Cabinet - Wednesday 31 January 2024, 5:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Cabinet
Wednesday, 31st January 2024 at 5:00pm 

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Slide selection

welcome to the meeting of the Cabinet. This meeting will be webcast live to the internet. For those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed, you will need to leave the Chamber for members officers and others speaking at the meeting. It is important that you use the microphones so viewers on the webcast and others in the room may hear you would anyone with a mobile phone, please switch it to silent mode as they can be distracting
I would like to remind Members that, although we all have strong opinions on matters under consideration, it is important to treat members officers and public speakers with respect, thank you very much.
so can we start with a apologies for absence?

1 Apologies for Absence

no apologies for absence leader, but Councillors Fuller and Holgate
Ms Jemma West - 0:00:54
have indicated that they may be late, thank you very much, Gemma and.

2 Declarations of Interest

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:01:01
moving on to declarations of interest, do any Members have an interest to declare?
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:01:15
I am not seeing any indication for Councillor how guy terrific good stuff.

3 Minutes

we're just on declarations of interest, I don't know whether you've got anything to super thank you very much item 3 is minutes to consider and approve as a correct record the minutes of the meeting held on the 13th of December.
are the minutes agreed agreed right? Thank you very much.
soundness.

4 Housing Compliance (Gas and Fire Safety) Policies

thank you very much everyone, so the first substantive item is item 4 housing compliance bracket, gas and fire safety, clothes bracket policies, and I think Councillor shrimp is going to lead us through this, thank you.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:02:20
thank you, so Cabinet is being presented with two policies for the housing landlord service which cover gas and fire safety in tenants' homes, these policies were originally approved by Cabinet in 2021 and are due for renewal this year, the policies have been reviewed internally by officers and specialists in gas and fire safety and have been updated in line with current legislation and best practice of note are four new pieces of fire safety legislation introduced following the Grenfell review that place additional duties duties upon the Council as a social housing landlord,
these changes are set out in the report, along with a summary of other changes made and highlighted as track changes in the appended policies.
the Council has a duty to ensure the safety of its tenants, and these are the first of six policies covering health and safety compliance that will be presented to Cabinet between now and March.
obviously, gas and fire present the highest risk, and these policies have the most substantive changes out of the six, so that's why we're bringing the those are coming to Cabinet first and the other four will follow in February and March.
cabinet needs to be aware of the changes and the policies are as they are updated, I therefore recommend that Cabinet approve the proposed changes to our Councillor to our gas and fire safety policies, as outlined in this report, thank you.
thank you very much, Councillor, Shrew.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:04:00
are you moving a report, you are jolly good, I'll I'll be very happy to second the report and open it up for.
councillors.
Councillor Plainmoor,
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:04:18
there's one question and no gas policy at 5.00.9 has some reference to
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:04:22
forced entry in all other accounts, as it seems to be called controlled entry rather than forced entry, so I just wonder if that was an update that hadn't.
Councillor should correct, thank you for pointing that out, I'll correct that.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:04:42
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:04:44
okay, any further questions or queries.
on that?
I mean just a general point, our as a stock pain.
generally, not tower blocks.
low level, we have
we don't have to face some of the challenges that the Fire legislation is imposing upon.
others, I think.
higher than 18 metres, or is it higher than 11 metres eating yeah, you get caught in a in enormous raft of new legislation so we can be, we can be grateful for that if, if nothing else, but yeah as the terrible events at Grenfell showed,
fire safety is the most critical thing of all of the array of compliances that we'd have to do.
that we have to comply with, and I'm very confident that this report reflects the seriousness that we bring to this.
to to the matter of a fire safety compliance.
are there any other questions or queries points arise, OK, so we we have a proposer Councillor Shoop, I've seconded, can all those in favour, please indicate.
thank you very much.

5 Service charges 'de-pooling' for council housing - Housing Revenue Account (HRA)

the next item is again Councillor, Shaw, slightly more complex.
a service charge de-pooling.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:06:31
thank you, so this report is seeking approval for the Housing Service to start a project of the pool, our service charges for council tenants and to implement an accurate and fair charging regime across all service charge elements.
so this should make it the charges equitable and transparent, in line with good practice, government policy and meeting the regulator of social housing's new consumer regulation measures.
so a service charge is a charge collected to pay for services that are undertaken to the communal parts of the building or estate, and so includes things such as ground maintenance, heating and cleaning for communal areas, maintaining car park areas and a communal area, fire detection and so on.
service charges are additional to the service that is covered under rent for occupation of a home which includes its general management and repair costs for the individual home in question, so Members are asked to note and agree the recommendations in this report, namely the initiation of the service charge de-pooling project, of which the first stage is to ensure that we can accurately breakdown and apportion all service chargeable items per block and unit to note that the current standard tenancy agreement does not have adequate provision for service charges, the project will therefore include updating the tenancy agreements by formal variation notice.
and this work will be undertaken by the Housing Team over the course of the project that the project will take approximately two years to undertake and fully implement and which will require significant consultation.
it is proposed that the new charging regime would commence in 26 27 officers, will ensure a reporting back to Members at key points during the project to the appropriate committee to ensure effective oversight.
and consultation will be a key theme throughout the project, early engagement will be made with all the tenants and private owners that will be affected by the project ward members will be included in consultation plans, as will the Strategic Tenants Advisory Panel step to ensure that residents are supported throughout the process.
as the report highlights, the Council already levies a deep, pooled service charge to leaseholders, of which we have just over 200, and this is in line with specific legislation that governs this, so we are able to break accurately breakdown charges by block and unit and charge each leaseholder only for those services that we know they receive.
as you will appreciate, a portioning out service charges to over 3,000 tenants is a major undertaking for the Housing Team, which is why it will be undertaken over two years.
before any charges can be applied.
however, it is an important piece of work as the disparity between what the services costs the HR and what's covenant currently recovered through service charges is estimated to be substantial, full cost recovery would mean additional income that could go towards the council's new build and acquisitions or ambitions over the coming years, So Council cabinet is therefore asked to agree the recommendations to ensure that the Council's housing service can continue to deliver against its key priorities, and I'm happy to re move the report.
thank you very much, Councillor Chamber.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:10:30
members, any questions or queries or Councillor statement.
yeah, it's just on the
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:10:38
wreck options and risks they've been considered, am I right in thinking that potentially we could almost be doubling the revenue from.
at a due pooled arrangement from
yeah, we haven't actually done the calculation yet.
at this point, we are estimating that there would be at least another 400,000 per year in terms of, and it's currently roundabout 400,000.
so right.
I don't know the Executive.
of our rental income around from from service charges. No question, but presumably there will be winners and losers on this. I think we, we've talked about them yes, and I guess some will I mean they could be looking at doubling their service charge, potentially it's possible and on your risks, our options and risks. Your recommendation is to go for the service charges in one go. I just think that that might be quite a lot for somebody to swallow who's finding that their service charges doubled effectively
but I appreciate there's a long stage process, I'm just not flagging that really, and I'm just a little bit surprised that your deep rule, the judges in one go rather than a phased operation, was the recommendation, but OK, thank you for that question so best practice from other local authorities that we spoken to who have already depor their service charges indicates at this stage that applying revised service charges in one go.
it is the best way to to do it for a number of reasons.
there is quite a lot of administrative work, obviously, and in doing so.
it is quite a lot of work into in terms of the actual financial side that you need to do within the process, but also it so it gets quite complicated if you're applying it to certain groups of tenants and then other other groups of tenants at a later stage once, but what we have made clear in the papers that once the first part of project has been undertaken which is a portioning it down and doing all of that work, we will be in a much clearer position to be able to determine which groups of tenants and will be looking at a slightly low larger or higher rates and their service charges and so if there is any likely,
significant impact on any particular groups of tenants will take our opinions and our options and our recommendations back to members at that point in time to allow decisions such as whether a phased approach should be considered at that point.
thank you very much.
Councillor Huggett,
Gill Butler - 0:13:22
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:13:24
is it anticipated I can spot in the report, there will be any change to the actual service being provided to residents who are could end up paying more money, although basically gonna go on to pay more money for the same service, or will the extra income allow the opportunity to provide a different, better or otherwise changed service?
Gill Butler - 0:13:48
we're currently actually not charging what we should be charging for the service that we're providing, we are hugely subsidising that that service, so actually it is for the current service, we're not looking to improve the service per se, except for the fact that when we retender procurement we were always looking to improve the service and we are constantly having
in-house ways of improving the service that we provide to our tenants.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:14:25
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:14:27
Councillor Peter, thank you just to follow up on the point that Councillor Speake was making.
I welcome what what Giles said in terms of obviously, before we know what the impact on an individual is, you have to go, you have to travel quite a long way down this road and I have to get the costs, etc and I think at that stage if it looked like before any particular tenants or groups of tenants that we were looking at.
very significant percentage increase immediately, in terms of that, hopefully we can then look at what the cost of damping or phasing in mat increase over a year or two is, I fully understand that there are expensive and difficult ways of doing that and harder, knees, harder and easier ways of doing that, amber any level of complexity on top of well it costs that just charge it is a level of complexity but there are ways of of of to taking some of the burden of that even if it's flat rates and the burden of that in the first year to step it in over a period of time.
depends what the numbers are. I look forward to seeing the numbers when this process has been gone through and started the and then we can take a take every one that then I think that many of us would probably for you know if somebody was facing immediately doubling of service fees, if there was a couple abandoned paying for services doubling immediately, I think that would make us uncomfortable. We'd probably wanted to see some sort of damping for phased in over a period of time at that stage, but let's see the numbers, I know that's bad progress, let the report go ahead and the progress be made. Bring the numbers back and then we can see what level of impact there is there then
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:16:07
Councillor Blackman not being funny here, but we often are accused of having consultations, which I mean are meaningful and not just made here of consultation being central to it, but what exactly are we consulting on, because it seems this is more about explaining to the residents what's going to happen, they're not going to have a choice in this other than perhaps the way in which they pay their service charge, so perhaps you could explain what what what do we talk about when we talk about consultation in this context,
Gill Butler - 0:16:37
in terms of the consultation, it's a number of things we currently do a great deal of consultation with our leaseholders in terms of the services that they pay for, we are, in fact, we do have legislation to make sure that their service charges are transparent, fair and that we can be held to account for that they get the service that they actually pay for basically,
and at the moment, our tenants are not given that same level of consultation because they pay a flat fee for services, and it's just across the border, it's poor service charge, so the consultation is twofold consultation over bringing this in and, as we've discussed the the elements of it so for instance if somebody is going to be,
looking at quite a significant increase in their service charges, we would be looking to communicate and engage with those tenants at an early stage as possible to ensure that they understood what was happening and also putting in place measures to help and support them to be able to pay that as well, it should be said that if people are on housing benefit universal credit element of housing that this will qualify and be eligible under housing benefit universal credit so that's a key element here if there are certain things or the communal areas that come are eligible.
and there are only a very small, two or three things that fall outside of that that are knowledge eligible. I hope that explains the situation yeah, I mean I wouldn't want to labour the point, but it's still to my mind, who's in consultation because it's it's information sharing on engagement is explaining a change that's happening and that's all good but consultation suggests that there are different options being offered to people different choices that they might have
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:18:29
about, whether they do it or not, and it doesn't feel like they're going to be offered a choice it out and I completely understand why
I think I do agree with this, I think it will be fairer in the long run, so I'm not disagreeing with the thing I just I worry about, I was talking about consultation when it's not a meaningful consultation.
thank you, I take that point and perhaps we can say it's engagement
Gill Butler - 0:18:49
and communication rather than consultation at this early stage.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:19:00
I think my getting my head round, a de-pooling, was really to start from the basis that it is currently an unfair system.
as Councillor Speakman said, there was there's winners and losers, and if someone is facing a significant increase, it means they have effectively been underpaying for they're not, therefore weeping under charging, so so it is a much fairer system and ultimately, if you think of the number that we are subsidising this from the HRA,
then, ultimately, it's the affordable rent that is subsidising.
leaseholders, so it is it is, or you know, what we've got at the moment is flawed, I think the only reason why councils haven't put this right in the past is because it is such a mammoth piece of work to admit.
so you know best of luck to two years, a hard grind, but ultimately we will end up with a much fairer, transparent system, and I think that's gonna be worth the effort.
and so we have a proposer Councillor Shore, but I don't think I didn't second, it would someone else care to second-guess her or Councillor Blake, Moore, vote in favour, please indicate.
are you abstaining because your young partner discussion yeah, for sure, OK, Councillor Fuller, thank you very much, OK, yeah.

6 Disposal - Hay House, Hythe - Housing Revenue Account (HRA) Grade 2 Listed Asset

OK, thank you moving on to Item 6 hi house in Hiv, Councillor, Shrew.
thank you.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:20:56
this report informs Cabinet that the current position regarding Hay House in Sir John Moore Avenue HIV, a Grade II listed property which belongs to the HRA A, and the report seeks approval for the Housing Services recommended option to dispose of the property so following an extensive viability study detailed in the report.
that considered the age and condition of the building, the cost, to refurbish the property and bring it up to modern and energy efficient standards is prohibitive.
whilst we fully accept that Hales's, of course, a historic building built in 18 04 with a rich history connected to the director of the Royal military canal, Major General John Brown, when the Council took the property on in 1976 and him converted it into six flats for social housing tenants,
due to the difficulty in maintaining such a listed property and the lack of investment during the East Kent Housing Management period over the years, it has sadly fallen into a state of disrepair, the housing team are working on ensuring that any health and safety repairs of course completed, however, the indicative cost of remedial works is estimated to be over 1.2 million pounds.
so while we recognise that this is a major disruption for the tenants involved, some of whom have lived in the
in the property for many years, but as detailed in section 5 of the report, the Neighbourhood Management Team has had initial discussions with tenants involved and, if the recommendations are approved today will continue to work with the tenants to secure suitable alternative homes.
members are asked to note and agree the recommendations in this report.
and that's, namely to approve the recommendation that the Council disposes of Hay House with the funds generated used to supplement the HRA capital budget to provide new, affordable energy efficient things and secondly, to provide delegated authority to the Director of Housing and operations to market the property and accept the best offer for the Housing Revenue account and I'm very happy to move the report.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:23:30
thank you very much, Councillor Shaw, I think it is worth saying that we had an e-mail today via Councillor M Jones, from the Hyde Civic Society who have asked if they can be allowed time to.
try their best to.
generate some funding, you have a discussion about a lottery bid or going somewhere else to try and find someone to money.
my reply was, this is the start of quite a long process and and it's a process that should you know, someone turn up with a shedload of money that are able to give us to to to bring this property back to its inappropriate condition. We wouldn't rule that out, so so that's that's what I've said this. This decision starts a process to decamp the the the residents aim to move in that direction, but should someone like the White Civic Society or indeed someone else pop up and wish to give us a load of money in order for us to retain it as social housing or we would certainly give that our full consideration. So that said,
members.
Councillor Huggins,
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:25:01
Councillor Watson, you take all of the words I'm sorry, but it was to say that just through my heritage lens and
and my obligations there, I feel very keen to ensure that we are exploring all opportunities in terms of preserving what is an important heritage asset, and so you echoed the sentiment he shed, and this will show the chairman support in that regard.
Councillor Schofield yeah, I'm on the same page here as it were, I I
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:25:32
understand the reasons why we should dispose of this building and I can see the advantages of having 840,000 pounds at which we can put into a new purpose-built housing, and I think that would be really valuable and a worthwhile thing to do if we can keep the door open to the highest civic society. I would really welcome that in the in the short medium term, without causing unnecessary delays, and I'm aware of other organisations like the, for example, the landmark Trust which, by historic buildings, of this type and and to refurbish them at their own expense and then let them out as holiday home, so there are avenues which I think this head, civic society could usefully explore, but I am, as I say, I'm in line with the previous comments
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:26:19
Councillor Procter, thank you. We are also broadly in line with that.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:26:20
If this wasn't housing, it would be considered potential for listing as an asset of community value that another organisation could have a period of time to make a bid to purchase, not give us cash to make it nice, but literally by themselves and do their own thing with because it's housing, it is excluded. I understand, from being listed as an asset of community value by thinking our heads, if any of those organisations did make an expression of interest that what they would be seeking to do is to buy attempted to use it for such a use. That would be something that we should listen to, but I understand you know that you can do so, but there isn't the statutory timescales to do so, but they did genuinely have to see if there was
take that on and see if there's a use for it also say, obviously, the capital receipt would then be reinvested in housing, and that would be welcome, obviously 830,000 pounds doesn't buy as many flats as it used to either. I'm I'm hopeful that we would get the replacement number of flats out of it for the HRA, but not absolutely confident but we'll sit see where that goes to.
but yeah, I saw him on the same page on others, I I hope that we would listen to any representation that came in from a community group who were seeking a little bit of time to see if they could explore getting money together in terms of purchasing in it and keeping it and using it for such a community scheme but we'd certainly listened to that unsure.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:27:57
the Councillor Fuller, thank you Chair, I just had a question about
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:28:00
the performance metrics I noticed, obviously the cost of value was the one area it found on going to market, so could maybe officers explain a bit more about that particular metric and why a developer might ignore it as it were or someone who might buy it might ignore it.
anyone want to update us on this.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:28:20
hello, Councillor, Fuller.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:28:23
that that's a question that we'll have to check back to the development team, because neither of us would be able to answer that, I'm afraid, sorry.
Andy you're able to chip in.
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:28:35
that's essentially showing that what we have to spend on it now to get it in the shape, and also we talk about the 1.2 million pounds in there. That's not talking about going out to 0 carbon as well as the pledges we've got with the rest of our stock. We have looked at it, we've been looking at this since 2020 when we agreed the first report. This is not something we bring to you lightly, it's not something that we want to disposal, it simply does not stack up without saying that the cost of that is 123%. So if you look at the value of a paid 100% more, you've got to spend money to get that value of the 123%, so it's going to cost 23% more than it's worth
to do the work.
and when you put that in comparison to what it's worth now and what we're trying to achieve in the HRA, with all the competing demands of all the way through from compliance retrofit capital projects, new-build.
it's a big chunk of money because it's worth 840,000 pounds potentially.
one and a half million 1.8 million probably slow down and get it to a decent ABC rating.
put those numbers into the business plan which we've obviously done and will obviously be the new build agenda that we have the members, one is a very, very difficult thing today.
just to confirm on that, that's also well, because, obviously, that
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:29:48
metrics the same for the indicative one sort of market rate, as it were.
well, for the second metric that you've done so, presumably what you're saying is the minimum that even a developer would need to spend to get it up to code or whatever it would be 123% of.
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:30:10
improvements enough simply for simply said yes, but but now.
for a start, if a developer came in and they were a builder themselves, they wouldn't be contracted now, so it's cheaper for them to do it, we're also looking at a social rent on these properties at the moment that feeds into all of our metrics so your internal rate of return and everything else you net present value and all of that is calculated from a capitalised rental yield.
which is based on social rent or taken out for a market rent which the building could probably command, obviously the income after the expenditure would be far higher.
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:30:49
Councillor Scotland yeah, I'm just seeking advice on this, bearing in mind the comments that we've been making and the feeling around the room, this is a civic building of considerable interest in historic value, particularly as it's the soul, so I think that the listed building
her description talks about how it is the only surviving part of the Napoleonic period and it has part barracks, complex.
is, or do we need to?
consider recommendation 3 to one and amend it, or how will our officers take on board the comments that we've just been making, is it's just a procedural issue really?
boo pplicant, if you would taxbase and are seeking advice on yeah, it happens now absolutely and well listening to the the strength of sentiment from him in in cabinet and the comments that you've made. Certainly officers have noted those and they don't really affect the recommendations per se. I think recommendation 3 allows the the authority to progress with the process which the Leader is quite
Dr Susan Priest - 0:31:55
clearly outlined is not going to be quick,
and it allows us time to engage with external parties in order to satisfy that, so I don't need, I don't feel the need to advise you to make a change to the recommendations at this stage, I think the sentiment and your comments have been noted as well as the strength and in unanimity of those comments if that's helpful, very much Dr Priest, thank you.
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:32:20
it's easy for you to say, Councillor Hulk.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:32:23
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:32:25
I just wanted to is it is at the same position for recommendation, 2 I was going to ask similar, the wording is very definitive and I'm mindful of supporting a report that has such language when the centre in the room maybe wants to just take a slight step back in terms of protecting opportunities for community discussions a similar question in relation to
yeah, I mean that my my professional advice to you is that I don't
Dr Susan Priest - 0:32:50
think you need to change the recommendation, because the recommendation is that if there are any receipts, then they would go back into HRA rates in HRA assets and it's appropriate that those funds go back into that account there are,
lots of rules and regulations about the use of HRA assets and funding, and not switching accounts, which I won't go into here, because it's a very extensive, and I really don't you've got an awful lot to get through tonight, but my advice is that you, don't you don't need to change? That recommendation is covered, your sentiment is absolutely
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:33:30
covered by that Councillor should thank you fully yeah
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:33:33
supportive of the it's obviously a very emotive issue wanting to preserve the the the history here.
absolutely on board, with that just want to flag that.
the longer it takes to reach a conclusion of whatever happens to this.
you know, it's using tenants' money.
yeah, it's a bit of a money pit and it will be tenants' money that goes into keeping. You know, we can't spend 1.2 million on it, but the longer we have it, the more money we have to spend on the day-to-day maintenance to keep it watertight et cetera, et cetera, so I I think we do need to bear that in mind that we can't you know we can't put it on hold for forever and you know fantastic if some, if a community organisation can come up with the money wonderful
but we do have to bear in mind that, yeah, we can't sort of delay forever.
yeah, I mean maybe to conclude, you know, let me be categoric, in
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:34:37
terms of this is that if any community group, or indeed any other group, come forward with any ideas, suggestions, you know, we're very, very, very happy to meet to discuss to try and find a way through this.
and that's before it goes on the market, so it is, it is an opportunity for anyone who has you know, a kind of semblance of hope around this Building to come and talk to us, and we will very, very, very happily engage with them, there will come a time and Members will be fully notified on this when you know we've exhausted every
every every enquiry and then it will go on the open market and one that is not the end of the story of this building.
the the we don't know who may buy it, we don't know what the future for the building is, but it is protected, it is listed, so you know it, it has a future this building and it just may not be the future with us as 6.
flats for social housing.
good so Councillor shrub moved, I'm happy to second all those in favour, please indicate.

7 Draft Housing Revenue Account Revenue and capital original budget 24/25

thank you very much, everyone right, thank you, so now we move on to the part of the agenda, which is the the Councillor Prater show.
so I think we'll be introducing almost every other every other item on the agenda, so of a buckle up.
Councillor Procter.
am I I think, that the baton classes after this item, to be honest, I
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:36:33
was gonna, have a very much pass this back to Councillor Shoe.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:36:47
OK, then, in that case, I will grasp the baton Shoop to pray, to go.
this Council obviously takes our HR responsibilities very seriously, we A R A.
landlord of somewhere around three and a half thousand properties, and we seek to be a very good landlord.
and we have in place a budget and a capital programme and a 30 year plan which is in front of us this evening to not just retain those properties but to improve them and make them all better to make them all all more energy efficient.
to get the carbon 0, which is not just a aspirational target but is better for tenants, because it means that they spend less money running their houses and we want to build more of them and we want to build more of them because we want to be a landlord to more people because our social rents are a better rate than the private rents that more people in this district.
and we have to be clear that, although we own three and a half thousand properties, there are many, many, many more people in private rented accommodation in this area, paying more money than social rents who would love to be a council tenant who would love to move to one of our properties who would love to pay the social rents which we offer and can't because we haven't got any more.
I am therefore although.
it's not comfortable for councillors, it's not comfortable for me.
it's not comfortable for anyone else in this room to be looking at making the maximum increase in rent that we are allowed to do, which is what we are proposing here by increasing rents by 7.7% there is a straightforward choice and straightforward choices if we think if we don't increase our rent by that much and we can choose not to do so.
then we have to make some spend less money on making houses better, or we have to spend less money on making houses less energy efficient, or we have to spend less money on building new houses.
and all three of those things are rock solid priorities for this Council.
so in order to achieve those rock solid priorities for this Council and in order to give the HR team the housing team, the tools which they need to do, the job that we're asking them to do.
that is why the recommendations are in the report in front of you, so they are as written, but they do increase the increase of dwelling rents by within the HRA by 7.7% shared ownership rents, by 9.4%.
increase in service charges has discussed, but also improve, approving the 30 year business plan and the medium term capital programme.
all of which are designed to help us get to the stage whereby we are improving those houses, we are building those new houses for the future and, if the Mark, if the environment changes, if the government changes, if finances change significantly, for this Council to allow us to look at those things and build more houses in the future and to improve things quicker and improve energy efficiency of those homes quicker great.
I'm sure we'll take that opportunity if that opportunity arises, but you can only Bill, you can only build a plan in the environment that you'll sat in the environment that can foresee, and this allows us to do that, and the one other thing to mention is that of course it's an increase of 7.7% on the Putin dwellings but those who are on housing benefit those who are receiving support towards there the cost of their rent.
due to the increase in the NHS rate they will also be, they will see that our financial support that housing benefit increased in line with that rate as well, so those who are the poorest in our area are the poorest of our tenants, who are getting all of their rents covered.
by housing benefit, this will impact on not at all, it will not make them worse off.
and that is good. There are obviously a number of people already seeing a proportion of their income or none of their income covered by that, and then it is, of course, sad to see the to see that increase on those, but that increases higher for those in private rents and ma am those people who are in private rented houses are seeing prices significantly higher than anything that we are offering in terms of social rent, so it's not with joy in our hub that anyone is proposing that, as there are those rent increases, but it is with joy and our heart that we've got something that can say we will be back into the building council house market and that we will be improving the standard of the quality of our hands and a great deal of joy that we will be improving the LGB energy efficiency of all of those all of that stock as well. So I am happy to move on that basis and I look forward to the work which has already started
including in Ross House in Sandgate, have an excellent example of energy efficient housing and investment in the stock for the future, I'm happy to see that rolled out across the district, I thank you very
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:42:20
much, Councillor Shaw, would you like to add you are very happy to second?
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:42:27
it's absolutely imperative that we
can build as many acquire as many more council houses as we can, as Councillor Prêtre said, you know, the tenants, who may have very similar financial circumstances, but in the private sector will be paying.
year can be paying double what our council council tenants are paying so yeah very mindful of the huge pressures people are facing, we were with rents in the private sector which, yeah, we just need to to do all we can to to secure more council homes so that we can offer the lower rates that the the social social rents and the security of tenure as well.
but we are able to offer as a
with our Council tenants so yeah very, very happy to second, this, thank you very much, Councillor should Councillor Fuller.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:43:32
sorry, I just wasn't quick enough to get in to to declare an interest
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:43:38
in and say that I'll remove myself for this item because I am one of those council tenancies.
thank you very much.
OK.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:43:47
I wonder, would I be able to ask a question in terms of a comparative kind of snapshot in terms of rent?
what would a typical you know, two bedroom flat in Folkestone be in the private sector?
compared to a two bedroom flat that we would offer,
anyway, it doesn't have to be exact, you know or feel.
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:44:21
Andy thank you, or I can give you some very current examples so obviate which has and will produce us as a Council.
I think the two bed flats there range from about 9 7 5 up to about 11 50, so are social rented flats would probably be around 35 to 40% of that.
as a god, so if, if so, we're talking 300 to 400 some something like that.
in comparison and of course, so Dover Shepway area, two bedroom houses 159 pounds per week lobby for a house that would be more expensive than the flat 100 160 pounds per week.
so selling fact, it's it is probably 25% yeah.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:45:07
so I mean, I think, the yeah we have to bear that in mind as a backdrop to these two these discussions, I think Councillor prices' points are all well made in terms of if we want to do anything more to change the situation for,
year and provide more and provide better social housing, then then this is necessary.
Councillor shoves points are a very, very well made, and I'd add, in terms of earlier we talked about gas safety.
a policies and regime, we talked about our fire safety regimes, there's been many mentions of our decarbonisation programme, these all come at a cost now, even when we factor those costs in, we're still less than half of the of the market right.
so yeah, the I G, I just set that out as a kind of backdrop to these discussions, because 7.7% is or is or is a lump, there is no doubt about it, but even when we apply that percentage we're still so far below the market level we
there are almost is no comparison, thank you Councillor, this place.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:46:35
Councillor S Bateman,
I will get used to.
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:46:50
sorry about that, I keep forgetting yeah on the business plan.
satisfaction surveys is obviously a way of it's important way of gauging what.
basically, that we are being a good landlord and I was pleased to see that I, overall the satisfaction surveys percentage across providing a safe, safe home how we deal with repairs and maintenance is up from 2022, looking at 20.23 and satisfaction that we treat tenants fairly and with respect is at 72% compared to 68%.
which is why, as a bit puzzled by the fact that satisfaction with complaints handling had gone down from 50% in 2022 to 34% in 2023, I was just wondering if anybody could give me a view on that.
and I attended Overview and Scrutiny last night where, where this was explained in insomuch as everyone's not quite sure, but we feel that it's more to do with the complaints procedure rather than.
a strong element of dissatisfaction, perhaps Jill you could.
enlarge on that.
yes, yes, of course.
a number of things, firstly, this is in terms of benchmarking with other housing providers and social housing providers, this is actually across the whole sector complaints tenant complaints has has reduced because we do compare ourselves through these tenant satisfaction survey and the tenant satisfaction measures.
so we're all looking into this at the moment, there's a, there could be a number of reasons, obviously it's very high profile at the moment housing and in particular some of the things around.
damp and mould and Arabs Lauren things like that, but also it could well be as well that the the the way that we word the questions this is the first year that we've been doing these these new tenant satisfaction surveys and the way that is a prescribed wording that we have to use that comes from the regulator of social housing and it doesn't really clarify what is meant by the word complaint.
and some tenants may mean, for instance, I give you an example, they may contact us and say that the that they would like to haven't prepared completed they may consider that to be a complaint that something's gone wrong in their house and that's a complaint we wouldn't consider that complaint within housing we consider that to be a request for service.
however, then, if, after a week or so's time, they haven't had the service dealt with, if they then contact us again and say have another service, that would then be a complaint, so I think there's there's a bit of a problem here about clarification and I think the whole sector has recognised that that we might need to do some some clarifications and changes to the survey when we do it this year.
yeah, yes, because I mean it seems out of kilter with the general overall satisfaction, that's why it just kind of jumps out at you, it doesn't seem to make sense, really you know, they're satisfied with that, you'll treat they're treated respect but that the complaints have gone up, please bit odd, so thank you very much for that.
Gill Butler - 0:50:18
any other Councillors wish to seek clarification or other questions
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:50:21
general, good so.
we have a proposer, Councillor Peter, we have a seconder Councillor Sean, all those in favour, please indicate.

8 Draft General Fund budget 2024/25

thank you very much OK, moving on to the next item is, I think, definitely Councillor Procter.
item I draft a general fund budget 24 25.
thank you, Leader.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:50:57
I am not going to do this in the full glorious technical aversion which extends to 90 minutes with interval, but I will give a the the some edited highlights of where we are in this budget, as Council will remember and Councillor General Jenny Hollings be in particular as one point for in this report states that the MCFs passed last year identified a general fund budget so shortfall of 4.5 0 1 million for this Council for the year 24 25.
that was clearly looked at, there was a large empty, have a shortfall as exp.
expected for this year as well for this year that was got down to a shortfall of 1.8 million pounds in the year in terms of the budget.
which we will discuss later. We are performing well against that, but was still taking 1.8 million pounds out of reserves. It was presented as a balanced budget. It was not. It took 1.8 million pounds last year to fund our budget for the year. What we are proposing this evening is a budget that takes no money from the General Reserve. It is a genuinely balanced budget. Income equals expenditure. Now those of us in this room and those of us who've been watching those of us in this room over the course of the last six months know that getting to this place has been a
a very long project and getting to this place is entirely due to the hard work of officers, the Chief Executive, the Directors and the staff and the Councillors of this organisation, who have been through some very difficult processes.
to our transformation project, which is essentially a voluntary redundancy programme, a process and a reshaping process through looking line through line through 5,000 lines of the budget looking for savings.
you are literally powering away at some of them in in in budget, can we save that 50 pounds of that line to art, where I'll be big numbers to be saved in things which brought us broadly by the at by a December last year we thought we'd close to the gap from from where we started at the 4.5 million pound gap that was originally where we thought we were down to 638,000 pounds gap.
which felt like good progress and felt like we had a lot further to go.
the Government's local government finance statement in in December, but we are effectively received at the end of December, sorry, 18th, 18th December, will grave on my mind, gives you something to read over Christmas, was, I'm not gonna say this often rather better for this Council than we thought it was going to be.
we had had we had to taken a
I think the answer is meant to be prudent, pessimistic view of what was going to happen in it, I don't think we'd counted any chickens whatsoever.
and not only did the chickens that we thought might come in, but we haven't counted come in, but a couple of others arrived as well, that takes us to with those with that settlement and where we were two previously and a couple of others, I think I can call them relatively small changes for instance the table that we have in 2.9 in your report.
which shows the the movements from December, and shows the surplus deficit to the General Reserve being proposed by this budget as 0.
I don't think that when we started this process back in August or September, anybody thought we would get to 2 0, I thought we thought we would get down towards that number, I thought we were going to significantly cut the deficit, I think the fact that we are actually looking at a 0 deficit,
is an extraordinary position debate and we've done so without taking some of the some decisions which I think would be most painful.
for us to take so things like on-street parking charges were rightly brought forward as proposals as proposals to look at because they would have generated extra income, but with every unit, a yam and some some things you have to look at that and go that's not the right time or not the right proposal to bring forward at this moment I think that was the have you on that.
and we have made sure that we have protected services across the board.
I am protected as many.
as many budget heads as we can.
as I said, that is hugely to the credit of all of the officers and the staff and the Council of this Council, who have helped us to get to that position.
I am in the slightly awkward position that there is that there was one saving identified within this, but the Leader and I really didn't want to have to make and the save, but we weren't firmly of the view.
that we couldn't ask staff, et cetera to take to take more pain or to to ill, too, having got ourselves to this position, to say Well, we're going to reverse this 4 1 4 1 area without the Councillor sharing that pig. So the issue that we have the issue we saw is that there was a reduction of Ward MOD grant budgets proposed within this paper. At the moment, from 90,000 pounds to 75,000 pounds or 15,000 pound cut, reducing a ward round budget from 3,000 pounds this year to two and a half thousand pounds next year, putting about 15,000 pounds back into the budget
I felt like that would be unreasonable to those people who have been involved in a transformation process unless we can be clear where the pain of that was coming from, and we'd like to propose an amendment.
amendment to the budget, I hope all has got the detailed numbers for this because I can't find my e-mail with the details numbers on, but I will give you the broad outline is that we would like to f, we would like to add in 15,000 pounds to the Water Ground project to return that to being 3,000 pounds a head, an additional 15,000 pounds that income will be found by the Leader and to the Deputy Leader no longer receiving that allowance for the next year as as Leader and Deputy Leader and receiving only a Cabinet.
cabinet level
Allowance so it brings, so that means that all members of cabinet will receive the same allowance and, Matt said, I believe 14,870 pounds or their owner has allowed us the 133 pounds of rounding about stage that he will round into the budget.
so the report, so you have the report which you have in front of you.
and I would ask you to agree with the recommendations of that report and the budget, which is there so that we can take back to the Council, but with the full there will be a recommendation for to take the to take the add 15,000 pounds into the into the Council's waterfront budget which is funded entirely by the Leader under the Deputy Leader agreement they will not be taking from the 1st of April those additional allowances.
so with that fourth recommendation, which Ola or Lydia might want to give more actual wording to or less.
give wording to I'd like to move those recommendations with that fourth recommendation, I, I hope the Leader would add the second thing.
thank you very much, Councillor Peter, yes, very happy to second,
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:59:00
although what I would say is that this does not bind future occupants of you know.
the the EA is just it just happens that you know.
you know, we were down to discussing literally tens of thousands of pounds to try and make a 20 minute budget work, and you know that that was a very convenient thing to do so, but there is no pressure on any future.
Leader or Deputy Leader are adopting the same stance, this is, this is a a contribution that we have decided to make, and I will leave it at that.
sorry, I chief executive, is going to chip in well, I was just going
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:59:49
to respond to Councillor practice and request for a recommendation for
Dr Susan Priest - 0:59:52
Wyndham, sorry, I wasn't pre-briefed about this, so I'm hoping.
as I'm hoping, having consulted your 1 5 1 Officer, I hope this adequately captures it.
of course, Members Members will be aware that there are lots of figures still moving around a little bit, so I would suggest that recommendation 4 reads to make the necessary adjustments to the draft budget.
as the matter is finalised before February decision-making, because of course, Members before you, it is the draft budget, so to make the necessary adjustments to what's before you today, before it comes back in February and then on to Council, I think adequately captures the essence and of course we note with great thanks you and your contributions that you've suggested made does that satisfy.
Councillor Pryke, I am very happy that if people I accept that an
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:00:47
adequate adjustments is us committing to what we've just said, that is it, I would also like to make the final point on this is that Jim sacrifice in this is much bigger than I'm sharing some credit, but this is this is 90% his pain and 10% mine, and it is absolutely to his credit that he has put this proposal forward
so yeah, I'm taking them now, but yeah ha ha happy with the wording to be flexible, but we know what exactly what the meaning is, and it will be reflected in the budget when it for the final budget, absolutely
Dr Susan Priest - 1:01:21
thank you, Councillor Brett and we will make sure it is very clear in the final budget papers that come to you in February so as a proposer for the paper.
are you happy with that, can I just check that the second-row is happy with that wording before you go to a debate and vote yeah I'm very
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:01:37
happy to second and very happy with the wording councillors open for debate.
it is a very comprehensive document.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:01:48
Cllr Rich Holgate - 1:01:53
Councillor Hull got just a discreet question, I'd forget all the timings blur in this world, but the 500 million from central government that could be is any potential money we get earmarked in the report. I haven't looked at the line, but I know I'll be transparent well, I am delighted society that, even though I am
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:02:09
supported by excellent officers, I know exactly it's 174,000 pounds and we are delighted that we've received it. There will be some extra money for the internal drainage board, but not a great deal, but 174,000 pounds is hugely hugely appreciated and we were very, very happy to to receive it.
invest in this draft budget.
Cllr Rich Holgate - 1:02:42
N No, so the recommendation for I chose those words because there are
Dr Susan Priest - 1:02:45
some adjustments like the 174 plus, a sum to be determined for the I dB internal drainage board, plus we think I some for the Rural Services Grant, so we're working very closely with Ola on the settlement figure that we expect on the 6th, 5th or 6th of of next week.
and that will be reflected in the February papers, along with the very generous contributions, as we've already discussed, and the movement to the ward budgets as one or two other little tidying up bits that are a minor and I were very grateful for that amount but in the whole scheme of things before the February Papers, and I would just say that the the the big announcement of the 600 million, of course 500 of which went largely for adult social care into the upper tier authorities and it's the other the the 100 million that has been broken down across the country, so we are expecting that, as I say early next week and that'll be worked through the papers and as you get your finalised budget
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:03:47
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:03:49
Councillor Procter, yeah, I think it's also worth also worth noting that we are asked to produce a four year plan in advance answers where funding, and we are looking at a budget which we have to agree on the 28th of February the government doesn't tell us the final numbers which input into that until the 6th of February.
that's no way to run a circus, let alone an Council, however, but that is the position we're in rich are absolutely right, I would, I would expect that the most significant change in there would be that the corporate initiative and projects provision would increase a little.
in in line with those, that's essentially our wiggle-room against events over the course of the network, there are inflationary pressures still in the system, they are low, inflation has declined, it's not gone away and it's not evenly declining either, so there's inflationary pressures, there are other cost pressures in there, and that's what that that gives us is some opportunity to deal with that that wiggle-room for the course of next year, so that's essentially I think we're ever likely to change on Monday to go
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:04:58
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 1:04:59
Councillor Schofield into I'll offer a very brief comment, not nearly as eloquent as my colleague on my left, but to say that, as somebody who is new to local government and the procedures and complications, I've been most impressed by the professionalism that everybody has brought to this at the Council officials, especially the councillors involved, who have led us, the explanations and the constant briefings that we've had been a very helpful. The alchemy behind these figures is something which, but perhaps I will be able to appreciate a little bit better in due course, but the I saw this figure of 0 which I and I saw a figure of 4.3 million or 4 0 4.6 more point 5 0 1 or 0.5 0 1, getting very much some months or many months ago, and I think that was the way that the whole process has been managed is extremely impressive, so
I thank you for all concerned.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:06:00
thank you very much, Councillor, just to add a little to that, I think we're arranging some training.
because obviously you're not the only Councillor in in this position, Councillor Scotland, and I think her head of finances is going to do her teams a session just to explain the budget, what the implications of setting a budget are which I'll certainly find very, very helpful, but I can just to reiterate exactly what everyone else has said the amount of work that you know this is a big lump Peter here, but the amount of work that has gone into it has been staggering.
and I'll just add my specific thanks to all of the officers who have contributed so significantly to this, not only just in terms of bookkeeping, but in terms of imagination, ideas, initiatives which I've been hugely grateful for, so thank you very much so we have a proposer I have seconded.
if no other Councillor wants to make a contribution, shall we go to the vote, all those in favour, please indicate.

9 Investment Strategy 2024/25

thank you very much Councillors, our next item is an investment strategy 24 25 item 9, Councillor Prater, in under 30 seconds the
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:07:29
investment strategy is a document which has to come to us each year and much of this strategy is as in previous years, but there has been a substantial rewrite in one area which is outlined in recommendation 3 is that what this has added to our investment strategy is an approach to environmental, social and governance considerations for our investments. We have been asked by Council previously and we have ourselves wanted previously to add in
an approach to our investment to make sure that we can actually take into account environmental and social issues, environmental and ecological issues in terms of investment. There are very clear hierarchy of those things you have to take into account, to make sure the money is safe. You'll have to make sure there is a return on it, but equally you should be happy that it's ethically invested in a and environmentally invested as well. That's the first time that this investment policy, or at the investment policy at this Council has included that there is always more that one can look at and for tune in terms of going forward. You'll never, you'll never have an end point in terms of these things, although you are bound quite hard by our government rules about what you can say, you've come
about how one invests that money, but it is Arica, we have absolutely listened to Council, and we have absolutely included that within that strategy, I'd like to think owner, in particular, that his work in bringing about
into the strategy as well as Lydia and again I move the report and the recommendations in front of me, thank you very much, Councillor
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:09:06
Procter, I am very happy to second that and just to reiterate your comments on the the governance, changes are very welcomed and very, very happy to second Councillors.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:09:22
Councillor Schofield yeah, given my portfolio, you won't be surprised
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 1:09:23
to hear that I strongly support the move for the environmental policy. I think it's absolutely essential. I'm very pleased to see the direction of travel. I hope it is a direction of travel in the present climate and given our aspirations and policies, clue in different strategies, including the carbon reduction strategy, which is finished now in the consultation stage and is going to be a report reported on in more fully in the summer, maybe in a few months' time
there was very little justification, if any justification for investing in fossil fuel fuels in one form or another, I appreciate the complexity of multiple investments were one and the difficulty of of of recoup of where companies are involved in different activities, so we need out completely has always.
a challenge, but the direction of travel is one that I would like to see continued, and I very much welcome the point that we got to now.
thank you very much, any other Councillors wishing to contribute
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:10:26
Councillor Blackman.
just to echo early work Councillor Peter and Councillor Scotland have
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:10:33
said on the environmental, social and governance governmental governance considerations yeah really heartened to see that they now those considerations are now part of the process and would in terms of the direction of travel, would be great to see that they could move on at some stage from being the subordinate considerations that they are now and not just to be considered where practical.
thank you, Councillor Fuller, thank you Chair, do we do, we have a
Cllr Gary Fuller - 1:11:04
figure for our looking at our current investments that would give us an idea of how far we have to go in terms of that direction of travel in terms of divesting ourselves,
certainly officers, I don't know this, he helped to this, would
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:11:18
Mr Ola Owolabi - 1:11:20
anybody be able to give an indication, sorry, sorry, thank you Chair again, we've got a figure within the treasury management reports wishes on this agenda and there is a specific guideline in terms of TSG and the maximum amount that will be able to invest, thank you.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:11:41
good alkali air any other contributions, so we have a proposer, we have a seconder all those in favour, please indicate.
thank you very much, Councillors.

10 Treasury Management Strategy

item 10 is a treasury management strategy.
Councillor Procter.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:12:01
less than 30 seconds, this is quite dry.
and again is an annual report which sets, I, they put, the indicators of where we are allowed to borrow to looks at our income etc or gives us.
benchmarks against which we can plan our borrowing and our investment over a period of time again, this include that you will see that the recommendations building our environmental and ethical considerations, that you'll also see the late notes, but what are the investment vehicles that one could use of green bonds?
with an investment vehicle. It is true to answer Councillor father's previous point, it's actually quite difficult to say how much investment one would divest of because nobody says their investment. Our investment with anything at the moment is currently unethical. It's just it's not badged as ethical, so it's yeah yeah, you don't know whether it's unethical or not, you just know that it isn't a badge this epochal, so I we're not expecting to suddenly be selling 1,000 chairs and shout because we don't have any there's nothing, but we can look at and say that there is a very difficult investment there to have, but it does mean that we get to look at these things and consider them properly in future. The paper recommendations are ahead in front of you
I am very happy to second Councillor Bryter add.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:13:21
open for debate.
no, no contributions from Councillors, so we have a proposal, we have a seconder all those in favour, please indicate.

11 Capital Strategy 2024/25 and Minimum Revenue Provision Statement 2024/25

thank you very much, councillors are moving on to Item 11 Capital Strategy 24 25 and minimum revenue provision statement 24 25 Councillor Parker.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:13:52
I'm gonna make no friends by talking about this for 15 minutes, so won't the again, the strategies ahead are in front of you and as you'll see when we were starting.
no one can stop, there is in front of you, along with recommendations.
are you moving?
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:14:18
I am very happy to second.
an open it forward, the by.
does anybody have a question or a query around this?
no, well, we have a proposal, we have a seconder all those in favour, please indicate, thank you very much very expedient for this, thank you very much.

12 Update to the General Fund Medium Term Capital Programme (MTCP)

Cllr Tim Prater - 1:14:40
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:14:43
moving on to Item 12, update to the General Fund medium term capital programme Councillor Procter.
OK slightly longer on this one.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:14:52
but again, I'm happy to move the paper recommendations that had to be in front of you 3 or para 3.3 gives you the easy breakdown broadly of what we're looking at in terms of category I'm here this isn't agreed beyond this year, it gives a shape, it gives a flavour of the things that we see as likely priorities for this Council but absolutely wanted to be clear that where it says Leisure Centre development and starts to allocate at 26 million pounds towards that in later years of this programme, that is because this Council has long had the aspiration to replace Hyde swimming pool with inappropriate leisure facility just not.
at Princess Parade, we have a preferred, some of us, have of a preferred site, but that will be subject to discussion of Council and agreement of Councillor Webb and go, but I think we all know that we are going to need a replacement for high pool and it starts to build in an amount of money so that when consultants see that coming down the track and see whether it's affordable and it is affordable with these plans, similarly, where there is an amount of money against Volcker too,
I can't even tell him if that amount of money is about right, but it's broadly 8, a figure which allows us to do some allow the works to Foca to to bring it back, bring it back into use and get gainful use out of that, but is is that everything that would add any expenditure on that within that removal is absolutely our council decision and not being decided this evening? It's giving you a shape of what long-term expenditure would be. The saying doesn't apply with the first column, which is broadly something that you're starting with there. So actually, when you're down to the stump grinders, and he very much has the quotes for that at this moment and would like to start to go and buy stump. Grinders, et cetera
please.
the financial management system is a absolute requirement, but the organisation replaces its existing its current financial management system, which is, I believe, I think, not fit for purpose was that the last conversation I had with Lydia, it doesn't allow us to support the openness and transparency as as well as we could as well as we should that said,
that said clearly, we'd like not to pay 500,000 pounds for it and we will endeavour not to do so, and there will be papers coming to cabinet et cetera about what we will replace it with and what the actual cost of that is. But again, it builds in a scoping cost at what we're doing here has been in the scoping cost of the capital programme over coming years and and testing its affordability to this Council. And it's like. So there are some big ticket items in there. Everything which is no big for those future big ticket items needs to be discussed and agreed through the normal process. But if you don't start to scope whether you could afford them, then the answer to any question like that is one you can't afford it well there. There is some indication that there is some per se some
at flexibility there, some ability there for this Council to do so, so I'd like to seek our approval helpfully updated general fund medium term capital programme as set out, so you're moving November, yet to
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:18:13
that I am very happy to seconder and open for the Bank Councillor Blackmoor.
yeah, I just wanted to echo what Councillor Price said about Leisure Centre.
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 1:18:23
we do find ourselves in the rather unfortunate position of not having progressed a new leisure centre in the District up to now, for all the reasons which have been very well rehearsed. We also have Heath Poll, which has discussed in this Chamber recently and had slightly parallel estates. I hope very much that we can move sooner rather than later to provide a new facility. It's very, very important to the health and wellbeing of the district and something that I personally would want to see happen as soon, and hopefully that are improving financial position will enable us to move on quickly. We do have a good opportunity to build something which is even given all the constraints we have, that is state of the art that is energy efficient that does meet the needs of the district in the best possible way. It's not a great time to be getting involved in leisure centres, but that our situation will improve. I've no doubt and, as I say, we've an opportunity to do something really good for this Detroit. I hope we can do it sooner rather than later,
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:19:24
here we, you indicated, sorry, Councillor Fuller.
I wasn't okay, I was deciding whether or not to indicate to be honest, just to be pedantic and we.
Cllr Gary Fuller - 1:19:34
at some point, can we firm up what we mean by handheld computers until we mean laptops tablets, phones?
but other than that, lie ahead of government.
I'm sure we can, I'm sure we can sort that out and any other
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:19:51
contributions from Councillors so Councillor Peter proposed, I seconded all those in favour, please indicate.
thank you very much.

13 Q3 Housing Revenue Account Budget Monitoring

Cllr Jim Martin - 1:20:10
an item 12, an update to the general fund medium term capital programme
Councillor Procter, now.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 1:20:19
alright okay, cancer through short reprieve.
so this is to.
note and receive.
just bear with me one second, so the HRA budget monitoring report for quarter 3, I think you'll find yeah, there's a an underspend and a
on both the the revenue and on the capital are largely due to capital slippage in both the for both.
accounts.
but yeah, I'm very happy to to.
move the report.
thank you very much, Councillor Shirley, Brown, very happy to second an open and forward the bike.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:21:10
any councillor wishing to contribute.
okay, it's very good where we had a proposer, we have a seconder all those in favour, please indicate.
thank you very much.
so Item 14.

14 Q3 General Fund Revenue Budget Monitoring

Cllr Jim Martin - 1:21:35
quarter 3, a General Fund revenue budget monitoring, Councillor Bryter,
thank you.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:21:44
at the end of quarter 3 for a reason that you've got a much clearer idea of where we're going to arrive at the end of this year, but it is still a prediction and not a science. However, our prediction is much better at the end of quarter 3 as how we will end at the end of quarter 4, and it is that they are at the end of quarter, one or two, so I think we're refining the way that we're finding the gaps within which the that you will read and where that that gap is now is that at the beginning of this year we work through the budget which was set for the Council. Was that the contribute that in order to pay for our budget, we would have to use 1.7 8 6 million pounds from the General Reserve
where we're now two is that we're expecting to be 458,000 pounds better than that so that, despite the fact that that sounds like your 428,000 pounds, you've got that in hand, you're not, it means that we will only be contributing 1 only contributing 1.3 to 8 million pounds from the General Reserve.
that's been done in year through.
very tight financial management, holding vacancies on staff not employing extending parents without people in post, where possible.
genuine cost saving in year and again, it's absolutely tribute to the management and the staff of this Council, but they have made that happen.
I think it's we'd hope that, although that there was a in quarter 2, we were suggesting it was gonna be 513,000 pounds and it's now 428. I don't think, but there's a belief that we're moving in that direction, just that we're refining that gap, so I wouldn't necessarily expect that number to drop further, altered, all to change much more, so that was at that don't worry, it's going in that direction. It's just that, as you refine you get close to the number that you are. You know that you're going to end up with, so where were two is that we are in a set of 438 F 158,000 pounds better position than we thought that we were going to be in if we have fallen, if we had followed the budget which was set for us to the penny, which is absolutely a much better position to be in nearly half a million pounds better position, we will see where we get to at the end of the year and again I will move the report and recommendations on,
thank you very much, Councillor Peter, are very happy to second an
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:24:13
open for debate.
any councillor wishing to make a contribution OK, so we have a proposal, we have a seconder all those in favour, please indicate.

15 Q3 General Fund Capital Programme Budget Monitoring

jolly good, thank you very much, everyone and for the final item this evening item 15 quarter 3 general fund capital programme budget monitoring, at Councillor ProTour.
I move.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:24:45
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:24:50
I second yeah or any Councillor wishing to make a contribution.
ask a question, et cetera.
no jewellery goods, so we have Councillor Pryor to propose the I seconded all those in favour, please indicate.
thank you very much, everyone, that concludes the PCC on the agenda, a very big thanks to Councillor, Shrew and Councillor Bryter for carrying the meeting for us.