Planning and Licensing Committee - Tuesday 18 June 2024, 7:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Planning and Licensing Committee
Tuesday, 18th June 2024 at 7:00pm 

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Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:00:00
Lovely to hear everyone laughing on this lovely summer's evening, good evening and welcome to the meeting of Planning and Licensing. I would remind Members that we are presently in the pre-election period and therefore please do not make political statements, references to candidates or the general election this evening for members officers and others speaking at the meeting. It is important that the microphones are used so that viewers on the webcast and others in the room. I hate you, would anyone with a mobile phone, please switch it to silence as a sign. It might, as I can be distracting so everyone shuffles around
Some members, as Chair of this Committee, I would like to make a statement for the benefit of all councillors at this meeting and for members of the public.

1 Apologies for Absence

The applications before you tonight, and indeed any applications you considering the future, must be considered on planning, merits only, it is essential that Members adhere to this principle and ensure that their decisions tonight are based on the papers before you and any information provided to you during this meeting.
This is not the forum to discuss any ancillary issues relating to the planning applications before you so will move on, do we had, or do we
Mr Alex Baker - 0:01:22
have apologies for absence, thank you, Chair, we have received apologies from Councillor Thomas and Councillor Walker and Councillor Lockwood is here has stopped substitute for Councillor Walker, thank you very much and welcome Councillor Lockwood to the committee
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:01:32
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 0:01:36
picture, do we have any declarations of interest this evening place?
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:01:39
I'm seeing none, so we'll move on.

2 Declarations of Interest

3 Minutes

Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:01:44
excuse me, you have before you the minutes of the 21 of May 2024, my I have a vote to approve as a correct record these minutes.
Thank you, I will sign them after the meeting, so we move on to our first application this evening, which is 24 0 1 68 dash a fight which a unit 1 Riverside Industrial Estate in West Toit Road. Do we have any
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:02:17
updates, please, yes, we do Chair and we have two updates for this application. Firstly, there is an error in Part 11 of the Committee report which makes reference to the refusal of the application for clarity. This application is recommended for approval with conditions
And the second update is that we have received one additional comment in support of the application and it doesn't have any additional comments above those already considered in the committee report.
Thank you
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:02:47
thank you very much, so we'll move on to our speakers, our first speaker tonight is Mr David Bateman, who is to speak against the application on visa.
wonderful if you'd like to come forward.
And so you will have three minutes from when you start.
Microphone Forty - 0:03:09
thank you before I start, could I just say that I assume that councillors have read the planning of officers report and are familiar with the riverside layout in figure 1 and its aerial view in figure 2, so we all go through the papers, believe me, OK, it's my first time,
Okay, I'm speaking on behalf of a few of unit, one's neighbours who experienced an increase in noise pollution from unit ones outside space, the appraisal in section 8.1 C of the Planning officers report considers outside noise under the heading whether the proposal would harm neighbouring residential amenity.
Local planning policy state that decisions should not have an adverse impact on the amenity of current or future occupants of neighbouring properties, my understanding of residential amenity is that people have the right to peaceful enjoyment of their home and garden.
That planning decisions should avoid any increase in noise to reduce potential adverse impacts on the quality of one's health and wellbeing.
paragraph 8 12, states that the use of the outside area does create an increase in noise levels beyond that of the internal space.
8 14 states that the increase in noise from the outside space could have an adverse impact not only on the direct neighbour but other residences in the wider area.

4 24/0168/FH - Unit 1 Riverside Industrial Estate, West Hythe Road, CT21 4NB

A consultee response from Environmental Health claims that, by restricting outside space, opening hours and preventing amplified, music or entertainment, the impact on neighbouring properties would be mitigated, and the application made acceptable.
However, the 10 pm closing time they suggest is identical to the current inside restrictions, the 9 pm
closing time recommended in the planning officer report suggests that both authorities.
Believe that there is little or no.
Detrimental impact to the use of the outside space.
Unit 1 is the right facility, but in the wrong location because of its proximity to residential properties.
The nearest being to the west and south of Unit 1.
there are no dwellings to the east of the riverside site, and dwellings to the north are at least 90 metres and the gardens at least 60 metres from the site, if unit 1 could relocate to the east of the site, its nearest residential neighbours would be at least six times further away.
Parking spaces currently along the east boundary could be restated at the site front as one of the planning conditions from 2015 required. So your three minutes is up. Could you just finish your last sentence, please? I ask the committee either to refuse to grant permission for use of unit ones outside space because of the additional harm to residential amenity or to defer its decision today so that a more suitable site location option for Unit 1 and its outside space can be investigated. Thank you, sir.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:06:47
next step, we have and local residents to speak in support of the application, and that's Mr Luke War only here, sir.
Good evening and you will have three minutes from when you start.
Microphone Forty - 0:07:14
now, ladies and gentlemen, Committee, I am a local resident of HIV, a West Div.
Actually live free hours is down, and I'm actually on some of these pictures to be fair, and I'm also speaking on behalf of 34 over local residents and what I'm saying today.
I'd like to highlight some of the problems or the negative press that's being given towards Unit 1 and the beer garden, one being lights to be noise and traffic as a local resident and living free hours is down from unit 1, I've never experienced this just to explain a little bit about my house as well and my set-up I have bi-fold spot open to the rear which opens the elements from my living room and again.
I've never never found it to be noisy
the occasional chatter on a Saturday or a busy summer summer evening, but that's about it, I don't deem it necessary to saw over half any negative force on it, just a positive side of Unit 1, especially as a resident, I've been there for three and a half years and it's made me meet people who are local to the area even with dog meat paddleboarding.
Where we can have a beverage or drink afterwards doesn't have to be alcoholic, it can be coffee, there's there's plenty of variety of drinks to hand.
as a local as well, I've always found that the the timings are social flowers as well, which I find important, especially as it is a quiet area and I did move to this area for that reason, but it doesn't seem to spoil it.
which the hours are Thursday, Friday Saturday, that's 2,100 hours, which I think is quite reasonable, and then before that Saturday or Sunday to Wednesday is 1900 hours which again I think is quite reasonable for the area that we live in, I've never seen it or deemed it being a problem at all.
And I said as Unit 1, I feel and my partner is a safe haven, it's just it's a nice meeting place, we go on dog walks, we've got a number of dogs.
if we fancy a drink, it's just nice to go to and it's a friendly environment, I don't deem or I haven't experienced any anti-social behaviour again, I do live in that picture, freehouse is down and I've never never experienced that.
Or witnessed it.
thus, that's about what I have to say really as a local resident, that's fine, thank you very much.
Thank you proxy time, could you just turn the microphone was please?
Thank you.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:10:00
And we have a third speaker this evening, which is Ken's appointment, who will speak on behalf of the applicant if you'd like to come forward, you'll have three minutes from when you start.
Microphone Forty - 0:10:19
I was speaking to you today as a political small business unit, one in Hyde our vision for Unit 1 was to create a family and dog friendly community space, serving locally sourced food and drinks, as well as offering employment to local people.
The location of the unit alongside the canal path means we attract customers arriving by foot bike paddleboard and even horse these are difficult times for small businesses and we have been grateful for the ongoing support over the last few years from local residents before Unit 1 is such a vital part of their community and they do not want to lose it, the outside space has been used for casual customer seating since 2018 and began to be used more formally after the pandemic when restrictions were in place for customers to sit outside.
at this time we use movable planters in temporary fencing to enable social distancing.
the fencing has since developed to separate the seating area from the road into the industrial estate, ensuring customer safety.
The use of the outside seating is the capacity we need to meet our customer demand, without this we would lose trade and ultimately the required income to maintain our current staff levels and commitment to supporting local suppliers, many of these suppliers of independent businesses who are reliant on our trade for their income other businesses within the estate also benefit from the footfall created by us.
Unit 1 has become a real community hub for the residents of Westhide. We hosted charity events as well as sponsoring local sports teams. The wooden barrels in our seating area are currently growing hops in partnership with the community group. High hopes to create the most locally grown bay. We could ever sell. These are growing alongside wildflowers and bark hotels, encouraging nature and the otherwise concrete space. Our outside area allows those with mobility issues to visit without concern, and our disabled toilet is a unique facility on the canal path. We are available to anyone as a place of safety along the canal who need assistance
Many walking running and cycling groups use the unit. As a pitstop, they appreciate the availability of outside seating, especially given the muddy and sweaty nature of their activities. We have been overwhelmed by the support we have received in relation to this application to hear how the unit has had. Such a positive impact on people's health and wellbeing has been humbling. People appreciate the option to sit in the fresh air tourists particularly enjoy coming from nearby campsites to sample our local ales and use the cycle path to hide without our outside seating. It is inevitable that customers who wish to sit outside we will continue to do so on public land and away from our bins and amenities. There has never been any reason for us to believe that the use of our outside space for seating has had a negative impact on the local area. We monitor noise closely and would never allow any anti-social behavior. We pride ourselves on a relaxed, family friendly atmosphere, and this is reflected in our early closing times without the trade the outside seating brings us, we would be faced with some very difficult decisions about the future of unit 1. Thank you for your time.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:13:09
thank you very much, Councillors overdue, would anyone like to Monk, I'll ask a question or have any clarification on anything?
Councillor Blackman.
Thank you Chair.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:13:24
So unit 1 is an independent business, supporting lots of other independent businesses would appear to be a kind of them set up, we would be looking to encourage in the district, and I can see from the report that there's an awful lot of support.
However, I have heard what the first speaker said and.
And about the noise issues.
And regional report, it seems, like the last Environmental Health complaint, was back in April 2022 and that no further action was taken on from that.
And I can see that reasonable that the opening hours are restricted and the prevention of amplified music and so on, but on the issue of complaints, is it correct that there hasn't actually been any, were upheld, complaint and indeed no complaints since April 22?
I believe that history from the Environmental Health
OK, sorry, yes, that's what we have to had reported from Environmental Health, okay right, and there's been none since thank you.
Councillor Jones,
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:14:41
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:14:42
I'm very happy with the recommendation from the officers, I think it's a really good business is very good for his, I really love the fact that it's encouraging other local business and, as far as I can tell I say, with no formal noise complaints, it doesn't seem to be a problem particularly with the opening hours and with the obviously the restrictions on our music outside, so I would like to go with the recommendation from the officer, is our proposal, Councillor Mrs and proposal, to have a seconder?
I think Councillor Kane got there first saw him.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:15:17
Councillor Cooper can ask a question, please.
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:15:23
these issues about parking are supposed to be issues with parking is dependent on the issues regarding our important team actually moving cars on, because every time I've gone class in this place it's always been clear and any car park just round the corner obviously appears to be before I'm not aware of any parking issues in the issues regarding the parking police.
Mr David Campbell - 0:15:48
are we aware of any we wouldn't necessarily have and where we went, we're not aware of any any parking issues?
Councillor Goddard.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:15:56
Cllr Clive Goddard - 0:15:57
thank you, Chairman, yes, an odd echo my colleagues in my left I was going to court happy with the policy, is obviously the resident, the first resident, no toyed up in the the excellent conditions, with no live or amplified music, and in no until,
No one shall knowing, basically every day, and like the other residents said, yes, even Salter at certain times of the week so yeah, we we need to back businesses, that's what it's all about, I have had a rough ride and you know back, I'm not sort of send him on nearby so quite happy with this and I wish him all the best. Thank you,
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:16:38
Councillor good at Councillor Cleasby currently has I'd like to
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:16:39
I, along with what's already been said and I thought it far in the report, actually sets out exactly why I feel and I'm able to support it, so thank you and again thank you. So it's a, I suppose we ought to declare it if we've had a drink in there I have actually had a drink in there, so maybe I should declare that, but at it you know it is it is, it is a nice area to go to when you're bypassing, or when you're on the canal you know along the canal or somewhere or when you're jogging yr
freedom of at pass'.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:17:20
Thank you, thank you, I'd also like to add I've never been to this venue.
But it looks like a very family friendly, which we definitely need, I'm hoping the fact that the licensing areas are very strict and are part of the conditions, and also that we're getting lighting conditions in place, and also the fact that there's no music outside.
Will allay any fears that the neighbours have, sorry did you wish to speak,
OK, thank you before we go to the vote, would anyone else like to say anything?
no, so we have one proposal in front of us which was proposed by Councillor Jones, seconded by Councillor Kane, and that's to go with the officers, recommendations for permission to be granted all those in favour, please raise your hands.
And I can see that unanimous, thank you that has passed.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:18:17
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:18:34
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:18:41
so we move on to the next application, which is 22 dash 2 1 0 0 dash F H, which is the coast Dr car park coach driving great stone, do we have any updates, please?

5 22/2100/FH - Coast Drive Car Park, Coast Drive, Greatstone, TN28 8NR

Thank you good evening, Chair members of the Committee, and I have one update for you tonight, an e-mail has been received in support of this application from Councillor Paul Thomas, who is unable to attend this evening's meeting for which he sends his apologies, his comments are as follows.
as Ward Member, I fully support this planning application, it will provide a very much better car parking facility than we currently have the beach huts will encourage visitors to the area and allow New Romney, residents and those from across the district to have their own facilities at the seaside I anticipate this would be on par with those facilities currently enjoyed by residents in Folkestone,
the addition of a concession cafe visitor room and excellent toilet and shower facilities will further enhance tourism in New Romney, Littlestone and Great Stone the planning application has been amended to accommodate the comments from KCC ecology and to ensure the new facility does not compromise the operation of the sea cadet unit in the car park I have spoken with the sea cadets Chairman and they fully support the new design as it provides secure parking for the unit and access to the boat compound the new facility will also provide accommodation for growing wood for the growing water sports community, that's said, thank you.
Thank you very much and we have two speakers on this this evening, the
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:20:17
first speaker is Councillor Peter Keogh, to speak on behalf of New Romney Town Council, and if you'd like to come forward so.
And you will have three minutes from when you start.
Microphone Forty - 0:20:34
thank you, I'll be very brief, what was just said, but Councillor Thomas really reflects what's going on, as you are aware, from the timeline, a considerable amount of water has passed under the bridge since this application was first mooted some of it after our last published comments with the 3rd of January this year, whilst the Committee is not against the basic idea as was shown by the initial comments of the 4th of January 2023 which was in favour with caveats most of these which have subsequently been met which was referred to the Sea Cadets and that sort of thing,
however, there are some concerns regarding perceived lack of clarity in the response to the following agencies, the Environment Agency's climate conditions, natural England regarding the viability of Sam's QC's ecological comments and Kent police, his comments particularly number 10 regarding the ongoing security plans in light of vandalism problems, the Committee suggested for a single row of huts still stands. It was also the matter of arm 11, which you refer to in your report. Therefore, I come back to my opening remarks that the committee considers the principle is fine, but details remain to be sorted.
Thank you,
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:21:47
Thank you, sir, and we have ward councillor Mr David window to speak on the application if you could come forward, and you have three minutes from when you start.
Thank you, good evening Councillors. I'm very pleased to support this
Microphone Forty - 0:21:58
application, which is a hybrid revision of the scheme, is already come through the planning process. Some of you may recall that this site was designated for building 20 houses that the District Council wanted to develop, along with several other district councillors, and local people spoke out against this development, as it would have put a further nail in the coffin of our District's tourism. At the time I was told it costs the Council a million pounds from a loss of land to sell to a developer are to be stopped. This planning from progressing beyond the outline stage as part of the team that looked at the alternative proposals and put forward the idea of building the beach huts. This alternative would not only deliver much more than 1 million pounds over time, but also generate a yearly income. More importantly, establish the site as a tourism destination
The current toilets on the greens are not easily accessible for anyone with disabilities. This proposal would deliver a fit for purpose scheme and inclusive, modern environmental toilet facility, cath classroom and kiosk, and access to the beach and huts for people with disabilities needs with a viral boardwalk. While this a smaller development than the original plan, I understand that officers work with the sea cadets and water sports centre to ensure they all have the accessibility they need not only to operate but also to provide a better facility with fit for purpose. Car park this car park would have designated parking, thereby improving the current situation which allows people to park wherever they want. Over the past five years, we've seen how properly this destination is with visitors in the district. This development will only enhance the offering in a green and sustainable way when I was portfolio holder under this, under which this project fell, we stipulated that local residents should be given first choice. Rentals beach huts. Although this is outside of planning hope, this stipulation is still in place. Thank you
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:23:56
Thank you, sir Councillors, would anyone like to ask a question, Councillor Goddard?
Cllr Clive Goddard - 0:24:02
Chairman, as all staff more waiting for you on this committee wants to GWI.
I must say that this is one of the best reports I've seen so well done and credit to Annex 4 that this has been bubbling around for a couple of years lot Councillor Womble said which started a couple of years ago and it comes now we have a much better scheme just what the Marsh wants for for that neck of the woods idea where we are or not Councillor Wimbledon on the said.
And you know it is perfect and not side with the reports I won, it's turned every stone on that beach and happy to move the officer's recommendation.
Thank you.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:24:47
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:24:48
I thought you were Councillor Lyons, we would like to speak as though he's taking my thunder in terms of the HRA intact in terms of the report I was going to say I don't think I've read such a comprehensive report for actually quite a long time the reports are always very good away, but this one is particularly comprehensive and I just,
wanted to just say about the watering of the of the area. I think that that's a really important point and I I I just be interested to know that how that can be maintained. I know the 1 0 6 will do it for a certain period of time is at his at forever. You know, how would that be finance? That's that's the only question I really wanted to ask. I think it's an excellent idea, very happy with the beach hut we know in Folkestone, everybody wanted them. I think this is something like 700 people on a waiting list for four beach huts, so I think you know it is a good scheme and it will help the Marsh in terms of their tourism, and it can only be good for the whole district
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:25:52
thank you who can answer them.
sorry, you're picking up the point about the wardening these are the fine details that would be secured through the Section 1 0 6 legal agreement, in consultation and in agreement with natural England and KCC ecology they're both.
Supportive of the idea of the warding, particularly natural England, and the applicant has already approached and been having several detailed discussions with the Romney, Marsh Partnership, who do all of the wardening down at Dungeness and they have agreed in principle, to continue their responsibilities, are along this part of the beach at the moment we're still in the discussions as to how far that warning might go.
because, as you can imagine, Dungeness is a lot bigger than this, so it'll probably be to a lesser degree and working out what the responsibilities of those wardens will be and then the cost that comes with that, so these are the fine details that we are securing through the section 1 0 6
And you know that's that would be for the lifetime of the development, but there would probably be some sort of review mechanism within that so that they can establish, we can establish how the wardening is successful, it is.
You know, because it could help to reduce the pressure that's there at the moment, as well as the increased pressure, and also you know from that we might be able to reduce the amount or, or you know, stipulate what happens in the future through that, but it would all be secured forever what's needed so?
Okay.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:27:33
Councillor Jones, when Councillor might vote no, thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:27:39
no, it looks like a great scheme are really good reports, her well done really good for tourism, really good for the Marsh
It's good that we're going to increase the parking down there, and I mean it's always been a challenging car park that one, I would just say, that two EV charging spaces is not really enough for over 100 cars is there had been any thought to increasing the amount of EV charging because obviously done on the marshal away from perhaps a lot of other EV charging.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:28:10
And the amounts of EV charging as in accordance with Kent's.
Requirements KCC's requirements for that you know, it's a council car park, they have got a strategy, the council does have a strategy for upgrades within the car parks and increasing the number of EV charging spaces, so it is something that could and probably would happen in the future.
We can certainly feed that back to them, and that option is open for them to to put more in in the future yeah, I think just from
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:28:47
experience sometimes people can park their cars, plug them in disappear off to the beach for the day and leaves other people with not much opportunity to charge their car and we'll see if you've come a long distance to visit.
That could be a problem if you plan to charge LaCava, so I would thought it'd be sensible to have a few more than two, if that's good suggestion.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:29:09
Thank you, Chair, and thank you for the comments have been. Crucially from a planning point of view, we can only go so far as the policy requires the amounts. As Alex has pointed out, the applicant, which happens to be the Council's case, if they chose to go beyond, we would obviously support that and if there is greater demand and obviously it's financially viable because we would support that, we wouldn't have the ability to force that issue at this point in time and I think of this this evening. We need to make a decision on based on what's in front of us, and if the Council wished to increase the amount of EU parking in the future to vary the application they could do so, and we would support that as well, but we've had to determine is this application acceptable as it's currently proposed, and it does meet the need. That's not to say I'd go back
I don't disagree, I don't disagree with your points, I agree with it, but unfortunately from a planning point of view, we could not insist on more at this moment in time.
Councillor Mike Bogle yeah, echo what's being said about it's a very
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:30:07
exciting scheme and I can completely see the benefits of it just going back to what the first speaker said and we've touched on some of us with the wardening about in particular natural England's concerns and the line in here which says that they don't have enough information and their conclusion is that we should not grant planning permission at this stage, so my question is really is
Can we grant planning permission certain that natural England will be happy with the measures that are being put in place, because once we've granted that planning permission, we've granted that planning permission, and then there's there's effectively no way back, so it's just reassurance on, can we grant planning permission go against essentially what natural England appear to be saying?
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:30:49
Thank you Chair, and thank you, Councillor Blake, where I think I'd refer to paragraph 10 of the report, which says that Members should agree to adopt the appropriate assessment and approve planning permission subject to conditions and a Section 1 0 6 being entered into so tonight this Committee will resolve to make a decision. The decision is ever made until the paperwork leaves the building and the paperwork won't leave the building. Therefore, decision won't be made until a Section 1 0 6 has been signed and agreed, and that would, of course, being done in conjunction with natural England and cater to the ecology. So no decisions will be issued immediately until those details, but I'd also to reassure members
We grant lots of planning permissions every day where there are unknown details and that development is always you can't build it until those details are satisfied, which other means they wouldn't have planning permission until those details are satisfied, that sort of addresses natural England's points and KCC and we've only reporting it to members tonight.
In that sort of confidence that we will get to a solution that everyone can live with, I hope that sort of provides the reassurance that we're sort of concerned about, so we're basically saying there
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:31:57
isn't a scenario in which natural England wouldn't be happy with this and we would go ahead, so basically we only go ahead if natural England are happy.
that's corrective if we can't get to a point where section 1 or 6 can be signed.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:32:10
Then the decision might be issued.
thank you, Councillor Kane.
Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:32:20
strangely enough, I'd like to echo what Councillor Womble said, my biggest concern about this is that local people get a fair crack of the whip and I know that's not planning consideration, but I think we need to remember that the majority of people who live in New Romney work in New Romney, it's a local area, they work, they have worked for local wages might concern me, they says these are going to cost and they're going to be very similar to what they are in Folkestone.
Where very few of the units are now.
Inhabited by Folkestone people.
so I'm concerned that we built in this and we're putting money into a project that doesn't actually benefit our our residents, and you know, Councillor Womble, hit it on the head, there has got to be.
some reserve for low because, but I do think my concern is, we can put a lot of money into a project that isn't going to help the local economy or the local people who live there.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:33:27
Thank you, is there anything we can see about the rulings on who can
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:33:30
probably for a beach hot yes, certainly, and so it is anticipated that the leases would be similar, if not the same, to the other leases that we have around the district, I'm not I'm not sure how much they would they would cost and that's obviously a commercial decision for the Council not a planning consideration. However, I have been told that there would be a maximum 15% allocation outside of the district, everything else would be available for local residents,
thank you, that's actually good news.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:34:03
Councillor Polly Blackmoor.
thank you Chair, I just have a question about the lighting scheme
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:34:13
because.
I see condition 17 quite rightly confirms that the lights will be switched off when the development is an operational, which is obviously a good thing, but I can see in the report that one meantime Council has concerns, I think, it probably based on security and is also sympathetic lighting.
So I'm just wondering how we, how we know square, that circle really.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:34:42
I think so the lighting condition is at the request of KCC ecology, because this is such a sensitive location, you know, we've got breeding birds and things like that, the design has actually evolved in terms of looking at security and comments previously made.
On that and they've also looked at.
the securing design, designing out crime, those those kinds of things.
so you know
It could be that they come back with something with some some low level lighting, but will have to consider that and balance that against the ecological impact.
Councillor Fuller
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:35:24
thank you Chair.
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:35:25
Thank you, sir, the development looks great, this is more in line of a suggestion based on my experience in Sandwell of having a a concession there.
for many years, because the Council's Council was expecting very high rent for that concession, it sat empty and we don't want to end up with that situation in Romney Marsh, so I'd actually suggest that, as the council ended up doing in Sangay though she spoke to the parent local parish council about having them running the concession which might also allow some of the concerns that they have as well.
Admittedly, not a planning matter, so, but a suggestion nevertheless, thanking as we have several Cabinet Members here, I'm sure that will
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:36:12
be duly noted, Councillor Fuller, I know you are.
I just like to say I don't come back there, continued Councillor Lockwood in a second, I think he looks an absolutely outstanding designed to help tourism in a place that needs tourism, my big issue has always been that it's so close to the Triple S away which is part of the reason that the buildings previously,
we refused, however, with the extra.
Protections shall we say, that are being put into place that have been noted in this report, and I will say as well, the absolutely excellent report, thank you very, very much, I'm actually.
very minded to agree to this as well, Councillor Lockwood.
Thank you, Chair, just to reiterate what nearly everyone said that
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 0:37:09
it's a great scheme very well-written report, thank you for that everybody, I noted one of the objections asked if the the development could be delayed until it was safe to engage in water sports on that beach, so I just wanted to nothing to do with planning would just go on the record that it's disappointing that it's not safe to to engage in water sports on that beach.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:37:36
Noted, thank you very much, would anyone else like to comment No, we have one proposal that has been proposed by Councillor Gordon seconded by Councillor Hollands be, and that is the application in front of you with the S 1 0 6 legal agreements to be put into place as recommended by our planning officers all those in favour please raise your hands.
Those against.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:38:06
And that makes no abstentions, so we have one against.
Mr Alex Baker - 0:38:15
Thank you, Chair, we have 10 in favour, 1 against and no abstentions, thank you that application has passed, thank you.

6 22/1347/FH - Land at the Former Silver Spring Site, Park Farm Road, Folkestone

Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:38:21
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:38:31
So we move on to the next one, the safe name which is 22 dash 1 3 4 7 dash f h, which is the land at the former Silver Spring site in Park Farm Road in Folkestone. Do we have any updates, please, thank you
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:38:48
Chair. Could it be members? Yes, I do have an update and members will have noted the supplementary sheet and the amended recommendation and since that was drafted to the additional information requested by National Highways has been submitted and further comments have been received, National Highways raised no objection subject to an additional condition in respect of
construction, traffic management and subject to that condition, may conclude there would be no significant harmful impact on the end 20 May 20 in terms of the bus service contribution, correspondence with KCC Highways and stage coach remains ongoing.
To date
There's no real update in terms of justification for or changes to, the level of contribution that's been requested, and so in terms of the recommendation, that's, as per the supplementary sheet, except for the addition of the condition requested by National Highways, thank you Members.
Thank you, Mr Bailey.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:39:53
we have one speaker on this and that's a Mr Allister Ingram, who is the agent, speak on the application if you'd like to come from Watsa.
and your three minutes starts when you do.
Microphone Forty - 0:40:07
Thank you, Chair, and members of the Committee for the opportunity to speak tonight, my name is Alastair Ingram and on the agent for the application.
the former Silver Spring site is a key brownfield site in Folkestone, located within an established retail employment area, but has remained vacant for over a decade June, which has not resulted in any economic benefits for the town or district, this application is the result of carefully considered options for the site in order to ensure that its future development is ultimately deliverable.
This has resulted in the mixed use retail employment led scheme before you tonight, in which officers had found to be acceptable in land use planning terms.
The application is in hybrid form, with the detailed elements subject to pre-lets and to come forward first.
which in turn will drive the delivery of the remainder of the site.
Most importantly, the scheme will result in a range of economic, social and environmental benefits, and I'll just like to highlight a few key points.
The foodstore will provide improved choice and accessibility to convenience goods for local residents, the employment area will provide the opportunity for a range of new businesses to locate in purpose-built modern facilities suit their needs, the scheme will result in a range of social value and economic benefits, in particular significant new job creation of circa 250 new jobs overall,
plus additional jobs during the construction phase,
these talks would be a range of levels, for example administration, through to management and in a range of full and part-time positions.
It will result in a significant level of biodiversity net gain with a detailed area alone, achieving a net gain of 30% in habitat area and over 3000% in hedgerow or linear habitat.
These are based on the entire sites net gain requirements and therefore the future outline phases will only increase this net gain further it has been demonstrated in our submission and supported by the Council's own independent retail adviser.
The scheme passes the sequential and retail impact tests.
The scheme has also been found entirely except in relation to matters such as design, noise, flooding, highway impacts and reduction in carbon emissions it will also result in improvements to the local road network outside of the site through the wording of Part Farm Road as well as improving pedestrian and cycle routes.
Members, the applicant has worked hard to ensure that this application can be supported by officers, this hard work has resulted in a positive recommendation before you tonight.
We therefore respectfully request that you approve this application in library, offers officer recommendation and support the future development of this key site, thank you for your time.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:42:35
Thank you, sir, and over to Councillors, would anyone like to make a comment or ask a question?
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:42:43
Councillor Fuller, thank you, Chair, I mean, broadly, I am in support of this application, but there was one thing that sort of stuck out to me, possibly because my son goes to school down the road from it, and that is,
That, obviously, that particular road is is a real thoroughfare for students leaving the academy or leaving the bacon, and I can see that there's a sort of crossing marked thereby maybe not reading deeply enough, but I couldn't see for certain if that was gonna be. If that particular cost of crossing was gonna be a zebra crossing, there's gonna be a lighted crossing or something like that because I'd I mean it's already especially at corner via the amount of cars that go really fast around their colonies is already terrible
so I'd I'd like it if possible, for if officers could just.
Assure me that the the the there aren't gonna be any road safety concerns for children that I'm gonna be walking down the, or mainly across, the the the sort of the main entrance to that area, as it were, because,
Having walked down there myself, it's it can be a bit hair-raising at times.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:43:53
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:43:54
Well when you've got here, Mr Bain, thank you, Wokin Kent, County Council highways and transportation raised no objections, so that's in respect of the safety and convenience of all users of the highway so people in vehicles and pedestrians so and on that basis were satisfied that there's gonna be no harm to pedestrian safety, I understand that the crossing slightly further down the road from the site I mean in terms of the off-site highway improvements, I don't think a pedestrian crossing is currently part of the scheme.
But, like I said, KCC Highways are satisfied that there's gonna be no
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:44:35
no impact on pedestrian safety, can I just come back on that just I mean not an expert on Kenner Highways but
Do would they have considered the fact that the the school up the road is a special educational needs school and therefore some of the kids at it will be?
Less aware of road safety issues and therefore are effectively a higher standard of road safety is needed.
I think Kent Highways Services are aware of everything that's in the
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:45:03
area we have to take them at face value, any new highway works would be subject to a safety audit in detail and of course can help highway services would have to sign that off. They'd have to be happy in safety for all users. I'm what my child also goes to the school nearby. I do know at crossing points that further to the east or south of this access point he raised, there is a
pedestrian crossing point linking both the access to the school and also the neighbouring footpath, but also there is a lollipop man who mans that for the entire school cook period.
as the schools that you mentioned is further south than this development sites, that person would be involved.
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:45:49
when you are talking about the academy rather than the bacon.
I'm talking about the bacon, which is.
Just down the road. Special educational needs school to the north of the and actually on that road, as it were, and that's and I can say for certain that the the the school do and they did take the kids on effectively walking trips so that they can experience shopping into BoKlok so they will be crossing. I presume that main entrance into that, so that's really my only concern other than that I think it's great. I actually think it might pull some of the traffic away from the McDonald's and things like that, because that's where the my other main pinch point in Park Farm is, and if you've got to drive from here, who knows there might be a bit that it might spread it out a bit, but I'm dear I'm still concerned about that and I'd really like that sort of
I mean, I said that there is no reason to object, but it's it is a reason to make it very clear to Ken Highways that you know to look again, shall we say.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:46:49
But for the record, I am aware of the schools, my daughter goes to the one that abuts the Beacon and whether there's a main access into that school off part Farm Road, which is the third access into the site, the crossing point will have to be subject to Kent's full safety audits for all road users, both the young and the elderly and the able bodied as well. So I think we'll have to they take responsibility for that we can raise that with them, but I think that is what it has to be.
To an adoptable standard for all crossing points.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:47:22
thank you, can we actually make a note on that, because I do share your concerns on that if we could, as a Planning Department contact Highways.
Whichever way this goes this evening.
And just raise their awareness of the fact that the we do have special educational needs, children actually walking along and going on walking trips along this road, and there will need to be extreme safety regarding crossings, thank you, Councillor Kane was first so it
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:47:51
Council policy had you just reminded me of something as well as actually a social care hub as well as a bank and it's not just the school so that's probably worth mentioning.
That's the case, then Councillor Bateman.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:48:01
Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:48:05
Air quality at peak times in that ride is absolutely dire, it's diabolical, and yes, I do travel that road every day and this morning to travel just over a mile took me 35 minutes, there are people that the air quality there are children walking to school and we have got vehicles humpy now lead diesel.
That road, and I know what you're gonna say, it's only peak times the event, because there are times during the day where we get back to where we're pouring lots of things into a small area and it banks all the way back to Radnor Park.
and also when we get operation Brock Corporation stack.
the House is behind the old 8 20, absolutely cannot use their gardens because of the smell of fear, and I mean I just feel that we were pouring loads of stuff into that area and I was thinking about the four schools that sit there, I know a Councillor that had to direct traffic round there to get a school bus out, so I'm a little bit worried that.
Road safety, the air quality has a full survey being done by KCC in this area, where they actually put their marshals out to check the air quality and the traffic
Although not a word whether or not KCC Highways who have been out in the in the many who said they wouldn't be responsible for air quality anyway, and air quality assessment was submitted with the application has been appraised by our Environmental Health Officer who raises no objection in terms of the transport information and there's been an initial Transport Assessment and addendum to that which KCC have raised no objection to and then further information submitted at the request of National Highways who again raise raised no objection so while while I appreciate your experience of the local area, unfortunately in terms of the
The information that's been submitted and the response from the
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:50:09
statutory consultees, as we often discuss at these meetings or members, often discuss at these meetings, and they raise no objection today, empirical evidence that's been submitted.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:50:27
So I just want to come back on Councillor Zimmer Community, Councillor Michael.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:50:34
thank you Chair, and refresh my memory of the plans at the main entrance to the site there is a zebra crossing through a central island which the staggered island which allows for greater crossing time and waiting areas of safety, so I think that's already been taken into account and then KC Highways will then work out whether they need any sort of safety railings or any other details on that but there is a zebra crossing in place away from the Brighton the carriageway edge along Park Farm Road just to reassure you that's being considered by the applicant.
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:51:07
Councillor might vote more yeah, following on from what previous two Councillors have said, I was interested in 3.2 0 the transport assessment that.
I see any projects limited I presume they are linked to the applicant, although they conduct this assessment on behalf of the applicant, conclude that the result of the development would be the traffic impact would be minimal.
And I'm a bit sceptical about that because I don't think it would be a very successful supermarket or drive through restaurant that attracted only minimal traffic and, as Councillor Fuller mentioned the impact of traffic on at the other end apart from where McDonald's and Sainsbury's are, I think people would say the traffic is pretty bad there and we could reasonably assume that another supermarket and two more drive-through restaurants, I'm not sure by the way, a drive-through restaurant and sustainable transport I think they may be a kind of contradiction in terms, but I welcome the fact that there is some nod towards sustainable transport and improve bus services.
But yeah, I cannot see how the impact of a supermarket to drive the response is minimal in terms of impact on transport.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:52:17
thank you Chair, thank you, Councillor Blake more we have a Transport Assessment which has looked at baseline traffic flows and has modelled the development traffic flows against what they called TRICS data, which is the typical transport in and out of these kinds of uses across the country.
it has modelled that for the peak period both in the AM and PM and at the weekend, and it does show that there is an increase in traffic movements, it's not saying there's no increase in traffic movements, what it is saying, however, that it is within the capacity of the road network and both Highways from Kent highway safety and,
National Highways Highways, England, they have also concluded there'd be no impacts where there will be additional traffic, the tripod Transport Assessment is quite clear about that, but what needs to bear in mind that when is it happening, how many extra traffic movements is it and what would the queuing and congestion?
and delay, and it has to be significant, is not a reason for highway safety harm, and the government are quite clear with us at the moment, as there has to be a significant adverse impact on highway safety to warrant refusal now I understand Members' concerns from their own experiences of that junction.
I experienced it occasionally, I've never known it to back up all the way down to Radnor Park Road, but that's my own anecdotal evidence tonight I have to urge you to base your decision on the evidence in front of me, because if we were to go to if you were to recommend refusal, we would have to have counter evidence to justify a refusal.
Councillor Cooper.
Thank you, Mr Lloyd.
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:53:52
can I just ask what is a demonstrable harm, because I'm a little bit concerned here we've heard about residents' rooms being affected by pollution, we've also been heard that say local schoolchildren, Jews aware human trafficking, etc may also be affected, so what would the demonstrable harm with and would that be a justifiable reason for refusal please?
Thank you Chair, I think if we deal with air quality, first, the
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:54:17
applicant has undertaken an air quality assessment have looked at all the receptors locally.
They have come.
Doctored research with the Council and Environmental Health Team to identify and can agree which receptors needs to be considered, they have looked at the additional traffic, this development is likely to generate in those peak periods and throughout the day and looked at what the impact on those receptors would be and determined that it would not be sufficient to warrant harmful impacts.
In the highway safety issue, what would be demonstrable harm, we would need our own evidence, as in empirical or both how the Highways Agency now has a transport team at KCC or Highways England to be saying that there would be a harm in highway safety terms to our network we don't have that evidence to hand what we are saying is, there will be some extra traffic on the road which we acknowledge.
There might be some additional delay, but delay does not in itself mean harm, it's inconvenience might be frustrating, but it is not harmful unless that starts to snarl up every other junction locally, which of course, at the moment Highways England and others are saying he wouldn't do.
I urge caution I have no more than the report has for you, you'll have to come to your own conclusions or wait, you give the applicant's evidence, my advice, as with the applicant's evidence, alongside that of KC Highways and Transport and Highways, England ways very much in favour against there being any highway safety harm.
Councillor Lockwood,
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:55:52
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 0:55:56
thank you Chair, I may be the aforementioned Councillor that was directing traffic on Kingsmead.
In attorneys schools high-viz jacket, we did struggle on occasions to get the buses full of schoolchildren out of Kingsmead.
I could take this opportunity to thank the manager of the fast food outlet on the same site, who often came out and helped I can see.
The supermarket use could could what we want impact on that school, from my experience of using.
Other supermarkets, that's not peak time for supermarkets and if the drive through take traffic away from the current one, then it spreads it slightly, and Mo, whoever took over from me at Turner, schools, hopefully, would have to go out less and often then I had to.
so I take on board your points about the professional opinion and we should respect that, and it looks to me like it, it could possibly ease the situation.
Albeit with additional overall traffic.
Thank you, Councillor Blake, more than Councillor Gounod, it was just
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:57:16
a small point but I don't think congestion or snarl-ups just causes inconvenience, it also helps the deterioration of air quality.
Cllr Clive Goddard - 0:57:29
has got odd, thank you, Chairman, I think, firstly I or Councillor Fleetwood Hooley on the hairdo Bale, I would do the traffic spreading around the area because of the joy foods, but this is another site that the planning history is older than me, it's had so much stuff on it.
You know, it's a derelict site and I think Mr Ingram and the applicant, if they've got the saw it right now. I think you know the it's all there, the mosque, the plane looking at there is is is good, the landscape, planes even better. You know more love for trees and greens you know, so you know that you know, I just think that the the the schemes lot now, the experts have told Jersey has now issued with air quality with traffic, and again Councillor, which says about spreading where the joy flags are sharing her payout, and you know it, it could ease the traffic there, so I think you know it's a long awaited employment always promoting and want employment. I think it revitalise the area, it needs it
And you know jobs in what, from the staff and the construction right through to the supermarket, the takeaways clean everything, so I think they're being there'd be several jobs as well in the future, so we're happy to move the office recommendation check.
We have a pizza.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:58:51
Mr Bailey would just like to say anything further from the seconder,
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:58:58
thank you, thank you am Chairman and out sort yet I'm just to point out to Members when considering the highways impact of this scheme, that the site is of course allocated in the Local Plan for up to 10,000 square metres of office space which in itself would have,
an impact on the highway network so that the site is considered acceptable in principle for large scale developments and and as previously set out the statutory consultees, raised no objection on the basis of highway impact. Thank you,
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:59:35
thank you, we have a propose present, as Mr Goddard, who would like to
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:59:40
second, I'd like to second lovely Councillor for lead, you wish to speak again.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:59:43
no Councillor Polly Blakenhall.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:59:55
Thank you, Chair, I just wanted to pick up on Councillor Goddess positivity.
In terms of the the MB provision, which seems to be really high.
in contrast to where we were with them post Dr just there, I'm just trying to get it up in front of me, but from memory I think there there were about 14 EV charge points for the supermarket and another 5 for the
for the died food, so that's a nice, high proportion and all heading in the right direction, and I just wonder if we could have some clarity around the bus improvement because something that sort still sticks in my mind is a bit uncertain.
And I know it's a requirement of our electorate as well and the bus contribution so can we be sure that there will be a meaningful contribution because I can detect some reluctance around that on behalf of the applicant at the moment, thank you,
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:00:53
Well, I think, yes, the applicant doesn't accept that a contribution of 310,000 pounds a year for four full users reasonably related in scale to the development, and I think it's a view that officers share what that would in effect pay for would be an additional bus service and additional bus per hour.
Throughout the day,
When the the development itself doesn't generate a need for one, there is an entire bus load of of need being generated by this development, so I think we, as officers, are reasonably happy that there is a need for a contribution to bus services and what we're pushing KCC and Stagecoach today is to provide a figure that they can cogently justify and that we consider meets the excessive section Regulation 1 2 2 4 CIL Regulations which, amongst other things requires the contribution to be reasonably.
It related in scale and kind to the development and necessary to make the development acceptable, so discussions were ongoing with KCC and Stagecoach and we hope to be in a position where we can, where we can reach agreement.
But if it is impossible to do so, as set out in the recommendation was seeking delegated authority to
To achieve a reasonable and acceptable bus contribution or none at all if agreement cannot be reached, I think it's important to bear in mind that, as part of the off-site works, improvements could be made to the bus stops in the vicinity of the site, which should hopefully encourage further use of the existing service.
I would just add, of course, that by including the bus service they're
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:02:43
going to cut down a number of cars clogging, apart from 80,000 pounds.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:02:50
We could only hope, Councillor sheep, thank you just a question on
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 1:02:54
trees.
I note, of course, that if the trees that are planted during the first five years has a requirement to to replace them.
it would be nice to see a few more trees breaking up, as obviously the masses of tarmac.
And I'm just aware that there's I can think of at least a couple of supermarkets that did have trees, and now the trees are gone and there's just fast bare tarmac.
I guess, is there anything we can do at planning to require the trees to stay.
In perpetuity, as long as there's a car park there and it would be, as I said, it would be nice to see a few more because, yeah, things are only gonna get hotter and no trees will help to cool, keep things cool and as I said it's just yeah huge amounts of tarmac there, thank you.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:04:01
And where we can't require them by conditions be retained in perpetuity, if it's the decision of the Committee that additional planting should take place, then we can we can take that away as part of the delegated authority from the Committee and seek improvements to the so the landscaping scheme.
Councillor Sheard, would you like to put that forward?
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:04:28
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 1:04:31
I not everyone is happy with that, it is very much like to Mr Wu.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:04:36
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:04:50
Councillor Goddard, as you proposed, would you be happy for us to ask for some extra landscaping within the actual cement car park area?
Cllr Clive Goddard - 1:05:00
As all wife's illness committed your wife's portrait and I am more than happy for the wedding to have a conversation with Mr England about some extra trees, bushes or similar, as well as echoing.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:05:17
thank you and Councillor Fuller, would you still second on more than
Cllr Gary Fuller - 1:05:19
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:05:22
happy to support green, want wonderful, I also lived just down the road.
From this?
I absolutely support my experience of driving down this road, especially in what we regard as prime time, which happens to be the school drop off or the school pick-up time, it is a nightmare down there, I do have concerns personally regarding the amount of fumes that the children will be breathing in as they walk along.
Especially when it does back up, and it does back right the way up to Radnor Park it has done previously, however, I'm also aware that this particular site
looks awful, it's derelict, it's not being used.
The development already has permission that just asking to change it from a hotel to a supermarket, which in turn may bring extra jobs, much-needed jobs are hasten to add in the area, and also the landscaping will actually make this less of an eyesore.
and possibly helpfully not being air, so from my personal view on this, because I cannot see any policies that this actually goes against, I will be personally agreeing with this, but we have one proposal on the table that was proposed by Councillor Goddard seconded by Councillor Fuller with the inclusion of the extra landscaping if you wouldn't mind all those in favour, please raise your hand.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:07:10
I believe that is unanimous and has passed, thank you.

7 24/0466/FH - 25 Dymchurch Road, St Mary's Bay, Romney Marsh

Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:07:21
So we move on to the last application for the evening, which is 24 dash 0 4 6 6 or dash F H, which is 25 Doom Church Road, St Mary's by
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:07:36
in Romney, Marsh, do you have any updates, please, thank you, Chair, no updates.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:07:43
We have no updates and we have no speakers, I believe, on this one, so
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 1:07:47
over to you Councillors, Councillor Wansbeck.
Thank you, thank you, Chair, I've offered this a couple of times and I really cannot see.
Why this can't go ahead, so I'm moving the recommendation now.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:08:01
As I stated and Councillor Pontesbury, but thank you we have Councillor Blake, and would you like to second Councillor Cooper now I'd like to speak against, if you don't mind, please firstly, do I
Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:08:13
have a seconder for Councillor Mosby Councillor Goddard, Councillor Cooper,
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:08:17
thank you Chair.
I have asked for this to be come before the Committee because
Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:08:23
primarily in St Mary's Bay, we actually called a neighbourhood plan that went through the whole village in 2017 and was adopted by the District Council in 2019, and that forms what should be happening in the St Mary Marsh until 2027 on page 11 of this Local Plan and it says quite clearly at paragraph 4 3 4,
and I quote.
industrial and business developments at Mountfield Road Rumney there is no desire to replicate this form of development in St Mary's, but I understand there has been an objection, at least on that basis, when this came before the Parish Council, of which I'm a member and which I did not take part in this decision.
It was noted thereby one of the Councillors. These issues regarding parking,
and also for the Committee to take the neighbours' considerations into account, and therefore I'm going to mean refusal, because it's against the Local Plan.
Thank you, would anyone else like to speak on this Councillor Mike Blakemore first?
I remember rightly when this was coming to us before, when it was polytunnels instead of a shed it was recommended for refusal, so I am interested in, is it simply the fact it's now inside a shared not in a polytunnel that has changed things because I have I have some sympathy with the neighbour who is basically saying apart from that what else has changed still sceptical about some of the things about the fish are dispatched by post not collected when it does still say on the website.
The collection can be made by appointment, only they still talk about having open days on their Facebook. They've had 66 check-ins on Facebook, they may not all be customers, they could just be family coming round, but there clearly are people visiting the sites. I have some sympathy with a neighbour that this this is a business being carried out there in a residential area, and I'm interested in why we're now recommending acceptance rather than refusal.
Can any officer enlighten us, sorry, Councillor Cooper, can you turn your microphone please?
Thank you.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:10:39
Thank you them, the main objection to the previous scheme was GT possible light and noise emissions coming from the polytunnels and the fact that they are very sort of lightweight structure, the recommendation has now changed because it is purely within the existing outbuilding and having visited the site there was no audible noise emissions or
any sort of light pollution or anything like that on visiting the site, that's the main changes in a proposed.
Could I just make a point on the points you want to make is this
Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:11:12
basically this is going on for a couple of years without any checks or balances its apparent retrospective application and also between the middle of the residential development and at the end of the day, as I say it's against the Local Plan which went into a referendum and it's quite clear there.
That is targeted development and I've got every sympathy with the applicant.
As well as their neighbour, unfortunately.
Not allowed, and it should have been clamped on straight away, with all due respect as a private department by the enforcement team, then I was just allowed to drag on, I mean I can't comment on that in the world, obviously in public, but the point being is it's against the Local Plan and please take that into account.
thank you, Councillor Cooper, Councillor Polley, blank move.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:12:01
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:12:04
It's a reiterating what the the other Councillor Bateman said, really, though it does say in in the report at 7.00 paragraphs 7.12 customers cannot visit and no Fisher sold on site but not, as in direct, contribute contradiction to the website which does advertise open days and viewing appointments.
Thank you, I just like to ask the officers regarding the point that
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:12:26
Councillor Cooper has raised about this, not being in the Local Plan and in fact it's stating that this sort of development would not be allowed.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:12:39
Thank you Chair and will have put a copy per St Mary in mosh neighborhood plan on the screen in front of me and I whilst I I understand Councillor Keeper's point and the paragraph in question, I think there's for point 3.4 and that is really considering larger scale industrial and business development so industrial estates office development rather than sort of piecemeal home business use in in terms of whether the development is contrary to the Local Plan will visit, the report examines,
The developments in light of the policies in the Local Plan and concludes that it's acceptable if, if Members are concerned regarding visitors to the site customers, et cetera, we could consider imposing an additional condition that would restrict when the site was able to accept visitors or indeed whether it was able to at all I'd need to.
Consider with colleagues how that could be enforced, but are thinking it is certainly a condition that we could consider applying.
and obviously in terms of enforcement action and the fact that the application is part retrospective will members in terms of the way you can give that, I would say it's very limited, so what what Members need to consider is the acceptability of development, regardless of the fact that it is it is retrospective in nature.
Thank you
Would anyone else like to speak on this?
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:14:17
Councillor Cooper can I just add dish chairs, if I may, please
Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:14:22
even allowed the application, in my view, this is like riding a coach and horses through the planning policies that, basically, is giving people in the future a licence to beach beach planning control, then make an application later for retrospective permission, and I think the answer should be in my view,
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:14:45
What I would say is, even though it's retrospective, you have to look at it as if it was its first application today and that it doesn't actually exist, I know that sounds rather strange, but you have to look at it as if it has come forward for the application today and you have to decide whether it is acceptable or is not.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:15:11
We have one proposer to accept the
Officers' recommendations did you want to put a counter-proposal in yesterday, out of my voice, I was put one forward of refusal.
Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:15:26
I have a seconder.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:15:29
So I will go for the refusal first now I'll go for the because sorry,
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:15:37
Polly Blackman, and can I just clarify if we're gonna add that condition about visitors and open days to the exceptions proposal?
Councillor Goddard.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:15:50
I'm sorry, Councillor Mosby, can I just get the officer's advice on
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 1:15:53
that please?
Llywelyn Lloyd - 1:15:59
thank you Chair, I think you could craft a condition which limited the hours of visiting the sites rather than their ability to do that when and what sort of employment activity could be will have to Kränzle Croft, something?
I will take a bit more time than this was a couple of minutes we've had this evening, but I refuse to delegate to it, yes, we probably could craft something.
Councillor King.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 1:16:28
they don't know how quickly that would be policed, like many conditions, I suspect if it was being breached, we would hear about it very, very quickly from local residents, as we do for most breaches across the district, and then we would have to enforce.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:16:47
okay, so, Councillor Holmes, we are you, would you be happy in your
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 1:16:49
proposal to allow the officers to craft, thank you and your seconder,
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:16:54
thank you, so our first.
the proposal that we are going to vote on is to accept the officer's recommendation, with extra conditions to be crafted regarding visitors being able to visit and boy the fish for want of a better word, so all those in private please raise your hand.
Those against.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:17:22
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:17:27
Any abstentions.
Mr Alex Baker - 1:17:39
Thank you Chair, that's five in five or six against, and no abstentions, thank you, so that proposal has fallen, so I go on to
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:17:47
Councillor Cooper's proposal, which is to go against the recommendation, however, I need some solid reasons first why you wish
Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:18:02
to go against it. Can I suggest HB 1 paragraph 6, and can I also quote section 38 g, over 2004 Planning and Compulsory Purchase Act as well. Please, thank you
Thank you Chair.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 1:18:15
Thank you, Councillor Cooper, unfortunately you haven't identified any material planning harm.
So I would need you to, I don't need the policies we can do that bit for you, but I do need to understand the material planning harms which you think would occur as a result of this developments, mindful of everything, the officers' report says about noise disturbance, etc and the ability, I might add, that the government are clear and planning law says where you can use conditions to make something acceptable you should so I think you need to identify the material planning harm and then see if your seconder agrees with that point. Okay, kind of
Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:18:55
suggest, for example, that we quote
that we felt that it would be contrary to Local Plan for a mixed use development in respect of what uses in respect of volume.
In respect of the future use and detrimental harm or amenity to existing or future residents of the area.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 1:19:17
Could you, but that I think we're saying that it's harmful to residential amenity?
Kitchen, could you please explain why right it would be harmful to
Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:19:25
future debate or residential amenity, because it is not within the Neighbourhood Plan at point 1.2 as it would be detrimental to future residents of the area Israel, as well as being contrary to mixed use in this area because it's a residential area full stop and I think
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:19:47
what the officers trying to get to Councillor Cooper is why would it be harmful not just the policy, why would this actually be detrimental to neighbours?
It would be detrimental in respect of the youth and also future
Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:20:04
parking and visitors to Sinead, irrespective of the conditions, because I'm not reassured that any condition new garden limited parking would be effectively policed or be able to wear be enforced, it's simple.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:20:44
thank thank you Chair.
my suggestion to members is that, as as Mr Lloyd has said, where where harm can be successfully mitigated by condition, the government advice is clear that planning permission should be refused, so I would suggest that.
Members are clearly set out what their concerns are in respect of this development, we can explore whether conditions can be imposed to address those concerns, but we can also look closer at the Neighbourhood Plan and because, like I said, I don't think in my view based on on the text in front of me the neighbourhood plan doesn't set out that.
Businesses that are run from residential dwellings are unacceptable as a matter of principle.
The plan does set out that the main focus for industrial and business development is is at Mountfield Road in New Romney and there's no desire to replicate that form of development at St Mary's Bay now I think it would be very difficult to argue that this application seeks to replicate that form of development at St Mary's boats are very small-scale business run in a in from a albeit large but from a domestic outbuilding, so I think we would struggle to defend that on appeal.
So that's that's my suggestion to members is is whether it might be worth considering deferral of the application setting out the issues that Members want further information on in sending officers away two weeks, explore that and come back to the committee with with an updated report, thank you.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:22:35
Thank you, Mr Bailey, Councillor Cooper, would you be happy to defer at this point I'll be happy to leave, I'd be happy for that because,
Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:22:44
agenda day I feel what we would be doing here, which we will be indoors and retail use of the premises in a residential area thank you, Councillor Councillor Caine as the secondary would you be happy
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:22:53
for deferral at this point?
fine, so we have a new proposal and that's to die for to have a look at the conditions, have a look at the plan etc and for the officers to come back.
And give us some more information and some clarity almost in five years of deferral, please
thank you those against.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:23:22
Abstentions.
Mr Alex Baker - 1:23:32
thank you Chair, that's seven in favour, 0 against and 4 abstentions, thank you, so we are going to defer this and it will come back with
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:23:38
further information and clarity, thank you very much.

8 Appeals Monitoring Report April 2023 - March 2024

Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:23:51
So thank you very much for that Councillors, we have one last piece of business, so to speak, which is the appeals monitoring report that we have at the back of your report, which will give us an update on how we're doing basically whether we're making good decisions.
Would anyone like to talk us through it very briefly,
Thank you Chair good evening Councillors, we've been sending you monthly updates on appeals month by month, showing you how we're doing in decisions and how the inspector at whether they agreeing with us or not this report tries to capture the last year or so and looks back at previous is to see if we are getting better because we've had an internal drive to try and improve our success rates. In conclusion, we are winning a greater proportion of our appeals and we're being supported by the Planning Inspectorate, which is good news.
and I think that's a trend that we hope to continue over the next 12 months or so, and we will keep working with you.
And applicants to ensure that trend continues, we are within the government's targets as a Council, so we're not at risk of planning special measures because we're failing to defend enough appeals to government, require us to win at least one in every 10, and we're doing that comfortably at the moment, so any questions on the report.
Open to the floor,
I get any questions Councillors.
No, I think it looks very clear to us that we are definitely moving in the right direction, can I thank everyone, including the officers this evening and the members of the public, and that stayed to the end, have a safe journey home, everybody and we'll see you next time thank you very much.