

So well done to the team there, really impressive.

And also the energy efficiency.

Again, really impressive the work with the solar panels.

So that must be making a massive difference to costs.

I don't know if you have much data

about how that's affecting people yet,

or whether it's too early to say.

But no, really, really good there.

I don't know, can you say anything else about that at all?

Thank you, yeah, no, I think we are seeing

Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 1:31:36

people's bills coming down, and the general sort of feel,

the comfort levels sort of going up,

but I don't know if Andy wants to add anything to that.

I think we do have some data available

Microphone thirty-seven - 1:31:47

from the social housing decar programme,

because I think that was one of the reporting requirements,

and we do track those homes for a period of time.

I mean, I don't have anything to hand,

but it is something we can look at with the team.

But I mean, we've improved over the energy efficiency,

probably over 500 homes now in the last couple of years.

Been big capital investment from our own funds,

as well as government funding, which we've used.

But when you look at the solar programme now,

we've kind of moved away from the government -funded programmes,

because they're very admin -intensive,

and you end up spending a lot of time and money on that,

and not necessarily delivering the best outcomes

for tenants of the amount of funding

that actually goes on just servicing those contracts

and things like that, we're finding we can actually

deliver more for our tenants in -house using our own funding,

depending upon what funding source is available.

But we've got a great team.

Everyone's bought into it,

and they don't work in isolation.

It works across, so you've got all your assets team

working with your housing people, identifying people in the first place, identifying the

homes, putting the measures in place, but also linking all the capital programmes, so

you win those programmes, your doors programmes, to do that whole sort of visit as few times

as you can to get the most improvements in a home at a time and link all those programmes

to get the best value and the most efficient way of doing it.

Now I think it's brilliant. I was just going to say, are you looking at installing car

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:33:20

charges at the same time for some of the properties because obviously I love the

idea of people driving on sunshine and so and again that makes people's lives

better and you know it gives them more opportunities I don't know if that's

part of the thing that you would be doing. It's not at the moment but it is

something we have started talking about something we will be considering and

Microphone thirty-seven - 1:33:39

it's just obviously we've got bigger things to do with sort of net zero

targets EPCC and we have a whole host of priorities in the HRA and it's quite a

So it's there, obviously we've been focusing on district car parks.

We're now working on a wider programme with on -street charging with KCC and some of the

first on -street chargers in Kent will roll out across Folkestone.

We're finalising that programme now and how that looks like.

So after that's done, they will provide charging opportunities for our tenants, not necessarily

at their own houses, but it's something we are going to have to look at at some point,

which will be a policy to allow residents

to have their charges and points installed.

But there's lots of things to consider

if they don't have off -road parking,

which most of the properties don't.

There's all sorts of complications

of it coming across curbs and pathways

owned by another authority and things like that.

So it's something we're talking about,

but it's not straightforward.

I'll just add that a lot of the,

Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 1:34:42

if not all of the new builds do have charges

as part of the planning process.

So those new homes, do you have those?

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:34:55

Thank you very much for an excellent report.

Cllr John Wing - 1:34:59

Thank you, and I'd like to thank your team

for achieving their award.

You put this one of the top councils,

not only county, in the country.

That's fantastic.

I'm really excited to read about your new homes

coming through.

This is due to S106 money.

Nobody likes seahouses.

We get a lot of complaints,

but this is how that money can be used for the benefit.

And 26 new homes in high, which is many, many years

since we saw new homes, that's fantastic.

It's my ward as well, so I particularly like it.

My concern is, as always, is TA temporary accommodation.

We're fighting to get that number down, aren't we?

We are struggling because it's been helped,

we are bursting, but that's maybe even worse.

But yeah, I am concerned about the amount of our residents

and community in temporary accommodation.

We would love to see them moved up,

but where do we move them to?

And this is always the problem, isn't it?

I understand how much you and your team are doing

to try to alleviate the problem,

but it is a problem.

Families in this accommodation,

wherever you would love to see them,

in houses one day, perhaps.

We dream, we dream.

Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 1:36:09

I think the events at the weekend sort of, you know,

to demonstrate how we have really little to no control

over temporary accommodation.

Obviously that was a very extreme event,

but things happen in people's lives.

And the list of reasons why people need temporary

accommodation are so varied.

But we have made that decision.

Council agreed to that five million pound investment in temporary accommodation.

And we have made a start on that.

So that is, yeah, it is a real priority because, yeah,

it does make such an impact on the general fund.

So yeah, doing what we can.

Yeah, thank you, Chair.

Yeah, excellent report.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:37:09

Thank you very much.

And again, good to read in the report

Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:37:13

that we've got some homes coming online in New Romney in 2027,

which is really good news for local residents.

Can you tell us a little bit more about the successes

of the resident liaison officer with regard to mayors?

You know, how have residents taken to that,

the person in that role?

how do they communicate with him,

and how's it going?

Because I know I've had a number of complaints

over the years about the quality of work

from me is from time to time.

So it's good to see that the residents

have actually got somebody as a point of contact

that they can take things back to straight away.

Thank you very much.

I don't know if anyone's had a chance

Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 1:38:00

to go on the state inspections this year

I think last year as well, the resident liaison officer attends pretty much all of those.

So, he'll have had a chance to meet him.

It's not a sort of a point of contact for everybody.

He's brought in when there's particular issues, vulnerabilities,

all of the work is particularly complex.

But I think if you have been on one of the inspections,

you will see, he knows exactly what's going on

with the repairs and the programme works.

And I think it has made a real difference

having him there to be able to go in and assure,

it's communication and it's a point of reassurance

as a person that can go in and sort of explain

what's going to happen, what needs to happen.

And I would also say that the neighbourhood officers

are also really important in that kind of thing as well.

Just giving people reassurance about why the works

are important and what can be done that people

will try to make it as quick and easy as possible,

but explain when things are going to take a long time

or just keeping people, trying to give that bit

of reassurance about what's going on.

But yeah, I think he has, he's also at the,

goes to the independent living forums,

which are quarterly, and you can see the really good

interaction there as well with the people in those schemes.

And I think it's really clear to me that he's providing

a great addition there.

Thank you very much.

Okay, any further questions?

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:40:04

Yes, Laura.

Thanks for the report.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:40:08

I'm sure

residents walking around the

district will sometimes see

empty properties,

or homes that might have stood empty

for quite a long time, or

properties that have been auctioned, for example.

Can you say a little bit

about where things are at in terms of bringing

empty homes back.

And if a resident identifies somewhere and is wondering,

could this be brought back into use?

What can they actually do?

And what is our kind of programme around that?

My other question is, is there any update on Ship Street

that you can share with us?

And I'm wondering if there's any plans

for any social housing in Broadmead Ward in Folkestone?

Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 1:41:06

So, there's the no use empty scheme,

which I believe you can report on there,

if you see a property that's empty

and you think should be highlighted.

So that is something that is available for anyone,

you know, you can feed into that.

I don't know, Adrian, if you want to say anything

about the current works, anything that's going on

on the no use empty side?

No, you're obviously right.

Mr Adrian Hammond - 1:41:39

We have the no use empty programme in place

and that is working in partnership with Kent County Council.

We have an annual target to bring 50 long -term empty homes

back into use each year.

We certainly achieved that target, exceeded that target

last year from my memory. We're continuing to do that again. We work with private owners

to offer interest -free loans where long -term empty homes are problematic in the sense that

from a viability point of view that they wouldn't be brought back into use and that additional

grant funding helps to make that happen. So that programme is ongoing and we're looking

to bring as many back into use as we can. Last year, officers from the private sector

housing team took enforcement action against a long -term empty property. Why was it empty?

I don't know. It's a completely bizarre situation, but we managed to force a sale so that that

property could be brought back into use. I understand that the purchases on site, getting

that ready, property ready for occupation again.

So we do that, we do respond actively where we can

and use our powers to try and bring some of those eyesores

back into use to minimise the impacts on residents

and make use of a wasted resource.

Just to clarify that, the one that you're talking about

there where the enforcement action took place,

was that through the no use empty scheme?

No, that was still our own direct action ourselves.

I'm not sure that it was the actual property owner,

the subsequent owner used an OUSMV skim, I don't know.

But we initially took enforcement action

to force the sale so that the property

was then sold through auction

and picked up by a new owner, developer,

and brought back into use.

So how did it come across our radar?

It was reported by residents.

Right. Yeah.

And who should residents report those to then, if that?

They can report them to the private sector housing team and they will respond,

obviously investigate, look at the circumstances that property is vacant.

And quite often there is no reason, there's no logical reason for a property to be vacant.

Obviously a lot of properties there, there's churn within the housing market

and property sit empty whilst the property is going through probate or something like that.

And eventually it does, the situation get resolved.

But there are some that sit empty for no reason

and there can be impacts on neighbouring properties.

I know of at least two or three properties

that officers are looking at actively at the moment

and exploring options of how we can get that property

preferably sold on so there is someone actively

that can take that property on and get it back into use.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:44:39

Right, George, what's that, Rebecca?

Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 1:44:43

Yeah, just going back to, I don't think we have anything currently in broad need, but

Andy can...

A couple of things.

I'll pick up the Ship Street point first.

Microphone thirty-seven - 1:44:51

I mean, Ship Street is largely as it was in the report approved by Cabinet in July, which

was to revise the planning strategy.

That work has commenced.

Obviously, we've had the summer holidays in the way of that.

That was only at the end of July.

That work has commenced with our consultants and we're expecting the revised planning application

to all be submitted by the end of November.

And in the background, we're still working on what that finally looks

like with our development partner and moving forward with that viability and working

with other agencies as well in order to bring that forward.

I can't say too much more because obviously a lot of it is commercially sensitive at the moment.

with regards to broad meet, I can't say too much about that either because that's commercially sensitive

but there is something quite exciting that we might have submitted an offer for recently

and if it comes to fruition I will divulge more information in due course.

Okay, but we're looking at lots of opportunities all the time.

Some of which, most of which don't come to fruition.

We put offers in and things, we look at stuff with other developers, stuff comes across

of we pick up section 106 opportunities, we put offers in on section 106 opportunities,

and if it matches our financial metrics, then we explore it further, and then we go through,

we might have an offer accepted, then we have to go through our internal governance processes,

and things like that.

So there's loads and loads of moving parts to it, and loads of stuff that we're doing

all the time.

So, as you can see from the numbers we are delivering, we have been pretty successful

in the last couple of years, and we've got some quite exciting things in the pipeline

if they come off.

All right, thank you for that.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:46:36

I've expanded Rebecca.

Paul.

Thank you.

Actually, Councillor Davidson prompted me then,

we're talking about empty properties

and derelict properties.

Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:46:47

In our own advice, we talk about enforcement action

can be taken to ensure long -term empty properties

and derelict ones can be brought back into use.

When you're dealing with landlords, property owners

who won't comply, won't engage with us,

and I'm sure you know which properties

I'm talking about on Little Stone's seafront.

Then at what point do we take the kind of action

which secures the position for their neighbours

whose properties are being degraded all the time

these derelict properties are allowed to degrade?

And we're talking about properties

that have been derelict for years and years.

They attract vermin, and they have

and the real negative impact on their neighbours.

So, you know, when does real action take place

in terms of taking the property over, whatever we can do?

So what can we do to help those poor people

who are living next door to these things

that we seem to be powerless to do anything about

because the owners won't engage with us?

Thank you.

Okay.

Mr Adrian Hammond - 1:47:57

So I can't give a one size fits all

on every single property, but it will be determined by the facts of the case, you know, are there

debts outstanding to the council, what impact is it having on the local community, are there

other steps that we can get to improve the property. From time to time we secure properties

if we know that people are going into properties and that could present a risk to neighbouring

properties and to the local neighbourhood. It's very difficult, I can't give a definitive

on that, it would depend on all the circumstances

around that property.

But what I have to say is it is one of the most frustrating

areas of work for the team when we see properties

sitting empty.

Sometimes we take action, owners respond

and address a particular issue.

We then almost take one step back again.

But we will actively pursue these properties.

Kerry and her team are doing that on an ongoing basis.

There were some properties that are more difficult

to tackle than others.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:49:02

Right, are we finished with it, Becca?

Cllr John Wing - 1:49:08

Yes, while we're talking about properties, there's a certain pub in your ward, and actually

there was somebody working in there today.

It went past and the door was open.

But that's something the council can do, and it's been a long, long storey, but the council

have enforced.

There was pigeons living in there.

It was horrendous at one point.

It is still not brilliant but it looks a hell of a lot better than it did.

The roof was falling down, wasn't it?

And I know the KCC were very concerned about it actually falling down,

but now it's a lot better and I know it still won't go in.

But there were people actually working there today,

which you'd be very pleased to hear.

Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 1:49:46

Good to hear and we will wait for it to be finished.

Are we finished? Any more questions? No?

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:49:52

We can let Rebecca go. Thank you very much.

Excellent report, thank you.

7 Overview & Scrutiny Work Programme Tracker

Moving on.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:50:00

Overview and scrutiny work programme tracker.

Have you had a chance to look at this?

I'm a little bit disappointed with self in one way

that certain things are not being accelerated,

that the water quality, which one I know Paul

would be interested in.

Yeah, that's okay.

And it was actually went into council on the 1st of April,

April Fools Day.

And it as a matter of urgency was in the wording

and it hasn't happened yet.

I have raised this with you and Green,

one or two other things as well.

And basically we need to accelerate this back

into this committee.

Okay.

Having said that, that was you Paul.

Yeah, thank you, Chair.

I was going to raise that very point about,

Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:50:59

when can we expect to see a report to this committee?

There's two other items on there,

which I think we need some more feedback on.

The first of those was the improving street lighting,

which we took in in July.

My own personal view is that 10 County Council

that fobbed us off with the data in that report.

And I think we are due something

to address the comments that we made about that.

So again, anything we can do to bring that back here

so we can address the issues that were raised

would be really good.

And secondly was the introduction of the 20 minutes

free parking to support town centre revitalization,

which we took in May.

So the update there is when setting fees

for the next financial year, consideration will be given

to the issues raised by the committee.

I think that's too weak, personally.

Because we asked for data to come back to us on that

about utilisation so that when we do get the information

given to us with regard to the fees

and the terms and conditions associated with car parking.

And I'm thinking specifically about car parks,

coastal car parks for example, you know,

this extra two hours.

You know, we asked for data to say,

what benefit has there been to the council

for introducing those two hours?

You know, we've had a year to have a look at that.

So again, I think we're owed something more than just,

we'll have a look at it when the fees

are due to be set this year.

I just think that that's not what we asked for.

We asked for data.

I see no reason why we can't have that data now.

Thank you.

Thank you for that, Paul.

I totally agree with you, of course,

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:52:57

but we'll have to see what miracles we can work

and get this information in.

I'm sure Jake will be looking at the calendar

and adjusting those things.

Yeah, a couple of points.

Cllr John Wing - 1:53:11

Looking back, we are still looking at the discussion about the Hyve pool and they said

it would come back to this committee deciding.

We are looking forward to the future, which we all like to do.

On 2nd February, next year, we have got coastal resilience and growing extreme weather climate

change.

Could we also have the Hyve canal put in there?

I'm very concerned about flooding and I know the environment agency is also concerned.

So perhaps we can caveat also Hive canal and flooding of that.

An interesting on the same meeting, we've got empty homes,

I thought I might mention that, that should be an interesting meeting.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:53:59

Right, Laura you go first.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:54:04

Yeah, I'm very sorry that I missed the discussion on improved street lighting,

because it sounds like it was a robust discussion

and a lot of points were covered.

So I just was reading the minutes

and what it says in terms of the update.

Was it agreed for something to come back to this committee

then with addressing,

because I think the points are excellent

and really well captured in the minutes

and it would be really good to make sure

that they are followed up.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:54:33

We actually sought out the work programme for next year.

I think a lot of these things should come back in.

What depth they come back in, how much detail,

but we need to keep tabs on these things.

They just can't just be drifting away into the ether.

So I would agree with you,

so this could make sure we get into the work programme

on a regular basis.

Sorry, Andy.

I was gonna say with things like that,

Microphone thirty-seven - 1:54:57

we should be able to, officers should be able

to provide written updates which can be circulated

to the committee by way of an update.

So we can do that rather than bringing things back

because obviously you'll have a load of things

that you want to assess over and scrutinise over the next year.

You don't want to necessarily take those up with things you've already scrutinised.

But if we can update members by written updates, if that's sufficient,

then that's probably the best way to do it, particularly on things like that, I would have said.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:55:20

Yeah, this is a very important aspect, what Dan is suggesting,

because we'll have a congestion otherwise on our committee structure.

But if we get written updates on a regular basis,

at least we know what is going in what direction, what's the problems or whatever.

And then we can just, if we want to in the future,

bring it back in again.

But I think the written updates

would be really helpful, Andy, thank you.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:55:47

Yeah, thank you, Tony.

I had two points.

Cllr Alan Martin - 1:55:52

One was, so we got a standing item

relating to the solar farms on the marsh.

And at the last council meeting,

we had our motion relating to that.

So I guess similar to the water quality, I'm just keen to get an update on,

I'm trying to remember off the top of my head what the substantive actions were.

I think there was a desire for a letter to be written regarding our concerns around cumulative impact and etcetera, etcetera.

But I think there were also some asks on the planning department in terms of them ensuring that they look at

cumulative impact, feed that back when dealing with the,

so our concern of course being about the cumulative impact

of all of the developments, but the developments

are gonna be put in front of the planning team separately.

And I guess it would be good to get a response

from the planning team and possibly officers

just on that motion and for us to be able to track.

I assume that letter hasn't gone for instance,

but I think most of us were more keen on ensuring that we were all aligned with the planning

department and responding to the developments in the appropriate way, but I've not heard

anything since that meeting.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:57:23

No, nor have I, but the case of South Brookes is the one that's been going so far ahead,

and we responded to that properly as a consortee.

Now I think until the inspector is appointed

by the government,

and then we'll be having to give evidence.

And that would be interesting point,

what evidence this council will give

and what evidence will give individual organisations.

But there's a rest as far as I know,

haven't proceeded yet.

So on that basis, we can't be committed to the happens.

So we've got a view, of course,

but I think we can do more work on South Brookes.

Evie, you okay?

Looking like you want to say something?

You're welcome.

Are you okay with that?

Cllr Alan Martin - 1:58:08

Yeah, I guess, so there's a motion that went through

and it was asking for a set of things

and I've not heard anything back,

I guess is my high level point,

so it'd be good to get an update

on how the council is taking forward the outcome

from that motion if you can.

James noted that, so we'll try and get you an update.

Lovely, thank you.

And then the second,

or what was the second point?

I might have to stand down and have a think

about what my second point was.

I'll come back in a second.

Laura.

I'll make a comment in between,

which is just that it's really helpful

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:58:44

to have this tracker in the papers

and to have the updates in the column.

I don't know if the plan is for it to be a standing thing.

Yeah, well, that's great.

I think it's really, really helpful.

Thank you.

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:58:58

I found myself again.

Cllr Alan Martin - 1:59:04

So I think it was the last overview and scrutiny meeting.

We were talking to Councillor Polly Blakemore

around the Joint Transportation Board meetings,

which have collapsed somewhat.

So we were having this discussion having had a non -corrupt meeting that was postponed literally

with the rest of us on the call, largely because KCC members didn't show up.

And that's just happened for a second time.

So we've now had six months of joint transportation meetings cancelled.

So I don't know whether that's appropriate to raise here,

but it's a concern to me.

Yeah, it's a fair point.

But Jake, I might want to ask a question

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:59:59

about what's happening about that.

But it's not much we can do about KCC members.

They say they're bored in that context.

And I used to share it, KCC was fine,

But now it's kind of they don't want to play and it's vital these things that aired locally

I know you're very concerned about your area

And and so we'll try and find out if from move poly everything what's happening

Sorry Andy

I'm aware that also and

Microphone thirty-seven - 2:00:38

Let me leave it with me and conversation with a few people and see if I can get that raised

high level in KCC perhaps to the joint chief execs

or something and see if anyone else

has experienced the same issues

because I am aware that the last one was cancelled too

because I approve all the packs.

So I have the pleasure of reading them before they go.

And then they're cancelled.

So I will follow it up and see what's going on.

I don't know how long that'll take

but between me and Jake we'll sort it out.

Councillor Tony Hills - 2:01:01

I was just gonna add to that.

Mr Jake Hamilton - 2:01:03

We have phrased it with KCC's monitoring officer

because obviously it is the third time actually

that it's been cancelled this year,

because we rescheduled the July meeting to August.

But yeah, it has been raised

with the monitoring officer at KCC.

And so thank you.

So if we can continue that escalation,

Cllr Alan Martin - 2:01:25

I guess my secondary question is,

if KCC won't play ball,

certainly I find those meetings really helpful

as an opportunity for us to get in front of the KCC team

the officers who do always turn up for the meetings and I wonder if if the

KCC members refuse to turn up can we not just hold our own meeting and invite the

KCC officers along I know this there's certain aspects of decision -making

whatever that would fall away but I still find that beneficial and my time

Councillor Tony Hills - 2:02:00

at KCC they were seriously considering cancelling the whole things because all

All of these boards around the county

were really fractious, really unpleasant, some of them,

except ours.

Ours was the only friendly one,

because we wanted results, got arguments.

So I think we might have to set up another variation of this

which is run by the districts.

I mean, obviously LGL is gonna sort this out,

but I don't see that's happening now.

So yeah, I don't think we'll get much support.

We might, I mean, it's great,

and it's gonna take it up with the officers there.

We get more sense out of them, but we don't get much support from the members, in my view.

Laura, yes.

Councillor Tony Hills - 2:02:45

Cllr Laura Davison - 2:02:45

I know this isn't on the agenda, we just got into a subject and we are not all on that

body, but I think if there are structures in place and people should be attending them

in their representative jobs, then that is the issue that should be addressed.

And I'm glad the monitoring officer,

it's been raised with the monitoring officer.

I don't think we should try and make that okay

by some other route.

There's a proper system,

should be a proper system there.

And if people aren't attending,

then we need to think about that and dealing with that.

And maybe there needs to be a change in who should attend.

Well, you're on the right track, of course you are,

Councillor Tony Hills - 2:03:26

but it's the only meeting at context

that parish councils can get involved with.

So I think it's very important that parishes are involved.

Absolutely.

Cllr Laura Davison - 2:03:35

Yeah, I totally agree.

I meant the representatives.

Councillor Tony Hills - 2:03:39

Sorry, Anita.

Yes, sorry, I think we'll all go jump on the bandwagon,

but actually it did cause chaos.

Cllr Anita Jones - 2:03:45

We had a lot of chaos in Saltwood and Hives,

with the shutting of Sandling Road,

and had there been a joint transport board

to discuss the busses and the routes,

it might have resolved itself,

but because it didn't happen,

the chaos continued throughout most of the summer so we really do need this to happen

not just for Saultwood and Hyde but for everywhere else for it to affect.

Councillor Tony Hills - 2:04:07

I think we're all agreed on something that needs to be done and I'll leave Andy's capable hands

for the moment to see what it can be done but we seem to have got an extra agenda item

on the meeting which is fine but no. Right on the tracker are we happy to

to receive, have a proposer, thank you Anita, a seconder, thank you Laura, and a show of

hands because it will keep Jake happy, okay, thank you.

Right then I think unless anybody's got burning things to say, the meeting will come close.

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Interactive webcast player

Overview and Scrutiny CommitteeTuesday, 22nd September 2026 at 6:00pm

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:00:03

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:01:01

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:06:18

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:06:38

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:06:47

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:07:03

Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:08:02

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:08:25

Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:10:28

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:10:41

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:11:00

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:11:04

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:11:27

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:12:54

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:12:58

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:13:25

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:14:31

Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:15:00

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:15:05

1 Apologies for Absence

2 Declarations of Interest

3 Minutes

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:15:17

4 Private Sector Enforcement Policy

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:15:40

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:28:50

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:29:05

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:30:42

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:32:42

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:32:50

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:34:07

Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:35:52

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:36:23

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:37:01

Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:37:06

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:37:10

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:37:16

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:39:23

Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:39:32

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:40:04

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:40:09

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:41:58

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:43:58

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:44:03

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:44:16

Cllr John Wing - 0:44:20

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:44:33

Cllr John Wing - 0:44:52

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:45:03

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:45:04

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:45:14

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:45:51

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:46:40

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:46:56

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:47:38

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:49:26

5 Housing Allocations Policy

Mr Adrian Hammond - 0:50:33

Cllr Bridget Chapman - 1:00:31

Mr Adrian Hammond - 1:00:43

Cllr Bridget Chapman - 1:01:50

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:01:55

Cllr Bridget Chapman - 1:02:00

Mr Adrian Hammond - 1:02:05

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:02:16

Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:02:24

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:05:05

Mr Adrian Hammond - 1:05:11

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:06:18

Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:06:23

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:07:09

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:07:32

Cllr Alan Martin - 1:07:38

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:09:39

Cllr Alan Martin - 1:10:12

Councillor Tony Hills - 1:10:39

Mr Adrian Hammond - 1:10:47

Cllr John Wing - 1:13:12

Overview and Scrutiny Committee
Tuesday, 22nd September 2026 at 6:00pm