Finance and Performance Scrutiny Sub-Committee - Tuesday 2 July 2024, 6:00pm

Finance and Performance Scrutiny Sub-Committee
Tuesday, 2nd July 2024 at 6:00pm

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Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Jake Hamilton
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr James Butcher
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr John Wing
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Connor McConville

1 Apologies for absence

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2 Declarations of interest

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Declarations of Interest

3 Annual Performance Report 2023-24 and Draft KPIs 2024-25

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Gavin Edwards
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr James Butcher
Gavin Edwards
Cllr James Butcher
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Laura Davison
Gavin Edwards
Cllr Connor McConville
Gavin Edwards
Cllr Connor McConville
Gavin Edwards
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Alan Martin
Gavin Edwards
Cllr Alan Martin
Gavin Edwards
Cllr Alan Martin
Gavin Edwards
Cllr Alan Martin
Gavin Edwards
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Laura Davison
Gavin Edwards
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Laura Davison
Gavin Edwards
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr James Butcher
Gavin Edwards
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr James Butcher
Gavin Edwards
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Ola Owolabi

4 General Fund Revenue Provisional Outturn 2023/24

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Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Tim Prater
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Ola Owolabi
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr John Wing
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr James Butcher
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr James Butcher
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Ola Owolabi
Cllr James Butcher
Mr Ola Owolabi
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Tim Prater
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Ola Owolabi
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Ola Owolabi
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Ola Owolabi
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Ola Owolabi
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Ola Owolabi
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Ola Owolabi
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Ola Owolabi
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Ola Owolabi
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Ola Owolabi

5 General Fund Capital Provisional Outturn 2023/24

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Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Alan Martin
Mr Ola Owolabi
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr James Butcher
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr James Butcher
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Ola Owolabi
Cllr James Butcher
Mr Ola Owolabi
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Alan Martin
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Ola Owolabi
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Tim Prater
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Ola Owolabi
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Ola Owolabi

6 Housing Revenue and Capital Provisional Outturn 2023/24

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Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Alan Martin
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Ola Owolabi
Mr Ola Owolabi
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Ola Owolabi
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Ola Owolabi
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr James Butcher
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Connor McConville
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Disclaimer: This transcript was automatically generated, so it may contain errors. Please view the webcast to confirm whether the content is accurate.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:00:06

good evening and welcome to the meeting of the Finance and performance Scrutiny Sub-Committee. I would remind Members that we are presently in the pre-election period and therefore please do not make any political statements, references to any candidates or the general election this evening. Thank you for members officers, rather speaking at the meeting. It's important to the microphones are used, so viewers on the webcast and others in the room, making a you and would anyone with a mobile phone police switched to silent as they can be distracting? Thank you

evening everyone.

item number 1 apologies for absence, thank you Chair, we have no

Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:00:43

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:00:46

apologies and number 2 declarations of interest to any members have anything they wish to declare cast budget.

Cllr James Butcher - 0:00:53

declare an interest as Director of opportunity to last year and the

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:00:57

Cllr John Wing - 0:00:57

same few counselling, yes, please not a problem.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:00:59

and

I just.

1 Apologies for absence

2 Declarations of interest

3 Annual Performance Report 2023-24 and Draft KPIs 2024-25

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:01:17

right okay, item number 3 is the the annual performance report for 23 24 and also the draft KPIs for this current year, 24 25 Gavin if you wouldn't mind when we just do the the last, the 23 24, if you want to introduce that and then we'll come back for the for the for the

the provisional KPIs coming coming in, if that's all right.

Gavin Edwards - 0:01:41

thank you, Chair and good evening members, this report sets out how the Council was delivered for local people in the district in 23 24, in relation to the priority is documented in the current corporate plan, creating to more together.

to support the council in delivering.

the apologies documenting the court programme, the Council had a detailed action plan covered a three year period and with that some supporting KPIs the quarterly performance reports.

based on those KPIs have been presented to the Sub-Committee and Cabinet throughout this year to enable members of the Council and the public to scrutinise performance.

the comparable plan is scheduled for review this year with the change in political administration in May of 23 work is now underway, reviewing a new clients to ensure it were fully reflects the priorities of the current administration.

the work on the development plan will be continue for the remainder of the 24 year with full adoption plans for 20 in early 2025.

and I will obviously go on to that section which you alluded to chair back KPIs in a minute the Council's continue to pursue an ambitious Corporate agenda against the backdrop of financial challenges in 23 24 and the annual report sets it set out in Appendix 1 is a testament to the hard work and resilience of teams across the organisation in contributing to the priorities set out in the current corporate plan section 2.2 of the cover report sets out some of those highlights in Appendix 2

sets out the quarter an end of year outturn for 23 24 and where performance has not been achieved, explanations have been sought from the relevant Service, leads and noted within the report, and the NASL were happy to go on to introduce the 2004 25 staff in a moment thanks very much Convener, OK, so Members, if anyone's got any questions,

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:03:22

comments or wants to say anything about the year, that's just been 23 24. Obviously we've seen the quarterly reports of this throughout that year, so this is the this Is the End picture of that year, so open up to members

Councillor Butcher

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:03:38

ma, maybe similar comment as as previously it's just.

Cllr James Butcher - 0:03:43

credible kind of volume of activity really in kind of him, impressive amount of activity.

so I think that's just something worth celebrating how much has been done for the district.

just some questions I wanted to raise. One was about on planning. We haven't got anything, I don't think I'm a right about planning enforcement so that things about planning applications and I wondered I don't know what KPI one would have, but it's it's something that comes up. A lot in my ward is about difficulties around enforcement of planning conditions, and I'll be interested to to understand if we don't have metrics were not and what kind of metrics would help us understand how we're doing on that. So that was one question

another question was about the engagement around the carbon plan given were about to go into another bit of public engagement on the Corporate Plan, be good to understand what the learning is from that, because I don't think we've got a huge remain a response but I'd like to to understand kind of hammy responses we did get and what the the lesson from that was an SDLP MPs know that Kevin

OK.

a question about the group note the to grant schemes, whether we do any follow up on that because they are, there was some really interesting thinking about the rural prosperity fund and the Green business Grants, the applications are so really really interesting, but whether we are, we do any follow up to discover how did those projects actually go, did they do the things I set out to do that kind of thing?

thank you, Councillor Butcher, for those questions with regards to the

Gavin Edwards - 0:05:27

first one on planning enforcement, I will obviously check with the planning team or Matt with regards to with regards to the the enforcement and KPIs around that, and I think actually, as I go into the next section around the point I was going to make about being a transitional year on that for KPIs.

obviously the new Corporate Plan. You'll be something that we can make note of to him to see where we conclude on that, but I'll when we get to that part of the discussion, I'm happy to expand a little bit more on that, but I will take them might noted that carbon lonely again. I don't have any information directly to handle that, but I will speak to the appropriate officers with regards to the carbon action Plan learning and seeing if there's anything around that that can be integrated into the into the future monitoring around that and obviously, on the grant schemes. I would assume there will be some monitoring of follow up on the project schemes, but to find out the detail and that I would have to speak to the Regeneration Team Ireland beginning. I'm very happy to go back and provide those wider responses to those questions to this committee. Yeah, Thanksgiving, I'm just on on that count the carbon plan engagement process. There have been issued in the actual figures of

Cllr James Butcher - 0:06:33

how many people responded and?

what did they say, what are the themes that came out of it?

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:06:46

I think Councillor Butcher, any other Councillors, this talk about the 23 24 reboot Councillor Davidson, thank you I mean I'd echo what

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:06:54

Councillor but she says in terms of the obviously the breadth of work that that's been taking place, I suppose if I look at the sort of outcome at the end of the year one section in which there are quite a lot of red crosses is the housing.

section homes in infrastructure, so I suppose.

my question really is within the report, it does give an explanation as to why some of these targets haven't been hit, for example.

in it trying not to house people in bed and breakfast, the scale of the temporary accommodation, the number of long-term empty homes brought back into use, and and so on.

do we are all along with the explanation about why these things might be the case, do we have sort of action plans to try and address that as part of this or could die, can we add things into the report that if people are interested in looking at this would reflect the steps that are being taken where it hasn't been reached?

thank you for your comments on that Councillor Dobson regards to

Gavin Edwards - 0:07:57

obviously specific action plans, I would obviously speak to my colleagues in housing thing with regards to that, and obviously we can take away the comments that you've noted there and I might aware at home and have a look into that but yeah I will specifically follow up on the point around action plans as well.

and provide response.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:08:18

thank Councillor Dowson, anyone else have anything they wish to raise on the 23 24 report.

couple of things for myself.

obviously we didn't get the we didn't have the quarter three figures when because obviously they come like that light for recycling.

so it is quite shocking really to see.

that it was quite a significant dip.

you know, the whole Donald trend of the year is being been going down just hard to understand really, but you know the the quarter, 3 figure is is, is quite is quite is quite low, so I don't know if there was any more information that had come out no if any any trends identified or any reasons why why?

KCC was which would see such low levels. Thank you, Chair, will now I

Gavin Edwards - 0:09:15

will have some conversations with the Waste Services Manager with regards to the actual dip and that obviously garden recycling is obviously comprised of, obviously household waste, as well as the garden collection service as well, and I do know from previous reports so I brought there can be or an impact with regards to sometimes on on the garden waste as well, but we actually get specifics on that. I will go back and have a conversation with the the way, services management and provide a response to the Committee on that. OK, thank

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:09:44

you, and if you could please share with the Committee the quarter, four figures wants to come out, because obviously this will be the last time we sort of see this. This report for the year so

and

the thing we've been talking about all year when it comes to to to these reports, I guess, is our sort of transfer, transparent, stable and accountable section of of the report and data breaches and we're still seeing.

and I read read, read crosses there so and it's quite similar to the wording slightly changes, but that is largely down to human error and there's always gonna be human error so.

it'll be interesting, perhaps we talked about that again, and it in him in are met in terms of what the thoughts are moving forward in the next year with with some of these KPIs, and maybe it may be the target set around them, but the recycling was the main one in the in the current in the current year's report. If no Council is there anything else, then we'll look at the proposed KPIs for for 24 25 Kevin thanks.

Gavin Edwards - 0:10:51

Thank you Chair, and just to continue on that point on the the KPIs for 2004 25. So we have said, obviously, to ensure that the Finance and performance Sub Committee and Cabinet continue to receive reports. Whilst a new corporate plan is being developed, the 24 25 years is considered a transitional gave. The KPIs. The 23 24 List, has been reviewed and the majority of the indicators will remain the same for 2004 25, albeit with some minor alterations this will, however, continue to assure we do have some baseline, where possible, to provide, within the financial years of effort, re-profiled, poor performance reporting.

some Members into a new plan is developed and supporting KPIs can be agreed and formally adopted.

and basically Yazidis 56 we've proposed for 24 25, and we've set that out in appendix 4 for completeness and transparency and in Appendix 3 we've set out the changes to their removal was in additions in the cover report but as I've said before is as a transitional year we wanted to bring something back as, as you mentioned Chair at last time round when we were we were here in March we have done that but, as I say, to choose a transitional year and once we have an idea of where the corporate plan goes in the priorities again as well,

we can take that from there, but I'm happy to expand or anything on that.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:12:08

thank you very much, so do any Councillors have any questions or comments regarding Councillor Morgan?

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:12:17

yeah, thank you very much, I've got three, actually, the first one is right at the top of the KPIs, there's one about building new priority parks, which leaps out out to be as one that's quite narrow and very specific, and it strikes me there's a number of things we would do to show positive community leadership and and building 1 1 Park doesn't feel like it that beacon of activity, but there's lots of other stuff that goes on, I think on the Marsh I'm not entirely sure we've got any priority

parks

but there are parks there, the arm are maintained and there are other things that are done on a similar themes. I'm just curious why we've got that particular KPI Deputy governor addressed them on foot yeah, of course thank you, Councillor Martin, that's in there because there was a reference in the current action plan to do with priority play

Gavin Edwards - 0:13:08

areas in there, so that's where that one that's come about and it is set out within that documents, so that's why it's within their and the agreement was one a year obviously based on funding arrangements

and there's nothing else that we want to report album in that in that

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:13:26

film.

I'm obviously happy to go back and have those conversations again with

Gavin Edwards - 0:13:33

with the with the relevant officers on that, but at the time when that was agreed, that was in the action plan that was what was was was set around, that particular action around the privacy play areas with within it and within the action plan.

OK, thank thank you and in my my other two or are linked where quite a

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:13:50

long discussion about these, when we last looked at the KPIs which around the enforcement notices and I see that's one of the areas where you've made some changes in the conversation we were having before is that the KPIs were a little bit counterintuitive so if you have if you meet your target of number of enforcement notices issued is out good thing or or or a bad thing, etc.

it seems like the the main where we way we've dealt with, that is actually to remove the target, and I was just wondering whether it's possible, without overcomplicating at whether we can almost put a bit more information in there, so I was thinking, for instance, with enforcement notices. I'd actually be quite keen to see how many how many things reported to start off with and then to look at whether or not they've been dealt with. So I think in the commentary you talk about the fact that and a lot of things are dealt with informally rather than formally, I'd actually quite like to see that flow, so what's been reported, what was dealt with informally formally when notices were given was the problem, actually then, subsequently,

resolved, and I think if you I appreciate there's a lot there, but I think it's only by doing something like that you're actually gonna get a really clear picture and obviously if you're looking at number of cases reported is quite clearly if the number of cases reported goes down, that's maybe or maybe a good thing and then on the enforcement side if you're a number of notices is is going up, that's that's may be a good thing as well, but it just gives you a better sense of what's what's actually happening.

thank you for your comments on that again. Councillor Martin, Andrew,

Gavin Edwards - 0:15:28

yes, we, we have remove some of the targets, as you'll see in in the list, nothing party that as well with we will give some more breakdowns and narrative in the reports as well to support that. I think it's important we keep them there to give an idea of the level in the volume, and I take the note the point about the confusion on the targets there. So we have taken it out, we are going to try and provide a bit more narrative around each one, as you say, so it will flow from that yeah, that's the thing. This is what we would want to do with that as well, and we take that on board

great thank you, and then I've got one more, it's kind of linked

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:16:01

because it's another enforcement thing, but it's it's my old beef around fly tipping.

so again, I'd quite like to see not just a focus in on the number the number of cases on public land, so I'd like to see the total number of cases reported and to see what the split is between public and private land, and I think that's really important because the Council doesn't do anything to clear up what's on private land but the residents still see it and because the Council doesn't,

clear it up.

it often sits there for longer, but it's still an issue as far as people have concerns in the community, so I'd like to see number of cases reported split by public and private, I'd also like to see if it's possible something around how quickly it's dealt with when it's on private private land just to put a bit more transparency.

around that, I also wondered.

whether we could do a little bit more around enforcement because they, I think, that in the current year we it says that we

we pursued one case and we were successful in 100% of cases, I'm quite curious to see a little bit more around, I guess that enforcement picture, so what I don't know can we categorise why we have why we've only pursued one case out of all of those ones that were identified, for instance,

again, thank you for those those comments again, Councillor Morton

Gavin Edwards - 0:17:31

lies what I will do with those is, I will speak to the Environmental Protection Manager on that, because there are some, there are some points there that I'll be able to go through with her and discuss that and see how we can integrate those and whether those stats and things are available and that breakdown is available that we could try and integrate into future reporting on that, but I've made a note down what I will speak to her on that and see what we can go without.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:17:55

Councillor Dobson.

yeah, thank you Chair, one of my points, I think, is kind of similar

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:18:00

to Councillor Martin, which is about the proposed new.

homeless measure duties closed as homeless prevented or relieved, I think in the existing.

target, you got some sense of the relationship between the number of requests that were coming in and what then happened, but I I, I think you'll lose that in this measure, so in a similar way can can we have a flow through of the number of approaches how they then kind of classified if you like and what then happens.

once that action is taken, what the results of that are, I think that would that would give a much clearer picture of the scale of what were dealing with.

and then the other ones I just wanted to have a bit more clarity about, so there are two where the numbers have changed.

so the long-term empty homes brought back into use has gone down from 70 to 50, what's the thinking behind that and the number of private sector homes improved as a result of intervention by the council has gone up from 200 to 300 again, what what's the kind of rationale behind that?

I would obviously have to speak on the specifics, but obviously long

Gavin Edwards - 0:19:20

term I was has obviously done through the KCC initiative and it's obviously based on the on the on the supply of homes. I will find out the specifics from the Housing Strategic Housing lead on that and again I will provide a a full crop comment on the risk to the Committee on that and again with the with the team, with the private sector housing that was obviously set with them within what they felt was the target that they do that they could make, but in terms of the background of the specifics around the resourcing to do with that and if that is to do with the resourcing why they felt there was more stretching, I will have to have those further conversations and obviously I will provide that common to the Committee on that.

I just come back on that.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:19:58

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:20:02

yes, I mean, obviously it's positive to see a higher target in terms of interventions on the empty properties, one where it's gone down and just want it, do we have information and data about how many empty properties there are, so that we have a sense of what that that scale is and if if the reduction is due to reduction in resources or something like that is is that is that why a decision has been taken it would just be interesting to know what the background to that is.

and then I think I just had one more, which was about the market and events in the town centre, number of pilot events to inform market improvement programme and town centre operating model.

I'm just wondering whether that could be a bit more useful as a an indicator, not just about the number of events that take place, but you know the value of those events or some way of measuring that which is going to give us more information thanks. OK, thank you for the comments on Councillor Davidson, with regards. Obviously, to be empty

Gavin Edwards - 0:21:03

homes and the numbers of HBOS, I believe up as we will. We will somewhere have those information, empty properties across the district, and I will speak to the relevant officers with regards to back position and obviously noting the points about having a bit more clarity around the homelessness KPI that we're riding in having that context there as well, we will try to make sure that we will have that in the report to give as much narrative as possible to support that to give that information. So those comments are noted on that and again, with the the one be mentioned 3D, with the bipolar events, I will take those comments on board and and speak to the regeneration lead on that and see if there's anything, we can do to try, and

explained that a little bit around that.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:21:45

any other Members, Councillor Booth, Jonathan working, nothing similar

Cllr James Butcher - 0:21:51

theme is it's I guess, trying to get to a point where the the KPI tells us about outcomes rather than activity, which isn't always easy, but if we look at ASP enforcement action taken so would you have something there about activity but I guess we also need to know how we're doing on anti-social behaviour.

as part of that, and I guess that gets reported to the Community Safety Partnership.

but maybe it's a bit of a theme with things like community safety is the focus tends to be an activity rather than outcome, and I know it's kind of hard to do that sometimes, but activities and always a very good proxy for knowing whether will make a difference and savoury street litter, we've got a measure, there were surveying a selection streets around the district and so we can get some reassurance that all the activity around,

emptying litter bins and street cleaning is having the desired effect, and it's whether the activity that's having the desired effect, that's the key question to me, because, as well as we could be planning lots of resources, time and effort into inactivity, without necessarily making a difference, we want to make, I appreciate it is often really really hard to do that with these kinds of issues were

I mean, for example, with the with the kind of littering and dog control once.

well, I guess it's the same points in that year just had we know that's making a difference.

thank you, Councillor, British, and obviously I note your point so

Gavin Edwards - 0:23:19

again on on that and I think just to say more widely as the final Corporate Plan comes about and understand, obviously the working member working groups are in progress as well. There will be a stage where, once we get an idea of what the priorities wannabe from that corporate plan, but we will get an idea of myself and my colleagues about how we can then help shape those KPIs that you want to see come from it and I think that's where we get because as I say it will be up, there will be a new plan in the sense and will make sure that we can get the KPIs that you want to support around those privacy, so so it fits with those the year there will be that discussion as well around that when we get to that

in that position later in the year, so that's why, as I said before, it's it's sort of a transitional year is to keep something, as we say, keeps him monitoring here at the moment, but then, as we say as we move into it, we will say had no new measurements that will be based on the priorities from the Corporate Plan that you that you want to say.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:24:14

hitting else, Councillor John.

fully formed thought I suppose, but it's says we got a lot of KPIs in

Cllr James Butcher - 0:24:23

here and you almost need sort of key performance indicators, or if, at a glance he wants, no, are we doing better last year than better this year than last year as a Council we might take a bit of time to figure out, I guess there's a difference between what goes in the Corporate Plan.

we shouldn't have the corporate plan is gonna mentioned littering, but we're gonna have a KPI in a presumably that you know there's something about those big developmental things were wanting to do and the kind of things that for residents they know are you talking about the fly tipping that might not be in the Corporate Plan, but clearly it matters a lot of people and I guess it's just trying to keep an eye on what are we trying to achieve through the corporate plan, but also what really matters to people in the quality of their environment and feeling like they are getting value for money from their council tax. Sorry, that's not very over nil formed thoughts and that not all

Gavin Edwards - 0:25:19

bazaars. I note the points on that, but we were, as I say once we get to that position with the with the new corporate plan and a separate their discussion on on on KPIs around that I suppose I am very happy to speak to my colleagues on that point about the what you mentioned about making sure delivering of value for money.

as you know, having that conversation and seeing if there is anything near future that could be could be done around that, but I think the point is at the beginning, now we will, once we have the corporate plan and once we get that and we can obviously shape those strategic KPIs that will support that and then obviously yeah, that would be something we can look at moving forward as well.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:25:56

Councillor isn't going to come back and yeah, I mean you could have a

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:25:59

kind of dashboard of dashboard, couldn't you where you just have, like the number of beds, the number of greens, the number of yellow is from the previous year and this year which would be a very quick snapshot fairly crude but you know would give an indication.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:26:14

any more.

not much from myself and we appreciate you know the sort of a transitional year, so not much is going to change, I mean that the ones that are being removed largely mostly makes sense, but

firstly, if we had the resource, then there's a couple there that I'd like to highlight ceased stable.

obviously don't have the resource, yet so hopefully in the new corporate plan that there might be some more focus on on community and community involvement and engagement.

but I just echo Councillor Davies, this point and you know if we are bringing in for duties for four prevented and believed not to bundle them as one has 1% and to keep her.

keep the prevent percentage of total approaches and the relief I mean, it'd be good to have the relief figure, but as long as that separated, so we can clearly see both both them both figures within within that new KPI, I think that'll I think that will work better as long as is kept separate.

so obviously that the paper before you is obviously the Cabinet paper so not approving those recommendations, but we we happy to receive and note.

the report.

proposed second.

just to keep someone happy.

okay.

right thank you very much, Gavin.

so we move on now to agenda item 4.

she is the general fund revenue outturn for 23 24 site snapshot over the year just gone and to introduce it is Oleh thank you.

4 General Fund Revenue Provisional Outturn 2023/24

Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:28:06

dear report in front of few summarises where we are in terms of 23 24 General Fund, provisional outturn.

the figure in front of is currently a professional because his draft and it will be subject to audit, so after the audit then it will be finalised, however, do reports you've agreed to the Cabinet on the 17th of July for approval as well, just to put it in context,

this cancer continue to walks in an exceptionally challenging financial environment.

we are not immune in terms of what is going on interest rates, inflation, economic uncertainty, but what we've been able to do is to continue to take prompt actions in addressing the financier issue, I shifted better sustainable financial positions and what continue in terms of developing and our transformation ideas.

section 2 of the report detail where we are in terms of 23 24.

when the original budget for 23 24 was approved.

it was then anticipated that the budget will be taking 1.7 8 6 from reserves to be able to balance the budget, however, at the end of the financial year 31st of March 2024, these cancer achieved an underspend of 1.7 2 4

to spend that is detailed clearly within table 1, so one is showing the approved use of general fund balances of 1 7 8 6 and the provisional General Fund underspend of 1 7 2 4, which shows a net effect of 62,000 pounds and what damning is that while they are original plan is to take 1.7 from reserves, we are only going to take 62 K from reserved for, I'd I'd taken one point several million and we've been able to achieve that due today.

the amount of underspend up we are shift.

Chubut Sue on page 54 actually detailed how we arrived at that 1.7 2 for the first column is the description in terms of services, second column is the approved budget, and you could see the last figure there is the 1 7 8 6 which we are supposed to be taken from general fund balances.

column 3 is the actual.

column 4 is the various wishes the ones able to afford that our have just mentioned Q3 is mainly there for comparison purpose during Q3, our projection was for already about 58, Kay in terms of underspent, however, with a shift is significant amount of money that surpasses that.

there are one or two areas that I need to bring your attention, so we didn't able to when we look at the Sub total in terms of Ed of services.

they actually achieved 1 point to in terms of Honda's me, however, as we didn't at 1.00 point, so there is a provisional carry forward request of 1.1 of 1 point for which will be carried forward, I'll come back to that in a minute,

it's good to take note of the interest payable and similar charges as well, our original budget was 2.5 million, however we are able to as to Spain, seeks 132 K, which has resulted in a significant 1.8 million underspent, and the main reason for that which I'm going to touch on under the Capital Programme is a significant proportion of our capital programme supposed to be financed from funded through borrowing.

where we are now have been asleep pages underspend within capital programme, we just do need to borrow much.

because we don't need to borrow much that as impact our revenue for not spending the money that we have set aside to surface those borrowing need.

and not online is to do with the capital expenditure fund fund financed from revenue during the original budget were thinking of financing capital programme to the tune of 2 point for 8 million.

the actual was actually a 1 point for Amelia

of which we have significant underspend of 1 0 7 8, so you could see clearly how we achieved, or are we arrived at 1.00 point, several to four on the spin, and we liked so points out that the 1 7 2 4 is net of the carry forward request of 1.1 4 1 which I will touch on later.

section paragraph 2.1 4 of the of the report ditto our current level of reserves.

it's.

in terms of earmarked reserves, we are talking about 12.0 million and in terms of general fund reserves we are talking about 5.5 million, and when you look at the General Fund Reserve you can see the 1.7 2 for coming in and a 1.7 8 CC going out effective flare with go roughly 17.6 million in reserves.

paragraph 2.1 9 of the report focused on the budget, carry-forward request

it's not unusual to carry forward a budgeted in this financial year what we have got, we didn't the budget government grants, and some of this government grant are ring fenced to be spent on specific task or specific initiatives or specific activities.

even by the end of the year we are unable to fool is paying dues money, then we can carry them for, because that is why they are ring fenced, we are not allowed to spend them on stomped on and it's in Earth, so this has been shared with CCSC for consideration both sexual 1 5 1 Officer, and CLSA actually had a command that this needs to be carried forward into 24 25.

attached to this report is to paint is a wish list, all the revenue variation of over 40 care and Appendix B wish at least the proposed budget carry forward of 1.1 for our might be to stop there and take questions, thank you.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:35:37

thank you Allah and Councillor Procter, do you just want to say a quick word on the on the papers were?

Cllr Tim Prater - 0:35:43

thank you, yeah, I'll just go through a couple of edited highlights, as far as I say.

the budget that we were left for last year effectively required that we were gonna take just under 1.8 million pounds from reserves in order to fund our budget. What this is saying is that instead of taking 1.8 million pounds from a budget, we have saved 1.7 2 4 million of that, so we're taking out a very tiny amount of 60 something thousand pounds which, when you say it rapidly, actually, if it is a small amount compared to this budget but obviously 60,000 pounds and 6,000 beds, but we have moved from a position whereby we were going to have 1.8 million pounds less than we did have to a position whereby we've got 60,000 pounds less than we have

it is a massive transformation in the year in the first year of this administration from the budget that we will left and the budget would be delivered, and I think that the council has got as done incredibly well in order to achieve that that said, sorry the recommendations that that's what the recommendation 3 effectively as noting there is that that 1.74 million pounds unfortunately it's not that we're 1.7 point to 4 million pounds richer it means that we're not 1.8 billion pounds poorer.

it's it's just that we projected, that we are going to spend that money, and we didn't due to the work of the Council so well done for that. The carry forwards as owner mentioned are where things have been Emma, where we've got money, empathy, specific things and where those be name at 1.00 point that I would like to bring forward, though, is that, as you know, because you've enjoyed those reports throughout the course of the year, we have monitoring, at the end of quarter 1 quarter 2 quarter 3, which gives us a projected outturn on the year that should be giving us some certainty. In some, it should be a

giving us some certainty of where we're going to add to 7 at the end of the year, as others said, at the end of quarter three we projected that we're gonna have an underspend of 150, something thousand pounds that sounded OK and then we're telling you now that you've got an underspend of 1.7 2 4 million pounds now, it's a good surprise, but I don't like surprises at all. Actually, if we knew it was going to be like that, we should have been reporting that early and we should be picking him at an earlier

are being through this in some detail at up, I think, one of the easiest ways appointing this if I can point you Appendix II airport Page 3.

there's a section in there which shadows one of the moves that movements that owners just out brought up on interest, payable and similar charges, so you've got technical and funding budgets the block at the bottom of that page appendix 2, page 3.

appendix sorry a page 3.

sorry, I I've.

I'm viewing it of the website reports at which are separate as opposed to the ones I think, great report that you've been given.

at Laura is pointing at it.

that's the one, thank you.

at 63, Sandra, technical and funding budgets. There you can see the top line of that interest, payable and similar charges. The approved budget said that we were going to be spending 2.5 million pounds on interest, the quarter 3 projected outturn projected that we're going to be spending 1.9 million pounds on interest. Actually we spent 632,000 pounds on interest. Now, that's exactly as has been explained. We didn't borrow 50 million pounds to stop, for instance, pride, and we didn't borrow lots of money to start or to pull. Therefore we haven't borrowed that money and therefore were not pay. My interest

perfectly perfectly logical reason why not, but actually at the end of quarter three, we should see more of that coming, our projection should have included a bit more of that in my view, and indeed in the view of Lydia who have who have spoken to on this as well, we are going to work to try and make sure that we tighten that quarterly reporting and where some of those figures,

that we could see a movement coming, that we can include a bit more of that movement in those reports so that the so that when we get to a quarter 3, projected outturn, we've all got more confidence that the, and that's gonna be roughly there's gonna be internet, there's going to be late, government grants arriving, there's gonna be bits of money which come in and go out to the Council that the current year there will be movement from the quarter 3 projection for the end of the year, but it shouldn't be massive and it shouldn't be massive for things that, for instance, interest payable. We could have guessed by the end of quarter three, but that number was going to be a bit closer to 632 thousand pounds than it was 1.9 million pounds and I think we can get that a bit tidier

so that was that was one thing I said it's a discussion had been having with Lydia over video and Ola over recent.

weeks, and we're all very focused on making sure that we can do that clear better.

but I said literally in that line you can see a movement there of between the quarter 3 projected outturn 1.9 million pounds in provisional outturn 632,000 pounds, so at 1.00.3000000 pound movement in that light, I did we go from 500,000 pounds projected quarter three outturn 2 1.7 million pounds that's almost all of it in one easy number that,

so we're going to try and get better.

at containing those lines within the the court as the quarter projections, but I think the thing to come back to is to say what a remarkable job of the council has done here in moving from a deficit budget of 1.8 million pounds to one that is almost almost balanced for the year and rolls forward all of the 1 point one for 1 million pounds of

earmarked spend into next year, so that is actually spent on the projects for which it was given, so that was I, I just wanted to say that on and apologise from my point of view for the quarter 3 projection outcomes not being as good as they should have been in my view and my promise that we're going to try and get them a bit better for next season were so we are happy that there are a bit more robust on that.

and

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:42:23

thank you, Councillor radar.

Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:42:28

thank you, Councillor operator, I begin, I think Councillor operator is the and represent right nobody likes surprises.

during Q3, I'm sure we shall have done a better job in terms of projects in what is highly unlikely going to happen at the end of Q4, we have taken this on board and have been having discussions with might seem to actually ensure that right from Q1 there is a clear indication of where we might be is a projected outturn and I believe we can do better, but my team has got that message. Thank you,

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:43:01

Councillor operator, thank you. Thank you are right, opening up to members for questions or comments or thoughts, Councillor wing,

Cllr John Wing - 0:43:15

thank you Chair on coming on to the separated parent, then I agree that things are quarter pulled, it was beaten a fluid situation. I don't know how you could like no, that that was going to happen, and I agree that sometimes you must love these, but of course it could happen your way as well. It could go up, I mean at 1.00 time, hopefully in future, but I don't know when it's going to be or to pull will rear its head again and we would need to borrow the money then, so we must be aware of both ways. It's just no problem, but I would like to thank all the hard work the team have done. I now realise been re-elected what situation we, we'd now, and it's a lot more healthy, but I think we must be aware there's news ignores in their favour at 1.00 point in the future. It will go the other way, but sometimes competing things we hadn't got. We've got Christopher warm afraid, but well done.

I think Councillor, when we other Councillors.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:44:08

Councillor budget.

I think it's a sort of specific issue that highlights the larger

Cllr James Butcher - 0:44:15

sheets I'm looking at on page 57 of the pdf review of earmarked reserves.

said a bit about the climate change reserve.

so fingers on the nose in order in governance, I asked about sorry to have an explanation of what had been spent, so that's back on the 14th of May and one road to Lydia to see how it was going, I was told I get it by the end of the month I haven't had it by the end of the month.

the Councillor Scotland has asked a similar question hasn't as the answer.

and I'm sure we get the answer and I know there's all sorts of reasons why that hasn't been forthcoming.

but what it illuminates is what I've wow undisc misspeak myself, what feels really difficult is teams highlighted an issue that's kind of right in there, but I hadn't kind of particularly spotted that an issue says very helpful to have it explained.

so I guess, is how do we get to do our jobs as?

I'm not quite sure you know, we know we're part of scrutiny if we have these very dense reports that it's not always easy to see what the key issues are and when we do our something vanishing our response to it.

and it rolls on and it rolls on, sorry that and that's my so, I suppose my specific question is, when will I get an answer to the question asked on the 14th of May?

so I guess there's a question from a and a general question. I don't think it's an answer to hear, but it just concerns me that we were all spending a lot of time, reading staff and asking questions. Are we actually doing the job that we meant to be doing, which is reassuring people out there that, yes, the that the financial situation is as his is as it is presented presumably were part of the processes scrutinised and that I'm not sure I'm I'm actually able to do that and then inform Wayne it's a point of made, I think, since

since a year ago, and I am, I don't feel much further forward with it.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:46:21

thank you, Councillor check, how we're second part, and if you have a I'll see, if I can Horringer some more.

training or, if not so much training and

in the dull sense of the word, maybe maybe more in-depth discussions.

Cllr James Butcher - 0:46:37

we cannot make it go through that some older generally is that we have to Treasury Management, that's not what I'd call that isn't training and we get a lot of that, which is someone talking him through a lengthy PowerPoint, and it's my day job and if I read train like that I wouldn't have a day job that isn't training.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:46:58

so it's got to be done differently and maybe a discussions IT yeah and although will it be possible to get a breakdown of the 1.0 8 2 million that's gone out of the climate change reserve in the past year.

Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:47:14

again, my sociologist control Russia, this is something that I am aware of, I will be discussing their with Lydia tomorrow, I'm sure I've seen that information it has been done with try and get it to you indigenous two days, but apologies for the not responding as quickly as possible.

there's two things, I think there's a meeting in the diary with

Cllr James Butcher - 0:47:37

Councillor Scotland, so I guess that that's the kind of heart-stopper which the information needs to be available.

I think it's a couple of things, one is, I don't really understand, I mean I get the bit about the delay to Councillor all of that the kind of alarms me if it's that hard to figure out what we'd spend money on if it if it's that onerous that it can't be done over this period of time that really worries me because then how come that information isn't very readily available and the second point is won a better care.

if I've asked a question in order in governance.

is it really for me, then to chase up when I don't get it and then to come back here should not there'll be some a bit more proactive to say, Councillor John, I know you ask this question and we're a bit delayed because because I think what happens otherwise, is that just things go off our radar? I've talked about having a tracking system, so we know the issues are expecting to get back again. I think that was probably akin. We've been talking about that for years that hasn't happened, so just our process for keeping track of what are we asking about, what do we need to know, are we getting the follow up? Feels just a little bit ragged to me

I think again I'll come back to say up my sociologists, or will get

Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:48:51

this information in terms of climate change reserve break down to you, I am not going to say, is it difficult information to get the information is there, I think I've seen it I would create with Lydia are we get that information to you as soon as possible?

I'm going to offer me two-tier, tomorrow I might be able to evolution which is tomorrow, thank you.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:49:13

thank you, Councillor Booth, constipation yeah, I may not be interested to see the Out film on that, as far as I don't know, if it

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:49:18

could be shared more generally, but also the use of the the other reserves amid particularly interested in the homeless as prevention and economic development, and because I'm assuming we we can't do anything about the fact that we we've taken the money from those reserves as part of the process, but it would be useful to know what what the result of that those decisions were.

sorry, did you want to come in?

on that one, specifically, the outcome was homelessness prevention, it

Cllr Tim Prater - 0:49:53

was a ring-fenced grant in order to spend on the prevention of homelessness, and that's what it was spent on, so it spent in year on doing its job, so that's that's what it was put therefore necessarily expect. Thank you for clarifying that I think I just had one other

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:50:07

question which was what is the Planning Supersport?

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:50:18

so, in the carry forwards for for Planning 100,004 4, Planning super squad, which which sounds it as excellent.

Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:50:34

played the use of name, my understanding is that this is a ground that was provided to punish services in 2023 23 24 that, if not been able to call a meeting 23 24 and is to be committed 24 25, I will make sure I care that with dwellings in terms of what we call a SuperSport, but I'm sure is to do with

get some more resources should be able to deal with all those outstanding planning queries.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:51:03

did you say that was a central government grant, yes, OK?

Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:51:08

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:51:10

any any other any other members have anything I wish to look at a race, a few things from herself I mean.

so picking up with with him, Tim left off.

obviously the interest dangerous payable OK, we're not, we're not borrowing, so we're not, we're not, we're not paying that sort of makes sense.

the other, the other side of the coin, the interested investment income.

we obviously would not would not realise that I am the part of the the explanation talks about the IBA scheme and an opportunity, and yet that makes sense, because I know that was delayed, but I mean part of it talks about Ullapool and and says the re-phasing of the ought to pool funding they had not yet started to repay the loan element of their funding back to the Council.

I don't see than being able to repay any money back to the Council for for for some time, so I don't know what the

again it goes, maybe it goes back to what was the rationale in assuming that that that money was, even if, even from year of the start of the year, I knew categorically that there was no money going to be paid, so what was the thinking in including that in in the figures from from the start of the year?

Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:52:33

I'll pick that up thanks so much for your questions, what we've got is a projection in terms of we are giving this, we are giving this money out and the expectation is that this amount of interests are it will be coming our way of. Fortunately, some of them might not be realised based on what is happening, not lots of poor, which means we just need to keep on our Queen they bought, because we've got its between revenue if we definitely outfits input of abuse online and that is why we've got them in that.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:53:04

thank you, and in this current financial year in terms of our interest and investment income, are we expecting or audible park to be repaying us anything in terms of in terms of interest?

Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:53:20

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:53:21

because I'll be very surprised if that what that happens in weeks 12

Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:53:22

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:53:24

Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:53:25

months, we didn't do re-profile programme, we thought up for, I believe we've got on our mouths within the interest, receivable in 2004 25, but I haven't got if we go in front of me almost is that it might not be as

largest while we've going 23 24, but I believe with great figure in there.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:53:46

maybe something we can look at them in when we get the quarter one

Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:53:47

confirmed of of of of this coming year.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:53:53

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:53:56

in the earmarked reserves.

so one that, hopefully all members should be reasonably aware of it was quite a contentious, Full Council meeting when we created the 1.5 million Transformation Fund, and obviously it's saying here that, with only spent 344,000 of the 1.5 million to date, or at least within this financial year, I was under needs to understanding you know with all the voluntary redundancies or not and the transformation work to date that that number should have been much higher, so I guess,

be quite good to know what that money is as gone out on, and you know, I've looked through some of the some of the variances there's mentions of.

of redundancy and things in those various different sort of headline budgets, so at the individual service budgets covering the costs part of the cost of the transformation fund when we specifically set up this reserve to do just that.

Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:55:09

perfect thank you, sir, are quickly coming back to the last question.

all Judy Dalton says all the patients trail will be charged directly to services, that is the right accountancy, however, because we know we've got it transformational reserves, that money will be moved back, using our butts online, so on on page 54 where we have moved nature reserves so that 2.8 million include some of this transformation is audits will be using and,

coming back to the transformation is offers were the 1.5 million was agreed very late last year, and the expectation is for this to cut, to cover council wide changes including staffing review ICT, digital improvement premises, assets and contracture is to review.

some of those review we actually be happening this year going forward because we've only got a few months in 2003 24 will not be able to do this, so some of this money was too big would still be committed, however, what we spend so far is 3 around 43,000 of wish.

1 78 released a voluntary redundancies and 1 6 1 1 6 5, relates to pension stray.

we are still aspect seemed to pay more on the pension strain. Why? During the redundancies and pigment of patients, train pension strain invoices will be coming from Kent County Council by as Socratic 1st of March. We've still got our stand impairment, maybe we have already simply Eve was from them, so we've not been able to pay this money because we've got out with injuries within our reserves. That commitment would be honoured in 25 2025 25, but I will said that there is to order areas including ICT and Digital improvement wish on represents show would be happening in 24 25. I can see that 1.5 coming down in dispatching in this financial year. Thank you. Thank you for that

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:57:35

I was main thing for me on this any other anything else.

again, this is the the Cabinet reports so that the recommendations with regards to the carry forwards and and all that is for the Cabinet report, but we are just to receive and note, and hopefully Cabinet will take on some of our comments.

are we happy to receive and note District 1 when favour?

right, thank you OK, so we move on, so that was the general fund we move on now, I believe, to the

the capital funds, so the general fund capital programme for 23 24.

Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:58:20

thank you share the report in front of few summarises the where we had with Capital Programme for 23 24 Josie clear difference between the previous report, we should strive any on capital.

the main difference is that, with revenue, Dalmeny or dietary sources is only for 12 months.

capital, deciding, projets or resources that we are going to be cognitive for over 12 months, a year, two years, three years or five years.

for 23 24 hour.

approved budgets in terms of plant commitments.

5 General Fund Capital Provisional Outturn 2023/24

it was 24.2 million, of which we are able to commit 15.8 million a variance of 8.4 million.

however, the difference related to capital programme is that these are the project he the as tactic, has not been completed or are not seeking of Sodha, for it should be done another year because its capital programme, all this money, would be rolled forward into future years so it was a commitment that we are going to lose.

when you look at pigs', the 8 on that 2.1, that's able provide view with analysis of where, within services those money has been spent, and below that we have the capital funding Capital Financing, do we need to know that we need to have a balance funding of capital programme so in terms of financing doctors to come from capital, grant estimate contributions, Capital Receipts Revenue borrowing tends to be the last resort.

looking at the projection for borrowing our expectation at the beginning of the financial year is to borrow 12.8 million, we actually borrow only 9.30 million, and that is the reason why we have this significant onto Spain when we look at our revenue later. Section 2.2 of the report provided details about which areas that has led into all those variances that include cost protections.

public toilet enhancement. Princess Parade, Little Bay begins, would some of these variances of some of this programme will be? There are ongoing programme that would be heroic, that will carry on with in 2004 25. Some of them might be nearly completion and due to completed in 2004 25, but none of those money will be sacrifice for anything. So were mainly going to reduce forward Section 3 of the approach of the report

tried to provide you with analysis of the breakdown of the

those project that has been financed through borrowing.

because drive caused park.

changing places toilet the biggest when there is also poor, wished everybody's aware of.

in total, that is my point, 3 million, which is what has really put out within the within the report.

I think we attached the did breakdown in terms of those 8.3 million ascertained is one to your report on page 75, I was taught there and I'm happy to take questions, thank you.

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:02:16

thank you, Allah, OK, so I open it up to members, to any members have anything I wish to raise Councillor Martin.

thank you.

Cllr Alan Martin - 1:02:26

I was just curious, I've not seen these reports over previous years, so I don't know the extent to which is this is typical.

it's just the amount of re-profiling going on, so when you look at that variance of of 8 million, it is pretty much all way, all comes from re-profiling, which is either big projects seemingly kicked down the road, or when you when you look further into the report there's a an enormous amount of the word slippage.

and so it seems to me that it's not necessarily good accounting that's giving us that variance, so it's just the fact that we're not doing anything and what we are doing, we're doing very slowly, which I think is a really bad or really bad looks I'm just keen for you just speak a little bit about that.

thank you.

Mr Ola Owolabi - 1:03:17

again, when yes, I literally we used, it was the biggest again, which is about moving money from one year to the order. However, each of those projects there are so many factors that has resulted in, so where we are, some of them might be due to ongoing negotiations, some of them might be might be due to the cost, some of them might be due to. There is going to be a delay due to unavoidable factors, and if that we dust situation, I think you are is because we are not doing everything I was supposed to be doing, but there might be some of these factors that is totally beyond the projects, champions control. As a result of the we will sit down with the projects. What I'm trying to get a better understanding of why why are we here? When is this going to happen and once we have a clear idea that budget will be re-profiled into future years

if there is a commitment on the system that this will be completed by 31st of March 2024, definitely a Tipperary potato as part of the accounting for the right cost into rights a year, but what is clear as part of the discussion coming from the projects owner is sorry is not going to be completed some of these contracts as building negotiated it should be happening Eden last year or over the next two years and that needs to be reflected in this report, thank you.

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:04:47

satisfactory, handsome on, I mean, I can say I mean from memory, I think it was about could have been about 12 million, maybe from from from the last from 22 23 I mean it's always so it's quite significant that the number

but I mean, I point out, I mean a couple of things couple of the re-profiled things, quite high value things by coach protections, I mean there Environment Agency.

we can't control have highlighted things, get down some things that are much more within the council's control, but not everything so that, but it's not, it's not a figure that makes you sort of think, I'll know so there has been there's been much less activity in previous years the butcher,

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:05:36

I guess that's the point really so.

Cllr James Butcher - 1:05:41

there's just something about what what meaning are we supposed to take from these figures and that that's I guess my beef with a lot of these reports, it kind of mistakes, detail for explanation and analysis and insight, because just putting loads of detail doesn't help us understand, you've just said, OK actually taken in context, that's not too worrying that that's not said anywhere here, it's not even I mean it is pretty clear we're talking about a third of the capital programme is being rolled forward and often in reports that we get there isn't just to say this figure is this percentage of that figure and either be reassured by this be pleased by it or be alarmed by it?

are we to be reassured or alarmed by this, you'll say, be reassured okay on what grounds he said, because that's normal is it, because if you compare rather authorities very, very similar to where we are, but just saying we're rolling forward 8 million, I'd I don't quite know what that piece of in where that gets us that piece of information without some explanation context and going to the trouble to do a bit of data analysis.

so that's so you know it is this, is this a light on the dashboard that should be telling us actually we haven't got as much grip on things we set out to do as we should when in fact we have and it's just circumstances beyond our control because if we're going into adopting a new Corporate Plan we want some reassurance that we can do the things we set out to do or are we missing some some kind of good quality project management?

or is in fact everything just fine, I can't tell from this because no, no one's actually saying this is what these numbers mean, it's just hero, loader numbers.

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:07:22

but just I mean just on, I mean on that, obviously these reports continued to evolve and you know one and get better, so I mean the in in the previous item.

having those those variances over 40,000 and those little, you know perhaps something similar for the capital report just to sort of a sentence or two on on some of these via the rollovers.

was it was, it was a dancer, was not not doing something, was it down to an outside agency, not doing something like, perhaps to give a bit

Cllr James Butcher - 1:07:59

more bit more contexts? If I take that, I think it's going one step beyond that, which is some kind of analysis of yes you can list now. It was for that reason it was for that reason, but what does that? What does all of that tell us about how are we doing around things in it, and I think it's that next level of analysis that will be really helpful in order to say actually members, you ought to be concerned or reassured or really we ought to be thinking more about our project management capacity and so on.

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:08:26

thank you, sir, thank you, is that Councillor Bruce again I think I

Mr Ola Owolabi - 1:08:31

can no, nearly, I assure you it is in in this says that this Council has got a like a project board and up forget bought tends to meet every quarter and go through each of those capital programme we use that bore to actually challenged where we are where we go in. What are the major stopped our we need to be aware of.

and

similar to what is share said earlier, there are some of this has totally beyond officers control and as a result of that we need to work with partners with stakeholder to get most obvious until dawn is not something that it is totally on represent, the Council can add or country something we meet, the what we Kent County Council on some of them as well, but it's just too. I assure you that we've got to forget Board that tends to meet every quarter and go through each of those figures to confront sorry and in your experience is rolling forward. A

Cllr James Butcher - 1:09:34

third of your capital programme is that fairly normal for local authorities,

I would say definitely, yes, I think I've been in this business for

Mr Ola Owolabi - 1:09:42

over 20 years with it is just that with capital programme we have the ambition of doing or those be Gus case project by the time you get into implementation there will be fairly as facts or economic issues on such sentences the prize changing needs Tipperary negotiate said and that tends to impact how do projects owner can implement these projects quickly, and we just need to take on those factories consideration. I mean there is a good imitation of actually saying this is the project is going to be there for over five years and is what we are going to do well garage so much factors that would be totally beyond the control of projects, had a project champions that we just need to work with them, making sure that we are monitoring the situation as we go on.

thank you.

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:10:40

Samantha, during the campaign, thank you yet, just carrying on that

Cllr Alan Martin - 1:10:45

theme I mean I'm on page 75, where we're explaining the reason for the for the re-profiling and.

I'm wondering, in my mind, maybe there's a different meeting where we should be scrutinising these projects, but in the context that we're looking at them now.

to Councillor purchase point we don't really have enough information around what's causing the delay, and why, and whether that's something that should be worrying us in actual fact the common is.

often a slippage of slippage arising from a delay in the scheme which is like saying the trains running late due to a delay. It doesn't actually tell you anything. I would also like to see similar to when we were talking about the KPIs of kind of like to know a bit of history, because for all for all I know these are the same thing might have happened last year. This might have slipped over five or six years, so I'd quite like to know a little bit more about the the status of the of the projects and to your point whether it should be concerning as the fact that it's being re re-profiled or whether it's very appropriate

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:11:52

thank you, Councillor Morgan, in answer to your question or February, when we set the capital budget, would be the time to go through the projects and try and well probably not, for probably not best for Tim Booth.

not like it not like he has tried not like he's never tried to remove a capital project on the night of a Budget, but there we go.

but yeah, I mean that's once that, once a capital budget gets set in February, then that's what sets all these projects in motion, although did you want to come back?

Mr Ola Owolabi - 1:12:23

again, I want to acknowledge your comments in terms of say would look at that comments column and do more in terms of explaining what it means, and it will make it more user friendly, and just coming back to she has commenced when this budget was agreed in February which also have a detailed business case to suppose east of this programme.

we're very bulky very detail, that is something along the lines, maybe when, during the protests rates in between, we can share that with you, but your comment is noted, we improve that last column, types of comet, thank you.

thank Councillor Mann.

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:13:00

do you want to come in?

Cllr Tim Prater - 1:13:06

if that's great. Thank you on the point of does this always happen? Yes, it does, and it drives me mad, and it is about a third of the capital programme every year doesn't get or gets rolled over to future years, and the more you look at it, the more that you can see why those things happen. So in Appendix 1, for instance, you're looking at the coast, drive seafront development, and almost all of the cost of that as round forward next year, and you've only just recently seen the planning application in order to build that thing. Why didn't we do it? Last year we ain't got planning for it because we were still negotiating for the estate in order to do it with the Crown Estate, about where you could build a thing and the car parks to stop

just stuff like that if yeah, if it's big aspirational, exciting, interesting stuff it always takes longer than you want because it's big aspirational exciting and those things there are, on the other hand have been doing some in meeting scrutiny on this and I'm about to bowel owners Ma googlies which is not going to enjoy and the so to look at this as a going so for instance on that Appendix 1 item 11 of that Princess Parade we've re-profiled 865,000 pounds-worth of expenditure for Princess brought forward into next year, I'd dearly love to know what that is.

and so by the time we get to Cabinet because I'm not planning on seeing 165,000 pounds was expected in Princess Parade next year, unless somebody knows something that I don't, and if they do, could they tell me please?

the other thing couple of points there were district street lights, slippage, Rivington delays schemes, budget to be reprofiled, 24 25 60,000 pounds of that budget, literally our last report from Gavin on district streetlights removed to the KPI on conversion of streetlights to lad because it had been completed.

so in April, so we've done that as far as I can tell now, unless this is a really late landing bill for the work that has already been done, why have we not, why is that while we've representing forward, we finished it or he said in the last report that we'd finished it and said this report we haven't finished it and that just confuses me a bit.

also line 17, the East Cliff landfill protection, the commentary on that is scheme no longer proceeding, budget will be removed from a 24 25 1.1 9 8 million pounds but actually appears in the rollover figures in the main report it's one that's been re-profiled from last year to this at some of the main report it's been re-profiled into this year and in this report it's we don't need that anymore because we're not going to do it.

back give me a little concerned as well, so that's that's to improve olders life, and I think it is a military background of it budgets cut

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:15:58

having yeah, obviously the the streetlights we completed in April so I would imagine, and he was was at 40,000.

obviously this is up to the 31st of March, so I hope that when we see the quarter 1 of this this year is a nettle that would have been used and gone but very valid on the principal rider beach thing to know what Bob for as well maybe I'll look any likeness, thank you.

Mr Ola Owolabi - 1:16:27

I will take those three comments away and come back to Councillor Pritchard before Cabinet are probably share my responses with, will you Committee elsewhere, but it's something I have been speaking to.

so Danny beside me, but I will take those three away and then I'll come back to you, thank you.

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:16:47

anything else on the capital programme.

obviously you will see them, we'll see the quarter one in in a few months' time, so we'll see if there's been any movement on any a visa, as I always wanted Sandy, you keep the last paper and you can, especially if you if you do have a paper copy it's easy just compared to bits pipe rather than to sort screens right so then are we happy to receive a note Napoleon favour?

thank you, and then the last time for the evening is a Housing Revenue, and Rachael Ray accounts will be looking at both the Revenue and Capital accounts for 23 24.

Mr Ola Owolabi - 1:17:32

thank you, sir, similar to the so previous report, this is the also Revenue accounts, looking at where we are, as at the end of 23 24, again, this is still a Provisiona out, a provisional outturn out on pending a final audit, so,

section 2 of the report detailed sexual 2.1 detailed the revenue outturn compared to the approved budgets in terms of fishery approved budget we've got to point 3 million, of which their provisional outturn was 5 2 3, a surplus of 1 8 3 8.

paragraph 2.1 point to detailed, where most of those surplus or do reason for those surpluses, and the biggest one there is still the discussions will be having in terms of contribution to capital programme.

the discussions we've had so far is about General Fund, this is, this is a shark and the issue of capital slippage is happening there as well.

so we have a decrease, a decrease in terms of revenue contribution to capital to the tune of 1.6 million, a decrease in terms of supervision and management, increase in interest, investment, income, decrease in budget provisions, increase in rental income, and additional costs relating to pension costs, so those are the breakdown when we look at 1.00.8 3 8 however, that 1.8 3 8 will be going into the HR.

6 Housing Revenue and Capital Provisional Outturn 2023/24

reserves, section 2.2 touched on the capital programme itself.

and in terms of fish are a capital programme.

the

plan is to spend 14.5 at the beginning of the year, the final outturn was 12.6 of which we have a variance of 1 point my for the detailed breakdown of those variances of one night for is detailed in section 2.2 point 2 and we can see the biggest one wishes the as the chef withdrew of it's 8 1 re-roofing of several nights a Telecare digital update upgrade of 6 1 9 and window and door hits an improvement Tummel installation, so just at the Asia, Asia relates at capital expenditure that is either ongoing definitely not completed until be completed in 24 25.

we attached the appendix 1 and 2 which detail the also revenue budget outturn appendix 2, detailed the Capital Programme outturn, and I'll stop there happy to take questions, thank you.

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:20:52

thank you all are right, so obviously quite similar, to what the last couple of reports, but in a more sort of focused area.

income is up and expenditure is down, but there's a few more other things in that councillors have any thoughts questions I wish to wish to ask her anything to be clarified, Councillor Dobson, he had just wanted to clarify what treatment works means.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:21:25

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:21:41

Cllr Alan Martin - 1:21:49

they were allowed their treatment plants that the Council inherited when they brought that the housing backing that require quite a lot of servicing and upgrading, and so on, yet you've been concerned, because no thank you.

anything else.

Mr Ola Owolabi - 1:22:05

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:22:05

no only.

a couple of things for myself

things sadly, keep coming round and round and round roofing.

obviously had a quick look.

we carried forwards.

just over 3 million for.

now that was in tow, so we.

carried over 771 for re-roofing from last year.

and then.

looking to carry on another 790, it'd be really good to get some information from the housing team just as to when, although the roofing works are going to have to be completed because I just think it's three years and the three years in a row now we're seeing quite large levels of of re-profiling for for roofing works the same for fifth thermal insulation.

again 1.1 2 million.

carried forward from from 22 23

which if?

if a if a budget, because it wasn't that the the actual budget for the year photograph for thermal insulation was, it was a lot less so if 1 1.1 point 2 7 3 is carried forward from last year, does that not then go into the the actual budget for for that for this year or how does it so?

that was my understanding, so we look at.

we look at thermal insulation.

says he, the approved budget is 407,000 pounds.

but we, we carried forward 1.273 million pounds from last year, so.

Mr Ola Owolabi - 1:24:14

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:24:15

does that 1 1 2 7 3 get added on to the 4 0 7 or so Seb?

Mr Ola Owolabi - 1:24:17

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:24:18

why does it not show, I guess, why did you not add that money into that for for the for the approved budget for for this year, if it's carrying forward, just does it quick comments on that? I will come

Mr Ola Owolabi - 1:24:31

back with further clarification, but the carry forward from previous year will be harder to this year. Available resources and the leftover or for 0 4. We should made reference to will be looking into the carry forward plus the 400,000 are we've got this year and that is leftover, but I will clarify that again.

thank you.

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:24:57

that was my only observation on that, so there's nothing else on that on the Housing Revenue and Capital accounts, then we are happy to again to receive and note this report. Councillor Butcher, 0 sorry, I was just picking up on something Councillor Eddy said earlier about

Cllr James Butcher - 1:25:11

response to queries if they could be shared with everybody. Yes, I guess we're all interested in the answer, yet yet we didn't know

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:25:19

absolutely, and I've made a note of most of them, sober I'll I'll chase up with the relevant people, sorry, yes, just receive and note that last report

OK.

have a lovely evening everyone, thank you very much.

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Finance and Performance Scrutiny Sub-Committee - Tuesday 2 July 2024, 6:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Finance and Performance Scrutiny Sub-CommitteeTuesday, 2nd July 2024 at 6:00pm

Agenda

Slides

Transcript

Map

Resources

Twitter

Forums

Speakers

Feedback

Votes

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:00:06

Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:00:43

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:00:46

Cllr James Butcher - 0:00:53

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:00:57

Cllr John Wing - 0:00:57

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:00:59

1 Apologies for absence

2 Declarations of interest

3 Annual Performance Report 2023-24 and Draft KPIs 2024-25

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:01:17

Gavin Edwards - 0:01:41

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:03:22

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:03:38

Cllr James Butcher - 0:03:43

Gavin Edwards - 0:05:27

Cllr James Butcher - 0:06:33

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:06:46

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:06:54

Gavin Edwards - 0:07:57

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:08:18

Gavin Edwards - 0:09:15

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:09:44

Gavin Edwards - 0:10:51

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:12:08

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:12:17

Gavin Edwards - 0:13:08

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:13:26

Gavin Edwards - 0:13:33

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:13:50

Gavin Edwards - 0:15:28

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:16:01

Gavin Edwards - 0:17:31

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:17:55

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:18:00

Gavin Edwards - 0:19:20

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:19:58

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:20:02

Gavin Edwards - 0:21:03

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:21:45

Cllr James Butcher - 0:21:51

Gavin Edwards - 0:23:19

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:24:14

Cllr James Butcher - 0:24:23

Gavin Edwards - 0:25:19

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:25:56

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:25:59

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:26:14

4 General Fund Revenue Provisional Outturn 2023/24

Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:28:06

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:35:37

Cllr Tim Prater - 0:35:43

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:42:23

Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:42:28

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:43:01

Cllr John Wing - 0:43:15

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:44:08

Cllr James Butcher - 0:44:15

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:46:21

Cllr James Butcher - 0:46:37

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:46:58

Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:47:14

Cllr James Butcher - 0:47:37

Mr Ola Owolabi - 0:48:51

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:49:13

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:49:18

Cllr Tim Prater - 0:49:53

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:50:07

Finance and Performance Scrutiny Sub-Committee
Tuesday, 2nd July 2024 at 6:00pm