Cabinet - Wednesday 13 December 2023, 5:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Cabinet
Wednesday, 13th December 2023 at 5:00pm 

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Slide selection

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:00:00
meeting will be webcast live to the internet, for those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed, you will need to leave the Chamber for members officers and other speaking at the meeting, it is important that the microphones are used, so viewers on the webcast and others in the room may hear you.
would anyone with a mobile phone, please switch it to silent mode as they can be distracting,
I would like to remind Members that, although we all have strong opinions on matters under consideration, it is important to treat members officers and public speakers with respect, thank you.
so we can start with apologies for absence, Gemma we've received an apology from Councillor Holgate.
Ms Jemma West - 0:00:50
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:00:55
thank you very much and we are expecting Councillor Butcher.

1 Apologies for Absence

2 Declarations of Interest

that is probably running a few minutes, like I think, okay, moving on to item 2 declarations of interest.
Councillor Shoot.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:01:13
I would like to declare an interest as a director of Otterspool Park LLPs, so I will not be taking part in the the last item.
thank you very much.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:01:24
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:01:30
we are a decade to declare an interest in the solar park agenda, which is in my ward
I don't think that that will have any any impact in terms of your ability to debate the item, thank you very much.

3 Minutes

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:01:47
OK to record, are we done on the declarations OK, thank you very much, everyone moving on to Item 3, the minutes does anyone have any concerns or items to raise regarding the minutes?
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:02:05
can I take them as agreed, you want someone to move them.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:02:08
I would be very appreciative, Councillor Pryor too, if you would move
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:02:10
the minutes.
is everyone in favour?
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:02:17
second yeah, second there we go yeah.
Councillor Speakman, we you seconding while I was.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:02:26
this year.
now absolutely muffle entirely so Councillor Price here to proposed Councillor Speakman to second all those in favour, please, thank you very much.

4 Refresh of the Council's Children, Young People and Vulnerable Adults Safeguarding Policy 2023 and general update

showing numbers.
thank you.
Lydia
so moving on to our
yeah Fisher moving on to our 18th item of business, so I have agreed to bring forward item 18 to the first item on the agenda because we have.
guests with us, and it would be, I think, unfair of us, to ask them to sit through the meeting.

18 Solar farm Opportunity - Lympne

or all the way through, just to get to Item 18, the solar farm opportunities in limb, so if everyone's OK with that, I'll take yes, sober, so item 18.
in response to recommendations 2 and 3 of the Cabinet report see oblique 23 oblique, 17 off the add, a 12th of July 2023 multiple park LLPs undertook to explore the opportunities of a solar farm at Lynn and to complete the soft market testing and options available to the Council.
the report which is attached sets out the results of the market testing and makes recommendations on the next steps.
if you look through the report, you'll see there are a number of businesses expressed an interest, the results are all laid out for you there and.
what we're now, what we're now discussing this evening is to give authority to officers, to take those negotiations to the next stage and finalise the offer from the tenderers, obviously there's a lot of information there, I'm sure there might be some questions but on happy to move this motion.
I'm looking for a seconder.
Councillor Scotland, to second, thank you very much.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:05:09
it is now open for debate.
Councillor Swaton.
yes, I was, I declared.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:05:16
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:05:19
I am a ward councillor that covers the welfare and parking is proposed, I just wondered if, if I will use a query as I come across.
from local residents
if the current proposal could be considered, if you like, as plan A in the event that planning permission is not forthcoming.
what it is, is there a plan B
is there a plan B for for this for this proposal, if you know, if I suppose, if it, if it doesn't get through on planning as it, whereas is there another option I mean my sense is that probably this plan is is partly, this is the plan I don't think there's any other alternative options as far as I'm aware, but I just wanted to confirm that.
yeah I, the the 0 your microphone, still on, I think yeah so yeah, in
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:06:12
terms of in terms of this site, this location. If, if planning isn't forthcoming, then then yeah effectively, we have to think again in terms of a plan B. The the overall plan is to get as much solar excuse me as much solar generation. Inaudible, as is possible, there might be options available to us as we go further than a line, but at the moment this is the issue we're dealing with at the moment. So in terms of a
plan B, or a different location, and a different set of ideas, et cetera, we will consider that when we when we've exhausted plenty,
Councillor Smith, sorry, second last question.
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:07:02
I another one that comes up is that surely with all those houses you would have enough solar if you know why couldn't you just get solar panels on all the houses and then that would that would generate you enough electricity without needing solar panels, yes, I think one of the concerns that is on arable land or probably on arable land,
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:07:25
for sure, as I understand it in our annual your from your own sort of ideas around yeah, the article development, but my emphasis will be to get.
solar on as many rooms as is humanly possible now.
the there might be some hurdles with that in terms of the shape of the roofs, some hurdles with regard to the orientation of specific roofs, but ultimately I would like to see audible park maximise the solo opportunities in terms of Russ.
schools or health centres or et cetera, dear the advantage it appears to me in reading the papers is that this solar array puts it in front of that curve, the the problem that we have is that, particularly when the construction period is ongoing,
we will always be chasing our tail in terms of providing energy.
and what I like about this is with the clever use of.
the array and the batteries is that it puts us in front so that you know pretty early on, we will be able to claim you know a net 0 or carbon free development.
the other advantage is that, because we will be plus in terms of energy production, we will be able to use some of that carbon-free electricity in terms of our construction activities, and one of the one of the the biggest criticisms that we get is the embodied energy in in building.
and in one small part this will, this will seek to address that, so you know I I I, I see this yeah, I are in quite a positive light with regard to the the arable land question that the paper loss my understanding is that the
the rows of solar panels will be spiced such that you know they will create wildlife corridors, or should you wish to continue to to great shape in inner in those fields, so so it it won't substitute.
entirely, but the kind of the the the backstop, if you like, is thereafter.
20 years or whatever it might be the the with the an solar production on the roofs in article, it may be that this array isn't required and can be taken away and the field revert to groin winter barley. So so that's that's sort of my reading of it, and I'm very very happy to to join in the discussions around that. But in terms of what we've got to agree tonight, I think it's well worth asking the officers took on or finalise the package, finalise the deal and then come back to us with chapter and verse on that. Is that a fair reflection, Andy
feel free to feel free to add or dig me out of a hole if the, if I've got myself in the one.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:10:56
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:11:00
nothing I was absolutely finding other colleagues failing to have offers for sale.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:11:08
well, I haven't made a mistake so far, so I'm happy with that Councillor Scotland,
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:11:15
I just like to say how exciting I was to read this item. I think that is a wonderful opportunity in the long term commitment, which is expressed in paragraph 1.2 to have some sort of form, which is a director on the new direct link to the new smart grid, independently owned as part of a vision which I think is really important for our people, and one which I recognise that there is going to be a downside. There are always a downside and the land around Dr Paul is that Ayovi land and certainly visible from near Newby, so that is something we can never escape from, but it's only I say only, but it's a relatively small site at 55 acres. I think if I got the figure right
45. Thank you very much, I've been corrected already, even smaller than I thought, and it can be dismantled, my only question is, I may, have missed it in the papers. I think the one of the great advantages of something like this as it can come on stream quickly is not a long lead time. I just wondered whether we knew
let's say from when planning permission is granted, how long it would be before it could be in production.
I think if, if all things were equal, it could come on stream very, very, very, very quickly, but obviously it links with the with the production of of the buildings which is linked to the installation of the infrastructure, and it is the infrastructure that is the really big ask or at article so.
also he got a better idea than me.
thank you, Chair, just to serve representative, for the preferred bidder. I can agree that in this district, the development on its planning consent has been granted. It's very quick to deploy and can be employed in phases as well, so we can construct elements of it to meet the needs of the construction and then the buildings as they come on stream. But I think you're right in terms of recognising that the the wider infrastructure needs to come on stream at the same time, so it's the subject of planning and that infrastructure, but it can be deployed quickly. So thank you very much. So as a key part of a jigsaw for a sustainable vision for a garden town, I really want to support this move is appropriate
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:13:32
Councillor Bryter, thank you Leader, I am also very strongly in
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:13:36
support of the paper which, in front of you for a number of reasons, firstly, it's a competitive bidding process, that's been held here and it's been tendered, there were three bidders and for those who haven't read the papers, I think it's really clear.
that?
there is one front running bidder there, with chap makes a considerably bigger return, so there is a rota financial cash return to Otterspool Park from the moment it starts.
and that is larger than from anyone else.
which is nice, but what's actually exciting about bitter ones against others is that it's a local system as well as the local system which actually generating local power for local people moving moving into a neighborhood, their legal gentleman neighbour, I shouldn't make however that's it, it's it's great to see we talked about multiple Park.
being a net 0 development.
and yes, local residents can be entirely right if that obviously will put solar panels until I'm sure that the developer will have solar panels on the roof of everything, but that you can that doesn't necessarily cover 100% of the of the energy that you have in house anybody who's got solar panels on their house at this moment will also still be getting a power bill some of the time.
Even in conventional houses, even for that sort of central heating, because that's gas and stuff, though, and in this in the context of possible park, and there will be no gas, therefore they will be heating the houses with electricity and therefore there will be that solar panels on houses alone would not cover the power cost of the houses on themselves.
but actually with the solar array, which could generate about 50% of the power needed for a tipple park across with that and solar panels on the roof, you get pretty close to in residential, to in the residential, actually being 100% powered from local,
so.
in discussions earlier I am not going to say the splendid Gary gave I was speaking to Gary about this earlier, the good thing about be able to bring the power online quickly is that currently, if you're going to be doing that big infrastructure and building those houses, et cetera you're going to be moving things around in diggers and inglorious and stuff like that and you're gonna be digging holes and things like that which normally you would diesel power which are louder and louder and heavier and uglier for the environment if you've got that much power to hand rapidly you can be doing some of that construction with electric.
some, I'm not going to get into discussing that at what scale you can't power to go with electric, but you can do some of that work with electric again, reducing the construction power costs there as well. So I think in terms of the bidder which has been selected in the paper is clear and the papers which we have been presented with but which were not discussing them publicly this evening, make it very clear that bidder 1 is a better option. I think that the proposal in itself of making multiple park, actually a genuinely good opportunity of being a net 0 carbon fit the town village. I think that is a remarkable thing to be able to do
it's absolutely right that it is dependent on the planning permission and it will go through the proper planning process and be dealt with with the glass walls that we put in place with that in order to make sure that that is done in the right way, but I think it is an exciting project I think that the way that it will work with the local grid that it will actually save people who live their money as well in terms of it it will be they will get electricity cheaper than if they were buying it from somewhere else and these are all huge benefits.
to the area, so that's why I'm happy to support this this evening, thank you very much, anyone else, were I a Councillor for thank you,
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:17:33
Chair just a side note in a sense.
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:17:36
Councillor Hollingbery approached me yesterday just asked me to mention that she'd been approached by various residents of limb with concerns about the potential for for this being put in place, and I would say that we will have the opportunity to look at the detail of these plans on the planning side of things and that people will have the opportunity to give their feedback and hopefully make suggestions at that stage.
but are fully worth as I've been asked to noting that now, so that people are aware that there are concerns likely and that we should do
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:18:12
our best to address them, yeah they aren't thinness a really important point, thank you very much, Councillor Fuller,
you will note from my introduction, there was plenty of hope toes, and you know that if I you know what we want to do with this with this item, that's before us is to ask officers to nail down some of those issues so that we can tell residents,
exactly?
yeah, the Mike O'Connor fudgy language would woo don't will then not be necessary because we'll we'll know precisely, so I think that's a really really important point and one your residents should have confidence in in the fact that we will be coming back to them or through the planning process and and yeah seeking their their exact and detailed views.
is there anyone else wishes to chip in on on this night, so we have a proposer, may we have a seconder, Councillor Scotland, all those in favour, please indicate.
thank you very much everyone, so just a word to our guests, do feel free to to go, but if you do want to stay one listens yeah well done.
thank you very much, everyone so.

4 Refresh of the Council's Children, Young People and Vulnerable Adults Safeguarding Policy 2023 and general update

the next item, then, is yes, it's number 4, a refresh of the Council's
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:19:38
children or young people and vulnerable adults Safeguarding Policy 2023 and General update pages, A 13 2 52, and it is gonna be introduced by Councillor Mike Blakemore lecture to introduce this item.
the Council's safeguarding policy covers all the key duties and responsibilities relating to our statutory obligations to safeguard children, young people and vulnerable adults, the policy is refreshed every two years to take into account changes in legislation and new practice.
the report before you tonight outlines the key changes made to the policy since the last refresh in autumn 2021.
it also sets out some of the key safeguarding activity carried out, including handling of safeguarding concerns, as well as audits carried out on the Council's approaches to both adult and child safeguarding. I'd like to highlight the work of the latest adult safeguarding audit that took place over the summer and autumn this year. The Self Assessment Framework document is extensive and requires a very large amount of information and evidence to be populated and embedded within the document, following an assessment by a peer panel review the Kent and Medway Adult Safeguarding Board notified us in November that the quality of the self-assessment return for the District Council was of a very high quality and an example of best practice in this completion. In addition to the practical aspect of report completion, members were impressed at the examples provided as these evidence how safeguarding and learning from reviews
and other intelligence has led to practice improvements, Overview and Scrutiny, considered a report on the policy on the 14th of November and provided a few additional thoughts, including adding more detail to our website on how members of the public report safeguarding concerns. USC also felt it useful to add to the website some anonymous case studies of the types of safeguarding concerns that have been dealt with. This would aid better understanding of the types of issues that can be reported so early in the new year. Those changes will be made to the website. Those additions
any questions.
how would someone like to propose?
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:22:03
thank you, Councillor Mowat, when somebody second wanting to make Councillor polyp like once a second, and it's now 11 50 by Councillor Fuller.
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:22:13
just that is really excellent report and a really detailed policy, and I think the the additional detail on sort of types of harm and the various acts that cover the that are covered in the policy really useful, there was just a couple of things that maybe could be considered for future revisions, one thing I noticed in part 6 explained training.
and in the sort of the first part, it references staff and councillors, but then doesn't really specify which category of training you'd expect a councillor to partake of, as it were, so maybe we could just sort consider that in future so that members make sure that they do the right training at their own level and so on.
I know there was the the flowchart for.
which one was it, the the the the other is the self-referral flowchart, but also the the procedure for members of the public that that flowchart effort was excellent.
him, and it may be that it's not included, this is included in the private version, but a useful flowchart for members and again potentially staff members might be, it could be that members have access to the private version, I'm not sure because of obviously IT changes since the last administration.
so potentially that could be.
useful and the the the the other thing that came to mind as well, obviously there's examples of what harm it is, but they are, they didn't seem to be, and again this could be in the case studies may be but they didn't seem to be examples of,
potential behaviours that might indicate a safeguarding needs, such as things like self injury, and so on, that maybe they there could be a non-exhaustive list, obviously because you can never have one, but just a few list of a few potential things to look out for the again could be made available to the public or councillors or or members of staff so but other than that I thought it was a fantastic piece of work and,
yeah, well done to the officers and staff on him involved.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:24:20
Geoff any further contributions on are, I'll just say I, I had the opportunities and great pleasure today to a walk around the town with our police force, and I was taken to the Ask Angela room, which is all about safeguarding and a fantastic addition to the town, so you know, I've I've seen myself today this this policy, your you know his predecessor in action and excellent
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:24:57
I understand that Joanna is able to give us the benefit of her great expertise in response to Councillor Fuller's queries.
Jyotsna Leney - 0:25:05
thank you, Chair, Councillor Fuller, yes, the PR, the the version that we use.
as staff and can be made available to members will have the proper flowchart for designated officers and for people who are not designated officers, so the detail is in there, I take your point about the types of training because there's different sorts that are offered so we can categorise all of that and lay that out in future revisions, so that's a really good suggestion.
I thought there was some information in there on types of behalf or behaviors that or things to look out for like bruising that kind of thing, I'll isolate it out and I'll I'll check it, and I'll let you know where that is all right, thank you.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:25:54
thank you very much, Joycean, are there any other contributions?
we have a proposer Councillor Mike Blakemore, and we have a seconder Councillor Polly Blackmoor all those in favour, please indicate.
thank you very much.

5 Quarter 2 Performance report 2023/24

its next item is number 5 quarter 2 performance report.
20 to 23 oblique 24 pages 53 to 84 in your pack and the introduction is Councillor Tim Bryter.
Councillor Pryor,
thank you, Leader.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:26:31
reports for the update of the second quarter of the year through to the end of September 2023, and it's important that the Council continues to assess how are we doing against the priorities which were set for this Council in the corporate action corporate plan that plan will be refreshed.
I really hope next year.
and so there will be.
different priorities at that stage and different things that we will want to measure the Council's performance against.
but I think it's essential that we continue to know what we're doing at the moment, I'd also like to thank Gavin for his work and his ongoing work on the performance report and the improvements and in the formatting and presentation of that report, which I think it was noted by the Finance Committee.
last week.
if becoming clearer and clearer, it's a really good report to its really good report, to be able to read it's very clear in terms of not only how we're doing and yes, there is there are things that we are doing which are green and things that we are not succeeding in not targets and we are not hitting which I read and it's so it's important to note those as well, but also the direction of travel or whether we're getting better or worse on those things, and I think that that the report is now format in a way which makes that really clear.
there was, of course, discussion in the Scrutiny Committee about those items generally, focusing on those items where we which are red, where you're not into those targets and then put other important thing about our plan, is that it doesn't just doesn't just market where there was you're succeeding or not succeeding or whether you're getting better or getting worse but what's being done about it so where it's ready it gives that description it gives that,
and give that descriptive of what's being done, where the issues have been recognised and how they are being addressed.
darling, it's it's a very helpful piece of work, it's something that we should all keep we all all councillors should be.
watching and keep an eye on it will be a slight, it will change as the corporate action plan changes in terms of measuring, but I am very happy to propose.
and do you have a seconder?
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:28:46
yeah, Councillor 4 thanks very much so.
please do feel free to debate.
sorry.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:28:59
Councillor Blackman.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:29:04
yeah, I also found a very clear report that gave a really good picture, but what's going on?
and things that are hitting their targets, exceeding their targets in several cases, are not quite getting there, one thing that concerned me was the ongoing issues of data breaches due to delays in surface areas.
I think one that should have been reported to the information commissioner's office within 72 hours wasn't picked up until a month after the resident had e-mailed, and I believe that's down to an issue with him inbox monitoring, but on the plus side it's really good to see that the green business squads scheme take-up is on target with three new approvals and five applications in the pipeline so yeah, thank you for the hard work on that.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:29:54
Gavin Edwards - 0:29:55
Gavin you're going to respond on that, thank you, thank you for that Councillor Blake, more obviously with regards to acknowledgment on the inboxes there, I'm obviously having further conversations with the information governance specialist on that There is some analysis, work that I understand he's been happened to be undertaken on those general service in boxes as well, to understand where some of those those blockages will be around those breaches as well is an awareness issue. I think that we are consistently raising with staff. There will be some further training that will happen in the new year with staff around data breaches and the processes of how to report those breaches as well. So there is stuff in hand that we are continually trying to do to make sure that we minimise
as many of the breaches as possible that that happens, so thank you for that.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:30:41
thank you very much. Councillor Price, yeah, just very briefly, and that you're absolutely right, it's not good to that, there are data
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:30:45
breaches there. It is much better, though, that we see that they are where where there are failures. We're acknowledging that it's a failure and it is it is being worked on in departments, it is being worked on across the council, is a priority area and it will be, it is being addressed
but you're right, it's concerning.
but that's the that's. The purpose of these reports is to bring forward that information in year, otherwise you end up at the end of the year and orders who drops in or something on it and you suddenly find stuff we can see it. We agree that it's a priority. We agree that it's a problem, we agree it needs addressing it is being addressed and hopefully we will resolve it in as much as one can it's a really difficult to target the ICO data reporting target just on the way that the
that the data flows of speed that you have to report yourself within 72 hours is quite difficult to identify the problem is sufficient for a brief chance to refined it and to report it, but we can do better than that and we are trying to do better than that.
thank you very much, anyone else got anything to contribute, so we
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:31:52
have a proposer and we Councillor Bryter, and we have a seconder Councillor Fuller, I seem to remember.
all those in favour, please indicate.
thank you very much, everyone.

6 Oportunitas progress report 2023/24 To 31 October 2023

and adjust as we move on to Item 6, the opportunity progress report 2023 24 to the 31st of October 2023 pages 85 to 1 1 8 in your pack and Councillor James Butcher has ridden over the hill to our rescue.
well, well done, Sharif's, and I'll hand it over to you to introduce OK, thank you very much, Chair, and apologies for late arrival.
Cllr James Butcher - 0:32:42
just to give an overview of the report, so it gives you an update on the property portfolio, gives you a revised outturn for last financial year, so 22 23, gives an updated forecast for 23 24 and then gives some details about the review into the company's financial structure and performance, so just to have a quick look at those in turn,
so the update in section 2
from last time is, as I understand it, all the flats in the Royal Victoria hospital to are now tenanted and that's bringing in a monthly rental of over 19,000 a month, which means that next year there will be an annual income just from that development of 230,000, so it's a really positive uplift to the rental income for the company.
section 3 gives you the update for 22 23, so the provisional operating profit, sorry, section 3, looks at 22.23 last financial year, so that's revised down the operating profit my understanding is that those are more accounting issues rather than fundamentals of the performance of the company.
section for an update on our forecasts for 23 24, so we're now expecting an operating profit of 94 k, however, that's only because 103,000 pounds worth of interest that was still being paid this year will be paid next year instead and of course what that means is an impact on the benefit, or rather the cost to the Council. So last time we reported the figure was a deficit of 111 k, that's now gonna be 214 k, so those concerns Councillor Prater, that you were raising last time. I guess we have in bold and double underlined
the company is gonna be taking a cumulative loss into next year of 254,000, given the increase in rental income we got, it looks like that's probably gonna take about two to three years to clear so clearly all of that raises some pretty significant questions about the operation of the company and its impact on council finances, so it's very timely that we've got the piece of work that and another have been leading on to commission, a piece of work to look at how we structure and operate the company you'll see in section 2.4 some bullet points about what that report is going to focus on, I guess for me the exam question is how do we make sure that the company is profitable?
on a sustainable basis and that it's providing a net benefit to the Council on a sustainable basis.
I think for me, as part of that it'd be really helpful if we got some advice on a dashboard of metrics that we could be looking at it in a very straightforward way, both as board and for you as Cabinet, so that we could see him one place, what are the clear measures of the performance and viability of the company and to look at accumulative position so that concern about this year's cost to the Council, I guess we want to look at in the context of performance over the last few years I think,
just the last thing to say is that I think it'd be helpful this time next year to be able to give you a forecast for the year ahead, which were not in a position to do this year because of the election, then a new board coming on board perhaps a little bit further behind than we might otherwise like to be, so that's a quick summary and clearly very happy to answer questions if there detailed financial ones although it will be better place, I guess to answer them.
well, thank you very much, Councillor Butcher just click off your
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:36:35
Mike, thank you very much, Councillor Buchanan is excellent.
should we go straight into the debate dude, are there some questions to ask?
Councillor Procter.
thank you, I just wanted to thank echo Councillor Procter under these
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:36:53
circumstances or James.
I was, you're sat there with a different hat on, but thank you James, for presenting that report and addressing the concerns that obviously any Councillors gonna have in terms of how opportunities for 100% owned company of this Council
interact, but the finances of this Council, what's really good to see is that, despite the fact that, due to those adjustments in terms of when payments are made, et cetera, despite the fact that it does mean that there will be a increased 200,000 pounds just over,
input from this Council into opportunities as this year, as it are as eventually there, this is a company which is worth 2 2 million pounds more now than the Council has invested in need.
assuming property valuations, which is not something that you shouldn't do until you've sold it, but still so there isn't in, there is the the work which has been done, an opportune task, A gives us an asset, a very real asset to residents and to the district in terms of well maintained properties which are being let at reasonable rents to local people are and that's really important in itself and it's not something in that doing that at market rents is something which is important.
but we can do is that that helps us regulate the market to an extent it helps to give a benchmark that I think it's an important thing against the, but also it is generating something of a value to this district financially of value to the district as well I'm a piece of work which is gonna be done over the course of the next few months in terms of how to get that balance right and I entirely entirely take the point yeah, that's exactly the right job.
to be done,
there is, of course, a cost of doing that, and I understand that you know, I understand that about 20,000 pounds in terms of getting some external advice in other than that because there just isn't another accountant around the building at the moment that could do that piece of work in excess of this, I say Wait where you can't do that where you can't find the in-house resource to do it, you find some external resource to do, it seems to me very logical.
and I accept the point and I very much look forward to the options coming back and to making sure that that improved and ongoing financial return to the both the company and to the council is shared equitably in future, and thank you very much happy to move the report if that helps us.
as has anyone else mow at Councillor Shoop?
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:39:28
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:39:30
I was just going to second that and wanted to re, reiterate as well that yeah, I think it's really useful function, the opportunity can provide as being a you know, a really good landlord in that sector of the market, so thank you thanks for the report.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:39:51
thank you very much, I I would just like to add, I can only reiterate what a Councillor Butcher has suggested, which is some very clear metrics on this.
yeah, for those of you who don't know.
Councillor Butcher is the is the Harold bearer of a clear communication, so I am it would be very, very helpful with if I think he described it as a dashboard of just simple metrics and and on complex issues that we often have to consider that involve money, or I think that could be really really helpful for for yeah Councillors who who aren't you know trained to to read a financial profit and loss and and balance sheets et cetera, so it's hard I think that'd be really really helpful, so
yeah, that's right, so so any more for a debate, any further contributions, note we have a proposer Councillor Bryter, we have a seconder Councillor Shrew all those in favour, please indicate.

7 Options Report on whether to continue to maintain Kent County Council (KCC) owned grass in the District, which is subsidised by Folkestone & Hythe District Council (FHDC)

yeah, thank you very much, everyone, thank you very much, James do feel free to go, you don't have to hang on to until the bitter end, thank you.
moving on to item 7 options report on whether to continue to maintain Kent County Council owned grass in the district, which is subsidised by focusing hard District Council pages 1 1 9 2 1 2 8 in your pack.
and I understand that there Councillor Speakman is going to lead us
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:41:35
through this yeah, thank you very much, Chair yeah, I suggest this is it outlines basically leave the current arrangement which can Kent County Council to move into in rural and urban verges and the financial implications for this Council.
more destructive these.
originally, well, they are Kent County Council responsibilities which, in the sense of being contracted back to us and under the various options that we've outlined in the report for consideration, is an exercise to reduce budgets in line with the you know the the budget saving exercise we've been through.
and is particularly affecting the grounds maintenance department, which currently undertake all highway verge mowing across the district, as I said, under contract to Kent County Council Highway Services, so under this contract we carry out carry out mowing a rural urban highway, verges rural highway verges, visibility and suede cuts and undertake the annual maintenance of shrubs and hedges at the moment is currently operated to a deficit.
because essentially we subsidise or leave the KCC contracted out option to us if you'd like to get a higher standard, so we.
we come up with six recommendations to reduce the grounds maintenance budgets.
obviously, we want to absolutely try to maintain acceptable levels of service whilst achieving the aim of reducing costs and on, and there are a number of options, not least number 3, which is, you know, do nothing essentially.
our other, you know just ha handle, rather holding the handle service back to KCC, which I think would be.
if we did that immediately, we would find that we would have quite a drop in in service delivery, so the idea is that for we are, if you go for a date on that option, to a which would,
result in a saving of about 17 and a half thousand and reduce the rural suede cup from to.
to the KCC standard of 1 and also, if you look at option 5, which is that we decide now to defer the decision for consideration would be given to hand back the the whole KCC contract in 12 months for the 35 26 financial year, so that allows time for the negotiations to be arrangements all that sort of thing restructuring of our and grounds maintenance team.
to do that, the other thing also is option 4, and this is set out in a table which might be hopefully, about a chance to read on page right scrolling down page 127, which sets out how those options are or are worked out but essentially option 4 does suggest that you might want to consider that.
as a means of
some funding towards high-profile areas like the levelling up area.
to maintain standards there.
so.
I officers, I'm sure, are open to questions, thank you very much.
thank you very much, so so this is rather complex stuff and the
and I wonder.
just just to I mean I can run through that table, if you want me to say for sure that I was going to ask Andy if you could just help us with this deferment.
idea, I guess I get all of the options, but where does the weather's the idea of the deferment for one year while we, while we differing right, so for absolute clarity, because I know Councillor Pryke was going to ask in a minute?
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:45:38
as per the addendum, just for absolute clarity. This is to make the decision on giving the service back to KCC now, but deferring the implementation of that for a period of 12 months. So just about clarity is another reason for doing that as the number of complications, first and foremost procurement for KCC procure if cases are going to go to procurement now it's a very tight timeline. Bearing in mind there's gonna be TUPE implications, so the potential transfer of staff, a very tight timeline, to have that service up and running by April next year, so they might just about get through procurement, but whether a contractor, whether it's awarded contract to set up and mobilised by the 1st of April, there's a real risk that the grass won't become in Folkestone hot district until May potentially June.
if we went down that route now, so that is the main reason, so the point of deferring that is to give KCC plenty of time, to run that procurement exercise and get a contract to mobilise up to speed and ready to come and perform the service proposing a hive district.
the second reason is to allow any transfer of staff to take plenty of time and for us to work through that process.
and retain any good stuff that we would want to keep here, because Staffordshire gave a good grounds, maintenance staff in the district is getting harder and harder, so to retain, and you could start that we can work through ways of doing that. Those are two main reasons and then also if op, if members are minded to consider some of option 4, I think it is which is to retain some of the higher profile areas, and the the example we used in the report is Station roundabout so obviously we've got all the loft work going on, do we want to then give key pieces of that infrastructure back to KCC, to maintain or do members want to explore that further? It will give us time to allow us to work through that for us as officers, to come up with a list to present to members and say these are the areas that you might want to think about keeping these are the cost implications of that etc etc and we can work through that. So those are the main reasons for deferring the decision
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:47:44
I know it was complicated, I'm really glad I asked her Councillor Bryter, do you want a champion?
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:47:53
yeah, OK, thank you, as the I tend to make clear anomalies just make clear as well, there was some discussion in Finance Scrutiny and I think it was so much scrutiny so little time, and I think it's quite out scrutiny at all because they are about what actually that deferment meant and the addendum has been clear in that so a secretary we're looking at handing back that contract.
effectively 4 April 2020 5, as opposed to doing it for April 2024, which gives KCC long enough to get their ducks in a row. Now there are those possibilities and I know there's a view expressed by Scrutiny and I have some sympathy with it, but one could defer it and think about the question again later, but actually the process needs to start making a decision which allows officers here to have that discussion with KCC and make that work. I think it's important that they go ahead. So despite the fact that I have a lot of sympathy with deferring the decision as opposed to deferring the implementation, I understand why it is doing it at the moment. I can understand that, but we're just that I can get behind agreeing that we will do this, but with implementation deferred until April 2025 in terms of option 2 A
whereby soak for this year we would continue to provide the urban and rural maintenance cuts, but reduce the rural swath cut to one cut rather than two cuts. It's important to say within that that's the suave cut rurally locally, so it'll go from two to one suave cut motley number of people have mentioned to me about visibility, splays and does that impact on safety, etc and the answer is no. The visit the visibility splay cuts remain exactly as they are at the moment, which I believe is three times a year. So people will not suddenly be trying to emerge onto roads with grass in the way of them.
those visibility, splays are, and will continue to be cut to the same frequency, and what it will do is that for rural voters, on the other hand, instead of being cut twice a year, they'll be cut once a year actually a number of instances. That's a good thing right. There are a number of people around here who have yeah that bio, in terms of biodiversity, in terms of ecology, and there are advantages to that happening. you get far less surprised, hedgehogs by surprised, I mean surprised by a mower, is quite surprised and other are ecology as well, so actually there are advantages to that happening in in those rural areas.
so I can accept, therefore, the So approving option to a and going ahead on that basis makes us a small saving next year, 17,018 November, and something along those lines into next year's budget nice to have not going to.
I'm not gonna party about it, but so it is it's good to have that I accept the the.
recommendation 4 that we are approving option 5, I think the fact that we got recommendation 4 to approve option 5 is tautology.
but that we are or are agreeing that that should go back and I and that that work should go ahead, and I would like to see that paper come back out. So under recommendation 6 about the high-profile areas, I think it would be important for us to have a look at that. So, as you say, this would take effect effectively from April 2025. It's gonna be a triangle year we can help a lot of work coming in place there. The lease lift is gonna be opening. At the same time, there's a lot of things going on in that year and it would be it is important that we safeguard ourselves then, so I'd be very happy for us to see a report come back to council committee cabinet, whatever
wherever we are held at the state of that report, comes back to make sure that those high-profile areas are maintained to the standard that we need to see them at that stage.
but on that basis, although I don't like to see cuts in anything none of us got into this for that none of us are sat here because we wanted to make a cut today, but on the other hand, I think that the proposals are balanced and I'm happy to I think second I imagine.
thank you very much here, Councillor Schofield, while everything that
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:52:12
has been said so far about this is something which I can agree with our, I recognise that it's a, the contract is complicated and then I recognise that we've also got the complications of one size definitely doesn't fit all and there are different needs across the area, so those are the two things make it much more complicated.
just I just like to reiterate really the point or emphasise the point that Councillor Peter made, that this is a responsible response to a financial situation which is not of our making and and and, and it's not a comfortable place to be, and we want to try and strike that balance between providing the service which everybody expects and wants to see from us with financial savings which we simply have to make, and this isn't a constructive way to do it. I think it's clear that we can't do it quickly and we need to think about it carefully. I'd ask if we could consider all the officers could take into account no HMO May and how that to adapt to the complications, how how could that be factored in and is there a justice or an option, whether
there is a way in which parishes might express a wish for their area or whether a ward district might express a collective wish for their area or whether we simply have to say all rural areas have a particular approach, nor rural urban areas have a particular approach or whatever but taking into account no no mermaid would take into or give a little bit more emphasis to our national policies and certainly the KCC policy so it would seem appropriate in any discussions for
the deferred contract, but I'm in Italian proposed behind the recommendations which are in front of us. Do we have a an answer with regard to no mermaid
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:53:56
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:53:57
Councillor spinner, I just just to come back on that I'm I'm very kind of was there, I think, when we first came in about this was raised at the time.
logistically, I think for two Andrew, but I think logistically, it is extremely difficult to do that on a kind of you know, because yeah, you're asking groundstaff to cut here but not cut there and it just becomes a muddle, so I think actually,
whilst it's it's it's highly appealing, I think it I think I think you'd be wrong to say that I think it would be easily achievable, I think it's just to clarify I, I asked if it could be taken into account or and that that's exactly the right word certainly yeah I'll end it yes pplicant, thank you, sir. It's certainly something we can
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:54:47
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:54:48
look into, but what I would say is that we're under contract with KCC, we cut the grass to KCC specification, we can pass it back up the chain, I think there might be a possibility of being able to do it on the rural grass, so the rural, bourgeois but urban
there'd be massive pushback on the air, but I can tell because we've approached this before and the logistics as Councillor Speakman has said of not doing something for a month and then having to catch up on it when you're already fighting all the other things that you have to fight in Grounds Maintenance at that time of year with the grimy spot the weather and everything else it would be nearly impossible to dealt with the urban and grass, but we can certainly approach we can certainly have conversations with regards to the urban grass.
thank you OK, anyone else wants to chip in on this debate.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:55:37
and with so many options we are going to need a bit of help here in terms, so you cannot work out what we're all voting for, would you be able to give us some direction here at Councillor Speakman, I will endeavour to do so I think,
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:55:56
while there certainly I am, I am moving recommendation to a which I'm just trying to find at this precise moment in time.
we, all of the recommendations, were moving all the recommendations OK, but I am advised that we're moving all the recommendations.
sorry if, if we are moving all of the recommendations at which options are we, it says, in the recommendations we all know for sure, but it includes all of the options.
I am so sorry if, if you look it, if you look through the recommendations recommendation 1 is to receive a note obvious 2 to note the options in section 5 fine would noted them 3 to approve option 2 A that's what we'd be approving for to approve option 5 so that's the deferment until April 2025.
five that yeah, I might see whether that were done to A and 5, but we then are and he gets on and does the work to do that transfer and six that following back and well working out how to that transfer he then comes back with a piece of paper about the the high maintenance or the high visibility areas.
during the course of the next few months, Greg to say thank you very much for that clarification, I have finally caught up with I'm indebted to Jim on my screen went blank on that once I couldn't find the recommendations, my apologies jolly good, so we have a proposer Councillor Speakman.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:57:25
did we did we get as far as the seconded Gemma did?
no Councillor Pryor or seconded, so all those in favour, please indicate thank you very much.

8 Waste and Street Cleansing contract budget proposals

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:57:43
and into the Sugg number.
ITEM 8 waste and street cleansing contract budget proposals, pages 1 2 9 2 1 3 6 in your pack and Councillor Speakman is gonna lead us to listen.
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:58:02
yes, hello again today, yes, I'm afraid this is also to do with budget savings, but we've looked at it very carefully and hope to actually minimise. Any impact of the proposals in this report are to support the Council budget setting process for financial year 24 25. The eagle-eyed might have spotted in the summer, it says 23 24, but actually it's 24 25 and the report outlines proposed budget savings, incomes and gross options for the financial for that financial year for the waste and street cleansing contract, as you know, is
with a
contracted party for the earlier and the report proposes that the Council seeks to negotiate a contract saving of 200,000 pounds.
all on that contract looks to rationalise the overall number of street litter bins increased in increases to the bulky waste and garden waste fees and a budget growth item to restructure the waste team, it should be said of that contract saving of 200,000 if you look in the report is,
around the street cleansing and what were looking to negotiate with the earlier is that the that's the current standards are in the kindness or high footfall areas.
are currently above national standards, so we will be looking to bring that back to nationally accepted standards.
which would result largely in that in that saving and the rationalisation of the litter bins is because many of them are in a poor state and we would look to that as a process of reviewing where they're placed because I think it's very clear that many of them are not are not placed in the best place and obviously getting rid of the ones that are not fit for use and the increase to the bulky waste particular has been operating at a loss but we're increasing that to three items from one item and that should then be a cost of recovery item.
thank you very much.
and I move the recommendation, good, I say you move the recommendation to Councillor Fuller.
I just had a quick question actually on on the bulky waste.
obviously mentioned in the report that that it could potentially in case a increase fly tipping, but may not be a determining factor, but it also mentioned that, though the district to move to this charging model already, so I would assume there would be some data from Dover as to whether or not it actually had an effect and then hopefully we could actually analyse that before implementing the change or anything.
Cllr Gary Fuller - 1:00:43
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:00:46
is there any data available to renal Andy or Jeremy on what Dover was handed over?
Andrew sorry, I enjoyed the vulnerable knowledge Warner will now tell us.
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 1:00:56
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:00:58
I don't believe there is any sort of day-to-day so when they introduced scheme, which has been several years ago and and and
Andrew Rush - 1:01:05
actually there's been a number of changes in terms of collection criteria, local sort of from household waste recycling sites in that time, so it's duty so isolating data and saying this increases because of this is very difficult to do to be honest with you.
thank you very much.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:01:27
on sorry, Councillor Painton.
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 1:01:33
just a couple of things I wanted to say so on the street cleansing, I think, can we talk before about a relatively modest saving? This is quite a considerable saving and on the strike street cleansing for around 200,000, so that's definitely worth making no one likes to reduce a level of service, but bringing it down to national standards is no bad thing, but I just want to say on the rationalisation of street bins. While rationalisation is also always a good thing, I would hope that would include looking at areas where there is an underprovision of bins, and I think within my own ward in Shorncliffe Heights, for example, you've got large areas of new housing where there won't be bins. I fully accept there will be areas where bins have fallen into disrepair and and and are possibly used any more, but I hope that rationalisation will also include looking with an open mind at where we might need to provide bins in the future.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:02:27
yes, certainly Councillor Schofield. I see this as part of a bigger picture, which of course it is, and it's been carefully crafted by the
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 1:02:32
officers and and and relevant portfolio holders to find creative ways of reducing costs while maintaining services at a basic level. I think it's a CA. I welcome it for that point of view. Nobody Welch is pleased to see prices going up, but these are modest increases. And yes, we won't be able to maintain quite the same level as before, but we know the situation we are in and it's not of our making, but there are some other things going on around this whole agenda, which I just like to flag up. One of them is the way in which local community groups and and parish is getting together for things like litter picks which are creative ways of bringing people together and improving the environment and engaging everybody, and I think that's a worthwhile thing to note. We are actively engaged with local community groups on electrical recycling. Again, it's not going to make a massive difference, but it makes a significant difference, and it gives people the chance to do the right thing, which then spills over in other directions, so we may not be able to provide the same service as we did in previous years, but there are different ways of approaching it and I think there's an opportunity to turn this into a creative moment rather than saying it's you know, we're just going to did not do it so well and leave it at that, so there are opportunities which people can get behind and I'd like to just like that up. I thank you very much.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:03:54
Councillor Scott from anyone else, what Councillor Peter well, obviously,
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:03:57
this is a different, this is the the more difficult of the service cut papers and I know that Jeremy and Andrew and yeah have agonised about this.
the interesting thing, and it was flagged a little bit again in Scrutiny last week, is that the zone Z at street cleaning is to a higher level of street cleaning than the rest of the district, so some roads in zone Z which is police and bits of in central Folkestone and Hartley High Street are cleaned to a higher standard than other roads in Folkestone town centre and in East Folkestone Harbour, water in Sandgate and in the rest of Hyde etc who knew,
I haven't particularly seen that different level of standards actually I would never have been able to walking across Folkestone, say I'd seen a different level walking from road to road in terms of street cleaning, and essentially what this does is that says that the same level of street-cleaning should apply across the entire entirety of the district effectively and that we should be aiming for clean streets everywhere, I can't have a problem with that.
I can't say you know, I I, I can't say that particularly I walked down Bouverie Square, which is apparently one of his own read and think that it is much clearer, much cleaner, the Bouverie Road West, which isn't.
I don't think I've ever noticed that so if we can make a contract savings and negotiation at that stage to
level the street cleaning contract across the entire district I don't pay or across those areas I don't have one or an issue with that and I I think, that done sensitively I I don't think people are going to suddenly notice a are at huge and significant difference on that.
what is interesting within this, though, and it's because there's a negotiation to be done in negotiation with the earlier to be done, is that it talks about the 200,000 pounds saving it talks about it a lot, but that's absolutely not gonna be a cashable saving for 24 25 we're not gonna get to 2 April and say right we can take 200,000 pounds out of the budget for next year I'd love to
but I have of the Veolia aren't going to be able to shrink the team in that place. There are to be issues there, there are. They're the that they're aiming to scale that contract back in terms of doing that, and there are issues around doing that. I think, therefore, that we should be, I don't think we need to write it into the recommendations but mindful that a we're talking about 200,000 pounds saving and bringing them back, but that 200 pounds and so saving is a full year saving and is unlikely to be realised in 24 25. So if, in terms of our calculations for budget and for NTS's, we're going forward, if we're saying that we should, we certainly shouldn't write in that we're gonna save 200,000 pounds in 24 25 because you would be effectively sacking people as of the 1st of April and make that happen, and that's not the approach that we should be looking at, so if we say 50% in 20 or 25 of that schedule saving in future years, but then in future, years is the full,
a rate of that saving. I think that gives us a reasonable calculating, based on the budget, which gives something prudent to work, with understands that we are gonna, make some saving in the year, but doesn't drive you to doesn't drive you to make the cut from minute one which I understand is not possible anyway in conversations with Andrew I'll I'll just run through some of the money you're going to come back to me on or more than that in a minute Jeremy, I'll promise you
so I think that moves us through one to our recommendations, one two and three, which is essentially, I'm agreeing that we go ahead with it, but we should only write in some of that saving for 24 25, I proved and HMRC will be discussed and agreed, but 50% sounds about right in my head,
where I start to have an issue is around the street bin rationalisation project and the very specific terms that we put that in.
and the flexibility that we rule out in that, particularly as with the street cleansing contract, there is a discussion in there about the impact that might have on bin emptying anyway, and I have something of a science background well, I did it at a level anyway.
and did some experimental science and things, and one of the key things in an experimental science is that if you are testing a proposition, change, one thing and see what happens and then change another thing and see what happens, but if you change two things simultaneously, you don't know what caused the change, you don't know what caused the impact and actually, if you're going to make a contract negotiator, we're going to renegotiate a contract which might impact the frequency of litter bin emptying, then to give ourselves the target of also reducing the number of litter bin. That's the second time are moving two things simultaneously, which might have an unexpected consequence, and we won't know which one caught, which one of those two things caused by consequence, and I'm a little bit nervous about that. That said, I understand the rationale for reducing the total the total number of street bins. I understand, broadly, the sort of number that we're talking about, that we're looking to get back to 700 and 75 800, but I think actually saying 775 is setting a target, that we don't need to wait
we are, we should be looking to rationalise the overall number of street vitamins, I think, setting a number on that is a target that we don't need to set, so actually in recommendation 4 I'd suggest removing the two approximately 7 7 5 bins we're looking at a broadly 20% cut in the number of bins across the area bully removing the derelict bins as you say removing,
and
doubling are larger bins in some places, removing doubled-up bins, et cetera, but I think if you set yourself a really fixed target.
under those circumstances you set yourself the foul
I'd also it says approximately, but approximately 775 is not approximate.
approximately 700 ish, I'd have taken your point, but approximately 7 7 5 no longer allows approximate 5. I actually then have a problem with because I do agree that you're looking for an overall total reduction in Binstock, but we should be doing this in discussion with town and parishes and residents across the area about where those bins are going to come from. But equally where those new Ben bins which Councillor Blakemore is talking about should go, I know a number of sites and have dug hundreds of bags of dog mess out of verges in some areas of Sandgate, where I want a bit, and I'm very happy as a parish council to have the conversation about the totality number of bins in Sandgate and stay there were dot maps and where we can move things around room where we can remove bins from where we can rationalise where we can double up. But I do want two or three new one new sites as well, please, as part of that so in totality, the number will drop, but there will be some move round there, and actually, if you're going to have that negotiation, you're going to do this with town and parishes and residents, and not to towns and parishes and residents than saying that we're not going to put any new bins in until we've reduced bins is not doing with it's doing unto.
so I'd like to remove recommendation 5. I think the fact that we are looking for a net ration or a net reduction in the number of bins is fine. I don't think that we need to tie that to not having new bins. At the same time, I think that you just keep that in you, keep that in your mind, you keep that in your mouth if you're going to put a new bin somewhere, that's OK, but you're gonna have to remove it from somewhere else, but you don't have to fix that, so I will be so I will be looking to remove that recommendation. I'd also, but what I would also say is that that street bin rationalisation, it will take a while. It's not a rapid thing to do, particularly if it could negotiate with tenant parishes, and it talks about a saving. It talks about a cash saving there as well. I don't think that you should think about that. Being a cash saving in the first financial year. I don't think in 24 25, it's one that you're going to move things around, you're going to junk some old bins, you're gonna, move some bins from which are doubles up, etc into new locations. You're gonna have to find a couple of new bins, you're gonna have to have a conversation with people and time it, you're going to do it in May and June as it gets busy, are you going to do it in October or November when it starts to get less busy along the seafront, et cetera, when are you gonna do that piece of work?
if you build yourself in a cash saving in 24 25 on that piece of work, you're going to rush it, you're going to end up with a conflict with that contract renegotiation as well, which which gives that that saving will come in future years. It will come in 2005 26 and later years, when we then got less bins when that rationalisation has been through, but it means we don't have to rush it, it means we don't try and add something to the budget as a saving, which actually isn't likely to be a saving in that financial year, and it allows us to do it in a timed way. That means that the contract changes in zone Z and there have been changes in zones said can be done in such a way whereby we're not creating a conflict and changing two parameters. Simultaneously, I accept the recommendations
with regret, on 6 on bulky waste collection fee, all that does is recover the cost of providing the service.
and I wish the cost of providing that service was lower than we could charge another fee, but if we'd been charged a certain amount of money for it, recharging that same amount of money to do that service seems rational again in terms of garden waste.
it is a, it is an increase as a reasonably significant increase in subscription fee to 60 pounds a year, but actually somebody emptying a bin 30 times a year for you for 2 pounds ago in bad, I speak as a business owner who gets somebody to empty their bins on a weekly basis so I can promise you if I could have 2 pounds to empty that bin I'd have it.
it's interesting, you didn't talk Jeremy to the growth item of 43,000 pounds that you try to sneak into this into this paper as well, but I'm sure you'll come back to that, but so where I would like to see this go is that in terms of the recommendations I accept 1 and 2, I would like to see in three that we are all in three in our minds. We should keep in mind that we're not gonna see it in year we will see about half of the total savings, so if it's a 200,000 pounds saving and a paper comes back, we should only cut account 100,000 into 24 25. I'd like in recommendation 4 to remove the two approximately 7 7 5 bins. We know that we're aiming for about 20%. Just keep that as your earlier target. I'd like to remove recommendation 5
and replace with, but we should accept that we should have no aspiration for a cashable saving on the on the street bin reduction process in 2004 25, it will come in future years, so and then I can leave 6 7 later low, so that's what I'd like to suggest that we do here.
if I could just before I come back to to to to you, Councillor
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:15:20
Suleman, so.
on number 3, so 1 and 2 are fine on number 3, A, it's just really to keep in our minds as it were no specific amendment number 4 you want are effectively, the numbers in brackets are abrupt to approximately 7 7 5 spins to to be omitted.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:15:40
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:15:43
number five, you are asking to have removed, completely remove and
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:15:50
replace with that we would expect no.
2024 25 in-year saving for the street, bin rationalisation project.
expect no saving no in year 2015 year 85, saving for the street bin rationalisation project is, is that I mean it hasn't been included, there is no, it's not in your MCFs at the moment is not there, but it's at this moment the paper makes very clear. It doesn't know what the cashable saving could be in 24 25 because it will take time to do. You don't know where it is. There's a consultation process to go through, just don't care, don't counter saving until you know what that saving is yeah, I'll all it tells me that
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:16:43
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:16:56
yeah, so are I, the Jew, just had this sooner confirmed in inlaid.
to to to say that there is no expected saving, that's the kind of thought as it was not part of a recommendation, we're not recommending that we expect, no, you know that there is not part of or a recommendation.
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 1:17:23
yes yeah or again, going back to your number three, is something
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:17:29
keeping her mind you, you've made the statement, we happily shorten
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:17:34
the time here by saying I'm happy to just delete item 5 and renumber and we'll keep it ahead. Yeah, I I know, sorry so OK, so we've got it,
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:17:42
we've gotta take this
amendment, I think so delete the the brackets from a number 4 and delete number 5 in its entirety, that's the amendment that's being suggested.
for sure, sir, so now we have to come back to the original proposer, Councillor Speakman, to get your comments on that boy, I think on the
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 1:18:17
I mean personally I, I think those those are, you know these are being put forward.
we've had
Councillor Burgess, concerns about it as far as I'm concerned.
that does fine, I think, they're 200,000 issue I'd like to revisit because my understanding is that that's been quite a technical budgeting exercise which I'm I take it as that by the end of 24 25 and I'm looking at Andrew at this point.
we would be getting towards a 200,000 pounds saving or not as if, if that is at my ISA, would that be correct in my understanding or not when I am looking at my finance colleagues, I don't believe we've put the 200 k into the empty purse at this current time no, the 200 has not been included in MCFs yet also we're clear whether we're going to go ahead with it.
that it be noted that aspiration, if we don't put a number of now, they will come to the present house. We don't want them. I don't want us to get distracted here in terms of what were what this is
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:19:28
recommending is a set of measures. Again, the 200 figure that that's kind of advice to to to give us a basis for these recommendations. I think that 0 sorry, Andrew
sorry to drop Charles as okay, it's gonna explain. The purpose of it
Andrew Rush - 1:19:50
is to firstly start negotiation with an idea of having a target of 200,000 pounds, and the second recommendation is, of course, that we would bring it back once we actually know the terms, so because it's a frontline service, so to cabinet could to understand it, so I don't think we could really committed to hundred k at this point, I don't believe that Finance have put it in there and I would suggest that the time to commit to a saving would be once the the second stage had been
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:20:23
reached yet ice so iii absolutely d are effectively the recommendation is to enter formal negotiations around this.
sorry, Councillor Bryter yeah, which is I haven't put a number in that
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:20:35
state. It was keeping the 100,000 of them, and it certainly was but the 200,000 pounds. It's talking about it's a 200,000 pounds per year saving on the capital contract cost effectively. With what we'd be saying is that the negotiations gotta go away and happen, it will then come back to Cabinet with discussion, and at that moment there will be a taper in terms of how that saving comes in over a period of time. We only want to turn round and say right. As of the moment, you have that cabinet discussion with not 200,000 pounds of your contract, just ain't gonna be the way it's gonna play, so in terms of putting into our budget MCFs because that paper might come after the budget and that would be awkward
would mean that we wouldn't put any saving into 2024 25, which I think would be an overly cautious approach to take, but I haven't suggested putting a number in at this stage on this paper, therefore I'm dancing slightly on the haven't been.
I don't think that the number will be 200,000 pounds but will need to know discuss that when Andrew gives a bit more guidance when he started those conversations and we can put ayman veranda which I think is gonna be more like half of that for the first year for instance feels like a better, I think or our position is that the
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 1:21:44
recommendation is to enter formal negotiations with a view to
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:21:47
achieving this if we don't achieve it well we were all adults, we've been part of this discussion, we know where we know the situation that we're in.
I think if we if we try and go for kind of budgetary accuracy at this stage before formal negotiations have have begun, what kind of side tracking ourselves and know exactly where he's coming from to him into to get a realistic view of of this burden, but I think we will will just end up in amending on amendments and you know when we were worrying unnecessarily literally didn't amend that put that bullet
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:22:21
point Jim you you are defending a change that I am not proposing.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:22:29
so yeah, for sure, so so effectively we've got the removal of the brackets in 4 and the removal of five in its entirety, and I think you were kind of midway on that Councillor Speakman before we went off on a tangent,
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 1:22:49
I am happy to try to go along with that. I think the I mean we are just looking to rationalise the overall number of street litter bins and leave it at that. That's fine. I have no problem with that and I'm just not quite clear about where we are on the on the on the, but the wording regarding reducing the annual cost of the waste collection contract to 100,000 is that would with a view to reducing the annual cost or is it now no change, we're leaving it as it is? It is
Logan prepare up Farrell.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:23:27
Councillor Bracknell, so I can make a suggestion yet on the bins yeah,
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 1:23:30
it's a rationalise the location and overall number of the bins, because that's what we're talking about.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:23:39
that aspect on number 4, which we're amending anyway, so.
so the further amendment can use.
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 1:23:50
just to rationalise the location and overall number of street litter bins.
to rationalise, I write I've got at Yale.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:24:02
how do you feel about that Councillor spoken, and I'm very happy with a wider one?
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 1:24:07
at what?
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 1:24:13
while attempting we had a second, are we launched straight into debate, so I'm very happy to second Gemma, so we have the
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:24:26
recommendations as they are in in front of us number 4 is being
as amended in terms of the removal of the brackets, and the additional wording, as suggested by a Councillor Blackmoor and number 5, is being removed in its entirety. We all were all clear on on it, so those
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:24:47
recommendations that those are recognised, alterations have been accepted. I think that's great yeah, just you just want to include and renumber after removal five year, so shelving all all that all it
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:24:58
leaves or all its left forests. Still, there is to vote on it, but so long as everybody's comfortable, they know what we're voting on. OK, so are all those in favour, please indicate.
thank you very much.

9 Update to the Medium Term Financial Strategy 2024/25 to 2027/28

Cllr Jim Martin - 1:25:19
moving on to Item 9, I think, update to the medium term financial strategy 2024 oblige 25 to 2027 oblique 28 pages 0 1 3 7 2 1 7 8 in your pack, and this item is being led by Councillor Bryter.
we spoken about this so often that we all know what MCFs stands for now.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:25:43
so good progress.
this has been, this is something that we've been through a number of times and every time we look at another number another projection of this, it starts from the background of the empty AFS set this time last year projected that we were going to have an 18 million pounds deficit over the next four years after huge work by the officers and see all t and every member of staff of this organisation and I'd like to think pretty helpful input from cabinet and scrutiny and council colleagues we are making that number change radically.
so where we are too at the moment is that the MCFs are set out as 1.2 in your paper is now projecting that instead of a 18 million pounds over four years deficit as left to us by the last administration,
we're down to 4.6 million pounds over the next four years, that's 13 and a half million pounds in the right direction.
I don't think we're all the way there, yet, I think that these numbers are going to change, possibly reasonably or significantly a bit more, there are numbers to come out of government at the moment that we can't absolutely quantify.
there has been an explanation that a new homes bonus will be payable to councils, but they wouldn't like to tell us yet what that number is we've got, we know what we got last year, but apparently we won't get that this year, so we're waiting to see at what that number is we'll wait to see what other support might come from government.
in the course of the next week or so, but certainly the deficit surplus figures for the next four years will amend and a revised set of papers will come to you in January and to those numbers will almost certainly not be exactly as on the piece of paper in front of you here.
we are going to need to strive to reduce those deficits further, we've done some of that this evening by some of the changes that we've agreed this evening, already we will have reduced those numbers for, so we are making progress on doing that, the government announcements may also help us do that.
the MCFs, as I said before, that the further into the future you go, the more guessing with style it becomes, I'm I'd like to hope that we're increasing our style and reducing our guessing, but we'll see,
and certainly, as you look into years 3 and 4 of it and you see those deficits go up, take those with increasing pinches of salt yeah, one you could be relatively confident about year two, you can be hopeful about Year 3 and 4 yeah kind of looking into the future and if you can tell me what's going to happen in three years' time you should definitely bet on stuff.
but the projection of the MCFs is are in front of you, we've cycled through it on a number of occasions, it's been through Scrutiny, et cetera, we are moving in the right direction, we are bringing ourselves to a position whereby this Council is in a secure financial position going forward and there are an awful lot of councils that cannot say that.
we are in a good position. I'd like to hope better than this position by the time it sets fully agreed through Council in January and February. We are gonna be in a good position to a be delivering the services that we wanted to see for local residents and to be able to start to look at providing new and building new facilities and building new services for those residents going forward. But you need to get yourself financially stable first, and that's where I think we are getting to. I'd like to a thank the Finance Team for their work on this, be all officers and see all T and staff for their work in making those numbers work because you don't just furnace 18 million quid out of it. You do a lot of work in terms of cutting costs and I'd like to
some of that is a lot of that money is in the transformation process as well, which is ongoing, I'd like to thank the staff for engaging in that process and thank the staff for the spirit in which they have done that and thank those a and thank everybody for continuing to deliver excellent services for the residents of this district, I move the emphasis and recommendations.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:30:27
thank you very much and I would like to second the motion I would also like to add my thanks to the
you know, frankly, spectacular work that's been done around this by the Finance team, but by every you know, every Department in this, this Council, I sat through three days of Star Chamber.
I know how painful it was for lots of people, nobody wants wants cuts, none of us has been said earlier, nonetheless, claiming here into this Chamber, to make cuts, but that's what was set before us and every worry really really took on the challenge, and I think that,
you know, we West yeah these figures definitely show the the the benefits of our efforts.
and you know Louis, there appears to be light at the end of the tunnel, so no thank you to everyone that works for Folkestone and Hythe District Council, because this is a spectacular turnaround, thank you, sorry, Councillor, Scotland.
yeah, I absolutely agree completely.
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 1:31:38
I was listening to a podcast on the elements or the three features which were highlighted in good governance of a council and interestingly, at 1.00 of those three was a positive and supportive culture of the organisation I've been interacting with this Council now for six months and that's it been exactly my experience from the very beginning and I think that that is something that the Chief Executive and the senior officers and right through the organisation can be justly proud of it's a welcoming supportive culture and that culture is a key feature of a well-run council. Thank you all very much.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:32:23
any further contributions will, I've just got one thing to add, is that a Jonathan who is here with us this evening sat through every minute of that chamber, and I and he each he explained everything that I didn't understand in terms of Janet and John you know does accounting,
which I am really really really grateful for, so, but I know that doesn't that single is Jonathan out, but yeah, everybody did such a brilliant job and yeah long may it continue, so so we have a proposer Councillor Price, we have a seconder myself all those in favour please indicate.
thank you very much.

10 Budget Strategy 2024/25

I contain a budget strategy 2024 oblique 25 pages 1 7 9 2 2 1 0 in your pack and again this is Councillor Procter.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:33:20
thank you, I won't labour this as this is year one of the empty efface which you have to prove, but with many more words and more detail it discusses a number of the
bits of logic on which the where he built, discusses the inflation pressures that were increasing, that we're dealing with, we are looking at this budget, we're building towards a council tax increase of 2.99%.
that is against budget pressure that gets inflation, which has been higher than that all the way through the year, so we are going to be delivering a budget that we do have time to take inflation into account.
is actually less in real terms than it was area, and a year ago we thought this stuff was tough.
and that's that's what's important, so not only are we reducing that yesterday, but they were doing so on the basis of a lower.
the the the the increase that we're looking at in terms of council tax is lower than inflation lower than inflation has been over that period.
there's lots of detail in there, you end up looking at this out through this report and you can see capital schemes, et cetera, projections from the different departments and things that we're going to need to buy in order to do stuff so you'll end up with right on mowers and tractor mounted hedge flails which sounds really cool and our capital costs towards various projects including focus to also longer term looking at things like measure centre development and an IT management financial system the numbers which are in there for that are,
guesses prudent guesses guesses with style.
but I think it's it, I think it's reasonable to say that the the numbers which will be put in there give us give us a shape to the budget it gives us, shows that those aspirations are there shows that they are affordable within the the overall scope of that budget but don't look at any of those individual lines as I did and say IT financial management system at 500,000 pounds are you joking, I could get one for less.
cos. I'll do that argument with owners separately, but the same applies to all of these items. You'll look, you're looking at them being a reasonable or a reasonable estimate which, obviously, in terms of expenditure or all of these things, we will aim to undershoot wherever possible. You're going to try and do things cheaper and better than they were there, but it is the line, one of the empty fs. It is year one of the interviews and it starts to give us a budget which, as I said, leaves us in a secure financial position. The Council delivers all of the key services that we demand of ourselves that we deliver, and yet I didn't come into this to make service cuts or cost cuts. I didn't come into this to be part of the voluntary redundancy programme
are to be outlined that the Council, or indeed to put up fees and charges costs, and things like that. We're doing it because we need to do so in terms of making sure that this current this council has a secure financial future and with our passing of this budget going forward and indeed the changes that we will have to make through to February, it's again a not settled document. The numbers are going to change and the numbers that you end up in February will be different to the numbers that you have here now, but I think our direction of travel is really strong.
we're getting to a stage whereby this Council is financially sustainable, does not run out of money in year 3 and can deliver on the priorities that we've all got for it, I move the recommendations and do you have a seconder?
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:37:02
Councillor statement, thank you very much and it's open for debate.
it is a very clear report.
if we can move straight to the vote, then all those in favour, please indicate thank you very much.

11 Fees and Charges 2024/25

moving on to fees and charges 2024 oblique 25 pages 2 1 1 2 2 42 in your pack and it is once again Councillor Bryter.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:37:37
lucky you lucky me, thank you, I haven't got a leg again as.
as we said on the previous papers, we didn't come into this wanting to increase fees and charges.
et cetera, for these things, but that is an important year. Inflation has taken place and we have tried, wherever possible, to keep the rises in fees and charges to inflation or to cost recovery as appropriate, with the exception of items which we have discussed already so garden waste goes up, a garden waste collection goes up by more than more than inflation. On these figures, and also bulk waste collection goes to cost recovery at the moment is being subsidised and it would go to the cost of Cadbury. I'm desperately scanning this piece of paper because in conversations with Connor earlier, the a logical inconsistency that he had pointed out in the paper was still in the paper around the difference on, whereas it green waste, not green waste, Derek Connor, whereas it
as it fixed it.
OK yeah, so there's an addendum put out with the fees and charges which was on green waste collection. The on the annual charge was different on the original version to the direct debit collection. It's now being fixed, so the the figures are in front of you. As I said, I'm sure that we don't we didn't come into this wanting to put up be judged by that, but we are doing so by inflation. We are trying to protect those services out where possible. We are continuing to do things on good piece of, or two good pieces of news. Within this high-school charges remain flat. I understand that there is no inflationary increase. Their swimming is cheaper for adults and children in our swimming pools. N
next year, by the time you take inflation into account.
also, I also ate a small flag for the residents residents, car park permit, which I'll go into an annual cost of 80 pounds a year and are excellent value for the HAP that means that you can park for two to three hours a day every day in district car parks across the district and if you haven't got one as a resident at you should really consider it they are an excellent value scheme and are worth doing, but actually a number of people didn't have 80 pounds of the at the moment in order to get that long term in order to get that same thing, so actually buying. Matt up front was that the the the cost was a barrier to entry for some people, so I'm delighted that we've got aligning here which now allows people to buy that permit for three-month period, so you can buy them for 20 pounds go for three months
and that would save you are potentially hundreds of pounds of parking charges during the course of that three months it pays for itself HMO many times over if you are regularly use our district car parks, and I would strongly recommend that by the 1st of April when we get this in place that if you haven't got a residents on street a residents' car park permit, you should really consider getting one. There are hugely
good value scheme, and it's great to see that we'd be able to just flex that scheme to reduce the barrier to entry, that there would be otherwise I move the fees and charges document and the recommendations in front of you.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:41:12
thank you very much, Councillor Procter, I am very happy to second VAT and open it for debate.
again, is clearly a very clear report, so I'll move straight to the vote, those in favour, please indicate.

12 Treasury management 23/24 - quarter 2 report

thank you very much Item 12 treasury management.
at 23.24 at Quarter 2 report that's pages 2 4 3 to 2 5 8 in your pack and it will be presented by Councillor Peter, I move the
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:41:50
recommendation to receive and note reports, the 23 72 I'm very happy
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:41:54
to second back and can we move to the debate.
OK, that's great, so those in favour, please indicate.
thank you very much.

13 Second home and empty home Council Tax Premiums

item 13 is a second home and empty home council tax premiums pages 2 5 9 2 2 6 8 in your pack and will be led through this by Councillor Bryter.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:42:32
this isn't my fault, I didn't put all of these things on the agenda, I'd like to be clear.
but it comes with a warning January and February won't necessarily be better for anyone concerned.
this is a paper which react to changing government legislation, which allows us to do some things on council tax in and around empty properties, and has had, for some years, so empty properties, either in the district, I think we can all get on the same page that they are a bad thing we want to see properties in use and,
housing people and where properties are empty for a long period of time, we want to exert any pressure that we can in order to get those houses back into use and housing people, and that's what?
the section effectively on premiums for properties empties that the longer a property is empty, not only to be charged council tax on a property as on the property, but we start doing a child premiums, double or treble it, the longer that property is empty, will it change to government legislation? It means that we can actually start that process a little quicker. So the suggestion which is given to in table 2 is that the legislation will allow us, as of the 1st of April 2024, where previously we could only charge 100% premium. I double council tax on a property after it had been empty for two years.
we will be able to charge a 100% premium on properties empty for more than one year as of the 1st of April 2024, this is an incentive for people to get for people who own those properties to get people living in those properties whether they rent it or whether they sell it or whether they live it in themselves, that's absolutely fine and the premium goes away if someone's living in it you don't pay a premium on it if you're keeping a house which is empty.
this Council doesn't believe you should be this Council believes that houses should be park housing people, and that is the intention of that is to use the only mechanism that we have in terms of turn or are encouraging people to do that, so that is what the the empty homes premium discussed in Section 2 of that report is section 3 is legislation is coming in which actually allows us to,
tackle that issue about using homes locally, to house people in a different way, so it discusses second homes.
and there are a considerable number of second homes here.
and without wishing to come over all politics of envy on this, I think on the whole we would prefer that everybody had a first home.
rather than a number of people, would take it at taking those homes as second homes.
so what this does, is it again, it allows us to charge a premium, not from 2024, because the legislation doesn't allow it, but from April 2025 allows us to charge a 100% premium on second homes in the district, now we understand that there might be some people who choose to look at the law on that and work out their ways around that and we can see all of them and we are watching in terms of how people might try and move around that.
but the broad principle is that we would prefer that if people, if what this encouraged was that, instead of paying double council tax on your second home, you disposed of it or you rented it to somebody else to live in it locally or you are sold it for somebody else to buy to live in locally that we'd prefer to see that frankly rather than it being a second home which is used irregularly and he's empty most of the time and he's
ancillary to your first time, this is a scheme has said, which has been brisk enabled by government legislation only in the last few months they've been talking about it for a very long time and we've been waiting for it to happen a very, very long time, but I think it actually cleared in October and is nodding at me. I'm therefore happy at night from memory
and it's expected that it will be brought in, certainly by all authorities across Kent.
and all Kent authorities discussing doing the same thing on the same levels and on the same timetable, I would expect it to happen broadly nationally, having said that, folks on Hive, obviously as a very desirable place to live and a very desirable place for people to spend their weekends there is potentially more second homes here than there are in other areas of the county.
but that is what newspapers ESA, seeks to do, it'll use our levers where we can to a encouraged people to get.
empty properties back into use and housing people sooner rather than later, and from April 25, where we are allowed to do so or are applying 100% premium to second homes, because, frankly, we'd prefer them to see their as first homes for other people in this district so again I move the report.
I thank you, Councillor, Peter Councillor, Fuller, happy to second
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:47:43
Cllr Gary Fuller - 1:47:47
where we go to, I'm very, very happy to open it for debate.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:47:49
at a I'll go round in in the order.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:47:55
Councillor, probably Blackmoor doesn't just a question on the detail, really so on the second homes premium, it looks like.
homeowners are going to be given a year to.
yet get their house in order for want of a better expression, the second house in order even.
on the empty homes and just looking at 2.00.2 it says the amendments have an impact for financial years, beginning on or after April 24, and it does not matter if the start date of the property being empty is before this comes into force, so do they get any notice of this additional premium or is it just going to happen on that date?
yes, I'm not providing this. Obviously it's all agreed today and it
Mr Andrew Hatcher - 1:48:38
goes to Council in January, which is the plan, once it is fully agreed, if it's fully agreed, we'll be writing out to anybody who would go on record that will be impacted by April, so they will have a won't be a year later, and we don't need that under legislation, but they will have a good couple of months to do so before 1st of April comes around, so they will know what is coming forward and suddenly they want something to get their bill and think. 0 gosh my charges doubled, where they will be getting a advance notice beforehand and we were prepared for that once at once. It goes through full Council. That's the plan
thank you very much, Councillor Mike Blakemore.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:49:10
it's really just going to welcome this. I think it's a very, very good
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 1:49:14
step. I know that other councils are already looking at it, we've just been talking about fees and charges, but it's important this isn't seen as an income generator but, as as Tim said, as a lever that we can use as a disincentive, there is a housing crisis in the country and we need to do everything we can to bring empty homes and underused homes back into use, but I'm glad to see in Appendix 2 sensible exceptions to the new roles as they come in as well because of course, people who
I recently bereaved being bereaved shouldn't face this, and people who are trying to sell their home shouldn't be hit with extra charges, while they're trying to do so sensible exceptions but very much welcome it.
I agree very much, yet does anyone else want to contribute?
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:49:56
good or just God, can I see this is a very, very welcome move and
yeah, the number of empty properties, not necessarily all residential, that there are in Folkestone, is a scandalous, and so the more we can get occupied the better.
I completely agree this season income generation or I would like to be in a position where we don't collect any of this money, because all of the properties are are back fully, let that that's the ideal position for us, so with those comments thank you and well sorry, Councillor Blackmore.
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 1:50:43
does the question whether any income raised from this can go towards?
Work to support homelessness in the district or in other ways to support our housing activities.
obviously we we do, we offer.
greatly as much as we can in terms of.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:51:01
supporting at homelessness, so I can't say at this stage John probably broke every rule in the book if I said it was ring-fenced, but there would certainly be a proportion of it that would go, and I think we're all of a single mind here.
that on one hand we've we've got a problem of under occupation and we've got a problem of homelessness and if there is any way that we can link notes to together, well, we'll be good solution or Councillor Bryter.
yeah in 1.8 of the report.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:51:40
sorry, it's a race conditioners whether this agenda meeting finishes before my voice.
the one point in the report, it says that we will explore, using any additional income generated to consider increasing support offered to low households via the council tax reduction scheme. So that's the direction of travel, but it depends on decisions that this Council makes over the course of the next 12 months or so pence on the amount of income which is there. It depends on that being an agreed position across Kent as well, but I think what would be important is to use that additional council tax revenue if we can to benefit those. If, if there is that additional income and as the leader says, if this scheme worked the way that we would dream, it worked there would be no additional income whatsoever, but lots more houses available to local people to live in, but those who are on the lowest incomes are struggling to pay their council tax most, we could use any additional income to support them. More would be that, but that's an aspiration as opposed to a part of the detail recommendations in this report. OK thanks very much so. Can I ask that we go to the vote now, all those
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:52:45
in favour, please indicate

14 Housing Revenue Account (HRA) Business Plan 2023 - 2053

thank you very much item 14 housing revenue account business plan, at 20.23 to 2053 pages 2 6 9 2 3 2 3 2, and it is to be presented by not temperature, it will be.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 1:53:12
Councillor Shrew thanks, thank you the facts as follows.
so this report seeks Cabinet's approval for the Housing Revenue account 30 year business plan, and this sets the parameters of the work and spend undertaken by the Council's Housing Team.
and it underpins every decision that will be taken in the H R E, so the model underpinning the business plan has been developed over the past two years by the housing and finance officers, along with the expert assistance of Adrian Waite from Essex, who has provided us with independent scrutiny to ensure the plan looks both sensible and sustainable over the 30 year period.
members are asked to note and agree the recommendations that the financial plan will be referred to Cabinet as part of the 24 25 budget setting process in February 2024.
that the HRA business plan allows for provision of annual resources of 5 million, based on current prices, to facilitate the delivery of approximately 20 additional, affordable council homes each year during the first 18 years of the plan.
the H are a PR priorities and assumptions used to develop the business plan are included in this paper and those priorities are compliance with all relevant legislation.
delivery of housing management, and that includes repairs and ongoing maintenance of our stock.
meeting decent home standards, and that's means investment and capital improvements to our stock, addressing decarbonisation so that's retrofitting our existing council homes and contributing to delivery of affordable homes with acquisitions and new builds.
the business plan includes assumptions that are subject to future Cabinet decisions on de-pooling of service charges, the fairly and transparently transparently recoup income that's due to the HRA A and a report on this is due to come to Cabinet in the new year.
and also a disposal policy and financial model for assessing the economic viability, of managing and maintaining elements of our existing stock, and this report will also can come to Cabinet in 2024.
so members will be aware that the HRA is a ring-fenced account, it sets out the income and expenditure for running the Council's own housing stock and closely related services or facilities, and it's provided primarily for the benefit for councils and tenants.
the income and expenditure are full financial projections are included in the summaries at Appendix 1.
so, given the complexity of this report and the range of product projects that the the Council Housing Services delivering at a local level and the agendas, it's trying to address at a global level, the fact that the HRA business plan is presented to Members in such a healthy position is a significant achievement it shows that many services are working well together to deliver on providing quality homes and infrastructure for residents.
although this is a long term business plan, it should be mentioned that the report has focused on current circumstances and known factors that allow us to more accurately forecast the first five to 10 years of the plan, however, social housing is a high profile and ever changing environment, and so whilst officers will monitor and amend the model year on year,
it is proposed that a full review will be carried out and reported back to Members at end of year 5.
so I hope Members will agree that this is a highly detailed report that presents a realistic, balanced and sustainable HRA position over the next 30 years and I'd like to thank officers for the huge amount of work that has gone into this plan, as I said over the past two years, so I'm very happy to to move the recommendations. Thank you.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:57:42
Thank you very much, Councillor Sherlock, I'm very happy to second the recommendations, although I do reserve my right to come back and ask some questions so I'm very happy to open it for debate.
a surprise or guess who?
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:58:01
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:58:05
I would like to firstly thank Rebecca and Andy and all officers who've been involved in putting this business plan together, it's been a a while incoming, but it's it's really good to see that it has now been got.
I think that the principles underpinning it are really good and really helpful, we've got him, we are at 3,400 properties across the district, with the largest single landlord in the district by a country mile.
and those houses are let at social market rents, which is broadly half these days of what you could rented property for on the market and is a critical lifeline for residents across the district, and it's really important to remember how important that is, but it's also really important to remember that the business plan underpins it has to be financially sustainable based on that which we know now so.
the business plan, but here in front of us is based on the interest rates that we can foresee looking forward, it is based on the legislation which is in place at the moment is based on what one can expect to be charging in terms of rents over the course of the foreseeable future and all of those all of those factors have been taken into account to come up with a plan which allows for the cost not just of maintaining those properties but improving them, bringing up to the carbon our standards that are required of them of the good living quality standards that we would expect to be renting properties that,
I think it's absolutely fair, though, that we flag, before somebody else, does that under section 4, this is a plan which is delivering about 20 houses a year over the first 18 years of the plan and I'm sure all of us would aspire to higher than that number I'm sure Rebecca would love that number to be 100 or 200 but a bud but the business plan can't make a projection of additional housing based on numbers that don't add up, and you can only borrow to the you have to work out your cost neighbourhood or over a period of time you have to work out what revenue we're gonna get back over a period of time, you have to be able to afford the borrowing during that period of time. There is a whole series of really detailed calculations which go into what is affordable and what you are allowed to do with the H array, and it may be about those 20 additional houses a year.
on top of the 3,400 that we currently own is what can be afforded to be added to the stock or at this moment in time, but that's at this moment in time, with interest rates as they are with rents at NRA rates set as they are with legislation set indices with borrowing costs even for housing being what they are a change to any of those things could significantly change the financial parameters that you're working with and concern to substantially change the business case for building more houses, it could substantially change the business case for building less houses too.
the crystal ball is still foggy on that.
but I'm sure, and it is great, that this is going to be reviewed annually, and I'd really hope that if situation has changed in one year or two years' time.
to substantially impact the ha business case sufficiently that we could build more houses and that they'll be quicker than five years before it is brought back to Cabinet or our successor that if the officers were looking at it and going actually, that gives us the headroom to do much better than that, I know there's nobody in the room that would want to do so more than Andy to be able to turn around and go and do better than 20 the best that the numbers have changed, the facts have changed and we can do better than that, and I'm sure we would all welcome the opportunity to have that conversation if that changes
but you can only write a business case based on the city on the whether Wildey is now, this is the best that can be achieved now on the resources that we've got, so I welcome all of the work done on the plan, I really hope that the world turns in a way that we can.
beat 20 houses at some stage in the future, but we can start on those now with this business, your own place now and start actually getting the work to get both in place, I welcome that, so I'll be supporting this again thank everyone involved in the production of the paper.
thank you, I'm I'm my question was a little briefer, but I think it's
Cllr Jim Martin - 2:02:37
essentially the same, which is this is a very prudent report, I think.
and how optimistic
are you or I, how much optimism can you lead us towards because, as Councillor prior to his outline, I think we all want to do better than this, but you know there are, I can't congratulate you enough on all, because this is where we should start, this is the this is rock solid base to start from one and you know.
but we we do want to do better, so maybe you can just say ha ha prudent, this is Rebecca.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 2:03:23
I mean, I think it is prudent and it's worth remembering that before the the work started.
there was no budget for for new acquisitions, new builds when the housing stock came back in house, you know, though it looked like there was an awful lot of work going to be needed to to to get those properties up to scratch, so it's an absolute.
triumph that this money has been
worked
the budget has been worked up that we can include this.
but I think, as Tim said, there's no one in the room that doesn't want to to achieve more, and I know that officers will be looking for every grant opportunity that you know.
feasible and, as I mentioned, that as well we'll be looking at, you know the the the disposal policy, so every every conceivable opportunity that there is.
we want to maximise the numbers that we can yeah build up our stock again. I was reminded earlier that today, actually that you know, we've we've lost, I think about 2000 homes in our stock since the right to buy came in and yeah we've got 1,500 households on on the waiting list so
and as we as we've been discussing all evening with the cuts that are having to be to be made, that no one wants to make.
but you know local authority funding has been.
well, sadly, underfunded for years and years and that yeah, that's why we were in this largely in this position, so.
hopefully think things will change, as I said, I know officers.
are as keen as we all are to to do to get as many properties back into our stock as we can so.
I am always optimistic and I want to push officers beyond what is realistic because, yeah, we it's wishful thinking is not going to to build these homes.
but yeah, I have every confidence that if we can do it.
we will absolutely strive to do it.
Cllr Jim Martin - 2:05:54
thank you very much excellent, so we have a proposer Councillor Shaw, but we have a seconder in myself, those in favour, please indicate.
thank you very much, that's excellent.

15 Housing Repairs and Maintenance Options Appraisal recommendation for procurement

so now we can move on to Item 15, housing repairs and maintenance options appraisals recommendation for procurement pages 3 21 2 3 6 8 and we're gonna be led through this item by Councillor Scroop, thank
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 2:06:30
you. So the current housing repairs and maintenance contract with Mears is due to expire in April 2025 and I'm sure you appreciate this contract is a critical customer facing one as it currently includes all the responsive repairs to our council homes along with the planned maintenance service, the void works and some of the compliance related services as well.
so this contract is currently is housing's largest contract, and that's the council second largest in terms of spend.
with the the current annual cost of the total contract is over 3.5 million, so over a 10 to 15 year period a re procured service would equate to a total of 35 to 55 million.
due to the complexity of the accounts of the the contract, the Council, housing and procurement teams have appointed project consultants that's faithful Farrell times, they were appointed in June 2023 to provide commercial experience, technical knowledge and PR project management skills to support the Council through the the project stages.
so, first of all, a a desk market exercise was initially carried out.
followed by stakeholder workshops and consultation with housing staff, tenants and members, and so f f t have now used all this feedback, along with market intelligence, to provide a full options appraisal, to help the Council make an informed decision about the way forward with this important customer facing contract and that can be found in the appendix to this report.
so Cabinet is asked to agree the recommendations in this paper in order to ensure that the Council housing assets service is able to procure a new repairs and maintenance contract.
that continues to provide a good level of service delivery, meets legislation and provides value for money to our council, tenants and leaseholders.
so the options appraisal has identified the main recommendation to members to commence procurement for a single integrated contract for repairs, voids and some aspects of planned works, namely kitchen and bathroom replacements and disabled adaptations, and as a separate individual contracts for aspects of compliance and the mechanical and electrical work streams, so this is things like fire alarms and electrical installation condition reports.
so the main benefits of this option are set out in.
section 11 of the f t options appraisal report, to summarise the wreck, this recommendation is based on having no significant set-up costs. The model is already well known to the Council and the housing team are skilled in delivering such a model, which means there'll be no requirements to significantly change the current resource structure. The risk is suitably shared with an external contractors as opposed to sitting with the Council, and that includes any Tupi risks. The Council will have the confidence that IT integration and a contact centre will be handled by a single integrated contractor, thereby offering a seamless service to the customer, or the council housing team have already demonstrated that a good level of customer satisfaction and an efficient service can be delivered via a single contractor outsource model with specialist support for certain let mechanical or electrical work streams and the compliance work streams, so I'm very happy to move the recommendations thank you.
Cllr Jim Martin - 2:10:38
thank you very much, Councillor Schreber, I'm very happy to second and open Ford, the banker.
Councillor Brice.
thank God.
Cllr Tim Prater - 2:10:49
just because you haven't heard from me this evening.
I fully understand the logic behind having a large single contract broadly for the majority of the works.
but I don't necessarily support it.
without wishing to say She's behind you sat behind Councillor Shoe at this moment as Councillor Davidson, who moved a motion literally at Full Council three weeks ago.
about exploring procurement processes which break down contracts make smaller contracts in order to make them more accessible to small local businesses who can get involved in them, there are a number of small local businesses that might be interested in helping us fit kit in refit, kitchens or bathrooms or do do work to improve our houses.
energy efficiency, et cetera, and although I know that that's much harder to manage if you've got that multiplicity of suppliers and they've got a whole range of small suppliers to a number of things it does improve, it is noted to improve the economy that having a number of those small suppliers doing so is better than having one large supplier doing the lot.
I certainly welcome a discussion about how a single supplier would use customer contact and IT to help deliver service and deliver better services to residents and tenants I can certainly say in conversation with residents and tenants at the moment who have been receiving service from Ms isn't working very well at the moment sometimes,
and is quite often that people are.
not giving notice of turning up to do jobs, not giving notice when they're not turning up to do jobs, not giving notice about what's actually going to be done on the day, what's gonna happen, what the impact is gonna be on the resident, what support they need in order to be there in terms of doing it, it's not right yet and I'm
I think it is important during that tendering process that we're going and that that needs to be made better, because if you're going to have a piece of work done, it should be it's not rocket science at this moment for us to be able to book an appointment that person and say when that's gonna be a mat person to be able to make sure that that was appropriate time for that for for somebody to attend that the needs of that have been assessed, so if a person companies because they are in a vulnerable position that you know and they need somebody around them, that can be managed et cetera, but if a piece of work needs to be cancelled or re timetabled and then we'd do
building works need that sort of stuff that that's actually communicated to people, as opposed to them sitting there all day waiting for somebody who never arrives, and it's not currently working quite like that with the existing contract and I'd hope a new contract would do better.
am I'd said, returning to the original point, although I accept that delivering a large percentage of the services now boasts say it talks about having small breakout contracts for some electrical et cetera, but it doesn't talk about.
local building companies or joinery companies or insulation companies getting involved in that I do think that that's a missed element, which would help really invest in this local economy and, of course, local people work for the existing supplier and local people will work for the new supply who it is as well, but that amount of investment I am and a local gain isn't made by going to a very, very big company in the same way as if it goes through a series of small ones. So I do regret the opportunity that this is closing down.
of going for one big supplier and I'd certainly hope that an in procurement process, it's good or that there's a real focus on it being much better and communicating with tenants when work is being done and making sure that that's being done in the way that they would expect it to be done and that they feel it's being done with them and not unto them so I I I've got some concerns about or about memory I understand the model I just don't like it pretty much sorry,
would you like to come back on that?
Councillor Isherwood.
Cllr Jim Martin - 2:15:10
thanks, I'd like to ask officers if they can perhaps help out on some
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 2:15:16
of the procurement side of it, and certainly yeah on the the the sort of size of the size of contract and who who the
you know, potentially, who might tender for that.
I think on the
you mentioned, yeah, what's happening at the moment, response times.
turning up for appointments, et cetera, et cetera, and the wholesale booking in of repairs.
and the the tenants.
there will be tenant involvement in the procurement, and I've been to a couple of meetings this week where those very issues were raised, so I know that that is absolutely something that.
whoever bids will be put through their paces at all on that side of things, it's absolutely absolutely essential that that that is got right, so if for I could ask a thank you very much.
we, we totally understand.
Gill Butler - 2:16:23
the EU, where you're coming from with regard to this, and we have spent a lot of time working with F T to make sure that when we do go out to tender, it is attractive to the or a large number of potential contractors that would want to come and work with us down here in Folkestone and Hythe and we are going to be issuing a notice in advance before we go to tender to try to get some.
expressions of interest, so we understand which contractors may be interested in in in the contract, we've tried to keep it so that the the main body of the work is with a single contractor, but don't underestimate the the the ones that we're separating out. We are separating out a number of quite key contracts in things like electrical work which, by offering that to a smaller contract or more local contractor we are, we are giving them the opportunity
in in line with the the the corporate requirement around the corporate plan, we are trying to do that.
and it is it is I, I accept the fact that you are talking about the historical work that we've been doing with mayors since they came back in house.
from East Kent Housing we we have improved, we had, we did have an improvement plan with them, things have got an awful lot better, to the extent that the most recent tenant satisfaction survey that we did this year, which I think the results are coming to Cabinet term shoe shortly or coming to us see I think,
that we have improved and repairs and maintenance is a big contributor to the overall satisfaction figures that we get from tenants, there is still work to do, and by having tenants on the evaluation panel on part of the tender process, we need to make sure that that is a key element that any new contractor will be able to meet in terms of satisfaction levels and improvement in customer services.
so I'm just gonna how many contracts that we actually gonna be looking at and as a smaller contractors as free contracts, sorry, there'd be three contracts for the smaller contractors may before, but I need to
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 2:18:39
point out even were there with me as at the moment and whoever worth or when the sender or the staff or local staff there'd be two paid over.
well, the majority of the the suppliers and the local suppliers so they don't buy from from a distance and supply down here, they buy locally already.
the eventual kitchens, bathrooms,
and it adapts we look currently looking at that at the moment, the repairs and maintenance contract does all of that, but in the in the future we're looking at split in half of that out, so we'll look in to see whether we'd get value for money for that.
okay, it's okay, Councillor Shah Councillor Peter, do you want to come
Cllr Jim Martin - 2:19:37
back thanks yeah I I get that there were three smaller contracts and I
Cllr Tim Prater - 2:19:41
could see that for electric and a couple of other areas, but that ain't no use if you're a plumber. For instance, where is the breakout where, whereas that small scale I I didn't see the small scale contract outside the norm maintenance areas? Perhaps you can help me where that isn't the paper Mick
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 2:20:06
under the planned maintenance, it says it says an element of the planned maintenance will be done by the the contractor, I think you'll find.
the record on recommendation 3 talks about a single integrated contract for repairs, voids and some aspects of planned works, and under clean, it says separate individual contracts for aspects of
Gill Butler - 2:20:31
compliance and the mechanical and extra electrical work streams sits under the recommendation yeah, no I I get that but if you're a joiner
Cllr Tim Prater - 2:20:40
or an insulator or a plumber,
Iran.
because you already talked about individual compacts for compliance and mechanical and electrical, so if you're an electrician, that's plausible, both your plumber, it's not plausible, here's somebody who works and a single local contractor bidding to do. The single integrated contract for repairs, voids and some aspects of planned work. Around 3,400 houses. Properties is quite a big contractor, and I said I'd get I get the economy of scale. From our point of view, we're dealing with a single contractor to do that, I just think there's a potential missed opportunity there. I'd certainly welcome, in terms of the tendering anything that we can do around making sure that procure local procurement is built in as a requirement of that contract, as opposed to
an aspiration or a where possible things should be should be being sourced locally from local suppliers and that will help, and yet obviously, local people are doing most of those works, because nobody is going to live in Yorkshire and drive down here each day and,
do some plumbing and drive home to Yorkshire each time so they are gonna, be local people doing those works.
but that's not what actually progressive procurement does it's about giving more of an economy of a number of different businesses doing your thing, I I, I get it, I'm not going to vote against it, I understand where you're going on it, but I just it just feels like barriers still an opportunity here for us to do something more around getting more businesses.
involved in that key that that core body of work,
am I just to come back on your final point, as I do do certainly?
the feedback that I get from tenancies that repairs and maintenance and support is better than it used to be.
I certainly I'm afraid, don't yet get the feeling that everybody is universally happy.
Cllr Jim Martin - 2:22:44
jolly good. Okay, I'd just like to to Giblin Myanmar to benefit the problem with employing arranging multitude of tribes individually is the interfaces, so it it's it's you know the the the Tyler not being able to tell because the plasterer hasn't quite completed, and it's it's the interfaces. That's that's with works where the main contractor eases things, particularly in terms of you know, time spent in a in a resident's home, the the the other thing that our arts have been. It should be a strong emphasis in the tender documents about local employment, because that's the whole idea to employ local people.
and I'd I'd also like to see
the contractors saying where their subcontractors come from, so in terms of Councillor Briatore's example, if there is a you know an insulator as a subcontractor, the you know they're they're based in Romney or where you know wherever I think some analysis would give councillors the comfort that they want with regard to this being local spend on local buildings for local work people,
and I think I think we can you know, I understand the advantages that come with a introducing a multitude of local contractors, but it is it's really difficult to deliver on that, but I I I I think we can go quite a why with a main contractor and ease the split out traits are really key in delivering net, so so I on I'm very supportive of this up in everything that Councillor Pryke Rushdie's is worth working on but I think most that it could be delivered.
through a walk we'd go before us, so I owe Councillor Scotland,
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 2:24:51
it isn't my natural territory, but I was just going to ask to what extent the sourcing of the materials used in the repairs and any work is continuing to be considered as or in terms of its environmental footprint and and and eco credentials I'm just aware that different types of paint, for example, some are more damaging to the environment than others, different types of wood can be supplied from different sources, is that something that is taken into consideration?
thank you, Councillor, Yes, absolutely our procurement team are currently working quite closely with us on making sure that the criteria that we put into the the tender documents includes we we need to, we need to see their environmental policy and for prospective contractors we need to see exactly how they're disposing of waste exactly what materials they're using, how are they going to be applying it?
their their attitude to transportation, and all of that needs to be in as part of the the qualifications. Thank you very much that it seems an important point to look at the footprint. Thank you. Thank you. In
Cllr Jim Martin - 2:26:01
fact, I think that there is an onus on number the qualification I 9,027 or something are forgotten in all, but but presumably you'll be looking at people either having achieved that or working towards that in terms of the sustainability, so there is, or there is an international standard will be so on that OK. Well, if no one else wants to add anything to that debate,
we have a proposer Councillor Shaw, we have a second-hand myself.
all those in favour, please indicate.
all those against.
and those abstentions.
thank you very much to affecting with pain.

16 Consultation from Kent County Council on the draft Kent Cycling and Walking Infrastructure Plan (KCWIP)

ITEM 16 consultation from Kent County Council on the draft Kent, cycling and walking infrastructure plane pages 3 6 9 2 3 9 6 in your pack.
and Councillor Blackmoor is going to lead us through this Councillor Polly Blackmoor, sorry.
thank you Chair.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 2:27:20
the local cycling and walking infrastructure plan concept has been developed by the Department for Transport to assist local authorities in taking a strategic and long-term approach to developing cycling and walking networks, KCC has decided to develop the Kent cycling and walking infrastructure plan to identify preferred routes, prioritise investment and improve connections across Kent importantly, the plan aims to integrate walking and cycling into transport policies and it will also provide evidence to support local projects the consultation opened on the 1st of November and will close on the 10th of January.
this report summarises the proposals set out within the Casey WIP and suggests the basis for the district council's response. 3 of the 15 routes are within or pass through our district. Firstly, route are for Canterbury to Folkestone. Secondly, route are 13 fixed into HIV, which takes in the all important route along Marine Parade, which we need to ensure caters for cyclists and pedestrians and not just motorists and thirdly, route are 8, which is Ashford to Folkestone via the south side of the obstacle park site and in their responses, officers have emphasised the need for close alignment with off-site network improvement works that could reasonably be expected to be secured by Otterspool development contract developer contributions,
members are asked to comment on the draft responses set out in Appendix 1 and, due to the tight timetable, to delegate authority to make any necessary amendments to the responses in consultation with Councillor Marsh at Martin and myself before submitting to KCC ward councillors whose wards the proposed routes pass through are also being consulted and any comments will be integrated into the response.
it is worth noting that there is currently no identified budget for the schemes presented in his consultation, but active travel England has said that authorities with a cycling and walking infrastructure plan are better placed to secure future funding.
indeed, based on our existing local cycling and walking infrastructure plan, we have to date secured funding for the simple cycle route phase for B and 5 and the Cheriton Road scheme to be delivered in 2024, so evidencing the value of investing time and resource in such plans. The final version of the KC Whip will go to Kent's Environment and Transport Cabinet Committee for approval in late spring 2024, so I'd like to thank officers for their work on the report and the consultation responses and I move the recommendations.
thank you very much.
Cllr Jim Martin - 2:30:09
Councillor Blackmoor, sorry, teacher, did you move the motion needed yeah, I'm very, very happy to second it and I opened it for debate.
Cllr Jim Martin - 2:30:24
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 2:30:25
Councillor Speakman, yeah, I was interested in what personal interests, but I think also for sort of improving tourism, there is a link, I think.
made in the consultation or and certainly in our responses about the the Kent, the Greenway along the canal, which I think would be, I think that's been around for a very long time and I'm just wondering how far do you think this will help kind of hopefully promote progress on that?
I think, getting the the drawing any information together into this document is is the first step towards that, but I will bow to the
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 2:31:01
greater knowledge of officers to answer in detail.
yes, thank you, they are, as you say, that the Greenway proposal has
Adrian Tofts - 2:31:09
been around for quite some time now and we understand it hasn't progressed because of funding problems and also land ownership problems, and what we're trying to do in our response to this is to raise raise it with Kent County Council and to highlight to them that it would run parallel to proposed route 8 4 for some distance.
and so, hopefully through that process, if it was included in the Kent walking and infrastructure plan, we could hopefully help to secure some funding through that means or also we have highlighted it ourselves in the Council's infrastructure funding statement supporting our community infrastructure levy which,
and that went to this Cabinet on the 22 of February this year, so that there are a variety of sources that could possibly fundings.
Cllr Jim Martin - 2:32:09
thank you very much and I have a quick sorry, I didn't quite catch your mention of Marine Parade that the map shows it going on a young national cycle route 2, which doesn't go down Marine Parade, are you planning on diverting national cycle route to,
I think it does go down Marine Parade because cycle Shepway are very
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 2:32:32
exercised about the fact that at the moment there is not much recognition of that fact, we have a mini roundabout that appeared there recently and no marked cycle routes on the
on the road, so unless I'm missing something and let agent come in.
Adrian Tofts - 2:32:58
we can check and get back to you on that questionnaire or as part of this consultation we have highlighted it to cycled Shepway for any comments they may have, so they are, they are aware of it as well, but
Cllr Jim Martin - 2:33:14
there obviously I speak to the Ward Councillor behind I not have many many discussions about the specific route of national national cycle route so believe me, sorry wasabi go I'll be really grateful for that, thank you very much and sorry about that.
add or any other contributions to the debate.
we have a proposer and we have a seconder all those in favour, please indicate.
thank you very much for that.

17 Romney Marsh Coastal Destination Centre including Beach Chalet Project

Cllr Jim Martin - 2:33:48
and this, in fact, is our final item, Romney, Marsh coastal destination centre, including beach chalet projects pages to sorry 3 9 7 2 4 1 4 in your pack and we are gonna, be led through this by a Councillor statement.
yes, a great pleasure, because I think that this is an excellent
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 2:34:12
scheme. It has had a lot of good local support, a bit of background. It was. In June 21, the Cabinet approved a proposal to create a visitor destination centre on Coast Drive car park, in gritstone that falls within the Council's ownership. The project is an opportunity to create a coastal destination certain to facilitate inward investment, improve the local economy and to bring forward forward a sustainable place-making intervention. The original proposal offered 108 beach huts
a visitor hub with cafe and education centre, enhanced car parking, toilet facilities, including a changing places toilet and a public realm improvements.
the project also delivers a revenue surplus to the Council from year 1 and continuing through the 20 year lifetime of the scheme,
and it went out when it went out to consultation it, it proved widespread support, including.
from a local community, including New Romney, Parish, Council and the Dungeness power station site stakeholders, group, and that matter was raised or reflected by the subsequent Magnus Magnox grant award.
so this report is to advise Cabinet of the work to date and, as these things happen, unfortunately, it did encounter a few difficulties or as, as we know, the it happens and unforeseen, and so this had to lead to some changes to the original proposed scheme because of site and planning constraints which are identified during the design and development process and that's outlined in the in the report so I said it provides an update on the current design to take into account those challenges and,
design difficulties, and also includes the proposed procurement of contractors, and seeks additional budget prior approval to enable to deliver the scheme.
investment into the screen a into this project is recommended wow as it will create a coastal destination and centre that will certainly boost tourism and economic or activity on the Marsh, as I said, it is most welcome locally and it also provides an ongoing revenue stream for the Council the budget for the proposed scheme requires approval to deliver the project as set out.
enable the revenue stream and to secure transformational change was in the area, delivering much-needed social, economic and regeneration benefits, so.
I move the recommendation, which is to approve the redesign scheme as set out.
to remove the required budget of 1,593 pounds to million, rather to deliver it's actually yeah has gone up a bit to deliver this scheme and note that there will be built into the medium term capital plan and to provide delegated authority to the Director of Housing to accept the moguls grant of 300,000 also to note the wider funding package from CIL and a shared prosperity funding 112 400,000.
noting the commencement of the tender process for a contractor to deliver the scheme and to provide delegated authority to the Director of Housing and operations to carry out any tasks required to deliver the scheme within the agreed budget.
thank you very much.
Cllr Jim Martin - 2:37:55
thank you very much, Councillor Smitten, I'm very happy to second the motion or the proposal and opening forward the bike.
are we content and again are very clear I I would like just to thank the officers specifically Andy who has been driven nuts by where the beach begins and where the beach ends were requested, the beaches it isn't.
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 2:38:28
Cllr Jim Martin - 2:38:30
so the the moral of this story is that I don't think he could develop on a beach because historically really difficult, so sorry, we have a proposer, Councillor Speakman, but we have a second of myself all those in favour, please indicate
terrific. Thank you very much, everyone, thank you, this is the longest cabinet meeting we've had, I had the rest of them will all be a lot shorter, sorry about the lack of mince pies and I, I think, got enough at the beginning of the week, sadly, and I just like to thank all of you for your efforts and wish you all a very merry Christmas. Thank you