Overview and Scrutiny Committee - Tuesday 19 November 2024, 6:00pm

Overview and Scrutiny Committee
Tuesday, 19th November 2024 at 6:00pm

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Cllr Laura Davison
Mr Jake Hamilton
Cllr Laura Davison

2 Declarations of Interest

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Declarations of Interest

Cllr Laura Davison
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Laura Davison

3 Minutes

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Minutes , 24/09/2024 Overview and Scrutiny Committee

Cllr Alan Martin
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Laura Davison

4 Minutes of the Finance and Performance Sub-Committee

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Minutes , 24/09/2024 Finance and Performance Scrutiny Sub-Committee

5 Cabinet Member updates

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Cab member update

Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Jeremy Speakman
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr James Butcher
Cllr Jeremy Speakman
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Jeremy Speakman
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Jeremy Speakman
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Jeremy Speakman
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Jeremy Speakman
Cllr Jeremy Speakman
Mr Ewan Green
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Jeremy Speakman
Cllr Stephen Scoffham
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Stephen Scoffham
Cllr Laura Davison
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Stephen Scoffham
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Jeremy Speakman
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Stephen Scoffham
Cllr Laura Davison
Councillor Tony Hills
Cllr Stephen Scoffham
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Stephen Scoffham
Cllr Laura Davison

6 Corporate Plan - Consultation Responses

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Adrian Tofts
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr James Butcher
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr John Wing
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Elaine Martin
Cllr Laura Davison
Mr Ewan Green
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr James Butcher
Cllr Laura Davison
Adrian Tofts
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Stephen Scoffham
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr James Butcher
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr James Butcher
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr James Butcher
Adrian Tofts
Cllr James Butcher
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Stephen Scoffham
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Elaine Martin
Adrian Tofts
Cllr Elaine Martin
Adrian Tofts
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Laura Davison
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Connor McConville
Adrian Tofts
Cllr Connor McConville
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr James Butcher
Cllr Laura Davison
Adrian Tofts
Cllr Laura Davison

8 Green Grant Programme

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Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Stephen Scoffham
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Anita Jones
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Stephen Scoffham
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr James Butcher
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Mr Ewan Green
Cllr James Butcher
Cllr Laura Davison
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Disclaimer: This transcript was automatically generated, so it may contain errors. Please view the webcast to confirm whether the content is accurate.

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to this meeting of the Overview

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:05

and Scrutiny Committee.

The meeting will be webcast live to the Internet. For those who don't wish to be recorded or

filmed, you'll need to leave the chamber. For members, officers, and others speaking

at the meeting, it's important that the microphones are used so viewers on the webcast and others

in the room may hear you. Would anyone with a mobile phone please switch it to silent

mode as they can be distracting? And I'd like to remind members that although we all have

on matters under consideration.

It's important to treat members,

officers and public speakers with respect.

Good evening everybody and so we're

going to start our meeting this

1 Apologies for Absence

evening with apologies for absence.

Thank you chair.

We have one apology from

Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:00:43

Councilor Chapman. Thank you

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:45

very much and are there any

declarations of interest?

2 Declarations of Interest

Council Hills.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:52

Thank you and I'd like to declare

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:00:58

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:01:00

I'm a member of the corporate plan working group because we'll be discussing the corporate

plan later on in our session.

So if there's no other declarations then we'll move on to the minutes of our last meeting

3 Minutes

which was on the 24th of September.

So I just wanted to flag up that that was a very long meeting that we had with guests

from various agencies and there were a lot of good questions

and points put by councillors during the session.

I'd like to thank our officers for capturing those in the

minutes and also for following up with the organisations very

diligently and persistently after the session.

We have now had some responses ahead of tonight's meeting and

they're going to be collated and circulated to members and

they're also going to be appended to the notes of the

session of the last meeting.

So for people who were watching at home and want to see the answers that have come, if

you look back at the session from the 24th of September, once those have been collated,

they'll be published there so you can see the answers.

There is still more that we need to follow up, but you will be able to see there the

responses that we've had so far.

And also just to thank you to members of the committee for your reflections on the session

that we had.

Those points John and I have shared with officers in terms of how we might move forward with

some of those issues.

And so we can kind of take those forward in discussion with officers as to how we proceed

following on from that meeting.

So are there any kind of comments on those minutes this evening?

No?

Okay.

Can I see a proposer?

Councillor Hill's in a seconder.

Councilor butchell those in agreement.

OK, thank you and the minutes of the

Finance and Performance Subcommittee

on the says 24th of September here.

Are there any comments on those minutes?

Are you proposing Councilor Martin

or is that comment? Yeah,

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:03:13

it was just in that meeting again.

We've had. Quite a bit of free.

Switch it off and switch it on again.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:03:53

Sorry about that.

We raised quite a few points around KPIs that we would like changed,

which was a follow -up from the previous meeting.

I don't remember seeing...

For instance, we asked a question on fly -tipping,

whether or not it could be recorded

whether that fly -tipping was on public or private land.

I don't think I've seen a response on that yet.

I know we have had some responses circulated after the meeting.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:04:25

there was an email that went to the committee just earlier on this month.

So it's probably worth us collectively just revisiting that

just to see if there are any outstanding points.

But there has been a follow -up email after the session.

I couldn't specifically comment on that particular point,

but let's have a look back.

Okay, can I see a proposer for those minutes?

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:04:46

Councillor Conville and a seconder?

Thanks, Councillor Martin. All those in agreement?

Thank you.

4 Minutes of the Finance and Performance Sub-Committee

5 Cabinet Member updates

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:05:01

We're double honoured this evening.

We've got two members of the Cabinet with us to present some updates on their portfolios

and an opportunity for members to ask questions.

I think we've agreed that Councillor Speakman is going to go first.

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Chair.

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:05:18

This is because I've got sort of three aspects to my portfolio, which is health and safety,

assets and waste management broadly.

This is going to be a brief amount of time,

so this is going to be a very broad brush, impressionistic,

kind of retrospective on where we are now

and where we might be going in the future.

So, I was open to questions.

So, first and foremost, just a very quick look at health and safety.

The key point there really is that we're responding

to an audit which raised some from East Kent Audit Pardship,

raised some issues around need to improve some of our,

and update our procedures and basically streamline

our reporting and centralisation of records.

That's all in hand.

There's been an interim contact back with the auditors

and they're very happy about how that's progressing

and obviously I monitor that on a monthly basis

with the officers concerned.

I think that's reporting back toward it in governance in December.

So that's basically all I can say on that point.

So moving on.

Assets.

Well, of course, there's two aspects to this really.

There's the kind of...

I suppose the properties that we are developing

and also there's the kind of parks and ground maintenance.

I think first and foremost what I want to say

is I think right from the outset when I was elected

I think I've been enormously impressed by the team,

by their kind of entrepreneurial spirit,

they're responsive, I think they've taken on

some particularly complex and difficult projects.

They've taken on the sites which are very difficult,

like Ship Street, the old gas works.

That one has been particularly challenging.

Biggins Wood has also been quite challenging

but I think we're coming to an end point on that one.

And on top of this, they've had to contend with

the land slips on the Road of Remembrance

and in the Coastal Park

and working with KCC, particularly on the road of remembrance,

as ongoing work and stabilisation works going with that.

And also in the coastal park, again, I think there's ongoing work

in terms of looking how to stabilise that area

and also replace the playground,

which has really come to the end of its life.

So that's ongoing, which I think will be good news.

Good to see some interesting developments in the marsh.

For example, we've got Coast Drive, which is going to be coming on stream.

Again, quite challenging.

Cabinet members will recall the paper

about where the team have had to contend

with a last -minute challenge from UKPN

requiring a larger substation.

So that's required a manageable increase in budget.

But that's still on track to deliver, I think, 90,

I believe, chalets and a visitor's

center next year, autumn.

And we're also obviously heavily engaged,

as I'm sure Councilor Hill will testify,

to looking at how we can promote and redevelop

at the Romney Marsh visitor centre

following Kent Wildlife Centre,

withdrawing from that.

That's been a very good exercise

involving a number of key stakeholders

in looking to see how we can develop that.

That's on the asset side, I suppose.

On the grants maintenance,

again, I think they should be congratulated.

I think they're very stretched.

It's very interesting, one of the comments I make,

that every year the growing season seems to get longer.

And I think that's a fair feeling.

It is an indication, I'm afraid, of climate change.

There are warmer, wetter periods where they're mowing for longer,

shorter periods where they can, as it were,

consolidate and prepare for the following spring.

I think that's an additional challenge.

But despite that, they have had huge success

in terms of year -on -year green flag status in Kings North

Gardens, in Royal Military Canal, the coastal park.

And I've forgotten the other one.

Sorry, but there's definitely four of them.

They've done very well on that.

And then moving on to waste management.

Again, I think I'd want to commend the officers and the

It's obviously a key part of that is our partnership,

which is our largest contract with Veolia,

which we manage alongside with our colleagues in Dover

and a joint waste management team.

Again, I would say that when I first was elected and took on the portfolio,

I think it would be fair to say that there were some tensions

between us and Veolia and the waste management team.

I think people will recall there were quite a lot of issues

of lots of piles of rubbish on the seafront and other areas.

There was a particularly poor audit later in 23.

And I think what happened there was it allowed a kind of a reset.

And I think we were quite...

Working with our colleagues in Dover and with Violia,

and I think it helped to clear the air in terms of what were our priorities.

And I think from that point on, I think it's been a very, very good working relationship.

And I think with Veolia, they've actually generally done us, I think, pretty well.

I mean, there's always going to be problems and issues, but we've avoided things like

the very damaging strikes that have happened in other local authority areas.

We've got some nice little freebies from Veolia, like the electric bike cart, which I think

has been very successful going up and down the promenade.

And also, I think one of the recent things, which

I think has been very good, is we've

responded to concerns around a lack of recycling facilities

for about 600 homes because of narrow access routes.

And we've now put in a whole new different regime

so that they can now have that service.

and we are currently recycling an additional eight tonnes

of recycled material every two weeks.

All in all, I think it's been...

I feel it's...

We have...

I think the service has improved a lot.

Clearly there's always room for improvement.

The other thing we have to be mindful of is there are a number of...

It's a very high -profile area nationally,

waste management and recycling.

There are a number of things coming down the track.

We are very much horizon scanning

and see how we are going to be affected by that

in terms of our relationship with EOLI going forward.

We're mindful of the contract finishes in 2029

and also how we will relate to our arrangements

not only with Doba but with ACC going forward.

That's me. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. I'll open it up to questions

from members of the committee.

Councillor Hills.

Thank you, Chair.

I must say it's been a pleasure working with Jeremy.

I know we're not always the same opinions,

but you have been a pleasure to work with.

You're doing an excellent job.

I have to say that when it comes to the business sense,

you're working with the community, that is important.

So thank you for that.

I'm looking forward to seeing how we end up with that.

but I think we're going the right way.

Now when it comes to waste, I'm Deputy Cabinet Member at Kent

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:13:50

for waste amongst other things, on the environment side,

and we are doing really well in Foulkes and Hyde.

Some districts are still commingling,

their food waste is not separated.

There are things coming down the track and we all handle them, I'm sure you will.

But I think Foulkes and Hyde is doing really well,

I'm sorry about all this good news.

It goes against the grain, isn't it?

But it's true. I think we're doing a good job,

and the owner's been doing a good job, working with Dover.

I'd like to see more of that. We have one or two challenges,

like waste centres and stuff coming along,

but that's great. So thank you, Jeremy, for your help so far.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:14:34

Thanks, Councillor Hills. Any other comments or questions?

Councillor Butcher?

Yes, thanks chair, so this was not necessarily for immediate answer but thinking about the

Cllr James Butcher - 0:14:45

coastal park and how significant that is for both residents and visitors and I guess the

thing that comes up each year is litter and the capacity of the system to cope with just

the huge quantities of litter and I suppose at the moment the landslide we talk about

less is the one that's shut off the cow path and so I guess not necessarily looking for

answer now but I guess it's a request that it would be great to hear some thinking at

some point about how we both maintain the Coastal Park in a way that visitors and residents

expect and whether there's any update available at some point about that second landscape.

Well if I may make a personal reflection rather than necessarily hopefully committing the,

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:15:25

looking at you in here, I think we have within our existing budget constraints and

echoing what Councillor Hill has been saying,

I think we have tweaked and squeezed the earlier

about as far as we can.

I think clearly there's always a little bit of room

for removal, but the major things I think we've tackled.

I think extra bins is not actually,

they just get filled up and then there's more waste.

I'm sorry to say, I think it's more a question

of enforcement and I think we need,

and I think as a council we need to be looking at that aspect much more closely,

if we want to really tackle that problem.

Councillor Jones.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:16:10

Just a couple of things.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:16:11

Personally, brilliant that recycling rates are up.

We used to recycle Tetra -Paks

and I'm really frustrated that the earlier don't do that any more.

I don't know if there's any room for that.

So I don't know if that's been discussed with them at all.

I would have to check that and come back to you, I'm afraid.

I don't know the answer to that one.

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:16:33

I don't know why that would be the case.

I'm not sure.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:16:38

And then just the other thing with regards to waste.

I'm really passionate about having campaigns

where you just encourage people to take their litter home

rather than providing more bins.

I wonder whether we could do a build -up towards next year's summer season

and actually just say to people,

if you bought it with you, you could take it home.

It makes a big difference.

You visit some places, some places I visited in the summer,

where they didn't have bins,

and then people just take it because there's nowhere to put it.

Sometimes if there's a bin,

people will just pile it next to the bin if it's full.

If there's no bin, they actually do take it away.

So it's a brave move of a council to obviously remove bins,

but if we could do a campaign, that would be really good.

Certainly happy to look at that, Councillor.

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:17:25

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:17:28

I saw Councillor Conville first and then Councillor Martin.

More bins, I'm afraid.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:17:37

When we were looking at some quite difficult choices around budget proposals,

pretty much this time last year, there was discussion of

having a district -wide bin assessment,

some sort of bin mapping where we could see

where they were across the district,

where are the ones that are being filled up too much

or where are the ones that are not being used.

It's not saying we need more bins,

but maybe they need to be moved around a little bit

and allow ward councillors and residents to feed into that.

I don't know if that's still something that's in the background?

That is actually still ongoing.

I think it was a bigger task than we originally anticipated,

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:18:27

but we are actually carrying on with that mapping exercise.

We also have criteria now,

which is where we assess...

If we see that there is a problem bin,

or even whether there should be a bin,

in terms of how far it is away from another bin,

the density of footfall, all that kind of stuff,

there are clear criteria.

And I think we have...

I don't wish to commit ourselves,

but there is a little bit of flexibility

allowing us to be able to...

Where there's a bin, that is particularly beyond use.

and it is clearly an area where there is a need for a bin,

it could be by a bus stop or something like that,

we have replaced them and we are continuing to replace those.

There's one for example in Cheriton

with that new active travel layout,

that's been replaced.

There have been other bins by the Tesco's in Cheriton

that's been replaced as well by the bus station.

So I think it's a little bit ad hoc,

but in a way people, if they can be their inner eyes

come back to us and say,

look, can you have a look at this, it's in a complete state

and we would look to replace them if we possibly can.

Just to come back, because you mentioned bus stations,

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:19:55

the bin by the central station, stop B,

which is on the Kegan North Garden side,

that bin was removed quite a few months ago.

I don't know if there's one planning to be replaced with it

because now there's no bin.

I can make a note and come back to you on that card.

That's all I can promise to do.

A very specific bin -related question.

On that, it would be useful,

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:20:18

do you have a sense of when the bin mapping exercise might be completed

and what it will look like when it is?

Is it a list or is it actually a kind of visual representation?

Or that would be useful to know.

Ewan, are you able to help me on that one at all?

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:20:34

Mr Ewan Green - 0:20:37

So I think it's still something we're looking at, but certainly what we're trying to do is break it down geographically, map it, and then I think as we spoke about at the previous meetings, align that with the earlier lists to make sure that we've got the right scheduling and the right times for bin emptying.

So we will have lists, we will have it mapped.

It just is proving to this Councillor speaking,

it's proving to be a bigger task than we anticipated at the start

when we first talked about it last year.

Councillor Martin.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:21:12

Thank you, Chair.

Just an observation on bins.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:21:18

This wasn't the point I was going to raise,

but the Romney Marsh litter pickers who do a fantastic job on the Marsh

actually run their own private network of bins which they collect rubbish from themselves

in strategic places where they believe there should be a bin.

So I just thought I'd mention that because they do a sterling job.

I was just going to pick briefly on sort of following on the recycling theme that Councillor

Jones raised.

I just wonder whether we can come up with some clearer guidance for people because Super

seem to be changing their packaging quite a lot these days

and I think I mentioned in the previous meeting that I spent 10 minutes staring at my various bins in my kitchen

not quite sure how to dispose of a chicken Kiev packet

which I think was cardboard with a film over the top of it

but having had raw chicken in it I didn't want to put it in the bin that I would normally put my cardboard stuff into

but you're seeing the sarnias in wooden packaging

and you're seeing Kievs in cardboard packaging

and I think the world's getting a bit more complicated now

and I don't think...

Certainly in my household I think we're in danger of recycling less

because out of confusion we're putting stuff in the waste bin.

If I could defer to my recycling expert on my ride

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:22:49

and then you'll respond to that.

Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:22:53

I'm billed as the recycling expert,

but I was going to just touch briefly on the ATAZ,

which is very easy to access.

I had not quite such a difficult problem of you the other day.

I had some polystyrene,

how it's wrapped up, the electric good with polystyrene.

Would that recycle or not? I've got no idea.

Although I'm a recycling expert.

So I went to the ATAZ and there it was, I called up polystyrene,

as soon as they got there, told me what it was.

No, it can't be done.

So that's fine, you know, but the problem we've got is

that what can be recycled in one part of Kent

may not be the same in another part of Kent,

so you get confusion about that.

So people move in and they think,

well, we recycled it in the past,

no, we can't recycle it there.

And the government, there was a proposal, I believe,

for a national sort of standard system

that was going to be introduced.

It's complicated and it's not an easy one to solve.

I take your point about the difficulties of knowing what can be recycled

and what can't be recycled, but communications of the data set is one

and I think that's a good starting point.

And I think on the...

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:24:10

Cardboard coming into what used to be plastic packaging

seems to be one of the big ones for me

and I noticed when we were down in Cornwall in the summer

that they actually allow for cardboard to be put in with,

I think, plastic and tin recycling,

and I wonder whether that's in response to that.

Personally, I'd be very pleased to think that the supermarkets

Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:24:33

were able to take recycling more,

take some of the packaging that they've got back and recycle it

and make it easier for us.

Plastic is one example of a really tricky one,

which most people probably don't appreciate.

Soft plastic, the film, that's a problem.

Medium weight plastic, the container that some of the vegetables come in,

that's OK, get it a bit heavier and again it can't be recycled.

So you've got to ask what type of plastic is it?

It gets ridiculously complicated.

Ultimately it's the packaging industry that would make all the difference.

I'm sorry to say that the legislation which was being prepared on that

to reduce the footprint of packaging of goods which are sold

has been watered down recently.

So what looked like a promising bit of legislation is now less promising.

But that's the swing of the pendulum.

We negotiate the best we can, but as I say,

if we can get shops and supermarkets to make it easier to take things back,

that would be a great help and maybe that is a useful steer

for future activity.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:25:43

Any other comments for Councillor Speakman?

Councillor Ellington.

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:25:53

Yes, it's a challenging area, recycling, because you are getting more and more regulations

coming in and they should.

We've just got to educate people more and more.

The sticker campaign which Councillor Speakman recently took part in to stop or persuade

not to put food waste in their household bin,

I don't know the result of that yet.

Hopefully it's going the right way.

This is the overlap, isn't it?

My portfolio overlaps with everything, so it's a tricky one.

I was going to mention the food waste.

I can mention it now. It might be as good a thing as we can.

It is in conjunction with KCC.

KCC are pleased to say, paying 70 % of the cost,

I think we pay 30%.

Food waste contamination is the worst form.

That's one of the things we really need to look at.

And a third of our food waste goes into the general waste.

So getting more of the food waste recycled

would be really good to get into the right containers.

The campaign, the data takes time to process.

It shows the campaign began in mid -September.

The first couple of weeks show a 4 % increase

in food waste recycling, which is encouraging.

We're pleased to see that. We don't know how it's coming up.

That's a good start.

Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:27:11

The food caddies were another part of that campaign.

There's some really interesting news there

that 800 or so caddies were delivered

in the period from mid -September to early November,

so in that six -week period.

Normally, it's about 170.

The previous comparable period, it was 170.

That's a three or four -fold increase

in the number of food caddies being delivered.

and they were being supplied at a reduced rate.

They weren't free because we thought if we let them out free,

people would say, great, we've got a free bit of plastic

which we could use for anything, but a tenner seemed to be about right.

So it's a very encouraging campaign and we're really pleased to be doing it.

So I think putting that price on it about £10

is because a lot of people have got damaged caries,

why don't they stop to use them or whatever?

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:27:57

But I think making it valuable at the same time is a very good move.

and my local New Romney household waste reciting centre,

I'm pushing to get a reuse centre there to recycle things for charity.

We're looking to a Kent that's coming,

but it's not as easy in some places you might think.

But if you want to go on the Kent website, they've got quite a bit of information there.

But I think we're doing a good job. Thank you.

Sorry, I was slightly anecdotally, but my wife being Swedish,

I went over there and, sad person,

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:28:35

I was given a tour of recycling centres in Sweden.

And that is great, brilliant.

But, I mean, my God, they are just state of the art.

And they have their reused centres where you literally...

It's almost like a free shop and people come along

and they just collect things which are perfectly reusable.

I think it's a great thing for people.

and I think that's what we want.

I can't see it would be very difficult.

Thank you.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:29:02

Councillor Scoffron, we've covered some of what you were going to remark.

Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:29:07

You did ask me to be brief at the very beginning.

Have you got other updates you'd like to give?

Would you like me to take just three minutes?

Please do.

The first thing I'd like to say is...

Not only have I really enjoyed picking up on what Councillor Speakman said,

not only have I really found...

I have treasured the working relationship I have with all the senior officers who I've dealt with.

It's been a really constructive year, since I first appeared here,

and I reflected on the way in which, fairly early on,

I found myself attending a blog or a webinar on what makes an effective council.

Right up at the top was the culture of the council.

I must say, over the last year I've been very heartened by the culture of this council

and the relationships both within the officers, between the officers,

and the officers' relationship to myself and other cabinet members.

So it's been a very affirmative year.

Very briefly on recycling, I'll just touch on that.

We're about 45 % recycling, slightly above the national average,

difficult to make comparisons between different areas, they're not the same,

but that's where we are.

Could we break through the 50 -50 barrier?

That was a conversation we had in the autumn.

50 -50, can we just get a bit higher?

It's a matter of persuasion, can we get people to do it?

Well, we've talked about it and 50 -50 made sense to me initially,

but I realised out of the blue I had to explain it.

Raise the Rate is a much better title, I think,

and that came from the officers.

They said, why don't we call it Raise the Rate?

We can raise the rate plastic, we can raise the rate food,

we can raise the rate electrical, whatever.

So that's the campaign that they've been working on.

It was hit by PIRDA. First of all we had the election of a certain new councillor for Romley Marsh area,

well not Romley Marsh area, for Dimchurch.

Then we had PIRDA because of the May election.

It all got delayed but it is swinging into action and the food waste campaign I've just touched on is part of it.

And just very briefly, electrical waste recycling, community initiative,

High's community group are doing a great job.

Not vast quantities but it's very good to be doing it

and they collect it from people and people like to see

that it's being properly processed and get where it's going

and go folks to set up their own version of the same sort of electrical recycling

and we hope that that will grow over the coming year or so.

There are other areas both in New Romley and Hawkins

which we're particularly interested in for electrical recycling.

It's not a huge amount. I went to Allington recycling plant, incinerator plant, and it

made a huge impression on me, seeing lorry after lorry coming in at one or two minute

interval and just tipping a whole lot of this rubbish on the floor. And then the bulldozer

pushing it up on the wall, pushing it up on the wall, it got higher and higher. And that

goes on all the time. We produce, Jeremy gave you this figure, the weight of a cross -town

ferry every year in this district.

And if you think of 10 districts or 11 districts

feeding into Allington, that is a quarter of a half a million

tons.

It's absolutely massive.

10 or 11 cost channel ferries worth of weight.

What you were saying, Councillor Cooper,

reminded me of the wonderful added

your motto, reduce, reuse, recycle.

Can we reduce as well as recycle?

That would be great, wouldn't it?

because of the amount of waste, the sheer cost is here.

So that's quickly touching on recycling.

Other parts of my portfolio, like the Green Grant Scheme

and the work that's been going on in carbon reduction

will be featured later.

I might just briefly mention...

Well, there are other aspects to what I've been doing.

The biodiversity motion that we passed in the summer

has given us a good basis, I think.

I'm very pleased that was unanimously voted through by the council.

It's a good basis for discussions.

The ongoing discussions with the UNESCO designation for the Geopark,

that's taking shape

and it's very much appreciated that this council is supporting it.

And I'm currently in negotiations or sort of discussions

around getting more freight from road to rail.

So the freight that comes out of the tunnel,

tunnel, so many lorries on the road.

We've got lots of worries about the European exit and entry

scheme and so on.

So getting that lorries onto the railway, it's a no brainer.

And hopefully, if we lend our support to it,

it will make a difference.

And you've been talking to the MPs and so on about this.

And indeed, Tony Vaughan raised a question

in the House of Parliament about a fortnight ago

on this very topic.

So things are moving forward on a number of fronts.

and another front which has not been quite as vibrant as I would have liked,

but a good start is school projects,

again, working with younger people on things to do with biodiversity,

climate change, a really hot potato for youngsters,

and hopefully that will blossom in the year ahead.

So that's a very quick whistle -stop tour.

Thank you for allowing me a few minutes.

That's much appreciated.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:34:31

Are there any questions to Councillor Scoffle

on that broader part of his portfolio?

Nope.

Go on, Councillor Haynes.

Go on.

It's not fair.

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:34:44

Kansas is going through its environment adaption plan at the moment.

It's gone through my committee committee.

But I really want to work more with districts on this

because climate change is accelerating.

This is purely my opinion. I'm not a scientist, I can't prove it.

I've been studying it longer than most people have been alive.

But it's getting accelerating.

As you saw in Valencia, what can happen 12 inches and 12 and 8 hours,

nobody can handle that sort of problem.

So we have to adapt, have systems of emergency and how we...

But we've got to be positive about it.

I was in a meeting today where he talked about mental health and children.

They're getting more and more depressed over this.

I know people who say they want to have children

because they want to bring them into this world.

It's a horrendous situation.

So what we've got to try and do as district councils

is be more positive

and work with the county on getting as much information

as we can adapt to climate change.

There's areas around here which actually do help with coastline.

You might not be aware, we have fewer seals going into landfill now,

which is the Costa Canet,

because there's fewer fishing boats going out,

because there's fewer fish being caught.

Therefore the nets aren't going out and the seals aren't being drowned

and therefore we're not washing up the beaches.

Strange how these things go round in circles.

But I'd like personally, as a police here anyway,

but work closer with you on how we can adapt with the environment.

You won't be surprised to hear Councillor Hill said I very much welcome that.

Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:36:26

Just a comment on this,

that young people are liable to feel helpless,

they're liable to feel overwhelmed.

Sometimes people say to me in meetings,

what we're going to do doesn't make any difference,

China's doing this, India's doing that, they're doing it.

When we do something, that gives us agency.

If we're looking at the wellbeing of adults and young people,

then giving everybody and allowing people to do something,

there's a huge amount of enthusiasm and latent energy in this community

to do things.

That's illustrated by the Sustainable Futures forums,

which we've just been holding.

Fifty people coming to the discussion the other night.

Fifty people from different walks of life locally.

That's a tremendous start. The foundations are there.

So, I'm very pleased to work with you as much as closely as we can,

because I couldn't agree with you more.

This is the agenda that is crucial for the future.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:37:26

That seems like a good segue, I was about to say, into our next item,

but then I saw Councillor Jones' hand go up.

I was just going to say slight positive,

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:37:33

because obviously we declared our biodiversity emergency

and wanted to look at a plan.

I'm going to be planting lots of tree whips this week,

So I had 400 arrive and I'm working with a county councillor as well

who has another 400.

So, and that, we've got people from the community coming in.

So that's a really positive thing, lots of native trees going in.

So thank you for declaring that and hopefully we're supporting that.

Agency in action.

Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:38:00

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:38:03

So thank you to our cabinet members for coming along this evening.

I think, Councillor Scoville, you're going to stay with us for the later items.

That would be great.

You may be excused, Councillor Speake,

and thanks for coming along.

I think we're going to move on to item eight,

6 Corporate Plan - Consultation Responses

which is corporate plan consultation responses,

which does include the views of young people in our district,

I'm pleased to say.

So I think Adrian's going to introduce this for us.

Adrian Tofts - 0:38:31

Yes, thank you very much.

So this is reporting back on public consultation

on the corporate plan which was held this summer.

The corporate plan has been developed by the working group over a number of months

and we took some early information to this committee in June.

We went to cabinet in July and we got approval to start the consultation

and the consultation was held over a nine week period from July to September.

The corporate working group asked us to use a variety of methods

to reach as many different demographics as we could.

And Jo Gage and her team helped out with that.

I think we are successful in reaching a wide range of groups,

particularly school children and young people.

We also commissioned late research to do some focus groups

with particular demographics.

and we had staff who went round knocking on people's doors

and asking them on the doorstep what their key issues were.

And also the economic development team got involved

and helped us to interview local businesses about their views.

So Appendix 3 of the report gives a rough overview

of the different methods we used and the results.

Appendix 4 is the results of the focus groups

which were conducted by Lake Research.

In summary, we had responses from 525 different individuals and groups,

which I think is a good response,

given that the document is quite high level and broad in scope.

In terms of comments we had, it probably won't surprise you,

public transport came out quite high,

potholes were mentioned frequently and bus services and traffic on the M20.

Antisocial behaviour came out quite high across age groups.

Teenagers highlighted what they felt was a lack of facilities for them

and job opportunities.

Given publicity in the national news and local news,

water quality came across quite strongly as a key concern of people

and protecting and enhancing green spaces.

Affordable housing came out as a strong theme

and businesses were mentioned local traffic problems

and the need to promote the district as a place for investment really.

I think there was nothing unexpected in the results,

but it was striking how many of people's complaints

related to services the District Council doesn't provide,

particularly things around transport and buses and water pollution.

I think we had a useful discussion at the Working Group

about what we might do in terms of those complaints

and how we might provide more information

as to what organisation provides what service

and direct people to the right places to go to raise issues

and also where we as a council might lobby

on behalf of our residents.

So kind of following that consultation work

we redrafted the corporate plan,

their high level themes and priorities

and the revised draft is included

as Appendix 5 to the report.

The next step is to kind of draft the corporate plan

and we would see it as quite a short focused document

and we think it probably just needs some explanatory text

around the themes and priorities to introduce it

and to explain the concept of the Sustainable Development Goals

and also how we're going to translate the plan into actions

through the corporate action plan.

We're hoping to take this to Cabernet in January

and then hopefully on to full council in February for adoption.

It's really only the start of the process,

but hopefully it's a good start. Thank you.

Thanks very much. We do have other officers here

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:43:00

who've been working on the plan

and the feedback and consultation responses that have come in.

I know a lot of work has gone into assessing and collating those,

so thank you for coming along this evening.

Am I open to questions and then perhaps come to you

as we go through if there are particular relevant points

that come up.

So we've got two recommendations in front of us

when we come to the end of the item,

receiving and noting the summary of responses

and noting the recommended updates

to the new corporate plan themes and guiding principles

and to provide comments on the amended version.

So if people could just bear that in mind

as we go through if they have comments

on those updated recommendations that would be helpful.

Are there any colleagues who'd like to start off the discussion?

Councillor Martin.

Thank you.

I mean, first of all, it does look like an excellent piece of work,

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:43:56

actually, and from

what I could tell, so one, it was thoroughly done.

I think there were some good findings that came out of it, and I think it's fair how

how you've interpreted the results

and the areas where you've reprioritised things

are spot on and very difficult to challenge.

The point I wanted to zoom in on,

I was fascinated about this point

that people have got lots of issues around things

that aren't necessarily within our control,

but they're in some really interesting areas,

so water safety, water quality,

and of course highways in its broadest sense.

and it strikes me that these are areas where the ownership of those topics

are fragmented across loads of different agencies.

And I think it's really interesting that the public have spotted that.

And if you think of highways, for instance, so that's largely with KCC,

but if you want to do a highways improvement plan,

that's down to the responsibility of parish and town councils

and to a certain extent KCC can't do anything unless a parish council takes ownership and

does a highways improvement plan there are some things that we can do etc.

Now interestingly in that area we do have the joint transportation board so we're sort

of nudging in the right direction but it struck me that we should put into a plan something

that I think commits our council to taking more of a leadership ownership role in putting

those different parties together and we talk about advocacy and influencing and

whatever but I think we should be a bit a bit bolder so these things happen on

our patch all of us are impacted by the fact that the the ownership is spread

out and fragmented which makes it very difficult to get anything done and I

think we should play more of a leadership role in bringing people

together so highways is at the front of my mind there's some things really

annoying me my ward that I want to get done but I think you know in our

previous meeting when we looked at the water quality issue, I think the same problem is

there and I think we as a council much more should be taking this leadership role and

getting all of the agencies working together rather than pointing fingers at individual

parties and getting cross with them because the reality is the meeting that we had last

time around proved that they can't individually actually solve the problem themselves.

themselves. So that's a bit of a ramble but I think where that might go if we look in the corporate plan

is in that first section around being a listening council and we do talk a bit about being strong partners

with parish and town councils and then we talk about using our influence and voice with other organisations

I just think we could be stronger,

and then when we think about the action plan off the back of it,

I think that's something that we should spend

quite a bit of time thinking about.

Thanks, Councillor Martin.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:47:08

Hopefully we can capture these comments and feed them in.

Councillor Butcher?

Yeah, just to echo a lot of what Councillor Martin said,

Cllr James Butcher - 0:47:20

I think that notion of community leadership is really powerful.

I really like the fact the report doesn't say,

well this is not our business, these things are our business because our residents, I

thought it was a fantastic piece of work, it's kind of not often I read a committee

report and feel uplifted but I did feel uplifted reading it, I just felt really inspired and

so just a big thank you to officers both for the piece of work and the way it's analysed

and written because I think there's so much there, more than we probably got time to chew

on.

I felt a bit less uplifted as I got off into the later bits, some of the sort of quotes

from residents and I think it's a sort of solitary lesson there that we can do all sorts

of fantastic work but how do we make sure that's kind of registering with people, people

seeing the connection between the council tax they pay, the concerns they raise and

some kind of tangible actions.

And I guess yes this next phase of how the objectives of the corporate plan get turned

into actions, I mean it's easy enough to come up with plausible actions, it's whether those

actions have evidence behind them that they'll make a difference.

In a, I think last time we had the community safety session,

I was asking about do we have an evidence base to say that all this

activity has a good chance of making a difference to the things we

wanted to make a difference to.

And then that seemed to me the big question about how do we test

that out and how do we link those actions then to our KPIs so that

it's all kind of integrated.

And just one of the things about residents' concerns about being listened to, my account

is clearly really important and we keep hearing it as yes that's going to be increasingly

central to how residents get things resolved but I think the reality is I've certainly

used it, I raised something on there two months ago and never heard anything afterwards and

I'm not alone in that so there's something about that's not working yet and the KPI we've

is about take -up of my account, which is great because we want to see it spread,

but clearly a much more important KPI is response time on that,

so we can be sure that it's doing the job we want it to do.

And there aren't those comments, or there are fewer of those comments

in the future about people not feeling listened to.

But the main thing is thank you, thank you ever so much,

because that was a really, really important piece of work.

Thanks, Councillor Butcher.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:49:41

Anybody else like to come in on this one?

Councillor WYNN.

Thank you Chair.

Cllr John Wing - 0:49:50

Just really falsifying what's already been said.

I think the KPI's MySpace, my account is very important.

Our residents do talk to me basically, they say something and nothing seems to happen

and then they act the whole of the council and then I'll try to sort something out.

And yeah, it's an excellent piece of work and I agree with Councillor Butcher,

when you get to the end where the outside book party, their comments perhaps brings it down a bit.

But that's true, that's reality. As councillors we all deal with residents, we all know, you know,

we only hear the bad things normally. Nobody links me up and says,

what good job you're doing as a councillor, they ring you up because you've got a problem

and that's fair enough, that's what we do it for.

But yeah, an excellent piece of work and I think we are moving in the right direction,

But as Councillor Butcher says, perhaps just a little bit more work with my account

and making sure it's working correctly would be perfect.

But well done for the piece of work.

Two hands on top, Councillor Jones and then Councillor Elaine Martin.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:50:49

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:50:51

Excellent piece of work and particularly thanks to Jo

for her work with the young people.

Huge amount of work there and we had a really good session in here with the young people

and I'm pleased to see that part of our listening council

is that we are going to find new ways to engage,

particularly with young people.

So, I'm excited that that's on the plan, so thank you.

Councillor Elaine Martin.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:51:16

Cllr Elaine Martin - 0:51:18

Thank you. I just want to echo what everyone else has said.

It's a really good piece of work,

and it's an excellent piece of work.

Council, what she said about the difference

between the positivity of the Council report

and then the negative aspect of the actual people's comments.

I just wondered if anyone had any sort of reflection on why that might be the case.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:51:49

Anyone like to pick that up? Ewan?

Mr Ewan Green - 0:51:55

Thank you. If I can make an opening comment, I think Jo will have some thoughts as well.

I think what I would say about bringing it to a consultant is that

All the feedback is important.

What you might be seeing is negative.

I think we are treating these points for learning and how to improve.

I take your point about how it looks in the report, how we feedback,

but actually I think they are all really good points that we will take on board.

Some of the points you are raising, Councillor Butch, about my account, for example.

That's been raised before, previously by some members as well.

If you've got a specific, I'm happy to take it outside of the meeting with you,

But what I would say to you, members, that example plus some other examples of feedback,

where there are things that we don't need a corporate plan, action plan to make a difference,

we can take that action and feedback to services right now and ask them to make a change or

consider it. It's what we're doing. So some of the feedback which is areas for improvement

will be doing so right now without having to feed it back in a corporate plan.

Certainly I know that when we think about our customer access strategy, for example, that we're refreshing,

that will absolutely consider response times, how our systems are engaging and feeding back to residents

when they have these issues via my account or reported functions as well.

So there's a lot in this that we are really pleased to receive in terms of feedback and we'll take forward.

I'm hoping that you will answer that.

Yes, and Jo?

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:53:28

I just wanted to say that I think the positivity in the report

comes from the fact that people were happy to talk to us and engage with us.

Previously, when we've done these kinds of consultations,

we don't get that level of engagement.

So there's hope where people are willing to converse with us.

Of course, a lot of the issues that they raise

are things that are important to them and people will generally raise

that they're not happy about in these kinds of contexts

much more than the things that they are.

We did try to eke out of people

some of the things that they felt were good about the district,

which sometimes is not a question that's asked in research,

but we did try to get some of that from them.

But top of mind for most people is what they're not happy about.

But we are pleased as officers that they're telling us

because it gives us a sense of what to do next.

I suppose that's where the positivity comes from, from my perspective.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:54:24

And Jo, do you want to just say a little bit in terms of the engagement

with young people that Councillor Jones referred to?

This committee has talked before about structures

like a youth council for the future,

so do you want to just say a little bit about what young people said?

Thanks.

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:54:42

So just on the young people perspective,

You guys were promised that we would go and talk to schools and young people

about the possibility of a youth forum.

We initially said in the format of a survey,

we actually tied that work in with the public consultation for the corporate plan.

We didn't survey them, we spoke to them and asked them when they were there

about their thoughts on a youth forum.

So we spoke to four different schools locally,

which was a diverse range of the secondary schools locally,

and about 40 pupils from different schools.

And actually not just schools,

we spoke to the family hub in Folkestone,

where some of the young people are in employment,

because we don't want to make it exclusive to people who are in education.

They were resoundingly positive about the concept of a youth forum

and schools were saying that they would be willing to release students

for two or possibly three sessions per academic year.

They felt it was important, back to Councillor Scotland's point around agency,

in order to give young people voice.

In fact, when the young people came in to the council,

So we had two young people, well, two youth focus groups.

One was in person and one was online.

And the teachers said that it was a magical experience for the students coming in

and listening to the counsellors speak and engaging with them.

And the pupils themselves said that they felt the council was more approachable

as a result of having had that experience.

So it's a very timely question,

because today I went to our corporate leadership team

with a proposal for what we might do going forwards.

And they were enthusiastic about the idea of having, in 2025,

having two sessions whereby perhaps we get the same sets of pupils,

or young people, there might not be in education, as I said,

coming along to two half -day sessions.

The first one, similar to what we did, which was more of an open forum,

but we could actually feed back the results

of the corporate plan consultation to them.

And then the second session would be more targeted.

So the other piece of work that I've been doing

is talking internally to officers

about how they might use young people's opinions in their work.

And we found that particularly the housing team

are very keen to hear young people's opinions

about housing needs going forwards.

The community teams actually have a duty to take the opinions of young people

to feed into their strategies.

Climate change, as we mentioned earlier,

is an area that young people are keen to talk about

and one that we want their opinions on.

So we thought perhaps the second forum would be focused around theme areas

where we as a council have a little bit more ability to act

and young people are interested to feed their opinions in

so we could get them to input specifically on those areas.

The other thing that our Chief Exec today said that she felt was important

was to offer young people who show an interest in local government

the opportunity to talk to us about careers in local government.

We might have an additional third meeting,

which may be optional for those who are interested

in a career in local government and engaging us in that way.

And so I think we have the ability to deliver that within our resource at the moment.

Anything further, we might have to look at what we do.

But I think in the first year, we perhaps go with something like that.

We'll have to take a report to Council, I think, about it,

which I started to put together after the meeting today.

But I think we can do a lot with the resource that we've got,

or a decent amount,

and we can also look to build on that in the future.

As we work with young people, we can co -create with them

what they would like to do and how they would like to engage with us.

So that's the thinking at the moment.

Thanks very much for that, Jo.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:59:11

Would anyone like to make any comments in relation to that?

I appreciate people only just hearing that now.

Councillor Butcher?

The general thing about the human connection

Cllr James Butcher - 0:59:25

that you were making through this, whether that is with young people

or is that comment about canvases,

noting the number of lonely people they spoke to in the district,

which really gave me pause for thought when I read that.

So I mean that in itself feels useful for that to be highlighted,

but just the power of a human conversation

as well as all the questioning and all that feels very powerful.

Yes, and that was noted in the working group

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:59:51

and I think one of the amendments that was made to the slides is to reflect that experience

of the canvases.

Okay, well, if there aren't any other comments, then I think the Committee's been very appreciative

of the work that's been done, so thank you to the officers.

We'll just put the recommendations to the meeting.

So to receive a note, the summary of consultation responses and the results of the focus groups,

and to note the working group's recommended updates

to the new corporate plan themes and guiding principles

and to provide comments on the amended version

which we've done during the course of the meeting.

So can I see a proposer for those?

Councillor Elaine Martin and a seconder?

Councillor Butcher?

All those in agreement?

Thank you, that's unanimous.

Thank you very much.

Okay we're going to move on then to the update

on the Councillor's climate change and ecological

emergency work and again I think Adrian's going to introduce this for us.

Adrian Tofts - 1:00:52

And yes thank you so this is in response to items that were on the work plan for this

committee so the committee asks for an update on the consultation that was done on our draft

district wide carbon plan.

They asked for an update on the Sustainable Futures Forum.

They also asked for an update on the work that the housing team is doing, insulating

our social homes.

To outline those three areas briefly, firstly the report deals with the District by Carbon

Plan.

We gave some updates to the committee in April and June last year.

We took the consultation version to Cabinet in July

and we ran the consultation from November to December last year.

We used a variety of consultation methods,

so that included drop -in events, sessions with schools,

and there was an online questionnaire

and also a targeted questionnaire to households throughout the district.

We had 460 people and organisations respond.

In terms of individual comments,

we had more than 2 ,500 individual comments.

We provided a summary of the consultation in the report

and also in Appendix 2.

You can see in there that there are some sceptical voices

questioning whether climate change is happening

and if it is, what we can do about it.

But I think as you can see from the report,

the large majority of people supported the plan

and the ambitions it sets out

and were willing to get involved, really.

People felt that perhaps the 2030 target

for a net zero district was too ambitious

and we should look at maybe 2040 or 2050.

But I think there was a good level of support

The next steps will be to finalise the plan

and bring an amended version back to members for approval.

Then we can get going with groups to start to put this into practice.

My colleague James is going to speak later on the Green Grants programme,

which is one way we could do that.

The committee secondly asked for an update on the Sustainable Futures Forum.

When we last updated the committee in April last year,

we were building up to an event at the Burlington Hotel,

but that hadn't yet happened.

So, what we've done in the report is to update you on that event.

It was a very well -attended event and we got lots of positive feedback from it.

And Appendix 3 in the report is an impact report on that event.

Given the success, we're looking to continue it

and we're looking to procure it over a number of years.

In the meantime, before we've got that in place,

we've held a couple of mini -events.

Those have happened quite recently,

so we didn't have the opportunity to write those up in the report,

given the deadlines for the report.

The last one happened Thursday of last week,

and we can update you on that if you would like.

Lastly, the committee asked for an update on the Council's energy efficiency work

on the Council housing stock.

Joel Wyatt, the retrofit manager, is here,

who can answer questions on that particular aspect.

The report summarises what was done through Wave 1

of the Government's Social Housing Decarbonisation Fund,

which was matched with the council's own funding.

That tackled 125 of the council's poorest performing homes

and that included houses, bungalows and flats.

As you can see in the report, there were a range of measures introduced,

including improvements to ventilation, insulation,

the installation of air source heat pumps,

solar panels and new windows and doors.

You can see that we are expecting energy consumption to halve

and also we are expecting to see a halving of carbon emissions from those homes.

Joel and his team were very successful in Wave 1

and that was recognised with an award of excellence in asset management

at the Kent Housing Group Excellence Awards

in September this year.

Joel's continuing with Wave 2 of the fund,

which is underway on a further 300 houses,

and that's expected to be completed

by September next year.

So that kind of outlines the three broad aspects

that the committee asks for information on,

and happy to answer questions.

Thank you.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:06:18

Thanks, Adrian, and thanks, Joel, for coming along to the meeting to answer questions this

evening.

Councillor Scoffyn, did you want to say anything on this before I open it up?

Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 1:06:30

It covers three very different activities, and that is probably the nature of this particular

agenda which needs to be approached in lots of different ways.

So there is no one silver bullet, there is no one mega action if we had the power to

which would make the difference.

It's lots of multiple approaches,

and I think this report is a really

excellent example of the different

ways in which you can go about it.

Thank you, OK, I'll open it up to the

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:06:56

committee for any comments or thoughts.

Councilor Butcher.

And it was just a couple of

areas I want to pick up on.

Cllr James Butcher - 1:07:08

As we've just been talking about the

incident councils housing stock,

which has seen such fantastic achievements.

I suppose congratulations to Joel both for the work and the award.

It's really, really encouraging to see this

and just the quality of the work done.

I just had a question about,

because we've got a bit about having carbon dioxide emissions,

but whether we're able to track what the savings are to residents,

because I guess that's part of the way of promoting this kind of thing

is to see that taking action on climate can also help people with their costs.

I just wanted to check that.

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:07:45

Yeah, it's a very difficult raw data to get hold of.

There's a number of issues that we're faced in terms of trying to track that cost saving

element which is important and is one of the KPIs for the project.

There's a couple of barriers, obviously this is subject to obtaining the raw data from

our residents which can be tricky at times particularly through not all of them

having direct debits, the prepayment meters so again record -keeping is a

difficulty it also comes down to potential tariffs probably the largest

difficulty that we faced over the course of wave one was actually the volatility

in the energy market and although we were able to reduce significantly energy

consumption, the prices counteracted that.

So although energy consumption may have reduced pricing,

may have actually increased.

So although we've installed a number of energy saving

measures and changing some heating sources and fuel types,

actually the reality that our residents are faced with

is that costs have actually increased.

So it's a piece of work that we weren't really

able to sort of engage with too much because

of the inaccuracies and the number of variables

that we would face.

So although we can, with a high degree of confidence,

say that we are saving our residents money to track that

because of the volatility and the price changes,

it's one that's very difficult for us to report on.

Lovely, thank you.

But I guess even if prices have gone up,

Cllr James Butcher - 1:09:23

we could say residents would have had to have paid more

but for the action that you and your team have taken.

Yes, absolutely. We would be able to take an initial marker point and

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:09:35

say that if we

were to go based on say 2022 prices then we would ultimately have significant cost savings,

yes.

Thank you. I've got a, can I go on, Carol?

Please do.

Cllr James Butcher - 1:09:55

Yes, so this is about the risks on page 140 of the pack.

And I suppose it links to what Councillor Hill was saying earlier,

so we've got those risks laid out.

And I think in previous forums,

the question has been raised about the corporate risk register.

Because unless things have changed,

I think what we've got in there is still the risk is described

as the risk of kind of not doing the things we said we would do,

rather than what are the risks that we need to be adapting to

and preparing for, and would it make sense for that to appear

in the corporate risk register?

Adrian Tofts - 1:10:42

Yes, I'm not closely involved in the corporate risk register any more,

but what we tried to do with that was to relate the risks very much

to Council as an organisation and its operations.

What we try to do in the district -wide carbon plan is look a bit wider.

So the risks we've identified are more to do with residents.

So we've got things like impacts on farming and food production,

damage to buildings and transport

and impacts on people's health and wellbeing.

and these kind of broader risks.

So it was what we were trying to do in this,

is to look a bit wider.

I was sort of uncertain about the corporate risk register.

I guess you could say they're a risk to the council's budget

Cllr James Butcher - 1:11:33

if we get large unexpected damage to infrastructure

as we've seen with the land slips and so on.

I guess it just feels strange that we don't have that...

central to our corporate risk register.

Thanks, Councillor Butcher.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:11:55

Councillor Martin.

Did you want to come in on that point, Councillor Scotland?

Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 1:12:02

Just a comment on Councillor Butcher's point.

I did talk with Amandit about the corporate risk register

and the way in which climate change could feature in it.

That was a conversation I had about six months ago.

So it's probably in the system as it were,

but maybe the questions you've been asking,

there's a good moment to come back to that agenda,

which I know Amadee is aware of.

OK, thank you. Councillor Martin?

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:12:29

Cllr Elaine Martin - 1:12:32

Just a sort of minor little query, really.

On page 144 in section...

the residential table of 5 .1,

It says, incorporating climate change into local plans

to ensure sustainable new developments with minimal environmental impact.

That's listed as C, which says,

is action not in control of the District Council?

I just wondered why that was. It kind of seemed a little bit out of sync.

Yes, no.

Adrian Tofts - 1:13:10

So I think there must be an error, to be honest.

So we are reviewing the local plan at the moment.

And we're waiting on new legislation

from government, which is due to be introduced next year.

So yes, we can and we will try for more ambitious policies

as part of the new local plan.

But we do have to take that through a process

independent examination with planning inspectors.

So, yeah, but no, we can certainly look at amending that reference.

Well spotted, Councillor Martin.

Cllr Elaine Martin - 1:13:48

On the same sort of subject, there was nothing in section 7, 8 and 9.

They were all blank, they're not there.

Adrian Tofts - 1:14:00

And yet the purpose was always, through the consultation,

to try and identify, try and get a better picture

of what's happening in the district

in terms of groups and actions.

And we said that we would use the consultation

to draw together those actions

of what's already happening out there

and see where we could add to it.

So it was always intended that we would add those chapters

after the consultation based on that knowledge.

and then hopefully we can set some ambitious but deliverable actions

that we can then take forward.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:14:41

Any other contributions? Councillor Martin.

Thank you. Obviously, as just covered,

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:14:48

there are some aspects we've got direct influence over

and it's possible to come up with some very tangible measureables

in terms of what success looks like.

I was just wondering for things like the Sustainable Futures Forum,

how do we measure the success of that?

It's quite clear to me that it was very well received,

it got a lot of engagement across the district,

which is absolutely something to be applauded.

But are we also looking for more tangible outcomes

from that activity and that expense?

James, do you want to come in?

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:15:20

Yeah, absolutely.

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:15:26

I think in terms of numbers, you know, turn out to the events is, you know, a quick count

of how many people are there.

But I'm interested in tracking down case studies and collaborative efforts that come out of it.

So I've already tracked down three or four.

So when one group has met another group and they've come up with a project together

or lent each other their expertise or things like that, I'm trying to capture more of that.

But also we're trying to harness the, you know, the knowledge within these groups

and get them running workshops and teaching it back to the other members.

So I think we can collect outcomes like that as well

to show that it's perpetual and the interest and the will to spread it

is already in the community there.

So I'll be the one collecting all those stories

and trying to show that it's happening.

Thank you.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:16:16

I'll take Councillor McConville first and then come back to you,

Councillor Butcher.

Thanks, Janet.

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:16:26

Just for yourself, James, I just had a quick look.

There is something on the corporate risk register

that's not quite worded possibly in the best way,

but failure to achieve carbon neutral by 2030 is on the risk register,

whether it's a case of expanding that out

to whichever, however it reads,

but it is there in some sort of form that links to this.

Just looking through the...

Go to the consultation first on the plan.

One thing that...

A lot of it was... Some of it was a bit ambiguous.

Some people were heavily for four something

and then they were a similar sort of question,

the figures didn't quite match.

I don't know whether that's just the wording of the questions

or you never know why people say yes to one thing and no to another.

In section three, where it says about the plan, question one,

what is your overall view of the district -wide carbon plan?

116, so about a quarter,

said I support some of the actions but not the others.

It would be really interesting to know if there was any more information taken from that,

or if we can gather some more information from that

as to what actions some people wouldn't support

and why they wouldn't support them and do some of the actions.

I know some of them are really ambitious and high level,

but it would be nice to know which ones the public weren't really ready to support in that question.

I don't know if we've got any behind the scenes written responses or anything

that might give us some insight into that.

Yes, thank you.

We did have... A lot of the questions had text boxes

where people could write in further comments.

Adrian Tofts - 1:18:29

We did have more than 2 ,500 of those.

My poor colleague James is playing through them at the moment.

But from memory there were some comments around,

I would like to do more but I feel like I can't afford it

or I'm worried about energy bills and these kinds of things

is what I recall from that question.

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:19:02

And then just quickly on the insulation,

the decarbonising work, I mean excellent work,

It's great we're able to continue that into the waves.

I was reading in the news over the last few days,

there's been all these stories of banks and mortgage lenders

not lending money for houses that have got some form of not very good

loft insulation, some sort of spray foam insulation.

Is there anything that's going on with it?

They said it's about a quarter of a million houses that they're aware of so far.

So is any of that linked to any of the work that we've done or are we using a completely different type of thing just to put people at ease?

Yeah absolutely.

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:19:47

No, 100 % categorically we're not engaging any form of spray foam insulation in any of our properties.

All of our insulation works are fully accredited, non -ambiguous, tried and tested and when it comes to the loft insulation in particular

it is the standard form of rolled rockwall mineral fibre insulation that we use. Similarly

the captive wool insulation we're moving towards a polystyrene beaded product, again more beneficial

in terms of combating any sort of ingress through deteriorating fabrics and more robust

in terms of our coastal position as well. So all spray foam insulation has been totally

avoided for the purposes of this project.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:20:37

A quick observation on page 135 of the pathway talks about the five

Cllr James Butcher - 1:20:45

pillars of focus where

emissions are coming from across the district.

Road transport 34 % so I suppose it was just to connect to what Councillor Scoffin was

saying earlier about the potential for that road to rail project.

That's a big chunk of our emissions

that we're going to want to find some way to tackle.

Thank you.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:21:07

Just from me, in terms of the next steps,

I appreciate there's been a hiatus

in terms of being able to take some of this work forward

and that you've got a lot of comments to look at and go through.

What's the timeframe do you anticipate

in terms of being able to bring something back

and also taking on board the comments that people have made,

some of the things that you've talked about there,

in terms of creating a climate in which people are able

to take part in this and engage,

so that it's something that we can take forward together with residents.

Adrian Tofts - 1:21:49

I think we're nearly there.

James is playing for the comments.

I think we should be in a position to draft the final chapters of the plan

and respond to everybody's comments

and take it back through committee process early in the new year.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:22:11

Thank you and thanks for the work you're doing on it.

If there are no more comments,

we just have to note the report that's in front of us.

So can I have a proposer to note the report?

Councillor Jones, think you were just ahead?

Are you happy to second?

Councillor McConville, thanks.

All those in agreement?

Thank you very much.

Okay, thank you.

So we're moving on to the last item in front of us this evening,

8 Green Grant Programme

which is the Green Grant Programme,

and there was a supplementary paper which councillors should have in front of them as well.

I just wanted to flag that up to people.

So, James.

Thank you.

So the report is proposing a new Green Grant Programme

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:22:48

aimed at fostering community engagement

and enabling sustainable practices throughout the district.

The new grant program will invite local groups,

businesses and organizations such as town and parish councils

to take the lead in carbon reduction efforts

by providing financial support

for a variety of environmental focused projects.

With a budget of 250 ,000 allocated over 2025 to 2027

and with up to 80 % of the project costs covered by the grant,

the program will build upon the success of the previous Green Business Grant

scheme that Council held and expand the eligibility to a broader range of stakeholders and on

a wider range of grant categories.

So quickly to summarize, these are a new climate action micro -grant category.

These are smaller grants that are aimed to lower the barriers of entry for smaller groups

and spread funding across a wider range of smaller projects such as community workshops,

eco -clubs and small -scale energy efficiency improvements.

The second category is social and community grants.

These are aimed to raise awareness and build resilience in the community.

Examples include sustainability hubs.

The third grant category are small business community group,

charity, town and parish premises grants.

So this is similar to the rural fund and it's to support local organizations implement

environmental and energy reduction, energy saving improvements to their facilities

such as solar PV and insulation.

And then finally, the fourth one is rewilding tree planting

and wildflower meadow grants.

So this is a grant category aimed to support projects,

enhance biodiversity, and improve natural habitat.

Building on the Carbon Innovation Lab

and the ongoing Sustainable Future Forum events,

they have shown that there's an active and passionate community

working on sustainability projects across the district.

and the council is in a great position to enable this community

by financing them and support ultimately an increase in climate resilience,

promoting biodiversity and lower the district's carbon footprint

in line with the council's climate declaration.

Happy to answer any more questions.

Thank you.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:25:01

Councillor Scoville, did you want to say anything on this one?

Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 1:25:08

I'm just delighted to see it coming, that it's taking shape

and I'll listen to the conversation with interest

and come in if there's any points, if I may.

Thanks. I saw hands go up immediately.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:25:15

Councillor McConville then, Councillor Jones.

Thank you, Chair.

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:25:21

Yeah, no, very happy to see this sort of continue in its new sort of form.

I think the previous iteration's done some very good work already,

you know, with quite limited resources.

So I think with some bigger resources,

we should see some really good changes

and really helping us to achieve what we wanted to do

In the last item we just spoke of, I do have a slight issue with 3 .8.

So under the current scheme, which I think works really well, the ward councillors are

involved in discussing that decision and they have a role to play.

So I'd hate to see us lose that, even as we move to a committee system.

I'm quite happy for the chairs of the two committees,

or the chair and vice chair of the climate committee

to lead on it,

but I think ward members should still be involved in that process

moving forward.

So hopefully that'll be something that we can get looked at

before it goes to cabinet.

Hopefully June will back me up on that one.

Yes, I thought the same myself.

Councillor Jones.

I'm just really delighted to see this.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:26:40

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:26:41

This is a great move forward, a great use of this money.

I'm struggling to find the date when this is going to start

and then how it's going to be advertised amongst the district.

So, yes, we're looking to run it in phases.

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:26:55

So I think we'll start as soon as possible in the new year

after the cabinet report's gone through

and if it's been approved.

I think it will take at least two months worth of communications

to go out to the parishes and make sure this is well known.

And I was looking to set up events with previous grant

recipients to come and talk about how they got the grant

and what they implemented to hopefully inspire that

and build that into the Sustainable Future Forum

as well so that we can use it as a teaching

and attract a wider audience.

So I think at the earliest, we're

at March, April in terms of the first deadline because we need to give time to let it sink

in and then everyone to have their questions and then the applications to come in.

And if we don't spend all of that money in the first wave, we'll plan secondary and third

waves and those are to be continued.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:27:52

Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 1:27:56

Was it on that point, Councillor S

help local organisations and groups do things,

but there is a responsibility, as it were, for a bit of payback,

and that payback can take lots of different forms,

but the Sustainable Futures Forum, which is not yet the future,

how that evolves, we're not quite certain,

but that could well be the vehicle through which the payback could be channelled,

so that it isn't a one -off and people disappear over the horizon

and say, thank you very much, by now I've finished.

it's part of a more systematic way of building community resilience.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:28:40

I think I saw another hand but I'm not sure whose it was.

Was it you, Councillor Butcher? Thanks.

Yeah, great to see this come to us. Really exciting.

Cllr James Butcher - 1:28:49

And just wondered about the name, Green Grant,

whether we can add community in there somewhere.

I notice in the other case studies there's the word...

It would be nice to see the emphasis on community.

I may have missed this in here but could you outline the way the payments work?

I think with ward grants people apply, get a payment and off they go.

Other systems you need to have made the expenditure and then you get reimbursed.

How is this going to work?

I need to refer to the economic development team because I wasn't involved with the previous

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:29:26

I don't know, but yes, I think it's after the fact.

So I think we'll look at potentially cutting up the grant

so that they can get started,

but I believe we hand over the money after we've seen the beginning of the project.

So we can phase that for the recipients if it's easier for them.

I'm seeing lots of nodding, so...

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:29:45

Ian?

Yeah, that's a very good response.

Mr Ewan Green - 1:29:51

Our grants are always paid in a few years.

It's one of the safeguards and one of the rules in financial regs.

So I think what Jane has outlined there

and being able to phase the grant

so we can pay the instalments

on receipt of the evidence of the activity

would be a good halfway house to help

and help groups come forward with propositions.

And I guess there may be circumstances

where people are struggling to find the money.

Cllr James Butcher - 1:30:21

They haven't got a lot in the bank accounts.

So I don't know whether it's simple we could give to whether it's a school or something

where that's quite tricky for them to make the expenditure first without the grant.

So I'm not looking for an answer now but just perhaps consideration could be given to that.

Okay.

Any other comments?

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:30:41

Nope.

Okay.

Well, we've got the recommendations in front of us.

So to note the establishment of the Folkstone and Hyde Green Grant Program.

I think it's a keenness to see the word community arrive into that and approve the proposed

process and criteria for providing grants to local community groups and businesses as

set out below, to note the proposed utilisation of 250 ,000 to operate the Folks from the High

Green grant programme and to note the proposed establishment of a decision panel to make

decisions on grant applications as set out in paragraph 3 .8.

And I think the point that Councillor McConville has made is that we would want that panel

include ward member representation.

Is that agreeable to everybody yet?

I can see lots of nods.

OK, if I could put those recommendations

and if there can be a proposal.

Thanks, Council McConville and a seconder.

Councilor Butcher all those in agreement.

Thank you very much.

That's unanimous and that concludes

our meeting for this evening.

Thank you very much.

We welcome your comments

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Overview and Scrutiny Committee - Tuesday 19 November 2024, 6:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Overview and Scrutiny CommitteeTuesday, 19th November 2024 at 6:00pm

Agenda

Slides

Transcript

Map

Resources

Twitter

Forums

Speakers

Feedback

Votes

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:05

1 Apologies for Absence

Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:00:43

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:45

2 Declarations of Interest

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:52

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:00:58

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:01:00

3 Minutes

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:03:13

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:03:53

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:04:25

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:04:46

4 Minutes of the Finance and Performance Sub-Committee

5 Cabinet Member updates

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:05:01

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:05:18

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:13:50

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:14:34

Cllr James Butcher - 0:14:45

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:15:25

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:16:10

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:16:11

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:16:33

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:16:38

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:17:25

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:17:28

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:17:37

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:18:27

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:19:55

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:20:18

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:20:34

Mr Ewan Green - 0:20:37

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:21:12

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:21:18

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:22:49

Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:22:53

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:24:10

Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:24:33

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:25:43

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:25:53

Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:27:11

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:27:57

Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:28:35

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:29:02

Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:29:07

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:34:31

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:34:44

Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:36:26

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:37:26

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:37:33

Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:38:00

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:38:03

6 Corporate Plan - Consultation Responses

Adrian Tofts - 0:38:31

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:43:00

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:43:56

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:47:08

Cllr James Butcher - 0:47:20

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:49:41

Cllr John Wing - 0:49:50

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:50:49

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:50:51

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:51:16

Cllr Elaine Martin - 0:51:18

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:51:49

Mr Ewan Green - 0:51:55

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:53:28

Overview and Scrutiny Committee
Tuesday, 19th November 2024 at 6:00pm