Good evening everyone and welcome to the meeting of the Cabinet.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:00:08
This meeting will be webcast live to the internet. For those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed, you will need to leave the chamber.
For members, officers and others speaking at the meeting, it is important that the microphones
are used so viewers on the webcast and others in the room may hear you.
Would anyone with a mobile phone please switch it to silent mode as they can be distracting.
I would like to remind members that although we all have strong opinions on the matters under consideration,
it is important to treat members, officers and public speakers with respect.
1 Apologies for Absence
So good evening everyone and welcome. We'll kick off with apologies for absence. Gemma.
There are no apologies this evening.
2 Declarations of Interest
Ms Jemma West - 0:00:56
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:00:58
So can we go to declarations of interest? Do any members wish to make a declaration of interest?
I'm not seeing any waving hands, so I'll assume there are no declarations of interest.
3 Minutes
Item three is the minutes to consider and approve as a correct record the minutes of
meeting held on the 2nd of December 2026. Can I have a proposer?
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:01:29
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:01:31
Happy to propose, leader. I'm very happy to second. All those in favour, please indicate. Thank you very much. That's great. Terrific. So we'll go straight to our
4 Oportunitas Ltd Provisional Outturn 2025/26 and Q1 Financial update 2026/27
first substantive item, which is number four on the agenda. Opportunitas Limited, provisional
out term 25 -26 and quarter one financial update. And Councillor Holgate is going to lead us
through this, I think. Welcome.
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:02:03
Thanks so much, Chair. Good evening, Councillors. So this is the regular financial update from the Opportunities House Board. It covers two things, the provisional out term for last
year, which is still subject to audit, and our first quarter position for this year,
Cabinet is asked to note both. On 25 -26 the company made a pre -tax profit of £98 ,000.
The business plan forecast of £9 ,700, so that's about £88 ,000 better than the plan.
To be clear about where that came from, the largest part, around £53 ,000, was lower interest
on the loan from the council. Around £42 ,000 came from works that were deferred or delivered
more cheaply and that includes the external redecoration of Castle Hill Avenue which was
moved into this year. So part of the improvement is timing rather than structural and that
accumulated loss has fallen from $254 ,000 to about $156 ,000. The portfolio is 75 homes
with one vacant commercial unit. I think it's Andy's favourite unit. Mostly in focusing with
in Dover. It's valued at 14 .3 million with a yield of 5 .7%. That valuation rose by 733 ,000.
Why such a jump? Well, the short version is the company changed the valuers from Silby
Parson to Wilkes Head and Eve, so I have lots of names there, who also value the council's
own assets. Essentially, different methodologies in asset valuing explain most of the movement.
Finance officers challenge the figure and the valuers have stood by it and the
auditors aren't expected to take issue. Meanwhile demand for the portfolio
remains strong, occupancy is high and voids are low and much that's down to
the excellent work for officers managing tenants and issues. For this year the Q1
projection is a pre -tax profit of 41 ,000 against a plan of 47 ,700, so that's about
six and a half K gap, driven by higher repairs and maintenance costs and partly
offset by savings on professional fees. It is early in the year and repair costs are
hard to predict, so we'll watch it closely. We've reallocated the major repairs provision
to the priority works identified in the stock condition survey, about 127 ,000 this year.
Cash is healthy at around 159k at year end and projected at around 138k next March, so
there are no liquidity concerns. Loan repayments to the council are on track. The pause on
the local government reorganisation has no expected impact on the business plan, and
myself and the office are happy to take questions. Thank you.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:04:39
Thank you very much. Questions? Councillor Spinks. Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:04:43
Thank you. I was just picking up on the $733 ,000 uplift, which I appreciate. I'm just curious on that because this is a background I assume of property markets being a bit flat if not
declining and it's going up the valuation has then gone up so on to the 3 ,000. I appreciate
that was you know new valuers and they were different value different methodologies it
was challenged and I guess it is as it is I'm just curious to know what sort of method
methodological differences there might have been what was the mechanism it seems quite
substantial.
Thank you, Councillor Speakerman. So in terms of methodologies, there are a number of ways
of valuing. These are all sort of accounting methods. It doesn't necessarily follow sort
of market price or that's basically the price you pay on the open market, particularly as
these assets are held as investment assets. So it can be based on things, for example,
based on the rentable yield of the property, and there'll be methodologies that each different
value we'll use to come up with a market valuation which is based effectively on
the sort of the investment nature of the of the asset. So it's a bit more
complicated, doesn't necessarily use purely the the open market price. One
thing to bear in mind is of the 733 ,000 pounds increase, 600 ,000 of that were
actually related to two specific blocks which were the new build blocks at
So it's, and obviously new build properties are generally harder
to value compared to some older properties.
I think that's where the increase has largely come from.
And it may just be down to an overly conservative estimate
Jonathan Smith - 0:06:29
by the previous values. But we did challenge this
and the values were very comfortable with evaluation.
I'm comfortable with having looked at this
and I think the auditors have in fact just asked me a question
saying are we comfortable.
I don't think they're going
to raise any specific challenges to it.
So I think the evaluation is as is.
Thank you for a very comprehensive answer.
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:06:50
I've got one other question. Please do.
Right, so on I think 27,
was it 27?
Yeah, you're talking about the stock condition survey.
You actually mentioned a figure of 41 ,000,
that's the provision for 26, 27.
But just before that, you were talking about
an estimated 127 ,000 of works to be carried out in 26 -27.
So you've got a provision of 21 ,100 in 26 -27.
I mean, maybe I'm reading that wrong.
I appreciate it.
I think in the appendix, it does talk about a budget alteration to 128 ,000, doesn't it?
But, yeah, I don't know if you could just clarify.
I'm possibly misreading that progress.
Jonathan, please.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:07:40
Thank you. Thank you. And thank you again, Council Speaker.
Jonathan Smith - 0:07:42
So in terms of the major repairs provision, so each year we're setting aside a provisional amount
and it's roughly sort of that, that's 41K.
It's done I think on a percentage basis,
but when we set the business plan,
what we've done is we've effectively rolled forward
a provision that would have been placed last year
into this year and basically created a bigger budget
specifically for this year,
which it uses up the major repairs provision
and then creates a sort of a bigger amount.
We don't expect that big amount to roll forward necessarily
and it would be based on anything that comes out
of stock condition surveys like the one
we've obviously carried out.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:08:26
Oh, sorry, can't see much. Thank you, that was a really helpful summary
Cllr James Butcher - 0:08:32
at the beginning to help us understand what's going on. I just had a question about the yield,
of the 5 .7 % yield and how does that compare with similar portfolios?
Is that what you'd expect from this kind of investment portfolio?
When you kind of Google that figure, it suggests it might be the lower end,
but just be good to hear what your take is on how our portfolio is performing
in relation to comparable portfolios.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:09:00
Jonathan or someone else? Jonathan Smith - 0:09:10
Thank you, Lisa. Thank you, Councillor Butcher. So it's not something that we're unnecessarily looked into. We can always look at some comparisons that we might find, but it seems like a reasonable
return that we obviously the council is making at the moment. But it's something we can certainly
look into and provide some sort of background stats on if that's helpful for members.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:09:30
I can add something. Oh, sorry Andy, go on. All I was going to add is typically in property company accounts, it's a balancing act between capital value and yield. The investment is
made not necessarily for the yield. It depends on the type of property. But certainly residential,
which would be long term, the yield would be lower,
because you would expect it to be very safe
and provide a capital return in the long term.
If you were looking at a shorter term,
property investment, I don't know,
a chain of shops or a, you know,
you would expect a higher yield, but less capital growth.
So, you know.
Andy, sorry, God.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:10:19
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:10:22
Thank you, no that's very helpful. The company's always had a target yield of between sort of five and a half and six percent. So 5 .7 sits firmly in the middle of that, which is showing sort of a sustainable margin for long -term growth as the leader has referred to.
I think that's always been sort of the benchmark for the portfolio, so I'm comfortable with that in this market.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:10:47
Any other questions or queries? Councillor Holmgate.
I don't know, Chair, I ask Andy something just at the back of our meeting that we did
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:10:55
have around the commercial unit. I wonder whether there's value in updating the councillors around the challenges that
exist.
Or maybe Gavin, I think we spoke to the landlord, do we do that?
I'm not sure.
We just have the challenging commercial unit, I think, that is still vacant.
Is there value in talking to that just to share an update?
I can give a very quick update, of course.
So we've got a commercial unit on Grace Hill,
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:11:17
which was subject to some extensive flooding damage from the flats above.
We had a long dispute with the insurance company.
Ultimately, that did not result in them
paying for any repairs.
So we have the dilemma now of do we repair it as it is
for a commercial unit, but we've been told by our advisors
that there isn't a market for that type of commercial unit
at the moment to convert it into residential is very expensive because of the way the building
is situated the only natural light essentially comes from the front window there is a light
well in the middle but it's a very deep building and it would be quite expensive to open it up to
utilise that light well so i don't think we can do anything probably for shy of probably 30 000
So even a rental yield on a flat one or two bed around £750 a month, so you've got to
look at your cost benefit analysis, your payback period.
It's very challenging, but we are working through that at the moment, and I think we'll
likely build something into the business plan for next year on that.
So we'll bring further information back into your course.
Thank you.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:12:28
Any further questions or queries? No?
Good.
Could we have a proposer for the report?
Councillor Butcher and Councillor Blakemore to second.
All those in favour, please indicate.
Thank you very much everyone.
Thank you.
Thank you Councillor Holgate.
Yep, terrific.
Don't want to delay you any more than you need.
5 Housing Allocations Policy Update
Moving on to item five, housing allocations policy update.
and Councillor Shrew will be leading us through this.
Thank you.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:13:02
So the revised policy has been drafted in line with best practise and government guidance. And note that this policy has not been updated since 2017,
so it has been an opportunity for a very thorough update.
It is a very comprehensive and detailed policy,
And although in practise there are not huge changes
from how the current allocations policy works,
this update provides much more clarity and transparency
as to how allocations are made.
In particular, how applicants are prioritised based
on their particular needs and circumstances.
And this should be a significant benefit for both applicants
and officers and hopefully should reduce the number
of Housing Register inquiries and appeals.
So section two of the report details the key changes
to the policy.
One of the significant changes
to the policy is allowing applicants
with some housing debt to join the register.
And again, this is in line with best practise and in line
with the focus on homelessness prevention.
This change was one of the points raised by overview
and the overview and scrutiny committee.
And a summary of all the points that they raised
is detailed at section three of the report.
So previously applicants were not eligible
to join the register if they had any housing related debt.
So I think this is a significant improvement
in making the register more accessible
to more people in need.
And similarly, income thresholds have been increased
to take into account the cost of accessing
and alternative accommodation.
So it's important to note as well
that throughout the policy exceptional circumstances
will be considered on a case by case basis
wherever possible.
So if members approve the recommendations,
the policy will go out for public consultation
with any minor amendments to be approved
by the director of housing and operations
in consultation with myself.
And finally, I just want to note,
I think it's a really useful resource for members as well as it very clearly sets out
both the policy and the
processes and procedures such as how bidding on properties works and other practical issues that we often have
raised as questions to us as councillors.
So I'd like to move the recommendations and hope you can support them.
Thank you very much Councillor Shabaugh.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:15:41
So I'm very happy to second the recommendations and open it up for questions or queries.
Councillor Blakemore.
Not really a question, but I just want to echo
what Councillor Shoop said.
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:15:53
I found it really interesting read and very useful. I think it will definitely be a very useful resource.
Provides a lot of clarity.
Also pleased to see that flexibility
around exceptional circumstances as well.
So thank you.
And thank you to the team who put it together.
Any other questions?
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:16:11
Council Blaymore. Yeah, likewise, I found it really, really helpful
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:16:18
to understand the intricacies of how the housing register works.
I just wondered if it was possible to get,
maybe not in this forum, but it'd be quite helpful
to understand the kind of numbers we've got in each band
and whether this new revised strategy or policy
is likely to, whether that's going to affect
the numbers we've got in each band in any significant way.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:16:46
So it's not anticipated that there'd be massive change movement between bands,
as for people on the register as it stands.
I think as well, just to note, on the website,
If you look up the pages on the housing register,
there's a monthly overview of numbers on the register,
and that's broken down as well by bedroom need
and A to B banding, so it's quite comprehensive.
And I think it was discussed at overview and scrutiny,
and there might be some opportunity to sort of
summarise that, see the changes over periods,
because at the moment it's a snapshot of month by month.
But I don't know if Adrian wants to add anything to that.
No, thank you, Councillor Sheebe.
No, nothing major to add there.
Mr Adrian Hammond - 0:17:43
Certainly we don't anticipate major changes in the number of people in the different bands.
We certainly will monitor that going forward.
And also, the information on the website
also gives the waiting time, the average waiting times
for different property types as well,
because that's a query that we often get
from our applicants and our list.
So, yeah, we're trying to present as much information
as we can to applicants that they are fully aware
of all the wait times and the facts behind the waiting list.
Councillor Butcher and then Councillor Fuller.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:18:15
It was just picking up on the points that were raised Cllr James Butcher - 0:18:20
by overview and scrutiny in September and the bit about officers acknowledge the complexity
of the document, agree to consider what further
accessible information could be provided,
and I just wonder where that would go into.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:18:39
Adrian, can you offer some help? Mr Adrian Hammond - 0:18:41
That's still work in progress. That's something that we will look at
once the policy's agreed.
It is a balancing act between presenting
all of the information to applicants
and obviously presenting it in a fully accessible way.
But we certainly have a team of officers as well
that are able to work with applicants as well
and provide advice and assistance about the register
and also to help them apply to the register as well.
So that is something that we're gonna be looking at.
We'll be looking at it with our communications team as well
to see if there's a way of presenting this information
in a different, improved format potentially.
Mr Adrian Hammond - 0:19:28
Definitely, that's certainly something that we would want to look at. But there is that balance between losing vital information, which can lead to queries and
concerns amongst applicants.
Councillor Fuller.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:19:42
Councillor Butcher beat me to it. He asked exactly what I was going to ask there.
It's fine, cheers.
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:19:49
Great minds, there we go. Okay, Councillor McConville.
Thanks.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:19:53
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:19:55
Just with the income thresholds, I couldn't see anything in there.
Are they, is there some sort of thing linking them
to just natural increases,
or will they stay fixed until the policy is revised again?
We do keep those figures under review.
Mr Adrian Hammond - 0:20:12
We'll be looking to review them annually that we take account of all changes in rents
and incomes in the district.
Very good.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:20:25
Any more questions or queries that we have? No, super.
So we have a proposer in Councillor Shrew,
but I was very happy to second.
All those in favour, please indicate.
Thank you very much.
6 HNES Capital Bid - Bradfoord Court Heating Upgrade
Item six, HNES Capital Bid.
Bradford Court Heating Upgrade.
Councillor Shroob.
Thank you.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:20:51
So this report outlines the recommendations for and the benefits of upgrading the communal heating system
at Bradford Court.
And that's one of our independent living schemes
in Folkestone.
It's got 48 flats and has been identified
as a very high energy and high carbon emitter
due to both the age of the system
and it's all good, so you've got a lack of individual
programmable controls for residents there.
So members will, I hope, be aware that we've got
a long -term plan to upgrade all of the communal
heating systems within our independent living schemes.
So currently at Bradford Court,
residents are paying a fixed charge
towards their energy usage,
but this doesn't fully cover the actual cost,
So it's currently being subsidised by the HRA.
So similar works have been successfully completed
at Windpine House already.
And this is undoubtedly a major project.
And we're of course very conscious of the need
for works to be carefully managed and communicated
so as to minimise any inevitable disruption
and inconvenience to residents.
So we're being asked to receive and note the report,
confirm the acceptance of the H &E's capital grant funding
and to note a budget allocation of 500 ,000 pounds
in the HRE budget for the current year
for project costs and match funding.
As detailed in the report, not all of the project costs
were in fact eligible for grant funding,
but their significant and important works
such as redoing pipe work and radiators in individual flats.
and it makes sense to get it all done at the same time as the main system.
So I'd like to move the recommendations and hope you can support them. Thank you.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:22:52
Thank you very much, Councillor Shroob. I'm very happy to second any report that contains wiring diagrams.
So...
Councillor Spigman.
Sorry, thank you. Yes.
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:23:09
Yeah, Councillor Shroob actually touched on this. I mean, this is, I don't know much about Bradford Court, I'm afraid, but it's a sheltered housing scheme, is it, essentially?
I mean, it's got vulnerable tenants, doesn't it? I understand.
I mean, this is a great scheme. I mean, it's amazing.
And these, well, the heating interface units, that's a remarkable piece of technology, which I think is excellent, still using a central heating system.
The issue I was thinking was because of vulnerable residents, there's a lot of work here, isn't
there?
You've got pipework, you've got radiators, you've got metering, you've got the units
themselves.
I mean, are residents likely to be out without hot water and heating at some point?
Is this all going to happen around them?
Are they going to be moved?
I'm just not quite sure how that's going to be managed in a way that's probably going
to be quite disruptive for some people who are obviously quite vulnerable.
I just want to ask that question in a bit more detail.
Are we able to answer that one? Andy?
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:24:10
Yes, thank you, leader, Councillor Spigman. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:24:13
It will be slightly disruptive, there's no doubt about that. We have got a track record of doing this with Wind Pine House.
We've used good contractors.
We have, there will be a tenant engagement plan from the outset.
the winning tenderer, if you like, contractor,
will be selected on their approach
to how they minimise the risk to tenants,
among other things, and the disruption.
Most of the system can be installed
before the old system is decommissioned.
So this is important.
So you're looking at about three to five days
of work per flat in the flat,
whilst the tenant still has hot water and heating, and then potentially a day on switchover,
which will be programmed so we're not in the middle of winter. So obviously next year,
when it's warmer, there will be a tenant engagement officer working specifically with the tenants,
which will be part of the contractor team. And the programme will all be done around that.
So as I said, we've got that track record, but the benefits that this brings to two tenants,
the reduction in bills, the control and comfort that will be available to tenants afterwards,
the reduction in carbon and everything else, and it future proofs the system
for when the gas voiders need to be replaced,
and then we can swap them over for ground source or air source heat pumps at a later date,
and then that will work with all the other stuff that we're doing now.
Just one question, sorry.
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:25:52
In terms of the triple glazing, and, gather that was not feasible, Is that likely that could be retrofitted
or is that just a non -starter?
I don't actually know on that point.
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:26:04
But I don't know, I can come back to you on it. But I would think we generally shy away from triple glazing
because of the expense, whereas some of the double glaze units
now are almost giving you the same sort of value,
if you like, for heat retention.
So we've got to make sure we make the best use
of our funding, but I can find out.
Thank you.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:26:24
I saw Councillor Blackmo and then Councillor Fuller, sorry. Thank you.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:26:31
Yeah, one of my questions was about future proofing for renewables, so it's good to hear that from Andy.
I was also wondering, and you've talked about
double and triple glazing, but are there other plans
for, obviously this is a big, costly project,
so I don't expect it to be included at this stage,
but other improvements to the fabric of what is,
what sounds like it's quite an ageing building?
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:26:58
I don't believe there's any plans at the moment. I think the building as a whole is in good condition. This is a really important thing to do and one of the most significant things to do to improve the efficiency of the heating system and the benefits and the cost reduction and the benefits that that will bring to our tenants.
Because at the moment they don't have that individual control of the heating.
The interface units work by still taking heat from the central boiler, but the central boilers
are much lower temperature.
The hot, that warm water gets plugged to the flats where the tenant has control over that.
So the carbon reduction, the cost reduction of that and the control and comfort for the
tenant is better all round.
So that is where we are starting with the building.
Not aware of other plans at the moment, but there'll be other capital works planned in
over whatever time scale it is through the business plan to do with Bradford,
but I don't have that to hand, so it'll be part of a programme somewhere, but I'm not aware that
the other, if there's any other issues particularly with the building at the moment, because otherwise
certainly if they are more significant we'd be addressing those first.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:28:04
So, Councillor Fuller. Thank you, Chair. Yeah, I was quite surprised on the triple Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:28:09
glazing because it looked like it could have increased the the amount of carbon saved by I was trying to understand a bit more about the actual financial savings kind of things
because it mentions in the report that we're obviously subsidising it but it doesn't actually
explain how much we're subsidising it to.
So I can see that the metre saving for the flats is about five grand a year and so that
presumably is just people using less energy by choice as it were.
That's about a third of the overall tariff saving,
which is about 16 grand a year.
But without knowing how much we're subsidising,
we don't necessarily, or I don't know,
how much that's actually gonna affect the tenants
in terms of their outgoings.
Because whether we have to do it or not,
it'd be useful for them to know in advance
how they're gonna be affected financially as well.
So do we have an idea of the,
obviously we can't do it by flat,
but the sort of overall effect on tenants in terms of their outgoings or whether or
not this particular tariff saving wipes out the money that we've been spending as it were.
Any idea?
No.
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:29:23
I'm going to have to come back to you on that, Councillor Fuller. I must say I'm not involved in the detail of the project.
I'm covering for officers and I who couldn't be here who would have been able to provide
with the detail, but we can come back to you on that.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:29:37
So, I have got an extended question on the same point actually, Councillor. So at the moment the residents pay a standard charge for their heating.
But once the heat exchangers are installed, they will have metres, so they will not pay
the standing charge.
they will get charged for the heat that they use.
So there's two questions that I've got.
There's one, is this included in depooling?
And two, what measures have we done
about overheating in the common parts?
Because this is a big problem where
these are retrofitted into existing buildings.
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:30:28
Right, so the depooling part, I mean this is tenants individual flat so they will be responsible for their own bills on that part of it.
The community areas is part of the depooling and that's where they'll see a saving on that.
So it's replacing service charge but obviously that will be a much smaller charge because
there's more heat, there's more control over the heating and the HOA won't be subsidising
that in future because it will all be met from the default service charge. I think every
second point I'm going to have to come back to you on that Jim. But I'm not aware that
it's an issue at Bradford Court and I don't believe it was an issue at Windpine.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:31:09
I've only been to Bradford Court once but I have often been to Windpine House and if you can successfully do it at Whinpine House,
you can pretty much successfully do it anywhere,
you know, complex building.
So any other questions, or we could talk about,
you know, communal heating all night?
Oh, jolly good.
So we have a proposal in Councillor Shrew,
but I was very happy to second.
All those in favour, please indicate.
Terrific, thanks very much.
Item, where are we?
Sorry.
7 Quarter 1 Performance Report 2026-27
Item 7, Quarter 1, Performance Report 2627.
And Councillor Prater will lead us through it.
Thank you.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:31:54
This has been deeply unfairly being called the start of the Tim Prater show section of this.
It's absolutely not.
It's the encore to the Finance and Performance Sub -Committee
of the 29th of September.
You will see many of the papers from here
to the end of this evening
have been to that subcommittee,
and you will have seen within your 336 -page pack
the comments of that committee throughout
on each of the papers.
So obviously it was discussed there.
I attended, officers presented the reports on that occasion
and the questions made and the minutes
showed the questions raised and the answers given on those.
So what I'm not going to do, as is my one,
is reading through all these things.
This report is the summary of the quarter one
update report effectively monitoring our KPIs
and how we're doing.
The headline is under 2 .1 on my corporate performance.
We're on target on 43 out of 64.
We're within target on 5%.
Sorry, within target or on track to achieve
on 14 indicators 22 % and off target on 11%.
And the point of this is not that we look at ourselves
and we beat ourselves up about that 11 percent.
The point is that we've got our eye on them,
that we're watching and that we know
and that we can see that the changes are being made
and that the adjustments are being made
in order to get ourselves to meeting those targets at the end.
And that is very much the point of this
and why we see this report so regularly
and why Gavin and Jonathan get to spend so much time doing it,
because it is really helpful to making sure
that we actually get to the end of the year
when we delivered on as many of our targets as possible.
I'm not gonna go, there were a number of questions
and comments from the subcommittee,
and I'm not gonna go through all of them,
but there were a couple that I thought were
headline questions, so I will just go to a couple of those,
because there was, one question was on decent home standard,
and given our excellent C1 rating,
our, I believe, sector -beating C1 rating
that we got in July for our council housing,
there was concern that the decent home standards,
we didn't meet it on 100 % of our homes,
and the question was why.
And the answer to that was pretty quick,
it came very quickly.
It's because it's cyclical,
because effectively, during the course of the year,
you get your stock up to, by the end of the year,
you're meeting the decent home standard across the thing.
On the 1st of April, a member of your houses
then fall back out of that,
because you need to replace things
within a certain number of years,
and you need to update various things within the year.
So a percentage of them then drop off
being a decent home standard,
and you spent the year getting yourself
back up to 100 % again.
So the answer is that is what is happening.
Again, we are on target to get back to the 100 %
by the end of the year.
All of the work is in place,
and everything is in hand in order to get there.
But it is just a never -ending cycle.
You are never going to have 100 % on the 1st of April,
because that's not how this thing works.
It's not how the game goes.
A second question which was raised was around recycling
rates, very much in Council of Speakmans,
although it's noted that we're not getting to our 50 %
recycling target and whether this was a thing that we were
going to get to or whether there was,
why it was getting harder.
Well for this year, things like garden waste recycling
made that more difficult.
Very dry summer, much lower volumes in terms of that,
and therefore less of that going to recycling,
less weight going to recycling and therefore as a percentage, it drops as a percentage
of that, which means that you're recycling, you get further away from 50 % of recycling.
And actually, we're going to see that getting more and more challenging now, because from
October 27, the exchange for change scheme should be going live. So where you can actually
take back pet bottles and aluminium steel cans, you'll be charged deposit for those
things with many shops, and you'll take them back to the shops and you'll get your deposit
and put it back when you fund them.
But that means that you're then not putting your cans
and your bottle, plastic bottles,
into your recycling stream,
therefore we don't get the weight of that.
That goes elsewhere.
So our recycling volumes are likely to decline
in comparison to the total volume,
and we will move further away from 50 % recycling rate
for something which is absolutely and definitely
not Jeremy's fault.
but we will see that happen and that is something
that we're gonna have to think about in terms of that KPR
and in terms of how we measure that,
that we don't self -flagellate at that stage
because we're moving further away from a target
which is gonna get harder and harder to hit.
So they were a couple of the things which this raised.
Clearly you would have read through this report
and will have your own questions
and I'm absolutely sure that Gavin
and the others in the room would be delighted to take the questions on detail and specific targets as ever.
Happy to move the report and the recommendations.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:37:03
Thank you very much, Councillor Prater, and I'm very happy to second the report and open it up for questions. I've got a queue, sorry, Gary, slow off the mark this evening.
So, Councillor Scoffram, Councillor Speakman and then Councillor Fuller.
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:37:18
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:37:18
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:37:20
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:37:21
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:37:22
The recycling rate and the comments on it, I haven't liaised with Councillor Prater at all, but I think he's, Councillor Prater, you've said many of the things which I've prepared in advance,
which I don't know if you're disappointed or pleased.
Disappointed because I've gone through all the work of doing it,
but pleased because we're on the same page.
The points are well made.
Three and a half years ago, as everybody will remember,
we were elected to this chamber.
One of the things which we initiated at the very early stage
was the raise the rate campaign.
It seemed to me, as a newcomer,
that we were hovering around 45 %ish at that time.
Surely we could get over the 50 -50 mark.
And we've tried to do it in lots of different ways.
And the team has been really excellent doing that.
So we've had raised the rate of,
you're gonna attach paper, plastic or whatever,
raised the rate, food, raised the rate, plastic and so on.
It's a good campaign slogan.
And the team have done lots of different things,
including discount on recycling,
extra recycling bins and stickers on the bins.
We've talked about, we've had a lovely poster competition
which involves young people,
which Councillor Speakman and myself
go and visit every so often
and stand in front of the cameras
and meet some very enthusiastic young people.
The teams do it, basically the point I'm making
is the team's doing its jolly well, it's doing its best.
And one of the signs of that is the food recycling rate
has really improved, it improved by about 14 %
after the team picked up on the grant from KCC,
which very few of the districts did,
and that rate has been maintained.
But the headwinds are there,
and we're just not likely to shift it that much
given all the things that Councillor Prater has mentioned
about the reduction in waste and so on and so forth
and the new deposit schemes which are coming in.
So the question in my mind is where do we go from here?
We recognise that we are around the national average
which isn't above, it would be lovely to be
at the top of the pile, wouldn't it?
But being in the middle is what the average is.
And so it's not that bad, and it could be
that the target needs to be reconsidered,
as indeed Councillor Prager mentioned,
because we're not going to get there
as far as I can see in the present circumstances.
And if you remember on previous reports,
we had I think 1 ,350 something incidents
of fly tipping across the district last year.
And that indicates quite clearly that not all residents
are taking recycling as seriously as we do in this room.
In fact, they don't carry a dam.
They carry so little that they go into the countryside
and tip it by the side of the road.
So public support and public engagement
is absolutely crucial and I think we probably got
to the point where the team is, as I say,
doing a very good job but I don't see much prospect
of it shifting dramatically.
I'd like to think I'm wrong and I'd like to think
that events will prove me wrong,
but that's my reading of the KPI and the need to review it.
Thank you very much.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:40:43
Councillor Spigman. Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:40:46
Yeah, I'm just, much as I was very pleased to take most of Stephen's credit for recycling,
we do work very closely together,
but I think the way to distinguish between our double act
is I'm rubbish and Stephen is recycling,
so there's a good way of remembering it.
But just wanted to add that the deposit return scheme
is something to be thinking about
because that really is kind of make the 50 % almost, well it's almost pretty impossible anyway.
But also to remember that in fact in 2035 our target goes up to 65%, so I think the phrase
it's for the birds is probably quite apt for that one. I think we do need to rethink our targets
nationally and locally very much from that.
Councillor Fuller.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:41:30
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:41:33
I feel guilty for getting a compost bin now. I should have put it all in food waste instead. I could have put the numbers up. Anyway, I just wanted to briefly thank the Information
Government complaints and Customer Support teams for continuing to meet targets. We had
a little bit of a dip in the first quarter but we're still in the green as it were and
and we're keeping an eye on things
and I'm confident that we'll continue
to remain in the group.
So thank you to the team.
Thank you, Councillor Blightmore.
Sorry, it'll take us back to recycling briefly.
So I'm pleased to see the mention
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:42:10
of improving recycling capture rates within common old properties,
because that is an area, I think,
where there is scope for improvement, isn't there?
And it would be good to know what the progress
on that looks like at some point.
I also bemoan the loss of the thing at Sunny Sands where you could put your bottles and
cans in there because what we don't really offer effectively is recycling in the bins
along the seafront and I would really like, I think it moved to Dinchurch, I think the
one that, there was a nice little campaign around it, so I think we could do more to
collect that rubbish, some of that rubbish that blights us on the seafront and recycle
it would be very nice.
But ultimately, I think when we come to looking at targets,
perhaps it's separating the garden waste
from the other recycling is the way to go,
because I do think that's a little bit different.
We're not, I mean, it's great that people
have their garden waste collected,
but it's not the same as recycling single -use plastic
and things like that.
It's a different thing, and people may be doing other stuff
with that garden waste.
If it's not coming to us, they may be composting it,
doing other very good things with it.
It's very hard to do very good things
with single -use plastics,
so we should be concentrating our efforts, really,
I think, on trying to get those rates up.
Councillor Blackmore.
Sorry, I was going to talk about recycling.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:43:30
No, because I picked up on the detail in the report that said that due to the closure of the facility
we used to use, we now have moved to a different one,
which, quote, recovers fewer recyclables,
and that's presumably something that's completely
out of our control, but it just made me wonder how much that has impacted on our rates as well.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:43:57
Anyone? Gavin, have you not? Thank you, Lida, and thank you, Councillor Blakeney, Gavin Edwards - 0:43:59
for the question. On the operational detail, I would have to clarify that with the waste substance management. I'm very happy to take that back and get a response for Cabinet on that.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
Okay.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:44:11
Any other questions or queries on that? No?
Very good.
8 Treasury Management Annual Report 25/26
We have a proposer and I always have a second.
All those in favour, please indicate.
Thank you very much everyone.
Moving on to item eight,
Treasury Management Annual Report 2526.
And again, it's Councillor Prater.
Thank you.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:44:36
And again, this report went to the the Finance and Performance Subcommittee
on the 29th of September.
What the report does is it reviews
our treasury management activities,
so our investment and borrowing
for the financial year 25 -26,
including our treasury management indicators.
It meets the requirements of all of the codes
of practise and conduct that we should comply with
through that, and it is in front of you here.
There is little there that you are going to find exciting
apart from how well I think our treasury management process
is run and how well we balance the costs of our borrowing
against the income of our investments.
But it does note, and before somebody reads ahead and goes,
there's something in here you didn't talk about,
I'll talk about it, that the report notes that at one stage
we exceeded the approved indicator,
which limits the proportion of borrowing,
which matures within 12 months, to 30%.
Essentially, it says we should keep short -term borrowing down
and have more long -term borrowing,
and we went above the 30 % self -imposed indicator on that
to 43 % in the 31st of March.
The reason for doing that is because in and around March,
life had got quite choppy,
and external treasury advice was broadly
to avoid taking longer term borrowing at that stage
because the rates were quite high
and why were you going to borrow long term at a high rate
when they were hoping that those rates
were going to come down.
So the council avoided taking long term borrowing
for that balloon, but that moved us above that indicator.
I think that the action that taken there was consistent
with the advice that we took.
And as far as I can tell, and as far as anything I can see,
it was the right thing to do under those circumstances
and it saved us money.
However, what is certainly true,
and I think it's clear is that the escalation process
on that wasn't totally followed.
Broadly, Alan and I didn't know about that
until a bit later and we should have done.
and we accept that, and when we were ticking towards that indicator, we should have known that,
and we should have been going to say in advance or during the period, we're there, we're sorry,
and this is the reason why we're doing that, because it's an indicator.
It would be perfectly reasonable to exceed that indicator when circumstances require doing so, which is what happened.
But we have reviewed that process so that there will be a more timely reporting if we're going to go through indicators again.
And that may well happen.
Life is changing quickly at the moment,
and the investment world is changing very rapidly as well,
and plunges from interesting situation to crisis at speed.
So things that we did not foresee
in setting those indicators will occur again,
but we just want to make sure that next time
something like that happens,
we report a little bit quicker at that.
But I'm still very confident
that what was done was the right thing.
But yeah, so the person who read that report
and thought there's a gotcha there that they're not going to talk about, we just talked about it.
I'm very happy to move the report and the recommendations.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:48:01
Thank you very much Councillor Prater. I'm very happy to second the recommendation and open it up for questions.
Councillor McConville.
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:48:14
Thanks. Just looking at 5 .3 in the report, just the different money market funds, pooled funds, I mean, on paper, obviously, where we look at net movements,
we're increasing the money market,
we've increased the money market funds
over the last financial year, you know, quite substantially,
but obviously that's the lowest rate of return.
So are we restricted in the other two
in terms of we cannot put sort of more funds in those
if they're offering a better rate of return?
And that's why we've largely focused on
the money market funds as opposed to the property pool funds.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:48:54
Jonathan, are you able to answer? Well done. Thank you, leader, and thank you, Councillor Jonathan Smith - 0:48:59
McCumble. So money market funds are generally very, very short -term funds. There'll be a couple of days, and so that's the shortest term. Some of the other things like the property
pooled funds, they're longer term, they're slightly longer term funds. So it's more about,
again, the short and long -term split of cash, and it can be based very much on our daily
cash flow, because obviously there's a lot of money going both into and out of the council
daily and so that money then gets moved around as it comes in and as it
falls and obviously the positions you see in the table will be specific
for that day and it may be then the next day we didn't have that much in money
market funds that have been moved out and set against sort of a longer term or
basically they would be moved around. Unfortunately, I'll just give you a
snapshot of a specific day and it changes obviously literally every day.
Good, jolly good.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:49:54
Okay, any more questions or queries? We have a proposer.
I was happy to second.
All those in favour, please indicate.
Thank you very much everyone.
9 Budget Strategy 2027/28
Item nine is budget strategy 2728.
Councillor Prater.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:50:17
Can you guess which subcommittee saw this on the 29th of September? So the budget strategy is again an annual process, but it sets out guidelines and assumptions
for preparing the 27 -28 budget and sets the timetable you will see in this, sets the timetable
for that process and how we're going to get to the budget
by the back end of February, or not quite to the back end
of February this time, definitely not quite.
So there are the, it gives the framework
for putting those budgets together,
which we have discussed in the past.
It is very similar to last year's.
It will support delivery as well of a new MTFS,
which as ever will have more clarity and detail
in the first couple of years and more and more guessing
as we go out, extended guessing with style,
as Alan keeps reminding me,
in terms of what the budget will look like
in three or four years time.
But it also enables us to go to consultation
on our budget at this stage.
So yeah, the paper is there, starts on page 249
nine of your pack, and I'd like to apologise for the extensive nature of this particular
pack. In the olden days when these used to be posted to people, this would have been
called a cat killer. But happily, it now just troubles your email instead. So the paper
and the recommendations are there in review, and I'm happy to move them. Thank you.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:51:55
Thank you very much, Councillor Prita. I'm very happy to second and open up for questions or queries.
Councillor Scofford.
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:52:07
Perhaps more of an observation than a query, but given the extraordinary amount of debate that's going on around AI and the uncertainty that that's introducing, I wonder, I haven't
done a word search on it to cheque whether AI is specifically mentioned, but it might
be appropriate to include that more prominently.
I would think that it could come in Section 1 .3
where uncertainties and so on are there
at the end of the bullet points.
I mean, the technological advances and so on,
you can read it in there,
but I think that's probably more old thinking
rather than the absolutely transformative impact.
I've got no idea what we'll be talking about
in a year or two if and when AI escapes
and starts to control us.
So I just wonder, as I say, it's an observation,
it's a bit of a left of centre observation,
but I thought I'd make it anyway.
And maybe there is a wider conversation to be had
about how this council views and, I don't know,
adapt is perhaps the wrong word,
positions itself in the current time of great uncertainty.
Thank you very much.
Alan?
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:53:18
Thank you, Chair. Mr Alan Mitchell - 0:53:20
So I will firstly confirm the report was written by AI, so just give assurance to members on that. But also we obviously have a corporate risk register which is on that. We also have cybersecurity as
well as a number of ITT policies which also deal with AI. But you're absolutely right, it's
definitely something that is impacting on businesses as well as our government generally. So
So I guess the point really being is that that's a position to be monitored and reviewed
as we go forward.
And as we understand any impacts that do come out from that, they are factored into any
budget processes.
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:54:02
I think monitoring sounds like a good way forward. Thank you very much.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:54:06
Councillor Fuller was first, I think. Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:54:13
I just wanted to briefly come back to AOA and just mention that, or suggest that part of that monitoring should also take into account the...
we've talked about the potential positives and so on,
but also the circular firing squad
that seems to be the way that AI is being financed
at the moment and the potential impacts
of a third of the American economy being wiped out
by an AI bubble bursting.
So I just suggest that we include that
in some of the maths we're doing, as it were.
Councillor Pro Tem.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's fair to say
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:54:42
that if one was gonna look at all of the risks of AI, You'd start with the non -zero chance that it's here in 10 years and we're not.
So yeah, there's lots of things, including beyond just the budget and certainly the budget
strategy to be looking at here.
I think it's fair to say that yes, the treasury management impacts of that are potentially
very, you know, potentially high.
It does add potential volatility to the financial markets and that would impact both our borrowing
and our lending.
it would hit everyone pretty much equally.
So we're all dead under those circumstances,
which might be the way the AI does it.
But I accept the point that within our constraints
and one of the things that we should be looking at
potentially within the area,
we should be including within the report
as things that we are concerned about
is that there is increased volatility in financial markets
due to AI and AI investment
as well as due to many other things.
It is much easier to have a budget strategy
and predictable financial position
than it is a unpredictable one.
AI is making some things less predictable,
and the less predictable they are,
the more difficult it is to budget for them.
So I totally take your point.
I think it's reasonable that we build it
into our common tree in future years.
I don't know what you do about it,
because broadly it's a what you do if the asteroid hits,
because I don't have an answer for you for that.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:56:22
Thank you very much, Councillor Proater. Any other questions or queries?
I have one question.
Obviously there's a very scary table in here, Alan,
of our accumulating deficit.
So I'd be very keen, I think it says on the next page, that officers are working on proposals
to reduce the gap and these will be presented to members as part of the budget process.
Be really keen.
Sooner rather than later, lads.
If we could.
So sorry.
Any more questions?
So we have a proposer.
We have a seconder.
All those in favour, please indicate.
Thank you very much, everyone.
We have done nine.
10 Q1 HRA budget monitoring 2026/2027
So number 10, quarter one HRA budget monitoring.
Is this Councillor Shroob?
Yes, Councillor Shroob.
Thank you.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:57:23
So this report summarises the HRA revenue and capital projections based on expenditure over the quarter to the end of 30th of June.
As it's the report for the first quarter,
projections for the HRA can be quite challenging
to forecast and given the relative stability
of the HRA account, there is little to specifically
highlight at this stage.
As you'll see in the report, there's a very small
overspend forecast on the revenue account of 17 ,000.
This will very likely change by the year end,
largely depending on the accounting treatment of salaries relating to capital projects,
as highlighted in the report.
On the capital budget, excluding the new builds, the variances are $8 ,000.
The new build line will change a lot depending on the progress of developments,
so it's helpful to separate this from the maintenance and planned works balances.
So I'd like to move the recommendations. Thank you.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:58:26
Thank you very much, Councillor Fruge. I'm very happy to second and open it up for the vote. Councillor Blakemore.
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:58:37
Thank you, Chair. I just had a question about 2 .3. The net increase in rental income of 124 ,000 relates solely to the introduction of a new tenant service charge management
fee of £1 per week. The additional income generated contributes towards funding the
service charge officer post, which has an annual cost
of approximately 44 ,000 including on -cost.
So it's not so much contributing to it as covering it
three times over on the basis of that paragraph,
unless I'm misunderstanding that.
So I was interested in what that service charge officer post,
what that encompasses.
And then just question, so we're basically charging
everybody a pound a week towards that,
and bringing in more income than we need
to cover the cost of that post.
So what's the rest of that income being used for?
Or are we actually just charging people more than we need to?
And it's obviously it's a regressive charge, we've put a pound on everybody's rent,
regardless of how much rent they pay.
So I was just interested in that. Thank you.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:59:35
Very good. Is there anyone able to... Jonathan, you can answer. Good. Thank you.
Thank you, Lida. Thank you, Councillor Blakemore.
And so effectively, this relates to the de -pooling project.
Jonathan Smith - 0:59:45
So you recall that in December of last year, September 25, obviously the pooling was agreed
as part of the HRA.
So taking away, moving away from the fixed charges
that we were applying in the HRA to the,
to sort of the actual true costs.
Now obviously that, when we did that,
when we were preparing the budget, for example,
even the service charge income levels
and the rental income levels,
we obviously were based, they were based on
sort of projections at that time.
So when we set the budget, we'd set it at a certain level.
It's obviously turned out that the income that's being generated is slightly ahead
of what we projected as part of the budget.
So that's why you've got the extra income showing.
And also part of the depooling was obviously it requires more management
where you're obviously doing things based on true bills rather than just a set fee
which we were originally inflating each year.
So there's an overall sort of management around that.
So there's a fee that goes towards that.
And so that was again part of the de -pooling.
And obviously we have a specific officer
that's been, that's dedicated solely to dealing with
some of the queries, like for example,
the tenancy support fund that was set up as part of the HRA.
So that's part of that post.
But there are a number of people involved actually.
So beyond that specific post,
there are a number of officers who deal with
and different elements of service charging.
For example, a leasehold service charge officer,
and it's not more than just the sort of one person name
in the report.
Thank you very much.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:01:22
Any other questions or queries on this? Good, okay.
Councillor Shrew proposed.
I was very happy to second.
All those in favour, please indicate.
Thank you very much, everyone.
Item 11, question one.
11 Q1 General Fund Capital Budget Monitoring 2026/27
a quarter one, general fund capital budget monitoring.
Councillor Prater.
That's easy for you to say.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:01:47
Again, the Finance and Performance Subcommittee have had this report in advance.
There's questions on it.
Broadly, as we know with capital project funding,
you set your budget for the year
and then there is some slippage from last year
which comes into your budget at the beginning,
and when you get towards the end of the year,
there are a few things that you're not going to finish,
which will slip into the next year
and affect the next year.
So capital budgets roll a bit.
Things do not get neatly finished on the 31st of March,
and everything put away,
despite our hope that that would happen.
So much of the change which is reported within this report
shows rollover from 25 -26 into 26 -27
of projects which were still in train,
about five million pounds,
moving towards five million pounds of that,
most of which is around bluff work,
which will be completed before the 31st of March, 2027.
He said hopefully.
But there are a number of other projects
which we have added in year as well,
and they are detailed in 2 .2 and 2 .3,
broadly the making and his life more difficult budget lines.
So 2 .3 are where we already agreed to make Andy's life more difficult and the five spending
lines there around digital lifeline, Martello Lakes, a sport facility there, mermaid beach
repairs, swimming pool support fund and Cheriton Rec ground are things that we have discussed
before.
Now 2 .2, I believe that these are items that we haven't formally added to the capital programme
and this report would do so.
And if you can speak to those, we can do so.
So that's Ship Street in 132 ,000 pounds of extra works there
in order to progress the getting that to a developer.
And 2 .2B Seabrook play area, initial 10 ,000 pounds
towards the scheme or the regeneration scheme planned there.
Recommendation three of this is a sentence
I really never thought I was going to end up moving
at this or any other meeting.
So that's to approve the environment of 84 ,000 pounds
from the Westenhanger Castle outer courtyard wall budget
from the Westenhanger Castle window budget.
Now, I haven't had a great deal of contact time
with either of these two budgets,
and if you want some detail on why we are moving money
from budget A to budget B in Westenhanger Castle,
Andy is your man for that, and I'm sure he will outline it in detail with great historical reference.
But the report and the recommendation, including that one, are ahead of you.
It allows us to manage our capital and monitor how that capital expenditure is going.
And I look forward to your window slash courtyard wall questions.
Happy to move.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:04:53
Thanks very much, Councillor Prater. I'm very happy to second and open it up for a flood of window wall questions.
The obvious one is why the movement in the budget from windows to walls?
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 1:05:18
That is essentially the reason. Right, so very quickly, the quotes for the walls have come back prohibitively expensive
on the scope. We've looked at the scope, it has been changed a little bit, but it's still
more than the budget. The windows job currently isn't ready to progress, and more work needs
to be done on that and is also basically the cost of everything has shot up massively in
in the last couple of years, really noticeably
with historic listed buildings it seems.
So the windows budget is gonna be used
to contribute to the walls budget.
The walls can then proceed this year
because that is the most pressing job if you like.
This has health and safety implications to that as well.
And then a new capital bid is gonna be put in
for the windows for next year in the 27 -28 budget.
I can provide more detail should you wish.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:06:17
Yeah, triple glazed, yeah. Fantastic. Well done. Any other queries or questions on this? So Councillor Prater proposed. I think I seconded. All those in favour, please indicate. Thank
12 Q1 General Fund Revenue budget Monitoring 2026/2027
you very much, everyone. Item 12, quarter one, general fund revenue budget monitoring
26 -27. Councillor Prater.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:06:48
Thank you. Guess which subcommittee has seen that recently? Again, this has been through and the reports, the minutes are available for that, showing the questions raised and
the answers given. Thank you for that being presented by Jonathan and Alan to the committee
who had a number of helpful questions which helped me then try and deal with those questions
before you ask them here.
As ever, this is a report based on the projected outcome
for the year based on the general fund revenue position
for quarter one, 26, 27.
As we know, this changes a lot in the year
as things move around.
We're going to be more likely that by the end
of quarter three, we know how the year will end
than we will by the end of quarter one,
but the projection that we have here
is what we have at this moment,
and it shows an unfavourable position, i .e. that we will be £503 ,000 down against our net revenue budget of £28 .2 million.
Obviously we'd set a balanced budget, i .e. we were expecting to go 0, we're currently £503 ,000 down on that.
Almost all of that, £456 ,000, is in unreclaimable temporary accommodation costs.
Now, that's not headline to anyone,
that's not news to anyone here.
We've seen this before, we knew it was coming.
It's a key ongoing theme, and we did increase the budget
for this year for that cost,
because we knew that that was coming.
But despite increasing that number of costs,
the demand is higher than we projected.
The costs are higher than we projected,
and there are additional costs, for instance,
costs that we incurred due to the burst in fire,
which will have significant use of TA,
and that's nowhere near these numbers yet
because it wasn't in quarter one.
So there will be more TA cost coming
that we didn't budget for because nobody expected
the bursting to catch fire and we had to rehome
a lot of people at short notice.
Now, we have obviously discussed significantly
in the past how we are going to mitigate those,
mitigate that cost as much as we can
and protect ourselves against those.
and we know that if we are using temporary accommodation,
which we own, as opposed to temporary accommodation,
which we don't own, we can reclaim all of the money
from government as opposed to a tiny percentage
of that money, which is of course crazy,
but it's not our crazy, it's government crazy.
So we have already agreed five million pounds worth
of capital expenditure on TA, which is being used.
Eight units were bought and are in use, I understand,
and I'm not gonna jinx it,
but there is going to be news on other expenditure
of that five million pounds over coming weeks.
As more and more of that is used,
and more and more units for temporary accommodation
are available and come online.
But I'm saying nothing out loud.
But what we can't know is whether the demand is stabilising
or whether it has stabilised a little bit over a few weeks,
but I can't tell you what's going to happen to that next week.
And if it's stabilised and all comes down,
then our position will start to improve.
But if it continues to go up, then the position will continue to get worse.
If we keep seeing more demand,
it may be that we need to look at, as we said,
when we put five million pounds in for additional TA,
but maybe we have to do that again
and we have to spend more capital on more TA,
and there is some background work being looking
at those numbers and what we could do around that.
But there is also a limiting factor
in terms of how much you can buy.
It is not that there are thousands of units
out there at the moment begging for Andy to buy them
so that we can use them as TA.
It's actually quite difficult finding stuff
of the right quality and in the right configuration
that we can use it for those things.
Otherwise, it would be bought by now and we'd be using it.
It's a difficult process.
But if there is a potential there
that more capital expenditure would help us
limit these losses in future,
we will come back with proposals on that.
But it's a question of making sure
not only that we're spending the right amount
of money on the right things,
that's helping us control that budget
of unreclaimed TA costs.
I think most of the rest of the budget was pretty much straightforward.
Jeremy had a number of technical questions, which I was delighted he shared with me in advance.
I'm going to let him ask them out loud for the benefit of the tape.
I might even let Jonathan answer them out loud for the benefit of the tape as well.
But the report is in front of you. I'm very happy to move the report and the recommendations.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:11:53
Thank you very much, Councillor Prazier. I'm very happy to second the report. And just to mention, I was at the Kent leaders' meeting today and a lot of districts are being, maybe
not crippled, but they are being severely impacted by their temporary accommodation
costs. So we are not out on a limb here. Everyone is suffering because of temporary accommodation
costs. So Councillor Prater proposed I second it. I'm happy to open it up for questions.
Councillor Speakeman. As Councillor Prater very kindly said, I did
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 1:12:32
have some technical questions. You pretty much answered actually, but it was just kind of I think should we be worried because of the fact that we've got this unfavourable
variance of $500 ,000, which is mainly, as I understand,
due to the increased benefits payments, $456 ,000.
We've already set aside $1 .3 million
in our budget, which is obviously,
we've gone over that.
And I think the thing that worries me really was,
if you look at, obviously, the general fund at $3 .38 million,
that's gone down from what it was at $4 .46 million.
So it just feels to me like a slightly something,
not necessarily sleepless nights,
but it's not something which I think is great
and sustainable in the longer term.
I don't know if that's kind of,
am I overstating that or maybe that's?
Are you gonna take this for pressure?
I'll get my generalist stab at it.
Should we be worried about overspending in year on TA costs?
Absolutely, which is one of the things that we've discussed
in terms of capital expenditure there.
It is one of the most substantial pressures on our budget.
And it's broadly that we are spending money
on putting people in TA,
which the government then only gives us
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:13:50
a very small percentage of that money back. And the more people you put into TA,
because they present us needing TA
and we absolutely have to house them,
the more that costs us and the less,
but we're still not getting that money back from elsewhere.
Whereas if we own that TA,
we can then claim all of the money back from government
because that makes sense.
Is that a problem?
Yes, is it a problem that we've budgeted for?
Not as much as we could have done,
but if we budgeted more money for that,
we'd have spent half a million pounds less
on something else.
We're open to offers on what that should be for next year.
Some of the movements in terms of the movements
and reserves that you've identified in here,
they were planned reserve movements anyway.
So some of the movements from general funds
to vet reserves, for instance, that was expected.
Reserves do alter and fluctuate
during the course of the year.
An amount of it was in the budget and planned anyway,
so I wouldn't be too worried about that.
The fact that we are 503, you know,
by the end of the year, we would be,
if this continues, about 500 ,000 pounds
worse off cash than we expected it to be.
That's what the position would look like at the moment,
as long as these numbers remained
as they were on these trends.
It's, you're making a projection at this stage,
but it's about half a million pounds is there.
Should we be worried?
Yes, that's why we've talked about it before.
That's why we spent 5 million pounds on capital.
We put 5 million pounds aside for capital
for purchasing more of this
and why people are busting a gut
to try and get that bought and ready to use
and in use as soon as possible.
but it's not easy.
But yeah, it is definitely a threat to this council
as it is a threat to many other councils.
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 1:15:39
Councillor Spakeman, you happy? Another different question.
It actually relates to 3 .2 regarding waste and recycling.
So I thought I'd have to make a comment on that.
Actually, it's a comment on that and also a query as well.
So the comment is actually that 55 ,000 got
an interesting context in that it arises out of,
shall we say, a difference of view between ourselves
and the contracted partners, so with Vioja.
They overlooked, as I understand it,
they overlooked an indexation item on the contract
and said, oops, and that goes back to 2021.
Could we have some dosh back for that, please?
And we kind of demurred, went to,
both went to lawyers and eventually we came to an amicable agreement.
We just backdated to 25, 26, so you could say it was a bit of a result.
And then on that point, I think it says 55 ,000, but actually if you look also on the,
the Appendix B, page 307, regulatory community services, it actually says 22 ,000.
So I don't know if there's a typo discrepancy or there, just a, I mean, it's a minor thing,
but I mean, it could be, or maybe I've got that completely wrong, which is, I'm sorry.
Jonathan, no doubt has the answer.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:17:09
Thank you, Lida. Thank you, Councillor Sweetman. Jonathan Smith - 1:17:12
So, I mean, you are correct. There's a minor inconsistency in the presentations
in the report and the appendices.
So, for the overall waste contract,
the correct figures for you to be aware of
are those highlighted in the main cabinet report
and in Appendix A, which are consistent with each other
and show a pressure of 55 ,000 on waste and regulatory services.
So, Appendix B, though, it's a report
that deals with variances over 20K.
So, it provides a slight, it's a technical subset of variances
which is the aim of highlighting sort of larger variances
to members.
So the 22K in that appendix is also correct.
It's just a different view and it depends on what's been
sort of net off against that to come up with that
specific appendix.
There's obviously, there's lots of nuances like this
in the detail of the movements in the general fund
and we try and present this in a way that's understandable
for members.
This is a circumstance where both numbers are in fact
correct but.
Two things can be true at the same time.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:18:16
Welcome to the wonderful world of local authority finance. Councillor Butcher.
Cllr James Butcher - 1:18:27
Thank you. Yeah, it was just to pick up on the conversation about the sort of future position and then in particular about movement from reserves, which looks the total reserves reducing by about 14, 15 percent.
Is our long -term view that that's going to keep happening each year or that this year is sort of particularly challenging?
Alan?
Mr Alan Mitchell - 1:18:53
So the thing is, Councillor Preys has already mentioned the movement on that reserve plan reserves and a lot of that was putting money aside into the vet, which is to do with vehicles, equipment, certainly in terms of maintaining your grounds maintenance and vehicles and what have you.
But in terms of the actual general fund, it's almost like a reserve of life, life resort
really.
So we tend to maintain that as a reasonable level.
However it is there should we need it.
But if you look at the overall reserve position, there are actually a good amount of reserves
that can actually be utilised for intended purposes.
For example, homelessness or you've got the EP Arquette reserve, there's a number of reserves
there that actually will fund certain purposes.
So even though the general fund has gone down,
that's in a plan structured away.
And when we go for each of the budget process,
we look at the reserves in its entirety
and make the right decision in terms of utilisation
of those reserves.
But general fund that tend to leave alone
as much as possible.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:19:58
You OK with that? Councillor Butch.
Cllr James Butcher - 1:20:03
Well, I suppose just sort of yes and. I suppose just on the face of it, anyone looking at that would say okay so our total reserves are down this year.
But we would be saying the same next year that we started with 19 .387 at the beginning of 2027
and then at the end of 2027 we're looking at less than that and so on and so on.
Mr Alan Mitchell - 1:20:31
Yes, so non -medium temperature strategy, you'll see the useful reserve built into that. the absolute those reserves will be utilised over that term of that meeting
term of strategy but in terms of a planned use but what we also find is
that where we get funds coming in grants coming like homelessness or more of the
extended packaging they will go back into the reserves and get utilised so
you will see the reserves move both increasing and decreasing but for in the
plan structured way.
Councillor Prita.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:21:04
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:21:06
Yes, I think what is useful to look at there is that you are looking at the position from the beginning of this year and not the beginning of the last year or the previous year.
Money goes into reserves and comes out of reserves and there is fluctuation there.
It's not that we are on a constant slope of spending the reserves all the way through.
During the course of last year we put some money into reserves for specific things in
in order to deliver specific projects,
and then we're delivering those specific projects,
we spend that reserve, and then we put some more money
into a different reserve in order to do a different thing.
So what's more useful, I think, in terms of that
is not looking to see how reserves have changed
in the last three months or six months,
because they just will, they're going to move around.
The general reserve should remain about static.
We are setting a general budget which does not rely
on using our general reserve.
So that should remain pretty much static over time.
And if you look at our total reserves going back over the last three or four years,
you will see that they go up and down a bit but they, it's not that we're running out of them.
It's not that we're spending them out.
It's that we put some money, we put money in for certain things
and then we take money back out for certain things.
So it's worth looking at the trend on those as opposed to the snapshot
in order to get a decent picture of it.
I'm going to guess this doesn't, yeah, okay, and then maybe we need to pick this up afterwards,
Cllr James Butcher - 1:22:24
but I suppose there is quite a substantial reduction in the general fund over this year, general fund reserve.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:22:32
And Avan is going to offer some words of wisdom. Mr Alan Mitchell - 1:22:37
So I think, just to make a point, so at the end of 25 -26, we were looking at reserves, doing a full review of our MRP strategy.
We generated a significant surplus.
That surplus was purposely put into a reserve, the carry -for reserve, so it would be able
to fund the next two years budget gap under the midterm plan strategy.
So that is a planned use.
So we've made those changes, we've identified a surplus, and that surplus we've been simply
set aside to fund, in this case, the budget gap.
But what you will see is that throughout everything that we do in terms of the reserves, there
is a plan focus for those use of reserves. They're not used generally to
fund normal general fund expenditure. So for example the vet that's capital item
for example on the homelessness that's a specific grant age being ring -fed for
homelessness we cannot fund it use it to fund other activities in general fund so
there's certain parts of that those reserves that we will simply utilise
because that's what they're there for. But in terms of the general fund we tend
to maintain that at a stable level. If you look at other councils they have a lot
lower general fund than us. I personally will maintain it above 10 % you know I'll
ensure that that general fund does not blow full below 10 % of our
operational budget where someone like a see around 3 % so there's a significant
difference in terms of that level. But the general fund is there as they
reserve to use as and when we need to but as a last resort we will utilise
upper reserves primarily for that purpose that they're set up for and then
we'll go forward. For example there's a million pound in the LTR reserve so as
we go forward we review that position then that will come into play as well.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:24:31
Are you okay with that Councillor Butcher? Cllr James Butcher - 1:24:38
So my question isn't really about what the reserves are used for it's a real kind of member of the public trying to understand reserves sound like our savings, that's kind
of how it sounds, or money that we've got in reserve, and trying to understand, say
three years ago, was that figure akin to around 20 million, and what did it look like in about
five years' time, say. So is it staying about the same level, or is that over time a bit
of a steady decline. So I appreciate all the, you know, moves in and out and gets used for
different things, but it's just trying from a member of the public trying to understand
is there a set of reserves that we're whittling down even over the long term or is it actually
staying pretty stable even if it looks like it's moving quite a lot in this financial
year. That was the bit I was trying to understand.
Mr Alan Mitchell - 1:25:31
So the reality is they will continue to decline. You know, even though we are trying to maintain healthy preserves and making sure that we
have that stability in our budgeting process, the reality is as government grants reduce,
you know, the amount of war that we can forget for homelessness drops, however the costs
increase, then you will see those reserves decline.
Yeah.
So I suppose the question at the end again, how much of the funding is it?
No, as we obviously go through this budget process and we actually get more clarity on
that information, then we obviously will put actually what we plan to use to reserve, what
they're for and therefore what our remaining balance is for.
Also the difficulty in the medium -term funding strategy is that for the next two years we
know what government funding is, we know what our business rates are, that sort of
thing, but in year four or five we're back into business set, business rate
reset and also a new settlement figure, so we don't know what those figures will
be. So in terms of the media to fund strategy and its utilisation reserves,
we'll make it as accurate as possible, but there are an element in the last two
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:26:49
years of, you know, make the best assumptions that we can. Okay, very good. Any other questions or queries?
Councillor Mcondale.
Really small one compared to that.
Cllr Connor McConville - 1:26:59
Just in Appendix B in Revs and Bens, 17K is a common extension for a welfare officer to work on housing depooling.
Obviously it says it's recharged to the HRA,
but will that then be funded in the HRA
or with the surplus of the one pound that Councillor Blakemore mentioned in that item?
Is that, could that, because it is part of the depooling programme, so.
Jonathan Smith - 1:27:31
Thank you, thank you Councillor Campbell. Yes, because effectively there'll be, in the general fund budget you see the recharge line,
so recharge will go through the recharge and technically every single member of staff is
actually set up in the general fund and then recharged the HVAC.
But yeah, it's all part of that process.
Very good. Thank you very much.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:27:49
OK, so we have a proposal in Councillor Prater. I was very happy to second.
All those in favour, please indicate.
Very good. And our final item of the evening,
13 Q1 Treasury Management budget monitoring 2026/27
quarter one, Treasury Management Budget Monitoring 26, 27.
And it's Councillor Prater.
For the final time tonight, I promise.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:28:12
As you'll know, again, this is one of those reports that we have to receive on a regular basis.
It updates on our treasury management indicators
and the financial position at the moment,
globally, amongst other things, which is interesting.
The recommendations are heavy.
The one thing that I did want to flag, though,
before Stephen got there, is on page 320 and 21.
one of the report is the section on the environmental,
social, and governance investment,
so that's items 513 to 518,
and the chart which comes with 518,
which I think shows really significant progress
in our monitoring and reporting of how our investment
meet those reasonable standards in terms of our
environmental, social, and ethical investment process.
There is going to be more that we can do about that,
but the first thing is recognising what standards there are,
how our investments meet those standards,
and then to develop that more as we go further.
I'm really grateful to Danny and to Alan
to moving this forward.
Three or four years ago, there was very little
around this within these reports.
There's now significantly more,
and I think it's becoming clearer as well,
as well as actually showing that there is a commitment
to us using our investments in an ethical way as much as we can within SITFA rules and
within government rules and those investments. So the report's there. It's a great read right
the way through to page 336 of the pack, and I'd like to move the report and the recommendation.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:29:58
Thank you very much, Councillor Prita. I'm very happy to second. Are there any questions or queries? Councillor Scofford.
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 1:30:07
Just to say, following on from that, I really do welcome page 320 and the Sustainable Development Goals.
I can't miss the opportunity.
They're there in colour.
Absolutely wonderful.
They're only colour in this particular report, I think.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:30:23
Councillor Speakman. No, you're fine.
Okay.
Jolly good.
Any other questions or queries on this one?
No?
Okay.
So, Councillor Preiser proposed, I seconded.
All those in favour, please indicate.
Thank you very much
and thank you for your attendance this evening.
Thank you.