Overview and Scrutiny Committee - Tuesday 24 September 2024, 6:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Overview and Scrutiny Committee
Tuesday, 24th September 2024 at 6:00pm 

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  1. Cllr Laura Davison
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  3. Mr Alex Baker
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  5. Cllr Connor McConville
  6. Councillor Tony Hills
  7. Cllr Laura Davison
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  1. Cllr Laura Davison
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  15. Cllr Laura Davison
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  28. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
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  8. Webcast Finished
Slide selection

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:00
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:03
view and Scrutiny Committee, this meeting will be webcast live to the internet, for those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed, you'll need to leave the Chamber for members officers and others speaking at the meeting, it's important that the microphones are used so viewers on the webcast and others in the room may here you would anyone with a mobile phone please switch to silent mode as they can be distracting.
like to remind Members that, although we all have strong opinions on matters under consideration, it's important to treat members, officers and public speakers with respect.
Good evening, everybody, and we're going to begin the agenda with
Mr Alex Baker - 0:00:41
apologies for absence, thank you Chair, we have no apologies, thank you.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:42
are there any declarations of interest?
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:00:53
Councillor McConville declare an interest as a director of article Parker locally, and we withdraw for the last item, thank you.
Councillor Hills, thank you Chair.
Councillor Tony Hills - 0:01:02
I should mention the Kent county councillor.
ha what new occupation and also I'm chairman of the Kent, Flood and Water Management Committee.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:01:12
thank you, Councillor brochure.
Director of opportunity, and I'm sure it's relevant to the agenda, but
Cllr James Butcher - 0:01:18
sorry might just in case.
thank you, Councillor, yes, also grateful for catchiness.
Cllr John Wing - 0:01:26
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:01:30
OK, thank you, there is a noted I'm moving on to the minutes of our last meeting.
we need to consider and approve as a correct record the record the minutes of our meeting on the 23 of July 2024, are there any comments on the minutes?
no okay can have a proposer.
Councillor Elaine Martin and secondary Councillor health, all in agreement, came what's agreed, thank you, colleagues.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:02:00
so moving to our first main item on the agenda are regular Cabinet Member update, and this evening, rejoined by Councillor Paul Blake, more the Cabinet Member for Transport, regulatory services and building control, I've already ruthlessly ask Councillor Blackmore if she can.
keep her presentation to five minutes, because we have got a lot to get through this evening and then there will be an opportunity for colleagues to ask questions, so Councillor Blake, volunteered.

1 Apologies for Absence

2 Declarations of Interest

3 Minutes

4 Cabinet Member updates

thank you Chair, and thank you, Members who invited me back to give
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:02:34
you my portfolio update together can't quite believe it's a year since we last did this and I will try, and can you put as a as a sink as possible I'm going to start with the transport side of my portfolio because it is a cause parking that takes up most of my inbox but to start up with the I mentioned last year when I was here about the electric vehicle charge point project.
that has moved on, but not as quickly as I would have liked to, because we're working with Kent County Council to target the 10 priority sites across the district, so a kind of bits stuck in airtime trains rather than the ones that we were hoping to go with but it is moving there'll be a two week online consultation installation at those 10 priority sites and I can share.
but you outside of this meeting, if anyone's interested, but they are across the district.
installation, as I said, to start late October, early November or the first site operational by March, and we will then be the first council in Kent with Council provided on-street charging, so that will be a real real key for us.
other things parking there have been a couple of CPS said, consultations this year, firstly, the one in Cheriton, which gave the response rate of over 58% that we normally get 20%, so that was quite a response rate, with 80% not wanting the scheme, so it needless to say that that isn't going ahead in any shape or form.
we've recently Ignaz consulted Grimston Avenue Godwin Road and surrounding streets on also on a scheme because we have several requests from residents around their again a good response rate 25%, or the normal, and at first look it looks like we have 69% in favour so officers are working on designing a scheme at the moment for some not every street was in favour so needs some designing in some detailed work.
but that is
looking like it will progress and just lastly under parking just to say that enforcement is now at full force with a team of 12 I'm additional hours in the contracts and I think there's been a vast improvement this year, certainly from the last summer I don't see nearly so many complaints, I don't think I've seen any actually ended the summer, which is I'm quite term quite surprising. They've been in the inevitable problems along round the harbour and the coastal area, but sadly it has been an awful lot better.
moving on quickly to buses, I've got to give them put a wording for the Cross Keys summer service, which was a great example of organisations coming together for the good of the district we had prosecute from initiative and know how we had funding from KCC, we had our own facilitation and south-eastern trained support and promotion there. Announcements on trains and at stations which I managed to organise myself didn't do them myself, but they organise it by so dear already was the icing on the cake and it was great to see when I used it that it was received barely positively by both locals and because it is so fingers crossed.
let's see what we can build on that for next year.
I've set up the for the first district focus group meeting for local bus users, the first one is next week, but this is something that should have happened two or three years ago, but was never picked up and is arguably some of the reason behind and are deteriorating bus services.
so this will bring together.
f HDC and KCC officers really keen to have the case ceasing officers there stage coach representation district and county members and and com and members of the bus using public, most importantly, and were the first district focus group to have that direct public representation certainly in East Kent I don't know if it in bed and that applies to all of Kent but set of certainly in East Kent.
lastly, on transport.
after repeated requests, commencing is finally gonna be made available from the Casualty reduction Unit to survey and redesign the Cheriton Road Cherry Garden Avenue intersection, which we all know is as something that's been on water, people's minds for a long time then have a timescale on that yet but it is it is finally on the agenda.
the fifth iteration or KCC's Local Transport Plan is currently out for consultation were in the process of applying as a council, but do make sure you have your say as all Councillors, I think we've got until 8th of October on that one.
skip through some of this, but just from the regulatory side.
the regular. The Environmental, Health and Licensing Team have been particularly busy this year because they've had to take on the funeral homes. Reassurance visits that's following the scandal in how earlier in the year, 13 or 14 visits have now taken place, and the last one is thinks scheduled for next week, so just about done on their and of course we've got an ever-growing number of food and drink outlets in in Folkestone, which comes under their responsibility for environmental health visits as well news on the Environmental Protection enforcement team. They've been running on an both you staff over the summer but have just now recruited two new members who are doing really well already getting
getting out and about doing them on the job training, but being really correct to be getting the job done and on that front as well, there have been some fantastic examples of team working across Community Safety and Enforcement.
I think I'll leave it there but parking strategy which I know Chair wanted to hear about this, the Pakistani she was commissioned under the former administration and to be quite frank when I saw it spells it, I felt it didn't go far enough in terms of solutions arguably because there are no easy ones but it didn't seem to do the job report had been commissioned to do.
it hasn't gone to waste that were because of review work that was done, and it's now been used to inform the pope's the brighter future projects, but as a strategy itself, in terms of being published, that one will not be doing probably.
and I'm happy to take any questions.
thank you very much, Councillor Bateman for that whistlestop tore
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:09:04
through a whole range of different issues, appreciate that I'll open out to members of the Committee for questions or comments.
Councillor brochure.
well, I think he's going to hear all those wrinkles the development
Cllr James Butcher - 0:09:18
and I was really interested in the focus groups robust muses.
he gets to be involved is very interested in making in detention resilience systems, compliance 808
Co currently, where we're working with a couple of representatives
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:09:36
from the Sheffield Bus users Group, they were the group that sort of brought into the fold, as it were, and who had been working with so but that's not set in stone that some that's how we're moving forward as for the meeting next week and then I think I think it will kind of evolve and who knows how that will evolve into the committee system next year as well, I will obviously be changes are
but yeah, it is open to two members of the public
Councillor Martin,
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:10:09
thank you, Chair, said, Look, lots of activity, it's excellent thanks for your for the update, picking up on a topic that.
came out of the Joint transportation board meeting week, so go as keen to get your thoughts on how we can as a council try and drive greater adoption of highways improvement plans, as I understand it, add district is one of the worst performing in terms of the number of parishes and town councils who actually have always improvement plans and I find that really frustrating because that's denying our residents really good access to support and some funding from from KCC.
through those we've seen some very successful highways improvement plans.
in the district, and I'd like us to see a few more.
I completely agree with you, it's it's an interesting process that
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:10:58
highways improvement plan because actually cuts out of the district is between the County Council and Parish and Town Councils, I add some cabinet member for transport haven't actually seen Folkestone Town Councils Highways Improvement Plan so until so not just the thing you do one year feel that it should be been pushed, but I don't think it's within the district councils gift to do that because they are outside of the outside of the system.
so it might be an unsatisfactory answer, but I feel the same way.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:11:39
I think we've got to pull up action of, we need in next Jason Greece, and maybe that's something that we can seek some support from KCC all.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:11:53
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:11:53
any other comments or questions, Councillor Morgan.
thanks.
I was just interested to know if we have any greater on the Cross Keys services numbers, etc.
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:12:02
and if not once, not once they hopefully do appear, we could share them really good, not to know thanks yeah.
headline. It's about, one figure, is at rented, go over 10,000, by the
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:12:17
end of the summer months, I haven't got any more details or granular information on it than that, but yeah, I'm I'm anxious to see see that as well, it was obviously very, whether dependent sunny days was fantastic, a rainy Tuesday, not so good pressure, definitely the word spread in the numbers of enterprising, as the summer went on
thank you yes, and I think we should just thank them active members of
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:12:42
the community who spread the word about the service as well and someone to put posters up my name so that was helpful in letting people know, but it was happening.
if that's all comments or questions from Members, thank you very much, Councillor Batemoor for the detail on your report and look forward to your next return visit to the Committee in due course, so we're gonna move on to our item 5.
tonight flooding poor water quality and the internal drainage board, and just want to welcome all our guests, who've come this evening, to join us and contribute to this item, I know this is something that.
there's a lot of public and resident interest in as tackling so appreciate in police time this evening in doing that, and we're going to start with an introduction from Andrew rash affecting high District Council, thank Sandra.
Andrew Rush - 0:13:42
I very much share progress as well, I just quickly outline the could you outline the approach being taken to the Scrutiny topic this evening.
on screen is the original scope of the scrutiny topic you wanted to look at,
flooding, particularly the focus on inland flooding, which was remarkable by people and groundwater, we wanted to look at the role of the internal drainage board.
we want to discuss bathing water quality and then finally, you wanted to talk about Community involvement both in Bayswater but also in terms of flooding as well.
so the approach we have taken is to split it, undertook to topic areas versus on mainland flooding, and we're gonna have pointed out some brief presentation by the Environment Agency, Southern Water Romney, Marsh in an Drainage Board.
Kent County Council as Lead Local Flood Authority, and then what will follow is it the Member's cured, I think we can convert your questions until then and obviously just quote this in that session, on inland flooding.
so we have can age session, then that point we will complete and then we'll move on to bathing water quality, where we will have another presentation from Environment Agency, flood waters and finding from ourselves their name number Members Q and A so again this time focused on bathing water quality, starting to see the structure of what we're trying to achieve. This evening, members may have seen an earlier version of the slide pack. We've had not quite been sort of LinkedIn treatment that, so we will sort will circulate at following meeting no problem with that. Don't worry about undertake sort of note and so with no further ado, I will pass over to our first frequency with which is, Ian none from the Environment Agency on
in that levels, thank you, thank you very much, the Environment Agency, what is our role in inland flooding, we are a national
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:15:45
organisation with multiple activities that we do across the country, so I've got five minutes on being really really generalistic and and and type with this what I'm saying it obviously when we get to the questions you can you can explore more so.
in terms of the Environment Agency I work within the flood and coastal risk management function in the area operations
I was split into two sort of areas. There's the strategic which is the Environment Agency's national view, so we look at national flood risk
we look at long-term plans in terms of investment plans in our assets but also locally the catchment, Flood Management plans, shoreline Management plans and, of course, such things as the strategies which then feed into our into our work programmes there is an awful lot of work goes into working with our partners could to seeing KCC here and internal drainage board we also worked with yourselves as a local authority in managing some of the coastal assets we feel we've got a really good relationship with officers and suchlike.
I think the inland flooding if we can go to the next slide, I think.
so operationally, so this is what we do an area we have a.
assets that we operate, maintain for both main river and sea defences, we respond to incidents, especially flooding incidents, we've got a Deborah Roy that is part of a national network of death, homes, where we can additional resources such as sandbags, demountable barriers, temporary defences, prompts et cetera and our local teams will deploy those we spend a lot of time and a lot of work goes into how we respond to incidents, so when there's a flooding incident to my river will respond and alleviate issue there

5 Flooding, poor water quality and Internal Drainage Board

nationally, we provide a flood warning service which is run from an area team or Sally pinched, my boss, following sorry, she's come to help out this evening in terms of coastal waters and we construct new assets, and I think the thing about the new assets is that can range from the huge investment that we've had in the last 20 years or so around the coastline here from Folkestone to Chris can offend, you know, it's estimated at something like heart of three and a quarter of a billion pounds worth of investment in the coastal defences and effectively that seals up this part of the the coastline from flooding for the next 50 years, and that's a really important investment. But obviously what you want to know about is what we're doing about land flooding
so if we can go to the next slide, I think so I hope you can see this, it it, never, it was always going to be a very difficult slide this one, because we're talking about a large patch, were also talking about a number of assets that don't respect.
political boundaries. We actually work on catchment boundaries, so the red lines on that map is the main river that we maintain, where our assets are operated. What I would say is we're going to hear from the ITB, and we'll see how the IT big watercourses link up with the main river water courses, which were responsible for I start over there at Karen, if I stared at Union now union is well outside your District. I think that it actually pumps an awful lot of water from within your district, which would mainly be coming. Providing billion ordinary watercourses
greystones, obviously, a pumping station that discharges water to say Jason with a and Apple door.
our places where waters coming into the main river network and getting discharged into watercourses that then discharge the said we've got about 157 km of main river within roughly within your boundary, what's going it's difficult to split out for about 40 kilometres of coastline, 903 various f c or in assets,
these range from tiny little or level control structures, two large pumping stations and see out force, we've also got nine tidal outfalls which, in terms of the inland flooding, are the really important assets because that's where the water is discharged from the land to the same.
we've also got our flood storage reservoir that protects a number of properties Downing high that Millais.
the pens stream, which runs through Folkestone which is most encountered there has been an awful lot of investment over the last few years in terms of ensuring that we could respond when that's in full flow CCTV queries et cetera we've got a fairly small operation team down, it will up we've got a Dépôt there with about 12 15 filled staff who basically upright maintaining all those assets and they do a of find your
we split the sort of response into the urban response in high Folkestone, etc and then the sort of the Romney Marsh area.
so there's always at least four on standby ready to respond within 24 hours, so that's fundamentally what England drainage looks like linking, most importantly, to the Argentinian watercourses.
there's another swollen, isn't there will be some questions on what, in my not, in our view, is the my England flooding risks climate change, obviously I think you know, even in the last few years we're starting to sing the intensity of going for increasing those whose summer storms winter storms last November was the wettest November 4 4 forever we had about 300% long-term average rainfall.
and if that falls in the wrong place that can cause significant flooding, coastal defences are really important to this particular area. As I say, a huge investment over the last 20 years without HMOs, most of the area would probably be under the sea anyway, so all the time those coastal defences of their we need to ensure that we can discharge from the land to the sea because the the water levels in the ditches around the land are lower than the same level, which is why we have some impromptu instructions, et cetera.
Land Use is really important as well, and that's not just about agricultural land use which links into towards equality, but also how we maintain those watercourses and obviously development has an impact on flooding as well in terms of hard surfaces, which, when we got greenfield, water can seep into the ground and then into the house, but obviously when you've got hard surfaces, that increases the rapidity of flooding. So what have we done to to mitigate these things? Understanding, communicating flood risk, that's a huge part of the Environment Agency's role in terms of flood risk management, the flood warning service, not just that the National Flood Risk Assessment, which basically breaks the whole country down into 15 into squares and does analysis of more potential flooding scale. That's how we understand flood risk and then we need to communicate that to communities at risk. Continued investment in high consequent assets. Now we have, as I say, 900 assets, we've got tens of thousands of assets across the country. The funding we need to maintain those
is vast compared to what's available, so we do use a methodology across the country of writing a consequence of failure and assets to the amount of debt investment with, yes, which means some, I say, as from Essex will get a lot of investment terms barrier one because it's really important we are able to maintain work, but the tiny little structure in the middle of Walland Marsh, probably no consequence very little funeral, and that's where the partnership funding is really important and for maintenance is not an opportunity to partnership form, but what do do whose work with what the ITB to raise money to subsidise the government will need F D G. I will get to carry out maintenance without that funding. A lot of our low consequence, areas around the Romney Marsh, Warren Marsh. We would be able to do very little maintenance and because of the lack of
not the lack of funding, but the local scrutiny make sure that funding will want to go to work in areas because it's measured in the outcome measures in 70 properties protected, so working with partners and stakeholders, probably certainly in the future, as important as the actual maintenance we do as well.
that's that's me done, I think I was worried about five minutes.
thank you, isn't it?
given I now move on to the several water and I think we've got Alexander's in Scotland.
brilliant. Thank you very much, yeah I'm Alec, Saunders, head of voice networks, John-Boy scoping, and for my team, who is the regional manager for Kent, so I think firstly what Southern Water's role with within the topic of flooding so women were responsible for managing those flows that go go through our Sue networks for over 4 million customers about 40,000 km of sewer.
three and a half thousand pump stations that I was told on my first day on the job sewage flows downhill, then we pumped up hill and you keep doing that to get to a serious treating work, so that's what we do, keeping it super simple, and in this particular district we've got 110 approach offers prompt stations, so we get it to the sewage treatment works where we in turn it into world-class referrals and renewable energy. So in terms of for my team managing those those sewer pipes in the pump stations, it's all about
to real drivers of flooding. One is something going wrong in the sewer pipe 90% of the time, and that's a sewer blockage typically consumer abuse. No, I'm sure, joined by room full of Venice here with all the things that shouldn't go down the toilet, but just as a quick reminder, three-piece pupi toilet paper only. Unfortunately many of our customers haven't quite got that message, which is something we continue to push out. So 90% live, blockages and cause flooding where
Microphone A - 0:26:24
we have to have problems, and then the other 10% is where we might have a seriously which will rapidly fix and we've endoscopy has gone through a process with a team of training, really high levels of investigation skills back in the up with much faster resolution of problems, which meant that last year we had our best year on record for flooding caused by a problem within the SUE
and so we really really really really proud of flags that there's been that's been hard for the other main driver of flooding is hydraulic problems, so nothing wrong in the sewer pipe, there's just too much water for the capacity of the network
and so those are mainly driven by a couple of key risks, one is periods of intense rainfall.
typically very localised when we have problems and and groundwater levels, which really was was the main headline story this winter, so if we move on to the next slide, please, so we had one of the wettest winters on record, if not the wettest.
when you look at the numbers.
and that put a real great pressure horse across the whole team, not just in Kent and we we stretched just as a sort of a flavour of how, probably, when we stretched our tankering contracts, are about five times the design size of that contract, putting tankers down from lots of Scotland to make sure that we could throw everything at it and make sure we protect our customers from flooding and protect the environment and worked really closely with our Environment Agency colleagues and I think we've got a session together.
it was some of you on Friday to go into all the lessons learned, there were definitely a lot of lessons that we learned from last winter and we spent the whole of the summer really trying to implement some those learnings, both investment into our network and how we how we manage the winter as well in terms of the issues that that we're localised here sculpture on to touch on this.
yeah, so in Newington MP, so the issue is grandeur. Infiltration due
Microphone C - 0:28:15
to extreme levels of brain and Tankering, was required to alleviate the pressure on our network, Barbara service partners and reduce the risk of flooding and prevent pollution at corporate fields. Sir duty groundwater and consistent heavy rainfall, Copperfield would become saturated into local drains and sewers were inundated with surface water runoff is put significant pressure on our pumping station called the darwin's and yet beat the design output of the pumping station and Reading Road. So the flooding issues were because by block cover, which was under riparian ownership, so Southern Water do not on that that ditch that cover sorry. The flooding caused our service will align to backup which caused that conversation to hydrology. I politically overload and spill from the madhouse so the pumping station was working as designed. There's two pumps in the pumping station operate duty standby so and one pump who work at any given time
so do you ITB, as since carried out some work on that cover, and over the summer months, when we experienced sudden downpours, our network quite point?
but if you can skip over the slide, was just what Scotland through if
Microphone A - 0:29:35
you go to the next slide. So in terms of some of the detail of what we're doing to reduce the risk of that hydraulic flooding going forward, so we we've certainly not rested easy this summer, so in April we had a wash up following last winter, where we, we really left no stone unturned in terms of the challenges that we had and we've then taken the lessons learned, created playbooks for all of the key areas that have been impacted and and undertaken a number of activities so poorly it down to the basic principle that we want to keep watch out to the sewer network. There shouldn't be there
any the that's in there. We want to get better at managing the situation, so we prevent flooding, people's homes and pollution to the environment, and then we want to empty the system as quick as we can. So in that order we've been doing a whole load of investigation work CCTV, surveys. That's pretty a camera down the sewer to see where water might be getting electro scanning. So when we get into the summer months when when we can no longer see groundwater coming in as the levels drop, technology that allows us to find any cracks or defects in the sewer network, that would let water in winter so we can carry on finding problems during the summer months and then following that learning, then putting together some packages of work, some that we've delivered this summer and some of them rolled into our future years of investment where we've been lining lines and that picture there is actually, I think I was one of those two people stood there, watching it on the bottom left-hand, Becky not trusted to do important jobs like that
and they are actually putting a linear intimacy in in Kent there, and so that yellow that long yellow bits like a sausage in filled with resin that we put into the sewer, impotent in sticks to the inside of the serene, basically creates a new watertight line on the Insight,
contributing doing a number of activities at that through the summer, to keep the water out in terms of our sort of management practices and some of the ways that we manage our tanker surprise and we've put a lot of focus into that, so we're ready for winter on that front and then we've also been working with the our treatment work colleagues to make sure that we're pushing our our treatment assets and as far as we can beyond what's minute,
beyond the requirements of the site, to try and treat more water at site, which means we can empty the system faster so again, leaving no stone unturned to try and do everything we can to make our assets worked, our customers and the environment.
the next slide police and then the final note from us is just looking to the future, so I've spent the last couple of years and procuring some new contracts, of which we start to turn out those today and will be mobilising. There is ready for the start of the next financial year on the 1st of April and the the sort of the devil in the detail in terms of the the the contracts that we've got is really looking to further improve our speed of response, which we've already made great strides within the last year or so improve our first-time fixed resolution and when we when we're responding to problems and reduce our overall end-to-end journey time for customers,
and make sure that all of the submersible brought in a specialist in their fields or bringing the brilliant partners to come and help us, and some of the some of the areas of innovation within that, as we go through the next few months of mobilise that we're really keen to come back out and work with you one of the obvious areas that appear countless around our manhole repair framework we would like to come out and and and have some really good conversations with.
anyone who works in the highway space in November or otherwise, because we think we've got some ways that we can basically get there faster, fix it faster until the first-half fixed, so we ought to come and work with you to make sure that the solutions and the innovation that we wanted to bring to bear to improve the service for you as a highway authority and for our customers.
is aligned with with what you want and when we look after your highlight, I think that's us, thank you, thank you next pass to, I think it was deporting all the in our Drainage Board, thank you, Nick.
Andrew Rush - 0:33:19
flow yeah, so the already pay their 112 already based in the country
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:33:26
we about the 8th largest standalone LordyBoy.
we've had the 33,000 hectares in total
of which, within should register, can sorry collection, autistic council area we cover about 18 and a half thousand hectares.
we maintain 175 kilometres of was clauses within the airing the weaker annually, we'd cutting stand only by mechanical excellent biases patiently 27 shine out on the field, weakness and also done by hand lies contracts both purposes already be pumping stations benefiting attraction of District Council area for, as Ian said earlier, the 7 agency ones as well was little control structures operated in 19 by us.
in the areas about 54 so.
we are basically a local public authorities apart the commentaries wardrobes in a district transact motions on certain was clauses under explanation parents which is under the Land Drainage Act 1991 were not statutory, consultees would be to get involved, relationships can come and becoming and advice on on sort of applications are coming, we deal with all applications in terms of Service with management and may have coming on who have some local knowledge on the bud would assist.
therefore, is the government department responsible for auditing, and we reports that for every year we are all the cheating, certainly towards the next, then you can see.
and our work is closely linked with that and the Environment Agency and Lead Local Flood Authority, subsequent Health Council, and obviously we need to be the ICS and, moreover, certain issues where there is inundation into pupil referral system.
preference another, so we were asked about how we will fund it.
this is, this is the obviously for the current year.
so, as I said earlier, I think half thousand hectares of focusing our District Council area is within the 33,000 week we look after someone with tens of funding, we will see you.
Ashford Borough, Councillor Vincent, gives the thorny Victorian autonomy area with no or low value in A and R agricultural right parents or another source of income, and they are directly which I paid directly to our speak in chargee that comes only 24% 16 sorry,
think dot 24% 16% is a rural district council and 15 abstained as yourselves going in for how the greatest landmasses we deal with, and also the value of that land, is.
higher in terms of business and domestic problem because of vehicle parasitism, Farningham, Naik, et cetera, so on the HRA or expenditure currently.
38% majority, but managed just about girls to the Environment Agency as a pre-set, as Ian referred to earlier, 34%, as of maintenance and 28% of administration, so underneath that you say that Gypsies in clinical and management which have been silting compensation, expenditure and Asset Management so that's how we funded likely the next.
height.
I personally.
there should be a lovely maps summer.
well, the map shows basically Shepway district council area that reflects not just against an area and a watercourse is we've been trying within or improve the pumping stations on the Essex, I wasn't just get very crowded and fitting, incredibly confused, rest assured there is one.
so yeah, that's that's pretty much where we are in terms of
the flooding, risks and vulnerabilities that we're looking at.
everyone's women scientists, climate change is the obvious one.
our funding streams and development of land, so mitigation, climate change is how we react to it, we have to adapt water level management is necessary, it used to be the old adage that you got rid of water in the winter kept in the summer, which is basically how we should work between 2012 we actually had a draft winter.
which you know it's an unusual thing underfunding, we need to maximise efficiencies to minimise pressure on all our funding strength, well where insightful everything costs money, but we are significantly drainage right, significantly lower compared to the rest of the country and other development requirements or said earlier the IT consultant consultants developments.
planning in County Council, where appropriate, on services stretches for providers to determine so that's information.
thank you, Nick, had for panel presentation and section I pass to Louis Smith for sub-paragraph 10 County Council as the Lead Local Flood Authority.
thank you Arsenal, family, Interim, Affordable to managing authority in County Council profile.
thank you so, and for those that there are no. In 2007, the UK experienced exceptional flooding where 55,000 properties were flooded, 7,000 people died, breath needed, rescuing and 31 people lost their lives, and in response to this the government commissioned an independent review of the lessons land may Mr Pitt Review. The review highlighted the need for a responsible agency at local level regarding progress and local councils were identified to take on this responsibility and became the Lead Local Flood authorities in 2011 we oversee local flood risk from surface water, groundwater and ordinary watercourses.
and our responsibilities include investigating significant flood incidents and publishing the findings, which are known as section 19 before.
permissive powers under the Land Drainage Act to regulate ordinary watercourses outside of the internal drainage district, and the main river, which are managed by the Environment Agency and to remain a proper, remain Tain a proper flow by issuing consent for any works on ordinary watercourses and we also undertake a statutory consultee role, providing technical advice on surface water drainage to local planning authorities and for major developments which are anything
KCC OFFICER - 0:40:03
over 10 dwellings and we prepare and maintain a Local Flood Risk Management Strategy.
I have now slipped to responses.
so the Local Flood Risk Management Strategy, as part of the Flood and Water Management Act, we must create a strategy, and in this year we are created the 24 for 34 Strategy, which was adopted over the summer, and it has four objectives to improve flood resilience across Kent.
the objectives are understanding flood risk, this objective is to help improve from flood risk management authorities to understand the local flood risk mechanisms, including the risks resulting from climate change, and to share this understanding with partners to create an evidence base for flood risk and climate adaptation this will achieve be achieved by improving communication and data sharing between the are or may so that's risk management authorities following flood events undertaking floods.
section 19 Flood investigations and supporting the next round of drainage and wastewater management plans which are undertaken by the water company.
objected to is to reduce the risk of flooding and we do this by delivering more schemes to reduce the flood rescue and working with partners to co deliver schemes and continue to provide advice on land drainage and riparian responsibility, and by doing this we aim to protect the people and businesses of Kent on flooding. We will continue to support Southern Water's clean rivers and seas Task Force and ensure that multiple benefits are included in flood risk management schemes. And, just to give a bit of background, the Southern Water clean residencies task force is looking to deliver scheme through sustainable drainage and blue green infrastructure. She takes as its water out of the sewer network
and which will help to reduce combined surface overflows and also resilient planning. So to achieve this, we continue to encourage and support planning applications to appropriately considered the delivery of suds and reduce flood risk where possible, as well as working with local planning authorities to ensure flood risk is considered in local plans and include opportunities to proactively reduce flood risk will also implement schedule 3 once it comes into effect. This is,
looking at the adoption of, as I say, sustainable drainage schemes which go into new developments which should make the county council responsible for that ongoing maintenance, and this is something that is being consulted on by DEFRA. It's currently sort of stuck in the system thanks to the election and a change of government apparently resilient communities. We aim to support residents and businesses of Kent to better prepare, understand and manage their own flood risk, as appropriate by having access to relevant flood risk information. Communities and individuals are empowered to act to protect themselves from flooding through individual efforts, partnership and joint work, and so I can have slide
and permanent, obviously Folkestone, these are the projects that we have either delivered or that we are currently undertaking for this area, so in Down's Road we delivered rain gardens which took away the surface water, which are flow significantly down over roads and culminated in a small area of Down's Road causing significant flooding the rain gardens with delivered in 2018 arm and doping really effective alongside work with Southern Water who are quoted as to the system so.
a combined effort to really significantly reduce the flood risk to local properties. We're currently undertaking the Folkestone and Strategic Flood Risk Management Strategy, which is looking at how we can deliver a sustainable drainage and blue green infrastructure across Folkestone. So I'm not sure if people are aware that Folkestone is a rapid response catchment. It means that surface water from build-up to significant debt from particular areas within a 30 minute period and pose a risk to life, so we're looking at how we can capture that surface water flow and discharge to ground as quickly as possible to reduce that risk of flooding to those properties. At the moment, we have got some outline work to look at the potential opportunities to deliver those schemes across the area, and we are currently doing some modelling around the constraints to see what is actually feasible, but it is an ongoing scheme and quite an exciting opportunity to look at what can be delivered across a big area. We have partnered with the Environment Agency on the Folkestone, virtual flood warden scheme, so the Environment Agency were looking to roll this out as a pilot at the Folkestone. This allows people to access flood Whorlton information via QR code. The scheme was targeted to quite a small area but with KCC's investment into it and partnership working it's been able to be rolled out across the whole of Folkestone. So you will start to see signs and residents will be getting information around the QR codes, which means that they can access the information questions they have around flooding and they'll be answered violate telephone, so you know an app is much easier to access, perhaps then a person and people are thinking at that moment in time about what their flood risk might be. They can get the answers immediately and and finally, folks, to receive levelling up funding which they had passed over to Kent county council's major capital schemes to help them deliver. This is quite a big programme, but rain gardens are part of it and we're supporting that work to make sure that they go in. So as well as the highway improvement, work were keen to see rain gardens integrated into it as a demonstration and a pilot of what could be achieved in terms of Highway upgrade.
one inch infrastructure development across an area and how we can then integrate that with a Flood Risk Management.
that's all for me, thank you.
thank you very much. I think it was useful to have those specific projects they were, I think we were all Folkestone, so is there are a kind of broader projects that could be shared across the district. That would be helpful and also just in terms of other contributors,
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:46:12
the the kind of investment work that's going on. It would be really useful to similarly understand what the kind of local immediate priorities are in in a similar way and but thank you very much for the contributions on that that first part of the meeting, so I will open it up to members of the Committee for questions. If we can keep it particularly around inland flooding, at this stage that would be helpful
Councillor Butcher
thank you for your questions for Southern Water, particularly about the Newington and theme operation, because no put behind that story of
Cllr James Butcher - 0:46:42
the tank cooperation is a lot of lines disrupted. Service drinkers were operating 24 hours a day running at before hours, keeping people awake at night and so on, and I think there's something in terms of the lessons learned about the way in which you engage with the community. So they feel communicated with and have some capacity to influence the way the tankers are driven and operators. There were problems nylon, we where the tankers were parked and until they have put this delicately, but some of the three P's from the drawings as we're not ending
sewer system.
so I think it'd be really appreciated by those communities with St had any heat channel of communication with regards to the grave problems and be alerted went ahead of time if that's going to be raising this with my wellbeing and the second beg the question, then is what news you can get about investment for a sustainable solution to the problem, thank you.
so in terms of where we can maybe catch up afterwards in terms of
Microphone A - 0:47:47
getting over all the specific details, wrongdoing that during that season right now, but we absolutely linked link your local community in without seeing Scott's team work locally, so we can make sure that any anything that we haven't already captured in our learning, Rachel that's aligned with anything that went on and make sure that are built into our into our response plans. Clearly we understand that tankers are disruptive. The noisy this work is 24 7 because waters doesn't support. Not, unfortunately, the situations and the reasons that were there as I'm sure you understand is to is to protect themselves from flooding and environment, so we we we don't want to to be there. We certainly don't do it lightly is that there is a sort of protect for those reasons and all of the work that we have been doing the summer and will continue to do over coming years. It's unfortunately this. This challenge is not one that we can just solving matter of months, but we're certainly, both in terms of the amount of investment we've put in some of these areas, an investigation work is absolutely both in terms of what we can do operationally, but then also, as you'll find out shortly from from people like Nick in terms of and as we heard, that from some the other speakers, some of the work we're doing on a wider basis to basically keep keep the watch out the sewer network that shouldn't be the because it, as I said, there is not not a the sewer network, works works, fine when, when we're not in this groundwater seasons, so we know the sewer network works, it's not a case of just building a sooner or biggest sooner works. I've just fill up and we've had the same problem, and it's about making sure the water that shouldn't be in their stays out of their that's what we've been doing operation need to, make sure that if there's anything that we can identify quickly resolved quickly, we had done, and then in the bigger picture, and Nick Nick will touch on some of them, Rebecca work, that we're doing in that space
sorry, but we'll definitely catch up with the officers and make sure that we will leave generally.
there was a reserved second partner, whereby answer.
great
Councillor health.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:49:38
Councillor Tony Hills - 0:49:41
thank you Chair, yes, sorry.
I work with all the organisations and they work very hard to keep us safe, but they can't change the whether climate change is the problem, it's happening, it's real, it's now, it's only going to get more extreme, so we have to make ourselves fit for that going forward.
adaptation is what it's all about, what works now won't necessarily work in the future, and I'll give an example for Southern Water Nettlestone pumping station had, I think, in November, over 500 hours, overpumping continuously.
I had tankers coming in, we wish to make, not just from Nigeria's indeed and controls where I happen to live by the way, but I also came in from East Sussex.
all over the place, and that's fine putting that both you've got to go somewhere because as far as it goes, but putting exact millstone, serious rugs meant you had to get rid of it straight away and it wasn't I believe it wasn't you'll be treated so it was going straight out the complete mixed bag community and no windows, so I would say I would say it'd be looking forward, these things can happen again and I think it will. It must have more storage facilities
I think the Middlestone needs more storage to retain that water for longer, and then it can be processed properly and when its release is being you be treated, so I think is set forward planning we got to doing the forward planning on how we can actually get ourselves future-proof
thanks, Councillor health.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:51:25
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:51:30
Councillor Martin, thank you Chair my questions around.
the water table on the Marsh and just be keen to better understand the extent to which we can actually control that it's possible you've already address that and I'm not intelligent not to pick up on the points that you've made but living on the Marsh, particularly last winter, it's the water table is a massive issue for lots of us who actually have cesspits or treatment plants all which filed.
last year I had a completely new treatment plan put in with a soakaway the size of a swimming pool underlying drawings which was completely ineffective, the reason being, if I dug a hole in my garden, it would immediately fill up with water, there was just no capacity for the Marsh to enable that to to soak away so in supposed to one keen to understand how you how or whether you can do anything to control or manage the water table.
and also what the the impact of that is on on residents.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:52:35
that's that is a very tricky question to answer of, I've got a site, the the the the soils, on the rumbling Arsenal, Gregory's sedimentary, you've got a whole mixture of sources of groundwater close to where we are now and you've got poor water pressure up here, that's pushing water down, we got water running into the system and obviously the enlarged play area. That is where all the reinforce it just go straight into the ground, we can only remove what comes into our minds.
Edinburgh was courses, I think control of the groundwater is probably not more power, I think that's the groundwater is is a lot of the issue we can only remove so much as its coming into the watercourses into our to our assets of furthermore and there's probably a lot more complex answer to that, but I do I do think
you'll see they're very difficult or impossible, and we have to be really careful, because what would be the impact of taking more about the grandmother to it's just come a company from somewhere else.
do any of our other guests on to come in on?
only the opposite.
with drainage Hilton about flexible system.
I should be designed to the ground therein for one thing.
so I mean, without getting too far district, provide new.
why above any sort of normal water tables into single, however, or suffer the side of governments, septic tank as well, so you know?
clauses, assistance or whatever with the drainage field
it is a Council they should be designed or tested for vital allows them to dissipate.
for all conditions, and I know it's not, it's not the answering romp, but it has been amended, so we've Graham Waters at ease with the market is because it is, although we can you know them punching the winter, you know you are pumping stations working the everything into my endeavour to get it out, to see if those can be an irritation and this time he says
in a climate change is gonna existed by that I mean, last October, we had arranged should arranged in three weeks at the end of October, which was half a problem with with Copperfield, et cetera, et cetera need, so it's it's stronger for that at the same time being administering or no Tony has been working hard in terms of the future with what all authorities can do to improve what assets we have looking forward next, including speaking to Southern Water, so yeah, there's no there's no, we can't say we're going to get any Bram also on that yeah, it's it's one of those things that we live in.
so be aware of the perils of overpumping groundwater, as seen up in
Microphone F - 0:55:36
the fence.
for many decades now, wherein effectively?
Hunt themselves into a hole by reducing groundwater levels are improving picture incurred
8, which is not part of all of the songs on the March, will certainly some of them, so it's reducing groundwork was not without risk.
livingstone groundwater levels.
thank you, do you want to come back on that point from us?
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:56:06
yeah, obviously a touch slightly worrying, there is naturally a isn't actually an answer, but I guess everyone's focuses on keeping water out of the sewers, keeping as the sewers operating, so they're efficiently, removing what's what's in the SA, I guess if the the the more your preventing water from getting into some of the more you actually contributing to the problem that is arguably the the big ambition for local people.
so I'm not, but we're not acting as a land drain with the sewer system
Microphone D - 0:56:35
very running a very narrow corridor, and one to towns point in store store which has a role, but what we've got groundwater storage tanks will fill out an estate full up until the groundwater goes back, dance is all about what Alexis are moving to, which is that it's about keeping those soon sealed actually to a higher standard so nationally with we're working with a number of other companies rewriting established that there are better Snapple facilities in these pressurised areas.
and we have been successful in keeping it out in other areas said some of those learnings are being deployed.
in the area and will continue to be we've made, a special case will flock to do more of that in our area because, because of the unique conditions we got, so it is about keeping the rainwater the groundwork throughout the so desperately action.
thank you, and once the Committee has not spoken up, Councillor Jones.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:57:23
I might turn.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:57:29
it is because Westminster for Southern Water are pretty pleased that.
the convenience situation might be resolved this year I was talking to hide residence warning, there's a lot of uncertainty about what happened last winter as you might imagine, the question which residents were asking me was actually a money based 1 this morning I'm sorry if it's a bit cut off to the point that bills are going up.
but in the press.
it does seem to be getting large bonuses citizens being paid out,
they want to know how why is it fair that they should be paying couldn't upgrades, the these upgrades should be coming from money that's already in the company and not being paid out dividends and bonuses?
so I think it's really important to offset difficult question and I'd like to know the answer please.
Microphone A - 0:58:27
who would like to take this on yeah, so next section topless Southern Water, not not bother wards complaints in terms of since it was privatised the net inflow of money, it's not an outflow of money in terms of divergence has met him for about 400 million over time, so if you take dividends out and and private investment in outside of customer bill so private investment coming in Sunday improve money so as far as the Southern Water's concerned,
money has not left companies through dividends there.
in that respect, the other side of it is in terms of.
how we regulate and Horizon teaching Waterstock Excel is,
effectively, customers are protected graph 1 where they weren't pay twice for something so anything in a previous business plans we reckon five-year investment cycles, and we're currently going through that period of of agreeing our plan for the next five years, risks which starts starts next year.
that that the money that that comes in from from customers' bills and the like is is dedicated to certain outcomes, and so, of course, in a purchaser customers. Right won't pay twice for the same thing. So what were what we're really talking about here is we're not talking about a sewer network that hasn't been invested in and and isn't working, as as we've established the sewer network fundamental works. What we're talking about here is that groundwaters, the principles is getting into Susan, as, as we found in some of the really good case, studies that we put, it was done. The sewers are nationally graded as a sort of Grade 1 to 5 1 being picked up and five being a full-on collapse. The local sewers that we're finding that we need to take to this higher standard than Nick mentioned earlier
our up at that Grade. One, they're good, serious in terms of they will. They will do the job they're designed for fundamentally when you got groundwater creating the kind of pressure that we saw at Windsor pushing into the sewer network. They're not designed for that, and so what we're doing with all that learning role at the picture as at the earlier, and that's learning work, not just on our sewers but also on the private connections to it. So where we've had real success is actually about a
50 50 split of water doesn't discriminate waters, doesn't care who owns the pipe in the ground, is actually going beyond that and seeding private connections to the sewer network, as well as our own sewer networks, to keep up all throughout and where we've had the best accessible. The Caistor thesis is that kind of model, so the the the case going forward, we've had a massive change in public opinion, as everyone knows, in the last sort of five years or so since around COVID and so all the other business plans were aimed at taking the sewer network and and and reducing spills. Not yeah, so it's our highest standard then than has ever been effectively agreed through that through that mechanism, because it was so
hopefully that us, I think, that that kind of make sense, answer question, it doesn't really answer the question, I was asking about
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:01:16
bonuses and I was asking about how much money you are investing and I wanted a clearer picture March I can see that you're trying to maintain what you've already got but with climate change when claiming add to that meeting please that infrastructure because it's only going to get worse as enough to be confirmed.
like many other brutalities answer, so so we haven't paid dividends in
Microphone D - 1:01:37
2017.
OK, OK, I can't comment on the bonuses that the investment in the next five year cycle.
from an environmental point of view is four times the size of the current one, we are looking at a plan that is.
a billion pounds of investment for the plan has got a lot bigger as we go into the next one of the one that we're currently in has come to an end with a large one as well, so investment is increasing.
as we go into the next industrial cycle.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:02:09
OK, thank he'd be grateful if you could answer Councillor Lyons's question outside of the meeting Councillor Chapman or just in case
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 1:02:16
it's helpful, I just checked and the bosses southernwater. His bonus was 183,000 that was on top of a significant six figure salary and my residents want to know why somebody is getting a bonus like that when they can't swim in the sea or that you know and I appreciate that the bathing waters next section or they're dealing with flood water waters regularly or they've got trucks trundling pasta homes for morning.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:02:52
thank you for the clarification Denby like to comment on that.
what will follow up on that?
Microphone D - 1:03:02
thank you, I'm keen just to make sure that we are able to move on to
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:03:03
the other section, Councillor McConville, you haven't spoken so far.
sorry, you a couple of points, the first ones to the ICB and perhaps
Cllr Connor McConville - 1:03:16
even Arun officers you talked about the drainage rate, so the money you obviously get through reflection hydrants at Council and you said it was lower than that from other parts of the country selling is there is there the potential to to increase that and you know has has any sort of case been put forward to to looking to increase that.
so it'll be interesting to know and where you obviously give a precept, the Environment Agency is that money ring fence to look after assets in our own area or is that just go into a wider national pool and that the question in terms as well,
4 Councillor, firstly, Ian Wilson secondary.
year in terms in terms of the special living.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:04:02
a current right, it gets complicated for reading some coming through progress at our current rate 6.6 16 pounds.
some of the things a country could be 30 things.
and in terms of the agricultural rate, there was a programme on concerns and asking country for three months ago where something's complaining by paying 40 pounds lighter Land, Drainage right, the former champions roughly average out three things, so we are significantly lower than for many of them in terms of be going up over the last standing in the last two years reflects a significantly increased because of fuel costs electricity costs,
previous direct, we try to keep it all the time within the 10% limit that we will sort of for in transport governance practically 77.
looking forward to the coming year, we should be able reduce it again, so this current useful on 4% increase we're hoping to get nearer to, so we shouldn't seek going up, I hope, and there's some catastrophe happens somewhere else involving will cause Sydney Gallop accordingly.
so yeah, I will we're looking at, it should increase significantly, so if we can no Nathan going to to Ian Bell, we were very prudent online, we operate with our finances and lower Board is somewhat large that we don't tie mentoring and they do it for the love of it.
the Single majority they should have won, the Board was upon the instances Councillor representation and punching walls has got 60% of Council representation on the board currently paragraph, not voluntary members already in here that I can say so, they have made to scrutinise what we do and where the money goes in health allocated so hopefully that of
so the second part of the precept for the item being paid to us is
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:06:02
it's a legal requirement under the water resources and affordable ongoing jobs, and it's it's in there about paying for the benefit of our our work to the already be in the drainage district so back in the 70s 80s the precept used to go up and down in accordance with the amount of investment in the capital programme, so if you can imagine quarter of a million pounds of investment in the Romney Marsh is item bring patch that would have been a huge percentage in terms.
the precept to to to come to us we we agreed back in name, you're thinking items 1 teams to actually set at a much more flexible right that we negotiator and value each year.
subsidies is effectively, our work in local screens, areas pays for electricity for pumping.
some of the wind, cutting grass-cutting presentation, management of manoeuvre where we we don't get funding from government will continue that it's just not quite enough risk in terms of proportion, what the what can we say more having been is an amalgamation of their whole funding Court so if I remember rightly was at about 60%,
so it do we spend 60% in Folkestone and heights catchment area who knows we probably do because it's such a vast parts of the Romney Marsh and there's so much lower consequent stuff we wouldn't don't spend that money, Folkestone we don't spend more than I because that seems the funding we need, you actually subsidise others. Also we use some of that money to subsidise some of the strategy work in some of the early capital work.
along the focus skins as well, so it's if in theory, we can spend it wherever you like, but we have a relationship with the already being where we sit down to you in a green where we're going to spend that precepts and how much it is once going for many years certain pre-COVID going through COVID and kept it falls flat.
it was only when we saw that massive inflation rise a few years ago, we increased it by 1 6 6% over two years will be a little 3%.
school,
there are now very helpful, thank you.
and any exceptions part, I guess, probably toward Southern Water, but
Cllr Connor McConville - 1:08:31
what anyone might have a view on it just be interested to know what you are doing in terms of perhaps targeted interventions to deal with, we will soon network, sorry, you know, for example, on a bramble, although I know your what you're very keen to.
meetings with local services, water drainage, for example, at Board about symbols that that the using similar story, for example, to target you know, either residential commercial properties, to help them, dear, referred the sort of the fact that wages and salaries and I'll be quite interested to know things rather.
and
there are also instances our overseas TV where the Department for the Environment Department vacant land, both within certain areas of the district that perhaps concerned network is no contract with the foul goes or whatever, sorry, the examples employment, but maybe a heat map of somebody's honeymoon from engulfing quietly seem to know where we can I give the Councillors in that ward or what other areas could be transplanted to reflect local needs as well says part of across all parties will join documents shall not be worthy.
absolutely and yes, the commercial properties and I'm sure we can
Microphone D - 1:09:49
share some thanks on heat maps, but I will probably talk progress on the agenda on all of those subjects and one that we do not opted. Yes,
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:10:00
thank you OK, thanks to turn, practical suggestions are Councillor Martin, I know you were indicating. As an inland flooding, the will still want to come in before we move on
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:10:11
thank you very much Chair, and can I say first of all thank you to all
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:10:19
of our guests, we've got some very senior yeah this evening and him on grateful for the new they've come along, to to explain and answer questions from members of the Committee just just in answer to to some of the questions that it could be team we are,
a lot.
are seeking additional funding from the government
for the internal drainage board, the launch of thank yous in a couple of weeks' time, Andy Gray but sorry anyway, arm attending and where we are going going to lobby the government for additional funding for the internal drainage group, but just to get onto the 9 to us as it were.
Councillor here, which is absolutely right, this is all about a lack of capacity, we don't have enough storage in the system to hold the water, but then again we ever have enough storage in the system to how the water, the
the fact that all of the sewers me to be green ground, etc now the is an indication of 40 years of underinvestment sandwich say, but I just wanted to make an appeal to our guests and to use the example of the flooding Bruton Road last year.
most of which the householders are still not back in their properties, so there had been out of their homes for almost a year, very distressing for various concern.
but it was a a beached upfield which note riparian application which the landowner didn't fulfil and recover, which was mentioned earlier, the responsibility, the internal drainage board, which was blocks but has subsequently been replaced, and when they pitch older filed, if someone started company into the Sierra,
the wanted it flowed out onto the road was the responsibility of KCC, but when we lived abroad for flood into the sewer, it became the responsibility of Southern Water and therefore the pump overwhelmed and hints the flood now.
the loss adjusters.
went her appointed and they just go back because there were so many in their view, culpable people, I didn't know which direction to to a net trying, so it's an example of how interrelated all of these agencies are and,
my appeal is greater cooperation
I will tell me, but in a robbery, cooperate, right and eyebrow I don't think I think is, shall we say, scope for improvement yeah Romney at.
a detailed map of individual responsibilities is bizarrely us, so it's a re re can tell who is responsible, for which teach which Dyke, which drawing.
nobody else can they will know what they're responsible for themselves, but not for what their partners are responsible for, so I think there is a really is an opportunity to increase the overall, and what we're talking about here is protection, because you know last year,
we came very, very close, very close to some major flooding.
on the Marsh, and you know it could rhinos match or more again,
it next year, so you know my appeal is for greater cooperation, we at Folkestone, Hart District Council, are very, very willing to play up, are and ankle we, we all major stakeholders in we've got our own treatment plants which which contribute so you know we're very very, very keen to see, as you know, Councillor McConville said a see, some joined-up thinking here let's let's work together because,
this is a problem Les were seeking to prevent.
and we are at to everyone who lives and Romney Marsh today wrong, thank you.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:14:58
Councillor Martin, let's move on to the next section and then I'm sure that theme of cooperation we can move is there at the end of the session, thank you, Andrew.
thank you, so we've moved on to bathing water quality are put on
Andrew Rush - 1:15:11
screen the the current status of our bathing water beaches, as you can see, not all have up in 2019 for banning orders, she's been gravestone downwards.
I'll fall outside of the scheme and the the to wander off out of concern of office, obvious St Mary's Bay, which were pointing to Hawkhurst Green from management to and then Nettlestone, which unfortunately for 18 2023, so that's where a lot of our focus has been this year in particular there is also considerable concern round the the test results, dip church and unfortunately, resources being a bit of respite it didn't September in terms of folks in sunny sounds
so that's the sort of the summary of where we are.
bain ward assistance here since, even as he says, this 15th May to 30 September and we kept the official resignations usually round boundary at the December time, so I'll pass over now to the Environment Agency and,
Microphone E - 1:16:21
and so precise, bathing all says.
our teams dear with all the agricultural inspections as the water resource inspections, and we do all the water quality and we deal with all the incidents as well, so although David Waters is a high priority for us, we have a very large workload and I'm not that many people currently,
and
so we are subject to the organisation and we will always follow the sides, and that's what we've done was all either skating here.
sorry, I thought you could have.
little discussion around some of the responsibility and where they live.
all the responsibilities round baby was to set out in the bathing water regulations 2013.
for older public bodies and for each aspect of bathing water management, secretary of State through Jesper is responsible designation as he designated bathing waters, providing guidance on how to implement the regulations.
preparing reports on bathing water set the seasons and acting as enforcer when local authorities fail to meet their duties.
the Environment Agency, it's I've written up there, we do the monitoring, assessing and classifying a fatal waters through Jethwa, and also passing on the information on begging is to the public, mostly through to ask him to our website.
we're also responsible for notifying basis of pollution incidents when they happen, and warning of short term permission 5 since our website.
the best way to improve water quality, and, and it's how you are working as prostitutes three years when to work collaboratively and constructively in partnership with the worst companies and local authorities, and we meet regularly with all of their property as their bodies in order to try to achieve this.
next question was around, sorry could you go back through, so the next question was around how we sample, so we have to take 20 regulatory found cause for each site every year under the Bingham wards speculations, those are the regulatory samples and both in the ones that are used to produce gratification.
it works on a four year rolling average, so for years worth of data is taken each year and an algorithm is applied which is chronic, complex and then your classification is given, but if you have a good year followed by several bad was then the classification will fall.
it is not quite as simple as that.
so I sat our samples are taken via a prescribed process from the World Health Organisation and sent two classified now, but this is young processes is acceptable or regulatory samples.
the processing of the samples take five days because back to you are living things and you have to be grown.
so as soon as some sort of variables against the Frenchman folk,
and that's available for everyone to play,
there's also lots of other useful information and entering, so so I particular back processes, so if anyone hasn't had a look, it would be useful to just checking and see if there's anything you answered needs to be.
we have an exciting.
and so, as as Andrew said, we get the results of the clarifications late December no late November early December and the results from Fargo until then, sorry, we aren't allowed to talk practice, patients isn't, even if you knew them before then.
and that's under the payment was regulations, that's not our choice.
so some of the message was to investigate.
70 field investigation was, so I'll with regards and take samples act, as is noted, sites where, where the sample are dated previously been very high, we're also doing subsidiary something at the moment and at sites that are problematic.
give us more data because a fatal water samples any other spot sample, it's only ever what the was because he is at that moment at that spot, so somebody could stand next to me if I would take me one get completely different results, it's it's very crude to, I suppose,
but that's what we have to work with, so we didn't feel the investigations would take a samples, we do data analysis in 20 analysis on our maintain, the very much involved in that, so they analyzed the trends every week and tell us where we're going, but they also going to ruin samples as well looking for extra problems and that we might find.
we identify improvement actions and we ask our partners to help us with that.
Southern Water have been very interactive in in this field and taking on parcel of action, spending a lot of money, and we've also been liaising with Andrew and his officers, who has taken on other actions as well, I think we're doing well in working together but we're moving towards it and a more cohesive approach currently we now have a joint inspections of all our actions keeping and when they should be doing them so that we can all keep track on each other.
so things we've looked at produced 53 beaches, and the samples at St Mary's barrel are not better this year, the samples of permission to sort of buried buried diffuser, so we've got we found.
when we get down in our analysis.
dog faeces, lots of avian avian DNA.
human species from Ms connections and also a bit of agricultural
for full cattle, so we've done a lot of agricultural inspections to try and cut that down.
we've done extensive DNA testing, it's very, very expensive, it's up to 1,000 pounds per sample, finding common different mortgage, you want to look for and also takes a long time it takes well.
you can tape.
6 weeks to get it analysed because it's not like it's not like CSI when they drifted shine a light on it and you've got your DNA, it's a biological process and it's very complex.
so we've done a lot of partnership work with Southern Water to eliminate the impact from Ms connections respectful or the assets that they have, although it was inspecting again just to be sure.
we brought to the operation of the EU exit leased to see whether that has coordinated with heartbreaking all samples, and we found that it doesn't,
we addressed bird feeding coastal watercourses and our partners in Andrew department are working on that currently, and it's not as easy as it seems.
range you're doing additional sampling and in a bit of sediment sampling round the coast.
government to have undertaken more said that something we did some ourselves, but I think it's becoming more responsive on cyber recently in relation to the results.
to see what bacteria and load is being held in the sediment in the water course, in the in growing, in the absence of obvious big sources, that there is a bacteria alleged somewhere.
we've worked extensively, rings with a yourselves into the water to identify properties on this septic tanks, respite drainage systems, incontinence with groundwater, and having found them Southern Water have connected and almost all of one of are today, so that's alpha at no cost to the residents despite some of these incidents to scan extended period of time since you could interpret.
he started one outstanding, but hopeful that will come forward in time.
we stood 22 additional NHS funding,
none of our bathing water work has funding anytime, it's a 1,500 hours we spent on the sofa for a bit more now
has come from other project because it doesn't have, even as you'll find me sorry, if you want to do to do something to help, you could lobby your MP to get some additional funding for it.
and and forward because.
the time were spending less time taken away from other projects that are also urging, maybe not majority support.
the investor to go to the correlation of states, the tide and title drift, for example carers, and I haven't really pounds anything pink.
that Jim church, we have seen an elevated samples as soon as the school holidays began, but finished as soon as the school holidays.
so we investigated the toilets at various rates, this haven't found anything like as going postal from all departments have a level knock, there's definitely something going on with the numbers of people coming in, and I did ask at a previous meeting if anyone has any ideas they could let me know so I haven't had any input and if anyone has any ideas,
he visited the caravan parks to check their outlawed.
they should we've done everything we can possibly think of that might have an input.
I suspect that global warming has an input at last year was a very bad year to seaweed, sequence started really only so it got a good growth on it and CBDs problematic because it shields the bacteria from the right which kills it off and also gives us a really good environment to grow and so that was problem I so we haven't had quite so much this year but there is definitely some
growth had days when all the samples down the coast between hearing staffing have failed for no apparent reason, so that's being looked into nationally, there is definitely something else going on this figure as as well as his minus sources.
we very pleased and results at St Mary's Bay of better this year, which I'm sure you will notice and it will look into what can be done around that.
but it's very slow time consuming work, a Texan not a partner and lots of extra to ease a lot of scientists expertise to deal with this.
so and there's also a lot of information and this information flying around about about the date and Walters and what we're doing.
plan, it would be really helpful if people could ask.
rather than make assumptions around what's occurring because we have to follow the signs, always because that's what we're doing.
I
thank you.
excellent move on to Southern Water, and I think it is.
Nick Nick will make. Thank you very much. Advises cover a lot of this. There are uncover cover some of the key points, one and some of the
Microphone D - 1:28:13
actions in an update the action plan. As of September, we obviously have a reiki key role, illness and key custodian, with which we really mentioned. The partnership is very important because we don't control everything. We have clearly some responsibility for our assets, but as Rosie well articulated, this is clinical practitioner in this area. I can offer some abandonment build direct side, please
this is a complex issue, but one of the things 26 mentioned there is around taxi, some of the conclusions some people need to. Actually, if you look at storm overflows with very confident that's unlikely to be the issue, please, when you look at the highest samples we've had over the last three years and in any one example that actually correspondences some as well, so it is something else, hence huge investigation work that we've been undertaken for over three years now, together with the Council, but also the information see and redacting now launched as well, or community background steering group, which I think was very successful and well received, and we are committed to continuing the that if we let into some of those things that we're doing on the ground again, reiterating the point on the next time, if that's OK, we we do need to tackle these issues together.
we have regular technical, but also was seen as steering groups with both for postal, on how District Councillor, but also if I'm agency, to understand where we're at that big spreadsheet that Rosie recognised mentioned is something that we will help to Campbell is greatly welcome at.
but we do need to chase the things, so some of the things that we're doing there is a case in a format in stock, either Alan K, so he's looking there for potential contamination in our surface water network system for services network is discharged typically Stratford environment with no treatment where we've got foul connected illegally into that we will to chase up to network, it is very hard to find those connections because it was very nice network as underground.
nicknamed as seriously as up-to-date today, the investigators that can find that at 1.00 root cause, but also that there's other things in other sources that we we, we help try and get to the bottom of the sampling that he mentioned included critical to understand whether DNA indicating, but also we look at the time to help understand where in the catchment could be coming from that some of the things that we do and I will come on to, I think I've got a sliver table, show some of the things that we've done so top boxes in some of the connections that we've found in the gratification that this is where we've got foul. Caractacus surface water which would be untreated so leads to things like washing machines, toilets, showers, which is typical scenario is it is a garage
typically connected to the surface water, because that's a toilet offering a toilet and was up in the soulful source of action, so that there are things that we chase down sewers we've mentioned, obviously there's an asset that could pose a risk, we are CCG doing all of those and on as round going back round that would make sure when I think changed and where we find out any issues we are resolving them.
third party issues, things like cesspit, so interest-only, we are connecting at our costs, those private properties to our network, to remove the assessments which
where were leaking into watercourses so will almost finished that work. Some of those are holiday homes, which makes it difficult, and I think generally the however hands are very difficult to trace because you have to have to be occupied when we're looking for some of these these contamination issues, so that does does add an element of challenge and or alongside what Rosie raging were also being or all year round sampling, including some of the settlement proposition, want blood samples apart for that better or just add to the mix, because data is key, we've got a broader signs, so absolutely important. We do that or will chase something that is not going to solve the problem, so one slide really is just how can we add when we get
so the yacht outcome, you'll want, we can obviously see Sundrop's inquiry results improving, which is really welcomed, but that please continue to work with us for the collaboration, welcoming definitely the way to go forward, come and talk to us.
where the doors are open, please come and see what we do and come to our site because, St John on herself, we will will make that happen, and we we would love to hear feedback on the Committee Steering Group and and how we can improve those.
the holiday homes. I think is is it is a challenge for us all, so let's see in producing joint comes on that and I will be great and how we can make sure we get into the contacts on those properties and report anything you, you suspect, could be a pollution if people to us, you mentioned about pollution that gets right to topple for Julie and Julia as soon as you say, because we are looking for potentially lots of very small sources or anything you see don't need a two weeks to call us
we want to know as soon as possible and we can get the platform to investigate and take that that is we could be, essentially, you could be seeing their source of something that is contaminated nature, that that's that's a previous.
and or other updates and short whilst the question.
just to finish, Charles can, as was asked to do without the Council's
Andrew Rush - 1:33:35
role, he's basically have a formal or informal role first formal role is, I think, as Rosen mentioned was Zenden bathing water regulations, which is a warning and informing role which is basically update in the signage before the 15th of May rainwater seeking start, we do it in advance of that anyway and,
when the down the official classification or the designated features, and then our second responsibility to younger bathing water regulations is to work with them again in terms of warm reforming and resolving was called short term, pollution is an incident, thankfully, we have fewer beans,
but leasehold 492 planning maintenance as well.
so that's our formal role as a Council, I think we have our partner role which had sought fallen into because of what's happened, will debate ward.
we are not, as I say, the water regulator, but we can engage as a partner and advocate for the meeting during 2 ways, firstly, operationally work and work collaboratively with Yohan Southern Water or partners, and we quite naked when push for more resource in for investigation, strong feeling that more testing it's done more quickly will result performance sufficient classified beaches and then a strategic level which I think the later saw him appointed to review has counselled has to take greater investment in the District's watering structure for various regional groups and and sort of our activities, as well as the Council over the last few years have been to really we've had to rebound standing of our infrastructure, we've had to set up a lot of Welton gauged for the officer group some Executive which local meetings and support actions where we can.
and I know, as I said, we have, we have when they are nakedly, and I'm ashamedly pushing for more testing, and I know it's very expensive we're doing as the testing in and out of season, or that's just a summary of what the Council will is thank you.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:35:40
thank you very much for those contributions, and again I'll open it to members of the Committee for questions, Councillor Jones.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:35:53
rescue already, thank you really interesting, presentations and devastating for our area, I need to say that we don't really know what the problem is and why we're in this position, so I think that's quite scary for residents, for businesses and our local tourism industry.
and I'm sure you are going to work as hard as possible to make sure that we can resolve this as soon as possible, and I hope to see a lot of investment into this because for a district we'd have such a large coastal area, this is terrible news that we can't solve the problem, particularly looking at Folkestone didn't Church of since being downgraded that's very worrying.
again, I was talking to some wild swimmers in Hyde this morning
very keen swimmers but despairing in the amount of times that water is there's as discharges into the same, they will have the app, so they know when it happens even happen from dry days, apparently, so it's not just when it's rained so.
they've they've put together a strategy, this swimmer their head out of the water and they're determined to keep going, but I mean there have been incidents of sickness severe sickness caused by I've seen ingesting some of the water, so I think it is really concerns me for children and our future generation so we've got to get this right we need to put more money and more planning into this and I would urge Southern Water to
I think I think you are working hard on it, but I think I then there is clearly a lot of misunderstanding about
what you're doing so, perhaps better working work with the public within good, so that they know that you are working hard on this case, people really dismayed particularly.
the sum as I was talking to, but I mean all overhype, you know, you talk to people and we want to be able to use our beaches, we want our children to be able to swim Abbey, we're missing a swimming pool, it meant so actually we have to see
so people need to be able to swim.
it just for health reasons as well, obviously we will look at lobbying our MP as well, but
I am hoping to see a lot more investment in this, particularly from Southern Water, thank you.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:38:08
thanks Councillor Jones, I'll take some questions before we go back to the gas Councillor McConville, then Councillor Butcher, thanks yeah,
Cllr Connor McConville - 1:38:13
we're just elaborate a little bit more on on on what Councillor James said.
George bit surprising, we, we said no out of 320 or suffering Environment Agency testing, things that are only one was linked to throughout fly, which is now obviously very good, and you and you obviously the your own independent testing, do you the test all the time and there is outflows work like say every day there's an outflow with a certain area in interest every day of action and if and and whether you publish learning independent tests for what we do for other now just really helped create a much better overall picture of everything that's going on.
and you know, you might not be aware, but some of our town and parish councils have started paying for their own testing and enhanced testing, no options which council tax or transfer powers money, largely because the Environment Agency only do it in certain time. You say there, I'd like to know whether water quality is like me round, but if you are doing your own independent testing, possibly in the same areas where people could be doubling up, so I mean you know, if you're if you're already testing in that in those areas that needed to get in contact with local Town and Parish Council No, so they're not paying legal Islam for its accessing results in you, possibly to provide
come back on that, yeah yeah, please let me to join up on sharing data
Microphone D - 1:39:36
recently and I'm sure the bomb-making Siba a view on that to the I'm sure we can share that data if he sent in a request we have two anyway, so let's get smart about how we could do that and support each other and happy to take any more to thank you.
Microphone E - 1:39:52
and as far as I know, you don't see what.
where would only be doing testing empowering investigation, yeah yeah, so that that data is is more frequent than potentially annual classification so yeah?
and
I I might, and I think is that later that?
date, it is only as good as the message to connect collected by and in order to being relevant, it has to be taken into the correct process and then unreleased as a correct, and they have had sex apprentices.
and if it's not, then the data doesn't mean anything so.
then maybe I'll come back to that later.
Claire Fox had Councillor Brett's from on Councillor Chapman.
thank you Chair, it was just to commit background, due to the last
Cllr James Butcher - 1:40:42
time officers were here back in April 2023.
and from the minute the significant work going on within the area plan for the new investment period, unfortunately the information could not be discussed as yet, but the committee will be updated on the timelines, I don't know whether we ever got back policies minimising scrutiny nightmare.
there was a question asked about network reinforcement, particularly with secret Road and the folks in sequence development, so what was being done there again the information would be sought and provided to the commission to a later date as far as I'm aware that information was never provided so I think it's fine for us to have these sessions but but unless we get the follow up on the data it feels a slightly kind of neutral exercise and just to reinforce what Councillor Jones was looking at the swim firework quickly that haven't been recommended Folkestone 2019 classification 3 Star excellent 2023 classification one star sufficiently at a steady decline.
and if it's it just feels in terms of us understanding.
what's happening with investment, what's happening to places where developments going on, we need a much better flow of information to ask them to our residents,
thank you, Councillor Chapman.
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 1:41:58
yeah, I represent, the titular Harbour was illnesses, one of the number on issues that people I represent.
are concerned about there's a lot of people that want to be able to use to see they want to swimming around they want to serve the around.
and they don't understand, and neither do I am on Sunday swimmers all year round myself and this winter is really difficult because every time it rains the Act would ping and say that that bit outflow.
and it wasn't safe to swim, and it's my understanding that that should only be happening.
in exceptional circumstances.
so I would like somebody to define for me
what constitutes exceptional circumstances,
he would like to pick that up.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:42:48
on my comment may be, Environment Agency give a view on that as well,
Microphone D - 1:42:54
so exceptional circumstances, arguably heavy rainfall, but also in this winter, a combination of groundwater conditions as well, effectively rainwater and groundwater filling up the assets, the overflows I think you are referring to there are unfortunately a pressure relief valves to prevent that system from backing up and flooding property internally with,
a duly mix of surgeon and rainwater groundwater so that that's that's what happens over the winter
it's unacceptable the legislation has now come in and that is gives us a regulatory output means that we can invest significant sums in reducing stillbirths inflows, we've talked about summer for techniques and ruins and KCC's alluded to some other things that we will be doing.
which are keeping surface water runoff from the sewer services, roads and roofs, typically both assets don't actually had a direct influence on, but that's how we want to tackle the problem clearly there will be needed to do great infrastructure works requiring the our preference is to keep the rain water out of the sewer and keep the rainwater where it falls and it's better for the environment metatarsal actually drinking water and keeping in the aquifer.
where we've got groundwater slightly different challenge, this is around, as we talked about the infrastructure letting water in both the public and private, nationally, 70% of the infrastructure by Lincoln is actually private, so we need to tackle that part of the infrastructure so that is us investing in customer types which we need permission to do so that's upper approach where everything success for an initial pilots we've actually sealed aligned all of the customer pipes as well as,
tackling the ones that we've got,
low lying areas so and also a loss of this infrastructure will be nature, Baxter a lot of the solutions to keep the rainwater out or to treat them around water where necessary.
of green written a sustainable drainage,
the wetlands, their rain gardens there swales by the side of the road which will add treatment capacity at Bodvarsson again carbon sinks occurring when you brought treatment of, so this infrastructure has got a great that's our plan we are going through the final stages of our determination of what to set that size at that Brown. Why don't we get to December? We should have that agreed and we will be starting that much larger programme from April, and a lot of that is working with the likes of highway authority to deliver. We're setting up quite a unique collaboration with KCC to deliver that in highway infrastructure, but will also be doing that with domestic properties and large groups. Anyone want a big roof will be somewhat. We come and talk to continue to come up with
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:45:36
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 1:45:39
to clarify, exceptional circumstances is heavy rainfall in the UK.
so let me let me come back, so I got into solution meant.
Microphone D - 1:45:48
so in the future the legislation will meet no more than 10 times a year.
what I'm seeking to find out, because the current legislation talks about exceptional circumstances, are you telling me you define exceptional circumstances up until this new legislation comes in as heavy rainfall so that, for the sexual circumstances are when that, so there must not the time at the moment a term it is set by what?
accepted by that site, so the site treatment works, for example, have a permitted float treatment when that is exceeded, its typically trips in 3 6 dry weather flows.
that site is allowed to use the overflow to release the volume to prevent flooding federation so those exceptional circumstances actually site-specific, defined by the conditions and a network that that sites connectivity.
but I've got several experts to my left at the moment clarify, from a regulatory point of view, that bad debt circumstances we were allowed to use that overflow.
could you put them on corporation?
press and we do check that these charges are compliant.
Microphone E - 1:47:00
and if these charges are made on an jogs, then we followed him for enforcement action.
OK, thank you, Councillor Chapman, I've got Councillor Hills and Councillor Martin, indicating diuretics connected, or you want to pick up in full.
Councillor health.
I won that battle, so I've got two questions and are concerned so that the first question went to listen to the
potential reasons for the poor water quality, it feels like the kind of thing that will gradually deteriorate overtime and something that would be reflected in gradually worsening.
results, and yet Littlestone beach was downgraded from good to poor in July,
Cllr Alan Martin - 1:47:51
2023 after 12, previous years of part of having good bathing water results. So I guess the question on a lot of our minds on the marshes was there some kind of catastrophic event that happened in July 20 223 that created a step-change Mau more generally need seems like so lots of work going on, but no one can quite put their finger on what it is. That's causing this one, and I think an open question for a lot of us on the on the marshes. Wherever the Environment Agency and Southern Water need to ask some wider government for
more scientific support funding, etc to to try and
get your heads around the the situation.
more generally, the the mention of cesspits on the Masters, worryingly, there are all kinds of fables about different peoples cesspits, and I know people who are quite proud of the fact that they lived in a house for 25 years and never had to empty it, which suggest to me empty is very effectively.
I, I know one person who had to empty their separate once a year up until the point under advice from a farmer, they put a dead sheep in internet, a cess pit and they've never had to empty since, so I I think you'll find that there's all kinds of very quirk in quite nasty things going on in in in the Marsh and I think if you're are rightly looking into,
some cesspits in more built-up areas, it might be worth looking more broadly.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:49:30
Microphone E - 1:49:31
I think I'm gonna let people come back on that if they want to go in terms of the Dead Sea yesterday, so the suspects are identified as the ones that nourish the beach. The indirect continuity with the bathing waters said no that that they are affecting. Yes, your point is really good because everyone had assessed it well, what it really support attempt through the hole in the bottom, as you said, and in areas of high groundwater, and there's no thanks Stuart Young, effective way as is usual easier completely sealed cess pit that's very expensive, very labour-intensive, nobody wants it, yeah, that's it, that's a very good point.
Councillor health. Thank you Chair, it is a very complicated subjects and all I can say is I was working last year with Southern Water going around the lifting manhole covers with a view to codes and see what's coming down the sewers and they found in the trees estate at St Mary's
Councillor Tony Hills - 1:50:35
Bay 3 missed collections and might be steered cheek reasons but the figures were summarised by this year are much much better and I'm really really hoping that we won't have a no bathing recommendation next year demon churches cataclysmic
I'm the district council are met, members Tim church, as well as certain Marshall, and that decimate businesses, I think everybody said we need more investment, more effort or time, anything that can be done, because this has got a really really hurt the community if it worst happens, I hope it doesn't I personally don't think the system, as I understand it, is fit for purpose and I'm not blaming the officers because they do a great job, but the system itself is only been going to understand it since 2 2020 coming back, 2019 is directed and as I've four year cycle one country one drops out
you know, it's not very reactive, if we get a good year, we should recognise that and be far more reactive, and we should do a lot more measurement. I still believe climate change is gonna affect in this musical, with rising sea temperatures over the course of the last couple of years ago, our season changing so rapidly. We need a lot more investment to this and I think the whole system needs revising. And if I get my hands and our MP, I will recommend that he does it
but unfortunately, yeah interact with it, but anyway.
it's complicate what can we say and its climate change.
thanks Councillor Hills, we did ask members of the public if they
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:52:14
wanted to submit any questions through through our asses Committee representatives this evening, so I did receive some questions, so I wanted to just have the opportunity to read those out as well as part of the meeting and then give our guests the chance to respond to the comments that we've had to just there and some of them are quite a quite specific so and they relate in parts of the community steering group that was referenced during the course of the meeting which it would be helpful just to understand how people could get involved with that as part of our response as well as they wanted to do that.
so there was one question in relation to the Community steering group that took place.
and why was the Environment Agency not in attendance at that group when a commitment had been given to attend in an earlier session earlier in the year there was a public meeting in April, I believe, not another question in relation to why was the new sewer put into the scene when there was no rain on the 4th and 5th of August?
it was lowered several feet on the first sunny weekend of the year and which impacted the timidity of the sea when tourists were starting to return to St Mary's Bay.
Will extra testing data that's been collated by the Environment Agency been provided?
to the community steering group and in general, and then a question in relation to his Range Road, which has continued to discharge in the bathing season, when will the upgrade to the sewers be completed and will that reduce storm overflow from range Road?
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:53:59
tighten up Rosie.
Microphone E - 1:54:05
basically, we are spending a lot of time going through the same group of people and telling them the same information we are exceedingly stretched resource so.
it's it seemed like a sensible decision, or the people in that group had already had what you would have told them so.
we COVID covers our resource actually to another investigation day.
you wanted to Know about ranged Road.
no historic discharges from Grange Road, I didn't see, or the short sea have impacted into interest St Mary's Bay or Littlestone.
what you bring, that you know we do, I think the question on the upgrade will have to take away from confirming the dates that, following completion of the new sewer, I think he's referring to the nuclear property.
yeah so.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:55:04
obviously, last winter was very winter Jason pump, which is on the southern end of the new sewer.
had some very significant breakdowns, Wilson lost roof, sorry, there was some maintenance works going on and the contractors clearly one side.
finish there were I tested the pump, I'm not sure how much water somewhat say, but it wouldn't have been run for more than a yeah few minutes simply because we would have had an environmental incident had we pump too much water will be amounts of silt and also the lowering of water levels when the water elsewhere so it's probably just about contesting.
what more I can say about that, I don't know, be very difficult to give an estimate of how much more to Walton's discharge.
the pump itself comments about four cubic metres per second, at full bore and with low water levels it wouldn't have been pumping Heaton Park.
and in terms of the testing data.
well, it's fair to say that David yeah thank think we share data on
Microphone E - 1:56:19
Springside high, which is accessible to everybody, historically, it's not been particularly successful sharing data with individuals and, and I would say no.
currently.
OK, that's clear, thank you could've could I just say something about the the sources, it's that there isn't a major source for any of this, but we haven't affected many, many miners sources and sorted them out.
so I think it's it's not Rooney correct to say that we don't know what the source of all we do know, but then many on their minor, and it's very time continue, so and anything you or or in any of the residents could do to help us with that would be much appreciated, OK thanks I mean, I think there is a theme around resources that you know clearly is coming through in the course of this evening. Yes,
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:57:14
I don't think it will.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:57:25
could you use Rosie's yeah?
they get.
Microphone E - 1:57:39
yes, I just wanted to make reference to. Obviously acknowledging the kind of community is concerns, so when Rosie kind of makes reference to two meetings, what we want to do is make sure that they're really productive, that they worked to build trust, which I think kind of reinforces the need for us to ensure that we are being driven by the data that science, that is helping us to understand what's happening. It's not helpful when the community here different messages from from different people, so we are really committed to making sure that we are engaging, but doing so in a really meaningful way that helps us move forward is incredibly complex is being acknowledged. We need to work through what has been successful because it has and keep kind of working through, and unfortunately I said the timing. It's not gonna be soon enough for people night. We absolutely totally understand that, but yeah, I'd say as they attempted to to Councillor Martin when we met recently, if we are on the same side, everyone in this room wants the same things, so for it, from our perspective, and I'm pretty sure I speak for everyone, you know if we can really make sure that we pulled together actually, I think, maybe plan the Council more, so I just wanted to ask to make that point. Thank you, and just in terms of clarifying what people wanted to get involved with the community steering group power people do that. John thanks,
yeah, so the Committee steering group was a commitment that we might, following some request from from local members of the community and
Microphone B - 1:59:04
some community groups campaign groups, local autumn uses. So while we set that group, our work and we will different partners is not something that we are saying, we are chairing and we are completely responsible for. We actually want it to be led wider community using that insight, so it, members of the Committee, want to get involved, yeah, something we'd absolutely so we would absolutely would like people to do, and under the first the first session that was set out
that was working with those local community and campaign groups asking which members of the public wanted to be involved, and that is how we come up with. The first one is shortlisted for that for that steering group, but we we'd absolutely recommend more people, Jordan, sorry 91, we can we can follow up and I can share more details how people can get involved in that and between 75 by using all of that local inside that they can then to see some more of an investigation so that really helped make a difference, and we know that Internal Drainage Board, an amendment of the councillors were involved in that, so it's a will collaborative steering group yeah, if you could confirm how people can
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:00:09
get involved, that the helpful and just to Councillors Butcher, which is point about following up on the points that have been made in the meeting, I'm sure they're being captured in the notes as releasing this evening and will make sure that those are followed up one after the meeting. I'm conscious at the time and I think we should draw this to an end. I think we have had in closing comments and from our colleagues at the Environment Agency and Southern Water. I just wanted to invite our internal drainage board colleagues, if there's anything further, you wanted to say at this point or our colleagues from Kent County Council,
no.
no, nothing further okay, I can see the council leader indicating that he'd like to come in at this point, so gym hope to which we are unsure
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 2:00:48
not only to very simple should be delighted to know Uchea is we will see the by remortgage quality in poach them deteriorating, I'm just interested to know which Beech infarction or return taken from.
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:01:06
that is a short answer, can somebody help Councillor Martin out?
I think that my concern.
OK.
Microphone E - 2:01:19
all right that the helpful thank you, alright colleagues, thank you for your questions and your comments this evening, thank you to our guess it's been a lengthy session for your contributions this evening,
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:01:31
I think, will take a five minute break now just to allow guests to leave before we take our other items thanks.

5 Flooding, poor water quality and Internal Drainage Board

Cllr Laura Davison - 2:01:46
after that short break and we're moving on to Item 6 levelling up fund update and we have a presentation on the Folkestone a brighter future Programme, Lorraine.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 2:02:02
thank you Chair, thank you, Members, I am going to take you through about 10 sides appreciate, we are running over.
the agenda I'll be going through, the first slide is a timeline of the programme in its entirety, from the place plan through to Folkestone, brighter future, then a specific update on where we are with programme itself. Then I'll talk a little bit about what public engagement, so some of the stats around the engagement and that has taken place and then share some of the programme risks that we have, but we have active litigation programmes and action plans with, and then I've been asked us to share a little bit about the pilot events and test events that we've been doing in the town centre, which compliments the Folkestone brighter future Programme folk about town
and then I'll open for questions. Thank you. So the first one, apologies for what is a very, very busy slide are not going to go through each item individually, but the intention to slide was to provide a visual representation of where we've come from and where we're going to so back to the inception of the place plan back in 2020 we then had the adoption of the place Graham in 2021. We then, at that point, that we adopted the place plan. There was approval for officers to work on the six priority projects to come up with a scheme that could then be put forward for a levelling up fund Round Two bid to what was D-lock now M, H CCG and then we had the great news for the district that we were successful in that bid in January 23 and the memo of understanding was signed with m HTC LG in May of that year. We, our main delivery partner for the programme, is Kent County Council and, where we are at the moment, so you can see on the top line some of the key milestones that we've had,
during the programme itself, so focused on a brighter future, but as we're heading through OK or share some of the update on where we are on some of those key milestones.
shortly.
so, following the last public engagement which was held in March, the team have been working on the detailed design, the detailed design we also have been, you said we did following.
all of the different engagements that we'd we did and the designs were then subsequently enhance to take on board what we were able to with regards to the actual programme delivery what we we have had, I'm saying way, KCC as our delivery partner, commissioned Alan Dudswell across consultants throughout the programme to ensure that we have a handle on the cost of the programme to deliver the programme to ensure that we are within budget and they've been critiquing the design to ensure that it ought to be deliverable and affordable we our design consultants were AQIM, some of you may have met members and representatives of icon during the public engagement.
they have most recently completed the Ross road safety audit for the design that has been identified, so where are we, with the programme, the main key step and actually the tender response was 5 pm yesterday, so I haven't got any results yet unfortunately from Kent County Council but I can advise we had two contractors who have responded to the tender so Casey seeing of said were compliant.
so they are now going through the detail of those tenders to enable us to have first sight of the schedule of works, that's quite critical to the programme to understand, were what are the main contractors recommend where the shovel should go first and what the sequence of that construction deliberately will be, we know that there are key stakeholders that we have to talk to as we're looking at that process.
one, for example, is a crazy Folkestone, we've got the try annual next year, in 2025, so it's gonna be keen that we have the opportunity to speak with them about the schedule of works is just one example of stakeholders that need to be engaged will also see from a contractors point of view, what they see as the delivery timescale, so we have September 25
is the agreed date that we have with
MH CSG. However, seeing the construction timeline from the tender response will make us understand whether that's challenged or not, we
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:07:24
will also understand the costs so again, coming back to affordability and and the costs were expecting contract award early November there's a six week period of evaluation and remediation by the KCC team now, so they'll be doing the scoring from the
the bids that have come in and attended responses that have come in and then they do the scoring, they then get to see the the prices, and then there's a six week negotiation stage, and then there will be the award, some of the key elements of the expectation of that contract.

6 LUF Update

we have requested that a public liaison officer is appointed as a specific role with the contractor who will be awarded so that person individual will be there to ensure that the public is provided with appropriate levels of information to understand what is going to be going on with the construction and also a point of contact.
for them to respond to any concerns queries that the members of the public have lost, we're going through the construction phase, we also have a generic e-mail address that we've had open since the beginning of Folkestone, a brighter future that will still be knives there will still be able to take take it internally within the Council as well worth stating the it is intended that the main compound will be based encourages way car park,
so that will enable the works to happen, that is the location recommend location for the main compound were very conscious because of where we currently are Highways normally invoked a two week embargo construction in Baga around Christmas we used they want to take into account the impact on local businesses and so that comes into the mix as well when we're when we're doing that negotiation around the schedule of works.
if we take into account the work that the
cost of indulgence have done, the project currently remains within scope from a financial perspective and now just want to take time just to recap, on how was the grant funding actually split out for the delivery of the programme, so we were awarded 19.8 million.
and we had to point 2 million match funding, the split of that, as you can see, so almost 60 million that is forecast as KCC's element of the budget to deliver this, so that includes all of the
detailed design, the design work, the project management work from their perspective and also includes the anticipated construction fee.
we have a small contingency for a programme of this size of 1.9 million contingency diseases and astronauts astronaut there are come on to that in a second, our forecasts for all posts 3.6 million that does include the remedial works to focus to which formed part of the original bid and we also had a running throughout the programme was the ask for creative partner because we are seen as a creative town and therefore,
creative partner since 20 Folkestone, we assign point 6 of the project specific to artistic influence and artistic interventions throughout the programme scope area the asterisk, which is against the KCC forecast, and the contingency is really with regards to budget pressures, so one of the biggest risks is ongoing budget pressures and they relate to,
etc. Utility costs, so we wouldn't necessarily understand the utility costs for diversion of some of the utilities what the team had been doing is proactive engagement with all of the utility companies to try and pre-empt that as much as possible and get some ideas of costing for that activity the tender response will also give us, as I mentioned, the actual cost of the programme itself.
if we look at the high level critical path of the programme apologies, this is quite small writing, but it's more for an indication of where we are.
in relation to the correct critical car, so we are at the contract tender submission stage you can see some of the planned dates some of the forecast states there is if we go through the next four main elements of the critical path we have scheduled works which is presented as part of the tender for public engagement, so it's always the intention to have a fourth public engagement that will share with the public this is the design that will be delivered and the opportunity to liaise with the public liaison officer from the main contractor.
expectations contract start towards the end of this year.
we are again, we're waiting on that being finalised as part of the negotiation and the validation stage now and expected contract Surrey construction clinician is September 25, so that's the Diana, but we've been having with them HTC LG about our projected completion rates again, pretended response will tell us whether these,
assumed but informed timelines can be met.
colleges and ongoing had passed pace.
the next three sides relate to public engagement, so this is specific to the public engagement that we did for focused in a brighter future, not public engagement that was done for the place plan when the six priority projects were first identified, so we've held three public engagements July 23 November 23 in March 24.
July 23 was a very classic engagement, so with engagement boards, design boards and then, as we moved into the second and the third engagement, we saw the introduction of the virtual reality software and the digital twin.
which enabled us to reach far more individuals.
but also a different breadth of demographic than what we would typically engaged with for this type of
consultation, you can see some of the stats there, so we had just under 1,000 people in total, engaged over those three engagements, of which I am really pleased to say, 200 of them students, so they were, you can see some of the pictures there so they were involved within the the be our understanding, the digital twin, given their input to the design, what they liked about the proposed interventions, what they would like to see differently, as well, as well as the normal
open day events that we had in and around the town centre, so we changed the date, so typically we have the midweek.
feedback we have from the public from the first engagement was it doesn't really cater for people that are at work, doesn't cater for people the unable to get there in the evening, so the last two engagements we actually did over a weekend as well and included a Saturday as part of that engagement we had in excess of 450 surveys completed, asking specific specific questions again about what people like about the
design interventions, what would they like to see modified and that helped us inform some of the you said we did, the virtual reality, enabled us to have available on YouTube the carpet bride if anyone had the opportunity to experience it, so this is the carpet ride of seeing the as is to the to be kind of,
Mercy itself in that home design going through and there's been in excess of 7,000 views of that video since it was loaded up onto the system, so they will the corporate website as well, just a few indications of how we promoted the engagement days.
and the engagement opportunities we had digital who did press releases, we also have the focus screen in the town centre as well.
we took the opportunity to do specific leaflet drops to residents, specifically within the scope area, they were hand delivered and we also when it came to the second and the third event, we will work closely with the stage coach to say, how can we get the message out as much as we can to the users of the bus station so the first to the location of the public events were right next to the bus station and we had members of the project team inviting people in as much as we could.
and the third one was held in the Town Hall, which was also seen as quite successful, so some of the you said we did from those surveys, those 466 surveys that were completed there was originally due to be a roundabout near through café,
members of the public said why you do, we will spend the money elsewhere, so we remove the roundabout one of the key things when we were sharing the potential to introduce a footbridge to reconnect Guildhall Street North would be able to Street.
was seen as something that that was received incredibly positively, so that was absolutely.
captured within the detailed design, there's been additional controlled crossings put in when members of the public have said Haiti design line, he is the desire line, people won't walk to that point that you're suggesting there ought to be a crossing. This is where people will always go, so an example with outside of the motorbike shop on Middle Park Square going across to
the shopping precinct.
I find it a place that it's just you know, it's a problem waiting to happen there, there will be a controlled crossing at that point as an example.
retention of mature trees, so again, some of the original designs would have meant the removal of some mature trees clearly wanted to avoid that as much as possible and we've been able to retain through some changing the design, some of the mature trees that we've seen at the
south-eastern point of Middlebrook Square, so near the bus station, the big mature trees as, as you will cross the road and similarly in in Shannon strengths, so so they've been maintained and the London plane tree down Guildhall Street as well.
some of the feedback from some of the box.
uses walls.
I I remember having a conversation on more than one occasion where it was today. I can get three or four buses when I go to the bus station and I can stand there and I can see which one comes first and I can just jump on it if you're doing a linear style, I don't know which one bus is gonna come first and which bus stop. I ought to stand at so one of the things that we've been able to introduce is a digital timetable that will be located near the bus stops. We just just confirming exactly the location that it would be a stage which have already confirmed they can provide the data and KCC as part of their I'm going to use the long acronym DCYP. Introduction are will be putting in a digital timetable. In addition to that will be having our tea. I information, so we will like me that's the kind of anything information on the bus stops and themselves as to how long the buses are going to be for those respective bus shelters, we also changed how the bus shelters will be presented, so they'll actually be inward facing rather than outward facing. That was to help with the concerns around whether and it being quite open to the to the traffic coming passed on Middlewich Square or with the introduction of the six new bus stops that we see around midwest, where the introduction of 20 miles per hour were seen as key and kind of slow down the traffic. If we're, if we're making it more
we were pedestrian and eyes type crossings, be them controlled or not controlled, I think that we had was, it was important that we then slow down the traffic and the scheme will be introducing a 20 miles per hour element already mentioned about the fourth event, final of which is still to be,
absolutely finalised in the date, but it will be we anticipate towards the end of this year, so again the reason I can't give anybody a day is it's very tied into the output that we're getting from the tender response from the potential contractors.
there quickly share some of the programme risks that we report back quarterly to them, HC all G, cost increase or overrun so classic in any programme delivery.
the fact that the delivery timescales may come out further than when the funding is being made available so again, were we have action plans to mitigate that unforeseen site issues, one of the biggest things KCC, say to us until you actually get a shovelling the ground, we don't know what's underneath as you can do as much mitigation is is you can looking at existing plans, drawings and everything else.
but their experience tells them that invariably do find something you weren't expecting, I've already mentioned about utility diversion costs, there's been a lot of proactive engagement on on that.
and one of the recent risks that we have just started to share is the potential impact of the entry exit system at Dover, so there is a concern within the project team the if you know KCC Highways, if there is a an issue with backlog of traffic they may stop any construction 20 Highways to alleviate some of the backlog and traffic issues that you might see in and around Dover so were reporting that back as part of the programme
as well, and now going to move on to folk about town Suffolk about town is an initiative is not actually part of the Folkestone, the brighter future 20 million pounds funding, so this is enabled through an additional pot of money we will give them by them. HC, all G last year to help it was group capability and capacity planning.
funding that we could use as we saw fit to support programme, so one of the things was we can make a great place aesthetically from a highways and a public realm perspective, but what's important is create a reason for people to come to Folkestone town centre we know that people are coming to Folkestone but we want to ensure that we get them into the town centre so we commission third party consultants the means at Folkestone Fringe,
you are collaboratively developing a target operating model, but part of the to inform that target operating model was the development of a series of test and pilot events for the town center. These are specifically focused within Guildhall Street and Sandgate Road, so in the pedestrianised area, whole raft of different types of initiatives for different types of audiences at different types of J and we've also had won most recently, where we invited an external operator to come in and deliver a continental market, and then the intention is from all of these. They will then be an evaluation of what went well, what didn't go so well to help inform the ultimate town centre operating model. So again, just a quick talk about how do we know how will we marketing? All of these are events that are happening within the town centre. The last one is, I'm going to plug, the last one is the 5th of October, and that's an enhanced market programme. Unfortunately, the first enhanced market programme was hampered by the weather on the 24th of August, so there is a call out for potential traders to join to just try different things. This is in support of the casual market today to see how we can amplify that casual market there is currently within the town centre. So with regards to promotion, again we did a residential flying drop, fly a drop
around 9,400 door-to-door delivered, we had focused in folklore and a half page in Folkestone foghorn.
we're very fortunate the press releases that we've been sending out. The BBC are picked up on every single events so far, so I'm hoping they'll do that, as well as the 5th of October. 1 social media typical throughout F H extraordinary and also through flexed infringe. You've also been insane magazine, the Town Council newsletter, and also visit, can put it on their website as well, so I can't share any specific output data because we're going through the whole exercise to actually be able to present, with some factual data that some high level anecdotes one of the things that we're doing. Some of the local businesses have agreed to give us indications of their takings on the days of events, so whether their takings are up or whether they're takings are down. We have had some encouraging feedback so far about New Year, 10% increase from some of them. We also for the Food Festival we had a number of there was a food trail which a number of food and beverage businesses had a dish, for example, that you were inviting people, consumers to come in and go round those different businesses. One local business said they were round the whole weekend and a lot of them were coming in and asking for. Can we have the dish that was part of the of the food festival? It was very small, it was the first one, the whole intention of what these
serious events are trying to do is motivate.
potential operators to bring these forwards in years, two three four and five footfall data which we are looking at does suggest an increase in footfall again, more factual data will be available once we've done the evaluation I mentioned about the bad weather affecting the first.
market
but we've had, I think it's doing what we needed to do to give us some learnings from each of the event of what worked well, what doesn't work quite so well
what what do we need to do within the environment, so be that engaging with local businesses and or with residents to get them in formal dwell time, and also what do we need to do as a Council with regards to processes to enable potential users of the town centre to be able to use this more efficiently in the future? Thank you very much for questions, thank you very much OK, I've now colleagues, Councillor
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:28:44
Congreve, I can see you're indicating, firstly just
I just remind the main one for me, obviously of at the March.
Cllr Connor McConville - 2:28:51
again, you know, everyone seemed to be quite from so that you know the tendering process with no or on track or longer already degraded ago. You know that June July, sort of time so yeah, I don't know if there's any, because it is just a brief sort of few words in, I understand the understanding the cost questions that I mean was that largely led by KCC in terms of what they had to or officer. Has it sort of, was the delay largely us? Was it sort of 50 50 between between them
it's just because everyone, the fact that everyone's seen, so almost certain that it was on track, is just a bit what were what happened
thank you and I think is very relevant question, so one of the the the
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 2:29:44
reason was to de-risk the programme, so the recommendation from Kent County Council, because in the in the tender there was a an element of premium within their
and that the contractor would have been able to just put a set amount against, we took the decision as a programme team to provide more detail to the potential contractors that would reduce the risk of future requests for claims or request for contract extensions, because they can drop me that it it wasn't clear with the level of detail that was within a pretender, so that was the reason why,
there was an element of deny, which was to provide more detail to reduce the risk of an overspend on the delivery of the project.
and again, just quickly are in there are just looking at the figures.
Cllr Connor McConville - 2:30:50
however, continued to you obviously does were quite low, but obviously if there is any continued, she left the minutes of the as their things, if there are things in the guidance, does he go back to what Central government does it stay here, what happens if there is anything left?
I suspect there will be no contingency of.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 2:31:10
so obviously we need to go through the exercise we're going through now to understand what that there are some elements that one in the original project scope, we would have to go back to develop to some degree, so, for example, the frustration building and them and how that might be brought forward that could be used for any capacity that's left which is some of the current season.
OK, thanks to Councillor Martin.
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:31:45
thank you you, a lot of these big developments are enquire archaeological digs, I just wondered if there was any requirement in
Cllr Elaine Martin - 2:31:53
this without an issue or worse, if there had been delays to the programme for you.
thank you that there has been a request, I think we were expecting the
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 2:32:04
programme team that there might be some ask for something down Guildhall Street, but actually it's not Guildhall Street, it's it's Sheldon Street, which is where the archaeological teams are keen to be cancelled, I haven't got all the information Chair but I'm quite happy to come back with some more info on what the focus areas are and what what that means to the programmes of where they will be included within the programme, yet probably helpful. Thank you.
Councillor Alan Martin and Councillor Berkshire,
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:32:35
thanks Chair, so I'll get some building on.
Cllr Alan Martin - 2:32:39
Councillor Michael Groves quite really, but but looking forward, so delays happened and I am looking at that critical path slide, and there's a lot going on between now and next September so concluding the tender schedule of works for public engagement and then the actual construction. So I couldn't get your sense as to how confident you are in the in the forecast rates that you've got in here and what the main things that concerning, and if I can just chuck another one in there you knew there was a bullet point there. That said something along the lines of
hoping that the timelines are within the funding timeline, and maybe you can just remind us what the funding timeline is, so we can compare it was the critical car.
sure so.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 2:33:32
let me trying to be the first one.
sorry, can you remind me first question yeah, how confident are you in the current data that we've got in the in the critical path and what the
main things that concerned me that I might not, because of course got it, so I think we were is competent, as we can be with the information that we have to hand, so we've, for example, with the introduction abandoned as well. The cost consultants gives us some level of confidence with regards to the cost as much as we can until we've actually got it back from the contractor, we've got KCC major capital project team who are responsible for large programme delivery, so we have their expertise on on the team as well. We also have a calm the design consultants who were putting together with either call in a level plan that kind of says this. These are the sequence of events that you need to go through and that was in quite a level of detail.
there'd be include all of the drawings and so on and so forth, and what they would expect a programme of this size to take, but the reality is we are as confident as we can be until we see the detail that's come back in in the tender.
you and I don't know if there's anything else you want to add to that, I think that's that's that's, probably until we actually get the fit, you know we get to see the physical output from that tender, we try to mitigate as much as possible and we are as confident as we can be until we get that detail.
do you want to add, I think the only thing I would add is that while we have them as assembler re strong project to take this forward, I think there's marine explained.
we've front-loaded, along with the work to the risk of the project. So at this stage we're at, whereas confidence we can be. The next step is analysing the tenders to see her own budget and school, so that's a real next to the top step from you forward some, but certainly am, I guess, who was helping well lead director on the project. I'm very comfortable with the level of expertise it's called, who are keen for BCC is predicting and the consultant is helping us. And just in terms of your second question about the funding and the timeline, yet if they don't align, is that Bennett negotiation, so so the opportunity that we have is is the sequence by which we spend the money, so we would spend the government money first and then spend our match funding at the end, so
but does be the some opportunities, and for the time that we are time-bound for spending the grant money,
and what is the worst to date with the discipline it was, it's a, it's published his March 25, however, every.
Round 2 Audi was invited to view an honest appraisal back in September of last year as to where they felt it was going to full.
the reality is, it was six months until we got the signed memo of understanding from what was D-lock now I make see all G, so we effectively said you, gotta, take that timeline and you go to shift it by those six months because until we had signed them or knew and effectively are programmed to run with we couldn't stop.
so we just shifted at the six months.
Kent Councillor button thanks Chair question-mark buses or raised
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:37:14
previously about the quantity, not just the design for the quantity of bus shelter provision, wanting to be reassured that would be insane
Cllr James Butcher - 2:37:21
amount for each route and our consumer minor thing, but it's not if you're a buses in which the manager has been so say with a number 16 you can get 25 people caring for about the last thing we want is people having to queue anyway, as Holland's first graph miracle certain,
thank you, so one of the things we've done, only you said we did, is
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 2:37:42
we have said the route 16 needs a double bus shelter.
there to accommodate this, we have been told that by number policies is that actually the number 16 at certain times of the day is, is there's lots of people there, so we are asking the bus shelter provider that's currently out to tender with?
all our Council at the moment, that the requirement is to have a double bus shelter for that.
route.
with regard to where the bus stops were for certain routes, we had to take guidance from stage coach on that we're not, the subject matter is matter, experts on that, so they told us how many they needed.
and where the bus stops ought to being in relation to the six they said they needed
sorry that a question in relation to that that one if that is OK, Councillor Robert check can have.
Cllr James Butcher - 2:38:42
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:38:42
Cllr Connor McConville - 2:38:45
yeah, I mean just to sorry I mean the the 6th of the plan is is gonna be largely more especially and another double good, because you know since the
since the incident that occurred within the bus station.
the job at the Dover bus now leaves from the National expression up, which is a very small, and you know it's not fit, especially when it's raining, so I mean that that stop will have it and will have a much better shelter more fit for purpose moving forward which you know I'm sure a lot of lessons from preschool.
and second question was about Guildhall Street and the layout of the
Cllr James Butcher - 2:39:20
street furniture, and what sort of engagement there's been with shopkeepers about what that's gonna look like, because there's quite detailed new when you talk to people quite detailed things that make a difference to the more where bins are placed or client is all those kind of things make a really significant different segments to check what consultation was ongoing about one?
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 2:39:45
so businesses were invited to come to the three engagements specifically as well.
we haven't gone out every single individual business and ask them for their input, it formed part of the main engagement process.
is still signed for people to make their views known and shopkeepers about, or is that finalised now about that design?
Cllr James Butcher - 2:40:10
the design has had to be finalised to enable us to go out to the contractors as part of the tender.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 2:40:18
just in terms of to finalise design and the feedback from the March event, where can people see that information so that they can have a couple, thank you, Chair, that is available on the corporate website so that I can provide links to that and but all of the output from all of the engagement events are available on our corporate website on the Folkestone, the brighter future webpage and that that's actually includes the updated designs does it?
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:40:49
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 2:40:53
I believe it does, but I will double check that that'd be that'd be good, I think they'd have a brief look and I could there is it one page where I could see I think it's the timeline it had yet been updated so but I hadn't haven't had the chance to look at all of the pages the reason I think it might not be the absolute latest design is because the team have been doing in order to send out being.
tender, so it's whether we got the consultation board updates to enable those to go onto the corporate website, which is typically what we make available.
as Mark, I think as much as can be, you know, even if it's for, were
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:41:34
words in terms of the what people said and what has happened since would be would be helpful just for people to have an understanding,
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 2:41:42
because a lot of people participated and put their views in obviously not everybody in terms of what was expressed.
it is being taken forward in the design and so yeah, I think that would be useful, they're absolutely use the output from the you said we did is all of April on the corporate website
but I will validate whether there are the latest drawings and designs of what will be delivered and just in terms of the bus information that you talked about, you did just to confirm he did say that there will be real time, bus information, regret on the bus stops correct and that will be installed by a company called Wicks and KCC your funding that,
so it's not coming out of the ground, section KCC, the upfront cost great points, Councillor Chapman.
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:42:29
I just for clarification, really on the figures, there was 0.6 to
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 2:42:35
Cratchit focus and just to clarify that 600,000, and how can I find out what what we're getting for that money?
so it is point 6 that was putting the bid and we have a signed as part
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 2:42:50
of the budget, point 1 of that was to earn a point, a creative partner.
and on the contracts Register there will be is just under 79,000 creative Folkestone,
to act as the curator for getting artists into to deliver, the expectation is at the next public consultation will be able to share more about the detail of what will be the deliberate, but there will be schemes to assisting wayfinding into the town centre, they are responsible for the delivery of the play area in Bouverie Square to the entire play area will be designed by an artist curated by creative Folkestone.
so I don't want to the smell, but I'd like to know where I can rather
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 2:43:44
than you Mr our, is it available somewhere and I'm really sorry if this is a stupid question but so absolutely clarify, 0.6 is 600,000
correct thank you and creative folks will hold Bratton kind of work
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 2:43:58
with partners to allocate their money, is that right now we've got, we retain the money, okay, thank you.
Will that can, I think, be circulated, so I can see that kind of list
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 2:44:11
of where those what schemes are coming in this part flat upgrade absolute links, it is still work in progress so they are still working
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 2:44:20
with Ottis because it it's it will form part of the triangle as well, so they're taking into account what's being delivered as part of the 25 trying anyway,
so as soon as it's available are ensure that it's made available on our corporate website short, just be, you know, anything we've got yeah, as the Overview and Scrutiny Committee would be just nice to see what where we are up to ensure that our political,
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:44:46
OK great, so no other comments, then thank you very much for the presentation and the update and be helpful to keep the Committee updated as things move forward, thank you OK, we've got one item left on the agenda, thank you, Councillor McConville.
which is the creation of a task and finish group to support delivery of otaku Park.

7 Creation Of A Task And Finish Group To Support Delivery Of Otterpool Park

and we've got a number of recommendations in front of us, which I'll just go through, if there are any comments on the report, then obviously I'll take them, but we need to receive and note the report to appoint five Members to the task and finish group drawn from our Committee which should be politically balanced as per section 4 of the report and as I understand it, the members of the Committee will be myself, Councillor Chapman, Councillor Butcher, Councillor Martin and Councillor wall, that's correct, I think in my understanding yes I'm seeing notes to appoint a Chair for the task and finish group drawn from the group.
which I would Chair as the Chair of the Committee and Jonathan, and I have discussed that if, if that's possible, then then John will be on the group as well as the Vice Chair, and to note the draft terms of reference for agreement at the first meeting of the Task and finish Group, so we're noting the terms of reference this evening and then they'll be agreed at the first meeting of the group which we don't have a date for at the at the present time so that's the task before us, so I'll just pause to ask if there's any comments or questions on the report itself.
Councillor Martin yeah, just very brief, won't do we have any sense
Cllr Alan Martin - 2:46:28
for what the timelines would would be, because I am guessing this fits in with the overall tone lines that you have choosing joint venture partners in that and that kind of things I just put together an update on that point.
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:46:44
Ian, do you want to come in yeah, thank you, I think we'd see the
Mr Ewan Green - 2:46:47
first meeting of the group being fairly creating October and then probably working for the next six to nine months.
as we go through courses,
so I think recently no, we got to this stage, we think, are appropriate, the group needs because of the lough information via appropriate to consider and advise on windfall.
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:47:11
thank you, Yes, this arises out of our own discussion getting on for a year ago, where we we are recommended to Cabinet that this is, this was a Group we wanted to set up, which was then agreed, so this is the formal constitution of that group, are there any other comments or questions?
OK in that case, I'll put those recommendations that I've read out to the meeting.
is everybody in agreement with those sorry, Councillor Martin terribly sorry so?
Cllr Alan Martin - 2:47:42
so this task and finish group will go on beyond when we start the committee system, where, which pointedly overview and scrutiny.
committee disappeared, so I assume is just carries on some questions that that's my understanding yeah OK, thank you, OK, thanks alright,
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:48:03
I'll put those recommendations all in agreement just show yet once-great OK, thank you very much I would be That's agreed and that concludes our meeting for this evening, thank you to our officers.
along with non-white thanks everyone