Planning and Licensing Committee - Tuesday 10 September 2024, 7:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Planning and Licensing Committee
Tuesday, 10th September 2024 at 7:00pm 

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  1. Cllr Jackie Meade
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Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:00:00
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:00:00
internet for those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed, you'll need to move the Chamber for members, officers and other speaking at me until it is important that the microphones are used so that viewers on the webcast and others in the room 19 with anyone with a mobile phone police switched to silent learned as they can be distracting.
I would like to remind Members that, although we all have strong opinions or matters under consideration, it is important to treat members, officers and public speakers with respect some members.
as Chair of this Committee, I'd like to make a statement for the benefit of all Councillors presence at this meeting and for members of the public.
the applications before you tonight, and indeed any applications in considering the future must be considered on planning merits on it essential that Members adhere to this principle and ensure that their decisions tonight are based on the papers before you and any information provided to during this meeting this is not the forum to discuss any ancillary issues relating to the planning applications before we say we will move on, do we have any apologies,

1 Apologies for Absence

Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:01:17
thank you Chair, we have apologies from Councillor Fuller okay.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:01:23
thank you, Councillor, do we have any declarations of interest this evening?

2 Declarations of Interest

I am seeing no, so we will cover it as such.

3 Minutes

Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:01:38
councillors, you have before you need minutes of the meeting held on the 13th of August 2024.
can I sign them as a correct record, please?
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:01:51
thank you very much, so we'll move on to our first application this evening.

4 23/0769/FH - Land Adjoining 39 Victoria Road West, Littlestone, TN28 8ND

and that is 23 dash 0 7 6 9, dash at age, which is the land adjoining 39 Victoria Road West in little stone, and before we start, I just like to point out that there is an acronym mistake on the speakers is published and that Councillor Paul Thomas on this and the following application is not actually speaking.
as a member of the Planning Committee, he is a member of the Planning Committee and he's just doing his normal position within our Committee, the sinking there was mistakenly, so thank you, do we have any updates, please?
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:02:36
thank you Chair, returning members, and just one small update for you tonight and just to clarify that there is a typo on page 32 of the committee report, where at paragraphs 7.3 2, and just to clarify KCC rather need Local Flood Authority do not raise an objection to the application in respect of drainage matters, thank you.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:03:00
thank you very much for that clarification, so we go on to our first speak this evening.
when you come forward, you will have three minutes from when you start, if only indicate that your time is up, please finish your last sentence and that we have been your three minutes, so can we have Mr Andrew Moss who is the agent to speak in support of the application to come forward please?
good evening, so.
and your three minutes will stop unusual.
Microphone Forty - 0:03:35
Graveney Chair and Members, thank you for the opportunity to speak in support of this application, sorry sat on the agent for this application and I've been working closely with the applicants to bring this proposal forward.
as you are aware, the site is an allocated site and the Council's adopted Local Plan and benefits from outline planning permission property 80 dwellings, the site also has reserved matters approval for 80 dwellings, which was granted on appeal in January 2024 on behalf of all injuring modular, elegy modular have now gone into liquidation will not be delivering his development, however, the approval remains extent and under the ownership of the acne applicants, Town and Country Housing,
the application before you is for reserved matters, approval related to laying layout scale, landscaping and design.
the principle of development access arrangements and issues related to flood risk and biodiversity have already been established and resolved through the grant of outline planning, permission and consolidated by the reserved matters, approval for the energy scheme, in response to previous concerns raised by members and consultees, the applicant has taken significant steps to enhance the layout and design of the development going beyond what was proposed under the orangey skin.
and during the course of this application, the applicant has worked closely and productively with various consultees to resolve all comments that were raised during the course of the application.
this proposal will deliver 80 much-needed new homes of various sizes, 10 years and types, including 18 affordable homes and for custom build homes, the new homes are designed to be highly sustainable, incorporating higher fabric standards along with low carbon renewable energy systems.
the layout is consistent with the illustrative masterplan and design principles approved under the outline planning permission, the appearance and scale of the proposed development had been designed to provide a high quality environment that respects the character and appearance of the area, including a natural continuation of Victoria Road West that seamlessly blends into the vernacular obviously strength.
extensive, landscaping as a key feature of the development, creating new habitats for local wildlife, including wetland areas native planting a new grass grassland habitats, or landscaping, has also been designed to soften the appearance of the extensive drainage infrastructure which has been required by various consultees.
the proposals are compliant with the outline planning, permission, the development plan and the PPE.
they will deliver a high quality, they will deliver a high quality new homes in a sustainable location that respects and enhances the local environment, we hope that Members will vote to approve the application in line with the officers' recommendation, thank you for your time.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:06:14
thank you very much through and we have a second speech on this this evening, which is a local resident speaking against the application, and that's Mr rape jokes.
if you'd like to composer good evening.
and you'll three minutes will start when needed.
Microphone Forty - 0:06:38
residents and returned Council like have repeatedly objected to this development.
however, we are where we are, and we have to accept that, however flawed the principle of developing this plotline, maybe it will go ahead in some form or another, against that backdrop, there are specific issues which we would expect to be dealt with before the submission is improved is approved these being but a significant number of houses being replacement much-needed bungalows benefit being reduction at peak time traffic movements and releasing other family housing in the area.
that the layout magnitude of the flood attenuation and water management is independently reviewed without the 50 years historically experienced residents and the properties of Queens, Road and Victoria Road West, now better than most the impact a relatively modest wet winter has or had on flood history and flood risk to their properties. To that end, the did she's been filming across. The site should be replacement dikes along the entire boundary with the properties in Queens Road
this proposal has a significant proportion of that being a very narrow French, drawing.
only which will hope we are wholly inadequate, leading to an inevitable flooding of Queens Road properties and runoff into Victoria Road West.
a meeting with residents representatives, the proposer and Kent fire and water management should be a prerequisite to determining this application, and I would make one correction as Chair of the limestone residents, association or ammo consultee and nobody has actually consulted with me since the last application.
given that no impact assessment or formal risk assessment has been undertaken by Kent Highways and the woeful condition of the adjacent roads with collapsing surface drawings, regular flights and, most recently yesterday, is essential that these issues be resolved and supported with a suitable traffic management plan and implemented before construction commences.
in addition, residents very essential that the previous assurances given in earlier proposals.
that the entire perimeter boundary will be with all adjacent properties has a minimum of 6 4 close boarded fence erected prior to commencing a construction this proposal appears to have removed all it appears to have been removed on this proposal, which is totally unacceptable.
furthermore, that the proposal to raise the Ditum of the development site a full metre above that of adjacent properties, has to be reviewed and justified, as this alone will continue to to be a real and likely future flooding go because real and likely future flooding of adjacent properties and roads.
thank you very much.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:09:37
so, councillors over to you.
Councillor Paul Thomas,
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:09:46
thank you Chairman and I would a couple of things I'd like to say personal, I think the officers report is is very comprehensive.
just in terms of the layout of this section 4 point for that actually picks up.
the appeal details, and makes it very clear what the planning inspector has said about this supports re proposal to approved this application specifically as well, within that details, within that particular section, and on page 22, the Planning Inspectorate had already picked up the issues associated with flood risk in new infrastructure capacity.
and said that these will primarily matters for outline planning and development of the local plan.
there is also a section in their the relates to to flooding and condition 20 associated with the ICB, one of the things that.
the local residents Association highlighted there are, in fact there were a number of things which they talked about, one of these was own development that's actually covered in the report under Section 17 17 to 7 22 and highway safety, which is 7 21 7 23, so I think those things there have been adequately addressed in the report exactly as.
requesting when this has previously been referred to this Committee.
it's good to see as well that within this application is something that's been contained from will retain their should say from the previous applications, is the fact that, within Section 7.1 1 of the report, it does specify that there are actually six resident parking spaces available for the residents of Victoria request, so all those things are really very positive with regard to moving this forward.
how, however, I do share some of the concerns raised by, by the way, that you've bird here tonight, and I think one of the things that has been overlooked slightly, and certainly the Planning Inspectorate I believe didn't addressed in Sydney in their return.
is what's changed since the local plan was issued in 2020 and also what's changed since the outline planning application was was presented and approved by this Committee, and specifically I want to focus on wastewater removal from the site, so you've probably all aware that Littlestone is currently Littlestone beach is currently unknown, swim zone there are only two in a holding account St Mary's Bay and that will stand and that's because of sewage discharges to the sea.
one of the things that's happened since the a 2020 local plan is there's been a number of unauthorised discharges to see specifically from the Queen's Road pumping station, and this proposal is looking at making the connection the main sewer connection. This is what's in the wastewater connections. Outline diagram which is included in the report is that we are going to be making a connection from this site onto an adjacent in Queens Road. Pumping station Queens Road pumping station has been responsible for 16 of the 61 uncontrolled releases of storage onto the beach at Littlestone, and that's in the Beach Boy data from Southern Water, which is unsuitable. What I would say is, has the developer, gone far enough to look at what could be done to mitigate that with regard to the connection of this site to the existing infrastructure, and so that's a question that I would like to be asked, and I think we owe it to ourselves for that to be brought to this committee to to our satisfaction,
the we sustainable drainage scheme, which is identified within the system drawings that were identified within this planning application, have, or have a layout in terms of where the surface water is going to go, there are two attenuation ponds which you can see upon, there are upon the diagrams there and you'll see, as is already identified in the Planning report itself, that there have to be a number of changes.
on the field where there's a ditches being filled and thanks Convener replacement with a covert and overt world, so all those things are going to change that, the dynamic that the water flow on that site in some way and and nowhere at the moment have we seen that sign of satisfactory by the Romney Marsh Area Drainage Board and although we have agreed in principle,
they haven't signed the original thing of which is which is a downstream accidents, happen and and finally, one of the things that we have to recognise and it has been alluded to here and if you look at the photographs, you'll see this is this is a a cul-de-sac during the construction firms. There's gonna be a lot of vehicles travelling up and down this way it's going to be hugely disruptive to the local residents. So what I would like to see, as part of a construction management plan is, rather than the generic term, which tends to be used in the construction management plan condition which says all vehicles have the accommodated on site. I would like that to actually read that there should be no construction delivery or trade vehicles on the Children's Road. West Victoria Road Queen's round or Park Road are specifically because that's a designated bus route for the one or two, and the last thing we want is the construction, traffic and trade vehicles are interfering with the normal life for people in Uganda. It's really quite straightforward to be able to do that and I'm quite achievable in my opinion, so I would like to see those things specifically addressed as part of this planning application. Thank you, Chair,
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:15:51
thank you over to walk or cycle, there may be some points.
thank you share with the Councillors, and I shall do our best to Councillor Thomas of Trident, if I've got it right, we're talking about surface and that surface water foul drainage recites surface water drainage from the site and construction management.
I think the first one to remind ourselves what we're considering, it's not, we're not considering the principle of development, we are considering the reserved matters for layout and appearance and landscaping.
said before you those other matters that will considering the council has already considered the principle of the development and imposed in approving that so attached, conditions regarding foul drainage and surface water, drainage and construction management, that is an opportunity for attaching conditions to the planning conditions. In front of you we had a planning application which nonetheless has been consulted on by Southern Water, and we are directed by central government to make sure that we attached to a main utility provider for foul drainage unless there because that is the safest environment but to set aside
there releases of other things, because that's not for the planning committee.
we have to connect to the appropriate utility, providing just Southern Water, who have not raised any concerns around connection capacity and have said that they are Camp. What they would need to approve the exact detail of the connection and that will be done under different legislation outside of this matters. So we're planning perspective, we have got enough knowledge to say what a connection can be provided and how that is dealt with it between the applicants and the Southern Water Drainage body, and how that water is then outflows went about. Water stays in the surface and foul drainage system will get outfall into storm is not a matter for planning policy, and are we raising another Whorlton is a matter for Southern Water and whether they are complying with their secondary legislation. So for tonight I was advised that actually how it's connected is a matter for other legislation and other technical colleagues. We have to make sure there is a condition that they can't build it until there is a foul connection, then there is not likely requirements vanquishing, which we call the Building control Southern Water need to make sure that they're providing big can services, because if they can't service its, then there cannot be a connection, and that if you need to have to come back to us and ask for an on-site scenario and we'd have to give that for some of the environmental implications for that or the Development 1% because there has to be achieved,
turning to surface water, drainage.
obviously, we have a scheme for surface water drainage, no more conditions attached to that those are technical things which were through all Kent as the Lead Local Flood Authority raised no objection to how surface water drainage is being dealt with and, as you quite rightly say, the land drainage board.
have said in principle we're happy with the proposals, but there's more detail and that will come through the discharge of condition processes that will happen in due course.
and, as set out in the committee report under the Chief Planning Officer comment of they'll be further course relevant consultation through those technical bodies and the Appleton ourselves discharging conditions, so I think, from a planning perspective at reserved matters, an automatic so that we have the principle of an acceptable surface water drainage, good surface water drainage will attenuate the water gonna wrongly sites to ensure that it doesn't drained from the site faster and currently does.
and that will be the objective of that technical detail, which will score well today, as it frankly endorses the construction management plan, and obviously we did discuss at outline stage to concerns raised by local residents about parking through traffic with the additional traffic signal then matters which were assessed at both at a high level for the local plan but said he would need some details of that and through the outline planning opposition, it was discussed at 1.00. Hence we have a construction management condition. This would not be appropriate to impose a new condition or reimpose a further condition on top of the current outline permission
parking in scenarios for construction management should take place within the site and that would be part of the construction management plan to address how the construction is taking place.
we couldn't specify more than that because there might be many other ways of actually securing no harm to residents.
they are, of course, local strengths, which many people can talk on improvement becomes an enforceable difficulty Wayne whose parking Yesha department there are additional partner.
hyper covered by three points in.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:20:30
yeah yeah, thank during this very comprehensive I would, I would say I accept everything we say that it still there's still this issue and that when the local plan was considered an iron ceiling is considered, there were I think there were nine specific elements within which said these are things that we would address through panel.
I think, had the knowledge we have today been available in terms of the impact that the sewerage system and its failure to manage the existing loan who happens, and consequently the issue will be having Littlestone and St Mary's Bay, where we've got sued discharging to the beach we've had the Leader stood there telling us about how poor Southern Water's management of the system is and how he's having regular almost weekly meetings with Southern Water about poor performance or wisdom going to go ahead or connect 88 pounds 80 houses directly into Quintero pumping station which is responsible for 16 sewage discharge events and I know what you're saying that Southern Water will saying,
well, we believe that capacity and the capability of systems fire, but the one other piece of information which which is available to us and that there wasn't available when the outline planning permission was considered or when the local plan was considered, the fact that Southern Water of action quotes Queens Road from construction on their capital investment programme.
which is the 25 year programme that is not programme, could be done within the first 10 years, so we're going to carry on having issues, potentially because it discharges the beach until Southern Water giving rise. All I'm saying is is, is there something else that couldn't get an interim which would help to mitigate the issue, associate ubiquitous charges to say by accept what you said in terms of your response to me and how this had been dealt with, my point is, the situation has changed since the original assessment was done with a local band stage. Anthony
and for that long Panel stamps as well, thank you.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:22:44
then complete chronic sense, I don't believe the situation has changed because what we're doing is making a decision.
low point may just I understand, is to make a decision based on how a company, how he person, an individual or organisation, has failed to approach when they should've operate with a certain framework, and there is the legislative framework for dealing with.
if, with the benefit of new application, you were allocated this site tomorrow.
and there were concerns about local services and there would be a requirement and the policy properly to ensure that the local service provider confirmed there is capacity in the network and we would do what we've done today, which has go, ask them, is the capacity of the network and they would say, yes, we got capacity with work because what Southern Water, one of our water worried for putting forward I can't control them, but when they're putting forward the business cases for the improvements, they have to look at the growth through local plans of settlements, including hours. So I do understand your points where I think, from a planning perspective, with straying outside of the planning constraints into other things, where there was secondary legislation for controlling those individuals, if they can't provide capacity and service Redmond, then they won't get a link if they can and Southern Water or others. I'd be careful about what our businesses, if the operator of sewage falls foul of other, breaks the law in a different way.
we can't do that, so where we're proving a Road tomorrow and certainly shouldn't approve any roads in case someone speeds, we can't control how they speak with the current stops, informative grippingly, we can say that the roads designed for people to obey the rules. So I do understand your point, but I have to aid towards when we're making a decision tonight. There are controlled and placement sure there's a connection to the foul provider. There are controls in place to make sure that surface water and local risk level is controlled and that the on-site surface water drainage of the site flows of slower than it would naturally think there's a field, and we have to drainage boards, which is saying in principle, that's fine
I have to urge you to say, we don't have any evidence to say that a suitable capacity connection could not made, because we don't know if Southern Water suddenly faced to release his comments in full Council.
no hat no longer have any more storm out false or breaches of what they should form, because we can't control, sorry, I have to urge you to accept it, but we have to work within the basis of the framework that we need to make a decision, and I know it's an emotive subject locally and I do understand it, but I have to suggest that it's not a matter for the discretion to
I just want just one other thing funding, thank you very much for free
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:25:31
and I think that's that's great wow you often saw in in order banning applications, things to consider, I'm talking about harm what harm and the skills and it's demonstrable that if you're adding capacity to the system which is already calmly local individuals and the environment then those behalf for you is also, I'll say no more quick lunch.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:25:58
I think there's two points were urged by central government to accept that the local providers can provide that's point, one, whether they do, is as a a breach of something else, which other bodies have control over definitely one-way system level, the second thing for yourself proceedings there is planning approval in place or the outline and reserved matters stage for 80 dwellings if we are a few Members but to refuse this based on that point to align tonight I'd be concerned about our chances defending your appeal.
and I'd be concerned that there would push ahead with the other approval.
80 houses already have planning permission on that site, and the speaker tonight has confirmed that they own.
writes to that reference, to share what we have in front of us in a slightly different scheme in some ways is slightly better, you have approval, influences that often barriers the fallback position was taken to court.
Councillor Cooper.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:26:52
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:26:55
thank you, Ms Lo, and I understand exactly where you're coming from the 0 1 point from our own local lunch in we know, for example, that the the water distribution systems or infrastructure in question is not adequate, surely we cannot just sit here and say you cannot do not in general it was just going to cause demonstrable harm, presumably similar neighbouring properties, as the Residents' Association said, I mean what we supposed to do with options none are surely not.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:27:22
thank you. Councillor rates, when we're not ignoring it's never been ignored. It's been taken into consideration in parcel planning, questions in consultant, Templeborough experts, service standards, once we've looked at the levels proposed, would look for flooding, they then everybody knows that the flood situation because we've had a flood risk assessment and we know where the flood maps are. We know what the what the Papers are. There are local conditions, but in developing cycling. Choosing surface water attenuation
this site at its boundaries will not.
push water further work, designed to move it to an attenuation basin, designed to allow it to flow away from the houses at the North, so it built in that manner and it built in accordance with the details which have been prepared by drainage exports and on the agenda. So I have to rely on the evidence in the application and then on the technical consultation, completely independent of a planning authority. Do they think there's going to be an issue because if they thought is going to be issue based on
the water levels as 9 and the Flood Risk, and taking into account climate change, they would object, but what the proposals seek to do is to follow water to the south away from the neighbouring boundaries to the north.
designed to flow that way, not only to get it brought to an attenuation basin in high water flow levels, but to slower running of the rest of the site at more than four litres per second or helpful, which is what happens currently equals Greenwald this site would hopefully training at a much lower.
bleats reach, prohibiting, which had been that it can't get worse than it already is because it's going to be improved within its boundaries.
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:29:03
sorry, you will saved up on some road, obviously Malcolm ask a question here, part of our deliberations here obviously is listening to see where representations, obviously my budget, which in Sunbury objectives now returning to this evening.
from an objector.
the potential funding to the loss of neighbouring properties and providing the Dyke, etc although, although not until it reaches that we need to consider it means an absence of them.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:29:30
of course it can consider them, and in doing so you need to weigh that up against the internal drainage board.
the Local Lead Flood Authority, surface water attenuation plan, the Flood Risk Assessment will underpin the planning, application and Council Review that the views expressed by residents is outweighing is the technical body of evidence that suggests it wouldn't cause problems, so I thought I suspect on long,
so I think in coming to a conclusion there is local knowledge and then there is technical knowledge, and if we were to take this to appeal, we will be sitting in front of an Inspector, and the first question he asked me is that, Mr Lloyd, valuable drainage experts, and I would have to say No, I'm not that they've got a drainage expert says it's OK.
and and then we would be in that position, so what I would say yes, it's entirely in your gift to way for local residents event, and you could very good reasons if you can get evidence and tonight come to a view that you believe that actually the weight of the local knowledge outweighs that of the subsequent benefits personally entirely in the gift as the Chief Planning Officer advising you,
on this planning application, I would suggest the weight is leaning.
towards the planning session.
Councillor Walker,
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:30:53
Cllr Belinda Walker - 0:30:55
yeah, I just have a question I do very much agree with what Councillor Thomson, Councillor Adam Duguid said it, and I understand your answer, but is there any way this we could feedback, as this Committee, just such a Southern Water to say that we have concerns?
about the the ability of that particular change things, it can.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:31:18
thank you, Councillor Walker, I think that is already being done through the motion that the second full Council some time ago, which is why the Leader of the Council, I think, is as contact Southern Water, to express this Council's concerns about that.
we, as the planning authority, are passed to that, but the Council has raised those concerns with Southern Water.
Councillor shoe.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:31:43
thank you.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:31:48
I wanted to first of all say I was very pleased to see heat pumps and solar panels that's all good stuff.
well what I did want to for of
I'm not sure it's an observation or whether we can have an influence at this point on this on the the bicycle storage.
which it said they will be garden sheds provided.
I think the the report and be the applicants were flags up no sustainability being at the heart of this, so it would seem a real missed opportunity to have sort of 21st century yeah approach to to and best practice around.
no sustainable,
transport, active travel,
I am particularly because there are she, it says that the vast majority of the the the houses do have those massive for gaps for cars in between them, so yeah garden sheds for bikes is not some really Catholic.
thank you.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:33:05
I understand the point I suppose the policy requires that cycle provision is made at a certain level crossing the site, simple sections seen which is 7.10 to 13 we concluded that cycle parking is provided in a number of different forms for a number of different people, so in that regard David Maxwell requirements for cycle parking if we had alternative requirements for psychopathy wish you impose that we would have needed to impose that at an outline stage but is unlikely to have been grounds in recent years the applicant themselves were Committee, but I think we can rest assured that cycle parking is being covered within this application.
Councillor Mowat, Local.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:33:49
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:33:54
so I think once again we find ourselves discussing whether a scheme should go ahead, actually already has permission and the scale of it, because of both very, very legitimate concerns about surface water and about sewage, and I think it is worth just touch with soup, as has touched on the good things with this development and I think it is worth noting,
air source,
heat pumps, we have another application for us for seeking that there's making provision for air conditioning units which feels a little bit like going opposite way.
and also an awful lot of I mean, that's low-earners mentioned already about the way in which surface water is being dealt with. Some care has been taken by the applicants. I think, to deal with that also with the the native hedges, the landscaping of the scheme, and I think it is worth recognising the developer has taken sums care here to improve on a previous plan to do things which, if everybody did, that, would help to mitigate some of the impact of climate change, which is leading to some of those problems which we were discussing the yes, I just think it's worth noting that thank you
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:34:58
can I ask a question, please, and the gentlemen who is the resident spoke about a 6 foot fence that seems to have disappeared,
I wonder if anyone can shed some light on this all.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:35:14
yeah, I'm not quite sure.
what we're whether 6 fence was previously, but I mean we've got to look at the application before, as the submitted plans show a 1.8 metre-high timber fence along the boundary with the existing development.
I think that would be more thanks for that, thank you very much, with
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:35:45
any other Councillor Cooper, flagging judges, equipment.
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:35:49
would it be ensured possible, should remain knees? Arms of the application was deferred and comes back from his again could be further. Negotiations have been taking place with the developer to take into account the concerns of local residents. What we've said this evening and also of course I wouldn't want us to be satisfied that were being accused before the concentration given that one or more apiece CPC, the documentation to make comments
so could be actually be further to this evening.
go away and then come back to you seemed as any amendments to the scheme or not.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:36:23
thank you, Councillor.
obviously, if members were to have a motion and to vote on it until agreed that they would wish to defer them item that could, of course, this doesn't need to set out the planning reasons for doing so and what it means they were seeking to the challenge.
we will then have an opportunity to go and ask the applicant to look at those and bring them back.
I haven't spoken to elaborate on that point, I would imagine that, given that the application of dealing with the matters or what is happening with them, it's unlikely that the scheme would come back to you significantly different, if at all but of course if there was a motion to defer over the course I wouldn't be standing in the way that because that is the democratic process.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:37:12
we do need more counselling like to speak, Councillor Osborne.
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:37:20
thank you Chair, what I've been listening with interest to the conversations and dwellings comprehensive.
a response form.
and I think
it has, it has planning permission, it has, they could go ahead with a 2 already, this is a slight improvement as well in himself, so, and I think it, the questions being asked were being comprehensively answered.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:37:53
therefore I am happy to mommies proposal, we have a proposal to have a seconder, please,
yeah yeah are happy to share them with sorry Dryden's, obviously all
Cllr Clive Goddard - 0:38:03
looked through Councillor Thomas should be able to for which there is any reasons or anything it's going back or or foreign financial, but unfortunately not but bought, recalling shake.
the house is allocated, it has informed, obviously all remember when it comes to us a few years value for with the first application.
and obviously the wedding which is advisers they have the appear also, so reluctantly your will move, secondly, to the reasons obviously say and.
in our hopefully the screen will more Stephen stay as it is, it needs me.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:38:46
thank you, so we have been proposal and that is to accept the officers recommendation to agree, and I am going to agree and finalise the wording of conditions and and any other conditions that they feel necessary as they come forward all those in favour please raise your hand,
those against.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:39:12
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:39:16
abstentions.
thank you.
Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:39:24
just chase, that's 7 4 2 against any police station for that
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:39:29
application has passed, thank you, we'll move on to our next one this evening.

5 23/1591/FH - Land West of Ashford Road, New Romney

Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:39:33
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:39:45
so we move on to application 23 dash 1 5 9 1 dash at H, and this is the land western Ashford Road in New Romney do we have any updates, please?
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:40:00
we have no updates and I believe we have one speaker.
on this, which is on a Kerrigan who is the agent to speak in support of the application, if you'd like to come forward good evening and you will have three minutes from when you start, thank you.
Microphone Forty - 0:40:21
good evening, chat and members. Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight in sports is already excuse me because I don't know what you just for a second. Sorry gentlemen, if you want to speak, could you don't forward? Thank you very much. I do apologise, thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight. In support of the application which seeks hybrid planning permission for 96 homes on this allocated site, following the May planning committee meeting pen and homes recognise the concerns raised by nearby Town Council and subsequently met them to discuss and explain the proposals further. We understand these discussions addressed a number of the concerns that they raised. As discussed following submission of the application, the number of homes has been reduced from 1919 96 and the design approach has been refined through significant designed feedback from your officers to ensure the proposals remain. In keeping with the character of New Romney, the density of the development remains low, with gross density of just 28 dwellings per hectare, in keeping with the local area, and provides 0.9 1 hectares of open space in excess of policy requirements.
the three storey building proposed accords with the approved parameters from the existing outline consent and, overall the proposals keep the development lower than that was approved previously with more of the development area kept two storeys, statutory consultees raised no concerns with the proposals, especially in regard to flood risk and highways with no object for objections from both KCC highways and KCC Flood and Water.
in addition, with the uplifting unit numbers proposed, the proposals secure section 1 0 6 funding towards healthcare approach provision as well as additional funding towards secondary and S E and education, which the outline did not previously the section 1 0 6 contributions being over 530,000 pounds following positive discussions with your officers which have resulted in a number of refinements to the proposals specifically in respect of design.
the proposals will secure the delivery of high quality development, which makes the most efficient use of this allocated and sustainable site we therefore request that you endorse your officer's recommendation to approve the application, thank you for your time this evening.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:42:22
thank you very much, Councillors over to me, Councillor Thomas.
the picture.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:42:31
some of the stuck record now referred sorry wherever.
again, I think.
similar concerns through to that expressed in the previous application with regard to things have changed since the local plan was put forward
I did sitting on the meeting with Pentwyn phones we asked as a committee go back, we consider what could be done and then come forward to that and maybe they did come forward and they did.
send a letter to new, wrongly sound Council to to address some of the concerns that the consensus around the table was that those concerns have been allayed, so I would like to thank Fenton for 49.
however, we still have the issue that we discussed previously about the capacity of the sewerage system and the drainage system, and just passed just last week from our house in touch with Pentland again because for an immediate neighbour to the site and how these garaging in one house flooded because of runoff from that feeling directed Tunis despite the
impervious fence Wychavon around him, to keep the reptiles on on the land and we have agreed to go and have a look and look at them but not got that withstanding, we are still, I still have genuine concerns about the capability of the sewer system in London and the surface water system which we all ultimately feeds into two absorb yet another non Cheltenham so I do think Pentland for looking at reducing the number of homes which is part of what we ask you to do.
and again I have similar concerns about construction management plans when the building site on the opposite side of the road on the east side, which wasn't in the Local Plan but was a windfall site of 112 million of abuse we had a patient to get the enforcement officer to site on a number of occasions the possible failure of the site management to manage construction traffic along the road that is an arterial route across the Marsh and into and into new rumbling.
it was closed on numerous occasions, four weeks at the time and it was hugely impactful on local residents, so again I know it's quite different situation, but I really would insist that the construction management plan addresses the issue in isn't as generic about not housing.
construction delivery and trade vehicles, on Ashford role, we have residents in the previous when the previous developments going on, who were walking impeccable into the role is there's no pavement.
you have to walk on the curve, the curve was full of random and vehicles and, as I said, we actually have the enforcement officers to sign a couple of times on that, so we're really would like pensions to do what they say. They do not want to be a considerate, constructive and make sure that there isn't any adverse impact on local residents when this development is being built, because last time it was completely unacceptable at a local secondary very much picture.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:45:48
Thanking Councillor Thomas within the officer's right to make a statement
thank you, Councillor Thomas Vale, I think so.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:45:57
similar comments to our earlier discussion is that the work this is an outline is a hybrid planning application as opposed to monitor the reserved matters, which is also available as soon as you can see, condition 5 of planning permission requires details specified where the, apart from the site, offices and visitors are where the loading and unloading of plant and two years will take place where storage of plant and materials used in the construction of development and for both the erection hoarding wheel washing facilities to apprehend mud on the road,
measures to control the emission of dust and a scheme for recycling, replace waste that's aside to the Council consider it contracts.
one needs to be aware that obviously there are other bodies involved when somebody starts to close in on footways or directing people explorations and therefore can highlight services as part of their remarks as the local highway authority and so for somebody to not have in place the appropriate measures is probably an issue for them and the licence will have to stop up footpaths.
and there are two different enforcement authority was weakened, informative condition and tends to enforce the dangerous use of the roads or claiming to have the appropriate provisions in place, normally, actually, what will happen is that Kent County Council, the first Austrian force, our condition.
I suppose my question would be as to what more specificity you want without knowing that there are other formally various different ways of skinning account, and we also need to bear in mind.
there will always be things well beyond the controllable, which will be a peak issue sometimes which can be rectified very quickly he asked for buried example, as discussed.
I was personally contacted developments, I think your wheel washing guys out there, you've got mountain.
people are doing invariably, you're always get people parking on public highways as they are allowed to meet our folder.
what we can do is put our best foot forward and so where you go into in this site,
what's your compounds, and how does that compound work, and it couldn't at the compound sits on the open space and this particular site in the open spaces, the last form to come on the site or it might be on the parking area and it comes off for the time they've done the heavy works owing to transform our view is that constructing within five,
is a fair balance for that, and it is always discharged in consultation with current highway, is to make sure that they are happy with the details that are specified, I'm not sure we can do much that control Health around this newsletter various.
Kent County Council's, but if they didn't want things happening on asteroid, which are lawful.
they will put their own controls in place
and if there was any specific additions condition for us to consider outwith this planning control, I'll say at the moment that is the standard across the county condition, and sometimes you will get developers who stray from what they want to do to address five managers had more deliveries than you were expecting and suddenly he's got lorries or they have more whether sorry suggested from our perspective the letters other specific changes would need to know about those but we can take those aware of sort of is fundamental to how the proposed and consider them under the delegated provision.
thank you very much for that, I think, again of my concern, really it
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:49:13
was about not following what was inadequately explained, has been much, what is exactly what was on the construction management plan for phosphorous, well, we have a conversation with with complement and seeing the featuring the Development Manager says dollars dollars, for example, so I think he gets it I think it goes anywhere and if he doesn't then we'll remind you but it was a case of was there anything else you need to put in there.
because Kent Highways previously identified the route for heavy goods vehicles to an unknown country, it doesn't likeness to become one of the 2017 and untrue iv church and to access the site to walk into the timing and you're not sending off the High Street Lincoln blow, we saw that last one we did Kent police actually went out and and monitoring the speed of vehicles on the wanted capital drawings as well, so we can do all that I just Michael response from England.
to us to say yes, we understand that we didn't get it right on the east side of the road, or we will definitely get into our Alresford Road, so maybe the agent can take that away tonight who gives a positive response so that you can segment residents. They've got the message, that's all. Thank you, and thank you for your comprehensive
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:50:27
reponse. Won't do anything you want to welcome that. I think there is obviously a real
can't legislate for people should be going, I hope they know developers had generally what tends to solve these problems is if local residents bring to our attention we will pick it up with the incidents directly to respond quickly and hopefully away.
Councillor Cooper.
finally, but what you've been saying, Mr Lloyd?
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:50:49
if you look on the planning portal, zero-based remarks in respect of this, and one is about a footpath, would that be included, including a remark from the about people using the highway, et cetera and it was issued, road-safety could've people in, but on the whole there is a number of remarks by various people commenting on this application, Monet Belge marks is about a footpath, the signs of the Development et cetera, meaning of footpath for public safety cannot be put in.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:51:38
if that, if we're talking about providing a public footpath around the outside of the site.
that would obviously be not in their proposals currently.
so he couldn't acquire, I think the thing to keep bear in mind is we're where would it be leading to because it wouldn't connect with another public footpath outside of the site, so at the moment what happened there's a new public footpath being proposed on the western side of Ash Road until a box to remain access points into the site.
that continues for a beats crossing road footpaths then become inbound behind us to grade trees,
and that links in with the cycling as a crossing back onto the underside of Ashley when you go round the bend around the attenuation ponds to the north, which is not on the screen, there is no continuation of the footpath further northwest and we have a footpath go into novels and probably outside some of the extremities of the settlement boundary, so I think that this man is fine.
what was provided with a footpath which links in with the development and linked to the development into the natural footpath Local?
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:52:46
Councillor Tom yeah, sorry to and just I read the comments and what
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:52:53
people were asking for was a footpath to go from the east developments all the way to the top of the blank.
without recognising that we have to go through the adjacent.
what was still a building site to access copy they must, what they were asking for, I know when we considered the Eastside development, new long-term council will be asked for the crossing to the sorry, the speed limit sign to be changed from 60 miles an hour which is where the crossing roads and put a 30 miles an arrogant sorry St David's on actual growth which has been done so that is now 31 and all road and in fact in our parish our improvement plan.
which has been formed to see all the stages that will will become 20 miles an hour from copy Lane frontage shouldn't so, I think, in terms of highway safety, those things we have been addressed, so just to get a lot more attention.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:53:48
thank you, would anyone else want to ask one question smoking his comments, Councillor Walker?
Cllr Belinda Walker - 0:53:52
my question relates to the right Councillor Cooper, said about the footpath and would have felt there would surely be a way of getting from the new estate and damaged New Romney town centre on foot without having to go into around.
I don't know if there is.
Cllr Belinda Walker - 0:54:09
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:54:10
Will this local footpaths already the developer should be required to provide a foot off around the outside and we didn't know sort of sale.
one would imagine that, beyond that, it will be on the locus of this planning application to staff improving.
the footpaths for everybody else that could be a Kent County Council position.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:54:37
I'm not seem unwilling submission to speak, do I have a proposal, please?
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:54:49
very well, then I will propose will propose that we accept the officer's recommendations, can I have a seconder brings Nelson on Wednesday, thank you very much, so we have one.
proposal in front of us, and that is to accept the officer's recommendation,
I believe we've had a good discussion on this as well as the previous one, and I'm hoping obviously the developer will take on board what has been said and that all those in favour of the application please read your hand.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:55:25
those against.
extinctions.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:55:31
Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:55:36
at 7.00 4 2 against and 1 abstention Chair, thanking that application
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:55:40
has passed.

6 23/0851/FH/CON - Princes Parade Promenade, Princes Parade, Hythe

Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:55:51
so we move on to our last application of the evening, which is 23 dash 08.1 dash if h dash see, all in which is the Prince's Parade promenade, we have no speakers on this, but I was wondering, if Mr Whelan may like to clarify why this has come forward because we know that Princess Parade could be quite emotive and I want to make sure that we're all on the the same.
direction on this on thank you,
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:56:23
thank you Chair, feeding councils are fully aware of how.
transfer need is pointed out noted this one is for many people across the district, but tonight's discussion needs to confine themselves to the planning the application forms was who have an application for discharge of conditions.
this isn't the forum to discuss any other parts of this particular developments.
and whether the existing planning permission can or cannot be implemented is not relevant to the discharge of this condition.
approving this application eventually offers referral of members agreed to it would not resurrects the planning permission Nordic sequel more aligned.
tonight's were discussing whether the details in front of us are acceptable or in this case.
are you happy for officers to all of that delegation once we have the technical response from our?
contamination experts.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:57:21
hopefully that will make it slightly clearer.
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:57:28
Councillor Hornsby then thank you Chair move the recommendation, the another second degrees,
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:57:30
happy to second.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:57:34
Councillor Thomas seconding, would anyone else want to speak on this Councillor Johnson, Councillor Mowat, Blake, walkways
I just wanted to clarify that this is just to contamination so that
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:57:44
whatever goes beyond it's not necessarily for planning permission is just to discharge the contamination and my correct.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:57:57
the application before you this evening, which is speaking deferral to officers, would be to approve condition 25 saying.
of this particular condition,
and I know that can be a bit, that can be a bit confusing, so I did have a meeting we can do anything about this because I was a little confused as 101 systems price, no, no, no, no, no, that's not what,
was agreed, so my understanding is this is about the contamination, should we, when we go to consultation, is I believe we are able, prescribing things step in, if I'm saying something wrong Mullen,
should we want to go along, for example, with the wildlife park as an example reflects what the consultation comes back with we will still need to have this clause put to bed, especially with contamination
that summit up,
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:58:55
it would be correct to believe that, if anything would tackle on this site, contamination will be dealt with one way or the other.
so correct.
Councillor Mike, direct rule,
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:59:07
yeah, so it is gonna say the same thing, but my understanding is that.
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:59:12
if we were not to pass this as meaning, it's not to say that those things couldn't apple a princess bride, it's just, it would make life harder for us and having this agreeing with us tonight means that where we to replace the playground or do anything on the site, it makes us easier for due to do that, but I would not be minded to vote provinces if I thought it was going to resurrect anything else happening on Princess per item, and I think I would want to reassure people that that is not in the minds of or anybody for that to happen. But if all we're talking about tonight is to make it easier for us to deal with the contamination for whatever happens to Princess Road site, then I don't have a problem with agreeing EPS evening
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:59:55
and that's totally understand Councillor Bolton, so we, however, one proposer and one seconder, and that's to accept the officers recommendation to deal with the condition stated all those new private crews regime.
and I can see her that she members, thank you very much.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:00:15
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:00:16
I believe that's only have on the agenda this evening, so I'd like to thank you very much for coming safe journeys home, it's a bit wild and woolly out there, so please try reminds safe on your way, home and good night until next.