Personnel Committee - Thursday 10 October 2024, 10:00am - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Personnel Committee
Thursday, 10th October 2024 at 10:00am 

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  1. Cllr Connor McConville
  2. Mr Jake Hamilton
  3. Cllr Connor McConville
  4. Cllr Nicola Keen
Share this agenda point
Share this agenda point
  1. Dr Susan Priest
  2. Cllr Connor McConville
  3. Cllr Tim Prater
  4. Cllr Connor McConville
  5. Cllr Elaine Martin
  6. Dr Susan Priest
  7. Cllr Connor McConville
  8. Cllr Nicola Keen
  9. Dr Susan Priest
  10. Cllr Nicola Keen
  11. Cllr Connor McConville
  12. Dr Susan Priest
  13. Cllr Connor McConville
  14. Cllr Jim Martin
  15. Cllr Connor McConville
  16. Ms Andrina Smith
  17. Cllr Connor McConville
  18. Cllr Jim Martin
  19. Cllr Connor McConville
  20. Webcast Finished
Slide selection

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:00:08
Good morning everyone and welcome to this meeting of the Public Committee.
This meeting will be webcast live to the internet.
For those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed, you will need to leave the chamber.
For members, officers and others speaking at the meeting, it is important to use the
microphones so viewers can be broadcast and others in the room may hear you.
But anyone with a mobile phone, please switch it to...
...distracting.
And I'd like to remind all members that although we have strong opinions
on matters under consideration, it is important to treat members...
...and members of the public with respect.
Thank you and thank you for attending this additional meeting
of the Personnel Committee.
Item number one, apologies for absence, Jake.
Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:00:56
Thank you, Chair. We have apologies from Councillors Holgate
and Holland Bay, we have Councillors Jim Martin and Godfrey Webster -Cheats.
Thank you very much.
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:01:04
Item number two, declarations of interest.
Do any members have anything they wish to declare?
Councillor Keene.

1 Apologies for Absence

Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:01:12
I'd like to declare that I'm a member of Unison, branch officer,

2 Declarations of Interest

of the Sissone Unison, a union that is in the district.
Thank you very much. Any other members?

3 Senior Management Capacity

And then we move on to the single main item of this morning's meeting.
Item number three, senior management capacity.
And I'm going to ask Susan to introduce.
Okay, morning.
Thank you, Chair.
And morning members, for joining us for this special committee meeting.
The paper before you is an update on the senior management of the Council.
In essence, I'm seeking the committee's approval to recruit the director of finance, which
Dr Susan Priest - 0:01:59
would carry with it the section 151 function.
It was a statutory requirement.
Last year, actually, beginning of last year,
a director of corporate services that carried the 151 role resigned and left,
and at that point, I came to committee to figure out
moving from a three director structure to a two director structure and members pushed me quite hard at that point
about what was my secret. We were facing quite a significant budget challenge at that time and so my advice to the committee
was that whilst that was not ideal it was something that I thought I should try because I had been in resignation at that
And we were supportive and we moved to the position that we've currently got of Director
for Operations and Housing and Director of Strategy and that's working extremely well.
We're able to report that to committee.
My reflection has been this council has quite a significant agenda and that I think is due
to continue not least because £120 million per annum that the council manages in terms
of council tax, billing and business rates. Of course we are the precepting authority
we collect for the full precepting authority,
we have funds under management each year
in the order of about 120 million of course,
about 70 million of that is PCC,
and there's a lot of money that goes off
their balance, et cetera, et cetera.
So even though our net services budget is far reduced
in terms of, I'm only talking around to this,
the significance of the council's finance section
is something that I'm very acutely aware of,
layered on top of course with Osprey Park
and the council's significant investment into that
adds another dimension.
So reflections, having taken some time,
is that I think it is in the council's best interest
to recruit a permanent director of finance.
And of course committee plays a very, very significant role
in the process, it's an appointment made
by the council on your recommendation.
So there's process involved and some members
of this committee have of course worked with me
in the appointment of the other directors
for which I was very grateful.
So the recommendations before you are really that one,
but it's also then to note that the expertise
on Otterfield Park will continue to be considered
with recommendations returning to conditions as necessary.
That activity at the moment is being covered
by our interim 151 officer, who you agreed
could be contracted through to 31st of December
with an option for an extension of the
of the contract as necessary.
So at this point, well at the point at which
I was writing the paper, I felt that it was appropriate
to say that I'd like to return once we've considered that.
So I think, members, that in essence covers the essence of the paper, more in there about
timelines and next steps.
I'm very grateful for the portfolio holder for finance being invited by the Chair to
address committee members if there are any points that members have to come to.
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:05:57
Thanks for that introduction.
Councillor Prater, did you want to come in at the minute and just make your case?
Thank you.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:06:12
We're all guided by the Chief Executive in Staffing Matters, youth Head of Aid Service,
and we are not.
There are some of those positions which are statutory that are our responsibility to set
but obviously we take those under guidance appropriately.
I just wanted to be very clear that Susan is leading this process, which is important.
At every stage of your course, going through this over the course of the last eight years,
we've been step by step going through and trying to make the position that we've got to work
and be a full time solution.
That's the key thing here. We've got an interim S151
and Lydia has big strengths
and she's got a pencil
but we need a full time solution and we need a solution which is going to
allow us to look forward because some of our projects are forward looking.
When you look at the likes of Otterpool, that's a half billion pound project
over the course of the next 30 years.
there are some big numbers there and getting the detail on that right is crucial.
...how this Council's finances have been held for a few years.
So I'm entirely supportive of where this paper is trying to go.
In terms of that I think that gives us a 151 Officer.
Although we hoped to have done it a different way.
Sometimes you try things and they don't quite work the way you hoped they would.
and this is one of them.
So this is 151 back onto the CMT, the management team.
I think it will add additional strength to the organisation,
additional resilience, it will allow the finance team to be developed,
to be resilient in themselves as well.
More success in the future.
and so yeah, so that and the consequential changes in order to make sure that again I've
been talked through and I'm very supportive of the approach being taken and how it's been
ended.
So I want to say that you may well end up having to throw me out in a minute because
I'm going to go into each session but I just wanted to make sure that it was on camera
that I support where this is going.
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:08:40
Thank you Councillor Prita.
And I'll open it up to some questions from, I think Elaine just pictured there.
Councillor Egan.
Hi, thank you for the report.
Cllr Elaine Martin - 0:08:56
I was just wondering, would the engineering officer be prepared to stay on should she
for the six months or however long.
Thank you.
Dr Susan Priest - 0:09:14
My understanding is yes, there could be an extension
beyond 30 of us to do summer
under the contractual arrangements
and the permissions that a personnel committee
have given me, so my understanding is
that there would be a willingness to do so.
So three day a week,
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:09:39
Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:09:44
I was always in favour of keeping a 151 officer, that was one of my questions. A 151 officer
attracts a high salary and can we get a full salary because I know several councillors
that do get very fed up with we can't afford this and we can't afford that for our residents.
But, they told to us that this could work.
My biggest concern is the cost.
I don't really know how, we couldn't afford it then,
and we're not in the back position now,
but now we're gonna have one when we got an interim one.
Could this not wait till we're in the back position?
Because people are not getting the services they should.
So I'm not against, but I'd like those questions answered, please.
And I'd like to take questions.
Dr Susan Priest - 0:10:38
So I take your point absolutely and I did recall sitting here saying it's not ideal
and I do remember the strength of your feeling at that time.
But at that point of course we were facing the 4 .2 projected MTFS footprint year.
So that is obviously work that we managed to get back to about the 85 ,000 of last year.
So in terms of affordability and costs, in paragraph 1, the final sentence of bold 1,
So this is on page six of your PACS members, paragraph two and one, Director of Finance.
Necessary funding for the role will be found from staffing budget reallocated from the
I don't understand that Susan but what I'm saying is that we've got to make other redundancies
Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:11:53
because we haven't got money for that post office. They're not going to come and keep.
And I'm worried that we'll lose other services on the back of this.
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:12:08
Did you want to come back or?
Dr Susan Priest - 0:12:11
Well understood and there's a lot more that possibly could be said but possibly not in
open session.
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:12:20
Councillor Martin.
Thank you very much Chair.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:12:24
Yeah there's two things in that paragraph that you referred to.
Two point one.
The other thing is committee is also asked to consider at this stage if there is a
a shared resourcing arrangement with a neighbouring authority.
I think appetite or no appetite, we're going to have to consider this.
My neighbours are in a similar position.
We are all under the kosh financially and sharing resources
is something that even if we prefer not to,
we may have to at least explore it,
grasp that level.
The other thing, the necessary funding
for the role found in the budget really allocated,
I think that will necessarily mean
the discussion of individuals,
so individual roles in individual people,
And for that, can I suggest that we go into a closed session?
So I have a kind of open and frank discussion about this.
I propose that we go into a closed session
so we can have an honest exchange on this.
Yeah, thank you.
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:13:51
Just for the...
Do we have a...
I would normally read something out to go into a closed session
Ms Andrina Smith - 0:14:02
with the proper reason. So it would be to give the following license of business on
the grounds that it is likely to disclose exempt information as defined in paragraph
one and two of part one of schedule eight to the local government act nineteen center
two and that's information relating to an individual and information which is likely
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:14:24
I'm happy to believe I've just read that out to save 30 seconds.
Okay, so with that reason, Councillor Martin, under your proposal.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:14:36
Because we're talking about individual posts that are occupying individuals, we're necessarily
going to have to talk about those individuals.
Okay.
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:14:49
So, proposed by Councillor Martin, seconded by Councillor King to turn the session.
All in favour?
Okay then.
If I ask Councillor Prater, thank you, and to leave the room and if we can turn off the
recording.
So, come up here.