Overview and Scrutiny Committee - Tuesday 23 July 2024, 6:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Overview and Scrutiny Committee
Tuesday, 23rd July 2024 at 6:00pm 

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  1. Cllr Laura Davison
  2. Mr Jake Hamilton
  3. Cllr Laura Davison
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  1. Cllr James Butcher
  2. Cllr Laura Davison
  3. Cllr John Wing
  4. Cllr Laura Davison
  5. Cllr Laura Davison
  6. Councillor Tony Hills
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  1. Cllr James Butcher
  2. Cllr Laura Davison
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  1. Cllr Tim Prater
  2. Cllr Laura Davison
  3. Cllr James Butcher
  4. Cllr Laura Davison
  5. Cllr Tim Prater
  6. Cllr James Butcher
  7. Cllr Laura Davison
  8. Cllr Laura Davison
  9. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  10. Cllr Laura Davison
  11. Cllr Tim Prater
  12. Cllr Laura Davison
  13. Cllr James Butcher
  14. Cllr Tim Prater
  15. Cllr Laura Davison
  16. Cllr James Butcher
  17. Cllr Laura Davison
  18. Councillor Tony Hills
  19. Cllr Tim Prater
  20. Cllr Laura Davison
  21. Councillor Tony Hills
  22. Cllr Laura Davison
  23. Cllr Laura Davison
  24. Cllr Anita Jones
  25. Cllr Laura Davison
  26. Cllr Connor McConville
  27. Cllr Laura Davison
  28. Cllr Laura Davison
  29. Cllr Jim Martin
  30. Cllr Jim Martin
  31. Cllr Jim Martin
  32. Cllr Laura Davison
  33. Cllr Laura Davison
  34. Cllr Tim Prater
  35. Cllr Tim Prater
  36. Cllr Laura Davison
  37. Cllr James Butcher
  38. Cllr Laura Davison
  39. Cllr Tim Prater
  40. Cllr Laura Davison
  41. Cllr Gary Fuller
  42. Cllr Laura Davison
  43. Cllr James Butcher
  44. Cllr Gary Fuller
  45. Cllr Laura Davison
  46. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  47. Cllr Laura Davison
  48. Cllr Connor McConville
  49. Cllr Gary Fuller
  50. Cllr Laura Davison
  51. Cllr Anita Jones
  52. Cllr Gary Fuller
  53. Cllr Laura Davison
  54. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
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  1. Cllr Laura Davison
  2. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  3. Cllr Laura Davison
  4. Cllr John Wing
  5. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  6. Cllr Laura Davison
  7. Cllr James Butcher
  8. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  9. Cllr Laura Davison
  10. Cllr Elaine Martin
  11. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  12. Cllr Laura Davison
  13. Cllr Tim Prater
  14. Cllr Laura Davison
  15. Cllr Elaine Martin
  16. Cllr Laura Davison
  17. Cllr Alan Martin
  18. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  19. Cllr Laura Davison
  20. Councillor Tony Hills
  21. Cllr Laura Davison
  22. Cllr Elaine Martin
  23. Cllr Laura Davison
  24. Cllr Laura Davison
  25. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  26. Cllr Connor McConville
  27. Cllr Laura Davison
  28. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  29. Cllr Laura Davison
  30. Webcast Finished

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:04
good evening, everyone and welcome to this meeting of the Overview and Scrutiny Committee. The meeting will be webcast live to the internet. For those who don't wish to be recorded or filmed. You'll need to leave the Chamber for members officers and others speaking at the meeting. It's important that the microphones are used, so viewers on the webcast and others in the room. May here you would anyone with a mobile phone, please switch it to silent mode as they can be. Distracting would like to remind Members that, although we all have strong opinions or matters under consideration, it's important to treat members, officers and public speakers with respect, leaving everybody

1 Apologies for Absence

2 Declarations of Interest

I think we have a full house this evening, so it's nice to see everybody. We will move to item on apologies, for absence for the record, but I think I know the answer, thank you Chair, we have no
Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:00:48
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:50
apologies, thank you very much and are there any declarations of interests this evening Councillor Butcher,
Cllr James Butcher - 0:00:58
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:59
I declare an interest as Director of opportunity counselling.
Cllr John Wing - 0:01:03
also declared an interest as a dreadful opportunist Councillor Hills and managing the KCC.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:01:07
thank you.

3 Minutes

Councillor Tony Hills - 0:01:10
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:01:10
moving on, we have the minutes of our last meeting in front of us.
we need to consider and approve those as a correct record, are there any comments on the minutes?
just to let people know that the two items that we discussed last time in terms of procurement and the Folca project, I know our officers are in discussion, we had asked for both of those to come back to the Committee, so our officers are following of in terms of finding are appropriate timeslot for for that to happen.
so just wanted to update the Committee on that, if there are no amendments to the minutes and could we have a proposer?

4 Minutes of the Finance and Performance Sub-Committee

Councillor wing and a secondary thank you, Councillor Hills all agreed thank you and the minutes of the Finance and performance Scrutiny Sub-Committee.
are there any comments on those
have to close, thank you, Councillor McConville, Councillor Buckley.
Cllr James Butcher - 0:02:14
but I just wanted to note the e-mail with questions, and answers has been shaped to renew, it just feels incredibly helpful to have that written down in such a systematic way with such full answers to queries were raised, and I just really appreciate that, although it must have been qualitative work to do this.
I think that that makes a huge difference being just I think he's made it asked about.
planning Enforcement, whether there could be a KPI, although the some difficult, without just to have a bit of data that we've got, those shows cases received more than cases closed, purchase the health organisation to understand from the district, in the meantime I think, the Scrutiny unhelpful practice.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:02:55
thanks very much hopefully we can capture that and in the on the limits are for this meeting, so I think Councillor McConville has proposed, but we have a seconder for those minutes, Councillor Burton, thank he is that agreed by everybody to thank you are just five minutes.

5 Cabinet Member update

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:03:30
so we're moving on to Item 5, which is cabinet member updates, we are grateful to Councillor Prysor and Councillor Fuller for coming along this evening to update us on their work to their portfolios, we would head particularly ask Councillor Prater to come early in the cycle in order that we could talk more about the move to the cabinet to the committee system.
so I'm going to invite Councillor Peter perhaps to introduce first, and then if we've got questions, we can pick those up with you.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:04:04
okay, thank future.
I was going to deal with
of both sides of micro projects, ultimately, the finance section first briefly to dispose of amendment to the government's effectively committee system, section second.
which
hopefully that would be helpful if, if you wanted entertainment during the Finance section, we've all had an extensive e-mail, often during the course.
the ban on the government section gives you a moment to read that, while I'm talking about the finance,
the so I'm on the finance, our current position in terms of accounts and audited accounts, I thought it would be helpful to give a quick position statement of where we are.
as you'll know, for the last couple of years.
accounts haven't actually been put the certificate issued by the Auditor or 21 22, there were a couple of questions outstanding for members of the public which were being addressed by the external Auditor, and before they should confront certificate, they have accepted the accounts cycle numbers, etc. All right that there are no more questions over them to question for the country involved, we are still awaiting the external to sign off on the 21 22 counts formats.
for 22 23, some year, ending March 23.
again, we are, the accounts are finalised and I have been with the external auditor as you'll know.
but they didn't come to engaging in May as they were meant to, because they are the external that have not given their opinion on those counts for that they still have not done so. I'm reassurance for all questions that we've been asked by the Essex and order, since have been responded to to make sure that one, and we are simply awaiting them to ask any additional questions and then complete prices to actual final. Both accounts backs has to take place before the end of September, so those accounts will go to A&E before the end of September. I want them to go as soon as possible, but you can't I can't with the external auditor I just, but they work to their own pace, although that they accept that there was a legal deadline for September 24 flats for batteries, where they are, we should be seen, Primrose audited accounts agreed and go into Angie
in during the course of September for 23 24 went to the yeah management across the main Council, attempts to clean and are published on the website by the end of June.
they went to the Finance Sub-Committee at its most recent meeting and to the Cabinet, and I've been agreed to what will be accepted by o and contained the strong news.
VAT
where we were, where being budget for last year, objectives that we will go in to take the movement to spend roughly 1.8 million pounds from general reserves and will support the Budget we said about 60,000 pounds of that in terms of underspent.
that was a really strong results on it and we had some discussion at the Finance Sub-Committee on to cabinet about the fact that that's great that's a nice surprise, but it was the biggest, surprisingly expected from our
regular reporting of quarterly reports, it was better than we expected and although a good prize is better than a bad surprise, I'm finding very much in the thank you no surprises and I'd like to see.
better modeling and production making going forward, and that's where we're aiming to, however.
what hasn't happened yet it's the finalisation of the full group accounts for the Council, so the main Councillor Karen is done, but the group Council offering opportunities house and our canopy and there are some bits of detail which are yet to be finished. Their before we can publish, the full publication can get the public inspections. I'll be reassured by Lydia today that we have taken on additional resource in order to make sure to get that what piece of work done and to get them published as soon as humanly possible, but that additional needs also help just make sure that all those numbers balance at Mario we'll get out and then go to public inspection, and when that public inspection period is complete, if they then go to the external auditor and we go back through the process that they need to be completed by then. The second question for
and also the draft main Councillor accounts, there was a statutory reporting deadline to.
comments, parliament, I forget which one do not, I think, by the back end of last week and I've had confirmation that they were significant.
he's also done.
looking forward, the budget process incredibly for next year is about to start.
first up will have a look at the MCFs that we did last year see what's changed in that update the assumptions in February with what we know now and what things had changed, no staff bank levels can you will see a for instance, and therefore we can convene a summit next year that sort of thing,
but as the government's settlements, this senior is even less certain man there may have been in previous years, they might be better or worse than just maintenance increasingly how to make a prediction on things like income.
until the management's made, but we can, we will be looking at, that would be looking at any further transformation.
any aligning the budget to the emerging Corporate Plan priorities
sorry, there'll be another star chamber, rounded, Lisa autumn, well, lead members at lead officers, and Corporate directors, supported by cabinet members, will look at any suggestion. Savings and additional income streams for consideration in this year's budget process. So you start to see papers coming back through during the course of October and November 4 additional changes, the budget as there will be every year and dealt come through Scrutiny and Cabinet prior to completion and a new Budget which will deal with in the meeting towards the end of February, and the cycle turns again, and we did say.
so that's where we're to financially that's where the budget position as at month site in terms of the move, the committee system.
as I said in my can then apply to do you want to just pause so he just takes a crisis because we didn't know Lavenders file before that's
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:10:28
before we forget all of that, Councillor Butcher, I think you wanted
Cllr James Butcher - 0:10:31
to come when I guess is an observation so it is really great to have an update on the accounts I feel I know more now sitting here with one or two outside of here as well as general holding governments,
and that alarms me, and if asked by a member of the public up until now, can you tell me what's going on with all this delayed any Councillor wouldn't have been able to answer them, and that doesn't feel satisfactory sorry to come from where we were in the main audit and governance where we were expecting to sign up some accounts in half an hour before we and we weren't going to.
I think I would have expected more kind of proactive updates to keep us in touch with what's happening and why, and when might be experiencing, Councillor becomes, I think there's just a missing or lesson to be learned, I guess about how audit governance plays the role is intended to plan and is kept up today and fully.
informed on car, what's going on, how calm and on what's happening, otherwise it feels like all the government's is going to be a bit of a rubber stamp to something rather than the role I think is meant.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:11:39
thanks, Councillor approximate, you want to come back on.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:11:41
yes.
there are your officers to along Chair and Vice Chair of Audit and Governance Committee. We need to be true for four directors or officers which are seeking to mental sure they are giving you the ulcers and the clarity which you need for that role, and I can put my hand up to us that it is that that is a that is something which I have been struggling with and I apologise for not satisfactorily been stuck at any with it to the clarity which I have here has come has taken some time to establish himself, sometimes the weekly check, what the positions on each of those, and that's wondering if there's a
better way that as.
the finance I can work with an engine and
do the translation, which is kind of I feel like I'm being on business, and taking this into the translation, if I can help without influence, that let me know how really happy to do so, if it's a question that in more briefings with the officers really happy to try and make it to make that platform as well, but you're absolutely right,
I won, but I think it's important that there is a separation between on June and the Cabinet member for finance because they kind of that on the same side, but you're checking my homework and if I'm telling you how how we borrow, I rewrote it might have worked and you do it the same way and has not mentioned, so I just I'm I'm very keen to help and I apologise for family amalgamate bombs, that you feel you need to do that job and let's make sure that we fixed signed, but I just want to make sure that we are minded in such a way whereby your coming to hopefully the conclusion that what we're putting in front of you is correct, without we check that you believe in need can see what I mean
Councillor richer.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:13:45
Cllr James Butcher - 0:13:45
yes, so so, to give you an example last question, in that Mario ring governments about what is the current may change Reserve being spent on? That's my honest again, I've just today received figures on that. So yes, of course we go, we go back to officers and ask questions, it's just we don't always get a response and said that there's something not working in the system and I'm contracting signage him because he here at 0.00 unpleasant smells question processes, but I think we need just to log the fact that it is proving difficult to get answers, the questions that we ask and it shouldn't be, I think we should be getting prompter responses or an explanation, so to get an answer, I've done a lot of chasing up, as have other colleagues, in the way that I don't think
we should be needing to do so that the the something I just want to log and record, I think there's something not working in our system for getting oversight over how the finances or Council are working on behalf of our residents.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:14:40
OK.
Ted you wanted to come in Andy yeah requirement.
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:14:48
thank you, Chair, just in response to Councillor Burgess.
quails comments that if you if you are in a situation where you know get responses from the from officers that comes needs to contribute to direct our Chief Exec, and we will ensure that you are getting on some of our most often liaison now will operate with opportune to offer difficulties if you pose questions to miles', you will get responsible, should get responses in a timely manner saying it is not happening please let us know,
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:15:17
thank Sandy I I think the points have been made, so can I ask if other councils have got questions on the finance aspect of Councillor pages portfolio?
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:15:34
no okay to want to move on to thank you, yeah sorry general, removed Michy system.
he will have had a briefing a few weeks ago, methods you a few weeks ago, which came to all members on basically, when possession was given, a map said that we should be seeing an early draft of the new consultation, new constitution, which would go to the Constitution working Group at the end of July.
I am delighted to say that I've actually been reassured that it will be going to the Constitution working Group at the end of July, and it is on time and that we will see a draft of the at that meeting.
is this news today and collisions raised his eyes at me,
which delighted me as well so.
many, Ian, I get the in I get an enjoyable summer reading a constitution which is basically the way who welcome.
so there'll be some to and fro amount would working Group, I think, for a meeting next Friday. I think it is is road, we're gonna be a I, the first one, through at an explanation of what they've got there and why and how it fits together and closed, and then the working group will go away and consultant with groups and looking at in detail and then we'll have to and fro actually on the detail of that, but they will actually be something to have some sub to and fro on and see how it actually fits together. So there was a briefing which was circulated Councillors a few weeks ago and
there's been all Council briefings as well, but hopefully, as I also mentioned earlier, there was an e-mail from me in response to a number of questions of these held today, the e-mail culture, and many thanks for your answer that you know what I, as I'd gone through in some detail, responses that which hopefully agree with the FA keen is on the answers that had been given previously.
but a rubber morning and in some instances rather more blunt ran officer drafting promises so that hopefully, hopefully, care will say but answered each of those, I also thought it was useful to go to all members of the Council because of questions were absolutely valid from the entire Council plants they will get put everybody on the same pension together.
has enhanced leading different people in different parts of the road so that no lots of e-mails that I'm I'm happy to make fax e-mail part of my reports of subject that across said they can go with the minutes.
along with this sober, if people want to see see those answers, then then can do so, I'm sure they'll be more feedback and questions on that night, so I'm happy to committee members to.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:18:17
go from me on the e-mail and the questions and answers, OK, thank Councillor pace and thanks for taking time to settle wetlands answers ahead of the meeting, it was helpful, I think.
are there questions that Councillors would like to pick up in relation to the government's parties? Councillor point is portfolio, Councillor Butcher
Cllr James Butcher - 0:18:36
yeah, I've got some questions of detail, but that a notable question of process, so my understanding is the constitution working group is advisory, so you're advising the Council and that a decision will be made on that in January is that right is when it goes to full Council that was my memory from the timetable January 25, so that's the first point at which Members will have the opportunity to make a decision.
on whether we accept the recommendations of being Constitution working Group.
and the effect that the draft is going to go to them is the working group which will hopefully.
neither will representatives in February goodnight, but my understanding was it's not a decision made, if not institutions know, so that is a drop yeah, so that they're getting a draft revenue talking point, with all draft ready for people are thought to add a during.
or not agree in January.
so that proponents gonna make is that that feels quite late for all of us to be making a decision when all the were, I guess I would have expected around now, for example, Council to make a decision on are the recommendations that the working group making ones that we want to extend.
or not because you, when you've outlined in your very, very full response, we could have had more committees that will not decide to do that, we had a conversation about whether you have a spokesperson for different topics as well as the Chair and Vice Chair, that those will recommendations in your motion.
the best subject to decision by Full Council so-called Council I mean, one, could imagine a world where you'd say to full Council here, are two or three options, were recommending option 1, and then we vote, but at the moment it seems as if.
you, you're acting, that this way of doing things has been decided when, as I understand it, unless you correct me, this hasn't been decided yet this particular way of organising the committee system.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:20:42
notes I represent, although groups who will then discuss that within Local some our control, we were toolbox.
we write to all adult women Jackson and just to turn around and say I don't like the way the horse I don't like the middle chapter does rather does rather affect nearby.
and it's so, yes, it's a working group which is coming forward with proposal, is coming forward with a constitution which will hold what will underpin all of that.
and have set out a discussion with the work I'm happy, threatening working group to discuss if there is a way of getting a broad question of whether people are.
happy with the broad principles which are there, but they they've been gone through in in detail when I make sit that way for a reason an
the more time to rewrite that for more time so that the more times in the right that this is just again that you can take up writing the rules of right the rules or the date when you can just go through forever effectively what we're saying in terms of the costs were working on what we've put them on pace here is let's get something in place that meets the principles and meets the criteria which this Council did separate which, although it shouldn't take a great deal longer than it should increased cuts, are Councillor
access and involvement in decisions that it should broad, broader matters is making that it should add to increase access of residents to input into meetings.
that you shouldn't cost a great deal more than it shouldn't take a great deal longer than it should have a huge number, more meetings.
and that's the kind of compromise that work that look at combined frontrunner for that and create a constitutional system which makes that work from day one.
but you can change those things in running if we turn round year a year in one go to Committee, started work, we absolutely need at the Committee to divorce, you can change the prosecution, you do that and you can do in war doing in running.
so what one can make her challenge, we say that 12 people is the wrong number of Kingcombe admitting and we want to for a reason you can do that, we can make that change in run, but nobody's going to know whether that's a good idea actually travel, so actually what we're trying to do is just it is put in place, a framework and the principle which we think that will work that has been discussed negotiated and agreed between representatives of all groups at that stage in company with a series of rules which kind of work,
and then we can test for me in London, and we can kind of children in one of the only rule that you can't change is the principle of the deck and the principle of the guidance that more involvement and the committee system itself, that's the only royal prostitution from
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:23:21
Councillor Peter.
Councillor Betson,
Cllr James Butcher - 0:23:24
yes, Simon
again, what you're saying to you're talking, as if you've decided and what you are happy with what we're not happy with what we're moving to his assistant, where more than get involved into cycling things, and it feels as if we're not modelling that approaching how this decisions being made. We seem to have a small group of members making decisions about how we move away from the system where a small group of members make a decision, and what we could be doing is saying you know, it's July August, let let's all of us expressive you and decide whether what you're recommending the work we do is
6, what we thought we are asking for and then go forward to January, when we make a final decision on the draft constitution, but at the moment, the way all the Q, and A is a frame things, there is a way of doing things and we'll explain to you why that's the right way of doing things rather than I saw having the opportunity to make a decision together.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:24:18
perhaps Councillor Berkshire, I'm gonna, bring Councillor Helsinki's because he was indicating obviously this evening, as and opportunities for points to be raised Executive, as is happening, Councillor Helal,
Councillor Tony Hills - 0:24:28
thank you, Chair addresses are Tim prose diagram sent over the today from the breakdown housing like dot com, admittedly outcome very lectures,
I do apologise administrations, but I think it's very usable is fit laid down, but she has also surprised a bit tax where you got your subcommittees and you've got one under the Communities Environment Committee you've got a sub-committee for housing very important subsequently you haven't got a sub-committee be environment per se unsurprising that because I personally think the environment and things have a change that would yet more and more important as time goes by.
thoughts.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:25:17
it's again one of those things whereby we're trying to make sure we're a, you would deal with most environmental work in the communities environment committing itself rather than the Sub-Committee, no, it's not a subset, it's all of it.
Steve Councillor, Scotland would say at any stage you can discuss the empowerment at sorry yeah. There's a sub-committee form, it's the entire game if any conversation or having doesn't include environmental impact and how this decision plays into what we're doing decision as well. That's where the conflict Corporate Plan discussion is gonna come since that everything is outlined with environmental question in there as well. So actually I wouldn't relegate them to a sub-committee, because I think you'll find to balance what you wanted as part of an ongoing, not something that said if there's an element. As I said, this is making the rules and running. We we set up, what we think is the is a streamline. We putting forward a streamlined structure which doesn't increase the number of meetings. Rallies keeps the resource. Although resource focused
and it doesn't increase the number of meetings and that sort of thing, but if Council doesn't think it will happen of having tripled for six months, or so we don't think that you're getting enough, that you don't think you're doing enough time to concentrate on a certain element will certain area certain focus I'm Barack no recently currently that any supplementary apart from the fact that Susan preschool start on site whereas the office in time commitment problem and as long as we've got a good answer for that.
that's fine that Scotland stuff so for each of that, so we haven't created a because we don't want to get her wise move on, we want to be front and centre in the same way as our communities and B if it is broke when we tested it then we'll fix it.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:27:01
Councillor Jones's, indicating to do you want to come back Councillor
Councillor Tony Hills - 0:27:07
health, increasing to check, thank you to actually might I appreciate what you're saying you're in the right, did you put it is something I
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:27:16
must admit at the Health Committee meets, it is inherently yeah,
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:27:23
yeah, I think there is, if you if you look at what was circulated, it gives us suggested frequency for both the Committee's Councillor
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:27:33
Jones. I'd just like to echo what Councillor but she was talking about. I think it would be sensible to bring this to Council sooner than January because we don't want to be in a position in January working because suddenly realised what we're trying to be going into, I think, outlined and therefore more for warning and debate it and work with the Council in a meeting. Sorry that the
the working group feel like they are taking the right decisions forward and we can do any tweaks before January before it's too late, I think that's just good planning actually this is a big thing we're changing and we want to get it right and I know we can tweak things afterwards as you say, but we don't want to be constantly changing it afterwards again don't the loss of Susan pleased.
asking us where we're going to get the Oxford time if we've planned it properly, we shouldn't have to make too many adjustments,
so I would really urge you to bringing to the council, seemingly in January police,
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:28:29
thank you, Councillor Jones, any other questions or comments, Councillor McConville.
thanks yeah, just thinking on some of the comments I mean.
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:28:39
I think the main one you Race, Councillor Butcher, in terms of the the very basic structure I mean that was sought that the very first hurdle that the assumed had been sort of crossed, there was a rough sort of plan that you might recall largely between a choice of two options one to have,
almost a similar sort of system as to what we have now, where we would have one overarching committee, which would largely take the place and Cabinet and then at overview and scrutiny function, but that didn't scene with members at the time.
you know that the there was too similar, there wasn't a big enough change, which is why the decision was made very early on to focus on going down a route of to service committees which allows 24 members of of the Council to sit on those and and be active in decision making, so I mean for me I Amanda the belief that that decision while not may be made in principle in a meeting with hands and all the rest of it was largely agreed by the majority of the council, which is you know which is what the working group has been working towards since.
that sort of hurdle was was was was crossed, so if Members feel that that's that's not the right model,
then the working group prodigious wasted a year and when, when Council voted to defer for a year, it was my understanding that that was still the model that was largely agreed in principle, that we were working towards so.
I mean, you know everything since then has largely been no quite.
sort of stuff on the fringes should there should there be the spokespeople, or should that, should it just be the chair's role to be the front facing people, or you know what, what are the certain limits for certain financial suffering from in environments and all those sorts of technical things that obviously a constitution quite rightly named so but that the overarching big picture principle I to me was decided you know,
well about 14 months ago
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:30:57
thank you, Councillor Cunningham Councillor, which I can see you're indicating, I just wanted to also flag of esteem.
as an overview and scrutiny committee and that function within the new committee system is something that that we discussed, and I did have one question in relation to that which I be keen that we don't miss the opportunity to just pick up on that as part of the discussion as well but Councillor Butcher,
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:31:25
OK, yeah, well, it was, I think, just.
reading through what's been circulated today, we've talked before about the work plan that you know that this committee has, which I think there's been valuable in kind of shaping the work that that we've done and is open for input from officers from Councillors from members of the public to kind of highlight issues that they want the Council to be looking at and discussing, I think, as I've understood it, what's being suggested is that there will be a route through chairs and vice chairs of the committees for pupils to still be able to raise issues, but I'd quite like to see that
be a more formalised process like there is at the moment, so in the same way officers members, members of the public, can raise issues that they would want the Committee system to be discussing in the appropriate committee, so I just wanted to make that that point during the meeting this evening and seeing not so I'm taking that as positive Councillor Martin.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:32:29
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:32:31
the Patient Chair.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:32:41
the Chair of the constitutional working group, this was a really big issue for me because this this is a very effective functioning.
committed, as far as I'm concerned, I'm I needed a lot of reassurance,
a lot of explanation as to why we would go forward with Wigan without overview and scrutiny.
and the the simple answer is that the committee is still there on Overview and Scrutiny, this is a responsibility rather than delegating it to this Committee, the the all a council members must take seriously that the the bikes within those committees must be stronger, the Members within most committees must scrutinise.
and I'm I'm work through if there is I overview and scrutiny committee, it's a very different model and gone back to Councillor McConville's point are you know, we would, we would start again effectively, but the the all your the point that you're making the overview and scrutiny function is so important and every it has to really be highlighted to everyone that it is everyone's responsibility.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:34:09
thanks, Councillor Martin, do you want to come in on that particular point to factor, and then I'm going to Councillor Berkshire, who's
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:34:14
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:34:14
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:34:18
been patient yeah, just on that particular point, I think, by having a annual call for subjects and making sure that there is a formalised way of putting stuff on to the agenda of those Committees is exactly like,
we should continue that process and that function and would make a way of making that happen, but when you've got those subjects at that stage we look at those subjects will go right, that'll go to spruce Scrutiny and finance committee Rob that one will go to Communities Environment Committee and they can debates firms, things as they can look at those subjects and debate those things have will have the ability to call witnesses and that that's the thing.
but importantly, their recommendations at the end of that don't necessarily have to being just to note the item.
they can have recommendations which then do stuff
and 12 people who sat in that room, scrutinising Martin asking the question was can look at that and go right. We now we've seen that we want to see this happen. We want to see that happen within the budget framework and all of the things that an officer will tell you that you can and can't do at that time that that there are limits to what you can do not be able to turn round and suddenly spend millions of pounds on something tonight, but you will have the opportunity to actually make proposals and do things as opposed to say we note these things. There's clearly some bad stuff going on and will refer back to Cabinet to go and do some more force, because that's currently the position whereby that's what you can tell something to do is for somebody else to go on to do something we've actually. I want you to be able to say we should do this and will do it now, but you can we put stuff, but can we have a process whereby staff is put into those judged in the
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:35:59
course of the yes, I would like to make sure that happens great. Thank you, Councillor brochure
yeah, just to I cannot think of anything scrutiny and about just
Cllr James Butcher - 0:36:05
wanting to get to the next level of detail, because I think that the sort of things we get reviewing scrutiny were happening committing again that let's get into the how and in the way that we've had a big session on the New Cross border checks and we had visited saying and we've had chairs, the Parish Council is giving evidence. That's clearly outside of normal meetings are held with that work, and I know the answers for varies. It's just, I think, would be great to see a lot more codified about how things will work in practice. Just take things like a decision on a controlled parking zone, just working out the decision making process. So we can all see that because at the moment it feels like we're operating the very high level of how things are done
you will see things saying where it will be done in the same kind of way, but it is just to get some of that detail house, I think it would be helpful, I think, that the there's somewhere in De the points of Lane of May about how do we get no review of what's happening if we got ward councillors or raising issues with an officer and quite likely more than one officer around the same thing.
because at the moment that will go through a portfolio holder that portfolio holder then has an overview of not just the local issues, but what what systemic issues those local issues might be pointing to, and clearly there's an answer to how that can be done with it would be good just to see how we make sure we're not losing an oversight that a portfolio holder can provide and to go back to what Councillor Campbell was saying wow when we talk about decisions being made, I think that's the point I was trying to make a new recommendations made. Decisions haven't been Magnises away personalities, seeing because the constantly with reasons decision-making bodies. So when we're getting questions like, should we have a sub-committee, should we have spokespeople at some point we all collectively need to make a decision about that based on the recommendations of the working group and has initially saying it would be good to make certain that sooner rather than later, some of these refinements to the moral hands. Councillor Booth 0 sorry policies currently say one more thing, which is, it seems, like a really good opportunity to look at the way decisions are made, because at the moment, what happens is we get these really mentally papers? I think the last pdf pack will want to Cabinet was 220 pages. I think this is not keen to really rethink our reports are written in order that was very packed agenda, that of for Members to review and a proper focused on will make good decisions. So I'd really like to see us look again at how reports are written, to really emphasise insight, as a detailed in get pages and pages of detail, and we're offering short-term on-site. We're starting to get some dashboards got very good one for opportunity to ask those kind of things really help, but I think it was a good opportunity to rethink,
getting committee reports that are fit for purpose, not rampaging Cameron laughing, can we can we found one last big, can we found follow moment and come up with a plain English town for that we do what we do not want to be talking to members of the public about the concept of decision which is a word notion precision reforestation, yeah yeah, it's not.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:39:19
I, I'm gonna just to add to the list one other thing which I think some of that was around were sort of examples which I think always useful Andre, which is just around being clear what what subjects or what what sort of topics would go to each Committee I know it's very it's very obvious in some cases but probably for other things it's not quite so obvious so,
I think that was we were told that was work in progress and that it would be useful just to have a bit more clarity but about what went under each committee there's there's been an awful lot in the discussion, I am gonna kind of draw to a close because we need to move on to Councillor Fuller I'm just gonna say to Councillor Procter, is there anything that you would like to just come back on before we move
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:39:59
on? Thank you. I am very happy to discuss with working group next Friday about whether there is a logic way of bringing principles back to an earlier meeting before one brings a detailed constitution. However, actually, in terms of number of the questions like, should that the spokesman equal, shouldn't they be, you agree a consultation, you remove the licence repairs to them or not, so the detail is, it's come up with a HMO, indefensible officer reports from 200 page agenda.
I think that the reports tend to be your Executive Summary. They are, they do lead you through in four five pages, the issue, the question and take you through an executive summary 100 pages which sit behind that all the detail and I'm afraid I wanted detail, so I I accept that you can just bring to the Executive Summary and can generally the report will give you a good reasons logic to follow that route, but if you are the sort of person who wants to in your ear in making a decision on the Budget, wants to actually see the budget book as well, I think it's important that councils have access to that budget. I don't carry this apply for any more minds homophobia and therefore it doesn't feel the passport arising
it spans a number of electrons on mobile was, but I'm afraid I do want when somebody gets worse than useless. Look through the members will have that access to that detail, so I will so so I think that you're right, you can always will find intercourse, improve the waffles presented, it can always rhubarb challenge, but you're going to have a balance of Councillors, always who won a very short document, and the Councillors who also going to want to look at 100 pages underneath that, and I really think we've co-locating the plant because actually that part of the purpose of having those decisions in margin groups is that you want an answer to
to somehow focus on the big picture, something focus on the detail and bring you back to the point that you missed in homes 27 1 and they did need to address because it's important and it will affect that the way to full Council at works so broadly yes we will discuss with the working group how bring forward, but I'd also the working group was
set up originally, very much from the purpose of it being leaders and representatives of each group in order that each group was sharing met within their groups and certainly very easy for me to say that's happened within my Group, but it
and I, I'd hoped his head as well in terms of the shape of things as the progress that had been shared with another groups and that we were getting pulled back from groups as we will go along that it was being formed in a way that people were we're finding acceptable so try and do so I have forgotten some of your Colombo points and I apologise, I will try to watch back on the Tate and I'll come back to you advising on Monday.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:42:58
thanks very much Councillor Peter, I think it's good timing that we've had the session ahead of your meeting on Friday, so thank thanks very much everybody for your contributions, I'm gonna move on to Councillor Fuller.
would you like to just give an introduction and the things that you
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:43:14
can do on the portfolio, that'd be really helpful, thank you, thank you Chair.
I am also going to mentally no down a couple of ideas that Councillor reductions, given the
so it's been about five minutes Mum since my last report, so this is very much just a small incremental update on previous report.
so, starting with customer service, My account take up these up to 75% as of April and inspire now obesity and we're pushing towards 80%, we're not being cynical about the chances of getting it because, actually, if you look at the take-up it's gone up by about half percent a month so I'm actually hoping we might reach it before we move to a committee system will say,
I also mentioned the morass last time take-up of the Marsh actually has gone up quite well, it's gone up to 68% rail and that's the that's an 8 8% increase on where we were in five months ago said there is some good work going on there and we're currently looking at how we can make sure that it's not a single new service as it were and that we can bring people like snakes doing a lot of work on at the moment.
in terms of the form side of things.
we are up to 36% of all transactions.
we're forms faced last month, that's up about 2% savings, about 34% in January we've because down to about 20% of transactions from 24%.
that actually represents a 15% reduction on the number of calls in June 2023 say this sort of aim of moving people away from having to fungus constantly will get an answer to do something towards being able to do it now, it seems to be progressing, as it were one thing that's going on at the moment is we're looking at.
the purpose of clause, the percentage of calls that being answered noted him.
but if you read a report that you're seeing these areas miles next.
and also the number of repeat callers were getting so that we can work out whether sort of Ancoats are things easier.
the customer access Strategy is still being reviewed, I was gonna, go slightly off piece here, I did ask you, in the last meeting to rethink existing customer Strategy and the e-mail me with any recommendations before officers started drafting, luckily for you officers have held up a bit for that but it does lead to a wider point about,
I you guys in overview and scrutiny, unusually don't see a draft policy until the age of policy, as it were, usually actually the Cabinet when it doesn't say much in terms of draft policy either, I think that it might be useful, especially under our new system if we actually had a section in meetings where we said what are the policies that are about to be absolutely no do we have any suggestions about how the existing policy work that's me done with my going office anyway, so we we we don't expect to make more progress.
on that soon, but effectively withheld of a bit because of the the Corporate Plan and the changes to that, we'll be able quantities to move on to topical questions which I hope will find some.
so we've we've kind of help on that, but I I should note there, though, that the that the newly can do bind team under Bakkies was taken out for basically all of the customer Services, some things are doing a really fantastic job.
mainly May managing to keep me afterwards random panels apart from does not on Surrey information governance we currently have 9 subject access requests and 29 other types of requests I referees decades, I think we are beginning to my Croatian progress on reaching the deadlines on that and the internal KPIs, but there is still work to do especially on subject access requests which are quite complex and,
that's the only metric that sort of went down this time with all of the others are heading in the right direction and asked.
I think we hope we're beginning to see the benefits of having a sort of a full complement of staff now because we have had staffing issues and I think that's apart from what I can see that's being demonstrated in the agreement and data breach assessment times as well pop acts obviously other areas are getting better at spotting against.
it's going to have to be monitored closely, though, and I am grateful to the team for their hard work and the while very difficult circumstances for reasons.
elections almost certainly trying to enjoy a well-earned rest of the both the PCC and the general elections this year, I don't have a huge amount to say about that, other than that, I'm really grateful to everyone that helped out the accounts for their diligence patients and the tumour and of course congratulations to Eleanor MP.
mpg I'll keep forgetting we've got to anyway the fact thanks our so far.
in IT.
the jewel in the crown
Russell Sandwell, so there are various reviews, an systems being developed, Stephen, the team are currently working on a Councillor internet on share point.
which I expect to be shared to Group leaders soon, yeah, like that not and taking on board will change to saying maybe maybe it should be shared wider than agree that the Group leaders quite saying will say.
we also, I think we Steve, is also continuing to improve the systems available for grounds maintenance and is also reviewing the the website Pottermore customer journeys and improving accessibility.
an important issue to consider.
again, as with the customer access Strategy, please read, the existing issues, will strategy we, I do actually habitual after that, I might have a quick chat which these about the fees, finally, it may just sending Atlanta members of Overview chat had excellent I'll do that but again we kind of hurdle for a bit because the digital sorry the corporate plans taking shape and,
just as with Becky said, has also taken over a newly sort of combined team and he's doing a fantastic job, not least when you note the number of side-effects and unfortunate companies around at the moment are offering on that, I suspect everybody, Mr Murphy, grateful that we're using Microsoft central rather than CrowdStrike Falcon.
but
as the next item on the agenda would be significantly more interesting if we were
so on that note, our possible.
thanks very much Councillor Hanley, yes, Adult Care is very topical the next anything that we're going to be discussing, thank you for that comprehensive update, I'm sure everybody would share what you
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:50:23
said in relation to the work that's going on among officers and those who supported through the elections process recently a huge amount of work for everybody are there questions for Councillor Fuller,
Cllr James Butcher - 0:50:36
Councillor Butcher, just on my account, and that's great about the up-to-date, do we have placement apologies? We have ever had not noticed about how those calls that a longer issues with low, how quickly they get, responded to her and her family, on which is based on anecdotal feedback from people saying, well, I think I've put some on my account bunglers forever had back, so just to know how well
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:50:59
that's working. I haven't seen that dating yet, but I'm sure it is valuable because it creates cases in South which does not say so. I
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:51:09
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:51:09
can certainly take a look at that, in turn to community. Yes, thank you Chair, yes, certainly because Webb, when, when a customer, who is a full bar account in the background to the Jessica for this area, incorporates a case
so what we can do by service area and most of them they will keep their own informal forms inspectors anyway, so in any area, due to let me know what he gets, some performance indicators out for you, how quickly they are being turned around, that's across the whole of the Council we've got performance in Kabul,
Seasalter, no, thank you.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:51:38
Councillor McConville.
thanks Gary.
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:51:47
just going back to your running your first points or just around my account and the take-up, and you said you were yeah yeah yeah quite confident getting to 80%, which is great, but obviously it's been removed as KPIs for the current year it because they feel they are and we were told at performance sub-committee that 75% was probably saturation so.
just something hugely minute yeah, maybe I'm being overly optimistic,
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:52:17
looking at just looking at the types of it's still a half, a percent say that may drop, but there are some things we are hopefully doing and certainly we discussed at the last month when meeting about having some going into the business habits Romney Marsh was yeah to to actually change some of the volunteers.
in how to sign up to want to use it.
improvements are yeah, I've naturally want more optimistic form spot on them on will try to something really hard.
but yeah, it's it keeps on neutrals ongoing and as we have more functionality and as we get more people use of more formal and also well, he's neophyte nitrate St James's non-Schengen, also needs more, not sure what works is useful services.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:53:05
Councillor Jones, are you gonna make it into an app?
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:53:07
I
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:53:11
so when we actually had a brief discussion about this probably about a year ago about the because you say, because it's because it's based on the website, there are various different options, you can go down, who handles Nick Griffin of my day job,
but you could build a completely separate mobile, which will cost you lots, and lots of money requires file for all sorts of developer accounts, and you need an expert.
but there are other options, there is a sort of hybrid approach where there are open source solutions that you need, people that know how to use those solutions as well, so there's something called a practical guide, for example the hard news on Montgomery that will realise on the American Javi involves cooking which isn't necessarily something we needed to do more so again you'd potentially following more expertise or the third and probably the more likely option.
especially as we already built mobile first, as you see effectively as a paradigm the road salts, thinking about how they look or mobile before the institutions that will look on the desktop, seven more likely scenario guide amyloid something go to progress into whether his bicycles, where add a certain amount of County, the site that allows it to be signed, see on-screen or you think Wariner rather than actually developing a separate sorry something we've sort of briefly discussed.
I don't know if we ever got into much more detail, because obviously you need to speak to Lucy and as provider and so on the provider or any software that you use and to make sure advice they've got the ability to allow you to do that, but he certainly that if we were going to look in the erection massive election once again from sort of expertise,
about the need and that the families, and necessarily until degree, it made sure that was involved.
works all our mobile.
yes, that are more than happy to discuss them at the same time.
Karim Benzema offer hours about when development yeah.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:55:29
I'm sure always that make it easier for people to do things are good.
any other questions.
I think in terms of what you were saying, Councillor Fuller, about the customer access Strategy and Digital Strategy, I think formally that the they're not coming to the Committee for discussion, but if there's an opportunity to circulate close to the Committee for us to to input if people have the capacity to do that then we're not gonna say no to that so if if we can organise that perhaps through Jake that would be really helpful,
OK, thank you very much, and thank you, Councillor Peter, you obviously welcome to stay or also welcome to Gareth Mr leave, but I think with where segue naturally, into a topic that's close to Councillor Fuller's heart and obviously welcome to contribute on this as well and we've got the weekly with us to speak to topic actions to protect the council's operations against cyberattacks Hall pastéis de to introduce societal, thank you.

6 Actions to protect the council's operations against a cyber attack

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:56:39
thank you, Chair yeah, the report you've had.
outlines measures in place which means the chances are cited as we possibly can.
got several measures that we use, the first one will not much improvement to me is is Richard meeting which agreed statement he manages the team, I've been chairing offices, and they use a variety of tools such as our networks.
protection we've got, is it lie as bicycling, and these include things like firewalls, antivirus, tropical house usually studio, access encryption and scanning and patching of systems so that they are going to go over time the few things.
we are constantly monitoring for hackers trying to get into one of work
and the systems do not this automatically and, where possible, they would actually lock them stop get into our into our areas, I also alert between of any suspicious activity when these guys I take further investigation to see what comes out.
there's also a number of filters that e-mails had to get through before returning to offices.
and the following, the one is a manual one wants to come through everything now suddenly still hasn't been quite right, it ends up in a little warranting parcel, Glen, Richard, neutralised, much guidance will say, yes, we can have that on our website didn't stop that 1 and in e-mails and correspondence Harmon e-mail because they are the biggest threat.
to us as a Council, I can contain malware which, if it gets into the system, because despite the sale and it could, Pakistan per month time, and the other one is well, is phishing attacks, and that's where they're, they're trying to retrieve personal data and the sort of tax again far more complicated and had ever been in the past.
I was recently at a conference where I is a big thing now for phishing attacks and there was a an instance where there was what the the attacker Adam was, he'd gone into his company's website, the Stanley get all the reports from the Chief Exec it, I managed to then scan Chief Executive e-mail very very close to rates the interim uses didn't really spotted.
they then got I to write an e-mail in the style of the Chief Exec for repairing towards reports, how the fabric Chief Exec would write it.
that was any globally sent out to everybody in the company. An e-mail is quite a simple one, it said I, as you know, we were really busy with context I've been coming over the next 12 months, unfortunately hepatic cancer or something to blame. Please click on the link below to see if you're impacted and when the first person Executive to 40 up our country infected absolutely everything and they with him for seven months, so that's have self-respect with getting him. That's why it's so
must be so careful e-mails and his body an absolutely fantastic job
the constantly scanning the threats and put in patches on to keep us going up to date and protect the Council from new threats.
we do daily backups, Heaven forbid, should we actually be attacked at least stored of sites, with several copies were data, and these are stored on different media, depending on what we get into help us recover from a situation people get wonderful.
we've also got another level security and that's provided by Kate BSN or the tempo public Service Network, and is widely mean for people in tenements all the councils signed up to this, there's some schools and blue light services used as well, so liquidity really trying to take forward for Italian.
at least provided a network we will sit behind NSR our infrastructure within therefore bicycling, and they're really the first line of e-mail filters to protect the Council to give you an example of sort of numbers, I have.
quarterly.
by were scan, 20 million e-mails sales every 23 months, 20 million females.
and around two thirds, the veins in tiny potential threats.
bookseller, all threats, but by project and attract an investigation on, so that's the volumes coming through gusting tenants, I mean, you can imagine globally what what we're up against now we will see a simple food or a security operation centre and that gives us a potential, further protection against cyber attack pieces by basic Need, group of individuals that monitor our systems 24 7 365 days a year
I use I right these things called known threat indicators and then looking out for any suspicious activity and so on our network, so anything is coming in our wine where it's obvious sets out the appropriate action to stop it and you are coming from Deborah pocket. The report said they blocked it, but anything else I think I'm not 100% mortgage, one of them have listened a bit further
Richard needs, they will be promptly and St, Margaret kindness rate this could be could be attracted new bicycle.
we've also recent given given the autonomy to physically shut down reporting the device if there's a Highland probability that it's been compromised side by that remote, what we're Germany's should or should not be sitting at home on a Sunday evening, working or whatever these guys to site and onstage take that properly the fact I'm just stop would not want my laptop shut down or stop.
let's say, will then be alert to the VAT and then for me to get Blackmoorfoot again, I'll take my laptop physically back into the city to get it to get it released here.
the default crisis behind that is if we give some nice and doesn't go to everybody else in the Councillor as well, so it's that ruin that that first point of action closing things down.
each year we also have a health check of our defensive and basically, which is why a group where we part company to try and hackers.
we give them a little bit of the Hadstock through some of the areas, sorry, sorry did not as sort of as hard and what it would be perhaps Ottessa, we will let me give you a few Wi-Fried firewalls and and then any potential one which is I find I reported back to the guys like spending next time when we get the voluntary for countries are highly in human-like, obviously the high ones which only single work on first of all I may take the appropriate action to remedy any any of them.
so I think, really combination will the of the admin ensures that, whereas security can be?
to try and protect the data we hold about our residents or any other party, that's interacted with the council, the best way of looking at it and also want to is, if you think the Council is to keep it by the Council, the Council scheme really framework around it, but to get it gets me indicate that you've got to get through my inner wall to get a minor will get through my outer wall to get through my outer wall with the guy with the man
so that's the defence it and how it's all right up to try and protect the council and would likely have there's a a new
cyber Assessment Framework. There's been introduced by the National Cyber security Centre and we're earlier doctors about to make sure we're on the right tracks at what that means is. We're pretending regular seminars with, as there is lots of paperwork we have to fill in. We go back to let them know what's could make, it would be brought in place and at the end of it we get an assessment, by the way, the fed back and then begin any, even what we have to go through an assault outside. We were really keen to get on board with that and since his paper was written, there's amendments be made PGCE, policy, and as to give us further protection
and the main one on there was really blocking access to officers from that quarter in mouse some people in the past, we've we've let people on your laptop, that's your Yahoo, account your Hotmail account, grow your own personal accounts.
but when an e-mail comes into our e-mail filters as three different levels, it has to get three, so any risks on those is that good work which could be affected if we, as a user allowed into my your Yahoo account and a Mighty Mouse and up an attachment malware on it striking there was no defensive at all so we actually met with British Susan on that, and she was very keen that we sort of bringing such security in place as well, so sort tightened security very seriously, the price which it, which is good.
we also have a regular simulated phishing attacks.
where we, we send e-mails to officers.
and then we actually to record
how many Philip Hammond pass et cetera, and this is also monitored by our job better, are repeat offenders, one of a better word than the appropriate actual, which I do think equal to really make sure we understand cyber security, we've got regular e-learning courses that all officers and Members needs to take on an annual basis.
and again Friday to complete this is monitored by by HR, and people have, with the particular started finding we have to chase up worker and then that just lastly say members don't fill plot, listen now on your starts, Edmondson similar actually phishing e-mails.
at up to members to help increase their awareness hopeless, giving you a broad understanding of some of the battles were up against the environment, within maternity.
indeed, you no idea of the number of tax McGettigan coming in Scirea amendments or any questions from the floor, thank you very sobering
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:06:28
report, I think it if, if we had been using the system that happy she is CrowdStrike at the at the end of last week what what defences would be or would we have had in that situation?
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:06:43
effectively numb. Unfortunately, this wasn't sybarites, and this was a piece of software that was so as it is there, to protect machines and pricey. A rogue configuration group meant that he actually took the machine down our scientists. The it's actually could be worse than a cyberattack, cyberattacks can differ, but in you know a lot of cyberattacks and take time to spread from machine shaming written things of with this site CrowdStrike. If your machine. During the time when this update went out a double blue screens and we'd have staff having to bring laptop seen, you can try to bring back ourselves so.
it was a bit of a wake-up call to how cyber is the top of everyone's kind of agenda, but equally software issues can have a greater devastating effect to we're very lucky, we've got to use some of that team, will it change our approach?
I don't think it would, I think it's more about the industry changing the approach in theory thinks that it should be which will be tested, so when you releasing an update, it should be tested on different flights and machine, no, you draw on your at all in your Windows. 10 Windows 11 27,
but clearly something failed, and this update was allowed to go out for all the world, so I think it's more for the vendors is probably a bit of a an eye opener to them rainy and you know I am hoping it might change the way that things are done in that industry imagine they might be under some pressure and I now to colleagues
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:08:24
Councillor wing,
thank you Chair some a general question now.
Cllr John Wing - 1:08:33
most Members to use that Councillor equipment, I use my tablet or smartphone before I took click on wrong link, we need to set my phone, or is it somehow linked onto the Council website pensively that may consents,
would would it affect the general counsel. Will it just be more
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:08:52
isolated in it's it be royalty is a bit of a is a trickier subjects but inspiring, yes, you're right, because your your device is not directly on our network. There's less impact equally, if your device is perhaps an Android device for an Apple device, then there is there are generally less known threats with those devices
windows is very much local system in Ireland, 5 or 5 5, particularly on on his laptop, it will remove files. Is you know, you have that control? Whereas on a phone and a more mobile device, a lot of that is hidden behind sort of letter, a layer of of something that means you can't mess around with it? So yes, there is less impact from new, potentially clicking on the link and chances are, it is the right services and listen to the windows advice, probably not on what will happen, but you know with these things if we suspect and kitchen so that you shouldn't
and then please contact the service steps when we can look into it further, you might want to sort of look at who else received that e-mail, and then you know we might attention to block this person or that we might then need to bring round and saying to me once we've got any other people we might need to speak to.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:10:10
I can answer from Councillor Birch, who indicating yeah yeah good to
Cllr James Butcher - 1:10:12
hear we're gonna be tested out on our behalf, fishing awareness.
and I really do it all sounds this really impressive what we're doing to the system site and I just wanted to understand likeness into ground 2 point for guaranteed health check on the results of decisions, less does that get reported to wonder whether committing on a regular basis so we just keep in touch with the passenger looking
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:10:37
honest answer is I don't know.
sorry opinion, role for the last the last three months for such, but but I agree, it's certainly something that we, we could report normally Brady, I would get the health check back and it's very much.
internal piece of work that these guys are regularly working on reporting back to me where we are where we have a weekly catch up, so I know exactly what high risk meeting Mr got going forward, but I'm certainly going forward if you feel it's something you want to come to something that next week they can report it is not a problem and so on.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:11:10
yeah, perhaps we can think about that collectively, how that might work.
Councillor Martin
thank you for your presentation is very informative and I just wonder
Cllr Elaine Martin - 1:11:23
if their knees or statutory requirement to report any serious cyber attacks or cyber-threats.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:11:35
yes, there is actually if we do have an attack.
most common ones are, they are a disagree.
satisfactory. I see I much Commissioner's office and again along with the cyber attack we've begun to cyber attack as well, if it is not a data breach, we still have to report to the ICC.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:11:57
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:11:59
Councillor painted needs to come in thinking I just briefly, one of the points that would bring up in this is that Walter basis, vectors of cybercrime are staff and councillors, people who have access to the systems music, along with the Brighton conference.
so, on the 26th February presents, all councillors were asked all sitting Councillors at that time on the Councillor Hills, past all sitting Councillors at that time were asked to do a cybersecurity module training, module e-mail on 26 February.
I was at the 26th of March, so this is long enough past history, you can add that there doesn't count as update information, 28 councillors had not done much training to head, and I wouldn't be telling this story if it wasn't wonderful.
I also on the same e-mail that I got that piece of information got slapped my own cybersecurity crime, but I'm not going to tell you about that.
but just to say that if Councillors Councillors are as important in making sure that we are keeping our systems, secure our staff and Dublin and the mechanisms such rich instinct put in place at that stage, so aid efficient tests are being were actually there was one done in March subsequent e-mail to the Councillors Commission didn't see it then you should have done the trading first.
it is important when you're asked to do that side, the street trading, not just as part of the re, not just par, because we've done the training part of a reassurance to the organisation, but you've taken this stuff seriously as well as an overview and scrutiny committee the purpose of having this paper in front of you is to make sure that the organisation is taking cybersecurity seriously, taking these organisations security seriously and yet 28,030 councillors didn't do the training that they were asked to do on keeping his organisation secure and then I'll have to say that,
line.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:13:58
I had Councillor Martin wanted to come in and then a Councillor Alan
Cllr Elaine Martin - 1:14:03
Martin, after that I just wanted to point out, I tried to do mine about three days before the deadline and work quite was.
there was a problem with workforce which meant I couldn't do it, so I'm sure that affected a few of those other 28 may be.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:14:20
Councillor Alan Martin, so I'm one of the Councillors who hasn't done
Cllr Alan Martin - 1:14:25
the train and I was going to raise that from the basis that you said earlier that people chased up on these things and I haven't been so, is that something that is genuinely being chased up on as well as it should do across staff and members.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:14:43
staff certainly tries to on it on a regular basis that's from HR and then even emergencies increased where required.
members being chased so much, and Councillor Martin, quite like the Board of probably weren't right members were struggling to get into systems were actually do it, so there has been a little bit of a stay of execution, I think are members at the moment, but I have confirmed that they weren't right is now up and running south of praise, urge you all to get on their under execution seems harsh, but,
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:15:14
I mean, I think part of the importance of having this session is to raise awareness. Isn't it among councillors, and sometimes that is it's helpful to have face-to-face discussions, not just an e-mail coming round. I mean, I'm happy to confess on one of the councils that haven't done it either, but I think maybe if it could be re-circulated to people, particularly perhaps in the wake of what happened last week. It might be a good incentive, and I'm sure that all of us who have now been publicly shamed by Councillor Prater will be more keen to follow up. And that's a good start, isn't it, because at least if, if, if you know we can lead by example as a committee, that's gonna be helpful. More generally, I do recognise that the Council get
Councillor Hills,
thank you, Chair yeah.
Councillor Tony Hills - 1:16:03
it's not really a question which was thinking, I suppose.
at county
I feel it's got so intrusive what we do know that other Members there at County are using your own laptops.
because the one place replacement the fantastic.
but they are changing as we get into short lengths passwords every three months, 14 characters long, and we have ITV every Council meeting to assist members in some all Members, I'm not, particularly because pupils this works and it is getting more and more complicated. He said, I suppose, insert web self defeating emerges if you don't make it easier for councils, is the your work, the outlined other ways of not using your care, which makes them more vulnerable, and so it is us, so it's can have been few millionaire to work with the capabilities I have argued for a long while at Council exactly should have two systems, one purpose and one for everything else which contains ground job. So if you don't want and that anything you nets extra dilemma
and I hope you have more sympathy for that. I'll go to the train,
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:17:21
thank you for that public commitment to Councillor Helen.
any other comments, Councillor Elaine Martin, thank you Chair.
Cllr Elaine Martin - 1:17:29
just sorry, there was some point tell me, was just making Councillor Hills just making.
at the bitchy at the beginning of this council were my second New Court Max history system and the kind of producing the Council's, we didn't really realise why, and only to discover at passwords have been charged and it was almost complete chaos crew for a day while no one could get into the system so I just really wondering if there could be some.
properly now, but we know it's going to happen, but you know if there could be some advanced warning that this is going to happen thanks.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:18:14
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:18:18
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:18:18
Councillor Campbell, do you want to come in on on the same point, o
Cllr Connor McConville - 1:18:22
I'm going to say that I mean I had a phone call from from someone from the council?
we gave me my password over the new password over the phone a few days before the deadline, so I assume that everyone that it happened to everyone.
it seems there might be mixed experiences in in that regard.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:18:37
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:18:41
See did you want to come in yeah, I'll certainly take that on board and make sure we get the correct communication now into our manufacturing future, so apologies if you've got.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:18:51
OK if there's no other comments or questions were asked to note this report, so can we do that please collectively are we happy to note, yeah, that's great, thank you very much, and thanks very much Stephen Richardson came to the Committee and that continues the meeting for this evening have a good evening.