Planning and Licensing Committee - Tuesday 13 August 2024, 7:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Planning and Licensing Committee
Tuesday, 13th August 2024 at 7:00pm 

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  1. Cllr Jackie Meade
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  3. Mr Alex Baker
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  1. Llywelyn Lloyd
  2. Microphone Forty
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  7. Cllr Gary Fuller
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  11. Cllr Paul Thomas
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  13. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  14. Cllr Jackie Meade
  15. Cllr Clive Goddard
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  17. Cllr Jackie Meade
  18. Cllr Mike Blakemore
  19. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
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  24. Cllr Nicola Keen
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  26. Cllr Jackie Meade
  27. Cllr Tony Cooper
  28. Llywelyn Lloyd
  29. Cllr Tony Cooper
  30. Cllr Jackie Meade
  31. Cllr Clive Goddard
  32. Cllr Jackie Meade
  33. Cllr Gary Fuller
  34. Llywelyn Lloyd
  35. Cllr Gary Fuller
  36. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  37. Llywelyn Lloyd
  38. Cllr Jackie Meade
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  40. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  41. Cllr Jackie Meade
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  45. Llywelyn Lloyd
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  20. Llywelyn Lloyd
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  22. Cllr Jackie Meade
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  25. Webcast Finished

Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:00:00
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:00:03
good evening and welcome to the meeting with the Planning and Licensing Committee. This meeting will be webcast live to the internet. For those of you who do not wish to be recorded or filled, you will need to link to the Cabinet chamber for members, officers and others speaking at the meeting. It is important that WYCA frenzy used so that views on the webcast and others in the room my here you, would anyone with a mobile phone police switched to silent as they can be distracting? I would like to remind Members that, although we all have strong opinions or matters under consideration, it is important to treat members officers and public speakers with respect
some members, as Chair of this Committee, I would like to make a statement for the benefit of all Councillors, present at this meeting of members of the public, the applications before you tonight, and indeed any applications you considering the future must be considered on planning merits only it is essential that members adhere to this principle and ensure that their decisions tonight are based on the papers before you and any information provided to you during this meeting.
this is not prone to discuss any ancillary issues relating to planning applications before so we will move on.

1 Apologies for Absence

2 Declarations of Interest

do we have any apologies for absence, please, thank you, Chair, and
Mr Alex Baker - 0:01:24
we've received apologies from Councillor Jones, Councillor Birch's here, as her substitutes our procedures, apologies from Councillor
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:01:32
Hawksbee, thank you welcome, Councillor Richard, do we have any declarations of interest to renew the licence to seek in Greece?
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:01:41
are you seeing shaking of heads ceremony to get us underway?

3 Minutes

you have in front of you and the minutes of the Licensing Sub-Committee of the 22 of July, may I take these as a correct record and signed place.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:02:05
thank you will also help the minutes of the meeting held here on the 16th of July, which you should have been able to read through, can I take these as a correct record and signed increase.

5 23/0963/FH - Folkestone Garden Centre, Canterbury Road, Swingfield Minnis, CT15 7HX

Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:02:20
thank you very much, so we move on to our first application this evening, which is 23 dash on Green 6 3 dash H, which is Folkestone Garden Centre in Canterbury Road Swingfield minutes do we have any updates, please?
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:02:38
there are no updates tonight, thank you very much, so in that case we will move on to our speakers, and I'd like to remind all speakers that you have three minutes to put your case across.
you will be given a warning to your be your right-hand side, you'll see an orange card go up, which will give you information that you have one minute left, if you run up to your three minutes, I will ask you to finish the sentence that you're on, thank you very much. So can we have prepared to speak this evening please, which is growing since he was a local resident, to speak against the application if you'd like to come forward stuck, and your three minutes will stop when you do. Thank you
Microphone Forty - 0:03:31
good evening, members of the Planning Committee, I appreciate the opportunity to speak today and are represent the views of interested residents I'm here to strongly object to the planning application 2 3 09 6 3 stroke F haitch, which should be seeks full planning permission for Gardens into works in outline planning permission for the erection of non-commercial stables associated parking, access and landscaping.
primary concerns the proposed site is a national landscape previously referred to as Area of outstanding natural beauty and has been read untended grassland in the last for the last 30 years, the Multi Agency, geographic information magic, provides geographic information about the natural environment from across government and through the living England habitat for use for map it clearly identifies the field as acidic count carers natural grassland,
this unique ecological value must be preserved, can Wildlife Trust states to grassland is increasingly rare habitat, rich in biodiversity and significantly threatened conservation efforts are crucial to protect and restore these areas, government legislation in December 2023, the levelling up and Regeneration Act 2023 was introduced.
it strengthens the duty of local authorities to conserve and enhance areas of natural beauty. These places much stronger active responsibility on Folkestone and Hythe District Council to avoid harm to protect landscapes. This go beyond the proposed mitigation providing replacement ecology areas, environment and nature impact. The development would eradicate habitats for protected species such as skylarks, buzzards, red kites, bats and badgers. The impact of these endangered species has not been thoroughly considered floodplain identification. The applicants own flood risk assessment identifies the field for this stables as a flood plain
making it unsuitable for proposed purpose, the risk of contamination from runoff waste is significant, particularly the impact of tetanus, which is inherent with horse waste, other elements of ambiguity regarding the stable the applicant is not engaged with the closest neighbour through this process regarding a proposed stables.
reflecting an absence of care for impacted residents, the proposals lacked sufficient detail, the scale appears disproportionate to the proposed use, there is an absence of land management plan and to scale drawings, the original plans of the stay rolling 3 non-commercial horse free non-commercial horse it has now been increased to
initially, three to four leaving material gaps in the proposal, summary Swingfield and Denton Parish Council have twice unanimously voted to reject this application.
if the garden centre application was certainly transformational last sentence, please, thank you if the government centre application was a stand-alone request, with an amended natural colour of the store building, it would likely receive residents' approval, however we urge the Council to carefully consider the points made and reject this application.
thank you, thank you, sir.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:07:20
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:07:21
welcome Councillor programme.
yes, eating, and that's just going to say that softened catching breast-cancer for non guessing, it's the buses again.
the first question is, do you have anything to disclose?
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:07:41
the where already agent, who's speaking on 14 comma road, my son, is in the same house or was in the same cars as their charm.
but I don't think there for thanks to pioneering interest, to be honest, and my second question is, I saw you come to the door justice,
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:07:58
the first speaker started speaking, did you hear everything that he said added, yes, thank you very much.
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:08:05
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:08:08
so we now have the second speaker, which was Edward balance, who is going to speak on behalf of the applicant, would you like to come boards', and you have three minutes from when you start.
Microphone Forty - 0:08:30
good evening, Councillors, ladies and gentlemen.
the Folkestone garden centre site, formerly with parlance gotten in Butterfly World, has been trading as a garden since I since around 1970 prior to this back in the 19 20s, it was a nursery growing and selling plants both locally and regionally, the main garden centuries flanked by the now overgrown old nursery production areas to the north and south.
we grow more garden centres, are family-run Kent based business, we're pleased to win the receive and to see the sit receivership fitting to take over the site in March 2016 featuring several property developers and others, and it was nice this, our neighbours were pleased it is going to remain a garden centre and not be several hundred powerhouses since they first thought.
the site was a total mess after six weeks of clearing mountains role, stop fixtures, accumulated rubbish and detonated growing plants, improving drainage and rewiring the old electrics we managed to reopen, despite a very outdated facilities, health and safety management has been difficult, it's taken the business seven years of trading to generate enough money to reroute Aliki main building which we did in 2013 profits have been small which we should be party to dilapidated facilities and the high costs of running the site.
this is why we now seeking to make improvements to the site, to help make the garden centre once more sustainable than commercially competitive, whilst helping it to reinforce its presence as a community asset and contribute to the local rural economy.
we are here today to discuss the scheme report forward, which includes refurbishment and extension of the existing garden centre alongside improvements and enhancements to the site. Landscaping car park outline proposals for a small-scale, stable facility. Our focus has always been on creating a high quality, economically sustainable local business, part of which is making appropriate the best use that redundant parts of the site. For this reason, the scheme, as originally submitted, include a small housing element simply to help raise funds for the Garden Centre to try and develop. However, having listened closely, it's listen closely to concerns raised by the Council's
consultees and neighbours, this has been removed from the application, the proposed stables to the rear of the site remains part of the application and provides an appropriate use of land, which is supported by officers and which will provide an important contribution towards funding the wider business enhancement.
we are aware of concerns have been raised in relation to the staples which reiterates his case. Officer has at the stables, are in an appropriate location within the countryside. They're not intended to be used for commercial operation, but instead privately by local equine enthusiasts, so very little traffic. The design of the stables be subject to further consideration at reserved matters, stay with officers and Councillors, additional control over the design and also providing you with further opportunity to comment on the latest stage premieres maps. The proposals are huddled is clear that the site deliberately so desperately needs upgrading. This will not only provide an opportunity to enhance and extend the existing centres to help the site remain competitive in the long term. It will also help improve the visual setting of the site its environment so that, in recognition of intensely thinking, the proposal will help us work towards improvement, citing passing, setting and also secure and expand. Although the Local expand a local business will and will help make it better established as part of the community where they are looking for looking for support from the Council, the Parish, Council and neighbours
I unexplained recommending and resolving this application, thank you
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:12:11
very much, so so we've had the speakers over two Councillors, does anyone have any questions or anything they'd like to raise Councillors Thomas?
thank you Chair just a couple of things from me.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:12:23
I just listening to some of the comments from the head tonight,
I noticed in the Section 3 7 2 3 7 3 of the report associated with biodiversity net gain that shows that for several free shows adequate habitat creation based on the losses that predicted, so I'm I'm not quite sure how I think that's probably the first time we've seen when in this level of detail and I have to say it's an excellent report and very easy to read them and for us to do what we need to do.
so I just want to ask the officer if, if that is something, that's in terms of habitat creation is something that will be enforced through a condition or something of that nature, thank you, thank you.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:13:06
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:13:18
thank you and Saudi and biodiversity net gang plan, and it's actually because his application submitted some time ago, I don't even have to meet the their current national requirements, however they they are doing a lot of net gain with this with this particular scheme and it's all wrapped up with the conditions for the biodiversity and the landscaping and things like that so yeah there's no reason to think that that's not realistic to expect that to happen.
if I may just be just 1 1, opening it in the in reports, sorry to heroic Council said that they support the full planning permission, but they have reservations which have been echoed in what we had to mark for the outline planning, one item which used in is in relation to a resident comments associated with right of way but I didn't read anything in the report which said there was any any changes to any public Rights of Way so again I didn't know if that was something that would need to be commented on.
or always valid for this application, thank you, and just to come back on that there are nearby Rights of Way, but none are directly affected by this particular development.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:14:44
Councillor Glover, bringing Chair yeah, echo Councillor Thomas, is.
Cllr Clive Goddard - 0:14:49
questions and
observation about the report easier reunion, another erection it will report by Annex or can't see a lot longer, is offering eight ticks all the boxes it's you know, as the description says, demolition of existing greenhouse store buildings and it's all being rebuilt, no caffeine and kitchen WC for an extension Law, blah blah sort causing another small business surviving, what's been a difficult few years, and in our employment within all Library so no issues with may move the recommendation?
thank you amendment, Councillor Betson, please.
Cllr James Butcher - 0:15:30
we try another microphone.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:15:32
paragraph
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:15:35
yes, just to echo Councillor Gennady, it's really encouraging to see a local business being followed and expanding is exactly what we want to see at the same time is clearly a balance and will be an impact on the National landscape, so I'm particularly interested in in the comments received from the National Land one of them but I couldn't see reflected in reports about lighting so in.
comments they talk about the proposed lighting scheme has been designed to comply with the into classification, rather than one said that was my first question about.
how come it isn't the classification of national landscape suggesting shipping?
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:16:24
thank you, and just to clarify the applicant's has submitted an amended lighting design and plan and in line with the comments of the National landscapes Unit, so the new strategy as considered for light spill includes a variety of different lightbulbs, including any D streetlights postcards Danny De nights it would also be on the Tyner said at night-time the
that the that there would be no impact from the lights, it will be in accordance with British Standard, and also they'll be these motorised block blackout blinds within the rooflights, to prevent additional light spill as well, and just clarify as well, because I think this was raised by one of the neighbours, is that there's no lighting at the moment proposed for the stables, now sort of
floodlights or anything, and there is a condition that prevents any additional lighting without the consent that the Council, so you know if, if there was to be some lighting associated with the stables element, then we could certainly consider that or reserved matters
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:17:27
stage. Thank you, Chair, just to clarify, then just does everything you say means it would then comply with the new one classification.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:17:35
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:17:37
Yes, the the other issue, the national landscape razor about the colours
and the response to that seems to be well with the browning prisoners, but that's clearly got to be weighed against visual amenity with that, and so therefore it is not possible for one trust, insist on colours that meet the expectations of the national landscape.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:18:02
thank you, and that's certainly something for members to consider the national landscape unit were replaced with the amended drawings in as much as the external materials with the cladding had been changed and to deal with some of their concerns initially, but there was a remaining
concern from them that they felt that the grey
Ruth colour.
should be changed to, or something more green, because of the backdrop with the woodland officers have taken the view that the existing building already has a grey roof and the blue flashing around the age, which is another thing that the National landscape with rather not say but that does feature on the existing building is the corporate colours of the company but if Members you know would,
would wish to push towards the extension, perhaps having a green coloured roof, then that's certainly something you can can request and we could make them secure that by conditions that's what you wanted.
yeah, I mean, I guess that maintenance this kind of weighing up the interests of the business and the landscaping because business has changed their colours, business gets old, so thank you, Councillor Mitchell, Morgan Paul, to pay attention to what was going to be suitable for the environment.
good turn.
sorry, can I just ask about the stables because the
Elizabeth can't quite find memorable where it talks about part of the kind of viability the whole development involves sustainable return, fully understand, given that a private recent says our that have that contributes to the capital cost of the development, is not someone your caravan,
and this year I mean it's not really something that would weighed up in the planning balance had that the the applicant has stated that the
the ability to I don't know if it's either to sell or to rent out the stables to somebody would you know, helps with the viability of the business brings a bit of extra money and but it's never been considered as a commercial use as such, it would be literally for or a private,
user and that would be controlled by condition as well.
and just gonna question about the opening hours, and concerns for Sunday's will be tend to call for.
which is more, has obviously this thousand Matthew, or is it as it does it mean to answering a small with its to allow for the staff to come, open out and close up?
have you had your answers, I guess the other one was, it was just about the parking and again whether the the latest designs means the concerns of the national landscape about you know they will do nothing running for the philanthropy, both Malcolm with her,
your advises that that now means that police on the the amended scheme dozen created, some new street is and trees within the car park and, as officers were satisfied that that that is acceptable here.
Councillor again.
yeah, and it's adjustments check.
Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:21:23
I just wanted to check that the site licence can't be restricted on time for lighting unusable.
for the welfare of the animal, and they're gonna need lighting in the winter months, I think something needs to be put into place about that if they're going to have lied to me shouldn't impact on the neighbours, but you can't say there'd be no lighting and the stables after four o'clock the deadening possible.
and it was animal welfare, landlords, ill, they're gonna need lighting, so there's going to have to being 24 hour lighting in Istanbul, so can I just check that is right and not?
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:21:57
yet just just to clarify the lighting design that that's been submitted, the
the the proposals all relate to the garden centre, part of the development, because the stables application is in outline at the moment we don't have the details, is this the finer details of we don't know how big they're gonna be able to get in having Staples is going to be and we would expect that level of detail with the lighting to come in with the reserved matters application will consider that and,
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:22:32
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:22:34
thank you, Councillor, confirmed, Franju could ask you say the it in respect of the stables as it's a question of outline, when would we know that?
so what proposals in the way of a country once because it will be interesting, managed to make a decision in respect of interest for us to I mean an outline application, could mean basically anything entering performance for now, so do we know what those plans would take place?
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:22:57
thanks Chair tonight as Councillors, you are being asked to celebrate the principle of a stable in that field warrior identifies is acceptable.
the Council's policies identify the stables in rural area, are generally acceptable, subject to overall spots, scale and controls to a degree on fencing and certain amounts of lighting, but Councillor Keens point is that Martin for stables for welfare is obviously essential but lighting around the rest of the area where the horses might be drained and already is a different matter, but tonight you're giving issued to approve it an in principle agreement to yes a staple on this field, it's not agreeing to the whole site being covered in anything else other than a stable block.
in the area that is currently being shown.
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:23:48
thank you for a standard, given what Councillor Roger has been saying for regardless keeps people importance, et cetera, otherwise approach is certainly not.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:23:57
we actually haven't had opposing it.
you did propose it, Councillor goddammit when you say it site layout all the Catholics I didn't catch it, thank you know, yeah I'll move the recommendation was for the
Cllr Clive Goddard - 0:24:11
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:24:12
thank you and we have a secondary isn't we have Councillor Fuller would like to speak picture, I just had one question really on the on the comments from the
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:24:24
the main, I'm sorry, the national landscape unit, you'll get that.
they were concerned about the landscaping at the front, our reasoning for not suggesting that they do that was visibility, splays and attracting passing trade, I get that, we probably don't want to break or disability slightly, so to speak, but I I don't quite understand why when getting trade overrides making the area more beautiful pizza,
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:24:58
I suppose there are two aspects to that the first one is visibility, splays for vegetation outside of their boundary at the front needs to be protected.
safe and dressing ancient into the site, so I think there is a very valid we're not set at the moment the site exists there are, there is no landscaping there, we obviously increasing the built form slightly, but there is obviously a, but also more and additional landscaping is being proposed within the site. We are balancing act, as the Council's officers will the sort of the recommendations of the
Kent national landscape units, and they are there recommendations, with their focus very much on national landscape, against the economic requirements of the MDBs, to balance everything in the round around sustainable development, we don't think that the level of landscaping is unacceptable. We think it strikes the right balance, dismissed the applicant, might say we need visibility and needs to have a presence.
but I suppose if we were to landscape it further, we then have the impact potentially of further advertisements out on the street frontage trying to draw attention to the business, so there is that balancing act or as the consequence of one over the other.
if Members felt very strongly about the need for additional planting, the the applicant has suggested the could fill in the gaps within the landscaping of the hedging, as requested by national Appleton but significant additional landscaping we don't focus offices is this justified given the cycle redundancy?
OK, thanks to Councillor Paul Greatwood.
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:26:30
thank you, Chair, and I have a question about the energy Strategy
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:26:38
about. First of all, I wanted to say how good it is to see that a high ratio BB charge points. I think it works out by my masseur at 15, going in from day one with an additional 15 passive provision, so to be used as and when the need arises. So that's really good borough paragraph 3.7 5 there seems to be an implication that renewable technology would be introduced only as a secondary measure, if necessary, to comply with building regulations, and my question is such shouldn't Reiner stone-age be asking for solar panels to be installed, a standard
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:27:19
thank you, and well forecast model, or the government are very clear, the planning authority cannot set regulations over and above building regulations for the construction of buildings we can and we do, impose planning policies which require a betterment over the Building Regulations in some respects.
and we require some buildings to required BREEAM.
but that isn't something that applies to everything and we can't force people to do it, they need to meet the policy in a very, there are a number of different ways of meeting needs.
so in this case we can't force them to put solar panels on, they peppered the ability to try and achieve their aims in in a varying number where it could be fabric, first of all, we know there has to be the option available for them.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:28:08
Councillor Mark Noble thank you Chair.
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:28:11
so I also welcome the application in terms of the extra employment little.
provide, but just swerving back to where we've begun with biodiversity. And the first speaker spoke about the loss of Kent grassland and, however, as I presume, that's the field where the stable will eventually be built. So there's a lot of detail in here is, as other Members have mentioned, about biodiversity net gain. Despite the fact we are losing quite a few trees. Nevertheless, there is a lot of detail in there about biodiversity gain. My question really is where you have a rare habitat Kent grass and which is in short supply. Does the biodiversity net gain outweigh the loss of
are a rare landscape like paint grassland and others just one outweigh the other, or would we in some cases think no, this landscape, it may not have biodiversity, but it is nevertheless valuable to retain on its own merits that makes sense.
and
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:29:09
this site doesn't baker's and chalk grassland, which is a type of particular habitat that is of importance and it is a type of where habitat, but it's not the only area that type of habitat in this location I mean the adjoining some of the adjoining fields have been more intensively farmed said they'd got different value as well, but there are other areas of this grassland within the
facility at the site. In addition, the application has been considered by our colleagues at Kent County Council, who would comment on the loss of those types of habitats, and they don't raise any objections to the proposal on the grounds of that loss. You know the the the field itself is only gonna have actually a very small amount of development on it granted, it wouldn't be grazed by horses, but I mean it could be used for grazing in Roe without the need for any kind of consent from the Council.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:30:19
thank you only, we just want to comment, but it is good to see a local business actually managing to expand, sorry, congratulations to the applicant on this, I totally understand about the concerns and the Wanderers team and the stables we have a proposer and a seconder.
Councillor, we've got our did, you want to speak again of just showing about this previously going on by the Aussies in hospitals or
Cllr Clive Goddard - 0:30:45
ensuring, we're gonna say, frankly detour your John Gosden down, there always are, you know, I think it's just on a very small child exploiting the question I will District Council Godardian certainly
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:30:57
that came Iconia is regarding the colour of the roof,
where at the moment I think it's loom with a stripe.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:31:09
it's it's at the moment, the extension would have a grey coloured raised with some glee is rushing.
but the national landscape unit was suggested that a Mogherini colour for the extension might be better, I have discussed this with the applicant's agent, and if Members wish, we could require the final colour of the roof to be secured by condition, with his amendment, the interiors conditioned to them so that they need to submit that because the national landscape of actually suggested a sort of a range of colours as well so they can go away and have a look at that.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:31:53
without just one, for before, you will make a decision on that one.
the existing building we can remain grow in the next building could have a different coloured roof, so when you're wearing this up, I would suggest to think about the whole building and how you feel about being two different colours.
and make it wouldn't be assessing that having.
I can see why than A&E new format will be in St national Ramsgate unit would prefer a dark colour, as it was across the whole piece, to a loss of sentencing that I think you need to weigh up two different buildings and whether that draws more function to offer a more assessing that across the whole.
yeah
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:32:35
I am quite happy with
Cllr Clive Goddard - 0:32:39
new Lloyd rewinding, because obviously Scott foreign laws wording and the conditions of remote et cetera, et cetera, you know what we're going to college Wayne glow and local sorting out the wording they already, you can go either the applicant's representative during the in the audience or solve I can type back what was being said how it's being setting or you are in our
there's all sorts of businesses oncology, so for hacking victims second was happy future, why talk a bit more of an informative talk with him and tiger that will?
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:33:19
thank you, so we will leave at the hands of the offices if we agree this particular proposal, for we have one person in front of us at the moment, which has been punched by Councillor Goddard, seconded by Councillor Cooper, although some fine depletion and,
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:33:36
thank you those against.
Mr Alex Baker - 0:33:49
there was Tenant very much, thank you tell you a flavour, so that has passed, thank you.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:33:51
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:33:59
so we move on to our second application, seeking which is 24 dash 0 4 8 2 dash if H, which is flattery, 14, Road Folkestone don't have any updates, please good evening Chair just want update that's been
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:34:14
brought to our attention that there is conflicting statements beginning of the report regarding the recommendation, however I can confirm that the recommendation is to approve the application subject to conditions set out at the end of the report.

7 24/0482/FH - Flat A 14 Connaught Road, Folkestone, CT20 1DA

Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:34:28
thank you very much and we have one speaker on this, which is Michelle and Shaw, who's the agent to speak in support of the application if you'd like to come forward, and your three minutes will start when using thank you.
Microphone Forty - 0:34:47
good evening, members on the agent for the application, 14, a Connaught Road is a two storey maisonette, occupying the lower ground and ground floors of a large, four storey, Victorian, semi, detached property located to close to affect some town centre. The proposals are to renovate the unused two-storey maisonette into two separate two bedroom flats, the existing maisonette is currently on a habitable as it was internally stripped in order to rectify damp issues to other flats on the first and second floors are accessed via a separate side access and do not form part of this application.
cannot Road is a residential road, typically typically housing, three storey buildings, plus basements, many of which had been subdivided into flats, including the attached property number 16, which accommodates four separate flats one on each floor, within the proposals, each of the two proposed flats will have their own access from street level. The ground-floor flat will utilise the original main front door.
and access to the lower ground floor is improved by a wider shallower external steps and a small lower terrorist is created as amenity to this flat.
internal rebounding will result in both flats exceeding nationally described space standard areas, and the spread of daylight will be improved internally throughout proposed open-plan layouts in line with Policy HB 3 and existing amenity space to the rear is proposed as an improved shared amenity area to be enjoyed by the occupants of the two flats. The front wall to the pavement will be lowered marginally and metal railings introduced to ensure to increase daylight to the lower ground floor the metal rails echo boundary treatments seen on Orange
large sash windows to the front elevation on both bills will be replaced with double glazed timber sash windows to improve thermal and acoustic properties, whilst retaining the existing aesthetic and size, therefore site into the living area to the lower ground floor is largely retained as per the existing condition.
windows to the side and rear elevations are upgraded and enlarged, to increase daylight to the lower ground floor due to the existing ground levels and retain space into the rear the amenity space will not provide additional opportunities for overlooking.
secure storage for two cycles is proposed in the amenity to each flat, in line with Policy T5 on-street parking is available on Connaught Road and the site is located in a very sustainable location, a short walk can be replace supermarkets, bus stops and a 10 minute walk to the station. Therefore, in accordance with Parking Policy T2 were a maximum of 1 space per unit could be provided, additional parking does not form part of the proposals
thermal properties will be improved by the upgrade Windows. Introduction of insulation and remedial work carried out to dampens low energy appliances will be used throughout. In summary, the proposal will provide to high quality two bedroom flats designed to exceed space standards and in accordance with adopted policies HB 3 HB 82 and T5, it would improve the appearance security and thermal properties of the Victorian property as a whole and will add to the Folkestone housing provision in a sustainable residential location. We thank the planning officer for their feedback during pre upstage and we acknowledge their recommendation for approval and we would encourage Members to support the application. Thank you spot on the
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:37:56
time. Thank you so much, so only two Councillors who has anyone got any comments or any questions? They would like tools
Councillor Butcher
Cllr James Butcher - 0:38:09
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:38:11
just punted purchased point of clarity paragraphs 7.6
just to understand this bit about what is isn't a habitable room seemed to be so different definitions about Susan period, which should be saying this room says as a bathroom or kitchen, or in fact what was meant to saying, which is clarified on what the definition of a habitable habitable room Islamist comprehensive.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:38:57
I think they're just trying to find in the report for you.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:39:05
excuse me, Councillor, but shipped directly to the page number on the pack mark jumped ahead.
7 July.
it this is paragraph, this is an item 7 on the agenda of the original agenda, but now wants to Connaught Road.
yes, I think you've come across yourself that this is the kind of urgent as any other Councillor Harris something Councillor below yeah,
Cllr Clive Goddard - 0:39:40
thank you, Chairman yeah, to north of small properties, just what you need infarction to cycle storage, Edinburgh to Pepe published,
recommendation, do we have a second degree Councillor to loofah, we'd like to speak, yeah, he thought could proceed and I'm happy to second
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:39:57
and again I think in the report states that there were two previous applications were refused, 7.8 of the report shows that both those considerations from previous applications have been addressed. So again, I'm happy to second this this application paperwork. Thank you
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:40:11
very much. Would anyone else like to ask a question or make a comment and not seeing anybody so we have before us what the Council, and that is to accept the officer's recommendation, as proposed by Councillor Gordon seconded by Councillor Thomas, all those in favour, please raise your
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:40:31
and I can see that she nameless me is passed, thank you very much.

8 22/1950/FH - Land Rear of 38 Burrow Road, Folkestone, CT19 6DJ

Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:40:51
thank you, so we move on to 22 dash 1 growing formed 0 gosh as each, which is the land really 38 borrowing in Frankston, do you have any updates case?
Mr Robert Allan - 0:41:05
thank you, Chair now updates and I would make a very small correction that be an application description.
this is one two bed houses, it's one bed house and that errors carried out within sub-paragraph 3.1
other than that, everything is actually correct rather than the way,
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:41:26
thank you very much, and we had one speak when this and let his name, those who is a local resident, spoke against the application, if you'd like to come forward.
Good evening Mary.
good evening and have three minutes from when you start.
Microphone Forty - 0:41:43
thank you Chair, how our councillors, I just want to say that this whole area of the application is a very narrow, Victorian streets, they were not built with parking in mind, the whole area is densely populated and consists of terraced housing of two storey and Borough Road and two storey and Penfold night.
there is only one way in one way out of this area, there are no turning points, the bin lorries even struggle to get in and out they have to go in backwards and only go part of the road because they can't get the full room, emergency services will not be able to gain access to this site especially towards where the flats are proposed.
the garages of the site where abandon
we're not abandoned, they were still used and were asked to be vacated by the owner of the site, the application is too small, it's overdeveloped, its overbearing does take away the privacy of rear gardens, are both Penfold Road and Barlow Road.
it's not in keeping with the terraced housing
there is light issues, there's shadowing issues, and that is not to say that residents are not against and rebuilding in their whatsoever the flats.
go from one side of Penfro Road, with very small gardens to the other side of Burrows very small gardens, it will impact on their privacy and light, the House is the most bizarre and shape it's a very small house and of no significance and no not in keeping with anything.
you could put a how for longer terrace songs at the front meeting, all the requirements of the terrorists and could go back for a full story, and also a four bedroom house, nice garden, nice, garage, something that had been much so much nicer and so much in keeping with the Victorian site that's there so nobody is really against it what we do have a little bit of concern about is why this application was not determined.
and why, all of a sudden it's rushed from one week of as finding out this in appeal to a week, and it's coming here all of sudden, just fear that its circumvention local democracy by the applicant being able to do that, but I know that's in the rules but it just does seem board you couldn't determine it within 20 months but now you recommend it to be approved first make sense, thank you.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:43:56
thank you and.
that's the only speak we have released eventually, Rights Committee wrote to Mr Lloyd regarding.
the most issue, the term miracles waste, please, thank you, Chair, I marked for to my colleague Mr Allen at some point, but I will do my best, the application was being considered by the Planning Officer and the applicant's was in discussions with the case officer.
for a period of time, the application did take a long good at all, while we sorts amendments to that schemes to be described in this application to overcome concerns raised by residents who were consulted.
the applicants, we do not know why it has decided to not wait for the council to make a recommendation, but has gone to non determination, as they are entitled to do so once the statutory time period expires.
in this case, officers, had they had time, would have recommended approval for the application under the standard constitutional matters.
and that's where we are now in a position where jurisdiction for determining this planning, application has been handed to the Planning Inspectorate to the secretary of State.
so tonight shall not making a decision, you are either endorsing the officer's recommendation that we would have agreed that we might come to a different decision, in which case you would have to set out your reasons for refusal for doing so, that will then become the case for the Council to defend at appeal.
all residents comments on the file will be forwarded to the Planning, Inspectorate and residents will have the opportunity to comment on the application directly to the Planning Inspectorate.
and the Planning Inspectorate to him on behalf of the secretary of State will then reach decision on this application one way or the other, so tonight's we're asking you to endorse officers recommendation and so that when you go to the which submit our application to appeal, we would say we would have appealed, we would have recommended approval subject to the following conditions, alternatively, if Members take a different view it'll be over to yourselves and seeking to identify the planning hardens.
and to identify the planning reasons for doing so.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:46:09
thank you very much, 0 2 Councillors, unless anyone has any questions or any comments that I'd like to raise.
Councillor K,
Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:46:22
coming up, and I agree with Mrs loss.
this area is a tiny area and we just asking for trouble.
nearly everything in Italy list resonates with may for the area, the lack of parking is out of the streetscene.
I mean, it goes on and on and every single thing there, apart from probably the loss of blotting, I'm not sure about that, the privacy of those residents that live there is paramount their homes, so I will be voting against this multiple separate, I will say it works or not.
Councillor Ward,
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:46:59
Cllr Belinda Walker - 0:47:02
yeah, I share the concerns, as Lord North, as expressed about the extra vehicles, it is a particularly difficult road, stronger down-home parking is, as it stands, little tight corners.
vehicles reversing there have been accidents were.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:47:18
thank you, Councillor Mike Newell.
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:47:22
I will look at the comments of which there are many, some of them are the same because it's coming round again, but nevertheless lots of opposition from local residents of seasonal strong feelings, the things that seemed to run through the or loss of light privacy and overlooking and then the access of that Fire Service I just wondered whether Oscar officers could explain a little bit more about why they feel they are right and these objections are wrong on those counts, thank you.
thank you Chair.
Mr Robert Allan - 0:47:53
Fire Service has had sight of the proposal and within the consultees response, section 5.1 Kent Fire and Rescue happy that the emergency access requirements
for the Fire and Rescue Service appear to have been met, so from that point.
officers obviously happier that, in terms of the parking the as it sets out in the report, be all parking dip demands associated with the development are met, on-site bidding, the science self, there are three car parking spaces.
there is a requirement for point 6
on the ratio point to other visitors space per a unit that is unmet, so in terms of policy or some taking stance, that would round up to 1 and.
in that respect, that wouldn't be some sufficient for ground for refusal in terms of
the detrimental impacts on amenity or highway safety for the local area.
terms of light and privacy, obviously the relevant sections in the report that sort of addressed the amenity of both the proposed residents and and existing residents, the applicant, has done some work to move away, these larger buildings is more central building away from the boundary with properties in Penfold Road and also amendments thing that the roof profile of this this property.
and there are
set of images within the report.
which is seven eight nine, I do believe where the schemes he was submitted, shiny red red dots and then the scheme, as is currently under consideration and emit obviously officers of felt is is a positive amendment and as would be acceptable, neighbours there's also conditions controlling the imposition of any other windows in the in the in the properties.
and also securing the screening to the first floor balcony would serve only flats suicide vacated in current oriel window, which is at an angle so that it reduction could plead views out from that in any case.
think I've covered most of the points they have, something else I have missed due to us.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:50:30
thank you, Councillor.
thank you Chair.
few, hopefully, quick ones.
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:50:36
the policy requirement for Plot 1 says 58 square metres, but the other two say 50, I'm assuming that's a typo errors, though all three are one bed apartments also.
I just I would be really curious for the officers comment on the on the fact that the garden for Plot 3 is not attached to a block, for a which seems bizarre to me and also I noticed that on, obviously Klopp, when they tried to make the the front the the area as it were the gate and so on.
look relatively in keeping with the their houses, surrounded by plots, 2 and 3, looked completely different to anything in the area, I wonder why.
that is all that can be picked up on his one day.
thank you yes.
Mr Robert Allan - 0:51:29
either way, it makes 63 terms of the be areas associated with Plot 1 and and plots 2 and 3 not tie point is because they're so a two storey dwelling, there was a different area requirement for single storey dwelling, so those are at as set out in the report so that's that's bang on terms of the garden to Plot 3 not being attached to plot 3, yes, I understand the concern there or you know or at least that is an unusual arrangement.
parts of H April see HB 3 is that we seek to try and you have.
and amenity area for flats where possible, in this case they provided a bigger area than they can we get from, for example, at 1.00.5 metres deep balcony and it would provide an area for drying, perhaps bike storage or other sort of small small means and patch.
them in are attached to the property it if not physically attached, but is immediately adjacent to it, so officers felt that, on balance, that would broaden give no acceptable level of residential amenity for future occupants.
terms of Plot, 1, yes, there is, and I think, highlighted this report, there is a marked difference in design apprentices plot, 1 has been designed to reflect the sort of terrorist character and is it is strong Terrace character in the area variety of eras but you know not that sorry their own meeting to the south accessible of Edwardian Victorian style and which we try and get the detailing to match.
as close as possible, via condition with that prompt plots 2 and 3, the building there, it's very much self contained in that space there, the idea being that it could and what the architect has sort of tried to do, whether or not if you feel it successful what they've tried to do as they've gone for a contemporary version of a sort of,
in Folkestone issues suddenly see quite a lot and getting some trying limits or land or enclosed bits of land where historically there would have been commercial uses cultural activities associated workshops, historically one and that's as they are taken at which I I understand the narrative or where they've come from that and they've tried to make at St James' sort of,
culmination of interiors so that we do think it's not stand out and and it was considered in design terms at least business of itself, and contained within their that been an acceptable solution.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:54:17
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:54:22
Councillor Thomas, thank you, Chair are not merely concerned, one was touched on by one of our council were flu actually.
in image 1 from the proposed site layout
the red lined boundary shows the boundary going right up to the edge of the house itself, so currently I think they would probably have access from the site to the back which would now not be available to them and I just wonder why that boundary fence has actually gone right up to the action right onto the building itself would just seems a little bit strange that Russell I'm not saying that they should give give that particular piece of land way possible but it it is a pedestrian access that are not road access.
there is a landscaped area immediately adjacent, so you know you, you could argue that that number there, which would actually help the amenity of of Plot number 38, should actually been reconsidered, perhaps a full-time teacher.
sorry, just to clarify.
Mr Robert Allan - 0:55:26
I presume attacks pointing to their sort of North East, yes, OK.
and and
obviously, it's within the gift of the applicant to maintain or Rutland.
and perhaps in a world where people sort of did gift.
Lanza, people that that could happen, but it is not what is proposing at the moment, and I understand your your sort of.
concerned regarding that, or at least you and importantly ranking I think
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:56:02
Councillor Goonvrea, thank you.
Cllr Clive Goddard - 0:56:07
yeah like Councillor Thomas, on what surely much issue with this because offering why it was done in the report?
or looked at the issues for local residents or Councillor laws, et cetera, et cetera, that needs or wants employer as you go through the report, obviously I'm gonna, put the wedding or walk on the spot now, weakness move secretary in spite in power what do you think and the chances of the the foreign secretary of State?
determining determine I in this as it stands now, before decision.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:56:41
I think reality is as officers we recommend that there were no grounds defendable grounds to refuse this development.
in his meaningful o'clock that is currently garages underutilised, whether that's by design of the owners, currently all just through the passage of time.
the design of the house to the front reflects the street in the streetscene. The design for the Arena is quirky individual, in other words, background plots where has no context otherwise, other than flattering guarantees, relationships with neighbours whilst Close given the land level differences and existing boundaries, and the amendments officers seeing thought we believe, will be acceptable, I think, get them in this way. National policies in relation to providing houses on brownfield land, notwithstanding officers who is, I think an inspector, would place a heavy waiting on the provision of housing on previously developed land in a location where there are no great demonstrable reasons for why it's harmful. So hence our recommendation for approval to reassure Members if we thought this was refusable, we would be recommending it to you
we can understand the local concerns with infilling of plots. Sorry, I understand that the reasons and was taken quite so long to get to where it's got to, is to try and address those concerns all too, as the MP Piet requires us to try and find a positive solution to planning applications where we can,
yeah and as are taught by supply, I'll just want you to I didn't hear
Cllr Clive Goddard - 0:58:26
that because, like I say everything, I think that the issues that have been brought to the table, I think, being your report I do know answered, I think again in either reports there and it is all the answer, the query that if the queries and questions as it's gone through, the reports are happy to make recommendations.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:58:45
thank you, Councillor King.
I think the report sets.
Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:58:49
sorry, Councillor Gruen.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:58:54
the proposed do I have a seconder, please.
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:59:02
I second Councillor Fuller, thank you, Councillor King yeah, as I'll
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:59:03
Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:59:04
just say it out, to say that on the ward councillor and I and I do object because I can't see how the smart with, apart from I mean the reports excellent and I would you know what I'd expect from mobile and bat.
I just don't know how it's going to work for the people there and I think the problem being to them is they are waiting to be the area that get the most are put on them, and this is a small area and I just don't see how you can find that three cards they're going to go in that it is.
you know the one and two bedroom houses, everyone's going to have recurring, so how has back in the work they're all gonna wanna put Carlisle neuromarketing for risk to people who live in that state, reversing out there's no turning more as you turn there's only three carbon spaces, he's right up to the boundary, it's almost both intensification of this malaria.
object not, and I won't go, contraire.
thank you, Councillor Richard and Councillor Walker.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:00:10
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 1:00:11
dear, is this really to support what Councillor Fuller was saying about the plots 2 and 3, just such an odd setup with each manager amendments not living there are just to mention that the creating difficulties between the two lots it just feels like an unwise design appreciate as I support the dear providing more housing benefit each year it's just looking at issues like a really odd designs continue keep rise to problems ranged from down the line.
slogan.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:00:42
Cllr Belinda Walker - 1:00:45
you know, as I would support the idea of more housing, I'm not happy with these particularly the ones, and if these people living there could be car-free and it would be ideal but putting more cars into that road I've got experience of driving in that road have collision between striking at Loughborough of witness accident added colleagues in accident it really isn't the best place to to have extra force coming in and I'm very concerned about it.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:01:10
we're doing a real sought to raise issues, asking questions, we had one proposal in front of us at the moment and that is to accept the Officer's recommendation of approval.
all those who pay the police when shareholding.
all those against.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:01:33
Mr Alex Baker - 1:01:42
thank you, Chair at 6.00 in favour and four against thanking that
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:01:45
applications parcel if you'd like to do the appeal paperwork.
accordingly, thank you very much,

6 24/0525/FH - 35 Bradstone Avenue, Folkestone, CT19 5AG

Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:01:56
so, moving to the next application, which is 24 dash 0 5 2 5 dash F H, and this is 35 Bradstone Avenue in Folkestone, do we have any updates, please?
Mr Robert Allan - 1:02:11
thank you Chair, no updates, and I believe from our papers we have
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:02:13
more speakers thinking over two councillors with anyone looks like to ask the question or raise an issue.
Councillor Richard.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:02:24
yes, I'll ask my question there,
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 1:02:26
paragraphs 7.6,
just just to understand the decommissioning habitable room and that sentences for themselves are far from exact means serves as a rather than just what the definition of habitable is in this context.
thank you.
Mr Robert Allan - 1:02:44
habitable room is basically a lounge bedroom.
kitchen dining room and but it does exclude bathrooms from our deficient helps
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 1:03:01
so it could be habitable, then it could be a habitable room from what you said because it could be a kitchen.
Mr Robert Allan - 1:03:06
it's it's an obscure place window with a fan light on it.
I understanding CCS a bathroom.
Mr Robert Allan - 1:03:15
she says photograph, I believe.
Mr Robert Allan - 1:03:19
so I can't control the speed, it comes out, a little bit her waiting, huge anticipation of this, let's.
no, it there is a photograph of the rear elevation.
drum-roll.
Mr Robert Allan - 1:03:40
existing navigate this the neighbouring window and, as you can see the extensions, it will be there and it was considered obviously in the report that that there is no detrimental impact on on that particular road.
Even though it doesn't feel redeems the 45 degree guideline but on site the reality here is that it is, does it does not amusingly lie?
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:04:08
Councillor Paul Butler, waiting for the papers to come round, they
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:04:15
will eventually, I've got a question about the extension because it looks I glimpsed at their lack, it's already there, but in the imagery got 3.6 he has got an existing extension and the new extension.
looks to me like it fulfils is one bit and is confused about the air.
so with some of its already existing and are adding to so.
not really clear.
Mr Robert Allan - 1:04:52
so it's yet the extension is already in existence, so there they've sort of applying to retain that, and it seems to be a film off the ground floor.
blood vessel it was ready to inflict the smoke, small cut out is the wrong word, but an area that had been previously undeveloped, and then they feel the extension on the seeking, as part of this, to retain her.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:05:19
I just look towards a little bit of clarity, if only because, looking at the consultees frozen until Council rejected Pauline accommodation, the lower ground floor will that all depend on windows, etc Avenue du lower ground floor.
that is no external points storage, I believe that that has been today.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:05:44
we'll continue yesterday.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:05:49
Mr Robert Allan - 1:05:51
suddenly shot out of my ear at the sorry, I believe it's it's been designed integrally.
spoke storage within within the property, which initially we, there was an issue, because he was done very poorly, that are recommended scheme in conjunction with the Arctic's, who to make sure that there is a bespoke storage cupboard internally to meet that. Thank you very
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:06:14
much and I just want to check when it comes to an upper floor flat.
having no external immunities, I don't believe that banks, any policy.
it's.
Mr Robert Allan - 1:06:30
I mean it, as set out in the report, it was an issue in as much as where an actual amazing at property.
it doesn't have its own garden area and potentially it is capable of family occupation because it seems to two bedrooms.
the applicant,
has shown that there is been 160 metres, despite the viaduct, sorry, the yeah, right up to the there is a public park available and also this approach has been accepted at other locations where are at greater distances and it was considered that on balance, where the property itself met,
the gross internal area for at all space and it was such a short distance to a
to or public open space that could be used to amenity area, whilst it is not a sort of standardised practice, there is some leeway within the obviously HB 3 to allow for this, and it was considered on balance to be acceptable.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:07:44
thank you, Councillor Gill, thank you Chair another couple of lovely
Cllr Clive Goddard - 1:07:52
little flat just before the meeting, and no April colony occupies as well, if you know, if Councillor Shirley Porter, sorry, Councillor show, probably boundary accommodation and a lot has said in an ideal for a new the new pupils' individual pay Hornby on the on the on the property ladder so more than happy to move the recommendation.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:08:15
we have replaced with any relevant to second.
Councillor Blake Launcelot speak, mainly happy, would only ever
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:08:22
Councillor want to speak on, these are not seen many things, so we have been closer one secondary, and that is to accept the officer's.
proposal on the application and are going to find the please raise your hand.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:08:38
and I can see that China and listen that's past, and that's how dangerous the last application for the same things, so I'd like to thank you very, very much for your time keep covering this hot weather and safe journeys until next time, thank you.