Council - Wednesday 24 January 2024, 7:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Council
Wednesday, 24th January 2024 at 7:00pm 

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Slide selection

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:00:17
Good evening, everyone, if you'd like to also sit down, please, and we're going to start our meeting.
with a prayer from the chairs, Minister Reverend Anita McKenzie, so.
Microphone Forty - 0:00:30
thank you good evening, everyone.
I wanted to start off this evening by just saying a little bit about Holocaust Memorial Day, which was on the 27th of January.
and the theme this year being fragility and freedom,
this reminds us of a world of the world that we live in at the moment, that's filled with violence and conflict.
and our prayers for peace become ever more important at every level, personal societal and for the world, so today we offer a prayer to open our hearts and actions to peace and the alleviation of suffering.
beloved creator of on as we work together this evening, open our hearts to your tenderness, open our minds to your understanding, open our lives to your challenge, we are one people of many nations, building hope through steps of peace.
God of refuge, the rock in whom we trust watch over our sisters and brothers in all countries where violent conflicts exist, bring comfort to all those who grieve shelter to those who are homeless and provide sustenance to those who hunger and thirst.
eternal God you hold all of our days in your hands, on Holocaust Memorial Day, we come before you to remember the victims of the Holocaust.
may our minds be clear and attentive to their memory and our hearts be moved to bear witness to their lives.
today, help us to remember and recognise the sanctity of each human life that all people are made in your image.
God of mercy, open our hearts to your grounds so that we are filled with compassion and generosity of spirit.
and inspire us to work together to take action.
spirit of love poor at your peace, like a healing balm which brings hope in place of despair and God of love.
we ask you to grant all of us peace in our mind, body, soul and spirit, heal and remove everything that causes that is causing stress, grief and sorrow in our lives, so let me mean work positively and collectively doing the best for peace in our own local community.
men.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:03:28
thank you, that was beautiful, good evening and welcome to the meeting of the Full Council.
this meeting will be webcast live to the internet, for those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed, you will need to leave the Chamber.
for members officers and others speaking at the meeting, it is important that the microphones are used, so viewers on the webcast, and others in the room may hear you would anyone with a mobile phone, please switch it to silent mode as they can be distracting. I would like to remind Members that, although we all have strong opinions on matters under consideration, it is important to treat members officers and public speakers with respect.
please note, I appreciate that some Members might not be able to stand when addressing the meeting, and therefore I will, of course, permit those members to speak without the need to stand at the meetings of Full Council.
OK, so we're going to start with apologies for absence.

1 Apologies for Absence

thank you very much in the evening, councillors and colleagues and members of the public, and we've just got one apologies for absence this evening from Councillor Cooper Kelly, thank you.

2 Declarations of Interest

thank you and moving onto item 2 declarations of interest.
are there any declarations of interest that need to be made?

3 Minutes

OK, thank you, and moving on to Item 3 the minutes are we all agreed that the the minutes from the meeting held on the 29th of November are a correct record.
I will sign those.
it's this one.

4 Chair's Communications

OK, thank you, and we will move on to Item 4, which is the chairs communications as we don't have the chair tonight, there are no communications, but I would like to wish the Chair well and we'll look forward to hopefully seeing her again at the next Full Council meeting.

5 Petitions

6 Questions from the Public

item 5 petitions, there are no petitions, and then we'll move on to Item 6, which is public questions. There are two questions from members of the public. There is an apology from the officers that these were not published as they would usually be ahead of the meeting, but this was due to a technical error but
I am really glad that we are including these questions, obviously in the meeting, so the first question I've been requested to read it out.
so the first question is from Sarah Hitchcock.
2 Councillor P Blakemore Cabinet Member for Transport, regulatory services and building control.
in the light of the recent death of a seven year old as a result of a road traffic accident in Sandgate, will the Council review the issue of road safety in the district, in particular street lighting during the winter months and traffic flow pedestrian safeguarding along Risborough Lane given heightened congestion as a result of the nearby new housing estates? Note the pavement on Risborough Lane leading up to the junction with Cheriton High Street is extremely narrow in places and poorly paved many schoolchildren use this route to and from several primary and secondary schools with the increase in traffic including heavy goods traffic. This is now a particularly hazardous stretch of road
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:07:33
thank you Chair. I believe I speak for us all when I say we were all shocked and shaken by the death of William Byrne and moved by the response to people in the district to his tragic death. I know many residents are concerned about the speed of traffic and would point people in the direction of the petition for 20 miles per hour speed limit through Sandgate on the Kent County Council website KCC, is the highway authority but as a ward councillor for charity, and I am familiar with the issues along the stretch of road who raised concerns about. We have passed your concerns to the County Council's High Highways Improvement Team and will ask them to update us on any plans to improve the area in a future joint transportation board meeting
it would also be beneficial to contact your county councillor, who will be able to further assist with this matter.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:08:28
thank you, and there's no supplementary question, so I would like to invite our second member of the public Glyn Williams to come and ask his question to Councillor J Martin, Leader of the Council and Cabinet Member for Otterspool Park and Planning Policy.
good evening.
Microphone Forty - 0:08:52
could I ask the Council Leader for his position on the proposed development of the private lane between the western end of the Council owned Princess Parade site and Imperial Hotel, this land has been a feature of social of local life as a golf course since 19 0 6 and is currently designated open space in the core strategy of the current Local Plan.
Councillor Jim Martin,
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:09:17
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:09:18
thank you, Mr. Williams, for your question, I think it's a very pertinent question and indeed, Councillor Godfrey has submitted a question regarding the same site, which I will answer later, everyone is aware, I am sure, of my historical involvement with the Save Princess Parade campaign.
I am hopelessly predetermined on all things associated with Prince's Parade.
I have always felt that the length of Princess Pride is a valuable asset to hide and to the wider district I am not the only one when rejecting the planning application in 2004, the Planning Inspector said the site had the finest vistas in the district.
I agreed with her then and I agree with her now.
my e-mail inbox has recently been inundated with local people, who also seem to agree.
we as a Council, I am Planning Authority, will follow the procedures set out for us by primary legislation, and if there is a forthcoming application, it will be dealt with correctly, my personal views will play no part in the decision making process, thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:10:46
thank you, did you want and have an additional supplementary related
Microphone Forty - 0:10:53
question, no of happy with it, thank you very much, thank you for joining us this evening.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:10:58
OK, so we're going to move on to Councillor questions, there are 16 questions from members we shall set out in schedule 2 on members' desk, and I believe we have 45 minutes allowed for these questions.
we just.
so, yeah, I've got them, thank you, the first question is from Councillor Thomas to Councillor Speakman.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:11:33
yeah, thank you Chair. The paper C 23 68, presented at the December Cabinet meeting, proposed changes to the number of litter bins service by the older as part of the street cleaning contract. I fully support the need for the Council to achieve savings to address the gaps in the budget that currently exists. The proposal shows that savings could be achieved by cutting the number of bins across the district from 1,060 to 775, the reduction of 285 bins
what criteria is going to be used to ascertain which bins will be removed and the Viola have accurate data to report the removal of the least used bins, thank you.
thank you very much, Councillor Thomas, for your question.
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:12:14
first thing to say, I think it's important that, whilst the original recommendation did include a target reduction of use mentioned in the overall number of litter bins linked to a savings target target, when this was discussed at Cabinet.
the final recommendation, in fact, was to was changed to remove the target figure so that dogs goes gone.
this was to allow for any rationalisation in litter bin numbers and locations to be driven primarily by demand, rather than an imperative to achieve a financial savings target.
it is agreed, however, that there needs to be a rationalisation in overall numbers to put a cap on costs and to ensure that the Council can keep its litter bin stock in a good state of repair, no criteria for removal or relocation have yet been agreed and there are limitations on the data available on bin use which will need to be considered. Thank you very much,
Councillor Thomas, you had a supplementary question or I do if I may Chair and again I think it's still relevant.
so please, can the Cabinet Member confirm that all Town and Parish Councils will be consulted on which bins are to be removed from their wards prior to the bins being removed, can the Cabinet Member also confirm the organisations such as litter-picking watch Romney, Marsh who does such a fantastic job of government to keep the district litter free would be allowed to support the town and parish councils and have an input into the final being location? Thank you Councillor,
yeah, absolutely there will need to be an engagement, of course, with ward members, as well as town and parish councils, on what is proposed proposed. I expect town and parishes may well want to draw on the experiences of local community litter, picking groups, including, obviously the the excellent litter, picking. What Romney, Marshall I've had the pleasure to meet and I just say that Will Tanaka parish councils will probably want to draw their own conclusions on that, but of course obviously that will be their decision. Thank you very much takes
thank you moving on to question 2 from Councillor Goddard to Councillor Speakman.
thank you, Lord Mayor, and target only.
would the Cabinet Member agree with me that the work of the Area officers has been transformed in ensuring that the incidence of graffiti, especially obscene and racist graffiti, has been removed promptly?
their support was being crucial in supporting volunteer groups across the district and litter piff, picking security many hundreds of hours of volunteering, and would ensure may end the Council, this team will not be a casualty of the forthcoming budget proposals.
thank you very much, Councillor Golton, for your question, matters actually relating to staffing and the staffing structure are the responsibility of the Head of Paid Service, it is my understanding that reductions to the Area Officer team have been proposed, moving from four to two officers with one voluntary redundancy. I most certainly agree that the work of the Area Officer officers has indeed been transformational to the district and the proposed retention of two officers to continue with this important work is very much welcomed.
as all councils are aware of gross, the Council is in a difficult financial position, and hard decisions do have to be taken wherever possible, the impacts on frontline and statutory services have been minimised.
thank you and do have a supplementary question.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:15:53
and moving on to question 3 from Councillor Womble to Councillor J Martin.
thank you Chair. In light of the Council's current budget restraints
Cllr David Wimble - 0:16:00
which have led to the unfortunate necessity of losing some staff and possibly making substantial service cuts, I'm left wondering about the wisdom behind a particular decision. Specifically, is it a judicious use of taxpayers' money to dismantle the perfectly functional fence that once insert who decided that your party deems so hazardous, it was a matter of life and death. I needed to replace it with a smaller one rather than allocating budgets ranging from
with quarter of a million pounds it says here, but I think it's 100,000 pounds for this endeavour, I believe it would be more fiscally responsible to explore more economical approach, I suggest, prior to the election, that we consider the district wide.
referendum, the approach would allow for more democratic and informed decision making process that takes into account the concerns and preference of our constituents.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:17:00
thank you very much, Councillor window for your question.
there is a lot to answer, so please bear with me while I address each point in turn.
it is true that this Council, like so many councils up and down the country, are having to deal with the deficit.
to try and present to this Chamber a balanced budget next month is still a big challenge, but I can report that we have made great strides towards achieving that balanced budget, this has only been done by a great deal of work by almost every Department in the Council, yes, cuts have had to be made and jobs very sadly have been lost.
but I promise the people of the district that our Council would not be one of the many councils declaring bankruptcy, and I can confirm to know that I will keep my promise with regard to the holdings around Princess Parade. I am sorry that progress has been slow, but this site is complex and, as the last administration found out to its cost, it cannot be dealt with lightly to re fence the site. We first needed specialist analysis of the site, ground conditions and, most importantly, the contaminants present within the first half metre of soil. We were then given specialist advice on how to proceed. The works have now been tendered and the works will be begin shortly to replace the holdings at a works cost of between
50,160 thousand pounds depending on the type of fencing chosen.
and also includes a budget for both ecological and archaeological, watching briefs to ensure our wildlife and heritage on the site is continued, continues to be protected, you will note that this figure is nowhere close to the half a million speculated in your question and I am sure you will join me in congratulating the officers in achieving such value for money.
there has been much speculation on social media regarding the existing holdings and the 1,300 concrete blocks that support them. I am able to confirm this evening that all of the holdings are being recycled up to Otter Pele where they will be utilised to hold existing vacant buildings and the materials left over will be stored and used on site as construction works progress in the future. I know Councillor Womble that you are concerned about costs, so I think you will agree with me that the cost to this Council of running a District wide referendum to decide the fate of some holdings would not be a judicious use of taxpayers' money

7 Questions from Councillors

last year, sorry, later this year I hope to begin consultation on the future of Prince's Parade, where local people across the district will be consulted and asked to give their thoughts, ideas and suggestions with regard to the future of this much-loved section of our coastline. Thank you, thank you and do you have a related supplementary question?
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:20:32
no, thank you
they please hear that the hoardings will be sent down to us to.
Cllr David Wimble - 0:20:38
Western hangar, as I proposed in my e-mail to you before Christmas, thank you.
thank you, and we have another question from Councillor Womble and to
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:20:50
Councillor Jim Martin so.
thank you once again Chair, I do apologise that these questions were done before Christmas.
Cllr David Wimble - 0:21:00
to avoid any speculation and to allow the whole district residents who actually pay council tax to have their say again, this goes back to a referendum which could have been on the same one as the previous question be held over the proposed swimming pool as to where it should eventually be positioned as it appears that a minority council's decisions impact the whole district.
Councillor Jim Martin, thank you Chair, thank you, Councillor
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:21:25
Windmill, for your question, Nick again, it is it is detailed, so please bear with me.
before the decision was taken to build a swimming pool at Princess Parade, the Overview and Scrutiny Committee considered three locations, the green in HIV Marcelo Lakes and Princess Parade, The Green was rejected because of a legal impediment Princess Pride was rejected because of the financial risk and,
the proposed Marcelo likes option.
was recommended as the most deliverable option.
sadly, the work of the Overview and Scrutiny Committee was ignored, but they sigh and Marcelo likes, is still available to the Council for 1 pound, I am very happy.
to speculate. I'm very happy for people to speculate, or would I wish? Indeed I would. I would ask anyone with ideas, suggestions or opinions to write to me and share their views with me. Indeed, two people have come to me with different ideas for alternative locations for the swimming pool. Currently, I have a very open mind on location. The key area for speculation currently is, can we ever afford to build a swimming pool? We have had to cut almost all areas of council services this year and unless someone know something that I'd done next year will also be a tough one. There is an aspiration to build the long awaited swimming pool, but that I guess, is still some way off. No responsible counsel, be that a majority administration or a minority administration will commit local local people to money to a new swimming pool while simultaneously cutting council services elsewhere.
if we arrive at a point where we are able to afford a new swimming pool to replace the swimming pool in South Road, Hyde, there will be extensive consultation regarding its location.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:23:47
thank you, and do you have a supplementary related question, yes, thank you with that in mind, if something should happen to our current
Cllr David Wimble - 0:23:53
self road swimming pool which saw very it pass its design date, are you confirming that we will no longer have a swim point high?
Councillor Martin,
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:24:06
well, the the the South Road swimming pools, one I am very familiar with, and the the end of swimming at South Road has been predicted for many years, Chair will know.
but it is true that there are many elements of the swimming pool.
the building fabric and the condenses on the on the heating system that heats the.
the as the swimming pool that could be quite appropriately described as on their last legs, sorry, there's no doubt about that.
however, we will have to take that as it comes, we will continue to maintain the swimming pool, there's the staff at Hyde swimming pool are amongst the most committed.
the people that we employ as a council, and I hope that we will be able to continue with Hyde with South Road swimming pool in Hyde until the new swimming pool is built, however, if something happens to.
South Road, and we are not in a position to have had built the swimming pool in time, then we will be without a swimming pool in high until the new one is built.
Good.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:25:37
thank you so, moving on to question 5 from Councillor Godfrey to Councillor Jim Martin.
Cllr David Godfrey - 0:25:45
thank you very much, thank you, thank you, Councillor Godfrey, for your question and you are quite right, I am hopelessly predetermined,
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:26:18
I've haven't had that violently opposed universe, hopelessly predetermined, and our first joined the soap Princess Bride campaign in 2012 when I walked into a meeting.
in Shanghai, in fact, and told the group that it was all about the viability.
I have often reflected on how different the last 12 years of my life might have been if I had not walked into that meeting, I now find myself, however, in a very different position compared to 2012, and my stance will reflect my current position but hopefully not reduce my vigour.
thank you, do you have a related supplementary question, OK, thank
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:27:02
you, and I am moving on to question 6 Councillor Mrs. Collins B to Councillor Fuller.
thank you good evening, Chairman and I was very disappointed to see
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:27:16
the customer service excellent signs removed in the Civic Centre and on the website in 2022, the assessor from the Centre for assessment, visited the district to carry out a comprehensive assessment, and the Council was again awarded the certificate of customer service excellence we were successful in being awarded compliance plus in 16 categories,
this was something the staff could rightly be extremely proud of and residents recognised, can the Cabinet Member tell us how much money has been saved by not renewing the customer Excellence programme, thank you, Councillor Fuller PJ, thank you, Councillor Hollingbery for
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:27:59
your question.
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:28:04
sorry, providing excellent customer service is something of which our staff are rightly proud.
I am sure you and all Councillors will join me in thanking our staff for their commitment to providing the very best services for our residents across the district.
this is, of course, against a backdrop of financial challenges, and the significant transformation will change the Council is currently going through, a cost saving of around 5,000 pounds will be made by not pursuing the award this year, but cost is not the main reason for this.
planning and delivering the work required to support a customer service excellence assessment is a very significant draw on staff time from across all services, and it is important to recognise that this is in addition to regular work of activities.
we have listened to our staff who have voiced concerns over increasing work pressures and taken the view that their focus should be firmly placed on delivering frontline services and priorities. Unfortunately, this means that activities like customer service excellence may not continue. However, I can say that we will shortly be refreshing the customer access strategy and this will include benchmarking of our services and improving the use of customer feedback or resident feedback. Really this will ensure that we maintain a focus on the key theme of continuous improvement as we strive to continue to deliver the best outcome for our staff and residents.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:29:37
thank you do have our latest supplementary question, yes, I think actually 5,000 pounds, although I understand the resource
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:29:41
implications, is quite a small amount to pay for a recognition of customer excellence and for the staff to be, as you rightly say, were well respected and actually work extremely hard, but I I would like you to reconsider please.
thank you for that, as, as I said, 5,000 pounds is the headline
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:30:05
figure, it's not it pales in comparison to the amount of work time that is involved, but obviously I'll speak to officers and get back to you with a response.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:30:20
thank you and we've got question 7 from Councillor Cooper to Councillor Speakman and Councillor Coupar has asked me to read his question out for him this evening. Could you please explain why the process of fixing some of the district owned streetlights within the Romney Marsh Ward seemed to take forever to either switch on fix and or upgrade before being transferred to Kent County Council for adoption? In doing so, would you please give an update on the progress of the work to date within the Romney Marsh ward on said street lighting, as per report number C 21 44 for the Cabinet in November 2021, including how many district own streetlights are there within my ward and how many of those have been upgraded, how many of them are waiting to be switched on and how many have been adopted by Kent County Council in addition to what is a number of district own streetlights with or within the Romney, Marsh ward or waiting adoption
more importantly, by what date can the residents of the Romney White Marsh ward, expect said streetlights to be either switched on, upgraded and adopted as the case may be, thank you, Councillor Speakman.
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:31:35
thank you, I'm afraid I'm not able to answer that question consequential, because in fact I'll have to defer to my colleague Councillor Blake more because it actually comes onto her portfolio, so if I could ask her to respond to your question by all means thank you thank you Councillor Polly Blakenhall, thank you Chairman, thank you Councillor Speakman.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:31:53
and thank you for your question, Councillor Cooper, our records show there are 70 District owned assets within the Romney Marsh Ward, these assets do not meet Kent County Council's criteria for adoption, so they will continue to be maintained by this Council out of the 71 the Marsh assets works on 68 and now fully complete the remaining two which are in Church approach and New Church Lane require work to be carried out by UK Power Networks.
the costs for works on assets that acquire UK PN connections have been much higher than originally budgeted, so officers will see me making a case for additional funding for these two Romney, Marsh assets, plus another 54 assets across the district, that also require UK P and connections if the extra funding is agreed, the entire project is expected to be fully completed by the end of April 24.
thank you do have related to supplementary question. I do words, thank
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:32:49
you. Thank you for that answer, Councillor Greatmoor, the question was actually submitted through Committee services and to be able to speak with them to Speakman. However, this is not a criticism of the stuff. We've got at least one unit, I'm aware of on his son's estate and I can supply the post number later, where there was an 81 year old lady who was scared because she can't come up with a job. She's also concerned in respect of any emergency services coming to the property because it's not lit people don't know where it is, and this poor woman is obviously frightened to read it and an accident tripping up or otherwise and not being found, unemployed or otherwise in a dog
and I think she'd been e-mailing it on today from a member of staff to say that was being looked into, so could you please pass on comments there, or can we also have a look at whatever has been invoiced to the council regarding history lights? Can we please ensure that the actual work has been done and review what the subcontract has actually been given, because the problems are not going to staff the problem? The staff are having, if anything is gonna be with the sub-contractors, and I think it's them that need to be looked at possible. Thank you. Councillor Mowat pollinate more. Would you like to respond to that and
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:34:03
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:34:06
certainly, yes, if you can give me the location details of that particular asset, I will certainly get it to the team and we will look into that, and I will then look into the where we are with the and the overall projects and the costs and so on, but I am as confident as I can be that in its own running as as planned
but yes, we will do a double check n, thank you cheers, thank you, thank you, I have a second question from Councillor Cooper, this time
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:34:29
to Councillor Jim Martin.
and I will read that out again, so that's OK.
yet again, the district is, sadly coming in for unnecessary criticism due to the classification of the quality of bathing water around St Mary's Bay and now little stone, I'm advised, the problems are being caused by a combination of agricultural waste, washing of the Marsh and leakage from domestic waste services from individual properties, the Environment Agency have determined that this from tests they have done.
I understand that they are now working on locating the source of the sources of the problem and when they have done this they will seek to take action against the property and landowners where the problems are occurring. Will this Council please write to Philip Duffy and Sarah Chair, the Chief Executive and Executive Director of local operations of the HRA Environment Agency, to ask why it is taking so long to remedy this problem and when can residents and visitors expected to be fixed? Could a copy of that letter also been sent to the right? Honourable Steve Barclay, MP, Minister of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, pointing out the apparent inertness of the EEA is causing a lot of untold concern regarding the existing and future quality testing of the seawater Councillor Jim Martin,
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:35:56
thank you Chair, thank you, Councillor Cooper, for your excellent question, I share completely your concerns about the beach water classifications at St Mary's by an little stone, indeed, I am very concerned about the reduction in bathing water quality almost all testing points.
along coast I'm not a.
a year ran swimmer, but I am an everyday swimmer during the summer, so I've got a real personal interest or possibly I should have declared that sort.
I have been meeting regularly with other local authorities across the region, organised by the Environment Agency, to apply pressure to Ofwat the water regulator to fine Southern Water for persistently failing to meet their customers needs I signed a joint letter from 20 plus district councils addressed to Ofwat asking them to take action against Southern Water.
this is a much bigger problem than a few localised failures I intend to involve the Environment Agency and central government in these discussions, and your question is a very helpful, prompt.
locally, our Environmental Protection Team.
have also been meeting with Southern Water and the Environment Agency to review the latest technical data and progress.
is being made, I plan to meet Southern Water personally on the on the 1st February and to push again for improvements, I agree that the Environment Agency, as the regulatory body, has a critical role to play in this matter.
there has already been correspondence with all of the main parties involved, and I am happy to support a letter being sent on behalf of the Council to the Environment Agency are copied to the Minister, thank you, do you have a related supplementary question, just to say
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:38:16
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:38:18
thank you we could support the and could be able to respond to say a copy of the just branches well when it arrives.
thank you,
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:38:26
thank you question 9, we have a question from Councillor Mead to
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:38:28
Councillor M Blakemore, thank you, Chair is quite some time now since the council voted to create a Youth Council.
to allow the youngsters of the district to input in decisions that will affect their future. Can you please give an update as to when this may start?
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:38:46
thank you very much, Councillor Mead, I share your interest in the subject and would very much like to see Youth Council. The motion to full Council was that the Council should refer to the overruns Overview and Scrutiny Committee. A report on establishing a District based Youth Council invite representatives to offer their views and survey. Young people on their support for a Youth Council officers have been speaking to colleagues in the County Council and district councils about their youth councils and youth forums. The different models for these bodies and the potential implications for financial and staff resources. A report is being prepared for February's Overview and Scrutiny Committee setting out how the Council could respond to the points in the Council resolution.
and you have a related supplementary question now, and I look forward
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:39:30
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:39:32
to seeing the report, thank you, thank you, and we have another question from Councillor Mead.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:39:35
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:39:39
Councillor M Blake, for thank you, Chair.
this Council released a press release regarding Grosse Hill Library this month, but I've had little to no information and detail regarding the Grade II listed building.
can you please confirm whether the building will be reinstated as a library, arts and community hub?
or have the people of Folkestone lost a building that was built and bequeathed to them as a library?
thank you again, Councillor Lewis, another excellent question, I've
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:40:10
taken a personal interest in saving this building, as has the Leader who met recently with Roger Golf, the leader of Kent County Council, to discuss greater a library, specifically, the discussions with the leadership of Kent County Council have been very positive regarding a community based partnership approach which would secure a positive future for Greystone Library.
can I just take this opportunity to praise the hard work carried out by creative folks and to secure a future for the building. Indeed, I am confident that everyone involved is working hard to achieve a future for Grasso Library, although it is a complex project and will take time to work through all the detail. Whilst I recognise that local people are very keen to know the detail of any proposals, unfortunately there isn't anything up to anything to update on just yet further to the recent announcement when there is more to say, I can assure you that Kent County Council and the partners will be keen to ensure that the community is kept up to speed on this significant project for Folkestone.
thank you. Do you have any related supplementary questions, if I may
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:41:12
grace your library, most of you will know, was built on the boundary of three wards. It was specifically built as a library for some of our most deprived. I, as a Kent county councillor, managed to lay some funding via Kent County about three years ago. 300,000 pounds was used to refurbish this because it's so important as a library, so can I ask that you actually keep the ward members involved in this because the demonstrations that happened much like Princess Parade, people want this as their library, we've always been told that it was a temporary closure. Grace Hill should be our library, not the closing youth hub building, so please, may I ask that you keep us in the loop. Thank you
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:42:05
yeah absolutely be very, very, very happy to keep you in the latest thing as we have some news to share it with you, thank you.
thank you and we have another question from Councillor Mead. This time
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:42:14
to Councillor Speakman sorry, keeping everyone very busy this evening.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:42:17
Thank you, Chair. As I came County Councillor, I've been very keen to organise proper accessibility for wheelchair or mobility scooter users onto Sunny Stones Beach. At present, though there is a concrete ramp down to the sand, the sand is so fine at the bottom. It makes it impossible for residents and visitors to move through the sand to the actual seashore in wheelchairs or scooters, and indeed to push children in buggies. I've set aside 10,000 pounds from my community grant to work in conjunction with this District Council who control Sunni sounds to make this possible, whether that be a moby mat or a wooden plastic boardwalk I know the Leader is positive about this project, but I'm being told
that there is no officer resource to do the necessary safety checks, et cetera, to type, take this vital piece of equipment forward. This would make a huge difference to our mobility, impaired and, in fact, are visually impaired residents, visitors and their family, and allow them to enjoy our beach fully with their families, which is only right. Can the Cabinet Member please confirm that officer resource will be found to work with me to make this happen, if at all possible? Thank you, Councillor Speakman
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:43:37
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:43:39
thank you very much, Councillor me for your question and I really appreciate your intent on that, and it is very important to try and improve access whilst it is not in the Corporate Plan.
and there is currently no resource allocated to this officers have previously liaised with Chris Cox from Cinque ports, mobility who are local specialists in this area. Chris has explained that due to the nature of our beaches being either shingle with a steep drop off or very tidal overs, and they get completely covered by the tide. So therefore access items such as moby mats and walkways get quickly covered, and slippery and solutions are therefore not easy to find. One suggestion that has come out of these conversations was the possibility of procuring a beach wheelchair. These have large wheels for access across a beach and actually float when they enter the water Cinque ports. Mobility would be able to borrow one of these to carry out a trial if a suitable volunteer group could be identified to assist with this. Another suggestion might be for conversation to take place with Folkestone Rescue who operate on a volunteer basis, providing rescues or services
sunny Sands in the summer and they may be able to operate the wheelchair and find a suitable location for storage district does not currently have officer resource to pursue this, however this could be factored into the new corporate plan for this year.
thank you very much
thank you, have you got a related supplementary question, yes, thank you, I do believe there are solutions to this problem, obviously the council has started to talk one wheelchair will not make the difference, so I will ask, Can we arrange a meeting so that we can actually sit down throw some ideas around to actually make this happen for our residents? Please, at your earliest convenience would be happy to do so. Thank you.
hopefully, thank you, and we have questioned 12 from Councillor Cooper to Councillor Tube, would you like me to read this one out, yes?
what is the current level of rent arrears owed by tenants?
I am asking, due to the household holding support button closing in March the energy price cap increasing by at least 94 pounds this month, and, given some council tenants are some of the the financially challenged, this cold spell will affect a lot of hard-pressed people who are going to have to spend more of their fixed and limited incomes on heating their homes this winter.
private rents are also expected to increase by about 5% during 2024 the consumer price says index, including owners occupiers, housing costs rose by 4.2% in the 12 months to December 2023.
given inflation is currently now at 4.00.2% does the Council feel it's wise to be increasing rents by a further 7.7% in April on asking its tenants for an over inflation increase, especially given the state of disrepair for some of its housing stock currently and the level of its arrears could be put could put more people into debt and or further debt not to mention at risk of losing their home councillorship?
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:47:03
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:47:08
thank you, thank you, Councillor Cooper for your question.
as at the 22 January 2024, the current level of rent arrears owed by tenants is 439,520 pounds.
whilst I appreciate that this is a difficult financial climate for everyone and for some more than others.
I recognise.
the need to continue to offer support and focus on tenants says tenancy sustainment, that is to say making sure that tenants can stay in their homes, the Housing Revenue account is, however, under significant pressure to deliver against the key priorities agreed by members, so to recap on those we need to cover compliance and, let us say, tenant health and safety and wellbeing. The revised HRA business plan signed off by Cabinet in December 23 commit 38 million pounds of capital investment over 30 years, housing management repairs and ongoing maintenance is 370 m 17 million revenue expenditure.
and 187 million pounds over 30 years on repairs and maintenance of homes.
meeting the decent homes standard, and that's investment and capital improvements to our stock, there's 166 million decarbonisation as the retrofitting of our existing homes is 44 million of capital investment.
and acquisitions and new build contributing to more affordable homes in the district, 126 million of capital investment over an 18 year period to deliver up to 360 new, affordable homes, and should note that that then requires it's built in or an additional 14 million in capital maintenance over time.
we cannot achieve this without collecting all the rent and service charge income due to the HRA.
each year on the 1st of April, social housing rents and service charges are set by the regulator of social housing formula, which is CPI plus 1% in line with the government rent policy, this is based on the previous September CPI which in September 2023 was 6.7% therefore the recommended level for 24 25 equates to 7.7%.
this should be viewed in the context of an historical low level of rental income to the HRA for many years prior to last year, from April 2016.
the welfare reform, welfare reform and Work Act required social landlords to reduce their rents by 1% each year for four years.
following that in 2020 to 21 CPI plus 1% resulted in a 2.7 1 cent rent increase which gave the Council Housing Service a gross rental income of 15.040 million for the subsequent years the CPI plus 1% formula resulted in the following annual rental income for the Council 21 to 22 as a 1.5% increase giving rental income of 15,283,022 to 23 was a 4.1% increase giving rental income of just under 16 million and last year 23 to 24 the increase was capped at 7%, giving a rental income of 16 for 16.288 million.
this coming year, 24 to 25 CPI plus 1%, gives a total of 7.7%, which it will be a gross rental income of 17.833 million.
the rent increase will be covered by the DW P for those in receipt of housing benefit or universal credit and it will it will go some way to Woods towards redressing the lack of investment in our housing stock.
over previous years, which was alluded to in your question.
our housing, income and welfare 13 on hand and committed to working with any tenants who are worried about debt or experiencing financial difficulties, and they can be contacted by e-mail at housing dot income at Folkestone, hyphen hive dot org dot uk, or by telephone on 0 1 3 0 3 8 5 3 300.
our council welfare team can help with rent arrears claiming benefits and budgeting advice if tenants are in receipt of housing benefit or universal credit.
they may be able to apply for a discretionary housing payment to help with their rent if they receive a council tax reduction and are facing exceptional hardship they may be able to get a financial support payment.
these can both be applied for, as can council tax reduction via the Council website or online application form, and the team can also refer tenants to the mobile food service and community hubs that provides support, including food and warm spaces.
thank you, do you have a related supplementary question, what I will
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:52:48
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:52:49
say is this, thank you very much, Councillor tube.
I am a little surprised that over a five-year period, the council has increased its rent by nearly 15%, but I suppose that, as a result, subject to times that we live within.
the second point I would like to make, basically is this, although the GWP do pay the housing benefit to some council tenants the same as council tax support, you don't do to all I do have a question, so I beg your pardon my question is this what's the council going to be doing regarding the uplift I'll be there the cost of the Eton or 10% whichever the greater which will it be please?
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:53:34
thank you, I absolutely share your concerns about anyone that's facing increased prices, be it rent energy, whatever everything's going up.
and, as I've said, costs affect some people more than others, for sure I am mindful as well of the the people on our council register who are currently paying.
far higher rents in the private sector, so I know there are issues across the district, I would just reiterate for people, for our tenants if they are experiencing financial difficulties and please please get in touch with the welfare team who will do whatever they can to assist. Thank you, thank you, thank you, I believe we have two
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:54:22
minutes left and we have a question from Councillor Walker to Councillor Jim Martin.
Cllr Belinda Walker - 0:54:30
thank you Chairman, I'll try to speak quickly but not too quickly, it's good to see mention of ongoing problems of local bus routes in both the Leader and Councillor Blake more support, there was a further public meeting attended by Michelle Mitchell of Stagecoach last week where residents once again spoke of their frustration caused by the reduction in and unreliability of bus services. Broadmead residents have no service at all at the weekends which leaves them unable to get into town for local services or local supermarkets if they do not have access to a car
given that this Council would support a reduction in the use of the private car and the promotion of more sustainable transport and recognising that not all residents are capable of riding a bike or walking long distances, will Councillor Martin be able to reassure us that talks will continue and pressure will be maintained and that this council will work hard to ensure that some services are restored, thank you.
Councillor Jim Martin, thank you very much.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:55:30
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:55:31
Councillor Walker for your question and I very much appreciate the concerns raised by residents in relation to their bus services. The short answer to you and resonances. Yes, I can categorically say that this Council will continue to engage with the bus companies Kent County Council, the government and all other parties involved to champion the need for better bus services across our district. I think it is worth pointing out that,
focusing hard District Council have no control, no authority or no influence over the bus services, stage, culture or private business to operate and is subsidised by Kent County Council, we can only persuade cajole and encourage, I met with all Kent leaders this morning, in fact at the Kent Leaders' Forum and a stage coach and Arriva both presented John Mitchell again presented and talked about some of the challenges specific to Folkestone.
but through discussions to date between ourselves and and Stagecoach, I know there is a willingness to work together positively to address these issues, which not only achieve improved sustainability of outcomes, but will also support equality and fairness of all residents, and just as a sort of last part of that we will next week in conjunction with stage coach,
follow the
suggestion of Councillor McConville many months ago and commenced our use it or lose it campaign, thank you, thank you, and I'm afraid we've
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:57:26
run out of any more time for questions, so thank you very much and those Councillors who didn't get their questions answered.
you will receive a written answer to those questions.
OK.

8 Announcements of the Leader of the Council

so we'll move on to item 8, which is announcements from the Leader of the Council, will allow 10 minutes for the Leader, and then there'll be five minutes for each opposition to respond, and then there will be a further five minutes for the Leader's reply, so are you ready, Councillor Jim Martin,
I thank you all for being so patient.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:58:16
let me just.
Janet, you may have to point out the real one.
yeah, thank you, but first of all I would like to wish all Members and officers a very happy new year and I hope it will be a good one, because I know it will be a challenging one.
I was delighted to be a guest at the Cheriton Community Centre for the Nepalese community to welcome me as leader in December, the leaders of the four political groups and independent councillor, Paul Thomas, have been meeting regularly as we move towards a Committee system I have attended many meetings regarding article park with government agencies developers and potential joint venture partners and these discussions continue, I attended a training session with many other council representatives in my role as the armed forces champion.
I have been delighted to visit many businesses in our district in CCW, including Eurotunnel, which was fascinating are committed this Council to do whatever we can do to help Eurotunnel face the further challenges of border control legislation which, when introduced this summer may slow access to the port of Dover and the Eurotunnel site this Council, as always is a good friend to business, the Prince's Parade hold. I am delighted to announce that the holding surrounding Princess Road will shortly be dismantled, I'm delighted to announce that the holdings and the concrete blocks that support it will be recycled to article where they will be stored and used as required following.
their announcement to cut local bus services, I have been in almost daily contact with Stagecoach to discuss, indeed I recently attended a 6 am meeting.
the bus garage to establish for myself the feelings of the drivers relocated from the now closed Folkestone, bus garage.
I have been in regular contact with Southern Water and held meetings with them, mainly because of the sewerage on the Copperfield estate lead at the flooding in Newton Road in Dibb Church and the failure of the pumps at Range Road pumping station in Hyde by a further meetings with Southern Water and KCC Councillors.
this coming month, and along with many coastal districts, I attended a meeting organised by the Environment Agency to collectively express our shared concern about Southern Water's consistent failure to meet the needs of their customers, I have attended the Kent leaders' forum to discuss issues.
that affect the councils in Kent. I've attended meetings of the East Kent leaders' forum, which has a more focused view on the issues affecting the East Kent Districts. I joined a focused and higher district councils excellent Licensing Team, on their regular Saturday night, patrol around Folkestone. I was amazed at the warm welcome re we received in every pub and restaurant we went into clearly the Licensing Team is seen as part of the solution to many of the night-time economy problems and not seen as an enemy by the licensees. I joined our local police force on a daytime patrol in the centre of Folkestone to see for myself the types of problems they encounter on the run-up to Christmas. The patrol officers are particularly on the lookout for shoplifters, street crime and organised begging. I was organised, I was impressed by the individual officers. Knowledge and understanding of the specific problems that affect central focus them
I was delighted to attend the panto Beauty and the Beast at least Cliff Hull.
I spent the morning with our frontline staff.
to answer the telephone and deal with all of the problems our residents have to say, I was impressed by the care and understanding exhibited by our team is a very grave understatement.
without doubt, my most pleasurable task this month was to join colleagues, as we said, goodbye to Karen Everett after 46 years of excellent service to this Council, Karen is a remarkable person loved by colleagues and residents alike, we all wished Karen well in her new adventure and she will be greatly missed and cannot pass on on behalf of the Council.
I would like to propose a vote of thanks for 46 years of service to this Council to Karen ever Kew.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:03:44
thank you and Councillor McConville, you have five minutes.
Cllr Connor McConville - 1:03:50
thank you very much very happy to support that vote of confidence for for any staff member who commit so much time to helping our local residents, I want to pick up on everything in your report, I've only got five minutes, hopefully went along.
obviously, that the never-ending saga with those organisations that begin with us one I want to talk about because it's completely beyond the pale, but I think that stage coach I'd like to thank the work of all local councillors.
who who are undertaking all the work within their wards constantly con why being in contact with residents and and trying to do as as as much as they possibly can within within that, to work to you know to offer some glimpse of hopeful of some restoration of some of those key services.
and
we we, we will wait and see what comes of that.
you mentioned border control, I think it's, I think it's quite timely, I think it's very important, I think it's a really important issue which deserves a lot more focus and let's be honest.
if, if plant, if the plan biometric checks are introduced on the 6th of October of this year, it's widely reported that there will be prolonged and detrimental impacts to both our residents and businesses, I think all members should receive more information on on this from some of our key partners and stakeholders, namely possibly the Kent resilience forum?
then Eurotunnel and the port of Dover, because this will be something that will creep up on us very, very quickly.
with regards to issues facing councils in Kent, police can, in particular
again, I think I think members would benefit from for more information sharing on some of those some of those details, I think, with the very precarious financial situation within KCC, these issues again will be the upon us sooner rather than later, one of which are highlighted in a recent Council meeting regarding housing for care leavers and, as I said then it was just the tip of the iceberg.
as for the committee system, I'll say those comments for the debate shortly.
thank you and Councillor Mrs. Hollings fee, and you have five minutes,
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:05:57
thank thank you, Chairman a bit belated, but I also wish everybody a
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 1:06:02
happy new year and I know that it will be a very challenging new year.
thank you for your report later, and there's a lot to digest there, I absolutely agree with your contacts with Southern Water and the Environment Agency and stage coach, I think that's excellent that we continue doing that, I I lie as
as your representative really for the armed forces on on some occasions, I attended the Lord Lieutenant's cadets awards at Queen's University, which was a very interesting evening and one evening actually that I've attended, as previous armed forces champion on many occasions.
lifer Licensing Team.
great that that that all our staff work hard, that's why I was very keen that the CA, the customer service excellence is continued and and people can see how well that people work, and it's and is it gives pride to to.
the staff to see that customer Excellence joining the police great idea, part of also community safety unit, which is very important to this district and do an awful awful lot of work, and and again.
Councillor Blake lawyers is not in there, but you know the the work that goes in the community safety unit and though, and the partnership working is actually quite amazing and and a really credit to this Council, I think.
on Karen, yes, what can I say I was very pleased also to be invited and joined Karen on her last day she are, as you say, she's been here 36 years, 46 years sorry Sue Sue Lewis is going shortly, it was mainly over 36 years so I'm getting muddled up but,
I've known her for I've known Karen for 29 years, I've been a councillor for 29 years and she's been absolutely amazing, very good to me very very.
helpful, nothing was to do much travel, and so I too would join with you in in that proposal and to thank her for her 46 years.
and I think that's all thank you very much indeed
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:08:26
thank you, sorry forgot one thing cargo can't park can't sit down
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 1:08:28
without actually saying the Holden Princess Parade, I do think that we should actually have waited until the consultation, so we knew what we're going to do with it before taking that hold down and putting another fence up that then probably will have to come down and and and although we'll go again waste a complete waste of money and my my opinion and I have to mention that I'm sorry,
thank you, and you have the right to reply, and you have five minutes
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:08:58
allowed for that, Jim Martin.
thank you very much, yeah yeah, obviously there's this, the there's
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:09:06
there's a lot there, but the key issues for the the key issues for me is is.
the quality of our bathing water and any issues around around Southern Water, because while while
stagecoach have engaged with us and explain their position, and I don't necessarily agree with it, but I can understand it.
I cannot understand Southern Water's position at all, because you know Councillor Cooper, said about the testing and investigations etc and it's been going on for years, you know.
this is just so frustrating, and meantime you know.
the quality of our bathing water, you know it goes down and down so, so that is what I would I would sort of highlight, as the I was really the the biggest issue and again, from personal point of view somewhat, the Karen 46 years, fantastic service and just for for those Members who didn't know her, her nickname was corporate Karen.
and I know they did green and purple, I saw delivery, balloons and everything for her, her send-off party, if you eat, she was a stick of rock, if you cut her in half, it would say folks, in our district council in the middle, so she will be sorely missed.
and I would just like you know, very much to pass on the grateful thanks of of everyone to her, thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:10:47
thank you, perhaps we could give Karen a round of applause.

9 Portfolio Holder reports to Council

so I believe we need to seek a proposer and a seconder proposed here
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:11:06
and proposed by Councillor Jim Martin seconded by Councillor Tim Prater, and then are we all agreed, thank you, and we'll move on to
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:11:15
Item 9 portfolio reports, you'll have seen them in your pack and hopefully read them and enjoyed them, so thank you for writing those it's great to get an update.

10 Opposition Business

11 Motions on Notice

there's no debate or vote on this, so we'll move on Item 10, there is opposition business, but we have no opposition business this month and and they're moving on to Item 11, which is motions on notice, now we have one motion on the agenda agenda and this is to be presented by the Leader.
this will need to be proposed and seconded, and then we will open for debate so, Councillor Jim Martin, thank you very much Chair.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:11:56
the majority of Councillors in the Chamber are fully supportive of the move to a committee system and away from a cabinet system, the working group has made great progress and has been well supported by officers and external consultants, the principles and processes of the committee system are not in question.
the problem is the deadline of May 2024 and the lack of time for members to become familiar with the mechanisms and detailed operations of the committee system.
I would therefore like to put forward the following motion this Council believes that the current work on this important project should continue with the view of introducing changes in my 2025, the proposed governance changes will be presented to the on audit and governance committee and Full Council for approval, this will allow more time for councillors to be familiar with and understand the changes involved in the move to a committee system of governance and I move the motion.
thank you, and do we have a seconder Councillor Mike Blakeman?
wish to speak.
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 1:13:26
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:13:28
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 1:13:34
thank you Chair, it's not a happy position to be in to have agreed in this Chamber last year that we would move to committee system in May this year, so it is with some reluctance that I find myself in a position where I do not feel with any good conscience that we can meet that deadline that we set for ourselves that we should put it back by a year not because we don't want to move to a committee system still completely committed to that but as the Leader said,
in introducing this motion there are simply too many unanswered questions about how the new system would work, not to do what you said you will do is not a good thing and we may be judged harshly for that, but I think residents would judge us more harshly if we were to push on with this not to get it right to damage the good work that we've talked about so much this evening that the Council is doing for the sake of of of rushing something which actually we could take a bit longer over and ensure that we get it right.
thank you, this is now open for debate, am I right in thinking that
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:14:35
Councillor Womble had asked to speak?
thank you Chair, yes, I fully support this motion.
Cllr David Wimble - 1:14:47
I'm a great believer in democracy I personally don't like the idea of a committee system having been involved with the Council that had it before, however, if it's the will of the Council to do that, I think it's right that every councillor knows what they're getting involved with, well we've got two options really where we've always pride ourselves on being a council that's run by councillors, not by officers, in order to hand.
the amount of work that is currently done by cabinet system, we would even need a lot more meetings that would go on very late, or we'd be handing work to the the officers to do either way.
I personally don't think it will make or will make a huge impact on the finances of the Council, but at least this way we've got time to look at it and make up our own minds and then, if we decide to do it, we do it but if not we'll all be aware of the facts as to how much work is involved with the Committee system, thank you.
Councillor Mrs. Hollings be.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:15:49
yes, I, I thank you Chairman, while I totally support this motion.
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 1:15:55
I too, like Councillor Womble, certainly did not want a committee system, but a democratic decision was taken, so I've got to go along with it, I've been part of the working group, but it's quite obvious to me that there is so much more work to do and so much more to understand, particularly for new members who have not experienced or have only just had experience of the cabinet system for for a few months really.
and and and need to find out what another system like and we would would cater for. So I'm totally in favour. Think it's the right thing to do. I think it gives officers time. It gives members time to actually experience. Perhaps maybe we can have a shadow committee system towards the end of 2024 25 or 20th year so that we can get used to it, but I I do think having or delaying it for a year is the most sensible and practical and common sense thing to do
thank you, can I just ask that people call me Chair and not chairman, I'm not a man, thank you, Councillor Adrian Lockwood.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:17:10
thank you Chair.
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 1:17:16
this was a key pledge in the May local elections for our great.
I'm going to struggle to explain this to our voters when I'm out on the doors and in surgeries and whatever average we're doing this weekend, if we vote for this motion.
my colleagues in the across our group are going to struggle with this across the rest of Folkestone and Romney Marsh where we have constituents, we voted.
as as a majority in this room, for this to happen.
in May 24 we pledged it would happen in Bay 24, so we're going to struggle as a group, we were assured it was possible for it to be on May 24, but but challenging we understand that.
but I just struggled to understand how how are we going to explain this to people, is it?
what's happened is it Ms mismanagement, did we to be over promise, is it a failure of leadership, how has this happened, how do we explain it to people wow?
that, for me, is the main question we were going to struck with our groups, the voters' confidence in politics, and politicians is already low, how do we?
how the voters of Cheriton, Sandgate, Hyde and Hawkinge gonna feel when, when they find out, we've delayed this, I, I would urge all Councillors to think about that before they vote for this, I won't be voting for it.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:19:03
thank you, Councillor Clive Goddard, for future.
I fully support the
Cllr Clive Goddard - 1:19:11
the Leader's motion, if we could possibly trying to the diet to 2054.
so happy to support their if you just think about that leader, thank you.
thank you and Councillor Tim process.
thank you Chair.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:19:28
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:19:30
as you will all know, there's only one letter between Jim and Tim and our position on this motion, I do not agree with Jim on this occasion, write it down, it doesn't add much.
I don't agree, because I'm an optimist.
that we can do this, we have the goodwill of groups across this Chamber, in fact, we had the majority support of every group in this Chamber when voting to go for the committee system in May, 2024, despite Councillor Holdings be losing,
35th over group at that moment on that vote.
we can do it, the working group can do it, the reason in answer to Councillor Lockwood at your point Adrian, is that it would said at the time that it was a challenging time target to do, it was going to be difficult to do in that time period but that it was possible it remains difficult to do in the period that we have left.
and it remains possible.
we can get in place the constitutional change and we can write a constitution which allows us to move to the committee system 4 May 2020 but and we should, in my view, we can get better. We would end up with a constitution which we would then sit in and be working in, and we would have things that we would look at and we little things that we would change as we as we go through and whether we do that in May 2024 or May 2025. We're gonna have exactly the same thing, you're going to learn things, about how this thing works and about how it is different from what you're currently in and how it is similar to what you are currently in. It is not the asteroid dropping on your head that some people think it is having sat in more town and parish. Council meetings in the committee system, then
anybody in this Chamber, possible exception of one person, then I know well how the committee system works, and it is not difficult if you know your subject, if you know your brief, then you get an opportunity to have more input into more decisions across the Council than is currently the case. At the moment, a number of decisions can only be made by nine people and 21 people feel quite excluded from that process because they are quite excluded from that process.
and we should be in a position whereby we are fixing that as soon as possible and have more people engaged in more of these decisions, and that's not even a balanced question for Eric cabinet or something like that we can have better balance across cabinet if that decision was available to us, but I would still mean there's only nine people involved in those decisions as opposed to opening up decisions across a much wider number of people and I know that the process and so the principle of the change is not being challenged now that's not a question in terms of where we're going. That's not a question in terms of that, I'm assured and reassured that the commitment to making sure that this is delivered remains entirely in place and that it's a timing question.
it's just done, I man optimist, I think that working together, the 20 6 people out of 28 present on the night who voted to go for this in May 2024, can still make this work for May 2024.
that was until I'll leave it there, I've done the maths, I can see which way the wind is blowing on this, but I'm really sorry, I think we had a deal with residents, I think we have a deal with Councillors, I think we had a deal in the Chamber and I'm afraid I'm going to vote to keep with a deal and stick with it being made 2024. I shall be voting against this resolution on that basis. Thank you, Councillor T,
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:23:18
Peter sorry and onto Councillor Stephen scoffing.
no one good.
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 1:23:25
thank you very much for all the thoughts which I've been thinking about. This whole issue in considerable depth, for quite a long time is uncertain. We all have for me it's a matter of competence and I think that when people voted in the election they voted for a competent administration that was working well and that that's one of the key issues. I don't believe that they are terribly concerned about the internal mechanisms of the Council. In fact, most of the people I talk to are rather uncertain as to what Councillor I actually belonged to and what I actually do and the way in which local government works. That's my finding from this current residence of the constituents who I represent, so a competent administration as the number one person. I think that I don't understand what the committee system will actually involve, and I think it's complicated. I think the details of what I want to know about. I did hear some time that there were a number of different committee system
I haven't seen any comparison between the committee systems, I've not been involved in any discussions about them, so do we want a rush decision or do we want something that's durable? I've been thinking about different metaphors and a very simple one is a leaky pipe now the power will come along and say, OK, you've got a leak, I can fix it, yes, I can fix it by whatever deadline you want, I can lash it up
the government will do it, but is that a durable system is that a competence system is it going to last or is the cow plumber going to actually replace the pipe and see that he or she does a good job, I think we want to do a good job and that's why I'm going to be voting for the motion.
thank you and Councillor Cooper.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:25:12
Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:25:15
thank you. Can I just say, members, when we made this decision last year, the purpose of the decision was basically to involve everybody, not just keep whatever is in the Council, so belittle core group of nine people, no disrespect to the current count cabinet far from it, while I am talking about here, is we've got to be careful in respect of what we do in respect of the people who voted for those OK where Councillor Lockwood was mentioning we're going to have difficulty, I mean, if someone comes to see me and says to me Tony you voted in favour of this. I do want to say to Rebecca or rich or even Jimmy himself
why begun back on your word? One thing we don't want this Council to be seen to be doing is being a U-turn council. We're all getting on, but getting things done and we're getting change and a person you think it can be done. I agree with Councillor Prater agenda day, but if if we put this decision back as of next year, we're going to have a limited or restricted limited numbers of staff now, once his employees have got a duty of care to all our staff and that also includes to make sure that the not overworked they're not on distress and everything else, and I would suggest, therefore, that when I'm looking to support the motion, I'm sad to say because I want this to happen and the whole purpose of it happening is to involve everyone. There's 30 people here representing 30 wards and the whole purpose of the motion and everything else, and the committee system. Wisdom involve everybody. We all know what the Arts Council is like and it was irrespective of wherever
it was impervious to change, so I will be voting against them, sorry, because obviously you can make the system in place in May and it can be done, even if we have extra sessions on training or online or be whatever it is, and that's my position, thank you, thank you Councillor Chapman,
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 1:27:20
I stood along with the rest of the Labour Councillors on a local manifesto, we put it together after a lot of conversations with with residents.
they the people on the doorstep I spoke to this as a really pot, this is a really popular step forward, they think that it represents more of a voice for them.
I represent Harbour Ward, it's, I think the 11th most deprived ward in Kent, it's in the top 10% most deprived wards in the country, the residents there don't feel listened to at the moment this was really really popular on the doorstep. I cannot renege on the promise that I made to support this proposal and to make sure it happened at the earliest opportunity. I think it's
really really poor, that it's being proposed, I will not vote for it, I cannot vote for it and I think that.
it I really am disappointed that it's even being suggested I think, that I really enjoy working with the Councillors across this room.
I think that working together we can make this work and we have to make it work, we've promised, and we need to stick to our promise.
thank you, Councillor Godfrey.
Cllr David Godfrey - 1:28:46
Councillor Shoe.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:29:16
thank you.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 1:29:21
I think it's important to remember that committee systems not an end in itself. It's a means to better serve and represent our residents rather than get it fast. I'd rather we get it right and we want to move to a system that's fit for purpose so that we can get on with doing the good things that were yeah we've started doing for the district. I don't want to be in the position where we are having a periodic revamps which takes up precious resources, and I don't want to be left with something that in a few years, just very soon, we might find we need a complete overhaul and have to go through this process again. That's all I don't expect it to be perfect. No system ever is, but I think we owe it to residents to just take enough time to put together the best system that we can.
obviously we wanted to move quickly and get it done within a year, but for me reality and the professional advice that we've had just convinces me that we just ought to take a further 12 months to do it, justice, to get something that is really properly tailored to what this Council needs and so that's why I am gonna be supporting.
the motion just to give ourselves a bit of extra time to get the new constitution right.
Councillor Mead,
thank you Chair five years ago I sat in this Chamber with Jim the
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:30:49
Leader until the deputy leader on the opposition benches crying out.
crying out for a committee system.
we came up to the last election, we promised our residents that we would go to it because of the visibility and the fact that it is more democratic, everyone gets a say within this, we voted it through who are poised, we're ready after the election we were promised that this could be done within a year even if we go for another year any change.
will cause people, issues will need to learn, more, will need training and will have to work out some of a winkle out, the iron out the wrinkles, as they say, so extending it for another year, for me is not the answer we've been asking for this for five years and therefore I must say
I totally support what Councillor Procter said, I think, with the will and the wind behind us, we can actually bring this in May for our residents, that's what, it's more, we can do this if we try it and if we can't actually it's a very poor show, thank you.
thank you, Councillor Kane.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:32:10
Cllr Nicola Keen - 1:32:14
I'm just really disappointed that we've gone back on this yet again with our residents because there were loads of petitions, you weren't a Councillor when the petitions were the people of Folkestone, wanted rid of the committee of the cabinet and the last administration, and that was very clear and petitions were brought to this Council I feel very disappointed I feel almost let down and knifed in the back by Councillors and only
you know, the Leader and the Council of the Green Councillors, I feel stabbed in the back, this was one of the things that was really important to me and to the people of the ward that I represent the same as Councillor Chapman, they wanted it to be a fair system and for the four years previously it wasn't and I'm really disappointed that this is how you've treated not just us but the residents of this town.
and I've just gotten them ultrasound just really gutted that this is how what we've come down to.
thank you and Councillor Walker.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:33:12
Cllr Belinda Walker - 1:33:15
yeah, thank you, Chair, this Council came in on a wave of goodwill for the people of the district, and I can see signs of that beginning to waver little bits. I think this will make it waver even more if this does go through, they trusted us to do this, the whole principles, people spoken for. The motion said that it's better to make good decisions, spent a long time, making a good decision making about one quickly, and that's the principle I actually agree with that, but this hasn't been a quick decision. It's been very as
my colleagues who are on the Council before said it's been voted on before it's being talked about for five years, so it's been a long time coming, I think people will be most disappointed if they don't see it happening.
I have to say that.
in another life I may have focused on and I do sometimes go into schools and talk to students, they are very interested in the the committee system, again, lots of us work of all our councillors on town and parish councils, where the Committee system is the norm, it works extremely well, all councillors get involved all councillors,
I want a bit of a steep learning curve, yes, but importantly, all residents then get represented from each ward, so I I actually.
disappointed and normally being placed on a statutory share Tim's optimism, I'm sure that where there's a will there's a way and we can't get this done.
thank you, Councillor Alan Martin.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:34:47
thank you Chair, so I was one of the people who voted for this loss
Cllr Alan Martin - 1:34:55
last year and maybe naively I was quite open-minded around us, looking at the the options around this, I was quite surprised actually how complex this change was actually in practice and when we had our members' briefing in December, I listened with a lot of interest to a lot of the current portfolio owners and a lot of the questions and challenges they were raising, actually resonated with me, and I could see that this was far more complicated than I first thought, so I think at the very least, this needs to be delayed so that we don't rush into making this complex change too quickly. Decision making the quality of decision making is what really matters. I actually said in the debate last time round, even though I
I voted for it. I wasn't convinced that moving to a committee system was going to guarantee that things would be more democratic, but I was open minded to to see whether we could come up with a with a better system. I'm currently actually quite confused whether the committee system will ever actually deliver on that. Now my question to Councillor Martin actually would be when I listened to some of the issues that his team were raising in the in the session in December. I am not certain that all of those will be addressed simply through the passing of time. I think some of them are fundamental challenges with the committee systems, and my only question is whether it delays enough
Councillor Paul Thomas,
thank you, Chair, I think, to address some of the comments have been
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:36:34
made already where we are with this, and as someone who's worked with the Council officers and with the specialists on this, where we are currently is not a lash up.
it's actually a very well thought through taken advice from specialists, who've actually done this on more than one occasion.
there are other councils around the country who have taken the decision East Cheshire being one of them to defer their implementation by a year, because they saw similar issues to the ones that were discussed and certainly were part of the Members' briefing in December.
I think it is important that we do learn from other councils, because what you'll find if you look around, you'll find there, are some councils actually flip-flopped between cabinet committee cabinet and I've never really settled, and was that because they never actually got the implementation of it right where we are at the moment, I think the process that we're going through and what we're proposing is actually very sound and what we have to separate are those concerns that people have between the process we're going through and the implementation, and I know there was a comment made earlier on, I forget by which Councillor to say, could we go into some kind of shadowing mode and I think those kinds of things when we look at implementation are really really important. So again I will be supporting this motion this evening. Thank you
thank you, Councillor Jeremy Speakman.
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 1:38:05
thank you Chair. I do share people's disappointment that we're not going ahead with this. I am deeply disappointed. I hate the thought of going against our word. However, professional advice has said timescales too short and that kills it. As far as I'm concerned, I don't want to go into something and it does go wrong and subject to. Will you do take professional advice? I said Yes, I say yes, where they were, they saying you should go ahead, they were saying No, the timetables do short
I would feel that would be not very good, so it with deep regret, but I feel professional advice is what we paid for, they are telling us the timescales too short that killed it coming for the time being, let's give it another year why Russia, thank you,
do we have any other Councillors, cancer McConville?
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:38:52
thank you Chair.
Cllr Connor McConville - 1:38:58
I start, I'll just pick up on a couple of points that people have made.
with regards to your comment, Councillor Shupe.
it is is what we have fit for purpose, I believe it, I believe it is, I believe, all the hard work realistically has been done in terms of getting a structure that's agreed having a decision-making process that's agreed, I believe that a lot of the the unanswered questions can quite can be resolved within the time that we have left before implementation and they are largely mechanical in nature.
note, what what does my role look like in a new system, while every councillor will have a new role in the new system, and that's the way it is this, I think?
so I do think that we we, we, we have a system in place that we're working towards, that that is fit for purpose that will be fit for purpose, Councillor Blackmoor, too many answers there was, there were so many unanswered questions.
but obviously it was always the ambition that those conversations would keep going, and we would have answers to every question prior to May, I think you, you've had one sort of session with with the the outside consultant and they didn't have answers to those questions on the very on the very night and it seems to have possibly styled a panic, but none of those questions that were asked in that meeting could not be could not be resolved in my opinion between between now and May the professional advice obviously,
did did suggest that a delay would be possibly beneficial, however, the our own officers' advice, it said that they would be up and running and ready to go with this system in May.
and that that is that is a thing I would be quite happy to say that, so there is the external professional advice, there's also the advice of our own officers, which leads me to say another another comment by borough councillor and I'm sorry, Councillor Schofield,
I absolutely have to disagree with what you said competence.
there is no issue of competency. We have just spent the last hour championing our officers. We have fantastic officers here who deliver excellent services for our residents, to say that we're not going to be competent in a new system to keep delivering those services is is unacceptable. For me we have very competent officers. We are very capable Councillors sitting in those in these rooms that are able to have conversations with those officers and provide insight. Provide information share feedback from their residents. We are a very competent council, regardless of what system we are working in, so I will just say that I think, as I said before, I believe, although all the heavy lifting has already been done,
I think with a few more more open sessions as as was suggested, where people can get a bit more of a feel for things, I am more than confident we would get there, I would say, possibly a little bit disappointed that some Members from some groups possibly haven't done enough of their homework from from June or even from May, really when, when we knew this was coming, we knew we were doing this. We everyone should be should know what this is, what this system, maybe not the very tiny little details of what committee is and that that the general overall way of working the way decisions are taken, that the overall basic mechanics of of the system, whether you've got 10 committees or two committees as we were suggesting, so I think a lot more work probably should have been done in the background by individual councils on their own, so that we all get to a point that we're happy with in May
I agree a little bit with what was what Councillor Thomas was saying, but.
disappointed, I say I think.
having been a part of those of those discussions in those working groups.
I still absolutely believed that we could have got to work to a system of where we wanted to be, and obviously now we're looking at another year.
of possible
people's people's opinions, people's voices possibly not being taken into account with with regards to decision making and that that will rest upon the Leader and the Cabinet.
to ensure that if we're not doing this in name, then it should be done in principle in every decision that you make between May 2024 and May 2025, you should be sat in a room with everyone in this room and you should be getting their opinion, you should not be making a single decision if anyone in this room has something to say about it and that is something I would like to see moving forward and obviously I'm going to be voting against.
thank you, is there any other Councillors who would like to speak?
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:44:26
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:44:31
OK, so we'll close the debate and will ask if soldier sorry days, we
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:44:36
need five people and I've got more than for him to supply him.
OK, before the vote is taken, Councillor Jim Martin has the right to sum up.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:44:57
well, thanks very much everyone for for a very sincere.
the bike.
just to to pick up, so really just clarify some things, the Green party campaigned on a move to a committee system and there is no less commitment to moving to a committee system, so so there is no there is no backtracking on the principle of a move to a committee system.
personally, I very much want to involve everyone in decision making.
that is why the Labour Group has been given all of the chairs of all of the committees.
and indeed, Labour was invited to join his administration but was unable to.
the if you know Eiji Adrian his first contribution, sorry Councillor Lockwood's first contribution, actually put his finger right on it, I think and and I have to put my hands up to this personally, I did not fully appreciate the amount of work involved in this and the amount of work in getting it right now I know we could kind of pitch up and,
have a shot and work out the details as we go, our problem is that we have to have a fully written constitution for the ordnance and governance meeting in February, which leaves us for weeks, five weeks at an outside, to to to to write it all up, and you know in my heart of hearts,
you know,
I don't think we're ready, so that is the Members' briefing that we had before Christmas resulted in more questions than answers. There were yeah. There are lots of concerns there is. It concerns me that you know I'll be seen as not fulfilling a commitment to meet this deadline, but what would concern me more is if I felt we were committing this Council to something that we couldn't confidently deliver and a fully detailed operational constitution with a committee system. I think we're some way off yet I'm confident that we'll get there, but we're not there yet. Thank you very much, Chair, thank you, so we'll then move to the vote and are you going to call out the
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:47:36
names? Thank you
Ms Jemma West - 1:47:41
Councillor M Blakemore for Councillor P. Batemoor, 4 Councillor Butcher.
4 Councillor Chapman.
against Councillor Cooper.
against Councillor Davison against Councillor Fuller
against Councillor Goddard or Councillor, Godfrey.
Councillor Grant,
our apologies, apologies, Councillor Holgate for.
Councillor Mrs. Hollings be 4 Councillor Jones, abstained Councillor Caine against Councillor Lockwood against.
Councillor Alan Martin, 4 Councillor Elaine, Martin
Councillor Jim Martin, 4, Councillor McConville,
against Councillor McShane.
Councillor Mead,
against
Councillor Peter
against
Councillor Ms Goffin.
4 Councillor Shoe.
4 Councillor Speakman 4, Councillor Thomas 4, Councillor Walker,
against Councillor Womble 4 and Councillor Wing 4.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:49:45
OK, so the result is we have 16 for 11 against and 1 abstention, so the motion passes.

12 Refresh of the Council's Children, Young People and Vulnerable Adults Safeguarding Policy 2023 and general update

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:49:58
moving on to Item 12, we have a report on the refresh of the Council's children, young people and vulnerable adults, safeguarding policy 2023 and general update, do I have a proposer Councillor Mike Blakemore, and who would like to second that Councillor Elaine Martin, we are now open for debate.
Councillor Mike Blake, more possibly helpful for me just to introduce
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 1:50:22
this.
the Council's safeguarding policy covers all the key duties and responsibilities relating to our statutory obligations to safeguard children, young people and vulnerable adults. The policy is refreshed every two years to take into account changes in legislation and new practice. The report before you tonight outlines the key changes made to the policy, since the last refresh in autumn 2021 also sets out some of the key safeguarding activity carried out, including handling of safeguarding concerns, as well as audits carried out on the Council's approaches to both adult and child safeguarding. I would like to highlight the work of the latest adult safeguarding audit that took place last year. The Self Assessment Framework, the SDF document is extensive and requires a very large amount of information and evidence to be populated and embedded within the document, following an assessment by a peer panel review the Kent and Medway Adult Safeguarding Board notified us in November that the quality of the safe self-assessment return for this Council was of a very high quality and an example of best practice in SDF completion. In addition to the practical aspect of report completion, members were impressed at the examples provided as these evidence how safeguarding and learning from reviews and other intelligence has led to practice improvements, Overview and Scrutiny considered a report on the policy on the 14th November last year and provided a few additional thoughts including adding more detail to our website on how members of the public report safeguarding concerns. USC also felt it useful to add to the website some anonymous case studies of the types of safeguarding concerns that have been dealt with. This would aid better understanding of the types of issues that could be reported.
and those suggestions to the website are in hand, so I'd like to recommend approval of the report.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:52:16
thank you, and would anybody like to add a further comment?
Councillor, Mrs Hollingbury, yes, thank you, Chair to apologise, you
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 1:52:25
have been signed Chairman, this is supposed to have it, I just like to say, is a very comprehensive report again it was previously in the previous administration. It was part of my portfolio, very, very pleased that outside
interest or
assessment and I never expected it to be anything else except extremely good, and I know in some places we have been a beacon to follow, so thank you very much for that and I will certainly be supporting it.
thank you, is there anyone else who would like to speak on this?
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:53:06
Councillor Laura Davison, he's just to ask a question, really the
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:53:12
changes that you said would be made, following on from comments made at the committee. Do you have a timeframe for when those changes are going to be? Yes, I did thank you for that, Councillor Dobson. I did
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 1:53:22
ask that question again before this meeting, and I'm assured they'll be made by March

13 Review of polling districts and polling places 2023

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:53:30
thank you. Any further comments shall we move to a vote, do we need to raise hands, is it okay, are we all agreed? Thank you OK, so we will move on to Item 13 review of polling districts and polling places, 2023 do we have a Councillor who would like to propose Councillor Tim Prater, and somebody who would like to second Councillor Fuller, did you want to lead Councillor Potter with a thank you? Apparently, I'm
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:53:59
moving the next four items on the balance, so I'll try and keep this at pace. This is a four year statutory review
the pay the review is in front of you and I'd just like to pay credit to our excellent Democratic Services staff led by Paul, who I think are an excellent team, and this review is a another piece of that excellent work there. The review process started through audit and governance it has been through their of in terms of looking at polling districts and polling places and polling stations.
a number a few recommendations were made on change, probing places they will put out to consultation in all by one were.
o all bar one were well received, I think one a number of suggestions came back and a change was made at which is reflected in this report, it was that the representations were taken on board, so the report is in front of you. I'd like to move that we accept our to receive and note the report and to adopt the recommendation list in Appendix 2. Thank you
thank you for any Councillors would like to speak on this Councillor
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:55:08
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:55:10
Pope Polly Blakemore just to say how good it is to see that shonky pavilion is proposed as a new polling station for the Cheriton district, since all the developments population growth up in that corner of Cheriton, it no longer made sense to have the the line-up from polling stations down Cheriton High Street, so that's a very good development to say thank you.
Councillor Mead, thank you Chair.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:55:35
firstly, I would like to join Councillor Procter in thanking all the officers for the hard work that's involved in these
but can Councillor Prater just confirmed that these have been double checked for mobility accessibility, because we have had issues on that before and also confirmed that near the date when we do come to elections, there will be the various accessibility posters, et cetera up to ensure that everyone who wants to vote knows what to do and can access thank you.
thank you excellent suggestion, any more comments from councillors.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:56:11
Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:56:13
Councillor Cooper, sorry, I've got one, apart from the a little tangibly comprehensively, simply be brought, I have got a little group up in St Mary's papers, you're hoping to get a village hall up, and if that gets up and going that may be suitable for a polling station, thank you that would be a concern to review later, thank you.
thank you, everybody else like to speak, Councillor Laura Davidson.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:56:37
thank you, where there is to be a change of polling station and
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:56:44
perhaps residents haven't picked up that this review is happening and it may come as a surprise to them further down the line to find their polling stations changed. I know in previous elections we have had some issues around that with people just wanted to flag up the importance of making sure that people are aware really clearly that there has been a change well ahead of time so they can make other arrangements because in some cases it will be a significant change
thank you any further questions.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:57:15
OK.
you would like to sum up, Councillor Prashar would like to sum up.
just to say all of those are had and the portfolio holder next to me,
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:57:25
who was questioning was only moving this, I'd like to apologise to Gary.
the I'm sure Paul has had all of those, as far as I understand, are access or access tests are done on all polling station, you will have to make sure they are, and there is no that there are in some instances not perfect answers but the most perfect answer that can be picked under the circumstances of what is available is picked.
it would be great that everything was perfectly accessible, we don't have a perfectly accessible building in every polling district in order to make that happen. I'm also confident that, as as these come into place in February that that the advantage of that gives that it gives the Democratic Services Team and others the ability to tell people where the new polling stations are in the very limited number of places whether they're moving within this paper, I'm unsure that that will be taken on board so yeah BA and again Paul has had your comments. Thank you for them and
move the vote,

14 Second Home and Empty Home Council Tax Premiums

thank you are we all agreed to accept the report, thank you, let's
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:58:26
move on to Item 14, the second home and empty home council tax premiums, I believe Councillor Prater is proposing this, do we have a seconder?
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:58:36
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:58:38
Councillor Shoop, Councillor Peter Prater, would you like to outline thank you, this is definitely my portfolio.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:58:44
this is a discuss, a Council motion was just dust in February 2023.
but there was a delay in the royal assent to the bill which would enable this to be enacted, and therefore we are rediscovering this now in order to affirm where we are going on this again to namecheck and call out excellent officers doing excellent work, this paper has been written by Andrew Petra who is behind me and the who leads our welfare and council tax team and is a superb officer and I have enjoyed working with him immensely for the last four five years.
in my local area, the paper is relatively self-explanatory, what it allows us to do is to is that one of the few tools that we have of indicating how people are using the homes, although the properties in our area is on council tax.
where somebody has a property empty that the family could live in, we would like to see it lived in by a family as soon as possible, the intention of the premium empty homes, premium change is to increase the pressure by increasing the amount of council tax at contract at a monthly home earlier so that it gets expensive for somebody to keep a home empty earlier that could otherwise be used by a family, otherwise be lived in otherwise antidote. That is the intention of this change. It is the one of the very few levers that we've got and we're trying to make sure that we bring ourselves using the new government legislation that we use the lever that we've been given or as a
or as firmly as possible the second lever which Royal Assent at which the Bill gives us at the moment, the ability to charge a premium on second homes in the area, and the reason that we think that that is a or a reasonable idea is for exactly the same reason much as I don't have a problem with people have a second home I'd prefer that everyone had a first one.
and this means that if somebody has got it, this is a second home, they are already charged council tax on that second home, but it would be a double council tax so they would pay more into the local area to reflect the fact that that that the they will be using the service in area and they'll be contributing more to the services in the area for those who are struggling to find a home in the area.
there is some discussion and they will have to be discussion across Kent in terms of Harris's, how the money is and how the money would be split and spent at the end of this process, but it is our intention to try and target any extra income at this at those who are the lowest lowest earners in our area. So if we can then increase our support to council tax payers who are currently in receipt of Council Tax reduction and we can increase that from a 75% disregard somewhere up to reduce the amount that they're paying, that is the direction of travel we'd like to see, we have to have some agreement across Kent and across other authorities to see that, so there is an arm wrestle for the next 12 months to go ahead on that, but that's that's the direction of travel that we're seeking. That's the paper, which is in front of you, to make the maximum use or to use homes for housing, people in this area and to use the legislation which is in front of us to do so. I move. Thank you having any Councillors who would like to
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:02:12
Cllr Nicola Keen - 2:02:14
comment or ask questions, Councillor Kane, thank you know what I'm gonna, ask you Tim Councillor Peter, what about Airbnb's because they are a blight on our refuge collectors they pay no, I don't pay towards
having the refuge collective, it's putting out the people whose bins we really really need to step that stamped down on this, there's more, I think Airbnb's than there are second homes, and I think we need to stamp down on it like they've done in Devon and Cornwall, let's look to make those houses homes and if we can't do that let them pay for the services that they take over in our district such as refuge.
thank you has any any other Councillor has got any thoughts, they would like to add to this.
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:03:01
so shall we sum up, and then we'll take it to the vote? Thank you,
Cllr Tim Prater - 2:03:10
yeah, I mean if you want Airbnb, you should be under if it's second best, we should be paying business rates and you should be paying for your own waste collection if you have examples of the authorities, if it's got examples of specific properties, let's not do it on TV right now, but if you'd like to pass them via the Revenue and benefits team they, they have taken action in the past and there are a number of Airbnb Bees. I know one. That's opposite me, for example, but have had to make their own refuse collection because refuse collections will not be taken from it because it's not a home, so if you're not paying council tax on a home because it's because it's a business, you should not be getting that collection if you've got examples where that's not the case, please tell us, please let the
team now and action will be taken, thank you, thank you, so let's take
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:03:56
this to the vote and any other questions, so you can go to Councillor Procter outside of the Council meeting and the details, so are we all agreed to accept this report, thank you.

15 Medium Term Financial Strategy 2024/25 to 2027/28

let's move on to Item 15, the medium term financial strategy 2024 25 to 2027 28, and I believe temperature is proposing this one, also, do we have a seconder?
Councillor Fuller
and Councillor Prater, would you like to introduced this, I don't
Cllr Tim Prater - 2:04:33
understand the enormous reluctance to secondaries.
because I have good news.
the medium term financial strategy papers are in front of you and for those who have looked at all of the words on the here and all the numbers on here and gone.
you're looking at on the report table 1.2 2 there is a little table, and this is where the news.
this is where the news gets good.
you might have heard before that the previous administration, when they pass the medium term, find out the last medium term financial strategy in December last year.
that there was a forecast for this year of a forecast for 24 25 of a deficit of 4.5 million pounds and you know that totalled over 18 million pounds over the four year period of that empty effect, that was a apposite medium term financial strategy that would have seen the bankruptcy of this Council in year three.
I met the medium term financial strategy that was last passed by this Council.
and we're bringing you back a medium term financial strategy for the four years, starting from April 24 25, that now forecasts that over four years there will be a 2.7 million pounds cumulative deficit, and in year 1 there will be no deficit at all.
and for the benefit of the type that means it's a balanced budget is now being forecast for the next year and for the benefit of the Conservative Members who don't believe in this, a balanced budget is where income equals expenditure and you don't have to draw on the general reserve we are now. We are now to a balanced budget position for next year and, as you will see from Machar, we are now when I'm projecting that there is potentially a deficit of 20 or 85,000 pounds for 25 26. I'd like to say that we will get to that. That is a projection going for forward, and I'd like to hope that actually we could get that to a balanced budget situation, but it's like we get to that budget next year, but we'll see these things were forecast. These forecasts are in place to allow us
to work on capital strategies. What we can afford to pay allows us to see where we're going to go in terms of the Council and the way that they have got to. This is through an enormous amount of hard work from our officer team from our members of staff who have engaged with the transformation process, which hasn't been easy to do, but has been the right thing to do for this Council to write signs our management, the right size, our teams to make sure that they fit the organisational structure of which we aspire to and get that in place for the new financial year, and that transformation process in itself has taken about 2 million pounds a year out of the out of our annual running costs, so of that four and a half million pounds projected overspend in the last that was projected last year. About 2 million pounds of that just over is due to that transformation process and I'd like to thank Susan Priest and the entire team for their work on that and green or in personnel and everybody who has been informed involved, because nobody likes transformation, because nobody likes the process that involves voluntary redundancy or any redundancy. It's been
but we're just coming through to the end of that now I'd like to thank everybody who has positively engaged with that
and for the other 2,000,002 and a half million pounds a year we find I'd like to thank all of the Councillors and all of the officers again who have all of the cabinet members who have sat there and have the joy, starting in September, of looking through 5,000 lines of the budget.
most Cabinet Members got to leave at some stage in that process I didn't.
I've got to watch them for 5,000 different lines of that budget and alongside set Susan and Lydia and a number of others who had to serve through that period of time, we now know every line of bathroom have challenged many of those lines and say Can you reduce that bit can we change that do we need to do that when we go there and that is the process that we went through.
for that budget
and and and officers have also been proactive and come back with a variety of savings and suggestions, some of which we've taken and some of which we haven't.
and some of which that we've turned round as Councillors and people have fed back and said you can't do that and we haven't so in terms of on-street parking charges, et cetera, that is not something that we're going to, and that has shaped the budget which we will see in February and will be going through the scrutiny process in the next few weeks.
which will forecast a 0 deficit for next year and shapes what the for what the strategy it looks like going forward from there now.
I'm not going to change my opinion of a four year financial strategy being increasingly guessing with style as you get towards the end of these things, I can't tell you in three years' time, or interest rates are gonna be or inflation rates are gonna be you best guess or most things but you you do so with all the best information that you can.
and we're where we are now to is that we have a four year plan which does not bankrupt this Council, which leaves us in a good financial position, we have a first year of that four year plan, which means that we actually have a properly balanced budget which leaves this Council in an excellent position, there will be very few councils that set a budget over the course of the next six weeks that does not take money out of their general reserve and we're gonna be one of those fortunate councils that can do that and can still invest in those things that we think are important.
so that's that's where we do, if there are any questions, then I may raise in this debate another amendment, I'll try and address them in summing up, but again I'd just like to reinforce the thanks to all of those who have changed the financial outlook of this Council over the last 12 months because it was a very difficult financial outlook a year ago and a very concerning one and this is a much much better picture. Thank you, thank you it sounds like some excellent work has
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:10:54
been done and thank you for your really detailed summary of that.
have any questions yes, Councillor combo,
thank you very much, and thank you, Councillor Prater, have absolutely
Cllr Connor McConville - 2:11:07
no issues with the report itself, very details for lots of good information that I don't have any issue with it all very happy to receive and note the report very happy to adopt a reserves policy but as I am nothing but as I'm consistent and as I've done in all years previous, I'm still under the the belief that I don't think we need to formally adopt this report by as as full Council, I think we just really just should receive a note it
a lot of other councils don't formally adopted a financial people within the LGA, so you don't have to formally adopt MTFS as a full Council, even the person that delivers our financial training to this Council, says we don't need to formally adopt an emphasis to this Council so,
announcements today said that government possibly could be throwing a little bit more money our way, so this this this this this emphasis will change.
next week next month, so we will want to, we won't see it again, obviously until this time next year, but it's an evolving thing, always happy to receive a noted, but as as I have done under the previous administration, I'll continue to to abstain, thank you.
thank you happy, any other comments from Councillor Mrs. Hollings B.
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:12:23
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 2:12:28
well, I really don't know where, to start, to be honest, I don't appreciate a lecture from Councillor prior to, I have to say.
I wasn't going to, in fact I'd sort of save my comments and I haven't made a note of all, but I will be by the budget but I just want to go back and what I've said on numerous occasions the four and a half million deficit that everybody talks about and I know it's shown in the accounts but we saved 1 minute 1.2 million and there was a VAT rebate roundabout 15 1,000,001 and a half million that went into reserves, it had to go into reserves, it didn't.
it wasn't carried forward until the next year, so there was fifth 1.5 million, so it was actually 3 million deficit now, let me just say this Councillor Prater is very well first, well, I've got so many things to say now.
the report can be finalised its portfolio report, I looked at it, I merely spit blood, I was absolutely furious with his and I was good, I did ask if I could say something to him and I decided that I would leave it to the budget meeting but as he's as he's down the previous administration I need to make a few comments.
first of all he talks about
3 million savings, yes, 2 million staff costs, people who have lost their jobs is that God is that good, I don't think it's good.
so sorry, can we just?
thank you, thank you 2 million and speak in a moment.
1 million reduction in services.
you know it, it might be good news for you, but it is certainly not good news for a lot of people in this building, I talked to staff today, I was talking to a number of staff and that they are very concerned that morale is not brilliant, but you think that's good I don't and I'm and I can't secondly, well. Secondly, you had a better than expected settlement from the government. 800,000
you've delayed article park so you're not paying that interest, so there's a reduction in interest and also the same with another number of other projects, so that has not been included in the budget because you've got a reduction in the interest rates.
while interest rates and on the interest, thank you.
then Princess Parade. The amount of money that needs to be written off because you've decided not to go ahead with it, so nothing in nothing nothing to show about that. What are you going to do with the 4 million or more or whatever is whatever figure that is. When I talk to finance officers, I say that looking at it trying to minimise the the the amount, but that's got to go in the revenue budget budget at some point you might not want to include it now, but there's a lot of money, so please please don't say that the previous administration has left you, we you you keep on you keep on now about article park great project, but, as I've said in this Chamber on numerous occasions, most of the people who were here in the previous one
session voted against, it didn't want it, it was only the Conservatives who put that forward and worked very hard to achieve, so for you to say that I, I'm I'm I'm so disappointed and as I said I could spit blood so I certainly won't be voting for.
the
the paper in front of us.
as I've probably as I am, I will keep the rest, I think, until the budget meeting on the 28th of February, but, believe me, I am not going to sit back and hear the previous administration flattened and, and actually Councillor Prater was part of that administration he was in the cabinet it was in the cabinet in the previous administration, how dare he how dare he?
go on like it is, and I would say to you yes, of course it's a good budget.
it
but bear in mind all the things I've said and particularly Princess Parade, there is a lot of money that's got to be written off.
when's it gonna be written off, what budget is it going to be written off in, and when does it going to show I won't be voting, as you can imagine, for this paper?
thank you, Councillor Kane.
just like something clarified when, with the previous administration
Lydia Morrison - 2:17:42
we're in for a long time without any real opposition, can you confirm to me and the rest of the Chamber if we had any redundancies or job losses in that time because I seem to remember that we did and to blame the previous administration or opposition sorry we were the opposition for job losses is absolutely ridiculous, I find it.
absolutely ridiculous that you are blaming an administration that voted against things that you that you wanted, but the rest of the District didn't this was about democracy and about people having a say, people did not get a say on Princess Parade, and if we're in financial problems now Councillor Holland, Spain, it's not the fault of Tim Prater and the opposition.
thank you, Councillor Godfrey.
Councillor Fuller. Thank you Chair, just on the point about people, as it were, just I just want to reassure Councillor Hollingsworth that I'm sure that I'm not the only Councillor in this room that has worked in the public sector in the past and when I did work in the public sector, like most people in the public sector, I went through many transformations, re structures and so on. In fact, in my 10 years in effort I went through for that, I can remember the last one I took redundancy for, so I do understand how it feels to be restricted. I do understand how stressful it is, and I know I'm not alone in that and
ironically, one of those re structures was as the result of a capital project that wasn't very well thought out and caused problems.
we kind of find ourselves a little bit in that position again, but as ever I have full confidence in the officer team in Susan and her team that that we will do the best, that we can to keep in mind and keep at the top of our minds that the this is about people and that we didn't want to be in this position but funding and past decisions of personnel unfortunately,
Councillor Campbell, thank you, as Councillor Godfrey's mentioned, this Council is passionate about this.
couple of things I would like to point out. Many of you were here within the first two weeks of the election, where we had an independent financial auditor come here, whose actual words were the previous administration of left due in very sound financial position. So if that's where an independent auditor says, I'm probably more minded to go along with them, then people who like playing political games, I more so can or abstain from voting on this. The simple fact that it's not that the budget per se and I'm going to wait to see
Cllr David Wimble - 2:22:47
what's in that budget, because there is alarm bells ringing for me of suggestions that the council could sell off up to 49% of multiple to a private developer, which would be a way of sort of selling the family silver to pay this year's gas bill. You know it's got to be reinvested into the Council into other capital projects, so until we see the the actual budget, I don't think it's right for any of us to actually vote for something that we don't know, what's there? So as Councillor McConville and Councillor Godfrey, and everybody else said, it should just be noted that if he goes through a vote I will be abstaining
do any other Councillors have Councillor Tim Martin?
thank you Chair.
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:23:31
Cllr Jim Martin - 2:23:32
I think anybody viewing viewing us would would see that, yeah, there are passions.
flowing,
but that's because Councillors care.
yeah, Councillor Prysor referred to the the euphemistically named Star Chamber, which I found out was not as pleasant as it sounds, so I sat through three days of it, and I'm very, very, very, very difficult because as Councillor Holland speak quite rightly points out at a lot of people,
will will be.
not with us in the future and and and there's a great sadness around that.
however, you know all my, I made a promise that we were not going to join the list of bankrupt councils and we are not so so from from that point of view, I am, I am very, very content with where we are just to correct Councillor Webo that there is no intention never was any intention there is no plan, there is nothing about selling 49% of octopus to anybody.
this this what we see in front of us is amid,
a financial strategy which, I have to say, the majority of our neighbours in Ken, would give their right arm, for there are 13 diff district councillors in Kent, and 12 of them are currently running a deficit.
and you know, the two unitaries are worse than any of the districts, so everyone, yeah, everyone has got these these financial problems and and we're all dealing with them in our own ways, so I just want to add my thanks to the officers to the
members who participated, the portfolio holders in particular, who contributed to building this recovery from something of a financial brink, thank you.
thank you, have we any other Councillors who would like to speak on
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:25:58
this Councillor Cooper, thank you Chair, I've got a couple of points,
Cllr Tony Cooper - 2:26:03
first of all, Como, can we all calm down at the end of the day Rice cabinet, the report and move on because, as Councillor Campbell Gediman groupings that the information in this report, any projects or forecasts et cetera could well be out of date by next week, irrespective many putts games or otherwise we will make decisions obviously and expenditure until February when we know what the budget is.
meanwhile, let's note the report and move on, thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:26:36
thank you, I believe we do have to take this to the vote because people and we will have a Councillor patient will sum up before we go to that, I think there's a reason as various reasons why we have to because people have said they will abstain, so we have to vote for this Councillor Peter carcinoma, please begin career I want rehearsed
Cllr Tim Prater - 2:26:52
notes before but although I accept I was on the previous administration I didn't vote for the world's budget.
against it, so no stripe Butler.
equally, a number of decisions have been made over the course of the last year in terms of policy decisions which have positively impacted the our financial position, if we had still been in Princes Parade, we would be in no end of trouble because even the last administration paused it because it was financially ruinous and it wouldn't have been getting better by now even the person who was gonna buy it went bust.
secondly, on article per the financing model, which was in place are in place and being pursued our other Council at that stage, we have had to make some significant changes to I'm staring at the side of Lydia's head of this amendment, as do I. How strata phases of that, but the financial model that was in place was unaffordable and would have left this Council in all sorts of help, and that is why we are looking at alternative financing structures, radical part which are reflected within this NTS's. However, I'm very grateful for the support received from across much of the Chamber for the work of the empty lairs. I do have to move the recommendations which are there in front of them and I accept that our people are going to abstain
on the second point, but there are three recommendations there, and I ask that I move them all, so sorry, I'm not going to withdraw one.
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:28:19
thank you, so I guess we're asking who's gonna vote for this, we have Hanson all those for, could we have hands in the air and continue to hold them, and yes, the officers can see.
account
thank you and those who are against, can you raise your hands, please?
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:28:44
and anyone who would like to sustain.
OK, so we have 14 for nobody against and 14 who are abstaining, but that carries the motion or the report, I guess.
OK, so, moving on to Item 16, when anywhere.

16 Committee Membership Changes

which is noting I'll be noting, Committee changes.
sorry, it's obvious we don't need to propose this to me, we do OK so.
Cllr Tim Prater - 2:29:34
we have some committee chair membership changes, we need a proposal
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:29:37
for and a seconder is that Councillor Procter again I propose that we
Cllr Tim Prater - 2:29:41
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:29:43
receive a note report and who would like to second that Councillor Jim Martin, and are we all agreed agreed, we know, OK, we're not agreed.
Councillor McConville obviously very happy to receive and note the
Cllr Connor McConville - 2:29:59
report, but just I felt it'd be worth mentioning.
in light of the decision taken earlier that this report reflects
a or or a reduction in the overview and scrutiny committee, which is the main body that scrutinises the work of the administration. Obviously we are supposed to have a committee of 10. We currently have a committee of nine because the Lib Dems do not take up a place because they sit on Cabinet, and now there is an extra spot going through the Green Group, so they would now have five spots in that committee. However, they have seven on cabinet and only four left, so they can't possibly fulfil all five spots in that committee, which means we're now down to a committee of eight, so obviously things might change with the by-election next month, but I think before we get to buy a GM, we all need to sit around a table and ensure that when we approve the Overview and Scrutiny Committee at my html, that we have 10 names on that committee that are going to sit on that Committee and through the work that is required to scrutinise the work of the administration
I just wanted to make that point, thank you, thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:31:07
has anybody else got any comments, I'd like to share, no, I am e-voting, or we are we all agreed.
thank you, and I believe that's the end of the meeting, thank you very much.