Personnel Committee

Personnel Committee
Thursday, 10th October 2024 at 10:00am

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Slide 1
Cllr Connor McConville
Mr Jake Hamilton
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Nicola Keen

2 Declarations of Interest

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Declarations of Interest

3 Senior Management Capacity

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Report - Senior Management Capacity - Oct 24 FV

Dr Susan Priest
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Tim Prater
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Elaine Martin
Dr Susan Priest
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Nicola Keen
Dr Susan Priest
Cllr Nicola Keen
Cllr Connor McConville
Dr Susan Priest
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Connor McConville
Ms Andrina Smith
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Connor McConville
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Disclaimer: This transcript was automatically generated, so it may contain errors. Please view the webcast to confirm whether the content is accurate.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:00:08

Good morning everyone and welcome to this meeting of the Public Committee.

This meeting will be webcast live to the internet.

For those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed, you will need to leave the chamber.

For members, officers and others speaking at the meeting, it is important to use the

microphones so viewers can be broadcast and others in the room may hear you.

But anyone with a mobile phone, please switch it to...

...distracting.

And I'd like to remind all members that although we have strong opinions

on matters under consideration, it is important to treat members...

...and members of the public with respect.

Thank you and thank you for attending this additional meeting

of the Personnel Committee.

Item number one, apologies for absence, Jake.

Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:00:56

Thank you, Chair. We have apologies from Councillors Holgate

and Holland Bay, we have Councillors Jim Martin and Godfrey Webster -Cheats.

Thank you very much.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:01:04

Item number two, declarations of interest.

Do any members have anything they wish to declare?

Councillor Keene.

1 Apologies for Absence

Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:01:12

I'd like to declare that I'm a member of Unison, branch officer,

2 Declarations of Interest

of the Sissone Unison, a union that is in the district.

Thank you very much. Any other members?

3 Senior Management Capacity

And then we move on to the single main item of this morning's meeting.

Item number three, senior management capacity.

And I'm going to ask Susan to introduce.

Okay, morning.

Thank you, Chair.

And morning members, for joining us for this special committee meeting.

The paper before you is an update on the senior management of the Council.

In essence, I'm seeking the committee's approval to recruit the director of finance, which

Dr Susan Priest - 0:01:59

would carry with it the section 151 function.

It was a statutory requirement.

Last year, actually, beginning of last year,

a director of corporate services that carried the 151 role resigned and left,

and at that point, I came to committee to figure out

moving from a three director structure to a two director structure and members pushed me quite hard at that point

about what was my secret. We were facing quite a significant budget challenge at that time and so my advice to the committee

was that whilst that was not ideal it was something that I thought I should try because I had been in resignation at that

And we were supportive and we moved to the position that we've currently got of Director

for Operations and Housing and Director of Strategy and that's working extremely well.

We're able to report that to committee.

My reflection has been this council has quite a significant agenda and that I think is due

to continue not least because £120 million per annum that the council manages in terms

of council tax, billing and business rates. Of course we are the precepting authority

we collect for the full precepting authority,

we have funds under management each year

in the order of about 120 million of course,

about 70 million of that is PCC,

and there's a lot of money that goes off

their balance, et cetera, et cetera.

So even though our net services budget is far reduced

in terms of, I'm only talking around to this,

the significance of the council's finance section

is something that I'm very acutely aware of,

layered on top of course with Osprey Park

and the council's significant investment into that

adds another dimension.

So reflections, having taken some time,

is that I think it is in the council's best interest

to recruit a permanent director of finance.

And of course committee plays a very, very significant role

in the process, it's an appointment made

by the council on your recommendation.

So there's process involved and some members

of this committee have of course worked with me

in the appointment of the other directors

for which I was very grateful.

So the recommendations before you are really that one,

but it's also then to note that the expertise

on Otterfield Park will continue to be considered

with recommendations returning to conditions as necessary.

That activity at the moment is being covered

by our interim 151 officer, who you agreed

could be contracted through to 31st of December

with an option for an extension of the

of the contract as necessary.

So at this point, well at the point at which

I was writing the paper, I felt that it was appropriate

to say that I'd like to return once we've considered that.

So I think, members, that in essence covers the essence of the paper, more in there about

timelines and next steps.

I'm very grateful for the portfolio holder for finance being invited by the Chair to

address committee members if there are any points that members have to come to.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:05:57

Thanks for that introduction.

Councillor Prater, did you want to come in at the minute and just make your case?

Thank you.

Cllr Tim Prater - 0:06:12

We're all guided by the Chief Executive in Staffing Matters, youth Head of Aid Service,

and we are not.

There are some of those positions which are statutory that are our responsibility to set

but obviously we take those under guidance appropriately.

I just wanted to be very clear that Susan is leading this process, which is important.

At every stage of your course, going through this over the course of the last eight years,

we've been step by step going through and trying to make the position that we've got to work

and be a full time solution.

That's the key thing here. We've got an interim S151

and Lydia has big strengths

and she's got a pencil

but we need a full time solution and we need a solution which is going to

allow us to look forward because some of our projects are forward looking.

When you look at the likes of Otterpool, that's a half billion pound project

over the course of the next 30 years.

there are some big numbers there and getting the detail on that right is crucial.

...how this Council's finances have been held for a few years.

So I'm entirely supportive of where this paper is trying to go.

In terms of that I think that gives us a 151 Officer.

Although we hoped to have done it a different way.

Sometimes you try things and they don't quite work the way you hoped they would.

and this is one of them.

So this is 151 back onto the CMT, the management team.

I think it will add additional strength to the organisation,

additional resilience, it will allow the finance team to be developed,

to be resilient in themselves as well.

More success in the future.

and so yeah, so that and the consequential changes in order to make sure that again I've

been talked through and I'm very supportive of the approach being taken and how it's been

ended.

So I want to say that you may well end up having to throw me out in a minute because

I'm going to go into each session but I just wanted to make sure that it was on camera

that I support where this is going.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:08:40

Thank you Councillor Prita.

And I'll open it up to some questions from, I think Elaine just pictured there.

Councillor Egan.

Hi, thank you for the report.

Cllr Elaine Martin - 0:08:56

I was just wondering, would the engineering officer be prepared to stay on should she

for the six months or however long.

Thank you.

Dr Susan Priest - 0:09:14

My understanding is yes, there could be an extension

beyond 30 of us to do summer

under the contractual arrangements

and the permissions that a personnel committee

have given me, so my understanding is

that there would be a willingness to do so.

So three day a week,

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:09:39

Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:09:44

I was always in favour of keeping a 151 officer, that was one of my questions. A 151 officer

attracts a high salary and can we get a full salary because I know several councillors

that do get very fed up with we can't afford this and we can't afford that for our residents.

But, they told to us that this could work.

My biggest concern is the cost.

I don't really know how, we couldn't afford it then,

and we're not in the back position now,

but now we're gonna have one when we got an interim one.

Could this not wait till we're in the back position?

Because people are not getting the services they should.

So I'm not against, but I'd like those questions answered, please.

And I'd like to take questions.

Dr Susan Priest - 0:10:38

So I take your point absolutely and I did recall sitting here saying it's not ideal

and I do remember the strength of your feeling at that time.

But at that point of course we were facing the 4 .2 projected MTFS footprint year.

So that is obviously work that we managed to get back to about the 85 ,000 of last year.

So in terms of affordability and costs, in paragraph 1, the final sentence of bold 1,

So this is on page six of your PACS members, paragraph two and one, Director of Finance.

Necessary funding for the role will be found from staffing budget reallocated from the

I don't understand that Susan but what I'm saying is that we've got to make other redundancies

Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:11:53

because we haven't got money for that post office. They're not going to come and keep.

And I'm worried that we'll lose other services on the back of this.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:12:08

Did you want to come back or?

Dr Susan Priest - 0:12:11

Well understood and there's a lot more that possibly could be said but possibly not in

open session.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:12:20

Councillor Martin.

Thank you very much Chair.

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:12:24

Yeah there's two things in that paragraph that you referred to.

Two point one.

The other thing is committee is also asked to consider at this stage if there is a

a shared resourcing arrangement with a neighbouring authority.

I think appetite or no appetite, we're going to have to consider this.

My neighbours are in a similar position.

We are all under the kosh financially and sharing resources

is something that even if we prefer not to,

we may have to at least explore it,

grasp that level.

The other thing, the necessary funding

for the role found in the budget really allocated,

I think that will necessarily mean

the discussion of individuals,

so individual roles in individual people,

And for that, can I suggest that we go into a closed session?

So I have a kind of open and frank discussion about this.

I propose that we go into a closed session

so we can have an honest exchange on this.

Yeah, thank you.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:13:51

Just for the...

Do we have a...

I would normally read something out to go into a closed session

Ms Andrina Smith - 0:14:02

with the proper reason. So it would be to give the following license of business on

the grounds that it is likely to disclose exempt information as defined in paragraph

one and two of part one of schedule eight to the local government act nineteen center

two and that's information relating to an individual and information which is likely

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:14:24

I'm happy to believe I've just read that out to save 30 seconds.

Okay, so with that reason, Councillor Martin, under your proposal.

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:14:36

Because we're talking about individual posts that are occupying individuals, we're necessarily

going to have to talk about those individuals.

Okay.

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:14:49

So, proposed by Councillor Martin, seconded by Councillor King to turn the session.

All in favour?

Okay then.

If I ask Councillor Prater, thank you, and to leave the room and if we can turn off the

recording.

So, come up here.

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Personnel Committee - Thursday 10 October 2024, 10:00am - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting