Overview and Scrutiny Committee - Tuesday 28 May 2024, 6:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Overview and Scrutiny Committee
Tuesday, 28th May 2024 at 6:00pm 

Agenda

Slides

Transcript

Map

Resources

Forums

Speakers

Votes

 

Welcome to Folkestone and Hythe District Council's Webcast Player.

 

UPDATE - PLEASE NOTE, MEETINGS OF THE JOINT TRANSPORTATION BOARD AND FOLKESTONE AND HYTHE DISTRICT AND PARISH COUNCILS' JOINT COMMITTEE WILL BE STREAMED LIVE TO YOUTUBE AT: bit.ly/YouTubeMeetings. 


The webcast should start automatically for you, and you can jump to specific points of interest within the meeting by selecting the agenda point or the speaker that you are interested in, simply by clicking the tabs above this message. You can also view any presentations used in the meeting by clicking the presentations tab. We hope you find the webcast interesting and informative.

 

Please note, although officers can be heard when they are speaking at meetings, they will not be filmed.

 

At the conclusion of a meeting, the webcast can take time to 'archive'.  You will not be able to view the webcast until the archiving process is complete.  This is usually within 24 hours of the meeting.

Share this agenda point
  1. Mr Jake Hamilton
  2. Cllr Laura Davison
  3. Cllr Elaine Martin
  4. Cllr Laura Davison
  5. Cllr Laura Davison
  6. Cllr Laura Davison
Share this agenda point
Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Laura Davison
  2. Mr Jake Hamilton
  3. Cllr Laura Davison
  4. Cllr John Wing
  5. Cllr James Butcher
  6. Councillor Tony Hills
  7. Cllr Laura Davison
Share this agenda point
Share this agenda point
Share this agenda point
Share this agenda point
  1. Mr Rod Lean
  2. Mr Rod Lean
  3. Cllr Laura Davison
  4. Cllr Belinda Walker
  5. Mr Rod Lean
  6. Cllr Laura Davison
  7. Cllr Elaine Martin
  8. Mr Rod Lean
  9. Cllr Laura Davison
  10. Cllr John Wing
  11. Mr Rod Lean
  12. Cllr Laura Davison
  13. Cllr Alan Martin
  14. Mr Rod Lean
  15. Cllr Laura Davison
  16. Mr Rod Lean
  17. Cllr Laura Davison
  18. Mr Rod Lean
  19. Cllr Laura Davison
  20. Councillor Tony Hills
  21. Cllr Laura Davison
  22. Mr Rod Lean
  23. Cllr Laura Davison
  24. Cllr Belinda Walker
  25. Mr Rod Lean
  26. Cllr Laura Davison
  27. Cllr Bridget Chapman
  28. Mr Rod Lean
  29. Cllr Laura Davison
  30. Cllr Anita Jones
  31. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  32. Cllr Anita Jones
  33. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  34. Cllr Laura Davison
  35. Cllr Bridget Chapman
  36. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  37. Cllr Laura Davison
  38. Cllr James Butcher
  39. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  40. Cllr Laura Davison
  41. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  42. Cllr Laura Davison
Share this agenda point
  1. Mr Ola Owolabi
  2. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  3. Cllr Laura Davison
  4. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  5. Mr Ola Owolabi
  6. Cllr Laura Davison
  7. Mr Ola Owolabi
  8. Cllr Laura Davison
  9. Cllr Bridget Chapman
  10. Cllr Laura Davison
  11. Mr Ola Owolabi
  12. Cllr Laura Davison
  13. Cllr Alan Martin
  14. Cllr Bridget Chapman
  15. Mr Ola Owolabi
  16. Cllr Laura Davison
  17. Cllr James Butcher
  18. Mr Ola Owolabi
  19. Cllr James Butcher
  20. Mr Ola Owolabi
  21. Cllr James Butcher
  22. Mr Ola Owolabi
  23. Cllr James Butcher
  24. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  25. Cllr James Butcher
  26. Cllr Laura Davison
  27. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  28. Cllr Laura Davison
  29. Cllr Belinda Walker
  30. Mr Ola Owolabi
  31. Cllr Laura Davison
  32. Councillor Tony Hills
  33. Cllr Laura Davison
  34. Cllr Alan Martin
  35. Cllr Laura Davison
  36. Webcast Finished

Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:00:09
Even Members and welcome to the first overview and scrutiny meeting for this municipal year we'll move on to the first item for the appointment of Chair we have any nominations
I'd like to nominate Councillor Laura Davison for their own thank you and do we have any second is a lot to second it thank you thank you and I have a show of hands
perfect thank you I'll hand over to you Laura
thank you very much everybody nice to see you all and we're going to
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:01:10
move on to a second item which is the appointment of the vice-chair so are their nominations please
Cllr Elaine Martin - 0:01:18
I'd like to point the Councillor John way
thank you Councillor Martin and a seconder
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:01:25
I think Councillor Chapman and Councillor Butcher both had their hands
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:01:31
up at the same time there so I'll I'll leave her colleagues to determine which should which of them was quickest and all in favour please
that is unanimous thank you that's come up Councillor wing

2 Appointment of Vice-Chair

1 Appointment of Chair

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:01:44
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:02:16
nice to have you as the Vice Chair Councillor wing for this forthcoming municipal year going to read the notice just so that we've done that for the record so formally good evening and welcome to the meeting of the overview and scrutiny committee this meeting will be webcast live to the internet for those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed you'll need to leave the chamber for members officers and others speaking at the meeting it's important that the microphones are used so viewers on the webcast and others in the room may here you would anyone with a mobile phone please switch it to silent mode as they can be distracting like to remind Members that although we all have strong opinions on matters under consideration supported to treat members officers and public speakers with respect it's going to be ones item 3 apologies for absence there any apologies thank you Chair
Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:03:01
we have one apology from Councillor McConville Councillor Linda Walker will be substituted
thank you welcome Councillor Walker and other any direct federations
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:03:11
of interest from the Committee Councillor wing
thank you Chair errm that the you direct of opportune that
Cllr John Wing - 0:03:18
as literature and sign for me
Cllr James Butcher - 0:03:22
Councillor health justly Casey comes up Chairman I'm a member Kent
Councillor Tony Hills - 0:03:29
County Council for thank you Chair
not Chairman thank you
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:03:39
OK thank you noted Councillor Hills and moving on to Item 5 the minutes on pages 5 to 10 of your agenda we need to approve these as a correct record of our last meeting Councillor Cook I know you wouldn't have been at the meeting but for other colleagues are we happy to accept those as a correct record and signals could have a proposer
Councillor butcher and a seconder Councillor Chapman and all agreed agreed thank you

3 Apologies for Absence

4 Declarations of Interest

5 Minutes

6 Appointment of members and election of Chair to the Finance and Performance Scrutiny Sub-Committee

item 6 is the appointment of members and the election of the Chair to the Finance and performance scrutiny sub-committee and we've had the following nominations for the Committee Councillor Alan Martin Councillor John wing Councillor James Butcher Council economy Conville and Councillor Laura Davison and my understanding is that Councillor McConville is willing to continue as the Chair of the Sub-Committee for the forthcoming year so if members of the committee are content will take that as one item to agree the members of the Committee and the appointment of the chair so could I have a proposer for that
Councillor Martin thank you and a seconder Councillor Hills and all those in favour

7 FOLCA project update

that's great that's agreed thank you very much indeed OK that's the administrative items in front of us so we're going to move on to our first substantive item of the evening, which is an update on the Folca project from a Chief Officer Rodley.
Thank you Chair.
Mr Rod Lean - 0:05:18
Great thank you, we will what's going to give you a bit of an update on Foca folk projects concentrating on the medical centre in Foca 1 and in some of the roof?
Sorry apologies.
I'm not sure if that's connected to the
Give them away.
apologies about that, certainly corporate mishap, the no worry start again so.
you know, I'm aiming to talk about the focus one project and the medical centre in particular, and we're going to accept a bit of an overview really over cabinet paper that's going to Cabinet in June, so and I understand that you've had a meeting about the presentation and you made some points so I'll try and address those points as I go through but if I do forget any as I go through them please do ask at the end when we get on to the questions.
Okay, it's back on.
Mr Rod Lean - 0:06:57
not doing very well a return to current technology, okay, so the backgrounds, then especially around the medical centre, was bought to cabinets in.
2021, with a view of a medical centre going into what we deem as focal 1, which is the Edwardian part of Folca, the brick built part of it.
And the the aim was that we were going to take forward that proposition with the understanding that we'd agree, heads of terms would get a capital receipt, and we would try and align that to the development of folk to within that report it was on point 7 there on the screen, it was noted that if there is any substantial change to the proposal that we would bring it back to Cabinet, which is what were we're doing now,
so that's kind of what we're doing now, so going onto a focal one, then the medical centre where we are, you will see that the button medical centre is no longer viable for a focal one and that's as a result of a few reasons, one of which was the original agreed floor space with the medical provision and I see B as in their work they were trying to agree the floor space was 3,000 square metres as they went through that process of scrutinising that space that eventually was agreed at a much lower floorplates Circus or 2000 square metres which obviously reduced substantially the viability in terms of
Addressing the ICB design, Sandilands and hds design standards within the building.
and that they're quite high, and in order to meet those standards they would have to have demolished put in planning and then demolish Foca 1, which was going to be costly and as a result of that, so changing the in the footplate and also the wider economic situation in terms of the higher interest rates and build costs as well. Over the last few years that, where he has put paid to that viability, we're not privy. I know that was one of the questions you also were not privy to the the detail of that, as you will appreciate that a commercially sensitive area between ICB and the GP practices and their developer. So we we we didn't get up, that was the rationale they gave to us so they then asked us to
Look at potentially folk too, as as an alternative, so part of the Cabinet report is going in June, really is just to formalise that isn't it's it's an unviable focal, one with with Cabinet members, and to seek approval to explore option for the medical centre to go into Foca to because they believe that the construction costs will be a lot less because they do not have to demolish Folkard to.
The actual construction of that particular building as well is a bit more sympathetic in terms of the NHS design standards it's a much more square and uniform plan as opposed to the Edwardian building, which was quite quite a tricky building in terms of levels and size of of rooms, et cetera, so they wanted so ask us permission to explore that and just rerun their figures to see whether there was any chance that that could potentially be viable in folk to so.
that's again what we're seeking approval for in in the cabinet paper
And then when, in terms of focal one, one of the issues were focal, one is that we always deemed that to be a medical centre, and that was always the the way and the direction of travel in terms of that building as a result of that there was no alternative, a plan B for that building and therefore we need to come back to Cabinet to basically look at the options for that building in terms of what we can do.
just to note that the the building itself, we had a condition survey carried out by a consultant called pilings, and that came back at 3.00.8000000 pounds in terms of bringing the building back to a sort of shelling core ready for fit out, so quite a substantial cost as as you'll appreciate,
So the other element we wanted to discuss in Cabinet was around the levelling up works and the fact that we've got a time limited programme with which to deliver those works now the original plan was to.
spend 2 points, or 2.4 8 million pounds on the Folca building, which was as a result of a study that was carried out, pre the levelling up submission that's.
basically gave us the the money, then to explore what we could do with the envelope of the building. So pilings again was a consultant who was tendered and procured. They won the commission and they were commissioned to oversee a series of surveys on the building and with those series of surveys to present a report back to us as officers to determine the best use of that money that we had from the levelling up fund. That's basically produce this. As I mentioned earlier, this envelope of the buildings as repairing the roof, the windows and some strip out works
Would be with the aim of getting out and separating sorry separating the building as in focal one from Folkard 2 as well, so those works were all specified and ready to go to tender.
but we held back on that on the premise of the the ought to changes, if you like, to the plans for that particular building. So we again are kind of now looking at how we ensure that we deliver on time in terms of the Lee levelling up fund, but what we don't want to do pending the outcome of the medical provision if we're allowed to explore it is to ensure that what we do do isn't abortive works if that makes sense, so what we wanted to do is make sure understand who and who was going into the occupation essentially are focused too before we kind of push the button on that particular tender, but that is time limited, so we wanted to make Members aware that we do need to move forward on that at a reasonable pace.
and in terms of folk to itself, we were commissioned back in February 2023 to seek.
Options or explore options in terms of the Council moving into folk 2 and making into a potentially or through a public sector building with some commercial. So we are asked to carry that out, which we started the work on that we commissioned an architect. We also commissioned and economic appraisal expert as well, to determine the benefits of whoever goes in there from that work, and also we worked with our in-house finance colleagues to look at the the financial make-up as well of that particular business case. So as you'll appreciate those three key commissions' all kind of work together with the aim of Kanye coming up with the ultimate and optimum solution for for the building and the aim, then was that we were going to present that back and do some sort of public consultation on that. Those options going forward and then represent that back to Cabinet later this year, so that was. That was the aim of that that work again because the medical centre potentially may be. We can explore that option, then obviously that has a bearing on those three commissions, so we need to kind of just pause that until we, we look at the the medical centre and how that will manifests itself within the building
so hopefully we'll get to present that back to Cabinet later in the year, that's that's the aim, so it's been a bit of a meandering piece of work in terms of trying to find a direction of travel due to the the elements I've just explained but hopefully we're starting to get a plan in terms of what we'll do with that by the end of the financial year or by the end of the calendar year that's the aim.
so any questions are just checking, I think I've covered most aspects in the response, but if not, please do.
Yeah, I think you have thank you for that and I'm sure there will be
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:15:37
questions, obviously it is our job to scrutinise these things, so I'll open it up to colleagues on the committee to ask questions about presentation.
Councillor Walker,
Cllr Belinda Walker - 0:15:57
I just have possibly three questions, I just wondered about Folca 1, if you'd actually had an inkling, what that could be, now it's not going to be the medical centre, there's any any ideas floating around people's hopes at the moment as to what it could be if any plans are being put in place.
Thank you, Councillor Walker.
Well, I think what we need to do is just understand the financial implications of the of the building, as I mentioned as a condition survey carried out at 3.00 points 8 million pounds so we need to understand how that will work through. We need to understand also the fact that what's the appetite of the market out there in terms of commercial activity and who might go in there in an ideal world, you'd try and bring in a sector that isn't necessarily within the town centre. At the moment, I mean leisure is one that we will be keen to bring in, but that's again to do with that particular end of the building is quite complex and has got quite a small sort of lots of Higglety, Pigglety rooms essentially in different levels, so it makes a bit tricky to redevelop. There's talk of sort of you know, potentially boutique hotels, and things like that. That might be interested, but until we go out there and explore the market, it can be difficult for us to make a judgement, because at the end of the day, has to be viable, because we got some responsibility in terms of the finances that we will spend on that on that particular building, but we are keen that we do move that one forward.
because obviously we're doing a lot of the levelling up works around that site
and I do have a sort of a second question that relates to that, if I can just wondered if the
The focus will be driven purely by financial concerns or therapy or a wellbeing element to it as well, and community benefit.
If we would just be commercial that you're looking at.
again, it depends if everything the finances stack up, unfortunately, that the finances do dictate to a degree, as you will appreciate, but one where we can, we appreciate that the the community side is really important and where we can build that into either focus or focus to them we will endeavour to do that.
sorry those such as the third question now just relating to the windows and the repairs, I just wondered if any damage has been done by not repairing them earlier and regardless of what the gifts might be if there's been any further damage to the building by not repairing the the windows at the moment.
Yeah, so it's a good question and I think the answer to that is probably yes.
Mr Rod Lean - 0:18:28
Mainly because we anticipated that that building would be taken on by the the GPs and then they would potentially subject to planning demolish that building, therefore any works that we would do on that building would be deemed as abortive clearly that didn't manifest itself going forward, so we are having to kind of now look at the implications of not maintaining it as we would have wanted to had we thought we were going to retain it.
Thank you, Councillor Walker, Councillor Martin.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:18:55
Cllr Elaine Martin - 0:18:59
thank you Ann, do you have any idea when you're expecting to know that with it, the medical central, gonna take the space or not?
Mr Rod Lean - 0:19:10
Thank you, Councillor, in terms of folk, to certainly so the the aim really is that the GPs developer will be has been looking at that space, they are presenting figures back to the ICB. We're yet to get formal confirmation, whether that is viable or not viable, so we're we're aiming to try and get conclusion on that within work during the summer period. That's that's the aim because, as I mentioned earlier, they're levelling up work has to go ahead, so we need to to make a decision in terms of that building going out
Councillor Wing,
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:19:49
Cllr John Wing - 0:19:52
But I am talking about levelling up, and in the 11 up front in the windows we go need timeline, I mean, how long when we have to spend the money bypass our notes timeline and any idea how long it would take to repair the roof the windows, but how are we actually doing it with Timewise is it getting a bit tight?
Mr Rod Lean - 0:20:12
It's starting to get a little bit tighter in terms of we know it's going to take approximately 26 weeks to do the works and intended, and that's including the tender process is well within that, and we are therefore need to kind of make a decision reasonably quickly on that we have had a little bit of success with.
d look at apartment, levelling up in terms of the
The March 25 deadline so that they've not called it an extension. They've called it a re baseline of the the deadline. So we've now got that says September 25, so that gives us a little bit more time in order to get our ducks in a row as it were, but the key aim for us really is not to do abortive works, therefore we were kind of holding back as much as we can. We feel most of the works that we specified will actually be OK, it's just. The roof is the critical element, depending on what goes on that roof. In terms of
The kids that them if a medical centre or whoever goes in there, we just need to understand that.
Councillor Martin,
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:21:18
Thank you sounds like you're playing a really tricky game of medical centres, solitaire and.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:21:22
I just wonder the at what point do we need to take a bit of a step back and review it so clearly there was a firm plan to put medical centre in for one you had other plans for Foca too, including maybe moving Civic Centre into there in your answer just now it sounds like forecourt once quite complicated whatever you try and put in today and I just wonder whether, with through a process of elimination getting to a
to a stage I might get to a stage at some point later this year, where we realised we were kind of grappling with a difficult puzzle, and maybe there's a there's a different or different way out, rather than trying to put put things into a space that that we own.
Thanks, Councillor Martin, yes, it is a tricky one in our work and
Mr Rod Lean - 0:22:11
deny that I think we're trying to separated slightly in terms of focal one. I think that needs to be a separate entity, and that's the aim is to separate that away and actually deal with that as a separate entity, so it doesn't affect the the Folk 2 entity. As I mentioned earlier, we've got the levelling up funding, which is a great opportunity, and it would be a shame to have to hand that back if that was the ultimate decision, so we're keen to try and push forward with it with an occupation strategy that works. So as we're having regular meetings in which we are doing at the moment, with many parties as possible, working with those three commissions', I mentioned a was commissioned to commission's and one in-house team. The aim is to continue to have those conversations so we can tweak designs and, as I've mentioned, hopefully find the optimum sort of financial puzzle or jigsaw to the puzzle the with it, we're trying to to solve at the moment, and that's the kind of basis, but there will come a time where we need to cut off and make a decision. Absolutely at that point we come probably towards the little tail end of of this
calendar year
Can I ask?
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:23:22
why it's taken such a long time to get to a place where it's been confirmed, it isn't viable to have the medical centre in Folca one, because I think it was obvious, fairly early on that the dimensions didn't fit with that building and certainly I think that kind of community response was that people didn't want to see that building knocked down, so I'm just wondering why it's taken until now for us to be clear that it's not a viable project
Yeah, thank you, I think the main reason is around the the space
Mr Rod Lean - 0:24:00
requirements which I mentioned earlier, and so I think they've been discussing the space requirements so we've obviously not been involved in that discussion. There's a certain strict criteria in terms of how that that space requirement is scrutinised by the ICB because obviously they've got a limited pot of money so they scrutinise it and look at the potential designs and one sort of spatial arrangements they were coming up with, so I think that's quite a long time and I think a key person within that projects.
I fell ill so that didn't help the the course had delayed it some further, so we'd been continued trying to push them to some sort of given outcome really as to where to where that was going, and I think it was exacerbated then also by the the sort of financial instability and the wider economic issues that everybody's experience in terms of the the build costs and also the
The financial sort of interest rates as well, so I think that was those are the kind of key component parts when it came to a crescendo where we were pushing them hard to come up with a decision, basically on the basis that we need to understand aware where we are, because we've got this levelling up funding, that we need to sort of move forward on, and therefore I think they sort of came two or two ahead so that the early part of this year and that's that's kind of where we came to but it has been a bit of a sort of a slow process I will grant you that.
Yes, thank you, that is, is it?
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:25:29
you talked about when consultation would happen in terms of the uses of the building, I'm just wondering whether any thought has been given to whether that should be happening sooner, given the fact that we don't know whether these different options are going to proceed and the work that's gone on in terms of alternative options.
now obviously needs to be looked at because of these changes. Is it a moment to do an update to people to to the district, on what's happening with the building and what the potential options could be or to seek feedback from people about those, because I know I mean it's now it's four years isn't it since the council bought the building, so it's a long time that it's been in the situation that it is and I think people are keen to see it brought into use but also keen to be able to give a view on what those uses might be, so he has any thought been given to to the consultation timetable in that respect.
very much so I mean, I think that's over forefront of our sort of
Mr Rod Lean - 0:26:31
project planning, really in terms of trying to navigate the one at your right, has taken a long time, but I think everyone will agree. He's been through quite a tumultuous periods in the last four years, and even the last two two years I mean, as I started a couple of years ago, we were getting to a point where we were trying to put together a plan of action and that was coming to fruition. We were talking to potential commercial sectors that might want to come in there to fulfil some of the voice that we were experienced in terms of leisure where we were leaking to other districts like Ashford, but as the autumn approached in that particular year when we had the autumn mini budget and therefore been when the wider issues in terms of was that everybody just kind of receded and ended and didn't want to engage any more, they were just patiently consolidating, so we then had to rethink what what can we do do with the building and then I think that's at the time of the administration they were thinking, maybe a public sector, we could go in there and try and work through on that basis, which is what we were then doing and again we were producing designs and actually we were looking to try and come to a public consultation this summer but of course the medical centre news came in and therefore we we we had to then take stock of that and actually just hold back, so it is very much on the are in the forefront of our minds, but it's doing it at the right time that we know
We've got all our ducks aligned and, more importantly, the viability is there, there is going to work, so what we don't want to do is put something out there that might sound great, but actually from a viability perspective, when you scrutinise it a bit more it doesn't work, so it's really important we get those numbers right, and that's why our finance colleagues are really critical to to this project. Thank you. Are there any other questions or comments and then
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:28:15
Committee Councillor Hills and then Councillor Walker
thank you.
Councillor Tony Hills - 0:28:24
It's obviously an iconic building with a lot of history behind it, and it's totally unsuited to modern business, but truth be known.
So you might have to start thinking outside of that particular box to me this is a pie stand, I will do it, I can library adult education art centre, that's sort of the community activity I just really can get any money from government, of course,
I really can't see it me at commercial, but we might need to set up some sort of working party to try and him investigate which way to go forward rather than limit just to officers we might have to get involved as well, or somebody will to try and get the speed into it because you are quite right it's been going on for four years so they could go on for another four years.
thank you, Councillor Harris, did you want to come back on that, yeah,
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:29:17
thank you for the question.
Mr Rod Lean - 0:29:21
it's a yeah like I mentioned earlier, it's been quite a volatile four years, so I think we've had to navigate a lot of.
surprises, as we've gone through that period, and not least, the pandemic and the economic situation, etc. So I think now we've we've learned an awful lot from that experience as well, I think we're getting to a point where we know, potentially what might happen there, but we just need to make sure the viability and the figures start to stack up, so I think we're getting there and I feel reasonably confident that we will get at some. We'll get a decision at some point now towards the end of this. This this calendar year keeps saying financial year calendar year
To enable us really, then to progress going forward in a positive way.
if if things don't work out via the end of it, in terms of the viability and the options that we're considering at the moment, then of course we'll come back and then seek or seek a kind of a direction of travel thereafter and then and then we can go from there but I think at the moment I feel like we're starting to get there.
Even though it sounds like we might be still quite far apart in terms of the information I've imparted today.
Councillor Walker,
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:30:31
Yes, I just wondered if there was a deadline for these surgeries to
Cllr Belinda Walker - 0:30:35
agree to this, the hospital was says as if it could potentially not happen.
one of the critical elements actually, I think, as far as Robert I've
Mr Rod Lean - 0:30:45
read, is around the District Valuer, and they've got a certain number, that all projects have to kind of align to, and I understand that they've not really moved that number over the last few years which has made it very difficult for medical centres and other provisions.
Alliance, the NHS, so that she become viable and actually be delivered, which is which is interesting in its own right. Therefore, I think there needs to be a change somewhere in that structure to enable these projects, then to become to become viable. So, but we are talking to the ICB about that and the variants and the tolerances within that particular number to see if there is anything there, so we are having those conversations as well, but they do need to get to a point because they've got a ring-fenced allocation of money for for this, because they seem focused and as a priority area
I've got Councillor Chapman and then Councillor Jones.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:31:37
you're talking about the medical centre going into the vodka wonderful
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:31:42
to mixed up, but I'm going into Folkard 2 instead, so what impact would that potentially have on, I know we've talked about the civic centre moving into that building or the council moving into that building what impact would that have on the council moving into that building?
Mr Rod Lean - 0:32:06
Essentially we've done the very rough estimates in terms of the area they have and the area that we require and it all fits believe it or not, it's a massive building if you if you've got into Folca too it's a huge building still construction, so it's quite a sort of a regulated building and layout, so it's quite easy to adapt in that regard which is positive, so we we feel confident that we're going to accommodate everything that we need in that building.
And we hope to get some commercial in there, as I mentioned earlier, as well.
Councillor Jones, thank you now it's been really useful that you've
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:32:41
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:32:43
given us so much information as she because when I looked at the notes there was not a lot to go on, so I think what I would like to come out of this meeting is, I'd like to see a proper, proper timetable. We've talked about titters, but when are we going to get decisions? We really need to have that to say that the council feel confident that we are going to be moving forward with this in time for the deadline for the levelling up money.
so I don't know whether that's possible to put that in place and to circulate that.
Why thank you?
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:33:15
yes, it's a quick answer.
It is a very, very challenging project, as Roger Spain outlines here, we had a clear way forward with the medical centre going into formula one.
The ICB have confirmed that's not happening. There's no way that can happen within that footprint of that building. Can they come into focus too. There's loads of interest. I really want to deliver this in fighting the surgeries really want to deliver this in Folkestone, and it was one of the primary reasons right at the start of the project to help increase footfall, get that new medical facility within Folkestone town centre as looks set as we start progressing through the next few months, we've got really clear way forward now set out in how we were breaking this down, and by the time we get over the summer we'll have clear direction where the medical centre are. We will have done that, but all the viability studies, and then we have a plan coming in, and I suggest that with the vote, probably in the next round of cabinet papers in the autumn, that we have a clear project timeline through that period to show you how that's happening. That will include consultation delivery
And everything else we're doing so, so yes, nobody has come back to.
site.
So I won't come back, I'll come back in a minute sorry.
Yeah
Sorry, yeah, I'm sorry that's not be great, I think we just, I think,
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:34:39
for confidence in the Council and the Council in this project if that is actually going to happen, it'd be really nice to see those clear steps publicised is that OK absolutely?
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:34:49
And the point was regarding the Council occupancy of the building, I think the most important thing for the Council is to have the front line face customer facing services within the building, so looking at walks of what services are people coming in, to use the Council for so not necessarily all the back office staff and everything that we have here could not just been sought the front line service provision are but again we need to work out that through the different uses through the space how that factored into the viability and what makes the building work on what makes it doesn't work so I say is massively complex and challenging but we will be in a much better position to bring further work back on reports in the autumn
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:35:32
Councillor Chapman so can I just clarify so if I mean
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:35:36
that amongst people in my ward there's quite a lot of there's quite strong feeling about when we talked about the council going that building I think it's a really great idea and are we saying that there isn't room for everything to go into that building or in it it does fit or it doesn't fit I'm I'm confused now
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:36:01
yet it does it does very depends on other users who wants to come into the space and and how that goes into the viability model so it's very close it's gonna cost basically the bottom line is going to cost them big number big amount of money to get the building often running where it needs to be so in order and that a lot of that will come from capital borrowing or capital receipts we have to repay that money
so we need a rental income from the building in order to service the debt for the building so that all gets factored into the viability model and we're also looking at obviously what's going on what's going to increase the footfall in South Centre was in the best interests of the town center and get in the mix right of the building says success but said underpinning all of that is the viability so we need to make sure the rental income covers the debt associated with the building
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:36:55
OK I think that's helpful to clarify and I think the Committee would be keen to understand the detail behind these points in order to properly be able to comment on it as part of bringing that information back to the Committee in a timely way Councillor Butcher
thank you so you know I was just trying to understand on that that
Cllr James Butcher - 0:37:16
this idea that some of what goes on here my movement not all if all does present me then this site gets disposed off if any sum does it doesn't could you just talk through that Andy that the different implications of some or all of was him the
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:37:31
there were still working through the ourselves it is of course an option for us to go that lock stock the whole lot bay is also an option for us not so we'd I necessary need to have that sort of location for all of our services so that could be surplus office accommodation in a non High Street location for example which might be more efficient for the council to run if we can get commercials tannin which repay a higher rent in that building says or it's all balance so as was the best use of the building where's the best place roster goes that the best thing for us to have it in the harshest occasion certainly is our frontline services where our residents want to come in and use those who use our services interact with our staff that's how about
if the space required space that we we can take over for the rest of of services are and that works out to be viable but we would then have to pay a rent in order to service that our previous loan for the development itself or is it better for us to use have a commercial tenant coming in who would pay a higher and potentially and have a better use of that space so this is all the stuff that we're working through some of the having regard right now that this is all this about hugely complex financial models
whichever then gets fed into we're having lots of conversations around different uses and things are people who are interested in space and times potentially taken tenants from here with us and looking after other stakeholders but a lot of it at the moment his just finalising was going on with a medical centre that's critical to the success of the building was everybody wants a medical centre in that building we want to make that happen the ICB wanna make it happen the surgeries what to make it happen but we're just got get to that point and part coming here tonight as to get that on a journey of get an agreement to oversee exploring that involved so and ask going away working with all the other teams involved and and see how we make that happen
when do you think you'd be in a position to come back to the Committee
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:39:32
with a more detailed update on this on these points certainly also
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:39:38
this year this year saga the Committee Schedule September and potentially yet we still weighed in on ICB staff and where and when the process is that they have to go through for their approvals and we've got summer coming up I would hope we wanna get this bottom docks we will deliver on the lost works and we want to know what's happening with a building
this is a huge amount of work going on in the background so obviously to you guys in might seem the obviously we've had the building for years and we haven't done anything we have been doing a huge amount of work in the background on this, I can assure you now, I think I think we're very aware of that said.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:40:14
I think that would be really helpful if, if it could come back before the Committee as soon as that is feasible, with the detail that that we need to look at it is, that is something that the committee would agree with yeah and also I think in terms of the point about the viability, obviously the point that Councillor Walker made around thinking about the kind of community aspect and the benefits of it is it would be another important point as part of that as part of that thinking,
OK can we note note that then, in terms of next steps on this particular item and thank Rod and Andy for the detail, they've been able to provide this evening lot of questions, so I appreciate your time in in dealing with those.

8 Procurement Plan (Local Suppliers)

Okay, we're going to move on to our second item, which is
the procurement plan, and we have a presentation to go through this evening as as part of that, are you ready on a thank you very much?
Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:41:28
Minister provide an overview in from subject Council procurement plans, most especially the sexual 5 for the procurement plan that focuses on the look what business says and the Assembly participation and the paper also cover or share with you in detail what we are able to do within the constraints of the procurement regulations, what the procurement team has been doing to be able to support that local plan. We are aware of the comment from your briefing in terms of data in terms of demonstration of what we are currently doing, and that is one of the reasons we have got a procurement manager with us today and we are going to run through a few slides and following thus lies who would be able to take questions? Thank you, our procurement manager, she's Adebola, who is joining us for the first time today. Thank you
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:42:34
It may never get even in councillors than everybody.
I'm here to talk to you about what we've been doing and give a background about procurement, the regulations and what we work towards in the how the regulation effects and rules or guides our decisions and what we do. So we have the public contracts Regulations 2015, that basically ease the regulation, that regulates everything we do as procurement in terms of how we procure what we need to do as a single market when we go out to market, what kind of procedures that we need to do, the kind of competitive procedure that is allowed and how we work around different stuff. Although there is recently the I'm sure she'll value her, that we need to implement intuit as well, but we have to factor in the regulation when we do things as well to make sure that they all work hand in hand. So it is also very important to us that we as a Council and a procure meeting, would try to encourage local bidders to beat but not we cannot exclude others in favour of local suppliers because the regulation doesn't allow us to, because
One of the principles of the regulation is about being fair, transparent and open to all competitors as a UK single market, but it is anticipated that a new regulation is coming into force in October and this will kind of.
Change. Maybe there's some flexibility and everything, and also because we worked primarily on the EU regulation as of now, so the new regulation is ETI. UK is a UK one which is looking at different ways that we can procure in a better and more flexible way. So from the regulation we also have our own standing orders, which is it reflects the whole of the regulations requirement, and it also guides in terms of the different trust showed, and we're how we can procure and what will be so we have the or both regulations above threshold which complies with the CPR regulation. Those are those we have no control over. We have to do them in language of regulations, and those are details on their
I have included the value which is inclusive of VAT and as closely because most of the businesses we do anomaly exclusive, so we can understand what the thresholds are and there are different thresholds for works for services, and these thresholds are not just they're not set as don't like it's forever, so they change every two years in January, so these are the latest ones which was implemented in January of this year.
so we now have the below thresholds, so these are the words that are governed by our.
Constitution, our Council, Standing orders, so we have anything 0 2 9 2 10,000, we can go for a single quote.
Anything between 10 to 100,000, we have to seek a minimum of three quotes and anything over 100,000, we have to do an open, competitive process, but we do have a bit of flexibilities around that because that is governed by a whole CSL, so we try to be as flexible around that.
Much more in, rather than with the overall threshold ones.
so when we developed, when the procurement plan was developed aids, the aim was to incorporate the corporate plan as well, and one of that was about the trivial environmental vibrant.
Economy and the way we could do that, and also with where we need to support the local economies and Fateh ensures your values, apprenticeships and where we need to look for and reduce costs or value for money in terms of costs them and also because the castle is also one of the ambitions of the Council Lisa goes 0 by 2030 so that, as we have factored into it in terms of lower carbon emissions and shorter and less logistic challenges,
which will help if we are around China.
Using local.
And since the implementation, the team have been working to make sure that we improve our local suppliers, participation, and we've I think one of the things that we've done and the reason how we've done this is also actually listening to them and taking this into consideration and in terms of how we improve so we've looked at ways that our tenders goes out and how simple they are how we can make it simple for them.
Where and how we can also reduce our annual threshold annual turnover, so that the LA House look who bidders to come in, not to minimise every barriers that we see you know, sometimes when is a low value? Do a quick quote that can turn things around without making it too long or too complicated where some bidders. I just you know they don't have the time or they're not familiar with that kind of process and also be there to talk them through what we need as well and also
factor in some social value into bigger and larger contracts. In terms of apprenticeship, are you going to employ locally supply chain, are you going to be buying from local suppliers? Are you going to do? Subcontracts locally employ locally and also one of the things that we also need to note is also that sometimes, and which we also factor is, even though some companies might be local and they actually employ locally, and those are the things we try to pull out to actually identify if the economy, who have the money, is being spent locally or within their command
so, based on what we've done so far, we've pulled out some data to show our spend because when we say local, we were not sure if is supposed to be just Folkestone or if you're supposed to be East Councillor Kent, so we've done something around the old tree.
all three as a whole, so in 20, so you could see our spend in 2020 21 going to to against what our overall space, that is.
Everything that we spend in general as a whole annually against what I spend and.
Again, assessment took time it, so just could you just go as on that one year, could you just talk us through in a bit more detail because I don't think I have quite quite grasped it,
I'm not sure whether this have the overall spend is everything we spend as a Council in terms of business, so it's not just based on the campaign is based on our overall spend with every single suppliers and everything that we put in services works and everything that's what the overall is so the HDC is what we've spent within Folkestone,
Folkestone district, not just Folkestone alone, every district that falls within Folkestone, so it could be Hyde it could be.
Tim Church.
yeah. So this is that this is the yellow, the everything yellow box or right. I was wondering that sorry, should they say 21,021 21 plus 22, yes and 22 plus 23, yes, OK now it makes much more sense, my apologist and then what we spend in East Kent, so every district that falls within East Kent, the 7 million was spent in 2022 21 and the blue area here is showing that as well, and that's the middle area in the last one, is also serving there and then what we spent as Councillors at home is on the third one for each financial year.
Okay, thank you for clarifying that.
And then the data to to show the up.
upward trend of our spend with local suppliers, so in 2020 we have 1.7 we spent 1.73%.
And in 2021 is going up to 1.9 2 and into 2022 23 is gone up to 2.85%, so we shows that we're doing something, and I hope that we continue to do something to improve and show an open and if you can see the East Kent as well is showing an upward trend as well as Kent as a whole, so it shows that we are spending more.
Within the local area.
So our plan and strategy is to continue doing what we're doing. We're seeking more opportunities and improving what we're doing so for considering breaking down contract M, more lots where possible, so because sometimes we have to think about economies of scale, but where we feel that it is essential that this is. This is something that can benefit from local supplies participation. We will consider breaking down our contracts. We will continue to promote that. We know the council's payment policy about 30 days and and then we'll continue to it, will always encourage local businesses to go on Kent business portal because that's where we advertise our we publish our opportunities, that's where most are not even us all counts, because we all can local authorities publish the opportunity on that, so we always always encourage local businesses to do that. And yes, we old suppliers debrief. We have individual meetings whenever we have two, especially after they've submitted a tender, or they are not successful in order to help them to be able to attain the successfully with the Council, so we're always given them guidance, giving them deep debrief with an important part of the procurement process, because I believe, if someone as of taken the time to tender, then we need to go back to them and tell them what they've done right or where they can improve on what they happen and then we've looked to simplify our tender documents. We also look to simplify in terms of our,
Contract agreements are draft agreements. Instead of making them too long, we've shut in them, or sometimes we don't even go for. We go with the peo tamsin condition that helps them to actually understand things, not just a long agreement that they need to sign where they are confused or they just go. We don't want to do that because and then we'd say the local suppliers into account when creating tenders strategies. We look at ways that we can
make it simple or influence their participation, so it was our Sanders opportunity.
I think that's all thank you very much if you have any questions, thank you very much for that.
de I don't know if.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:55:07
I think the Committee only raised this sort of at the end of last week, so you may not have had the chance to do this, but do you have any data on a recent procurement processes and
the quarterly reviews of the procurement plan in terms of some of the actions that you've talked about, where they've happened and what impact they've had, or if you're if they are not haven't had the chance to to look at that, would that be something that could be provided to the committee?
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:55:41
Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:55:44
Approach, I think again we saw your comments very late, prompts, of course, is something that we can take away, I will look at it and come back to this committee with an update, thank you.
thank you, it may be something that could be circulated by e-mail, if
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:55:59
that that would be possible, then Members could see that more swiftly,
Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:56:02
yeah, thank you.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:56:06
the the just just for members of the Committee, this as this has come in front of us because of the motion that we agreed at Full Council.
And I think it is linked to within the agenda, but the the gist of that motion was around reviewing the Council's procurement action plan and seeing what we can do to enhance our ability to have progressive procurement and look at community wealth building, so that's very much I think the spirit in which the committee is wanting to to approach this and that's the conversations that that we've had so far so I'll open it up to colleagues to to come in Councillor Chapman.
Thank you, and I consider a lot of work gone into this report, so
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:56:53
thank you very much for that and I really appreciate it.
But what it doesn't seem to do is to engage with the substance of the motion, it mentions it briefly at the beginning and then doesn't really seem to engage with it, it talks a lot about what we can do within the legislation, but the motion wasn't asking us to do anything outside the legislation.
We were very much, this is Labour business, it was part of the manifesto in which were elected.
community wealth building and positive procurement is a well researched evidence based approach to spending public money where.
Councils like Preston, but many others are seeing big benefits from it, there was a paper in the Lancet published last year which showed that, with precedent following this positive procurement model.
And this is this is a peer reviewed paper, wages had gone up 11% over and above what would have been otherwise expected.
reported wellbeing was up.
Antidepressant prescription was down, there were huge benefits for the community and Preston, I don't think we're suggesting for a minute that pressmen doing anything illegal or outside of the legislation.
so while I appreciate there's a huge amount of work, that's gone into this report, what I would really like to see happen is for us to go away again and to really engage with the motion and look at how we can move towards what that what that motion was asking because it was largely carried by Council. I think there were two abstentions and it's something that I know that the community that I am talking to are extremely excited about and I can't go back to them and say well, you know, we're just going to sort of stick with the status quo, I want us to be showing that we're moving towards that as much as we possibly can. So I wonder if I can, with the greatest respect and the greatest amount of respect for the work that you've put into this
Asked that we could maybe go away and look at this again because I don't really feel like it's engaged with the spirit of the motion and I really want this community to see that happen.
Thank you, Councillor Chapman, did you want to come back on the at
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:59:18
this stage, I'm happy to make it come again, thanks so much for your
Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:59:20
comments and I'd say your comments about what prison has been doing in terms of progressive procurement as you repeated and it has been mentioned many many times similar to what you said would definitely go away, look at what we could do learn from our network of it discussion and see how who move section 5 of the procurement further. Thank you.
That's really helpful, thank you, colleagues, Councillor Martin.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:59:48
I mean, I can see you're already.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:59:55
Doing quite a lot of good work in terms of engaging local businesses, and the the analysis that you've got here is already quite quite very revealing, I think I've I've got a few.
A few thoughts around that might be around how we could sort of enhance that and drill down into it. One of the questions I did have when I was looking at your graphs, is See you show, I think, in all in the latest year, 61 and a half percent of businesses sourced from within Kent, which is already quite quite significant and quite curious to see where that other kind of 39% is is going and to understand. I think you mentioned it a little bit yourself, but you know, are these national companies are they
From slightly outside of Ken, are they employing local, local people and I'll be quite keen just to sort of complete that sort of economic loop, if you like, so we can get a really clear view of where that, where that money's ending up,
aside from that, I wonder whether, beyond the work that you're already doing, it's more a case of.
creating some transparency around that analysis and maybe sort of beefing the analysis up a little bit and just being able to transparently show with where where that business is going and interest and monitor that over time, and it might reveal some interesting areas within the 39% where for whatever reason we're not we're not going with we've we've local companies and maybe there's some action we can take.
per hour around that, but I wonder whether you know, on top of the work that you are already doing, it's just adding that extra little piece of the of the jigsaw. Really, the question I had was what should our aspiration be with chat about this on last week and are kind of pre pre meeting so so where this has been done elsewhere, what were they aspiring for and what they actually achieved, because I think there's a there's always gonna be this reason why there's always going to be procurement rules and it's never going to be possible to place 100% of your business with fully local organisations. I guess the first question is, what do we consider to be local and it it strikes me that you kind of want to be placed in business as local as possible, but maybe it is almost a bit of a Venn diagram. Isn't it, but this is sort of ever increasing circles, and if you look at your data now it'd be nice over time to see that business being placed, getting closer and closer to to home, and maybe that's something we monitor, but what what we actually aspiring to achieve, and what does good luck look like as a
Question on my mind.
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 1:02:42
If I can just chip in I, I think that what you said about engaging with councils like Preston and what, because there's no point in reinventing the wheel if they've done a lot of work as to what what is reasonable and what what local means can we build on the work that they've done.
So it would be really interesting to me if you could possibly engage with that and see what is what has already been done and what we can work towards in this area.
Yeah again, definitely in terms of using our network, would definitely
Mr Ola Owolabi - 1:03:11
do that. President name has been mentioned over and over again procurement of goods at network, where they share information, where we share best on good practices as well, so we can learn from each other we can decide, we can define in terms of how far we want to take local participation on Thursday May and again in terms of aspiration, I mean our procurement manager made reference to some of that during her slide in terms of supporting local economics, are telling us to show an environmental benefit, reducing costs, lowering carbon emission and shutter and less logistic challenges.
Those are some of the aspirations which we are currently working on to make sure we tick the right boxes for local participation, but I believe we can still do Mandanda by learning what is out there, using our network and making sure we come back to this Scrutiny Committee with a relevant object, thank you I think within it is really worth
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:04:16
looking at the Preston information because they they have ways that they're demonstrating it through data and which could be really helpful to us, I think, to address Councillor Martin's point as well.
other comments, colleagues, Councillor Butcher,
Cllr James Butcher - 1:04:35
thanks Chair just wanted to drill down into the the table, you put up about the percentages, so the 2.85% and how that compares with other districts, and it's just a figure, isn't it, and unless we can see that in comparison is that good bad indifferent, I know it's getting better but just do we have any data how it compares.
Yeah
Sir, thank you Councillor worship, we haven't got that data, but it's something that we could look through CIPFA benchmark gain and come up with a better understanding of what other councils are doing, which
Mr Ola Owolabi - 1:05:17
hopefully supports are into range of what we are currently agreeing, but it's something that we could. We could look into yeah because the Executive, if we want to know whether all the efforts that you've
Cllr James Butcher - 1:05:29
outline there, all the processes, if I'm to know if they're having the desired effect, there is something yes about. Are we seeing an improvement, but if it turns out other similar districts are doing way better than that would give us some clues as to what we might do differently and just
I wasn't sure whether the folks in hive spend is then included in the East Kent spend, which is then included in the Kent spend, is that it is out the way than the figures.
Mr Ola Owolabi - 1:06:02
My understanding where you look at the table for 2021 21 22 22 23, we have one harmless band of tattoo, lie million of ways.
Folkestone A 6 7 9 in 2021 6 or 4 in 21 22.
8 7 2 in 22 23.
I don't we are not Harding, Folkestone is kind and came together to make that touch in Nigeria or other areas where we've actually spent some of those money, but we're just looking at a proportion that has been spent locally, but I guess the question comes down to this is
Cllr James Butcher - 1:06:48
when we look at the East Kent spend and then the percentage that is being spent in Folkestone High is not what we'd expect.
is this particular bit of East Kent doing as well as the rest of East Kent, and if not, why not? So, I guess it's just I'm not expecting the answer now, but it's just trying to get under the data to see what this is telling us, so there's a numbers, but what was telling us about how we're doing comparatively so that we can then think well what policies might make a difference, and I know a lot of this is about procedural things that we could do differently, but I guess it's going to be a whole range of things to do with skills development. Thank you, Councillor Berisha, again, I'd say we can't go away
I'll try and analyse some of those figures and break them down to a desire to understand what is being lit and they will be able to come back to you on that, thank you.
Mr Ola Owolabi - 1:07:44
so OK to carry on, please do Councillor Butcher yeah, it was a
Cllr James Butcher - 1:07:48
question about social value and just wanting to understand a bit more about that, the sort of various references to social value criteria.
Mostly with with reference to apprenticeships and skills development, I didn't really understand school, non-school and the whole social value model, as I understand it, and it's got loads and loads of criteria has noticed, I just wanted to understand.
We attending for.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:08:14
I value contracts so we go out to legislate nationally, it is quite evident that sometimes a local supplier might not get the business, but as part of that tender process we have to include an aspect of social value for an example we are currently doing the tender for the responsive repairs, the housing and one of the inclusion within there is to see what they will be offering in terms of apprenticeship within the local area.
In terms of skills, in terms of training and where there will be sourcing the materials and stop from local area and stuff, and those are the things that we try to implement within the tender and see how they will respond and it it has been effective because some have come up with a really good response in terms of helping the local economy or give him back.
And we've had a lot of apprenticeship that has been offered as part of the social value team and there has been a lot of sub-contractors so, for example, our current contract with Mears, there'd be company, a big national company, but they do recruit locally.
And so when, when you're doing returns, log on to you select from the social value criteria, ones that you think are particularly relevant that you ask because was done yet because there's no point in just generalise them, and that is one thing that we are currently reviewing because sometimes there is a general question and people will respond that we will plant trees we would do this but not relevant to that time so we have to make it relevant so that we are seeing the kind of response that will be applicable to that particular contract.
Thank you, I mean, I suppose, just one last observation, looking at
Cllr James Butcher - 1:10:18
the depressing model is quite a comprehensive approach.
Economic development and working with partners. And so I guess that's part of our curiosity. In a sense, he's had we get beyond all the good work that's being done now to be linking up with our economic development strategy and and all of that, so it's a more comprehensive approach. Headsets are all a wider question is nothing can he make the
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:10:45
point in the report that this is not just going to be a procurement issue? It's going to be a kind of whole council approach and certainly we've been discussing it in the Corporate Plan. Working group sessions that that we've had is something that we would want to kind of push forward in on it's in the current corporate plan as well. So I think it's not going away is an issue that we're gonna want to talk about as a Council
and you're indicating
If I could share it for my just a couple of points really interesting
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 1:11:15
conversation, and I saw it on a lot of service areas, the vibe of goods.
And I think some of the things, the figures, and that this is something that we can try and drill down into big contracts.
maize which was already referenced Violier the sums are those two contracts alone is getting on for 7 8 million pounds a year, so when you look at it as a percentage, it's taken a huge amount of that money out there now I can think of service areas grounds, maintenance assets, engineering, housing where we use hundreds of local contractors.
vehicle repairs, fencing all of our timber supplies, all of our other supplies, nuts and bolts things locks, everything, painters, decorators.
Mechanics, they're all local suppliers, all of them, but the figures, I think, probably escape because of the big contracts are all grouped in, I think they probably skew at the local supply network is vital for our operation and we always go for all those services. I've just mentioned and many, many more we always go to local suppliers. I just thought it was just worthy of just pointing now
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:12:26
Thank you, Councillor Walker, indicating next, and I just wondered if this could be an opportunity to have a new KPI with regard to
Cllr Belinda Walker - 1:12:33
procurement and the heading like a vibrant economy may, which include some of these pressingly things done if Cabinet, since Finance were able to consider that,
Mr Ola Owolabi - 1:12:48
Again, thanks so much for your comments, I'm not sure how this would be measured, however, as part of already social networking, we definitely happy to discuss it with our network, I mean if Preston has got KPIs which they are useful in terms of measuring local participation yeah it's something that could speak to them about and learn from them and then come back with what we think is reasonable or what we think is achievable. Thank you
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:13:19
Thank you, and I think the KPIs are coming to our committee anyway, so about something that we can look at as a committee to, I think, I had Councillor Hills next.
thank you for that I take on board what Andy said about obviously the
Councillor Tony Hills - 1:13:32
big bucks go to big companies and that screws the figures around a little bit.
but surely what we're trying to achieve, I don't know, we can tell me, I'm wrong, is to try and put more back into our community, they pay taxes to us as well, so as a circular economy to a certain degree, but I'd like to say I think I'm very keen on the idea of this, but it comes down to communicating with people. People are very entrenched in their views and the way they see the council might not be the way you see the Council
So we have to keep pushing it, that the whole time through social media and the media to tell them they are open for business and we're supporting them, I think that's a very important aspect to carry it forward, but a lot of work being done by thank you for that.
And I should think you know if you ask Hatchford Council, for example, I've had quite a good working relationship with, they would be quite open, I won't see why it wouldn't be to sharing sort of splits on their figures so we can see how we measure against other local authorities in our patch and that might be used for it might not but obviously something better could we are in a certain degree in a bit of a blind spot but thanks for the work,
in progress
Thanks, Councillor Hills and in fact, if you look at the work that
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:14:55
Preston has done, they have reviewed their work as they've gone along and they've got some suggestions of things that they would do differently if they were starting again, one of them is around communication and making sure that it's communicated to people what the Council is doing in its approach, so I think it's a good point, Councillor Martin, thank you it is an obvious point and a few of us have alluded to this already but just picking up on Andy's
Cllr Alan Martin - 1:15:22
Two big contracts, of course not all of that money is going out of the region and if there's an easy way without getting lost in pointless analysis, if there's an easy way of showing off that money that goes to Veolia, how much of that goes back to presumably all locally employed people missed although employing largely people who live in Folkestone HIV, I think that would be a really good additional bit of analysis to see.
I'm seeing nods, so I think that's taken on board good point, any other comments.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:15:59
So I think collectively we're thanking you for the work that you've done and really appreciate that, and we're asking if we can build on that in terms of the data and the approach and kind of how we might move this forward, and for that then to come back in front of the Committee.
for us to have further discussions about this because I think it is a topic that is close to close to our hearts and gonna be important, moving forward, so I appreciate your time and look forward to discussing it further when you come back to the committee, thank you today.
So we just have to formally receive and note the report, so if I can have a proposer for that Councillor Martin and a secondary Councillor Hills, OK thank you all in favour.
Thank you, that's agreed, and that is our final item for this evening, so thank you all very much and have a good evening.