Cabinet - Wednesday 22 January 2025, 5:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Cabinet
Wednesday, 22nd January 2025 at 5:00pm 

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Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Jim Martin
  2. Cllr Jim Martin
  3. Ms Jemma West
  4. Cllr Jim Martin
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  1. Cllr Jim Martin
  2. Cllr Tim Prater
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  1. Cllr Jim Martin
  2. Cllr Rebecca Shoob
  3. Cllr Jim Martin
  4. Cllr Jim Martin
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  1. Cllr Jim Martin
  2. Cllr Jeremy Speakman
  3. Cllr Jim Martin
  4. Cllr Tim Prater
  5. Cllr Jim Martin
  6. Cllr Jeremy Speakman
  7. Cllr Jim Martin
  8. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  9. Cllr Jim Martin
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  1. Cllr Rich Holgate
  2. Cllr Jim Martin
  3. Cllr Jim Martin
  4. Cllr Mike Blakemore
  5. Cllr Jim Martin
  6. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  7. Adrian Tofts
  8. Cllr Jim Martin
  9. Cllr Jeremy Speakman
  10. Cllr Jim Martin
  11. Cllr Stephen Scoffham
  12. Cllr Rich Holgate
  13. Cllr Jim Martin
  14. Adrian Tofts
  15. Cllr Jim Martin
  16. Cllr Tim Prater
  17. Cllr Jim Martin
  18. Cllr Tim Prater
  19. Cllr Jim Martin
  20. Cllr Stephen Scoffham
  21. Cllr Jim Martin
  22. Cllr Gary Fuller
  23. Cllr Jim Martin
  24. Cllr Tim Prater
  25. Cllr Jim Martin
  26. Cllr Rich Holgate
  27. Mr David Whittingdon
  28. Cllr Jim Martin
  29. Cllr Stephen Scoffham
  30. Cllr Jim Martin
  31. Cllr Mike Blakemore
  32. Cllr Jeremy Speakman
  33. Cllr Jim Martin
  34. Cllr Stephen Scoffham
  35. Cllr Tim Prater
  36. Cllr Stephen Scoffham
  37. Cllr Jim Martin
  38. Cllr Stephen Scoffham
  39. Cllr Jim Martin
  40. Cllr Tim Prater
  41. Cllr Jim Martin
  42. Cllr Tim Prater
  43. Cllr Jim Martin
  44. Cllr Gary Fuller
  45. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  46. Cllr Jim Martin
  47. Dr Susan Priest
  48. Cllr Stephen Scoffham
  49. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  50. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  51. Cllr Jim Martin
  52. Cllr Stephen Scoffham
  53. Cllr Jim Martin
  54. Dr Susan Priest
  55. Cllr Jim Martin
Share this agenda point
  1. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  2. Cllr Jim Martin
  3. Cllr Tim Prater
  4. Cllr Jeremy Speakman
  5. Cllr Rich Holgate
  6. Cllr Jim Martin
  7. Cllr Jim Martin
  8. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  9. Cllr Jim Martin
  10. Webcast Finished

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:00:00
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:00:02
This meeting will be webcast live to the internet.
For those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed, you will need to leave the chamber.
For members, officers and others speaking at the meeting, it is important that the microphones are used
so viewers on the webcast and others in the room may hear you.
Would anyone with a mobile phone please switch it to silent mode as they can be distracting?

1 Apologies for Absence

I would like to remind members that although we all have strong opinions on matters under
consideration it is important to treat members, officers and public speakers with respect.
So welcome everyone, good to see everyone and we'll start with apologies for absence.
No apologies this evening.
Ms Jemma West - 0:00:47
Jolly good.

2 Declarations of Interest

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:00:48
We'll move on then to declarations of interest.
Are there any declarations that members wish to make?
No declarations?
Okay, jolly good.

3 Minutes

Moving on to the minutes.
Does anyone have any issues or concerns or things to raise about the minutes?
So we have a proposer.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:01:18
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:01:18
so sorry, Councillor Prater will propose,
Councillor Speightman will second,
all those in favor, please indicate.
Thank you very much.

4 Private Sector Housing Assistance Policy Review

Thank you very much for that everyone.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:01:39
So moving on to item four,
Private Sector Housing Assistance Policy Review.
Who, Councillor Shub, are you going to kick us off on this?
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:02:00
So this report sets out the policy changes as a result of the review of the Private Sector
Housing Assistance Policy.
So the policy enables people to live well and safely in their own homes for as long as possible.
It's about enabling people to come home from hospital to safe homes,
where otherwise they might not have been able to be discharged.
It covers the no use empty scheme, which is about bringing properties back into use.
And it also covers schemes that look to help people with hoarding disorder,
Parkinson's and Alzheimer's,
to help people carry on living in their own homes.
So the key changes to the policy are listed at 1 .3 of the report.
But so broadly, a lot of the amendments are about increasing flexibility and discretion,
enabling us to give more support to people and to the schemes that it covers.
So the policy will go out for a four -week consultation,
assuming that we approve it this evening,
and that will include consulting with key partners and stakeholders
such as KCC occupational therapists, disability charities and home improvement agencies.
I just wanted to take this opportunity to say
I think this policy gives a really good insight into just some of the work that the private
sector housing team does, particularly given that it's a very small team.
So I much appreciate the work that's gone into the report and I'm very happy to move
the recommendations.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:03:50
Thank you very much, Councillor Shug.
I'm very happy to second and I would also like to add my thanks to the private sector
housing team who work extraordinarily hard and are, as we know from our recent meeting
with Liverpool City Council, are very successful.
So well done to Kerry and Jill and everyone in housing.
but I'm very happy to second and open it for comments or discussion.
Members?
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:04:31
Okay, such a good report.
So we have a proposal, Councillor Shrew, we have a seconder in myself.
All those in favour, please indicate.
I think that's everyone. Thank you very much.
Thank you.

5 KCC grass cutting

Sean Sweet, carrying.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:04:50
So we'll move on to item 5, KCC grass cutting.
This is on pages 49 to 80.
And Councillor Speakeman, are you going to take us through this?
Yes, with pleasure.
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:05:09
So this report follows on recommendations agreed from, as members may recall, from the
previous report to Cabinet 2023,
setting out proposals for
savings to be made by handing
back to KCC their contract for grass
cutting services across the district.
Folkestone High District Council is
currently paid by KCC to carry out
the County Council's responsibilities
for grass cutting, but the
Folkestone High Council also
subsidizes that contract in order
to enhance the overall appearance
of the district in line with
district and resident expectations.
It follows on from the Star Chamber process
in 2023, which explored ways in which savings
could be made to the grounds maintenance budget.
Fokes and High District Council still
remains the only district authority
in the country that undertakes rural mowing work,
as all the other authorities have handed back
the service due to uneconomic contractual terms
and conditions.
So this report is by way of an update
to recommendations agreed by cabinet in 2023,
which were to reduce the rural Suede
cuts from two to one per year, defer the decision for 12
months to hand back the contract to KCC
to ensure smooth transfer, and consider
which high profile areas could be
retained to enhance the appearance of the district.
So this report considers options in respect
of the transfer of the service to KCC for April 1st, 2025, but with reference specifically
to the retention or otherwise of the high profile areas and verges, predominantly around
the main vehicular access points in Folkestone.
Additionally, it notes the loss of seasonal flower beds in the verges being handed back
to KCC and provides an update on transfer arrangements relating to staff and assets.
The report also goes on to provide an
overall financial assessment of the
projected savings for the 2526 budget.
So the following recommendations are
for consideration by cabinet.
To approve the retention of the proposed
high profile verges or to hand back all
the verges including the proposed high
profile areas or to approve retention of
some of the proposed high profile verges.
Additionally, to note the loss of the highway verge
seasonal flower beds and to note the projected savings
for the 25 -26 budget and beyond.
Members are asked to consider the options
and confirm how officers should proceed.
I would move the report.
Thank you.
Thank you very much, Councillor Spakeman.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:08:01
Members, discussion, comments, questions?
Councillor Proater.
Thank you.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:08:12
Firstly, we've got to pick a horse on recommendation two between A, B and C as it is.
So whether we're going to retain the proposed verges in the report or hand back the verges
or to approve the retention of some of those verges.
I'd like to, I'm happy to second the report, but moving option 2A, we approve the retention
of all of the verges which are listed within that report for retention.
The numbers, the cost of doing so is detailed within the report.
The cost of retaining them all is around £4 ,800 a year, and therefore if you're cost slicing
that seems ridiculous, and I speak as somebody who's spending a lot of time on numbers at
this moment and even I'm not going to argue about £4 ,799 a year right now and look for
savings on that. So I very much support 2A rather than that. I'm happy to make sure that
that's moved. Clearly I'm sure all of us are a little concerned about KCC taking on the
Virgin Island across the area. I don't think there's another option, hence why I'm happy
to go with the paper and what may be produced there.
I really hope that they do a competent job of mowing across the district and that they
can do so and we end up with proper verge displays etc on the roads.
I have real concerns that that might be a problem but I'm sure that we will make sure
that we put the maximum pressure on them to make sure that that is happening and that
as of the growing season starts, that we have a clear understanding that they do have a
schedule in place and they do have a contractor in place and that that contractor knows what
they're doing and is delivering to the appropriate standard so that our roads remain safe and
people can still see round corners and stuff in the middle of the district and that we're
able to see over verges in our grounds as well.
I hope that that will take place.
The one other point I'd like to make is that within the report we're looking at, there
are two beds that we would be giving up ongoing maintenance of, which are within Sandgate,
and they are proposed for permanent planting.
I'd really appreciate if the team could speak to Sandgate Parish Council before that plant
is to discuss that planting before it's put in.
I think they'd like to take on the ongoing maintenance of those beds, but if they could
discuss the permanent planting which went into them first, then it can be a collaborative
working, make sure that the right thing goes in place that can be planted round etc. as
opposed to just putting something big in there which you can't work with all around.
So with that, please can we just talk and agree what's going to go in there, because
I think it's probably the best approach around and I'm sure that the town and parish, it
would be worth us just making sure that we have that conversation with the other town
and the events that are actually being surrendered at that stage, just to say, if you want to
talk to us about what we're going to put in before we do it, that would be a useful thing
to do.
But with those caveats, happy to move, I'm happy to say 2a is the way we're formed.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:11:28
Just a couple of things to clarify now.
Councillor Speakeman, you proposed, are you content with being seconded on 2a?
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:11:41
Yes, I would be content with that.
I'd also like to take, I think,
Councillor Brater's point around the flower beds he's mentioned in Sange,
I think there could be similar conversations with the Hith town council
with regard to the two in Hith,
I think there's two in Hith,
there's Prospect Road and Prince of Wales bed in Hith.
Maybe the Hith councillors could have a look at that one.
Certainly. So perhaps I can ask Andy,
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:12:14
Do you think this sort of liaison and cooperative approach is appropriate?
Will you be able to manage that?
I think the best approach, if I may, would probably be to provide all
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:12:24
of the contact
details to the clerks of the KCC officers who are running the project because they will
have to take it out of the contract.
So rather than being liaison, put the clerks directly in touch with the KCC officers that
are dealing with this, if that is okay.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:12:41
Well, that would seem sensible to me, because then they would be able to take us out of
the loop effectively and liaise directly with the people who are planting rather than coming
back to you, et cetera.
So I think that's fairly workable, yeah.
Any other councillors wish to contribute in terms of this?
So we have a proposer and that proposal is for option 2A,
with the seconder for option 2A, which is to approve the retention
of the proposed high profile verges.
So it's not 2B, it's 2A.
If we vote on that first of all and then if somebody wants to propose something else,
we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
So on the basis of 2A, having been proposed
by Councillor Speakeman, having been seconded
by Councillor Prater, all those in favour, please indicate.
Thank you very much, and I'm breathing a deep sigh

6 Folkestone & Hythe District Heritage Strategy

of relief that we don't have to go through a full list.
So thank you very much, everyone, that's excellent.
Moving on to item six, Folkestone and Hyde
a district heritage strategy and Councillor Holgate,
are you gonna lead us on this one?
Thank you.
Good evening.
First of all, I'd just like to thank
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:14:08
officers Peering and David for their work
on this item, bringing this forward.
Their inbox will be a quieter place
without me bugging them so much.
As for the item itself, the district is a rich
and diverse heritage with many sites
and buildings of special interest.
This report sets out an updated heritage strategy
which will ensure that our heritage will play
a positive role in the future.
The previous draft strategy was an important evidence base
for the core strategy review and place and policies local plan.
And this has now been reviewed to ensure
that it can continue to support any future plans as well
as other council initiatives, such as those relating
to regenerational tourism.
So to clarify, we have had a heritage strategy drafted
in the past.
But for various reasons, it may have sat on the shelf
collecting dust.
This is our opportunity to give it some review
review and push it forward to the review,
seeks to ensure that strategy is more
accessible and has been updated in line
with current legislation themes which
are linked to historical typologies have
been retained from the original document.
As these enabled the many assets in
the district to be considered as groups,
which will assist in the delivery
of positive positive heritage actions.
Given that the heritage strategy has
been previously consulted on in
getting it to this stage and is
proposed at the amended strategy is
subject to a short consultation with local heritage groups and key stakeholders,
such as parish councils and so forth,
before being adopted by the district council.
And finally, what I'm looking forward to personally is that this strategy
and its subsequent consultation will be the first domino
into more explicit action on Auckland's heritage.
Dave, move the floor.
Excellent. Thank you very much.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:15:46
I'm very, very happy to second
and really echo your words about our rich heritage
and we are the custodians of that heritage
and it's something that I know we take very, very seriously.
So I'm very, very happy to open it up for comments from councillors.
Councillor Blayton.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:16:11
Yeah, I just want to say I think it's an excellent piece of work.
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:16:15
Very, very pleased to see it
and I agree wholeheartedly about the importance of heritage
in terms of tourism and economic development
and the well -being of people living within the district.
I think as Councillor Holgate alluded to,
strategy needs to be a living thing
that has a practical output
rather than being something that's placed on the shelf
and forgotten about.
So I look forward to seeing it enacted
and us working with partners to do that.
We have some very good civic society partners
in the district who I know will welcome us also.
But yeah, very, very pleased to see it.
Councilor Polly Blakemore.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:16:54
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:16:57
No, likewise, really excited to read the content
of this report and see such importance being attached
to the rich heritage throughout our district
and along the coast.
Just had a question about the links to the corporate plan
given that we're working on an emerging corporate plan.
Obviously, the one we're in at the moment is the one that's referenced here.
But as we move forward and have the new corporate plan,
presumably that will be linked in. Just interested to know how that will work.
Thank you.
Adrian Tofts - 0:17:29
Yes, we can certainly reference the new corporate plan,
assuming it's adopted in March
and certainly when we go out for consultation.
and the document in front of you has got to be turned into a more presentable...
with graphics.
So we can do it as part of that process with our graphic designer.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:17:59
I can confirm that Adrian has been driven nuts
with making sure that the heritage is just in about every section of the corporate plan.
So, well done.
Councillor Spake.
Yes, I just wanted to raise an issue
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:18:16
regarding the actual strategy document, page 105, item 6.
The council will investigate creating and maintaining
a local heritage at -risk register which links to the National Register.
I'm sorry to sound like a worn -out record
on my own particular personal interest
in relation to the mills, Stening Minnis, which is one of the last remaining smock mills
that are still working.
The mills in Kent, I think there are about half a dozen at least in East Kent, and they
have been under threat because they come under KCC in the main, I think most, nine out of
ten, I can't remember the exact number.
and KCC have indicated that they wish to sell them at some point.
I spoke to the manager at Stelling Minister Mill in relation to this
and he hasn't heard anything further, but obviously it does remain at risk.
These are Grade 1 listed buildings and I think it would be a huge loss
to the area in terms of our heritage if they were allowed to fall into disrepair
as so many have done.
And like I say, we have got at least six, I think, of course,
certainly this part of Kent.
So just like to see, just flag that up,
that it could be kind of, perhaps,
have done a lot with the minister managers,
bill managers, so it could be in the local heritage risk
register.
That's all I'm saying.
Thank you.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:19:53
Does anyone want to come back on that specific point?
Councillor Holcote.
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:19:55
Yeah, just to register a note.
It's an example of several heritage assets that I think would benefit from being properly
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:20:06
registered and have that register updated and I look forward to getting on with it.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:20:13
I don't know what the opinion of the officers might be but I think the mill at Stelling
Minnis might be something that gets transferred from KCC into a new unitary.
Adrian Tofts - 0:20:33
Just to say that that mill was put forward to us as a potential asset to community value
and we did list it on, so it is on our register and if it does come to be sold we would have
to go through the asset to community value process and there would be in effect a moratorium
on the sale to allow local groups to put in a bid for it.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:20:59
And I know that local people were very grateful to have it listed as such.
They, you know, people who campaigned for it were hugely grateful for it.
Councillor Prater.
I will come to you Stephen.
Thank you.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:21:17
I really welcome the fact that this heritage strategy has been revised and I know it's
from previous drafts.
I think I found the last one lying around was 2018, which is Heritage in itself.
So it's good to see that that was a dusted off and re -bought through.
It's like a slightly controversial mode, because I think there's a missing section, there's
a missing bit in this, and I wanted to raise it, and then people can tell me it's not missing
and to go away, but I've then said it.
The thing that I don't think is related to very well within the heritage here is the
people, and how people are remembered within our district and the importance of those people.
So coming from Sangay, I'm obviously going to reference Wells, and I'm obviously going
to reference Moore, and I'm obviously going to reference Jakes and Wilkforth, but the
rest of the district has had some interesting people interact with the district and live
So we've got places in Foulkes where Dickens lived, we've got Harvey, we've got buildings
where he lived and the school which was founded in his name and we've got, so as I said, there
are at least three buildings in Zangate where Wells lived, there are a number of places
where Wilberthorpe stayed.
And although the buildings, those buildings themselves are not necessarily architecturally
significant because of the people who lived there, because of the great people who lived
in our district make those places great in themselves.
and I've been through the document and it doesn't really bring those people out
and it doesn't really bring it in quite that way.
There are references to Sir John Moore on the basis of the barracks and things that are there
but not necessarily where he lived within Sandgate, not necessarily, doesn't reference twists
and the changes, the shape that he put to our area and the canal which went through it
fences which are there. And although it references all of the buildings and the archaeology and
how that is important, or how it might get there, our heritage is also the people who've
been here and how that's impacted where we are and who we are. And that's the weakness
that I think this is, that it could have more people in it and more understanding of the
impact that those people have had on how we feel about where we live and how we view where
we live.
And they're the things which appear on the maps as well.
I had a copy of the most recent Folkestone town map which the district is working on
alongside Folkestone town council and it's got pictures of the Harvey memorial and the
school and it's got those people in it because those people are important to Folkestone and
and they're not really within this.
And that's something I'd like to see drawn out more within this,
in terms of presenting that and bringing some of those people
and how they lived here and where they lived here and Jarnam in Dungeon Essex.
We're not bringing the people alive within this story
and they're the things that make it interesting.
The rest of it's just well piled brick.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:24:31
I did go to an exhibition in Folkestone Museum recently
for Noel Redding, who was the bass guitarist in the Jimi Hendrix experience.
So I'm in complete agreement with you, Councillor Prater.
My mother told me about him.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:24:45
Councillor Schaffram.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:24:49
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:24:52
I could build on that and I think I would agree with you absolutely,
Councillor Prater.
I can remember saying a few words in full counsel about William Harvey and his association with the
Folkestone area and the way in which we could really build that up, or ask the question,
was there a potential to build that up? We've got Stratford and Avon as Shakespeare's town,
you know, Folkestone as William Harvey's town, and William Harvey's a huge figure in the history of medicine
and we could make more of him.
And all the other people that you've listed,
I love going around town and seeing the plaques and so on.
We've got quite a number of folks and they're great, I enjoy looking at them.
But yes, they ought to be more,
this is part of our heritage and I really support that.
Actually, the heritage strategy was one of the first...
I've read a lot of strategies since I was elected 18 months ago.
I think we all have.
Those of you who have been in the game longer will have read even more.
The heritage strategy was one of the first ones that I read
and I was really excited by it.
I echo all the points that have been said earlier.
Strengthening the strategy and updating it
so it feeds into the local plan great.
Maybe again I'm going to be slightly controversial.
I did read with great interest sections 4 .4 to 4 .11
on the defensive monuments that we've got around this area.
They all make perfect sense to me and this is a really interesting story.
Then I thought, well actually this is all about keeping people out.
What about letting people in?
This area has been in the forefront of new ideas
because of its closeness to the mainland of Europe.
That's an important message, and it's not coming across
because we've sent certain paragraphs talking about defence.
Where's the obverse of it?
Where are the new ideas and the opportunities
which have come from our particular location?
If you think of East Kent generally,
why do we have an Archbishop of Canterbury?
We have an archbishop of Canterbury because East Kent was where Augustine landed in 597.
Why was the kingdom of Kent the leading Anglo -Saxon kingdom?
Again, it was because of the Jewish invasion in the 6th and 7th century.
We've got testimony to that, coming back to people.
We've got Offelberger and we've got Ainsworth, two Anglo -Saxon saints, within our district.
This seems to me a powerful story.
When I went to the Ainsworth church and looked at the walks
linking Queen Bertha and Ainsworth and Ethelberger,
three saints from that period, I thought that's a great story.
So much of English history goes around kings and men,
and there's a story of female saints.
So we can tell the story in lots of different ways.
You don't want a whole lecture on this, but if you ask me more, I'll tell you more.
So that's one thought.
Another one was, there is a danger in this sort of report,
as there is in all these things, of taking assets,
and I don't like that word assets because it's a just set of exploitative,
but taking assets in isolation rather than their setting.
And I think I would want to celebrate much more strongly
and see more strength in the report on the North Downs as a landscape,
because it is a very special landscape.
It's actually very different from the other short down and uplands.
It's got a very distinctive pattern of fields, woodlands, lanes, tracks
and the remote villages and isolated townlands which are dotted across it.
The pattern of settlement is unique.
One of the problems of taking individual buildings
with all respect to the windmills, for example, roundabout,
is that you need to see the windmill in its setting.
I think we need to see the North Downs as a setting.
as a setting for all those little villages, for those churches,
for those individual assets that we want to celebrate.
And that setting expresses a historic relationship between people and the land.
And that leads me into some of the more important updated things
which have been going on recently.
One of them is the Geo -Park, which again we've talked about in full counsel.
And one of the ideas of the Geo -Park, straight up there at the front of the website,
is the idea of geodiversity.
Geodiversity, an awkward word.
The statement there on the website is that geodiversity
is the intrinsic part of humanity's relationship with nature.
It impacts most areas of society
and is essential to the implementation of, wait for it,
the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals.
So that relationship between people and nature,
which is evidenced in lots of different ways in the North -South landscape,
is something which I think we could make more of.
I'm not suggesting a complete huge expansion,
but I really think it needs to be flagged up
alongside the upgrading of the area of outstanding natural beauty
to a national landscape,
along with the very recently published Making Space for Nature report.
I've just got the strength to raise it.
It's just hundreds of pages, another report full of wonderful stuff.
and recognising the unique plants and creatures that we've got here.
So just to round it off, a talk I was at yesterday,
I was hearing about elm trees and the opportunity for replanting elms.
Along the Royal Military Canal, originally planted with thousands,
literally thousands of elms to stabilise the banks.
We lost them in the 60s and 70s.
This is a military story, it's a geocyte at West Highs.
The elm trees have gone.
We've now got to the point where we've got resistant elm trees,
or if we think we've got them, which can be replanted.
So that's a link between landscape people,
heritage assets, geo -park and so on.
So drawing that sort of thing out
seems to me an opportunity that would be really good to take.
So I hope that gives you a flavour of where I'm coming from.
It's a great report. I'm very pleased to see it.
if we can do a little bit of sort of emphasizing the landscape
and tweaking it a bit and putting in references
to some of these key recent documents, that would be great.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:31:03
Thank you very much. Councillor Fuller.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:31:09
Just thinking, just building on kind of what Tim said really
about the putting people throughout the document as it were,
I do wonder if there's actually an argument
for making it an additional theme in the list of themes. I know there's a big list of themes
but what got me thinking about this is actually Walter Tunnel because obviously his achievements
fit within the Great War, defence heritage sort of things but he was also an accomplished
sportsman and I can't see where that would fit in there so I actually do wonder if there's
for a theme specifically about the people, because some of those people won't fit
naturally into these themes and therefore might get missed out of the overarching picture as it were.
Good idea. Councillor Prita.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:32:00
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:32:04
Thank you. It takes a spurs fan to bring up Walter Tull. So congratulations.
I thought you might go on.
I'm just going to flip back. Stephen has reminded me of the point.
The religious heritage section of 4 .1 .5, it talks about a number of the bits of heritage that we've got there.
It doesn't reference St. Inswith and we found an actual saint and their actual relics buried in actually Folkstone.
And that strikes me as part of the story that we could probably be telling as well.
So it's a another person of that stage and the fact that settled there, but is still there,
has got to be part of our religious heritage story at that stage.
and I speak as somebody who really has no right to speak on religious heritage,
but I think the story is very strong and the fact that we have that link back there
is something other people don't have.
You know, some people say Stratford is William Shakespeare's place
and Fodson could be William Harvey's,
but we've got literally the relics of a saint buried in town,
not many of them around.
The only church in the country that has a relic.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:33:13
So of a saint, the founding saint.
You mean the saint?
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And the destination of the Kentish Camino, the route for the pilgrims was not to Dover
from Canterbury, it was to Folkestone.
And they picked up that as part of their pilgrimage.
So there you go.
I've been on the tour.
Sorry, Councillor Holgate.
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:33:38
Thank you all very much. It's wonderful already to have such energy and excitement about the
strategy. I must admit it's very, very worthwhile. I don't know whether David or I'm going to
come back from a more approachable perspective, but I just wanted to do say is I need this.
I need all your support. I need your links to civic societies and heritage groups. I
need this as a collective effort to ensure that this strategy can be optimized to the
best to our ability. So, yeah, thank you and look forward to working with you all on that
planet from great points.
Mr David Whittingdon - 0:34:11
Are you going to come in here, David?
Yes, I'm going to.
Great, thank you.
Okay, we can certainly take those ideas on board. Maybe too late to get it into the consultation,
but during the consultation and so forth we can review it afterwards. I would just add
that there are a number of detailed theme papers
which were originally part of the original
Heritage Strategy which made it a huge document.
We've taken those out, but we're going to have those
on the website as sort of more evidence.
And I think one or two of the people you've mentioned
probably have been mentioned in those.
Not all of them, but I'd need to go through
and double check.
We certainly could have an idea of an extra theme
of bringing out individuals and what they mean
to the district.
But just to note that things like the North Downs
is brought out in more detail in those detailed scene papers
which we're gonna have on the website
as a background document so it doesn't make the strategy
too inflexible.
Thank you.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:35:17
Just interestingly, just to bore you all,
we do still have a lot of elm trees
on the banks of the Royal Military Canal
but once they get to a certain height,
that's when they catch Dutch Elm disease.
So the trees will last sort of three years without a problem
and then they'll die.
And it's because they get to a certain height where the virus exists.
Isn't that interesting? There you go.
Things you learn, eh?
So, thank you very much for all of that.
We have a proposer.
We have a seconder.
I think I seconded that.
And so...
Just to make sure.
Yep, we did.
Oh, jolly good.
So all those in favor, please indicate.
And thank you very much.
Thank you, Councillor Holgate, and thanks for the support team for bringing that together.
It's really excellent and terrific.
And you see how excited we all are by it, so that's great.
Moving on then to Item 7, Folks in the High District Green Grant Program.
And Councillor Scoffin, are you going to lead us off on this one?
I will, and I'm delighted to do so.
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:36:27
It's something that we probably all had sight of, in different ways, or aware of,
and bringing it to cabinet this evening is absolutely wonderful.
And just as a sort of reminder, it did go to overview and scrutiny
before Christmas in that period,
so that's one of the reasons why we know about it.
The proposal for the Green Grant Scheme builds on the previous grant schemes that we've
administered.
There's the Rural England Prosperity Fund and the Green Business Grant Scheme, both
of which were hugely successful.
And one of the things about those grant schemes is that they attracted a range of ideas which
we could never have possibly come up with if we had come up with them ourselves.
It wasn't a matter of saying we've got a bright idea, who's going to go and run away
with it and do it, it's the other way around, people knocking on the door and saying we
want to do this, can you help us?
And that's exactly the philosophy behind the Green Grant scheme as you'll see from the
report.
Its aim is to foster community engagement in enabling sustainable practices throughout
the district, which is a very broad rubric, but it is that opportunity for supporting
what might be termed trickling up rather than trickling down.
We all know the problems of trickling down,
but trickling up sort of engages and involves and empowers local people
in a way that we think is really exciting.
So, I put that on the table, as it were.
The proposal itself is for a budget of £250 ,000
allocated over a period which could extend to 2027
with up to 80 % of the project costs covered by the grants.
and that was an allocation that was actually voted on by full council
in, I think it was 2019?
Yeah, it was 2019.
So, it's been sitting for a long time,
and what a good thing that we've got at the point
where we're able to access it,
and thank you very much indeed for all the offers of support
and the brilliant idea of the award scheme.
And, Susan, I'd really like to thank you
for the way in which you've helped to steer this into life.
So, four categories.
Climate action micro -grants up to a thousand pounds.
So that is where a small amount of money
can really make a big difference to local groups.
And we suggested in the report that maybe we get 20 of those.
20 groups, all buzzing, all full of enthusiasm and all enabled.
maybe four people or four grants will be available
under the social and community grant scheme,
it depends on what bits come in.
We might have four grants under the small businesses
and community groups and charity and town parishes grants
and that will engage, and we're thinking of engaging
the town and town parishes in the grant scheme
and inviting them to contribute with ideas.
Rewilding, tree planting and so on.
Again, maybe we would get five months or five applications around that.
We already have a list of the best part of a dozen people
who are very interested.
There's a communication strategy which James and I were talking about recently.
James will have spent.
There will be a question and answer session where people can find out more
and indeed a workshop.
I think we now got the first of April of the day for the workshop,
which really builds on the Sustainable Futures Programme.
So this is an absolutely wonderful way
of building on a whole wave of interests
which we've got across the district.
I very much recommend it to everybody
as a scheme which will enable people to do what they want
because they know it's what is needed to be done at this particular time.
So without more ado, that's what we are recommending.
Are you going to propose?
I will propose it. That's a surprise.
Thank you very much. I'm very happy to second.
And just before we start the debate to pass on,
my thanks to Dr Priest for knocking us into shape on this one,
where we all had a thousand ideas about where this should go.
So we all benefit, I think, hugely from the direction we were given.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:41:02
So, yeah, I'm very excited about this and very, very happy to second it and open it
up for debate.
Councillors, Councillor Blakemore.
I'm very excited too, can't you tell?
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:41:14
Always.
No, I really am and I think anything that involves community engagement I welcome enormously
and I've no doubt that there'll be a very good take -up of the grants.
I welcome what Councillor Scothenay said about the communications strategy
because I think it's really important that we reach out
and we have as diverse a range of groups apply for these grants as possible.
I think there's a real onus on us to do that,
so that we try and attract as much diversity,
whether that's geographical diversity or diversity of other kinds,
in the groups that we reach with this.
I've no doubt there are people crying out there for this kind of funding.
but it would be lovely to see that funding go to some groups which wouldn't normally be recipients of that,
who wouldn't perhaps otherwise have thought about applying for money in this way.
So I think communications is essential, and I think we all have a part to play in that as members as well.
We have our links with community groups in our own areas.
Some of the members sit on parish and town councils and have links with other groups.
There are various community forums now operating in the district where we can share this,
I look forward to doing that myself and to other members.
I think it's a big part to play in this as well.
I have no doubt it will be a great success.
Councillor Spinks.
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:42:34
Just a technical thing really about how the grants will be awarded.
2 .6, the grants awarded can contribute to 80 % of the total project costs,
with the remaining 20 % coming from other grant schemes
or from the recipient's own resources, including bank loans.
In terms of other grant schemes, is there scope for other internal grant schemes to
help support that grant?
For example, if you are from your own ward grant, if somebody is struggling to get 20 %
and you can support that from your own ward grant, that is possible, is it?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And it really just depends what grants there are around at the time because they're fairly
transitory there.
But yeah, there's no problem with that.
If there is a particular project,
somewhere local in your ward or whatever,
they make an application, but they need some more money.
You can top them up from your ward grant
without any conflict at all.
Great, thank you very much.
Councillor Scoffyn.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:43:39
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:43:41
Just to emphasise the point that Councillor Lickmore makes
about communication, the communication strategy will involve alerting all the parishes and
town councils to the scheme, which is really a good way of reaching out and it is empowering
for them, which I think is another message and given the way we are heading with devolution
involved in the parish councils and the town councils and so on is the direction of travel
So that means to me very good sense.
We have also a policy of our plan to contact schools.
And of course that feeds into...
I think we've got six secondary schools signed up for the youth forum
which is coming up shortly.
Again, there's a bit of synergy here coming along which is really good.
If those schools and other schools wish to apply for a grant,
then the door is open.
And that is something that...
So the message we need to put out is to all councillors
is to encourage bids from their ward.
As I say, I think the more bids we get in now, the better.
And if it runs through the money quickly, then so be it.
It should be an indication of the extent
and the depth of the enthusiasm that exists locally
for a whole range of uncertain, very varied, and very
interesting projects.
Councillor Proctor.
Thank you.
I also really welcome this scheme.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:45:07
I'm grateful for the breadth of the number of organisations that can take part in it,
as was referenced in town and parish councils.
I'm particularly keen to see those there.
In a brainstorming session today at Sandgate Parish Council, looking at this paper, I have
just over 13 large schemes to bring forward, so I might be able to short -circuit this process
and save Stephen some time.
Got explored saying that the same person can't bid many times, but they might notice it.
There isn't such a clause I noted with enthusiasm.
I probably stopped the ring for all 13.
A couple of points though that were made there, and actually Jeremy's point kept
so to speak, on the 20 % comment there.
Although I totally get those for the larger projects there, and you're talking about
town and parish councils and companies and things bidding for those.
I do wonder with the micro -grants of a thousand pence,
when you're looking at individuals and small groups and schools and things like that,
whether that's actually a barrier to entry that we don't necessarily need at that stage,
and whether the micro -grants we could consider to go to up to 100 % of funding,
rather than up to 80 % of funding.
I'd throw that out there as a thought to councillors.
I don't know if technically there would be any reason why one couldn't go to 100 % on
those, but I think if you're a school putting a project together at that stage and you've
got to then say, okay, you can get £200, oh, by the way, you can borrow it, is not
the right answer to that question and give ourselves the flexibility to play with that.
As I totally understand from the larger grants there as well at that stage. I'd also say
though under 4 .4, when there's the illustrative number of projects and costs at that stage,
Because of that 20%, because you can only fund 80 % of them,
you can actually do more projects than you say you can,
because you've included four projects up to £15 ,000 each,
it's £60 ,000 and actually it's not,
because it's £48 ,000 because of the £3 ,000 you've got to believe.
So actually you can...
The illustrative number of projects should be higher than it is there,
certainly for those large ones,
but if there was backing for it, I'd be happy to support a minor amendment to this,
which actually says that the micro grants that could be considered up to 100%.
Obviously, if somebody turns around with match funding, brilliant.
Let's do that.
But I think if the micro grants we could consider,
that it would be possible for you to consider up to 100%,
I think that would be something which would allow more flowers of diversity to bloom
I'm in favour of that even if President Trump isn't.
Councillor Scotland.
Yes, that's a very good point, Councillor Fraser.
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:48:02
Two hours ago I was talking to somebody who was very interested in the micro -grants
and I said, well, it's 80 % funding,
and she pulled a face and said that will be a problem for me.
So that is just anecdotal, but I'm certain it will be a problem
for quite a few people who are looking for just a few hundred pounds.
I don't know whether I'm having proposed the motion,
whether it's acceptable for me to support the amendment.
Is that what you're talking about?
Just as an alternative thought or alternative route
is that we do have very good officers
and we have a decision panel.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:48:48
Now, I think I would prefer to see the rule being the 80%.
But in terms of your example, Councillor Scotham,
of the exceptional case,
then we could maybe go to 90, 95 or even 100.
But I would think rather than setting out a blanket, as it were,
we've both worked with Andy Markwell.
We know how fastidious he is about the detail.
So, I would suggest that we leave it as the rule,
but maybe if we were to say, in exceptional cases,
100 % would be considered.
Something like that, because I wouldn't like to offer
a blanket opportunity for 100 % grants.
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:49:42
I think that sounds excellent, and I like the idea of the flexibility
and the discretion that he gives the officers.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:49:48
Councillor Proater, how do you feel about that?
Sorry, I don't like that.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:49:52
2 .6 actually says grants awarded can contribute up to 80 % of the total project costs.
If the officers are bound by the paper and the recommendations as we move them like that,
they're bound by it being up to 80%.
And therefore, I think actually a recommendation for, and adding a full recommendation that
that officers can have discretion on small project grants, of them being up to 100%,
gives them that discretion.
You get guidelines for it, you're looking for 80%, but it gives them guidance that if
you pass it as it is and don't put in some variety of caveat recommendation, they're
broadly bound by the paper.
Unless we put in a recommendation to change it.
So I think my recommendation is that, but in recommendation 4 that 2 .6 can be for small
projects only, but the smaller up to 1 ,000 will be doing it, can be with officers discretion
up to 100%.
Yeah.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:50:57
So, I've just been advised that we can have what we want.
It needs to be a further recommendation, and the wording needs to be really tight in terms
of it.
But it is officers' discretion, obviously presented to the panel,
to make that decision.
Would Dr Priest have any recommendations
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:51:21
for the wording of a recommendation 4?
That I would then be happy to propose.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:51:32
Our chief executive is busily engaged in jotting down the...
But I think that gives us that we're blessed with good officers.
So I've got huge confidence that we can go forward on this basis.
And I think we can...
There's an element of outreach on all of these grant programmes,
which until I got involved in the day -to -day of it,
I didn't realise how much outreach there has to be,
how much guidance and help the applicants need to get into a position to fully apply
for the grant.
But I'm very confident that we can manage all of that.
Councillor Fuller.
There you go.
Just to give Dr Priest a bit more cover.
Cllr Gary Fuller - 0:52:18
Just two very quick questions or points.
One, I know they should know this, but it would be nice to put on the form town and
parish council, or town, sorry, all parish council, just because there will be someone
that will sit there and go, but I'm a town.
But also, have we spoken to IT about making sure
this form can be filled in on the website
so that a lot of the administrative load
can be made a bit easier?
Yep, I can answer that.
So it's the same as the previous green business grant, which
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:52:53
is an online form, so we're using that.
And that worked well last time, so we're copy and pasting that.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:53:02
We had our further recommendation.
Oh, we're waiting.
Dr Susan Priest - 0:53:05
Councillor Blakemore.
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:53:06
Just one quick question on clarity, which might be good for comms as
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:53:12
well.
As I said, a bit confused, 3 .7, there's talk of the application deadlines aimed at late
March or April, and then the next sentence talks about it may take several months for
applicants to prepare their bids.
So is this a two -stage process, or when is the actual deadline,
when they need to get their bids in?
OK. We're going to be tsunami'd with answers, yes.
James?
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:53:46
We wanted to give enough time for the comms strategy to take effect,
and so we'd announce it soon after the decision today,
and give us two months to start putting the comms out there.
We want to have enough time to organize a Q &A session
to help the prospective applicants go
through the process so they know what they need.
And so we've got two events lined up for that.
And so the idea is we give ourselves two months,
get the word out, and then by this stage,
April, mid to April, a date hasn't been set,
but we're aiming for mid -April for the first deadline
for applicants to come in.
And if we can't spend all the money in that first deadline,
then we'll look to set a second deadline later in the summer,
depending on how much money's there.
Thank you very much.
Councillor Scotten.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:54:31
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:54:32
This is something I raised with a little bit of hesitation, but it's just the composition
of the award panel and whether we need any extra wording around that, which I think it
looks towards the committee system and talks about how, and rather assumes that we will
have a committee system, which is an interesting question.
we don't have a committee system at the moment.
I just wonder whether that ward panel wording needs to be updated in any way.
You wouldn't, you're going to, is it alright, Mr?
Thank you for the point you've raised, Councillor Scotland.
I don't think you need to update the report because,
yeah, obviously, it's subject to decisions.
If we are in the current state, we'd revert to the process we use for the Green Grants programme,
which is the ward members, portfolio holder, etc.
Good. I'm glad it's not a problem. I just wanted to clarify.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:55:28
So now we have our recommendation.
Dr Susan Priest - 0:55:34
Okay. So hopefully this is acceptable to the proposal in a second,
and then we can take them for the committee.
So, recommendation 4. This is what I think I've heard.
On an exceptional basis, with the support of the decision panel, the micro -grants to
have flexibility to accept proposals requiring up to 100 % grant funding.
Can you do that?
Yep, very good.
Shall we just read it again?
So on an exceptional basis, with the support of the decision panel, the micro -grants to
have the flexibility to accept proposals requiring up to 100 % grant funding.
Do we need to vote on the amendment first or?
You want to vote for Councillor Scotham
and yourself to be in the amendment.
Yep.
And you are happy Councillor?
Absolutely, yeah that's perfect.
And I'm happy.
Thank you very much.
So we're voting on the 10th.
Yeah, we can just take them all as a...
Okay.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:56:33
Good, so we have a proposer, Councillor Scotham,
a seconder, myself.
we have acknowledged that we're happy with the amendment.
So all those in favor, please indicate.
Thank you very much everyone.
Moving on to item eight, Ship Street development,
which I'm going to lead on,
but I will probably need a lot of explanation by Andy.

8 Ship Street Development - Update

So Ship Street is a site that we have owned for some time.
time and it was an abandoned site. The market had abandoned it. It was effectively undevelopable.
It has got just about every inherent problem you could look for on a site and you'll find
them, if you go looking, you'll find them all on Ship Street. So it's a very, very,
very difficult site to develop but that's the reason that with some government encouragement
and we took it on.
So the idea was and still is to bring the site forward so that the market will take
it up.
So the inherent difficulties in developing the site are dealt with by us and we bring
the site forward for the market to respond to it.
So there are the recommendations, you note a report to note the work carried out on site,
to note the complex issues around the site viability and that is in effect the planning
permission that we have offers a very low value in terms of the site value.
We're being asked to approve the updated planning strategy, which includes submission of an
outline planning application.
Now the idea behind that is that we will take a step back and effectively get ourselves
an outline planning application, which will leave an incoming developer some flexibility
in terms of what they want to put on the site.
At the moment, the planning status of the site is very prescriptive and the agents information
is that is limiting our ability to sell the site.
Lovely go on and on, don't they?
So to approve and instruct officers, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
I'll hand it over to Andy if that's okay, just to give us some more background on it.
Thank you, Chair.
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:59:28
I think, to be honest, you've covered it quite well, Jim.
We need to do this.
We've set out to deliver an exemplar scheme on a site that has got very low values and
a whole host of problems which Jim has just eloquently explained, which leads to a sizable
viability gap.
So essentially we can't bring this, we've spent about a year looking at every option
with a current planning application that we were going to submit to see if we can make
it viable.
The advice we've had from the market is that the viability gap will be too large to be
able to dispose of the site to a development partner to bring that forward.
So the purpose of the paper is the advice to act on the advice
that we've received is to review that planning strategy as Jim
says, submit an outline planning application and let the market
decide what they want to do with it.
With our within our set parameters that we put in with
the outline planning so we're not losing our vision for the
for the site completely that will be set out in the outline
planning application. We had to get this through. We need to
have conversations with one public estate about extending
the Brownfield Land Release Fund deadline because that is March 25.
We have a meeting tomorrow morning at 10 and we are hopeful that will be extended for a
year and we will submit the planning application and market the site simultaneously.
So this will go on, hopefully will secure a buyer, receive planning consent late spring
and be able to proceed with a sale later this year.
So that is the plan and that is what we are asking you to approve today.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:01:08
So, this is an important site for folks then.
It's a lot better than it was because of what we've done.
But in order to build it out, we really need to give incoming developers the opportunity
to use their imagination and bring forward something that our existing planning permission
doesn't allow.
So, while it's been a difficult journey to get to this point,
there really are limited options for us.
We can sit on the site as it currently is and just try and keep selling it,
but we've got no takers for nearly a year it's been offered.
or we can follow the consultant's advice
and take a step back to give this site
a more flexible planning future.
So that's what the report outlines
and I'm very happy to propose the report.
So over to you councillors.
Councillor Prater.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:02:34
Thank you. I think we're all clear and I know Andy is the clearest on this is that in the
best possible world we'd be building social housing on that site and we can't because
we can't afford to. It doesn't financially make sense and I know that he would have spent
time with every spreadsheet in the country trying to work out a way of bringing forward
a scheme whereby you could do just that, whether the bill is sold, whether you do it via opportunity
tax, whether you do it via the HRA. It'd love to, but can't. It's got to add up financially,
it's got to be able to make that work. So that's the unfortunate reality of the society
is that despite the fact that that would feel like a really good way of securing, a cycle
that we secured in central Folkestone and delivering that, it just doesn't work financially.
and therefore it needs to be a mixed scheme brought forward by the owner.
I think what's really important though to remember is that we won't floss the aspiration
that, A, there will be a large percentage of affordable within the outline planning
permission brought forward at that stage, and that I hope that this Council continues
to aspire to own as much of that affordable as humanly possible.
But we can't know the answers to that question until we know who's developing it and have
the conversations with them about what that aspiration would look like. So I'm just clear
that people will look at it and, oh, are they just selling this in order that people can
build expensive flats on it? And that's not the tone. We want to see the site used. We
want to see the site housing people. We want to see homes brought forward which will in
itself help our town centre and our communities be more vibrant and be better placed to live.
It's an excellently located site for people, for transport links and things like that.
but it will also generate affordable homes because the planning permission will require
them to do so.
And if we've got the financial availability to do so at that stage, because a number of
developers find it difficult to dispose of the affordable and social houses within developers
at this stage, if we're in a financial position to do so and to be able to allow them to do
that and bring that forward quickly and know that they've got somebody who would be very
happy to discuss that with them, we can help bring that forward as well.
So I think that's really important to say, is that although this looks like we've got
the site, we've got it as far as we can and now we're offloading it, that is not the end
of this story.
This is a step in the story of Ship Street.
It's to get us to the stage whereby we can have people living there, we can have people
living there in affordable houses, and we can have people living there in socially owned
houses, HRA owned houses as well.
Don't know how many, don't know how many in Ford, don't know what they will look like
yet because that requires a developer with the experience to deliver this.
I keep looking at Andy to make sure he's not fundamentally disagreeing with any point that
I'm actually saying.
He's not yet reached the bottom.
But I just want to be clear that that remains our aspiration of this council is that we
do still want to make sure that that site contains as much affordable as possible and
that we own, we or another social housing provider, own a substantial block of that
affordable housing because it's a good location for it, it's a good logo and it will make
a massive difference to that area to see that developed. As I said it's been empty since
the 1950s which is somewhere between when Jim was born and when I was born.
Is cancer a treatment?
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 1:06:05
Yeah, I just wanted to echo what Councillor Brady was saying, but also that since I came
on board as it were two years ago, Ship Street has been endlessly discussed with officers.
We've tried every which way to make this viable and I think I can really reassure members
that we've tried our best, officers have tried our best, but there are economic and market
realities, things change and I really do think this is the most, this is the best viable
that we can go with, which leaves us with some good options.
So, yeah, I would highly recommend this being adopted.
Councillor Holgate.
I have two conflicting thoughts,
Cllr Rich Holgate - 1:06:46
one of which is...
T -blution is coming out to be too doom and gloom and doom -mongering,
but let's get on with it
and therefore this is good use of money
to do this before someone else does it, as it were.
And, but then I, my other thought is,
125 ,000 is a huge sum of money,
and I just don't want to be in a position
in three to six months time then where we need more money
to dress up at the site in a different way.
And I suppose, what, do we have any kind of guarantees
of the value of that money,
and is that all built into contracts
where we can be, have confidence in that money being spent
is going to move us forward ultimately.
I don't know if there's an observation or a question, but I just, yeah, does that make sense?
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:07:34
I can just to echo what Councillor Spillane said, that this is endlessly discussed.
I've discussed Ship Street with Andy on a weekly basis for the last two years.
And sadly there is no guarantee, but this is the agent's best advice at the moment.
What I would say, I don't know if it offers any reassurance to members, but it was when
we changed our thinking on Bigginswood that we actually unlocked the door.
Now, it didn't unlock easily.
It doesn't have many grey hairs, and you got most of them through trying to get Bigginswood
away.
But Ship Street is arguably more complex than Bigginswood.
So it's going nowhere as it is,
so this is something that we've got to try.
Or it just sits.
And if it sits, we run the risk of having to repay the Branfield Development Grant.
So it's just a choice that we've got to make.
But we make it on the back of officers' recommendation,
which is supported by consultants' advice.
This is about as guaranteed as we can get it.
Sorry, Andy.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:09:02
Thanks. I'll just add to that.
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 1:09:05
We've done a lot of work in the background to de -risk the site,
which was always our aim in the first place,
to de -risk it as much as possible to deal with the market failure
and make it more attractive to the market.
There's loads of work that's been going on in the background,
although it doesn't look like anything has necessarily happened.
There's loads of stuff going on in the background.
so that developers, when they come in,
know exactly what they're going to be dealing with.
So we've done a load of site surveying, we've done site testing,
we're forming a remediation strategy,
we've got a whole host of planning documents done and dusted,
loads of the different surveys, ecology, bats, light, transport surveys,
so it's all done to de -risk it.
So when that goes in, even as an outline planning submission,
we've dealt with what would become loads of pre -commencement conditions
for the incoming developer.
So the biggest one out of that will be the remediation strategy so they can pick up this
document and they know what they've got to do with the site along with the outline planning
for them.
Coming with their reserve matters they can crack on with their remediation because we've
got the two and a half million pounds funding.
Now this is the best way to deal with a site and as Jim says there's no guarantees but
de -risking it in the way that we have and the approach that we're now taking everyone
is on board with that.
I mean don't get me wrong I wanted to find out what I've been 18 months trying to find
way to build out what we have because it was amazing. It would be great for the area, but
the property values, high finance costs, build cost inflation, etc, etc, etc, plus all the
difficulties that you've got with the site have just made it impossible. We've tried
it as for every which way, but we've done as much as we can to de -risk it, maintain
the BLRF, and if we can come out of this with a deal with a developer that breaks even for
the grant funding that we've got and we can break even and cover our costs and walk out
that site with a developer coming in to bring it forward and regenerate the area, that will
be a huge, huge success for the Council, but something that's been derelict since 1958.
And in answer to Tim's question earlier, 134 properties altogether on the outline planning,
30 of which will be affordable, and we have money built into our business plan to secure
those units in the future.
So that is the plan.
Thank you.
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:11:15
So, we have a proposer, that's me.
I don't think we've got a seconder.
Is there a...
Councillor speaking.
Thank you very much.
So we have a proposer, we have a seconder.
All those in favour, please indicate.
Thank you very much.
That's unanimous and that's the end of our business.
So thank you very much everyone and hope the rest of your evening has been as pleasurable
as this meeting.
wonderful.