Council - Wednesday 2 October 2024, 7:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Council
Wednesday, 2nd October 2024 at 7:00pm 

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  1. Cllr Anita Jones
  2. Public Speaker
  3. Cllr Anita Jones
  4. Susan Priest
  5. Cllr Anita Jones
  6. Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee
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  1. Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee
  2. Cllr Laura Davison
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  5. Cllr Belinda Walker
  6. Cllr Anita Jones
  7. Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee
  8. Cllr Anita Jones
  9. Cllr David Godfrey
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  11. Cllr David Godfrey
  12. Cllr Adrian Lockwood
  13. Cllr Anita Jones
  14. Cllr David Godfrey
  15. Cllr Anita Jones
  16. Cllr Tony Cooper
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  1. Cllr Adrian Lockwood
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  1. Public Speaker
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  3. Cllr Anita Jones
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  6. Cllr Jim Martin
  7. Cllr Anita Jones
  8. Public Speaker
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  11. Cllr Anita Jones
  12. Public Speaker
  13. Cllr Jim Martin
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  16. Cllr Anita Jones
  17. Cllr Tim Prater
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  9. Cllr David Godfrey
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  11. Cllr David Godfrey
  12. Cllr Jim Martin
  13. Cllr Anita Jones
  14. Cllr David Godfrey
  15. Cllr Anita Jones
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  17. Cllr Anita Jones
  18. Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee
  19. Cllr Anita Jones
  20. Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee
  21. Cllr Tim Prater
  22. Cllr Jim Martin
  23. Cllr Anita Jones
  24. Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee
  25. Cllr Anita Jones
  26. Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee
  27. Cllr Jim Martin
  28. Cllr Anita Jones
  29. Cllr Clive Goddard
  30. Cllr Anita Jones
  31. Cllr Jim Martin
  32. Cllr Anita Jones
  33. Cllr Clive Goddard
  34. Cllr Anita Jones
  35. Cllr Alan Martin
  36. Cllr Anita Jones
  37. Cllr Jim Martin
  38. Cllr Anita Jones
  39. Cllr Alan Martin
  40. Cllr Anita Jones
  41. Cllr Alan Martin
  42. Cllr Jim Martin
  43. Cllr Anita Jones
  44. Cllr Tony Hills
  45. Cllr Anita Jones
  46. Cllr Tony Hills
  47. Cllr Stephen Scoffham
  48. Cllr Anita Jones
  49. Cllr Tony Hills
  50. Cllr Anita Jones
  51. Cllr Tony Hills
  52. Cllr Stephen Scoffham
  53. Cllr Anita Jones
  54. Cllr Paul Thomas
  55. Cllr Anita Jones
  56. Cllr Jim Martin
  57. Cllr Anita Jones
  58. Cllr Paul Thomas
  59. Cllr Anita Jones
  60. Cllr Jim Martin
  61. Cllr Anita Jones
  62. Cllr Tony Cooper
  63. Cllr Anita Jones
  64. Cllr Jim Martin
  65. Cllr Anita Jones
  66. Cllr Tony Cooper
  67. Cllr Anita Jones
  68. Cllr Tony Cooper
  69. Cllr Anita Jones
  70. Cllr Jim Martin
  71. Cllr Anita Jones
  72. Cllr Tony Cooper
  73. Cllr Anita Jones
  74. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  75. Cllr Anita Jones
  76. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  77. Cllr Anita Jones
  78. Cllr David Wimble
  79. Cllr Anita Jones
  80. Cllr David Wimble
  81. Cllr Jim Martin
  82. Cllr Anita Jones
  83. Cllr David Wimble
  84. Cllr Anita Jones
  85. Cllr Jim Martin
  86. Cllr Anita Jones
  87. Cllr David Wimble
  88. Cllr Anita Jones
  89. Cllr David Wimble
  90. Cllr Anita Jones
  91. Cllr David Wimble
  92. Cllr Anita Jones
  93. Cllr Jim Martin
  94. Cllr Anita Jones
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  1. Cllr Jim Martin
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  3. Cllr Adrian Lockwood
  4. Cllr Anita Jones
  5. Cllr Adrian Lockwood
  6. Susan Priest
  7. Cllr Anita Jones
  8. Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee
  9. Cllr Anita Jones
  10. Cllr Jim Martin
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  13. Cllr Anita Jones
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  1. Cllr Jim Martin
  2. Cllr Adrian Lockwood
  3. Cllr Anita Jones
  4. Cllr Belinda Walker
  5. Cllr Laura Davison
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  1. Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee
  2. Cllr Anita Jones
  3. Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee
  4. Cllr Anita Jones
  5. Cllr Nicola Keen
  6. Cllr Anita Jones
  7. Cllr Gary Fuller
  8. Cllr Anita Jones
  9. Cllr David Wimble
  10. Cllr Anita Jones
  11. Cllr Adrian Lockwood
  12. Cllr Anita Jones
  13. Cllr Tony Cooper
  14. Cllr Anita Jones
  15. Cllr Tony Cooper
  16. Cllr Alan Martin
  17. Cllr Anita Jones
  18. Cllr Alan Martin
  19. Cllr David Godfrey
  20. Cllr Anita Jones
  21. Cllr Rich Holgate
  22. Cllr Anita Jones
  23. Cllr Gary Fuller
  24. Cllr Anita Jones
  25. Cllr Paul Thomas
  26. Cllr Anita Jones
  27. Cllr Tony Hills
  28. Cllr Anita Jones
  29. Cllr James Butcher
  30. Cllr Anita Jones
  31. Cllr Clive Goddard
  32. Cllr Anita Jones
  33. Cllr Laura Davison
  34. Cllr Anita Jones
  35. Cllr Mike Blakemore
  36. Cllr Anita Jones
  37. Cllr Belinda Walker
  38. Cllr Anita Jones
  39. Cllr Jim Martin
  40. Cllr Anita Jones
  41. Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee
  42. Cllr Anita Jones
  43. Susan Priest
  44. Cllr Anita Jones
  45. Cllr Anita Jones
  46. Cllr Tim Prater
  47. Cllr Anita Jones
  48. Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee
  49. Cllr Anita Jones
  50. Cllr Anita Jones
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  5. Webcast Finished

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:00:00
and please remain standing for the prayers from my Chaplain Reverend Michael Dawkins.
Good evening everyone. If you would like to pray, I invite you to join in with these prayers.
Public Speaker - 0:00:17
Almighty God, tonight we gather in peace and fellowship with the goal of working together
for the flourishing of all people in this district. However, we know that there are
many places where peace is merely a hope. We thank you Lord that the people of
this district do not live with war and violence and we pray for those places in
the world where war is part of the daily life. In particular we pray for peace for
the peoples of Israel, Lebanon, Gaza, Iran, Ukraine, Russia, Sudan, Myanmar and so
many more. Amen. Thank you for the beauty of those communities and places we
represent, the beauty of the landscapes and the communities themselves. Tonight
we would ask that you would bless the peoples and places of the wards. Broadmead,
Cheriton, the Folkstone wards, the Hive wards, New Romney and the Romney Marsh,
the Downs, Sandgate, Welland and Denge and may they always be places of beauty,
fellowship and peace. Amen. In this season of change and of new
beginnings and ongoing journeys we hold before you the many schools within our
district. Among them are hosts the Marsh Academy. May our schools always be places
welcoming, friendship and study. May they be places where children are encouraged
and enabled to question and explore, where teachers and staff may be
satisfied in their work and where parents know that those for whom they
care are being nurtured within the community. Comfort all who will struggle
this academic season with pressures and help them to find a good balance of work
and enjoying times of rest and relaxation. Amen. And we hold up all of
those situations, places and peoples who will be discussed tonight. Give us wisdom,
insight and loving hearts tonight and always. Amen.
Thank you. Everybody please take a seat.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:02:43
Good evening and welcome to the meeting of full Council.
This meeting will be webcast live to the internet.
For those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed, you will need to leave the theatre.
For member officers and others speaking at the meeting, it is important that the microphones
are used so viewers on the webcast and others in the room may hear you.
Would anyone with a mobile phone please switch it to silent mode as they can be distracting.
I would like to remind members that although we all have strong opinions on matters under
consideration it is important to treat members, officers and public speakers with respect.
Please note I appreciate that some members might not be able to stand when addressing
the meeting and therefore I will of course permit those members to speak without the
need to stand at the meetings of full council.
So moving on to the first item on the agenda, apologies for absence. Thank you
Susan Priest - 0:03:40
chair and good evening councillors, colleagues, members of the public and

1 Apologies for Absence

guests. We have apologies this evening from councillors Chapman, Meade, McShane,
Shube and Speakman and councillor McConville may arrive late but if not
because of travel difficulties and then he sends his apologies this evening
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:04:05
thank you thank you and moving on to item two do we have any declarations of
interest

2 Declarations of Interest

Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:04:13
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:04:15
Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:04:18
Councillor Davidson getting to grips with the microphones is that working yes
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:04:24
I'd like to declare membership of Save Folkstone Sports Centre unincorporated
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:04:33
Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:04:35
group. And Councillor Walker. Same as Councillor Davison membership of the
Cllr Belinda Walker - 0:04:37
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:04:40
group. And I think Councillor, this is Jenny Hollingsby. Yes thank you Chairman.
Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:04:43
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:04:47
As a pensioner on item number 11. Thank you. There was another hand up there.
Councillor Hills. Thank You chairman yes anything to do with Kent
Cllr David Godfrey - 0:04:52
County Council.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:04:55
Can I just remind everybody that I'm the chair not the chair man. Thank you.
Cllr David Godfrey - 0:05:02
Sorry, where were we? Councillor Lockwood. Thank you chair also a member of Save
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 0:05:08
Folkestone Sports Centre. Thank you and Councillor Godfrey. The same
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:05:10
as
Cllr David Godfrey - 0:05:12
Councillor Hollingsby being a pensioner. Thank you. And Councillor Cooper?
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:05:16
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:05:20
Chair of the Saved Folds and Sports Centre and a member of it as well. Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:05:23
Are there any further declarations of interest? No, thank you. Okay so moving on

3 Minutes

to item three, the minutes of the last meeting. I need to sign those. I assume
was there any questions before I sign those? Councillor Lockwood. Thank you
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 0:05:47
chair I declared an interest as a director of opportunity but it doesn't
appear in the minutes.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:05:56
Okay that correction will be made. Are there any other queries or are we happy?
we all agreed that I can sign the minutes.
So we're going to move on to chairs communications. So firstly it's brilliant

4 Chair's Communications

to be here so thank you to the Marsh Academy for letting us hold our council
meeting here this evening. I am delighted that our council have come on tour to the
Romney Marsh. This is a really special part of our district with the unique landscapes.
I read recently that the Ingoldsby legends recognise the importance of Romney Marsh as
a fifth continent, saying the world according to the best geographers is divided into Europe,
Asia, Africa, America and Romney Marsh. We're very lucky. Since our last full council meeting
I've supported a number of events across the district and also outside of the
district including the New Romney Country Fair, the Hive Venetian Fate and
Battle of Britain Memorial events. Last weekend I was delighted to join the
Folkestone Division guides at their campsite near Canterbury. I attended
Brownies and Guides when I was a child in Folkestone and Hive and it's fantastic to
see that it's still thriving. The volunteers who run the groups provide
some amazing opportunities for the girls that attend. Last week I was pleased to
welcome young people from Brock Hill School, the Marsh Academy and Folkestone
College into the council chamber to discuss the corporate plan. I was
assisted by councillors Jim Martin, Stephen Scoffam and Mike Blapemore and a
team of officers including Joe Gage. The students and teachers discussed their
thoughts on the district and presented their ideas to us. We were very impressed
with the insights they provided and the mature way they spoke in the chamber.
They said at the end that they are very keen for us to move towards having a
youth council in the district and I will continue to work with our officers to
find a way forward to provide this voice for young people. The district civic
service in St. Leonard's Church on Sunday was a successful event. I had
organized choirs from St. Leonard's in Hyth, St. Martins in Cheriton, Liming,
Elam and Saltwood sing together. We also had the chair of the trustees from the
Rainbow Center speak about the work that they do. He gave us some very eye -opening
statistics about homelessness and food poverty in our district. I'm so grateful
that we have charities like this in our district to support those in need and we
raise money at the service for their work. Thank you to everyone who's bought
a tin of food this evening to show our ongoing support as a council. To continue
our support for the Rainbow Center I'm in the process of organizing a council a
Sleepout in the Quad at the Civic Centre, subject of C2A risk assessment. The leader
and the deputy leader are keen to take part in this fundraising event and I will let everyone
know when we have a date and I challenge you all to join us. It won't be a comfortable
night but it will give us greater understanding of the difficulties that people are facing
in this cost of living crisis. I was notified the other day that the tree whips I've ordered
from the Woodlands Trust will arrive in the first two weeks of November. I've
started liaising with some councillors in different parts of the district to
find locations to plant them. Tree whips are very small and if planted in winter
need very little maintenance after they've been planted. If you
would like to help me in my mission to plant trees in every part of the
district please get in touch. Thank you. So moving on to item 5, petitions and I
stand there are no petitions. So we'll move on to item six which is public

5 Petitions

6 Questions from the Public

questions and we have two questions from members of the public. So I would like to
ask this is yes from Councillor Dougie Young to Councillor Jim Martin leader of
the council and cabinet member for Otterpool Park and planning policy so
Councillor Young thank you.
Public Speaker - 0:10:18
Good evening, district Councillors, members of the public, guests. It gives me no pleasure
to have to come here and ask this question of you, but here I am. As the chair of Dim
Charts Parish Council, I'm here today to express our community's deep disappointment and frustration
over the District Council's failure to challenge the recent decision by the
Planning Inspector to allow out -wide planning application for High Knock Farm in
Dimchurch. Our residents expected the same rigorous opposition that was displayed
in the case of the Prince's Parade development in Hyde which the Council
fought relentlessly to squash. So why in this instance has the District Council
seemingly chosen not to stand up for the residents of Dimchurch and what
Public Speaker - 0:11:10
justification is there for this inaction? Is this lack of challenge a way to
address the shortfall in housing development across the district caused
by the loss of Princess Parade and if so why has our community been made to pay
the price? Our residents deserve to know why they have not received the same
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:11:35
proactive support from the council in protecting their area from the
Public Speaker - 0:11:39
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:11:43
Thank you very much, Councillor Young, for your question. It's not quite the question
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:11:45
that I had notified to me, but I'll do my best to answer it. I can confirm that the
Planning Department did review this decision. The only challenge available would have been
to judicially review the decision at the High Court. To do so, we would have had to believe
that the decision taken by the Inspector was flawed in law. Having reviewed the
decision whilst as a council we disagree with the decision it is contrary to our
reasons for refusal we could find nothing wrong in the legal process. We do
not consider that the Inspector arrived at his decision in a manner that was
legally flawed. Therefore the Planning Department felt there was a zero chance
of successfully challenging the inspectors decision. That said it is open
to anyone be it a member of the public, a parish council or an action group to
seek a judicial review within six weeks of the decision made. I hope this
answers your question, Councillor Young. As a supplementary, I think you will find that
the judicial review of the decision on Prince's Parade was brought by a local action group
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:13:22
and not the Council. Thank you. Do you have a relevant related supplementary
Public Speaker - 0:13:27
Public Speaker - 0:13:32
question for Councillor Martin. Yes the question is we understand that the
decision by the chap from Bristol was made on the 6th of August. We were not
informed until round about the 20th of August of a decision which gave the
Public Speaker - 0:13:50
window of the six weeks a very very short span could you tell me why we
didn't get notice on the seventh
Councillor Jim Martin
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:14:02
Public Speaker - 0:14:03
thank you very much Councillor Young for your
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:14:05
supplementary simple answer I don't know I'll have to ask the planning
department if they've got any information on this and I'll come back
you by email. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your question. And we're
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:14:22
going to move on to the second public question which is from Mr. Darren
Kristin to Councillor Prater, Deputy Leader and Cabinet Member for Finance
and Governance.
so
Public Speaker - 0:14:43
does the council agree with KCC's decision to take non means tested
disability benefits into account when calculating contributions towards
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:14:58
individuals care costs thank you councillor Prater thank you for your
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:15:00
question. Mr. Christian and good evening. Thank you for coming. And in a move
that's not going to surprise other councillors much, I'm about to give you
four different answers to your question. Firstly the council doesn't have a
position on KCC's policy on this because the format view at full council or
scrutiny or cabinet would need to have discussed it and voted on it. And as
you'll know since counts policy changed at the start of September we haven't
I think we have a bad opportunity to discuss it.
However, it may well be an area that the scrutiny committee
wants to consider and make recommendations due to the impact
that that change is going to have on local residents.
I will leave that with Laura Davidson as chair of the
scrutiny committee.
Secondly, the second answer is the officer suggested that we
really couldn't answer this question as the policy is entirely outside our
control. It's a KCC policy not a district policy and although I accept that
they're right that it's outside our control I know that the change makes a
big impact on local residents and I felt it was right that you should get a
response at those meetings. Thirdly I personally don't agree that's the right
policy despite the challenges of the County Council's finances but I can't
say that that's a district council policy position it's just mine.
Kent County Council themselves will need to reconsider it and you'll need to
lobby them. I was going to say Tony Hills and Jackie Mead who are in this chamber
but actually Jackie's not here this evening but are both KCC members and it
would be well worth raising that with them directly. And my fourth answer, I'm
guessing this question comes here with a specific issue from either yourself or
your friends or your family are having. I'm not going to discuss that directly with
you now but if you can send me the details directly I'll work with our
officers to see if there are if KCC are applying their own policy correctly if
an individual assessment is likely to help in your this instance and if
there's anything our welfare team can do in this specific case I hope at least
one of my four ounces of a sub use to you thank you and do you have a
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:17:04
related
supplementary question no okay thank you for coming so we're going to move on to

7 Questions from Councillors

Item 7 on the agenda which is councillor questions. We have 16 questions from
members which are set out schedule 2. Members are invited to read your
question and then obviously we will have the answers and then there's an
opportunity for a supplementary question. So our first question this evening is
from councillor Davison to councillor Jim Martin. Thank you chair and councillor
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:17:39
Martin what information do you have about the future of the Lee's Pavilion
development in Folkestone and any ramifications for local residents in
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:17:52
terms of the construction process? Councillor Martin. Thank you very much
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:17:54
Councillor Davidson. As you know I've been taking a close interest in problems
at the Lee's Pavilion development. At the moment the council have no further
information other than the lead developer has left the project. My
understanding was however that the lead developer is not in liquidation and
there is a strong chance that another developer will now step in and take the
lead while retaining the original contractor. That is what I was
led to believe. Please note I've got no confirmation of this, it's simply
here say and as soon as I have confirmation or indeed any news I will
let the ward councillors know. Disappointingly I was informed this
afternoon by one of our former councillors who takes a close interest
in this development that there were people working on the site taking
materials away. This is not a great sign unfortunately. The council are very
very very keen to see the project completed. I've written to senior
officers this afternoon to find out what more we can find out but as soon as I
know I will let the ward councillors know. And do you have a related
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:19:24
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:19:28
supplementary question? Yes thanks for the response and I'd had similar
feedback this afternoon as well.
I think that the question that people would have in the round
is the implications in terms of any delays for the project.
Obviously, the position that residents
could be left in if work doesn't progress,
but also about the heritage, which clearly
was a key issue around the time that the planning
application was considered.
So my question would be what can we do in terms of safeguarding that aspect of
the project in the follow -up and I hope the officers if that hasn't happened
already can be in touch with the main contractor to establish what the
situation is.
Councillor Martin.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:20:13
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:20:16
Yes I think that's that's our primary concern and I've
discussed this several times with the head of planning in that we will
robustly defend the position that we are with regard to the heritage and the full
reinstatement that's required. Our concern would be that a new incoming
developer you know tries to hold us to ransom to reduce the planning
requirements in order to get the you know the development completed but our
current view is that we will robustly defend that position and we'll just have
to see what comes out of woodwork at us. Thank you. Thank you. So moving on to
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:20:59
question two from Councillor Godfrey to Councillor Shub. I'm not sure who's
answering. Okay so Councillor Martin will answer in place of Councillor Shub.
Cllr David Godfrey - 0:21:13
No it's okay. Thank you. Evening Councillor Shub. My question is there's a large number of
including those convicted of domestic violence are being released early what
is the council doing proactively to mitigate the potential effect on the
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:21:31
Cllr David Godfrey - 0:21:33
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:21:34
council services in particular on homelessness thank you very much for
your question Councillor Godfrey and it is it is extremely relevant our chair
was referring to the Rainbow Centre. The Rainbow Centre have noticed a
significant increase in the number of people sleeping rough in the
district and largely that's accounted for by the early release of
prisoners. So it's a real problem and one that we were working hard to
address. So the formal answer, the council has been working closely with the
probation service to identify potential offenders due for early release with a
connection to this area. The first phase of early releases took place in early
September and none of the four people with a connection to this area released
in phase 1 required assistance with accommodation. A further phase of early releases is due to
take place in late October. The Council's Housing Options Team will be continuing to
liaise closely with the probation service, providing housing advice and assistance to
clients where required. The difficulty is that when a prisoner is
released. They are released and often the first thing we know is when they present
themselves to our housing team and tell them they're homeless. So it's a very
very very difficult position to predict with any accuracy. All we can do is
anticipate that it's going to happen. Thank you. Thank you and do you have a
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:23:31
Cllr David Godfrey - 0:23:34
question. Yes please. Can we be assured that those that have been homeless
here and not the prisoners won't be jeopardized by this income and they
won't be there won't be any priority given?
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:23:49
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:23:52
Councillor Martin. Yeah in terms of in terms of working with the probation
service and connections to the area. Absolutely. And we haven't felt that impact. However,
homelessness is a transitory thing that is very, very difficult to predict. So I can't
an absolute assurance on that but the housing team is working very very very
hard in order to minimize that impact. We haven't seen a huge number of people
presenting themselves as homeless to us but we are aware of an increase in the
number of homeless people in the district because some people who are
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:24:53
homeless don't present. So it's a balancing act. Thank you. So moving on to
question three from Councillor Mrs Hollingsby to Councillor Jim Martin.
Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:25:02
Thank you, thank you chair. As the Folkestone Sports Centre including the
swimming pool is now closed and is up for sale and Hyde swimming pool is at
end of its economic life what plans are in place to ensure that the district is
not without a swimming pool?
Councillor Martin.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:25:24
Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:25:27
Thank you very much Councillor Hollingsby for your very relevant question.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:25:32
The council are deeply disappointed about the closure of Folkestone Sports
Centre, particularly as the Council, as you know personally, have
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:25:40
supported the
Sports Centre for many years and the grant that was given to the Trust was to
provide support for their swimming operations over many years. Council after
Council felt that we're a coastal district, it's really very very
important that children learn to swim and hence that was the
reason for our continuing grant support. However, over recent years the Council, my
predecessors including a good self, saw the problems that were coming down the
and made their further support contingent on the recovery plan that was
put in place. I continued that same policy earlier this year and we
agreed that we would we would pay in installments, we would pay the grant in
instalments because they still had not adhered to the recovery plan. In total, the Council
has supported the Folkestone Sports Centre with over a million pounds in grant aid over
the years. The Council has been in communication with the administrator since the closure and
will continue to work closely with them through this period of change. We are also in contact
with other organisations who have expressed an interest in taking over the
running of the swimming pool. The council's aspiration is for the facility
to be reopened as soon as possible. The council's team at Hyde pool continues to
welcome new swimmers at that facility with public sessions advertised on the
council website. Thank you. Thank you. Do you have a related supplementary
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:27:43
question. Thank you for the answer but I don't think it really answered my
Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:27:47
question. My question was what plans are in place to replace the high swimming
pool and in the event that we cannot open the Folkestone Sports Centre where is
our swimming pool going to be, where are we going to get it from, what plans are
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:28:07
Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:28:08
in place? Councillor Martin. Well thank you very much
Councillor Hollingsby. As you know there is a swimming pool site at Martello
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:28:13
Lakes which is available to us. If only we had the money to build it we would be
building believe me. However we're very very very engaged in these
discussions to reopen the Folkestone Leisure Centre and
pool and just as a mark of that, the administrators have not turned
off the pumps in the pool so the swimming pool water is still being
cleansed so we're taking that as a very good sign that the administrators
are actively seeking another operator. So rather than bore
everybody with the economics of Martello Lakes and why building a
swimming pool closer to the Marsh Academy might be a good idea. I'll leave
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:29:15
it at that if I may. Thank you. So moving on to question four from
Councillor Goddard to Councillor Jim Martin. Thank you chair. The new
Cllr Clive Goddard - 0:29:23
government has increased the district housing target from 735 units to 838
units per year. What will be the cumulative effect for Romney Marsh on
the increased target particularly in terms of flooding and sewage issues?
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:29:43
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:29:46
Councillor Marsden. Thank you very much Councillor Goddard for your excellent
question. While it is one of the shorter questions this evening it warrants one
of the longest answers so my apologies in advance. The Government is proposing
to change the formula of calculating how many homes each authority should plan
for. It is understood that the Government will bring in any changes early next
year including through a revised version of the National Planning Policy
framework. If the formula is implemented as proposed the council will need to
take account of the housing target in producing the next local plan. A key
consideration for the next local plan will be whether there is sufficient
capacity within the district to accommodate the housing target the
formula generates. Almost all Councillors have had an increase in housing numbers to deliver.
Some councils have had a much more significant increase than us. While I applaud the Labour
Government in their ambition on housing, but a simple, across the board increase in housing
numbers is rather a blunt instrument. If there are significant
constraints that mean that the council cannot meet its housing requirement this
would need to be demonstrated at the public examination into the local plan
and be accepted by the planning inspectors overseeing the examination.
The Deputy Prime Minister said in a letter to local authorities dated the
30th of July 2024 local authorities will be expected to make every effort to
allocate land in line with their housing need as per the standard method noting
it is possible to justify a lower housing requirement than the figure the
method sets on the basis of local constraints on land and delivery such as
flood risk. Any such justification will need to be evidenced and explained
through the consultation and examination and local authorities that cannot meet
their development needs will have to demonstrate how they have worked with
other nearby authorities to share that unmet need. So it will be for us to
produce the evidence that says you can't build a lot of houses on the marsh
because of the flood risk but we've got we do have plenty of the evidence and
indeed you know better than I a councillor Goddard from your your years
as chair of planning that we are constrained in the north of the district
by the area of outstanding natural beauty Kent landscapes and constrained
to the south by the flood risk of Romney Marsh. Otterpool will help but it does
not deliver all the numbers that are required. I am aware Councillor Goddard
that you are very familiar with the work of the Internal Drainage Board and
their almost daily battle to prevent flooding on the marsh. I know you are
also familiar with the potential flood maps that indicate if our sea defences
are breached the marsh will flood. I therefore share your concerns and I will
ensure that all of these issues are presented to the Planning Inspector.
It is therefore not possible to say tonight what the implications of the
proposed change will be for the District as a whole or for Romney Marsh until the
proposed reforms have been confirmed and the work on the new local plan has
progressed significantly to be placed before the inspector. Thank you. Thank you
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:34:05
Do you have a related supplementary question? Thank you chair. I did have but the leader
Cllr Clive Goddard - 0:34:11
obviously saw my script at the beginning of the evening and has counseled it out
so thank you for that very informative answer. Thank you. Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:34:22
So moving on
question five from councillor a Martin to councillor Jim Martin. Thank you chair.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:34:30
As there is a growing consensus that small nuclear reactors are the most
efficient way of securing low carbon energy and most importantly jobs for the
Romany Marsh what is this council doing to make the case for Dunge Ness as a
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:34:48
suitable site for this vital investment? Councillor Martin. Thank you very much
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:34:52
Thank you, Councillor Martin, for your very important question. When the previous Secretary
of State responsible for new nuclear visited Dungeness last year, I was very happy to meet
him and I relentlessly set out the advantages of placing an SMR at Dungeness while we ate
cotton chips in the pilot. I am grateful to Councillor Thomas at that time for giving me
the crib sheet that was necessary to set out the key advantages prior to that meeting.
This Council wholeheartedly supports clean energy production as evidenced by our motion
passed on the 29th of November 2023. KCC and our new MP are keen to promote the
site for a small modular reactor and have set up a Dungeness working group
which meets every month. That group has representation from this council on it.
I've put my name to a recent letter and invitation to Tony Vaughan and Ed
Miliband to visit the site promoting it to be considered as part of the
government's carbon -free clean energy drive. I've also put my name to a letter
and invitation to Lord Hunt the Minister for Energy again promoting the site.
Officers have been in discussion with Natural England, the National Grid and
EDF the owners of the site to understand their respective positions regarding
Dungeness meetings have taken place with SMR technology companies. KCC are very
much driving this as lead partners and FHDC will provide the necessary
planning advice when required. Engaging with Natural England, the National Grid
and EDF to understand their respective positions regarding Dungeness is
essential in our view. I trust this assures you that this Council is
playing its part in seeking to facilitate investment in clean energy
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:37:17
at Dungeness. Thank you and do you have a related supplementary question? Yes I do
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:37:22
so thank you for that answer and there's a lot of welcome content and activity in
that. Of course there are lots of different options for power generation
for clean power generation but when we think about jobs on the Romney Marsh it
is the the nuclear option that is the most appealing to to us locally. My
question given the importance of that is should the council have a working party
of councillors and other stakeholders given the importance to us within the
district to support efforts to get new new nuclear and at the very least should
we ensure that the new nuclear plan features in our corporate plan.
Councillor Marsden.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:38:03
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:38:05
Thank you very much for your supplementary.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:38:06
Happy to consider.
The difficulty that we have is that whatever happens, it's not going to happen quickly.
It is all very woolly, but there are a lot of other sites in front of Dungeness at the
moment, as I understand it. Now, very, very happy to broaden the discussions. We have
Councillor representatives on New Leaf. We're very, very close to this. If Councillor Martin
feels that a working group might be helpful, then I'm very happy to consider that as an
but at the moment we are waiting for others to make decisions before we know
where any of this is going. Thank you so moving on to question six from Councillor
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:39:03
Hills to Councillor Scoffin.
Cllr Tony Hills - 0:39:10
Thank you chair. What is Folsom High District Council doing to protect the
from flooding this winter?
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:39:21
Cllr Tony Hills - 0:39:23
Thank you for your question, Councillor Hills.
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:39:25
One of the prime reasons for this is your thinking of climate change
and the difficulties of the previous very wet winter
and the threat of other very wet winters to come.
The formal answer is that the protection of Romney Marsh is a combined effort
involving several key partners including the Environment Agency, Southern Water
and the Romney Marsh internal drainage board. This was certainly a point
reinforced by the recent presentation which you attended given at the overview
and scrutiny committee on inland flooding. In terms of what the council is
doing there are several ongoing actions and there are six which we highlight
here. In terms of Romney Marsh, planning policy places restrictions in terms of
flooding zones, requires routine consultation on planning applications
and together with the Environment Agency and the Internal Drainage Board and the
requirement in certain locations for flood risk assessments. Secondly, the
direct financial support provided to the Internal Drainage Board
through the special levy is currently 585 ,000 for the current financial year.
Thirdly, the oversight given to the activities of the various partners by the Council,
which the meeting of the Overview and Scrutiny Committee last week was a good example,
I would also add to this that the continued lobbying by this Council of the EA and Sovereign Water
for greater investment in local water infrastructure,
and I myself attended a reception at the House of Commons in earlier this year to
promote lobbying by 20 or so local authorities particularly the Finland
authorities and that is having and seems to be attracting considerable media
interest. Fourthly maintenance and investment in council -owned pumping
stations and treatment works is ongoing where properties are not connected to
the mains. Fifthly, flood warden duties checking water courses and sluice gates
in periods of inclement weather. And finally the council's emergency
planning flood response which includes the provision of sandbags and
support for residents. So council officers will be continuing to undertake
these services vigilantly and will continue to work with other agencies and
and where possible hold them to account.
Thank you. Do you have a related supplementary question?
Yes please.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:42:03
Cllr Tony Hills - 0:42:05
Thank you for that answer, Councillor.
I do appreciate it. You personally take it very seriously and I respect that.
But as you saw in the Overview and Scrutiny Committee, we didn't get the necessary answers.
So I'm proposing to you, and I hope you agree with this as a supplementary,
is that we set up a working party to engage with all those organizations to
get information before the problem happens rather than try and repair it
afterwards. I hope you would agree with that as a matter of urgency.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:42:40
Cllr Tony Hills - 0:42:41
Thank you very much for that suggestion Councillor Hills which I welcome.
Personally I'm not familiar with the procedures for setting up a committee of
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:42:49
or working group of that type, but we can certainly investigate that and the fact
that at Overview and Scrutiny Committee we had representatives from four
different agencies presenting what they were doing and clearly the labyrinthine
negotiations have to go on between the different agencies and their respective
officers is a hindrance when it comes to flooding and water control of the marsh
areas. So anything we can do to increase the efficiency and the effectiveness of
our actions on flooding control would be most appropriate. I'm very much aware
that the water table is already high, that we've had one of the wettest
September's on record and that we're heading into a winter period which may
or may not be every bit as wet as the previous winter. So advance action is
absolutely in order and I did write to John Mealy of Southern Water today
asking what progress they were making in lining the pipes which had been giving
trouble last winter where infiltration from fields had caused the system to
become overloaded. Clearly I haven't got a reply yet because I only sent that off
at midday but thank you for that suggestion. Thank you so I will move on
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:44:08
question seven from Councillor Paul Thomas to Councillor Jim Martin. Thank
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:44:14
you chair. Following the wholly unsatisfactory response from the
Environment Agency representative at the overview and scrutiny committee meeting
on Tuesday the 24th of September regarding the bathing water quality
disaster at Little Stone, St Mary's Bay, Dim Church and now Folkestone. Will the leader
write to the right honorable Stephen Reid MP, Secretary of State for the
and Environment, Food and Rural Affairs asking for a government -led independent inquiry into
the acquisition, analysis and communication of the bathing water quality results from
the Environment Agency.
Furthermore, would the leader include in a letter a review of funding of bathing water
quality management within the Environment Agency?
Also a very specific answer on why we had days when every bathing water sample from
to South Sea failed for no apparent reason as stated by the EA representative
at that meeting. Thank you.
Councillor Martin.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:45:10
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:45:14
Thank you for your question Councillor Thomas which is
extraordinarily relevant. I was also present at the recent meeting of the
overview and scrutiny committee. Overall I thought it was a timely and very
informative session and several serious concerns were highlighted which
reference in your question. I do share your concerns about some of the
responses. I am sympathetic to your reasons for asking for an independent
inquiry but having taken advice from officers and on reflection I do not
think that this is the best course of action. It is unlikely that an
independent inquiry would be agreed in the first place but even if established
it could take a considerable time to investigate and report resulting in the
risk of vital actions being put on hold until the inquiry completed its work. I
think we all share the view that there is a need for urgent action by the
right directly to the Secretary of State to request the following specific actions. I
will also copy in our local MP and request his assistance in escalating these matters
with the Secretary of State. In the overview and scrutiny meeting, the environment agency
disclosed that there was no budget set for any investigative testing. Instead, limited
funding had been diverted from other projects. This raises a separate concern
about what projects are not being progressed. The action needed is for the
Environment Agency to recognize the very real risk that for the bathing season
2025, four out of six of the district bathing waters could be designated as
poor. For those who don't realize poor means we have to erect no swim notices.
The Environment Agency needs to set a sufficient budget and allocate staff
resources to fully investigate and resolve the causes with the target of
returning the district's beaches to a good classification by the following
year. The investigation needs to include much more extensive testing in and out
of season as well as testing for DNA species markers. The staff resourcing
needs to be local and experienced with the necessary technical
skills. It also needs to be able to access regulatory and legal
expertise if enforcement action is required against businesses or the water company. Secondly,
the Environment Agency should review the St Mary's Bay classification. The testing results at St
Mary's Bay have improved this bathing season but despite good results the classification for next
year could remain poor. This is because it will be based on a four -year rolling result.
We will know for definite when the new classification results are released by Defra in December.
It would seem very unfair for a beach to continue to be designated as poor despite the most
recent results being good simply based on a four -year algorithm. The question
about why the results failed all along the south coast over several days is
intriguing and it is for the Environment Agency to investigate. However I think we
are best to focus our efforts on securing resourcing locally. I
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:49:34
question. Yeah thank you very much for that answer Councillor Martin. I do in
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:49:38
relation to the immediacy of the issue that we have to deal with. So the sewage
discharge pipes at the beaches at Dimchurch St Mary's Bay in Littlestone
directly come onto the beach. It's been stated anecdotally that children and
dogs will play in this water, this clean water that appears to be coming from
these pipes. Would the leader support the introduction of warning signs at
of the above locations informing residents, visitors and especially dog
walkers with small dachshunds of the hazards that could be present in these
waters for example E. coli particularly in the winter period when the water
could contain significant levels of bacteria. Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:50:25
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:50:29
Councillor Lassam. I certainly agree I think it's incumbent upon us to because
we're in the know, we understand this. So I fully support that. However, what I have
to say is I have listened to the Environment Agency and Southern Water talk to me about
different reasons why the very unhelpfully named water course, the new sewer, is the
source of the problem. Yet this year's results seem to work completely against that theory
and the one conclusion that I came away from the excellent overview and scrutiny committee
where I think council has really shone a light on the inadequacies of these agencies is they
haven't got a clue. And that for us is terrifying. We had the polluter, Southern Water, in the
room, we had the Guardian in the agency, the environment agency, in the room and neither
of them could give us answers. And for me that is, that's flipping scary. So I'll leave
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:51:40
it at that. Thank you. And we'll move on to question 8 from Councillor Cooper to Councillor
Jeremy Speakman. But as Councillor Speakman is not here tonight, the leader has agreed
to give a response on his behalf so more of Jim Martin tonight. Thank you chair.
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:51:56
My question is this there are a number of families on the Grassmead estate in
St. Mary's Bay that were enabled to get the alternative playground in Oak Drive.
Residents want to know when they can expect the dilapidated locked children's
playground in Meadsway to be brought back into use.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:52:15
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:52:18
Councillor Martin. Thank you very much Councillor Cooper for your question.
Unfortunately the play equipment in Meads Way is old and beyond economical
repair. The play area was closed and locked to prevent access. As part of the
play area strategy St Mary's Bay Parish Council were approached by officers to
see if they would be interested in adopting the play areas at Oak Drive and
Meads Way, with a dowry from the District Council to assist in the future
maintenance. This process has worked well with Folkestone Town Council,
Halkinch Town Council, Hightown Council and others, but the opportunity was not
accepted by St Mary's Bay Parish Council due to them having insufficient
resources to manage the additional play areas. Can I just add here wearing my
Hifetown Councillor hat that thanks to the Herculean effort of our chair
Councillor Anita Jones a great deal of SILL funding was obtained to maintain
and enhance the adopted play areas in HIVE. This SILL funding for playgrounds
not always available to the District Council but readily available to towns
and parishes. The play area strategy states that where town and parish
councils do not wish to adopt non -strategic play areas the District
Council may consider closing the play area, removing the equipment and
returning the area to an open space. In 2022 the District Council undertook a
significant refurbishment of the Oak Drive play area costing in the region of
£60 ,000 to ensure that there was a high quality play area in St Mary's Bay. The
parish council were consulted on this and were made aware that the smaller
play area in Meads Way would have the equipment removed and the area would be
return to open space due to the equipment being beyond economical repair.
The council has no available funding for new equipment at Meadsway play area so
unfortunately it cannot be reopened. The area will remain as open space. Officers
will be happy to have further conversations with the parish council
should they wish to reconsider the adoption of the Meads Way play area.
Thank you for your question.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:54:58
Anne, do you have a related supplementary question?
I do actually. Can we not just get together and get this resolved?
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:55:03
Because I was on St. Medes Bay Parish Council
and all this, what you've just explained to me, went on.
As far as I'm aware, as a member of the St. Medes and the Marsh Parish Council,
there was no such thing as Meads Way being included
because the Parish Council had Jefferson Lane,
the recreation ground up at Jefferson Lane. But I do feel it's important that there are
a number of families in Meadsway who have got children with disabilities to disable
themselves and they cannot safely be expected to travel more than 10 minutes, which is what
the play policy is of this council, to actually get to a play area. I would also advise, if
I may please... Sorry, can we have a question, please?
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:55:40
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:55:42
Yes, of course. I do apologise. If it wasn't for the fact that the previous administration
not this one actually maintaining the equipment the play park would still be
there can I ask a meeting with councillor Jeremy speakman speakman a
big one could I ask for the meeting with Jeremy speakman and the relevant
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:56:03
director I move this forward Councillor Martin well I'm very happy to respond
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:56:05
positively to that I think I think a meeting with a councillor speakman would
be helpful but if I could I would also encourage possibly some advice from
Councillor Anita Jones who is expert I think from a high -town council
point of view of managing to lever in extra money for play equipment which she
has been very very successful at doing so very happy to work together on
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:56:42
finding a solution for this. Thank you for your praise and yes I would be happy
to assist I think play equipment is very important for children. So we will move
on to question nine from Councillor Cooper to Councillor Polly Blakemore.
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:56:56
Good evening Councillor Blakemore can I ask what is when is this council going to
issue an abatement order to deal with the alleged statutory nuisance situation
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:57:07
at the Newbreach holiday park in Dinsherge please. Thank you chair and thank you for
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:57:09
the question Councillor Cooper. My understanding is that officers have
already been in touch with you about this matter this week and they will
investigate and come back directly to you with their findings and
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:57:23
recommendations. And do you have a related question? No, thank you for the answer.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:57:25
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:57:27
Thank you and we will move on to question 10 from Councillor Wimble to
Cllr David Wimble - 0:57:36
Councillor Jim Martin. Thank you chair and first of all can I just congratulate
you're bringing this meeting to the Academy. Very welcomed. I feel these
questions are actually sent in about July so some of them have actually been
answered I think but could the leader of the council provide an up -to -date
response regarding the request to have a spokesperson from Southern Water address
the council specifically to explain why despite substantial investment being
made into water treatment networks there's been no action taken on the
treatment plant has been operating well over its design capacity for more than
10 years local residents have expressed serious concerns about sea pollution and
the increasing incidence of sewage backups in their properties.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:58:22
Councillor Marston.
Yes, sorry I'm losing track.
Who are we on?
Cllr David Wimble - 0:58:27
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:58:30
Thank you for your question Councillor Wimble.
Senior representatives from Southern Water along with other partner agencies
attended the recent meeting of the overview and scrutiny committee on the
24th of September. I noticed at the time that you were not in attendance however
many of the ward councillors from Romney Marsh were present. At the meeting
Southern Water gave presentations on their actions in response to the serious
concerns raised by our residents about inland flooding and bathing water
quality. This was followed by a detailed and wide -ranging questioning by
committee members and the Romney Marsh ward councillors. I was heartened by the
detailed and knowledgeable questioning by the Romney Marsh councillors who also
had the opportunity to question the Environment Agency and the Internal
Drainage Board. The minutes and presentations from the meeting I
understand will be published shortly. Thank you. Thank you. Do you have a
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:59:37
related question? No. Okay so we'll move on to question 11. I think we still have
time so from Councillor Wimble to Councillor Jim Martin. Thank you. Again I
Cllr David Wimble - 0:59:48
think this may have been answered but given that all political parties other
than Reform UK and Conservatives have previously stated that this council is
opposed to new nuclear development at Dungeness back in November, they're now
now appears to be a shift in the position as our MP Tony Bourne actively
supports it. Could you clarify whether the council still maintains its
opposition to new nuclear dungeon s considering its parents split within the
Labour Party with a local branch seemingly against it while the MP is
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:00:22
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:00:27
in support. Thank You councillor Wimble for your question which I have to say
surprised me. This council supports the generation of clean energy that means
energy generation which does not produce carbon such as solar, wind, wave, tidal,
hydro, thermal and the installation of SMRs. I'm surprised because you voted on
the motion in November the 29th of November last year which asked the
to confirm in writing our unequivocal support for a new era of nuclear energy
production at Dungeness by writing to the Secretary of State etc. The amended
motion offered our unequivocal support for clean energy generation. The motion
was passed and this council's support was confirmed. This
at Dungeness as you state and you as I said voted in the debate where the
Conservative group helpful helpful when the Conservative groups helpful motion
allowed this council to confirm that position. I am unable to speculate on
discussions within the Labour Party but I think that directing a question to me
about the Labour Party during a meeting of the full council is inappropriate,
wastes time and smacks of a rather trivial mischief making.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:02:06
David.
Cllr David Wimble - 1:02:09
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:02:14
Okay do you have a related supplementary question? We only have one minute remaining on this item.
Cllr David Wimble - 1:02:20
The actual motion put forward by Councillor Hollingsby was whether the
council were back Dungeness. You did not mention Dungeness and just mentioned
carbon neutral where the actual motion was. This needs to be a question and not a
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:02:30
Cllr David Wimble - 1:02:33
statement please. Well the question is so you are supporting new nuclear Dungeness.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:02:39
Councillor Martin. I think if you look at the minutes of that meeting
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:02:42
you will see
that we support new wind, hydro, SMRs. So I can't say any more than it says in the
minutes. Now you know we're just about to run out of time. There are several
questions that haven't been asked and again I go back to this is just a bit of
trivial mischief making asking me about discussions within the Labour Party.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:03:13
Thank you and I'm going to apologize to the remaining councillors who had asked
questions. You will be obviously given a written response in regards to your
questions but unfortunately we have run out of time on that item on the agenda.
So we're going to move on to item 8 on the agenda and this is announcements of

8 Announcements of the Leader of the Council

the leader of the council and we're again going to hear from
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:03:36
Councillor Jim
First of all, can I say how happy I am to be here this evening enjoying the hospitality
of the fantastic Marsh Academy. I first attended the Marsh Academy at the invitation of Councillor
Hollingsby, I seem to remember, at a careers fair that she was organising at the time when
I gave a presentation on the advantages of becoming a Chancellor's
Surveyor to a group of very disinterested sixth formers. I am
grateful to our chair for suggesting and pursuing this initiative and I am also
very grateful to the officers who have worked so hard to make it all happen.
So well done team. I am delighted to note that the Reach the Beach holiday bus
service launched in Folkestone by our friends at Cross Keys has been one
of the great successes of the summer with over 12 ,000 passengers in six weeks.
This demonstrates without question that there is a demand for bus services which
are well planned, well timetabled and well delivered. I do hope that Stagecoach,
our scheduled bus provider, will take note and I understand from other sources they
have. I've been in regular contact with Southern Water and held meetings with
them online and in person. These meetings are principally concerned about the
sewage spills in the sea and the quality of our bathing water. I've also discussed
the problems on the Copperfield Estate in Lyd, the flooding at Oden Road and
Beverly Gardens in Dimchurch and the impact the use of tankers have during
the winter moving sewage from Newington and Peene to Range Road in Hive. I have
further meetings with Southern Walter and the Environment Agency planned but
without a massive financial investment into their ailing infrastructure I see
little hope of significant improvement. I also attended two different meetings to
discuss potential flooding on the Marsh. I have been interviewed by local media
several times regarding the beaches on St Mary's Bay, Little Stone and Dimchurch.
I attended a meeting of the council's overview and scrutiny committee where
members were able to question Southern Walter and the Environment Agency on the
of pollution on our beaches and what they have done to remedy the pollution.
This meeting allowed the council to shine a light on the pollution caused by
southern water and the failure of the Environment Agency to protect our beaches.
The leaders of the four political groups and independent Councillor Paul Thomas
have been meeting regularly as we move towards a committee system. These
meetings will continue and we are on track to move to a committee system at
our AGM in May. I have been chairing the committee considering applications under
the Rural Prosperity Fund along with officers and ward councillors. I have
been delighted with the range and diversity of the proposals. We are a
rural district and the prosperity of rural areas must be supported where
possible. I am pleased to announce that work is progressing on our new
corporate plan. We will be shortly launching a consultation to the public.
There has been significant input from all parties represented in this Chamber
and I am grateful to members for their ideas, suggestions and advice. I hope
everyone in the District will participate in the consultation. I was
pleased to be invited by our chair to a discussion including the corporate plan
with young people from different schools across the district including the Marsh
Academy. I was struck by the ability of young people to articulate very
specifically the real and precise problems they face in this district. I
think that all councillors including myself should take note. I have attended
many meetings regarding Otterpool Park with government agencies, developers and
consultants. These discussions have been positive and will continue. I cannot say
too much at this stage but I am hopeful of securing the necessary funding for
Otterpool, sorry I'm more hopeful about securing the necessary funding for
Otterpool than I have been since becoming leader in May 2023. I've
the leaders of all political parties and the chair of overview and scrutiny. As the council's
armed forces champion, I was honoured to attend the Royal British Legion Industries' 105th
anniversary. I was very pleased to attend this year's Hyde Venetian Fete and I did manage
to get on a float. I have attended the business advisory board meetings. I attended a Meet
the funders event at Three Hills. I have been visiting businesses in the
district as usual including developers, artists, healthcare providers, hotels and
hospitality. Business holds some very interesting perspectives on the future
of the district and this council is a friend to good business. I have attended
meetings to discuss Folkestone Town Centre activation project. I attended the
Folkestone Food Festival, the Hive Food Festival and the Hive Food and Drink
Festival. I also attended the 750th anniversary of the founding of the
St John and St Bartholomew Hospital Trust which these days is sheltered
accommodation. Along with many coastal districts I continue to attend a monthly
meeting organised by the Environment Agency to collectively express our shared
concern about Southern Waters' consistent failure to meet the needs of its customers.
I have attended the Kent Leaders' Forum meetings to discuss the issues which affect councils
in Kent. I have also attended meetings of the East Kent Leaders' Forum, which has a
more focused view on the issues affecting the East Kent districts. The topics discussed
include transport, waste control and business, but currently the agenda for both forums is
is dominated by the prospect of devolution
in local government as announced
by the Deputy Prime Minister.
I have attended meetings along with interested
ward councillors, local businesses, and wildlife agencies
to discuss the future of the Romney Marsh Visitor Centre.
I attended St. Leonard's Church in Hive
for the Chairs Evensong.
Finally, I was delighted to participate
in the 10th anniversary Folkestone Parkrun which was started by our very own
ex Olympian who was back in Folkestone officiating at the Paris from
officiating at the Paris Olympics before returning to Paris to officiate in the
Paralympics. The Parkrun in Folkestone is fantastic it is free to enter very
friendly to first -time runners and offers in my opinion the best views of
any park run anywhere in the country. Thank you chair. Thank You councillor
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:11:32
Martin you've been very busy. So we're going to have five minutes for the
response so we're going to start with councillor Lockwood. Thank you chair and
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 1:11:45
thank you Jim for that comprehensive update. It's a shame that you didn't
raise the issue of Boxton Sports Centre. The local community and Labour Party
members have set up but save folks to sports center unincorporated body and
that group has applied to this council for to register the center as an asset
of community value. This council have confirmed that decision will be taken on
this on the 1st of November. Our group's grave concern is the center will be
sold to a speculative developer before then and our much -loved swimming pool
will be lost forever. Thank you. Although you didn't mention it but I'd like to
take this opportunity to thank the Council for its current position on
Fokston Library. We agree with this position and we understand that the Tory
administration at County Council have a lot to answer for in this respect.
and we and thank you for your comments about Romany Marsh business visitor
center we we support any action the council can take in that respect as well
thank you for all the various updates questions answers and what you've just
said about sewage the sewage dumping crisis the Secretary of State for
Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Stephen Reid MP has said this on the
11th of July and hopefully this is some comfort to Councillors Thomas and
Wimble with respect to their questions. He said we will never look the other way
while water companies pump sewage into our rivers, lakes and seas. This
unacceptable destruction of our waterways should never have been allowed
but the change has now begun so that it can never happen again. We hope this is
some comfort to the council and a sign of radical improvements to come. Thank
you for the information you've given us on Otterpool. It's clear coming
from Labour Party conference last week that new housing is one of the top
priorities. On the 30th of July, Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner said,
today marks a significant step to getting Britain building again. Our decisive reforms
to the planning system to correct the errors of the past and set us on our way to tackling
the housing crisis. Something I am personally proud of, this is Angela not me, something
I'm personally proud of our new flexibilities for councils will boost the
number of social and affordable homes and give working families a better route
to a secure home. We understand the sensitivities around the high
knock development that's been mentioned earlier this was largely agreed by the
previous administration. We hope that the future for new housing is brighter and
and that we have a hope that things will improve.
And we also hope that Otterball Park
plays a major role in this.
We look forward to the corporate plan consultation
going out and we look forward to working with the council
with respect to how the feedback from that
shapes the plan going forward.
Thank you to everyone that's working on the new committee system. The update
given to all councillors on the 28th of August was very helpful. We appreciate
there's still some work to do on this but moving forward we're looking
forward to a more open transparent and democratic way of working in May 2025.
And can I just add our congratulations to all involved on the free bus service.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:15:58
Thank you and before we move on to our other opposition response we need to set
the record straight regarding the swimming pool I believe so I'd like to hand over.
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 1:16:10
Thank you, thank you. Members it's just a point of clarification and thank you to
Susan Priest - 1:16:16
Councillor Lockwood for raising around the application for the asset of
community value. I think I've got that the right way round. It was just to
clarify the process will take up to eight weeks clearly officers understand
the importance that this council places on that and we will get through the
necessary work and due diligence and the process as swiftly as we possibly can so
it's up to before a decision to be made within an eight -week period not on that
day so just a point the clarification members thank you okay thank you and
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:16:49
we're going to move on to our other opposition response Councillor mrs.
Jenny Hollingsby.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee - 1:16:58
And I must say, I thought we were
commenting on the leaders actual report rather than actually
making comments.
But I take that.
I too am really pleased to be back at the Marsh Academy.
I spent over 20 years here.
It's almost like home to me.
And yes, you're quite right.
I believe though, before you even did the Korea episode, you also were at a political,
I arranged a political panel two or three elections ago, I think.
So yes.
I'm also very pleased about the beach bus service.
It does show that people want to come to Folkestone, they want to use that service, and they're
to use that service rather than using cars to go down to the promenade.
I think that's great. I welcome again all your conversations with Southern
Water, the Environment Agency and anything to do with flooding and I know
from my colleagues on Romney Marsh it's a really really important issue
especially of course the sewage issue and of course the bathing water because
we want people to come to the marsh, we want people to come to the district, we
want people to be able to use our beaches and our seas. Committee system, well I
think you probably all know my views about the committee system. I think it
doesn't do us any good. I think what it does, it gives the officers and
the officers are amazing but it gives the officers much more control. Individual
portfolio holders will not have a portfolio anymore, it will be committee
system so in my view it makes it more difficult and it will take longer for
decisions to be made and I have and my group have voted against the committee
system all along but we will see, we will see. I welcome, I mean I'm really pleased
about the Rural Prosperity Fund, my area, my ward has done really really well out
of the Rural Prosperity Fund because I've been able to invite
them really I suppose to apply. There is funding there, there's still funding
available in the Rural Development Fund and I would you know say to anybody that
if you've got a scheme that will benefit the district and you meet the criteria
of the Rural Prosperity Fund, please do apply. There is still funding left. I
don't want to be greedy in my area because I think we've got three or four
now and I think there's another one on its way in my area. So please do
have a look at the criteria and see whether any of your plans might fit.
corporate plan and again I am fighting for dungeness to be included.
Dungeness and nuclear. I've sat at many meetings on the corporate plan and they
will not, they will not mention dungeness and I am determined that we are going to
have done to this in that plan and nuclear.
Otterpool Park.
Well, I've just come actually
from the Conservative Party Conference.
I just came straight down from Birmingham to here today.
And the number of people who are actually speaking to me
at the conference about Otterpool Park
and asking me what's happening and I think that's what we're all asking
Councillor Martin. I know you've given us a brief but we want to move on
quicker, we really do want to move on quicker and I know from experience how
slow Homes England are but my plea would be let's get on with it as soon as we
I know you are but if we can't get any support from Homes England we need to be
looking elsewhere because if this project is delayed much longer we will
be looking for areas across the district to build these houses. I'm afraid time's up
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:21:36
and we're going to have to stop there but thank you so much. Can I just say how
Otterball is very important to this district. We know, we know, thank you, thank you so much and we're
to move on to just five minutes for Councillor Jim Martin to reply. Thank you
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:21:54
very much I will try to be brief. I take on board what Councillor
Ockwood said absolutely. There were questions this evening which we didn't
get to that would have talked about all of the things you mentioned and
just to offer some more more reassurance to Councillor Hollingsby,
Susan Priest, the Chief Executive, and myself had a meeting with Peter Denton, the Chief
Executive of Holmes England yesterday, so you know we are moving towards an end game.
I do have some sympathy with them because suddenly they've
got this huge momentum now from central government.
And we don't want to get too involved in that discussion.
All we really want is some funding
to build our sewage treatment works.
But we had a meeting, and there will be further discussions.
We spent this afternoon composing a letter
that we're doing in response to that meeting.
so you know I'm nothing certain but I we are we are moving towards an end
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:23:09
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:23:11
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:23:15
thank you okay so we need to just seek a proposal and a seconder for that item
so who would like to propose that's the Martin and Councillor Blake more to
second and are we all agreed? Thank you. So we have the portfolio reports which I
hope you've all read. I think it's really interesting to see what our cabinet

9 Portfolio Holder reports to Council

members have been doing. They've been very busy, a lot of things happening in
our district but we are just going to note those. I don't think we need to

10 Opposition Business

agree them do we? So we'll move on to item 10 which is opposition business and
we have one item of opposition business from the Labour Group and Councillor
Lockwood is going to introduce the business and then advise us which option
you'd like to propose and then we will look for a seconder so Councillor
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:24:10
Lockwood. Thank you chair it was part of our manifesto.
apologies my microphone didn't come on. Thank you chair. It was part of the Labour
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 1:24:30
group's manifesto last year to, well we stated to introduce a private landlord's
charter. We've reflected on that and seen that actually in section 3 of the
Housing Act 2004 there's ample cover there already. I'd like to thank
Councilor Prater for finding our housing a private rented policy from 2020 on our
website which we've had a look at and and I think we've taken the decision
that probably the best approach with the least impact on council resources and
and gets us to the best position is that we review the current policy and how
that's performing and then that comes back to the council with some with
information about whether that policy is functioning properly or not and whether
We're sufficiently covering our people, our residents in private, the private rented sector.
I've got or had some figures from Shelter that I can't, oh, yeah, so Shelter published
these figures recently. 25 % of private renters do not ask for repairs due to fear of eviction.
50 % of private renters have experienced damp and or mould in the last year. And a third
of private renters spend half or more of their income on rent. So with that in mind, and
from talking to people in my ward and Harbour Ward
and Central Ward in Folkestone,
and we know there are issues across the district,
some of the private rented accommodation
is not up to standard.
And so we're bringing this business to try
and address this in the way that's a sensible approach
for this council, and that if we find that policy
isn't functioning then we can look at provisions within the Housing Act but
taking into account there's the budgeting process and resources would be
needed further down the line so we're quite happy to take that approach. So we
would recommend option B as the route through. So just before we move on to
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:27:27
option B says refer the issue to the cabinet or relevant overview and
committee as the case may be for their observations before deciding whether to
make a decision on the issue just so that everybody's clear and do you have a
seconder? Councillor Laura Davidson would you like to speak on this? I would
Cllr Belinda Walker - 1:27:46
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:27:48
actually thank you chair and yes I support this motion as a good first step
forward on this hugely important issue I'm sure it's the same for all
councillors that this is one of the key issues that we get contacted about by
residents' housing across the district.
And obviously the place in which people are living
is a fundamental issue for people.
So I think it's right that we're raising this
and bringing it forward.
And it's incumbent on us as a council
to use the abilities and the powers and the channels
that we have on the side of our residents
to make sure that accommodation that people are living in
is suitable and up to standard.
and as Councillor Lockwood said many residents are in a position where
they're not able to speak out about these issues and then are vulnerable and
precarious position so I think it's really important the role that can the
council can play in supporting our residents to address these issues so I
hope that we can collectively support the motion today. Thank you and so it's
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:28:49
now open for debate and we have 30 minutes for the debate on this so have
anybody who'd like to speak about this
oh are we all agreed agreed agreed that was a nice easy one thank you okay so

11 Motions on Notice

we're going to move on to item 11 motions on notice we have one motion on
notice from councillor mrs. Jenny Hollingsby and councillor jelling
We will present this motion and then we'll need a seconder and then we'll open for debate.
Thank you, thank you very much indeed chair.
Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee - 1:29:38
Well, actually I was hoping that I wouldn't need to bring this motion and I thought I
might be able to withdraw it, especially
in view of the Labour members at the Labour conference voting
against it, even though Keir Starmer had left and gone off
somewhere else.
So he wasn't able to be and hear the results
of that election, of that motion.
So I'm quite surprised that it's still here.
And there are a number, well first of all, changes to the winter fuel allowance and
protecting pensioners for fuel property. The Labour Government's recent decision
to restrict the winter fuel payment to any pensioners in receipt of means
tested benefits like pension credit as announced by the Chancellor Rachel
Reeves. There's been a lot of public outcry on this, there's been a lot of
agencies, Age UK, the Countryside Alliance and other charities
highlighting the social injustice and potential health risks. The House Service
says that it will cost them during the winter period £169 million.
So I'm asking you, do you really think that a universal, the universal
fuel allowance to all our pensioners within the... it is right to take it away for their health reasons.
I know some people don't need it. I don't need it. What I do with it, I give it to charity usually at Christmas
and that means that they get an extra 25 pence in the pound as well. So giving it to charity means that they actually get more.
So it's really disappointing that the Labour Party are doing this to all the
pensioners in the country and do you know we have 24 ,497 pensioners who
will lose this winter fuel allowance in our area. Now that surely can't be
right. That can't be right. And we know from the press and from lots of other agencies
that many people who perhaps are able to claim pension credit don't. I understand it's a
form of about eight or ten pages. So, you know, a lot to fill in. And a lot of pensioners,
of course don't even know that they're entitled and actually don't want to
apply for it. They feel guilty, they feel that it's not what they should be doing.
For some reason or other they feel it's disgraceful to have to
claim benefits and I don't think any of our pensioners should actually feel like
that. We're told the government say the current government talk about a black
hole. Well I was talking to Jeremy Hunt and Jeremy Hunt tells me that
come the budget time there will be 39 billion surplus so we don't need to take
the fuel allowance from our pensioners. I don't know, I hope you've all read the
the motion and what we want to do is to bring forward a council -led local
awareness campaign. Now I know that Councillor Prater, I think Councillor Prater
read our motion hardly before it was printed and the next day what do we find?
a press release offering guidance to pensioners. So it was
acknowledged very very quickly. So that's a request the council leader to
write to the Chancellor of the Exchequer urging a review of the
decision to means test the wind -fuel payment and asking the government to
that vulnerable pensioners, particularly those who do not claim pension credit, are
protected from fuel poverty. And I put here, where is it?
Oh, Stockton Borough Council among many other borough councils and
district councils says that it is deeply unfair. It was a motion that was
carried by their councillors.
I've got some other quotes here somewhere.
Excuse me.
Bear with me just a moment.
I've got a quote from Rosie Duffield, who's
resigned the Labour whip.
And she says they are cruel and unnecessary
and affect hundreds of thousands of our poorest, most vulnerable
constituents.
so and I'd got I'd actually put some of Margaret Thatcher's words down somewhere
but I can't find it now but at the end of the day at the end of the day to to
encourage local efforts to promote pension credit uptake through council
services and partnerships and I know we we probably do that with our community
hubs with our agencies with communities in general but I think writing to the
Chancellor telling him that we really are disappointed upset and concerned
about our pensioners because it's all very well taking it from from people
perhaps you think might afford it but most of them can't most of them can't
So I would ask you and I think at the end of the day this motion comes to do
you accept that fuel allowance should be taken away from pensioners or not it's a
very simple question and I hope everybody in this room can support this
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:36:20
motion. Thank you. Do you have a seconder? Yes. And would you like to speak on that?
Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee - 1:36:27
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:36:28
that's Councillor David Godfrey not going to speak on it no okay that's fine
so it's now open for debate and we have 60 minutes oh sorry we have 60 minutes
to debate this motion and I believe we're going to ask Councillor Keene
first to speak. Yeah I want to speak because I was at the conference and I
Cllr Nicola Keen - 1:36:49
don't know if it's escaped your attention Jenny but he is the Prime
minister of this country now and he was off to New York for negotiations about
much more serious things. That's why I left the conference early so I just
wanted to make that clear. I don't feel that I need to protect him, he could
don't do that for himself. What I'd like to say is nobody is in favor of taking
money from the most vulnerable and but the the last administration took money
from the most vulnerable in the way that they dealt with our public services
and nobody worried then about what happened to the old people then. Nobody.
Not in your administration. And I was really hoping that this evening nobody
would make this a party political broadcast. I'm very disappointed. The
winter fuel allowance is going to be means tested. It was voted against by
members and trade unions at the conference and it is means tested on the
basis that we can't afford for people to give that money to charity. There is a
and that black hole is going to carry on growing.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:37:57
Thank you and we're going to move on to Councillor Fuller.
Not sure I can follow that, but anyway.
Cllr Gary Fuller - 1:38:03
But it was quite interesting hearing a member of the Conservatives lecturing us on the dangers of taking money from people.
As somebody with a disabled partner and a disabled son,
I lived through the years of austerity
when the Conservatives were very much in favor
of taking as much money from as many vulnerable people
as possible, to the point that research this year
suggests that the Conservatives during austerity
were responsible for about 190 ,000 deaths
as a result of their policies.
So I don't think they get to lecture anyone whatsoever
on the risks of taking money from the vulnerable.
And on top of that, I'm glad you were talking to Jeremy Hunt, who is
also a former Health Secretary, I seem to remember, who left us with the
the NHS that was putting a ring of steel around our old people during the Covid
pandemic that was so hard that,
so as to be non -existent. So we ended up with hundreds of thousands, well maybe
not for hundreds of thousands, but thousands of old people being moved into care homes
with Covid and spreading the disease and causing excess deaths, where were the Conservatives
then? Where were their concerns about old people then? Now the fact of the matter is
is that what we're seeing now is the result of 14 plus years of running down of our public
services of the rich getting richer and the poor getting destroyed by the Tory
Party and yes I'm not happy about what Labour are doing as it would appear our
Labour members not happy about what Labour are doing but they're not doing it
in a vacuum they're doing it because of the policies of the Conservatives.
And I mean even bringing up you were going to quote Maggie Thatcher I mean one of her
finest achievements was taking milk away from kids. I mean come on. The Tory party
are and always have been the nasty party so you don't get to throw stones you
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:40:28
were in a glass house. Thank you. Councillor Wimble. I'm not going to make any political comment
Cllr David Wimble - 1:40:34
whatsoever other than say that I actually agree that removing the fuel
benefit from people who live abroad is probably a good thing because it's you
know they're living in Spain why are we paying it but they say it's a benefit
these pensioners are paid in all their lives I don't see it as a benefit I see
it as something they've they paid for their lives so I think by taking it away
is wrong and for that reason I'll be back in this motion
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:41:04
Councillor Lockwood. I'd like I'll make a couple of points first for the record
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 1:41:23
this motion is going to swale District Council tonight so they'll be having
this conversation like we are Merton Borough Council had the same motion last
week so just for the record this is a national campaign not something the
local party is putting forward we're unhappy with some of the language that's
used in this motion we've seen phrases like preventing heat or eat or heat
dilemmas, further exacerbating financial hardship. This is what we've come to
expect from the Tories. Fear, fear -mongering, scare tactics. We saw it in
their election literature and you saw the result in the election. This council
should not associate itself with this kind of language. We're an empathetic
council. We understand the issue that some pensioners on the fringe that are
not claiming the credit do need to be looked after and so we support some of
the elements of this motion but we would like to make two amendments if possible
well just the point of note the the first point and the third point as I
read it unless I'm mistaken say the same thing so whether you remove one of them
or not neither here nor there it has no material effect so if you just leave
that I think this council writing to the Chancellor of the Exchequer at this time
would be highly in unadvisable so I think we should remove that point and we
would propose adding a further point which says work with KCC once details
are released to urgently put in place the system to allow eligible residents
to access help via the Household Support Fund. That has been extended by the
government from the 1st of October 24 to the 31st of March 25. It should be
available now. The last time I checked our website it wasn't available. I don't
I don't know if we can clarify whether that is
incompetency on the part of the Tory led county council
not supplying us with the information we need.
But they were the two amendments I would take out
the need to write to the chancellor.
I think that would be a massive mistake
and to add in the point about,
yes, let's encourage efforts to promote the pension credit
but also let's highlight the availability
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:44:21
of the household support fund. So is that a proposal? Thank you and do you have a
seconder? Councillor Laura Davison. So I believe we're now debating the
amendment. So have we got any councillors who would like to speak on the amended
motion. Councillor Cooper. Thank you chair basically what it is I've
Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:44:46
got a
communication here from the right -hand of all of us Kendall MP who has been
known as the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and she says in this thing
here that's Kent County Council have been given more than 11 ,165 ,380
£80 ATP towards the household support fund. We have officers and staff of this council
who are up, ready and running to go to distribute this money to our hard -pressed pensioners,
families and those who are also short, but the Conservative -controlled Kent County Council
have kept hold of the money. My question to Roger Groff would be what happens to the £11
in pound or is that going to be used to subsidise the cut to disabled people?
I think as a person who used to work and be a specials advisor with citizens advice
I think I could speak with some authority on this matter. Basically what
we ought to know is that when the inter -fuel payments were first brought about
yeah they were brought about as because it was seen as a measure to reduce fuel
poverty. Not to give money to charity, it was supposed to be targeted at those
most in need. Okay? Different options over the years for
reforming of interfuel payments have been suggested, including means testing
the payments that one of the attorneys, linking the payments to existing means
tested benefits such as pension credit for example, and introducing some
mechanisms from withdrawing from higher income pensions or making it even
Those are the options that have been going on in the past.
We've seen the announcement by Rachel Reeves.
There's a £22 billion black oval.
I think this council, if it was to write to Rachel Reeves, wouldn't be able to hide
into nothing.
Because as we can see from Statute Instrument No. 869, the cuts are already low.
So this council writing to Rachel Reeves is going to get no response and it could well
jeopardise what the council wants to do in respect of future funding. What we don't
want to be doing is creating waves when we don't need to. In this area itself I
can advise that 4 ,491 people are in respect of attendance
loans. Someone in the series of attendance loans is going to be at a
pendulum age. They may well be entitled to a payment of pension credits. The
telephone number if anyone's watching or listening to this or you know anyone or
a friend or a family member I would suggest they don't bother with the 25
page form as alleged or to answer 230 odd questions as alleged because 99 % of
that information is not required. The simple way to claim pension credits if
you're a pensioner or know someone who's a pensioner or is of whatever it might
be is you ring 08991234 simple as but let me just tell you is this our own
benefits team here advised me on Monday that there's 2933 people in this
district who were on pension credits that was 600 less than what the government
estimates however as I said with 4 ,491 people that's the additional costs but
as I say, if you are the customer of Octopus Energy you will get £200 anyway
off your electricity bill or your fuel bill and also there is the household
support fund. Now the household support fund has been put in place as I said
there, I've got a thing there from Liz Kendall, which says more than £11 million
has actually been put in and therefore anybody who's going to be
affected by this measure should actually make the application. The council have
a good system in place that awaiting the funds and being held up. Now I don't believe anyway,
as I say in my experience of advising people on various bits and pieces of citizen advice
that no one in this country in this day and age should be forced to either eat or heat
the homes because that is absolute utter nonsense and claptrap. If anyone is above the applicable
amount for pension credits and for those who don't know the figures I will advise
you with the figures. I've got the figures here and basically what the figures say
is this. If you're a single pensioner you should have an income of at least £218 .18p.
If your income is less than that you claim pension credits however if you're
also a pensioner who gets PIP, DLA, attendance loans you get an additional £81 on that
and obviously if you care for someone who's in receipts of one of those
benefits you also get on top of that an additional £46 .60 and if you
pension a couple both in receipts of it you get that amount on top so
don't believe just the single figures and as I say for those reasons among
good things I will not be supporting this motion. Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:49:59
Are you supporting the motion and not the you are supporting the amendment?
I'm supporting the amendment.
of it. It's important to be clear we are debating the amendment at the moment.
Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:50:13
So we're going to be going on to councillor Alan Martin. Thank you chair.
Maybe unsurprisingly I don't feel inclined to support this amendment. I
Cllr Alan Martin - 1:50:21
have to have to say I'm slightly baffled by councillor Cooper and Lockwood. They
they don't feel inclined to send a letter to their Chancellor but don't
actually give a reason why that is. And I can only assume that it's they'd rather turn
their backs on the local residents than stand up to the leadership of the Labour Party.
I'm not going to speak to the ludicrous 22 billion because Jenny's already spoken to
that. I want to take you through some of my own thoughts on this. Means testing is far
too blunt at all when dealing with vulnerable elderly people. In my
professional career I've worked with insurers, the Department of Health and
the Cabinet Office to look at the reasons why elderly people become frail,
unwell and die. An otherwise healthy person can quickly deteriorate following
an accident or during periods of hot and cold weather. There are a large group of
people who have saved all their life, secured a house for their family and now live on their
own and concerned by the cost of food and heating when the cold weather comes they don't
respond, they don't turn up the heating and this unfortunately is the start of the end.
People exist in that grey area around any means testing limit that you set and they're
proud of having looked after themselves their whole life, looking after their family, saving
for a rainy day and there's always that concern, that bit of guilt that if they claim for something
there will always be someone worse off than themselves and that holds them back from stepping
forward and claiming some of these benefits. So the value of the non -means tested benefit
is that it cuts through all of that emotion. Everybody gets it. It saves lives. Locally,
we've seen huge demand in recent years on organisations such as the Romney Marsh
community hub during the winter months. In some of the parish councils on the
marsh I know we've tried to make funds available to people to support them with
fuel costs. These are sometimes well received but sadly many people don't
step forward even though they have need to claim the support that they're
duly welcome to for all the reasons that I've mentioned and this is the
reason why we have to fight this decision and get it reversed and in the
meantime I urge us as a council across all parties to do whatever we can to
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:53:06
limit the damage done locally. Thank you and we have Councillor David Godfrey.
Thank you.
Cllr Alan Martin - 1:53:10
Thank you.
And it's actually said it all.
Cllr David Godfrey - 1:53:14
It's not surprising that what we've heard tonight is the usual resorting to political rhetoric,
blame all the others, rather than face up to the fact that this is just basically wrong.
And it's wrong, doubly wrong, because unfortunately not the government's fault.
The energy cap has now been increased by 10%, which increases the pain on those pensioners that are going to lose this money.
so I think political rhetoric and obfuscation and and a lot of
filibustering is just trying to divert the fact that this is blatantly wrong
and the whole country feels it's blatantly wrong which is why so many
motions are going in at council saying don't do it thank you
thank you councillor Holgate
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:53:57
Cllr Rich Holgate - 1:54:01
oh sat down for a long time good evening I'd like to think that generally it
the fact that there is alignment in this chamber that taking away
financial support from pensioners in great need is a
concerning move by the government.
The 2019 census said there is around 30 ,000 pensioners, 30 ,000
65 and over, Council of Holland VU named it about 24 ,500. It is
a lot of people. I am not interested in the point
scoring and finger pointing that is being played out both here
in Westminster. It doesn't help those who are now no longer being supported with
heating costs this winter. Like many others in the country I was delighted to
see the general election results and felt optimistic about change however in
my opinion there's nothing short disappointing to see just four months in
we continue to be blighted with hypocrisy self -help preservation and a
squeeze on those in society who are in most need. I'm lucky enough to represent
a party that has no whip. I'm therefore allowed to have an independent thought
without fear of retribution or consequence.
Imagine that.
For me, I see this issue as a moral one.
25 ,000 people in this district.
I understand the need for Labour to put such an amendment in.
Sadly, the theater of politics demands that you do.
But fundamentally, I do not agree with the government
policy on this.
It is too much too quick, and there
will be too many pensioners in this district who will
be worse off as a result.
My opinion, the amendment dilutes
the strength of response available to this policy. For example, if we do collectively
agree that the impact on elderly residents we have been elected to represent, we should
not be afraid to tell the Chancellor as such. I'm not a politician, or at least I'm not
a very good one. I don't care for the colour of your lanyard. I care about the residents
of this district and ensuring that they are represented to the best of my abilities. I
therefore suggest that you do take a look at this, not through blue, red, green or yellow
glasses or independent but objectively as a district councillor. Councillor
Hollisby I disagree with you on most things I think the party you represent
has caused irreparable damage and sustain on our society but I do agree
with your original motion and the response that the council should make I
don't believe the amendment is necessary.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:56:12
Cllr Gary Fuller - 1:56:16
Councillor Fuller. Thank you chair I was actually quite interested in what
the dangers of making benefits means tested because we already have a number of means
tested benefits in this country, universal credit, pension credit, housing benefit, council
tax support, tax credits before they were phased out, income support, job seekers allowance,
employment and support allowance. I'd love to see the end of means tested benefit. Personally,
I'd actually prefer a universal basic income. That's not party policy, that's
just me personally. I think that's what we actually need to move towards. I don't
think we should penalise anyone for being part of a vulnerable group. I don't
think we should make it harder for them to receive support, but I'm also
aware that we we are where we are and that we didn't get to this situation
without the the events that preceded it. I'll be honest I'm a bit disappointed
with the new Labour government I was hoping they would be much more radical
I'm also keenly aware that the Blair government wasn't particularly radical
in its first two years but what it did do was it actually put the public sector
front and centre which is exactly what the, I'm sad to say the coalition and
indeed the Conservative government after it didn't do. So it's with a heavy heart
that I will support the amendment but I would ask that all parties really
consider that there is never just one group of people that are being targeted
or being hurt by a particular sort of policy or a set of policies and we've
unfortunately had decades of very vulnerable people in our society
suffering and we need to recognize that across all groups not just the group
are affected by this particular policy and I would actually urge that if we are
going to start writing to government that we start writing about all of the
the wrongs that preceded this particular policy. That we look at disabled people,
that we look at young people that get less benefits than people that are of a
certain age, that we look at elderly people, that we look at people that are
unemployed through no fault of their own, have also contributed to the
to the system from which they need to take,
yet are treated as if they're pariahs
for the bad luck of having lost their job.
And even people who come to the country seeking succor
from having come from war zones and so on,
that we are currently at the moment,
some politicians are excited to send them on planes
as quickly as possible.
I think we need a complete rethink.
So yes, I'll be supporting the amendment and yes, I'll be supporting the amended
motion but this is just tinkering around the edges at the end of the day and we
need to do more across the whole gamut of people that need our help. Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:59:40
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:59:45
Councillor Thomas. Thank you, Chair. Well you won't get a political view from me,
you'll get a very practical view. When I read the resolution I was going to
propose tonight that we did an amendment because I thought it was too narrow just
focusing on pension credit and I'd also picked up on the fact that the household
fund had been increased. The announcement was made on the 2nd of September to
operate from the 1st of October through to March next year and that £421 million
was going to be available so it was our share and Councillor Tony
Cooper has made that clear to us tonight. So I think the modification to
certainly the first bullet point to say the council -led awareness campaign for
eligible additional financial support to mitigate the effects of the loss of the
winter fuel payment is where we're heading. In terms of not writing to the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, I can't support that side of it. I would
say I would prefer to write to as many people as we possibly can to make sure
people know where our particular position is.
I think just on the local front, and local residents
will be aware of this, New Romneytown Council has actually
provided additional financial support to the Romney Marsh
Community Hub for the last two years,
specifically to support local residents,
and specifically to address the energy shortfall.
But more than that, to make sure that they're
provided with a warm space.
They've got places to go, and they've got people to see over
them to make sure that they're okay and I'm sure New Romney Town Council will
continue to provide that level of support as well. We shouldn't have to but
the situation is that that's where we'll be so I can't say that we will but it's
something that we will certainly consider. So I'm a bit drawn on this
because changing the first bullet point and making it a bit wider than just the
pension credit fund and bringing in the household support fund makes perfect
sense but in terms of not writing to the Chancellor that I can't support that
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:01:47
part of it. Thank you chair. Thank you. Councillor Hills. Thank you.
Cllr Tony Hills - 2:01:51
It's a bit
sad in a way. Party politics, Punch and Judy, here we go again. All that's
happened is the Labour Party's got into power and they realise it's not easy.
Government is very hard and they've learnt that in double quick time and I'm
blaming them per se, they won the election and they're there for five
years. But at the end of the day, doing this was a mistake. It was a mistake for so
many reasons, sending out so many negative feelings and messages. All I'm
worried about is my community on the Marsh. All I've ever worried about really
is my community on the Marsh. I have a lot of elderly people, they might be land
rich, they might have a house, but they don't have any income outside the
pension. And those people will starve or cut the heat down. They will do that sort of thing
because they're strong -minded but elderly people. We have a marvelous thing with the
Robin Marsh Hub that really came to our help in the pandemic. It was great. And that's
what we need. Community effort, community support, that's what we need. It's tough out
there.
Those elderly people can't afford computers,
haven't got smartphones.
They can't go online and fill out 25 ,000 pages of forms
or whatever.
They can't do that.
They can go to the hub and get help,
but not all of them can get to the hub
or afford the same pound taxi fare.
So it's a difficult time.
And all I'm saying is they shouldn't have hit
our local community old folks.
They could put it personally.
I think they could put it into the pension itself.
So at the high level, it's taxed.
That way, that's fine.
If you don't need it, you're taxed on it.
If you haven't got more income, that's fine.
But just to take it away like that,
because you had to get it in quick
so it could come into law quick, so it
can apply from this grid.
It's callous.
It is really callous, and it's sad.
And I'm not anti -laborer, per se, or an anti -liberal Democrat,
or Angie Green.
It's just we are a community.
We are working for our community.
And I think I support the motion, the original motion.
I don't want to tamper with it because it
shows that people are upset.
I hope that labor learns by these lessons.
I really do.
We've got them for the next five years.
I want them to be a success in a strange way.
I want them to be a success because if they're not,
our whole country is in trouble.
I had a long meeting on Friday with Tony Cooper and our MP, our new MP, very nice
chap, wants to do well, learning fast and that's great but at the end of the day
I'm more interested in what can he do for my community. Will he support my community?
He voted for the cutting of winter fuel allowance which is sad because it's
basically it's basically not for this community first and every MP should put
his community first and every council should put his community first that's why we're
here not to play bloody party politics that's that's pointless doesn't help
anybody we want to find the best ways so I agree with Paul sorry I agree to say
that we should write to him and we can tell him we can we're not happy we should
just say that and say why I think it's a shame we end up with punch and Judy
politics listen some pointing thank you and we're going to move to
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:05:32
councillor butcher and Thank You chair I'm going to be abstaining and
Cllr James Butcher - 2:05:38
just feel
really frustrated we've heard people talk about political theatre punch and
Judy we shouldn't be playing party politics but we've got a motion and
We have had questions earlier that seemed absolutely designed
to bring about political theatre, Punch and Judy,
and playing party politics.
And it feels not a very good use of our time,
or indeed residents' time, to be listening in
on a political debate about government policy
over which we have no influence, no control.
Absolutely an awareness campaign,
but it feels to me this whole meeting is being used
as a way to cause discomfort one party to another.
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:06:21
and I don't think that's a good use of our time. Thank you. Councillor Goddard.
Cllr Clive Goddard - 2:06:27
Thank you, Chair. I won't labour the point because obviously it's all been said by
my fine colleague, Councillor Martin and even Councillor Holgate apart from your
last paragraph obviously. So, you know, Councillor Wimble even come up with
these elderly residents, you know, people have paid in the system all
their life and they're just getting a small bit back in 300 pound in winter fuel allowance.
Obviously it's tough to take. The means tested, I think Councillor Martin
mentioned that about people being means tested and don't want to be means tested because
of the isolation about it, et cetera, et cetera, and people are too proud. This way, the old
way was everybody got it and there was none of that so obviously I can't
support the amendment hopefully you know we can go back to our original one and
like it's been touched on that's right to everyone more than Mary I love
writing letters you know this this this right to everybody within the government
within the cabinet with any power you know we get it all the time so they
says this at that and like Councillor Thomas said go with that idea so I can't
support the amendment and hopefully we go back to our proposal. Thank you
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:07:47
Cllr Laura Davison - 2:07:53
Councillor Laura Davison. Thank you I mean I do think that these issues are
political and I don't disagree with points that have been made this evening
and around taking lessons on dealing with good financial decision -making or
tackling poverty. It does feel as though the motion has been brought as a rather
crude national campaign to try to divide people and I think we should resist that
because I don't think that is how we want our community to be and we are here
to try to bring people together. So as we have discussed in other motions that
have been brought previously where they're divisive we should try and
that and find ways to come together, I think we all support the idea of ensuring that people
are accessing benefits to which they are entitled and doing all the things that we can through
the channels that we have to enhance people's ability to take up pension credit. The purpose
of the motion is to bring clarity to that and to suggest other practical and effective
steps that we can take to do that. So I hope that we can support the amendment
in order that we can all come together and support the motion as amended. Thanks.
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:09:14
Thank you and councillor Mike Blakemore.
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 2:09:19
Something has been made of community and as I have community in my portfolio and
I just want to say I'm very proud of what this council does for the community
it serves. This morning I was, as was Councillor Walker, attended a meeting of
the District Food Network which provides food for people who can't afford, who
really do have to make that choice between heating and eating. We also heard
at that meeting that again a share of the UK Prosperity Fund, slightly
ironically named fund, is going to go to warm spaces at the three community hubs
and at Sunflower House and at the Folkestone Nepalese Community Centre. But the very
fact that we have to do this is such an indictment of what has gone before for
the last 14 years and like Councillor Fuller I share his anger at us being
lectured on where we are now. I share his bewilderment at Councillor Alan Martin
bemoaning means testing of benefits when certain groups of people under the last
government were means tested to within an inch of their lives and certain
groups, certain vulnerable groups. So I am also very worried about the
implication of what the Labour government are doing and I wish they
weren't doing it. I understand the reasons why they're doing it but I'm not
happy about it. I'll support this amendment but I'll do so like Councillor
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:10:43
Fuller with a very heavy heart. Thank you and if we have nobody else who would
like to speak on this, oh we have but we will come to you in a moment Jenny
because you can sum up that part on the amendment.
But for the moment, we're going to hear from Councillor Walker.
This is just something quite brief.
Cllr Belinda Walker - 2:10:59
I've listened to a lot of my colleagues
saying about how we should be working together
as a community, and indeed we should.
I come to this speaking really as an ex -NHS employee,
26, 27 years of working with older people
with a variety of neurological illnesses.
I understand this demographic.
I understand, maybe because I'm approaching it myself now,
but the reluctance to take the pride in not having taken
any benefits to which they're entitled the whole lives,
the whole thing about being self -sufficient.
And this sense of, I understand that, I get that.
We so often had in the NHS people
who would not take the benefits entitled to with the carers'
allowance and such like.
They would say, we'd rather cope on our own.
Once you explain to people this is something
to which they're entitled.
it's something which as members of society, more vulnerable members, they are entitled, they do take
it up. And again just reiterating what my colleagues about, I worked through COVID, it's still quite
emotionally to talk through having worked through COVID and seeing patients I've known for years die
unnecessarily, colleagues every day went through Twitter, there were colleagues I knew who had died,
former colleagues look through names this person NHS family hashtag and at
that person out of that person it was constant go but was extremely badly
handled I'm sure that the labor agree or lived and govern maybe would have
handled it handle it better no doubt but also would have made mistakes but just
the same coming at this from an NHS point of view point and part of the
community and I will be supporting the amendment
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:12:38
Thank you. Councillor Jim Martin. Thank you, Chair. Just really a
Cllr Jim Martin - 2:12:44
point of clarity. I will
be attending the Kent Leaders Forum on the 16th of October when Roger Gough, the leader
of Kent County Council, will be doing a presentation on household support fund. So I suspect that
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:13:06
will be rolled out after that. Thank you for that clarification. Now
Councillor Mrs. Jenny Hollingsby has the right of reply to the amendment.
Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee - 2:13:16
Right thank you. I've forgotten about that. Right I was just going to mention the
household support fund I assumed it would come down to to the district but
on that again you have to be referred by an agency usually or it has to be in in
dire need right I think I think that's the case if I'm wrong I am wrong yeah
you'll let me know but I'm sure it has to be some kind of recommendation from
from an agency or somebody else.
Well, I'm actually disappointed, I suppose,
in that I didn't intend making this political,
but a lot of political comments have come forward.
This is not a political motion.
It's not intended to be a political motion.
It's just a motion to say that we do not
agree with our pensioners actually having the fuel allowance taken away from them.
It wasn't as though you've got any kind of notice, it was straight away.
And that just can't be right.
And so obviously I can't support the amendment.
And actually, what good does that do?
we want the Chancellor to know how concerned and how disappointed we are
that they feel that this is necessary to help them with their finances. It's not
necessary. You know we are talking about one point, whatever it was, 1 .4 billion
which in terms of government spending and government income is quite a small
amount so why on earth take funding away from our pensioners it just can't be
right and I really hope that you will not vote for this amendment and that we
can go back to the main motion and vote for that. Thank you. Thank you
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:15:30
so I
believe we're going to a vote on the amendment do we need to read the
amendment out so people are clear on what they're voting on would you be able
Susan Priest - 2:15:46
to do that thank you hopefully this this is this is correct to help members and
so the proposal as I understand it the amendment was the deletion of the second
bullet point which was starting with requests that the council leader right
to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. It was deletion of that whole bullet point
and the insertion of a new bullet point that reads work with KCC once details
are released to urgently put in place the system to allow eligible residents
to access help by the Household Support Fund that's been extended by the
government from 1st of October to the 1st of March. Can I just check Councillor
lot with that is correct thank you thank you so we'll take that to the
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:16:31
vote so
can we have those in favor of the amendment
and those against the amendment
and anybody abstaining
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:17:05
so we have an 11 who voted in favor of the amendment there are eight against
and five abstained so the amendment carries and that becomes the
substantive motion so so it's reopen for debate so Councillor Prater thank you
I've got some sympathy for the Chancellor to be honest I've had fairly
Cllr Tim Prater - 2:17:40
recent personal experience of having to deal with a huge projected financial
deficit left by an unpopular and routed conservative administration. So I know
how hard that is and the difficult choices that you need to face and I
don't doubt the mountain that Rachel Reeves is trying to find. Because at
least when we took over this administration the scale of the
financial challenge was mainly known even if it was terrifying. The mountain
facing this government seems to keep growing as more things get found each
time you climb another part of the mountain. Also when you are looking at the saving that
they are looking at making, I am old enough to remember when £1 .4 billion was a lot of
money. But where I do sympathise with this motion is that while targeting winter fuel
payments are those who most need it, I think is reasonable, there are many more people
than just those on pension credits that actually need it. Living on a full state pension puts
you outside pension credit but in no way makes you comfortably off. However what
we can do locally is in redoubling our efforts around encouraging people to
sign up for pension credits and we already are and we were before Councillor
Hollingsby's motion hit the email. Like Councillor Hollingsby you'll have seen
press releases, website stories, Facebook posts and more in the last week
encouraging people to sign up for pension credits. Over 200 people that the welfare
team have identified as being likely to be eligible for pension credits but are currently
not claiming them, the welfare team are in the process of contacting directly now. And
we've used the residue of the last round of Household Support Fund to give a £150 supermarket
voucher to 217 pensioner households previously in receipt of HSF so that we've put money
directly now in their pocket. And as soon as we know how much our district will get
from the County Council in round five of the Household Support Fund, as has been mentioned
the County Council know how much they're getting but we don't know how much we're getting of
that from the County Council yet, as soon as we know that we'll open it as quickly as
we can as we have with every other round and yes you can apply directly and no
you do not have to be referred for that. We actually don't need a motion
asking our welfare team to support local people with everything they've got. It's
what they do year in and year out. As a quick plug that's why they've been
nominated again for four awards at this year's IRRV awards which is one of
only two councils nationally to get as many as four nominations but actually I
do welcome the additional recognition that this motion gives to the team and the additional
publicity that this motion will give to the issue. Because it gives an opportunity to
send a direct message and I'll ask everyone here to take this back to every local resident
in your areas this evening. If you can apply for pension credits, don't be scared of the
form. Please do it and do it now. But also for the Conservatives to complain about cuts
at this moment is pretty breathtaking.
To crash the car while driving recklessly is one thing.
To then complain that the car isn't working
and the repairs are expensive is a whole new world
of hypocrisy, Jenny.
Of course the government should revisit their decision
on when to fill payments.
Of course they should reconsider the impact
on those outside the pension credit threshold
but who are not well off.
But I'm afraid that's above my pay grade,
and it's above the pay grade of people who can write a letter.
I do hope that our Labour colleagues on the other hand will have success making
that point within government before the budget. So I'm going to back the motion
that's been amended. But I'll back our area's pensioners first. What we're doing
and what we will continue to do locally is to do anything that we can to ensure
that as many people who are still entitled to support can get it. So I
support the amendment because we're doing it already. We will tell people in
many ways as we can to apply for pension credit and to do it now and that will
get them that winter fuel payment. So if you're eligible for pension credits
wherever that's the camera is please apply for them and I'll vote for the
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:22:04
motion. Do we have any other councillors who would like to speak? So we can go
back to Jenny again. Thank you, Mr. Jenny, Councillor Jenny
Cllr Mrs Jennifer Hollingsbee - 2:22:21
Heningstine. Well, to say I'm disappointed is very
disappointed. I, you know, all we were asking is that we write a letter to the
Chancellor asking him to reconsider like a lot of... and I'm going to make this...
She, sorry. Well I'm thinking of...
And I'm gonna, oh no you've made me lose my train of thought.
That's really all we were asking you to do. And it's quite, I think it'd be quite sad
for people out there to see that we, our councillors, have decided that it's
irrelevant to write to the Chancellor. It's irrelevant to ask the Chancellor
who made the decision to reconsider. It's, well it's quite unbelievable to me. I
mean we will support the motion as it stands now because that that's what
We're here to do.
We're here to support our pensioners.
But I have to say, it's with a really heavy heart,
because working with KCC at the moment
will not be an easy task.
We don't know how much money is coming down to us.
I mean, yes, a household fund will be helpful.
It always has been.
And it's been a good addition.
introduced by the previous government I might add but I'm probably lost for
words really I really thought that you would all be willing to support a letter
to the Chancellor but obviously you're not we will support the the amended
motion only because we are supporting our pensioners I think that's all I've
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:24:27
to say thank you thank you and so we're going to take it to the vote again so
those in favor of supporting the motion in in its sort of stant of state so all
in favor
and those against and any abstentions
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:25:02
thank you so we have 20 who voted in favor we had nobody vote against and we
had four people who were sustained. So the motion carries. Thank you everyone.
So moving on to item 12 we've got the regulation of investigatory powers act

12 Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 - Policy

2000 policy. Do we have somebody who's going to propose this? I think it's
Councillor Fuller. It is, thank you chair. So basically we have to have this policy
Cllr Gary Fuller - 2:25:37
and it outlines how we're going to apply the regulation of the Investigator E
Powers Act 2000 and the Investigator E Powers Act 2016, which gives us powers to
carry out covert surveillance under certain circumstances. Among other things,
the policy itself basically outlines how we're going to make sure we act
lawfully and proportionately and it details the roles and responsibilities
involved in sort of performing our duties under the Act and gives us, it outlines our
legal framework for doing what we do. That said, this is not a policy we've had
to use in anger for a long time as it were, it's not something we routinely do
or do currently at all and indeed the policy as updated there are no
substantive changes to it. Therefore it's very much a we're in a holding pattern
saying we have this policy we're probably not going to need to use it
but we need to make sure that it's fit for purpose. I'm happy to provide. Thank
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:26:45
you and do you have a seconder? Councillor Prater and do you would you like to add
Cllr Tim Prater - 2:26:52
anything? Only very briefly to say that there are two different parts of the of
We have been using the
Council for 13 years and one of which has never been used by
this Council.
This is a very limited use power to the extent that it has not
been
done in the lifetime of most of the people in this chamber.
In the Council lifetime of most of the people in this chamber.
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:27:16
Thank you. This is now open for debate.
If anybody would like to comment or ask any questions.
can move to the vote if nobody has anything to say on this so those in
favor I think that's unanimous yeah thank you so that takes us to the end of
our meeting I'd like to thank the officers again for organizing this
meeting at Marsh Academy I'd like to thank the school for letting us use
their theater their wonderful theater and I'd like to thank the members of the
public for coming and joining our meeting. It's been lovely to meet you all
and particularly to the the Mayor of New Romney and the Deputy Mayor who joined
us this evening, so thank you very much and also thank you to all the
councillors who obviously had to make their way from different parts of the
district over to here, so really lovely to to have our meeting here this evening
and thank you and I hope you all have a nice evening.