Council - Wednesday 29 January 2025, 7:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Council
Wednesday, 29th January 2025 at 7:00pm 

Agenda

Slides

Transcript

Map

Resources

Forums

Speakers

Votes

 

Welcome to Folkestone and Hythe District Council's Webcast Player.

 

UPDATE - PLEASE NOTE, MEETINGS OF THE JOINT TRANSPORTATION BOARD AND FOLKESTONE AND HYTHE DISTRICT AND PARISH COUNCILS' JOINT COMMITTEE WILL BE STREAMED LIVE TO YOUTUBE AT: bit.ly/YouTubeMeetings. 


The webcast should start automatically for you, and you can jump to specific points of interest within the meeting by selecting the agenda point or the speaker that you are interested in, simply by clicking the tabs above this message. You can also view any presentations used in the meeting by clicking the presentations tab. We hope you find the webcast interesting and informative.

 

Please note, although officers can be heard when they are speaking at meetings, they will not be filmed.

 

At the conclusion of a meeting, the webcast can take time to 'archive'.  You will not be able to view the webcast until the archiving process is complete.  This is usually within 24 hours of the meeting.

Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Anita Jones
  2. Microphone Forty
  3. Cllr Anita Jones
Share this agenda point
  1. Dr Susan Priest
  2. Cllr Anita Jones
Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Anita Jones
  2. Cllr Paul Thomas
  3. Cllr Anita Jones
Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Anita Jones
Share this agenda point
Share this agenda point
Share this agenda point
Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Adrian Lockwood
  2. Cllr Tim Prater
  3. Cllr Adrian Lockwood
  4. Cllr Anita Jones
  5. Cllr Tim Prater
  6. Cllr Anita Jones
  7. Cllr Tony Cooper
  8. Cllr Anita Jones
  9. Cllr Rebecca Shoob
  10. Cllr Anita Jones
  11. Cllr Tony Cooper
  12. Cllr Rebecca Shoob
  13. Cllr Anita Jones
  14. Cllr Tony Cooper
  15. Cllr Anita Jones
  16. Cllr Jim Martin
  17. Cllr Tony Cooper
  18. Cllr Jim Martin
  19. Cllr Anita Jones
  20. Cllr David Godfrey
  21. Jo Robinson
  22. Cllr Liz McShane
  23. Cllr Anita Jones
  24. Cllr Mike Blakemore
  25. Cllr Anita Jones
  26. Cllr Alan Martin
  27. Cllr Anita Jones
  28. Cllr Jim Martin
  29. Cllr Anita Jones
  30. Cllr Alan Martin
  31. Cllr Jim Martin
  32. Cllr Anita Jones
  33. Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
  34. Cllr Anita Jones
  35. Cllr Jeremy Speakman
  36. Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
  37. Cllr Anita Jones
  38. Cllr Rebecca Shoob
  39. Cllr Anita Jones
  40. Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
  41. Cllr Anita Jones
  42. Cllr Anita Jones
  43. Cllr Nicola Keen
  44. Cllr Jeremy Speakman
  45. Cllr Jeremy Speakman
  46. Cllr Anita Jones
  47. Cllr Nicola Keen
  48. Cllr Jeremy Speakman
  49. Cllr Jeremy Speakman
  50. Cllr Anita Jones
  51. Cllr Nicola Keen
  52. Cllr Rebecca Shoob
  53. Cllr Anita Jones
  54. Cllr Nicola Keen
  55. Cllr Rebecca Shoob
  56. Cllr Anita Jones
Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Jim Martin
  2. Cllr Anita Jones
  3. Cllr Adrian Lockwood
  4. Cllr Anita Jones
  5. Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
  6. Cllr Anita Jones
  7. Cllr Jim Martin
  8. Cllr Anita Jones
  9. Cllr Anita Jones
Share this agenda point
Share this agenda point
Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
  2. Cllr Anita Jones
  3. Cllr David Godfrey
  4. Cllr Anita Jones
  5. Cllr Jackie Meade
  6. Cllr Bridget Chapman
  7. Cllr Anita Jones
  8. Cllr James Butcher
  9. Cllr Anita Jones
  10. Cllr Elaine Martin
  11. Cllr Anita Jones
  12. Cllr Tony Cooper
  13. Cllr Anita Jones
  14. Councillor Tony Hills
  15. Cllr Anita Jones
  16. Cllr Rich Holgate
  17. Cllr Anita Jones
  18. Cllr Mike Blakemore
  19. Cllr Anita Jones
  20. Cllr Tim Prater
  21. Cllr Anita Jones
  22. Cllr David Wimble
  23. Cllr Anita Jones
  24. Councillor Tony Hills
  25. Cllr Jim Martin
  26. Cllr Tony Cooper
  27. Cllr Anita Jones
  28. Cllr Gary Fuller
  29. Cllr Connor McConville
  30. Cllr Anita Jones
  31. Cllr David Godfrey
  32. Cllr Anita Jones
  33. Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
  34. Cllr Anita Jones
  35. Cllr Adrian Lockwood
  36. Cllr Anita Jones
  37. Cllr Anita Jones
  38. Mr Ewan Green
  39. Cllr Anita Jones
  40. Ms Jemma West
  41. Cllr Anita Jones
  42. Cllr Tim Prater
  43. Cllr Paul Thomas
  44. Cllr Anita Jones
  45. Cllr Alan Martin
  46. Cllr Anita Jones
  47. Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
  48. Cllr Anita Jones
  49. Ms Jemma West
  50. Cllr Anita Jones
  51. Cllr Anita Jones
Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Mike Blakemore
  2. Cllr Anita Jones
  3. Cllr David Godfrey
  4. Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
  5. Cllr Anita Jones
  6. Cllr Anita Jones
  7. Cllr Anita Jones
Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Tim Prater
  2. Cllr Anita Jones
  3. Cllr Connor McConville
  4. Cllr Anita Jones
  5. Cllr Anita Jones
Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Tim Prater
  2. Cllr Anita Jones

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:00:04
Good evening everyone, could you remain standing while Reverend Michael Dawkins leads us in
Microphone Forty - 0:00:13
a prayer please. Thank you.
Thank you. If you would like to pray I warmly invite you to join in please as we say Amen.
Let us pray. Tonight, O Lord, we hold before you our Council Officers. Thank you, Lord,
for their tireless commitment to serving the people of this district. Bless all those who
work for the Council as they strive to make life better for the people of Folkestone,
Hawkinch, Hive, Lyd, New Romney and the many communities in this district. May their work
always be rewarding, energised and deeply valued. Amen.
We ask you to bless too those conversations and debates that will take place in this chamber
tonight. Inspire all of us as we seek after the wellbeing and flourishing of all people.
Amen.
And tonight we ask for your peace in uncertain times. As political changes are instituted
abroad and closer to home, we ask you to soothe the anxieties of those worried for an uncertain
future. May your values of justice and righteousness prevail in the hearts of all, and may all
in political office be inspired by the example of selfless love embodied in Jesus Christ.
Amen. Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:01:49
Thank you. So good evening and welcome to the meeting of full council. This meeting
will be webcast live to the internet. For those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed,
you will need to leave the chamber. For members, officers and others speaking at the meeting,
it is important that the microphones are used so viewers on the webcast and others in the
switch it to silent mode as they can be distracting. I would like to remind members that although
we all have strong opinions on matters under consideration, it is important to treat members,
officers and public speakers with respect. Please feel free to sit or stand when speaking.

1 Apologies for Absence

Dr Susan Priest - 0:02:39
Thank you. So item one on the agenda, apologies for absence. Do we have a motion?
Thank you and evening. Thank you chair and evening members,
colleagues and members of the public. We have just one apology
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:02:51
this evening and that's from Councilor Goddard. Thank you.

2 Declarations of Interest

Thank you and item two declarations of interest. Does
anybody have a declaration they would like to share?
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:03:02
OK, moving on to item.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:03:06
Sorry, Councilor Meade is still at Mason. She may or may not get
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:03:14
So, you know, she might, I doubt it.
Thank you.

3 Minutes

Item three on the agenda.
I'm going to sign the minutes of the meeting held on the 27th of November and the 18th of December.
Do we need to ask if there's any comments?
Is everybody happy with those?
Do we need to agree that?
Agreed?

4 Chair's Communications

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:04:01
And we'll move on to item four, Chairs Communications.
So it's lovely to see everyone again this evening and I hope you all had a great start
to the new year.
I'll be brief this evening in my updates as we potentially have a long agenda.
Since my last communications at the end of November, I'm pleased to share that our
council a big sleep out for the Rainbow Centre raised £1 ,955.
This is amazing.
This will support the work that they do with the homeless people in our district.
So thank you to everyone who donated.
for the Rainbow Centre this evening.
I'm sure this will be also gratefully received.
I'm pleased to share that all the tree whips have now
been planted that I was talking about last time.
The remaining ones went to West Hive, Dim Church, and New
Romney.
And I'll look forward to hearing updates on their progress
when spring arrives.
Over the Christmas season, I supported Christmas events
and carol services all over the district.
And then in the new year, I met a number of Kent mayors
and chairs in Margate for the blessings of the sea.
This was a good chance to continue to build relationships
with our neighbours and to reflect on the proposed changes
to our local government structures.
This week I joined Folkestone
for their Holocaust Memorial Service.
It's so important to keep this memory alive
to ensure that something like this can never happen again.
It's also a poignant reminder of how important it is
to live in an inclusive society where everyone is valued.
Thank you.

5 Petitions

So item five on the agenda, there are no petitions.

6 Questions from the Public

So we'll move straight on to public questions.
And again, there are no public questions.

7 Questions from Councillors

And item six.
So moving on to item seven, we have councilor questions.
There are 10 questions from members
which are set out before you.
You are invited to read your question and then the appropriate cabinet member to provide
an answer, the questioner then has an opportunity to ask a relevant supplementary question.
This cannot be a statement.
We have 45 minutes for these questions.
So we're going to start with Councillor Lockwood to Tim Prater.
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 0:06:23
Thank you, Chair.
How much has this Council invested in the work to establish a new committee system of governance
that is due to start in May 2025?
This should include a rough estimate of costs associated with any office of time spent on the same.
Councillor Peter.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:06:44
Thank you, Adrian, for your well -timed question.
As of 17 January 2025,
The charges for the services of Bedlam Britain so far total £70 ,140 and £35.
In terms of officer time that's always more difficult to estimate and it's never usually
included in the costings of a project but the team has tried to quantify it for you.
So the working group have met a total of 14 times, totalling around 20 hours and I can
promise it feels longer.
The Chief Executive, the Assistant Director of Governance and Law and Democratic Services
team leader were present at each of those meetings, which amounts to an equivalent staff
cost time around some £4 ,250 each.
In addition, the time spent on the administration of the project by various offers amounts to
a rough estimate of the Democratic Services Team Leader, about 656 hours, the former Assistant
Director of Governance and Law, about 246 hours, the Chief Executive, 150 hours, the
director of place 100 hours and chief officers around 35 hours in total.
Multiplying that through by salaries gives a total of around £48 ,000.
So the total of all of the above would be, including the staff time, would be £122 ,390
and £35.
However it should be noted that the change to a committee system is also budgeted to
save a net £50 ,000 a year from May on councillors' allowances based on the IRP recommendations.
That saving will mean that the actual cost is recouped within two years,
and would over five years have represented a significant amount
which could otherwise be spent on services to our residents.
That would help.
Thank you. Do you have a related supplementary question?
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 0:08:34
I do, and thank you for that comprehensive answer.
Given the amount that this Council has invested in this project,
and the will and effort that's gone into it.
Would you agree with me that anybody that votes
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:08:55
to scrap this system would be committing political suicide?
Councillor Prater.
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:09:03
I would not vote for the motion this evening.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:09:07
Thank you and we'll move on to question two.
And this is from Councillor Cooper to Councillor Sheebe.
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:09:11
Thank you, Chair.
Good evening, Council Shoebe.
Given the recent announcement by the Secretary of State for Health on 3 January
of an immediate £86 million increase in the disabled facilities grant
to provide over the disabled people with their home adaptions,
they need to leave happy, independent and dignified lives in their own homes.
May I ask, how much of that immediate increase will this council be distributing
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:09:41
to support disabled people across Oathenide and Nombi Wash?
Councillor Shug.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:09:44
Thank you Councillor Cooper for your question.
The MHCLG have advised a total disabled facilities grant allocation and social care capital fund
for the district of £1 ,867 ,983 the year 2025 -26.
This is the figure published recently by government.
This includes a social care capital fund element and the total allocation is initially passed
to Kent County Council who then transfer the DFG element to each of the districts and boroughs
across the county.
We anticipate that we will receive a final DFG allocation of £1 ,665 ,915 for the year
25 -26.
In the current financial year, we received an allocation of £1 ,439 ,970.
So the £25 -26 allocation is an increase of £225 ,945.
So the funding will be spent on a district -wide basis.
Households assisted must have a need for adaptation works within their home, which is confirmed
by the KCC occupational therapy team.
We assist approximately 60 to 70 households across the district each year so that they
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:11:20
can continue to live independently in their homes.
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:11:23
Do you have a related supplementary question?
I do, Chair, thank you.
May I ask then, in respect of that,
given there's going to be an increase in, obviously,
more than 60 people a year being helped,
can we actually put that on our social media channels
and get the information out there?
Because there may well be people, but in the district,
we may want to actually apply but not know what the rules are.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:11:42
That would be appreciated, thank you.
Yeah, I'm sure we can do as much as we can to publicise it
and I encourage everybody to raise it
with anyone that approaches them,
that's where it's a viable option
and something that they might apply for.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:11:59
Thank you, so moving on to question three
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:12:04
from Councillor Cooper to Councillor Jim Martin.
Thank you, Chair.
Good evening, Councillor Martin.
Given the recent requests made by government
by Kent County Council and Medway Council
regarding the evolution recently,
obviously causing concern that two residents
and to staff due to the uncertainty this has created.
Does this Council have a staff redeployment policy on what is being done to reassure them
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:12:27
in this obviously uncertain time?
Thank you.
Councillor Martin.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:12:31
Thank you, Councillor Cooper, for your excellent question.
I apologise in advance for the length of my answer, but as you know, my concerns about
local government reorganisation are primarily maintaining and delivering our service levels
to residents and we cannot do this without the full and continued cooperation of our
staff.
The council has a managing organisational change policy and procedure which has been
in operation for a number of years and is applicable to any change or restructuring
process regardless of whether there are any planned redundancies.
This is to ensure a fair and consistent approach every time our employees go through change.
The policy itself is very clear and states that whenever possible the council will try
to avoid compulsory redundancies through a range of measures which are set out in the
associated procedures, including restricting recruitment,
exploring voluntary redundancy or early retirement options,
natural wastage of staff, and reducing the use
of agency staff.
Indeed, if councillors cast their mind back
to the recent transformation restructure
that took effect in April 2024,
a target of two million pound savings,
including on costs from the salaries budget was set.
The target was achieved by initially undertaking
a complete review of the salary budget
and removing posts which had been vacant for some time
and not filling some posts
located during the financial year.
Following that, a comprehensive voluntary redundancy scheme
took place with each application being considered
against a pre -agreed criteria.
After consultation on the proposed structures
had concluded, the HR team identified
several suitable redeployment opportunities
and ultimately only three compulsory redundancies took place.
Since the government's white paper was published
on the 16th of December last year,
the Chief Executive has held several briefings for staff
to ensure that they are as up to date as possible
with the developments as they are happening.
However, clearly there is still an awful lot of uncertainty
whilst we await the outcome of Kent's application
to be included in the priority programme.
And if accepted, what that will mean
for the rest of the authorities within Kent.
These briefings will continue on a regular basis
as we understand more over time.
Just as a side note on this,
the chief executive and myself attended a meeting
of the Kent leaders forum the day after the white paper
was published and as everyone was giving their view,
the chief executive passed me a note saying
we would have to concentrate on supporting staff,
counselling and retraining wherever necessary.
And I wrote back on the same note, agreed.
So you know, really from the first thought
was about how we would support our staff.
A central email address has been set up
to enable staff to send in any questions
or concerns they may have.
This may be on a personal level
or could be more related to devolution
and local government reorganization generally.
That email address is monitored by our chief HR officer
and corporate policy advisor.
They are already pulling together
a set of frequently asked questions
which will be regularly reviewed and added to
as we learn more over the coming weeks and months.
The chief executive has been setting aside time slots
in her diary for any member of staff to be able to ask questions, raise concerns and
also generally talk about their career aspirations.
And to that end she has also been working closely with the Section 151 Officer and Chief
HR Officer to be able to offer a larger staff development budget over the next couple of
in order to support staff in their own additional development.
Whilst it is early days, I can confidently reassure councillors
that HRT have a wealth of experience in supporting staff
through change and uncertainty.
The support that can be offered in -house
ranges from personal resilience and understanding change,
planning retirement through to writing CVs
and competency -based interviewing skills
through to coaching sessions for staff facing redundancy.
Our staff also have access to the employee assistance program,
which is available 24 -7, providing advice and guidance
on a wide range of issues.
Obviously, it can be difficult to reassure staff
when the future is so uncertain.
However, we do know that reorganisations such as these can take a considerable amount of
time, but the day job has to continue no matter what.
So whether we are FHDC or whether we enter a new unitary, that will be the message that
the senior team are conveying at every opportunity.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And do you have a related supplementary question?
I do, Chair.
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:18:42
Thank you for that very comprehensive answer, Councillor Martin.
Can I also suggest that we also recognise within the Council that the residents out
there are paying the Council tax that we actually provide the services and we need to ensure
that the staff that we've got…
Sorry, is this a question or is it a statement?
Right, I do apologise.
I do apologise.
Can we just reassure the staff and the residents that everything will be done to make sure
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:19:07
that the services continue irrespective of whatever it may be?
Thank you.
I can absolutely give that guarantee.
Thank you and we'll move on to question four from Councillor Godfrey
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:19:17
to Councillor
Polly Blakenall.
Thank you chair.
Cllr David Godfrey - 0:19:21
How many councils does it take to repair a street lamp?
Behind that somewhat lighthearted opening is a serious subject.
In October 22 an Otwich resident reported a 40 street lamp of crossroads in the Dijy
crossroads in Otting but after more than two years the street there has still not been
repaired.
Numerous emails have been exchanged between County Council, this Council and councillors
with various excuses being given but Otting's residents are still waiting for the lights
to go on.
The Inland Parish Council have repeatedly pursued this issue for their residents to
know of it.
I have provided the cabinet member with a timeline of the communications throughout
that period which is to my opinion a listing of failure by this council and Kent County
Council in their duty of care to this small village lodging cabinet of options. It's not
surprising that residents are a little bit disappointed and disenchanted by local government.
Could the cabinet member please intervene urgently and resolve this issue as soon as
possible. Thank you.
Councillor Blakery.
Jo Robinson - 0:20:29
Thank you, Councillor Godfrey.
And first of all, let me just say, if it had been a light bar that I needed replacing a
couple of years ago, we would have been able to do that ourselves immediately, but unfortunately,
we're at the mercy here of UK Power Networks.
This single light does not have a working power supply at the moment.
It is one of the few outstanding assets to be repaired in our LED upgrade project.
We are still awaiting UK Power Networks or their authorised third party which have been
chasing continuously with the KCC contractor for several months.
The transportation manager has chased again this week to get an update and we are awaiting
a response and I will be making sure that that comes to us as soon as we get it.
But as I said we are in their hands and all we can do is keep chasing.
Do you have a related supplementary question?
Yes I do.
It's rather sad that we can give the residents excuses.
How about would the committee member be prepared to write to the clerk of the Eamonn Parish
Council and apologise for these days and confirm that they are doing everything possible to
push this forward?
Certainly, I have the certainty to do that on behalf of us and KCC and UK Power members.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Moving on to question five from Councillor McShane to Jeremy Speakman.
Good evening.
Given that the council said in the press release last year on the 11th
Cllr Liz McShane - 0:21:48
of September 2024 that
the preference was for the library to remain in Gracehill, can the cabinet member for assets
and operations confirm that since this press release was published that no further discussions
have taken place with KCC about the library moving into the Polka building? Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:22:06
I understand that Councillor Mike Blakemore is answering this one.
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:22:10
That is correct, yes.
Thank you, Councillor, it's only at falls within my portfolio. Thank you for your question.
I can confirm that there have been no discussions with KCC about the potential to relocate the
library into Fonker since last September. Officers have however engaged with KCC on
the public consultation which was undertaken last year and the outcomes of which were publicly
reported last week. I'd like to reiterate that this council's stated position is a strong
preference for the library service to be reinstated into Grace Hill. Arising from this, I very
much welcome KCC's decision to discuss the community proposal for the library which this
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:22:47
council supported more than a year ago.
And do you have a related supplement?
Thank you.
We'll move on to question six then from Councillor Alan Martin to Councillor Jim Martin.
Thank you.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:22:59
We are witnessing multiple power generation projects emerging across the district and
neighbouring districts.
Consultations are specific to each development.
People are rightly concerned about the scale and impact of these individually, but a wider
concern is the cumulative effect of multiple projects submitted separately by different
companies.
This fragmented approach leaves residents uncertain about what's being proposed and
even if one plan is approved, there is no guarantee about what might follow on other
sites.
It is clear that the government is likely to support the majority of these proposals
given their stated aims at a national level despite our best efforts locally.
What can the council do to advocate for a more coordinated approach that would allow
our communities to respond to a unified set of proposals rather than dealing with a tsunami
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:23:50
of peace bill submissions?
Councillor Jim Martin.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:23:59
Thank you Councillor Martin for your question and one on which I think follows a similar
one you asked me in November.
This is a question that will challenge all rural communities across the country and particularly
in the southeast.
From a national policy context, generating clean power is an important growth opportunity
driver for both local and national economies.
It supports action in response to climate change
and will increase energy insecurity.
I do, however, have a great deal of sympathy
for residents who are concerned about the number
and scale of the energy generation projects proposed
across this district, particularly those on Romney Marsh.
These proposals will, of course, be subject
to public consultation through the planning process and the best way to make local views
known is to take every opportunity to respond to these and I hope that our town and parish
councils can help residents to do this.
Each individual application will need to consider the cumulative impact of their proposals and
any other existing or approved development applications when presenting their proposals
to the Secretary of State.
Notwithstanding this, I would be very happy to write to the Secretary of State for Energy
Security and Net Zero on behalf of this Council to stress the need for a local perspective
on any strategic approach to the delivery of major energy projects which are to be determined
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:25:47
at a national level.
And do you have a related supplementary question?
I do, thank you.
So first of all, thank you for that response
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:25:57
and for offering to write a letter.
I think that would be very well received on the marsh.
Maybe a question relating to something
that could go into that letter.
One of the concerns people have
around the fragmented approach is it becomes very difficult
to actually monitor this cumulative impact
and in particular the strategic land use,
in reality individual developers.
Sorry can we move to the question please?
Thank you.
On the basis that developers actually create their plans
around the availability of land
and land owners willingness to sign,
what can the council do to ensure
the best and most versatile agricultural land
in our district continues to be prioritized and protected for food production, whilst
other grades of land may be flagged for energy and other development.
Thank you very much for your supplementary.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:27:02
It will be difficult for us as a council to grade land in terms of, you know, grade one
agricultural land, grade two.
What I think we would be able to very helpfully do
is to try and address this piecemeal tsunami as you describe it.
I think that we could possibly play a coordinating role
to keep the parishes and towns aware of what the cumulative impact will be,
because it's very, very easy for someone,
particularly if they're months or years apart,
getting letters of notification,
not having heard about an earlier project,
just assuming that the latest notification
is about that project, when in fact it's two projects
or maybe even three projects.
So I don't think we could get involved
in grading agricultural land,
but we could certainly play a coordinating role
in terms of these applications that we're anticipating.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:28:10
Thank you.
Moving on to question seven from Councillor Mrs Hollingsby
to Councillor Jeremy Speakman.
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:28:17
Thank you, thank you Chairman.
I understand the paper is going to cabinet in March
on the proposed office move from the Civic Centre.
In view of the devolution white paper
and the fact that within two years
FHDC is unlikely to exist. Will the decision on location be deferred until the new structure,
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:28:41
probably an East Kent unitary, is in place?
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:28:43
Councillor Speakman.
Yes, good evening, Councillor Hinesby, and many thanks for your question. Your point
is actually very well made, obviously with the view of the local government reorganisation,
which we're all having to grapple with.
And before, you know, we need to fully consider the implications
before progressing both what you're referring to regarding the
Civic Center and other major projects.
Indeed, the Cabinet are actively discussing the development of all
major projects at the moment to take a view on the timing and
implications of key decisions.
It's a complex process and at this stage no definitive position
has been reached, but I can assure you that full consideration will be given to the forthcoming
local government reorganization and ensuring that any decision will be of course in the
best interests of the council.
Do you have a related supplemental question?
Yes, thank you for that answer.
I just would ask that all councillors are involved in that major decisions on different
assets.
I can absolutely assure you.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
And question eight, sorry can we have some quiet please?
Question eight from Councillor Mrs. Hollingsby
to Councillor Shub.
Age UK, how I live in New Ashford,
are shortly surrendering their lease
for Everest House Limbinge, a building owned by FHDC.
As well as the Age UK facilities,
It currently houses a cafe and charity shop, which the surrounding villages are anxious
about losing.
I know that the Chief Housing Officer is looking at what happens next and is keen that it will
provide housing for local people, which is very welcome.
However, the community would like to have a space in any development for a cafe -social
area.
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:30:40
Will the cabinet member for housing seriously consider this request and ensure that local
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:30:47
people are consulted before finalising plans for the building?
Thank you.
Councillor Shub.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:30:49
Thank you for your question, Councillor Hollingsby.
Following Age UK's decision to surrender their lease and hand back one to four Everest Court
Council, the housing team have completed an initial survey of the premises.
This will enable us to update the stock condition data we hold for this property and update
the last plans we have on file as rooms have been used for different purposes over the
last 20 years.
The Council is currently engaged in the legal process with the lease surrender which we
envisage will be completed by the 31st of March this year.
Whilst the Council is very keen to re -convert the building back to much needed affordable
homes in Liming for local people, we stress that no firm proposals have been put forward
as yet and there's a great deal of background work to be done before we can even consider
what would be needed to be done to revert the property back into flats and along with
any timescales involved.
Whilst we recognize that local community want to try to keep the café as a community tub,
It's too early for us to consider any such proposals at this stage.
I can, however, confirm that we will seriously consider this request and ensure that local
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:32:14
people are consulted before finalising any plans for the building.
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:32:15
And do you have a related supplementary question?
Thank you very much for that.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:32:21
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:32:22
Okay, so we move on to question nine from Councillor Keane to Councillor Jeremy Speakman.
Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:32:27
At a recent meeting with water companies where we were discussing the issue with the sea
water quality along the folks in High District coastline, some of the blame was placed on
our goals.
One of the options to address this was more rubbish bins.
Can I please ask when these bins will be available and ask that they are in place before the
start of the summer season?
Councillor Sweetman.
Yes, thank you.
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:32:55
Good evening, Councillor Keene, and thank you for your question.
If I could just put this in a little bit of context in relation to that particular meeting,
not sure everyone is there, but Councillor Keene is referring to the presentations that
were given by the Environment Agency on Southern Water on the 14th of January about bathing
water quality.
That's the one at Fokuson Sunny Sands, which of course is one of the six bathing waters
the Environment Agency have designated in the District.
Sorry to go on in context, but I think it will help.
In the meeting, the Environment Agency described the sample testing they routinely carried
of bathing water.
In the case of Folkestone, they also had carried out further testing on two samples looking
for DNA markers.
One test had identified human and seabirds feces and the other just seabirds.
So the meeting discussed actions being carried out to investigate possible causes of all
contaminants i .e. checking for misconnections.
In relation to seabirds it was acknowledged that as a coastal location this would be difficult
but several actions were discussed that could possibly suppress the effects from a number
of gulls.
These included warning the public against feeding birds, warning about not littering
notably on the beaches and reviewing the litter bin provision in that area.
The last action is done in advance every summer and will be done so again.
We already add extra bulk bins to Coronation Parade for the summer season and this will
continue.
We're also looking at the merits of adding some solar compacted bins to the state and
seafront as has been deployed in the coastal park for several years.
However, I think what is really key in all of this, as a key message, just to get across
to the public is that protecting bathing cords is yet another reason for not littering in
the first place and taking all these out.
Do you have a related question?
Yes, I'm really pleased that we're looking at the extra bins because I think I've knocked
one of that back for about five or six years now.
But also when we're doing that, as dogs also got the blanket, we have some dog waste bins
as well because there are none along Coronation Parade and lots of people walk their dogs
and I really do think as a council that we should start to think about the season when
residents of Harbour Ward are inundated with visitors.
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:35:19
If I could perhaps have an opportunity to discuss that with you after this, that would
be very good to do that.
Yep, thanks.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:35:28
Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:35:34
Question 10 from Councillor Keene again to Councillor Jeremy Spigman.
I'm not picking on you Councillor but Street cleaning in Folkestone has once again fallen
below the expected standard.
Can I please ask that prior to the start of the summer season that more is done to keep
the streets clean and the public bins empty.
The streets need cleaning more regularly and emptying bins more regularly.
Councillor Speakman.
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:36:00
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:36:00
Thank you again for your question.
Sorry to be controversial on this, but I don't believe that the street cleansing infection
has actually fallen below the expected standards according to our performance indicators.
But obviously, as always, I would be happy to challenge the earlier on service being
provided.
If you could send me the details, I will be happy to look at them.
But remember, we're not having any evidence that I've seen that there is a significant
issue.
I'm obviously happy to look at that again.
Thank you.
Question 11.
From Councillor Keene to Councillor Shue.
I've got a supplementary.
Oh, sorry.
I've missed the supplementary.
In that case, Councillor, I hope you won't mind if I give the residents of Harbour who
email me at this time every year and all through the summer.
Sorry, is this a question?
It is a question.
I hope you won't mind if I give them your email address.
That would be my pleasure.
Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:36:56
Apologies.
and we'll move on to question 11 now from Councillor Keene to Councillor Shub.
Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:37:01
It's highly commendable that we have found £250 ,000 for green grants while there seems
to be nothing being done for residents living in uninhabitable and dangerous privately rented
properties.
Then waiting months for folks in the High District to complete inspections due to lack
resources can we please find some resources to make sure that residents are not living
in substandard properties.
Councillor Shub.
Thank you Councillor Keene for your question and I agree it's great news that the cabinet
has approved the Green Grant Scheme which will help organisations and groups to implement
environmental improvements.
There are estimated to be approximately 6750 private rented properties in the district.
The Council's private sector housing and housing options teams work closely with a
number of local private landlords who provide both temporary accommodation for homeless
households and long term homes which helps us prevent homelessness.
The vast majority of the private rented homes in the district are located in Folkestone
itself and it's our experience that most landlords responsibly manage and maintain their properties.
In 2023 -24 the private sector housing team improved 286 properties through working with
the landlord and tenant to resolve the hazards or through formal enforcement action.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:38:43
The team receives between 200 and 300 service requests every year. With regards
to your question which states there seems to be nothing being done for residents
living in uninhabitable and dangerous privately rented properties, I can advise
that all reported cases are triaged and the private sector housing team would
never leave someone in uninhabitable or dangerous situations. When there's a
In support of an issue in a privately rented property, the private sector housing team
will always try to ensure any issues are rectified with the landlord quickly and amicably in
the first instance.
However, should the landlord's proposals for remedial works be insufficient or are
not completed within the stated time period, we will move to a formal enforcement action.
The property will be subject to a full assessment under the housing health and safety rating
system with a view to taking the appropriate action as a result.
This may take the form of an improvement notice which gives a statutory time scale for completing
the required works.
The private sector housing team currently has about 50 cases on its waiting list and
and some of those cases may also
relate to potential empty homes.
Waiting times are lower at the moment
than they have been in the past,
including during and after the pandemic,
and the team is achieving
some excellent outcomes.
The current team resource
consists of one manager and 3 .6
full time equivalent officers.
If any members are approached by tenants
directly concerning their housing conditions, then please you must encourage them to report
the issues directly to the private sector housing team and we will investigate as soon
as we possibly can.
This can be done online on the council website if you look for private rented home issue
or by telephoning customer services on 01303 853660.
As I'm sure you're aware, the government's pending Renter's Rights Bill aims to transform
the experience of private renting by ending section 21 or no fault evictions, as well
as creating a private rented sector database, introducing a new private rented sector landlord
ombudsman, applying the decent home standard to the private rented sector along with AWAB's
law which will set clear legal expectations about the time frames within which landlords
must take action to make home safe where they contain serious hazards.
And finally strengthening local authority enforcement by expanding civil penalties,
introducing a package of investigatory powers and bringing in a new requirement for local
authorities to report on enforcement activity.
However, at this stage it's not clear whether any new burdens funding will be available
to help local authorities adequately resource the new measures this legislation will bring.
The bill passed from the Commons to the Lords last week.
It's expected to get Royal Assent in April 2025, with parts of the bill becoming law
immediately and other parts, such as the decent home standards, is expected to be rolled out
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:42:20
at a later stage, possibly in early 2026.
Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:42:22
Thank you.
Do you have a related supplementary question?
Yes, I do.
At the Kent Housing Group private housing subgroup meeting,
which was held in November 2024,
and attended by officers from our council,
they had found good evidence on a number of homes
category one hazards in private rented sector. Would it not have been wiser for this council
to use that 250 ,000k that we've given to green guards to employ people to get those figures
down that we shouldn't have 50, we shouldn't have any that are waiting to be inspected.
Human rights are that everyone should live in a warm safe home and they're not in folks
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:43:14
I absolutely agree. It's so important. It's fundamental that people have safe homes to live in.
And I can only commend the team that we have. As I've said, they do work really hard to resolve the issues that are flagged.
And I would just encourage, as I've said, anyone who has an issue or knows of someone with an issue, please get it reported and the team will look at it.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:43:42
as soon as possible.

8 Announcements of the Leader of the Council

Thank you and that concludes the questions for this evening and we're going to move on
to item 8 on our agenda, announcements from the Leader of the Council.
Our leader will have 10 minutes to speak and then each opposition will have 5 minutes to
respond and so, Councillor Jim Martin.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:44:04
Thank you very much, Chair.
Good evening, Councillors.
I hope you all had an excellent Christmas and New Year.
Immediately after our last council meeting,
I joined Chair, Councillor Jones,
together with Councillors Prater and Blakemore
in a sponsored sleep out on behalf of the Rainbow Centre.
We, as the Chair has reported,
we raised a significant amount of money,
but my abiding thought was I'm very glad
I don't have to do this every night.
I will concede that with the number of layers
I had put on, I look more like the Michelin Man
than the Councillor.
I was pleased to organize a meeting
for district Councillors, KCC Councillors,
and town Councillors with the Environment Agency
and Southern Water to discuss the specific issues
surrounding the decline in water quality on sunny sands.
I've also been in regular contact with Southern Water
and have held meetings with them online and in person.
These meetings principally concern the sewage spills
into the sea and the quality of our bathing water.
I have further meetings with Southern Water
and Environment Agency planned,
but without massive financial investment
into their ailing infrastructure,
there is absolutely no simple solutions.
I have been chairing the committee considering applications under the Rural Prosperity Fund
along with officers and board councillors.
The fund is now fully subscribed.
I am however pleased to note that the Green Community Grants Program received the go -ahead
from CABNET.
This program of grants will be aimed primarily at town and parish councils, community buildings,
schools and church halls with the intention of reducing
their carbon footprint and reducing energy costs
to community groups.
Our corporate plan is almost ready to be published.
There have been significant input from all parties
represented in this chamber and I am grateful to the members
for their ideas, suggestions and advice.
I hope everyone in the district will find the corporate plan
useful in understanding the intention of the council.
I have attended many meetings regarding Otsepal Park
with Sojourn Joseph MP, parish councillors,
government agencies, developers, consultants.
These discussions have been positive and will continue.
I am happy to confirm we are now in a final agreement stage
of the collaboration agreement with Homes England,
sorry, with Homes England, who wish to appoint a project manager within the agreement to
report directly to them and we are in fact interviewing their proposed candidate tomorrow.
I've attended the business advisory board meetings and a meeting of the Chamber of Commerce.
I've held a number of meetings with other businesses.
This council is a friend to good business.
I attended the 30 year celebration of Eurotunnel
in the Leescliff Hall.
The sale of folks from the leisure center
has been tended by the administrator,
by the administrator appointed by the principal creditors.
I have been told unofficially that all bids made
included the retention of the swimming pool.
I understand the administrators have selected a winning bid
and the legal agreements are in hand.
I will update members as soon as I hear any results.
On the 16th of December, our world changed
with the publication of the government's
white paper on devolution.
All district councils in two tier systems
are to be abolished and new unitary authorities
will be created.
My guess is that we will talk about this process
endlessly for the next two years and five months before we are abolished.
Personally, I think the process is an erosion of local democracy
and continues the central government tradition of double -speak.
Affordable housing, which is unaffordable,
localism, which is anything but local,
and now devolution, which is in fact enforced local government reorganisation.
If, as appears, we are in the Government's priority programme, we will need to submit
unitary proposals with others before the end of March.
I have promised to consult with councillors every step of the way, so I need all councillors
to start to think about which new unitary they think we should join to shape the best
future for our residents.
I have attended many Kent Leaders Forum meetings to discuss the evolution and local government
reorganisation.
Sadly, there has been no time to discuss anything else.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:49:24
I have also attended meetings of the East Kent Leaders Forum.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Sounds like you've been very busy.
Councillor Lockwood.
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 0:49:31
Thank you.
Thank you, Chair, and thank you to that comprehensive update and for everything you've done.
What you've said here is noted.
I take slight exception to the comment about erosion of local democracy.
I'm just hoping that this slightly odd arrangement
we have of the leader reading out a prepared statement
and the opposition responding on the hoof will vanish
when we move to the committee system in 2017, in May.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:50:13
Thank you, and Councillor, Mrs. Jenny Hollingsby.
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:50:19
Thank you, Chair.
I'd just like to say congratulations to everybody who slept out.
I know what it's like.
I did it previously and I have to say I really wouldn't want to do it again, but I probably
will.
I just welcome the continuing conversations you have with Southern Water.
I think that's important for the district and thank you for that.
On the Rural Grant Prosperity Fund, that was excellent.
Lots of communities have benefited from that and I was hoping that they might be able to
continue but instead we've got the Green Grant which will obviously help also local communities
which is one of my interests.
Corporate plan, yes I've attended most meetings and I'm looking at it or we are looking at
it as a group.
On Otterpool Park, I know how many meetings you've attended.
I know how many other meetings related to Otterpool Park that you have attended.
I will be pleased to see this collaboration agreement go forward because, you know, time
factor is really important.
The more time we lose, the more it's probably going to cost and that is a concern.
I welcome obviously your meetings with the Business Advisory Board and businesses in
our local area.
I don't know whether you count GPs as local businesses,
but they are local businesses.
My GP told me yesterday that he may have to cut back on staff.
He's finding it very difficult to make ends meet,
especially with the increase in the national insurance contributions
that employers will have to make.
I wonder whether you might put GPs on your list to visit,
because I think that could be very useful.
It's good news to hear that there is a winning bid on the folks in Leisure Centre and I look
forward to hearing the results of that.
With regard to devolution, I think most of us in this chamber probably would agree with
your comments on that it's not actually bringing local government closer to local people because
In fact, when we're a unitary, it will be further away.
But it's necessary to have all these conversations about devolution.
I think everybody's mentioned how much work will be involved
in moving to a unitary.
It's just unbelievable.
I was listening to the scrutiny committee last night
I think the leader clearly stated all the work streams that would need to be undertaken.
So I think it's no mean feat.
So that's why I will be putting the motion on the move to the committee system, probably
in a minute.
And thank you.
I just thank you for your report and I think that's all I need to say.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:53:55
Thank you.
And Councillor Martin, you have five minutes right of reply.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:54:00
Thank you very much.
It's very difficult not to be doom and gloom
in terms of we're going to be abolished.
I will be the last leader of Fochtenhire District Council.
I will lock the door and post the keys back through the letterbox.
So, in a different mindset,
I may look at the advanced use of unitarisation,
I may look at the advantage of the installation
of a mayor of Kent, but at the moment,
they've yet to dawn on me, put it that way.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:54:41
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:54:41
Thank you.
So we need to seek a proposer.
Councillor Martin and a seconder.
Thank you.

9 Portfolio Holder reports to Council

Item 9 is our portfolio reports.
We've been asked just to note them.
I hope you've all read them.
Our cabinet members have been working incredibly hard with the officers,
and I would just like to say thank you for all your hard work
and for producing some really thorough reports
so that we know what you've been up to.
So thank you again.

10 Opposition Business

Item 10, we don't have any more questions.

11 Motions on Notice

move on to item 11, which is motions on notice. We have one motion from Councillor Mrs Hollingsby.
She will present the motion. It will then need to be proposed and seconded, and it will
be open for debate. We have 60 minutes allowed for this motion. I would like to remind members
that they may only speak once on the motion, and your speech may not be in the form of
exceed five minutes. And that hopefully if you bear that in mind that a lot of
people might like to speak on this motion please of see keep it brief if you
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:56:09
can. So councillor Mrs. Hollingsby. Thank you chair. I'm putting
this motion forward in view of the current devolution and local government
reorganisation. What it does is to ask the Secretary of State to allow us to put forward
a motion to revote the move to a committee form of governments and to remain as a leader,
cabinet governance style.
I'm not going to read out the first part of the motion where council notes because I think
everybody is aware of that and it actually was commented on earlier. But council believes
in circumstances, it seems unreasonable to continue a working group taking up Councillor
and Officer time in addition to the training of staff and providing resources to support
the proposed committees and subcommittees under the committee system.
With the likelihood of moving to a unitary within two years, resources will be required
to assess the impact on the District Council.
It will be disruptive and costly, and resources will be required to consider the staffing
situation, looking at how assets will be dealt with, how this will affect communication with
local residents, and to prepare for the transition.
With limited resources and after a transformation program carried out last year, it is absolutely
imperative that the best and most appropriate use is made of existing resources.
This reorganization, this is because of a government reorganization program, KCC and
district boroughs will be replaced by unitaries.
So FHDC, as the leaders just mentioned, will be abolished.
In view of the challenges of this situation and the huge amount of work required to merge
with partners, whoever they may be, officers and staff will have to take on new streams
of work, engage with our counterparts of our partners, as well as continuing the day -to -day
business of the Council and continuing to move to a committee system will only add to
this burden.
My group want the council to look after staff and officers in very challenging situations
when they are also probably concerned about their futures. It would therefore be counter -productive
to add in additional work that really is not necessary.
Also other councils in Kent, apart from Swale, operate under a leader cabinet style of governance.
Keeping our leader cabinet will enable portfolio holders to meet with their respective portfolio
holders in our partner organisations and be able to have some decision -making opportunities.
This would not be possible under a committee system.
And our residents, how will they react to a change in the way the council works in May
2025 and then another change in 2027.
The leader at scrutiny yesterday, and I did listen, listed some of the work streams that
will be necessary and could not emphasise enough how much work there will be to do and
that didn't even include what might be required in respect of Otopel, which is a big work
its own right. Do we want to stretch our resources, which are extremely limited, to move to a
committee style of government? Or do we want to put our resources towards making sure we
get the best possible outcome for a new unitary and for our residents, staff and officers?
And I know some of my colleagues will be talking about costs.
And I've looked at costs.
And it was quite interesting because I obviously knew from the first question.
And I looked at costs and I remember that a budget of 100 ,000 was set.
I didn't realise and I don't suppose anybody else realised that that budget has apparently
been well exceeded.
And so, 100 ,000, I'm told here, under the question, it was 122 ,000 plus officer time.
Okay, so in the budget, there is a saving of 50 ,000 on Councillor's Allowance.
I understand that, but how much more have we got to spend on going to a committee?
How much more officer time, how much more time will we be spending on going to a committee
that in two years time will disappear?
So I would ask members, please put your own personal agenda aside and vote for this motion.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:01:45
Thank you.
Thank you and do we have a seconder?
Cllr David Godfrey - 1:01:53
Councillor Godfrey and would you like to speak on this?
Yes, thank you.
I absolutely agree that I think it's going to be a disaster to have officers and councillors
engaged in continuing to try and develop a committee system.
There's still a lot of work to be done.
We've heard that it costs $120 ,000 so far.
Councillor Prater suggests that there might be $50 ,000 of savings when we move to this
system and as Councillor Holliday -Ponsby points out, that actually we don't know that that's
true because we don't know how much more it's going to cost us to get to that system.
And with the words of the leader quite openly saying that we're going to have so much work
to do over the next two years, whether we like it or not, it just seems a complete waste
of money and time to go forward with this system which we're not going to use.
To be honest with you, Councillor Pate has had a vision of a committee system for some
years where I've been on this council and I'm feeling very upset that it's going to
be crumbling into dust but it really should be put aside.
It should be put aside and we should get on with the job of working together to get the
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:03:03
best result out of whatever unitary we've got to get into.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:03:09
So we're open for debate now and we're going to start with Councillor Meade.
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 1:05:10
Thank you, Chair. I'm here before you today to oppose this motion brought forth by the
Conservative group to defer the implementation of the long -agreed transition from a Cabinet
to a committee system. This motion, if passed, would not only delay meaningful progress,
but also deprive our Council of the opportunity to deliver on its promise to increase transparency
and accountability. As a member of the Labour group on this council I was
elected on a promise to make this important change. As a member of the
Labour group on this council I took part on the debate with all members at the
end of which we all took the decision that this was the right way forward for
the community. Let us remember the reason we embarked on this transition in the
place to create a system that is more democratic, transparent and accountable.
The committee model is not simply an administrative shift, it is
fundamental reform aimed at empowering more voices, enhancing deliberation and
making decision -making processes more inclusive. By deferring the
willing to delay the advancement of those principles. The Cabinet system has been a
source of criticism for years, as Councillor Mead has just referred to. It has often been
criticised for concentrating power in the hands of a few, sidelining critical perspectives,
and fostering an environment where it has been felt that decisions are made without
proper security, a scrutiny, I beg your pardon. The committee system offers a vital opportunity
to dismantle these inefficiencies and bring decision -making back to where it belongs in
the hands of the people through their elected representatives. Moreover, deferring this
change undermines the trust that the public has placed in us. We have committed to this
shift and we have assured the people we serve that we would usher in a more open, accountable
form of governance. To backtrack now under the pretense of deliberation or caution would
be nothing short of a betrayal of that trust. Our residents deserve better. They deserve
leaders who stand by their promises and prioritise progress over political expediency. A delay
is not a solution. It is merely a way to put off facing the challenges that are inherent
in any system overhaul. And yes, challenges such as devolution will arise, but we are
Council capable of adapting, learning and growing. The committee system, once implemented,
will allow for greater flexibility and responsiveness to our community's needs. It will create
more room for debate, more avenues for expert input and ultimately better policy outcomes.
Let us not allow shabby political gainsmanship to dictate the future of our governance. The
committee system is a reform that we agreed upon together, an agreement that should be
honoured. We owe it to the people we serve to take bold action and move forward with
the agreed changes, not continue to postpone them. In conclusion, I urge you to reject
this motion to defer the implementation of the committee system. The time for change
is now and the people are waiting for us to deliver on our promises. We have an opportunity
to set a new standard for governance, one that is inclusive, transparent and accountable.
Let us not squander it.
Thank you and we'll move on to Councillor Wimble.
Thank you Chair. Now I didn't write any notes for this because up until tonight we
still don't know whether Kent County Council, this Kent is going to be included as one of
the ten. There's seventeen councils being put forward to being fast tracked. All I'm
saying is when the Labour Party came into power they didn't mention this in their
manifesto. This has come out of the blue to everybody, officers included. So why don't
we just wait and find out whether Kent One is going to be one of the councils that is
going over to unitary. I personally wouldn't like that to happen. One thing that I am actually
going to agree with the Labour Party on here is we did have a democratic vote. I've always
liked the cabinet system, however we voted for a committee system so that's what we should
have if we're going to carry on as a council. If, however, we find out, and originally was
told it was last Friday at five o 'clock, then it was going to be Monday, then tonight, and
then I spoke to the Chief Executive tonight, she hasn't heard either, I check every night
at five forty five. But this week we're expected to find out whether Kent is going to be one
of the counties that goes forward. If we're not going to go forward, then fine, go ahead
your committee system. As much as I don't like it personally, that is democracy.
If we are going to go into a system where we team up with Ashford, Dover, Canterbury and Thanets,
and instead of having 30 councillors represent our area, we have, for those of you who read the paper,
which I did several times, probably six to eight councillors covering the whole area,
then why are we wasting taxpayers' money on the system that is going to be moriband
within two years. So I'm just saying if we're going to do, Kent County Councils could be
abolished, boats and hives could be abolished, there is no point wasting tax payers money.
If we are not going to, then by all means go ahead with the committee system.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:11:05
Thank you. Sorry, could you switch off your microphone please? Thank you. Apologies, sorry,
that's alright. So we're going to move on to Councillor Butcher.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr James Butcher - 1:11:15
For me, this isn't about the benefits or otherwise of the committee system.
It's about what we're faced with now and the progress we've made to date on implementing
the committee system.
It seems to me when we have the pre -meet for audit and governance and look to the latest
version of the Constitution, it's clear there's plenty still to be sorted out.
So for example, the relationship between the two committees, which seems to be a hierarchical
one was something that was new to me and unclear how it would work in practice.
I think the reaction to Councillor Hollingsby's plea about all members being included in the
decision about moving the offices, do we know that that is a decision that will be made
by the whole Council rather than delegated to Strategy and Resources Committee?
That scheme of delegations is mentioned but not yet sorted out.
We don't know fully yet how we would run the scrutiny part of meetings.
That's still to be clarified I think.
and we've now got this idea of lead members in the draft constitution,
which again was new to me and I think isn't yet clear.
So there's plenty still to be sorted out in theory,
let alone how it's going to work in practice.
So I think I would have expected by now,
given the other large organisational changes I've had some dealings with,
that we would have been doing some scenario testing
for how decisions are going to be made.
We'd have had some practice meetings.
We'd have clarified our interaction with officers under the new system
and so on and so on.
The one thing we do know is that a lot more responsibility
will be devolved to the shoulders of officers,
just as they are taking on this mammoth task
of local government review, local government reorganisation,
and for a change that has to be temporary.
So, it looks as if the new unitary is going to be run by a cabinet system.
So, whether we like it or not...
We can't have a conversation across the chamber.
I'm saying in all likelihood it's going to be a cabinet system.
I would have thought given the component councils,
the rest of them operate as a cabinet system.
So yes, we are reversing the democratic decision that we made.
We're doing so within the framework that's laid down for doing that.
And I'd hate to live in a world where we couldn't revisit democratic decisions
when the circumstances have changed.
That's a mad kind of world.
and it's a mad kind of world, it's the sunk cost fallacy
to say because we've spent money on something,
we should carry on doing it no matter what.
I'm making the choice I'm making
because it feels to be the right thing to do,
and if that's political suicide,
that's a consideration that does not enter into my head.
I think we should be making a decision
that feels to us right to our staff, to our residents,
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:13:53
and that's why I'll be supporting the nation.
Cllr Elaine Martin - 1:13:59
Thank you. And Councillor Elaine Martin.
Thank you Chair. I've no experience at all with local government and the organisation
but I do have experience of large corporate systems integration and let me tell you it's
an incredibly complex process. I worked on the integration of the IT systems from that
west when they were taken over by RBS and the work involved many people at both technical
and managerial levels and it cost millions and millions of pounds. The idea of integrating
to organisational systems is difficult enough, but to think about integrating with three
or four different council organisations is mind -blowing. And when you have to integrate
not only the IT systems, but also housing, waste management, finance and council tax,
I believe it's the more we can lighten the load on the officers, the greater the chance
we'll have at succeeding with the task ahead. The move to the committee system was part
of the local Green Party Manifesto pledge,
which I was fully committed to.
But local government reorganization will have such an impact
on both officers and members.
This is not the right time to do it,
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:15:08
and this is the reason I'm going to be supporting the motion.
Thank you.
Thank you, and Councillor Tony Cooper.
Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:15:15
Thank you, Chair.
Can I remind members,
we heard at the start of the question time tonight,
that there was a £70 ,000 bill to go to Bevan, etc.,
for the advice and support already made.
Every member of this council, about eight to nine weeks ago,
received an email from the now monitoring officer,
which clearly stated that was the Constitution.
We've also had further meetings of the Constitution Working Group,
which is also included, among other things,
the elected representatives of each particular group.
So this is not all of us a surprise.
And last year, when we came to this decision last year, 12 months ago, last January, it
was put back on the basis that it worked out, further work needed to be done.
Now with Denderdale, last 12 months, further work has been done.
The council taxpayer out there, the people who actually represented, that we represent
and who voted and participated in the local elections, voted for a change of the committee
system.
Let me cast your mind back to May 2019.
I was sat in the audience there, and there was a group of Councillors here
who had a democratic decision and it was 16, 15 votes for abolishing the Prince's Parade.
And what did the cabinet system do? The cabinet system said,
on your mic, not even the kitchen, do you know?
So it doesn't matter as far as the cabinet system is concerned.
The people out there didn't care. They weren't interested.
Now, at the end of the day, part of the reason that we decided to go to a cabinet decision
was because it was more democratic.
There is nine councillors here, out of 30 of us, who make decisions.
Now the rest of us, with all due respect, should not be acting on the hoof.
We should all, in accordance with the wishes of the electorate, be involved in that decision -making.
We shouldn't be told later, or whatever.
Now, I'm going back on what Mrs. Holinsby said.
She said earlier about this, but let me make this quite clear.
The Conservative controlled Kent County Council, yeah, could have said no.
But they decided with Medway to actually go for this.
But anyway, irrespective of all that, I've received an email.
No, not from Rachel in the counts, but from a lady called Debbie.
And what she says is this, and I think it's very important that we consider this.
And it says this.
Hi Tony. I understand at the council meeting this week there is a motion to undo the progress
of moving to a committee system. As my representative on the council, I would like you to take into
consideration that I believe that a committee system is a much more democratic way of making
decisions that affect me. And this is the important part. Here on Romney Marsh we are
often overlooked and I think that the work that is already being done regarding this
matter is going in directions that can correct that. Now at the end of the day, let's not
isolate people, let's not push people further away, let's get them involved. And I for one
will be voting against the motion because the people in this district at the last elections
said they wanted a democratic system of governance which was the committee system. Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:18:28
Thank you.
Councillor Tony Hills.
Councillor Tony Hills - 1:18:36
Thank you, Chair.
It's a strange position I'm in here,
because basically on 16th December,
we had a letter from the Labour Government,
Jim McMahon,
and he didn't give us any options.
He said, you're going to be changing how you are governed.
You can go quick or you can go slow.
And that's slow, it's like two years behind.
So it's not that slow, it's within this Parliament.
So here we are.
I do respect what the Council decided to go to the committee system.
I've actually been involved in both, but they have their merits.
One thing that's impressed me
is how well the cabinet systems work in this Council.
It agrees.
I'm just trying to be honest here,
it's been a good system with very good members.
And we have to adapt.
Now, this decision is forced on us by a Labour government,
but they are the government, and I accept it.
They want a massive majority,
and they decided to do this route.
And there are cases up and down the country,
Andy Burden's done some great stuff in Manchester,
has been proven, so strategic mayoral authorities
coming whether you like it or not.
Now, when it comes to things like unitary councils,
you know, it's so scary what stuff
they're going to have to go through.
And by march, this side, how they're going to join up,
it puts tremendous pressure under the leader and others,
and most likely will their cabinet system
at Unitary as well.
I don't know, but most likely,
because 10 out of 12 in this county are cabinet systems.
So basically, here we are.
Now, I understand that Dr. Pritchett
has done some fantastic work with the staff
on getting ready for, which is quite a shock to the system,
to go to the committee system.
But then, having this out of left field
happening at the same time,
I just think it puts too much pressure on everybody.
I'll be supporting the motion, of course,
not just on the conservative,
but because I think it's the most pragmatic way forward
to cause less grief to this district.
And I'd like to see all our efforts
focus on making sure we get a good unit from town hall, et cetera.
I'm going around as a county council,
I'm going around to my district talking to my parish council,
which I have aimed, and they're all good,
but they're going to have to take on
so much more responsibility.
I've argued for years that parish councils shouldn't pay,
so they get a better gene pool
to choose from at parish level,
so the average age comes down, and so on and so on.
But I was out when I was on New Robbie Town Council,
I was outvoted 15 to one.
So it's possible, I've passed it ahead of my time.
But this is gonna have to happen.
This is gonna have to happen.
We're taking on more responsibilities.
Because if you go from unitary,
which could well be us, right down to Thanets
and up to Canterbury, and maybe one or two others,
it's so big an area.
And as members have said,
and you have eight councillors from Fergson High,
Ditch Waterby, Fergson High.
So, it's gonna mean parish councils
are gonna have to work much, much harder.
Now, I did say at the council meeting,
when I was talking about this,
and the decision was taken at Kent,
I actually see it as an opportunity.
I said, many years ago,
I was trying to get independence from Romney Marsh.
And I still would like that.
I said, I'd like to see a Romney Marsh council,
a natural area we can actually work within
and carry that forward.
It's going to be very tough.
I've got most of my staff at County,
I'm trying to reassure them,
because we've got so much work ahead of us in the next couple of years.
We've got some great staff here, some great staff there, by the way,
and it's going to be very difficult to us to keep their morale up
like going through this process.
So I'm wishing Jim the best of luck.
If I give any help to him, I will be.
It's not a party thing, this is simply a case.
We want to do what's best for our district.
But thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:22:58
Thank you. Councillor Holgate.
Good evening, thank you.
Cllr Rich Holgate - 1:23:05
Our Labour colleagues mentioned delivering promises
to protecting pensioners, cutting energy bills,
compensating waspy women, not raising taxes, and now even going back on non -Doms.
Five areas Labour have rolled back on promises and manifesto pledges at a national level,
all justified on the common sense that there are things known now that they didn't know before.
Black holes and all that.
Now for us here, many of us set out with the best intent to make things better
in the political landscape of May 23, had closed off Tory administration without collaboration or transparency,
initiatives such as Princess Parade being done to residents, not with them.
it was a one -way road.
So it was obvious that a committee system would dramatically
right many of the wrongs of that time, and I supported that.
Since then, and whilst waiting for a committee system,
and we have made huge efforts to improve collaboration,
improve transparency, and work as a collective chamber.
And we continue to do so.
All in all, I think we have done as well.
Thank you, Councillor Hills, for the nod on that one.
Look at the devolution briefing just a couple of weeks ago,
the engagement numbers at our consultation events.
Our committee chairs are made up by our opposition.
Our leader is constantly reiterated.
We are open to all conversations from all people,
from all parties.
And it's a mantra that I fully subscribe to.
On the doorstep and around the district, residents
are telling us, and me specifically,
that the council is more responsive, more two -way,
and more accessible.
We have already begun to right those wrongs,
and long may that continue.
Now, January 25, we face the end of this council.
Labour and the deputy prime minister
are driving devolution through, whether we like it or not.
Shades of the Tories in Princess Parade, perhaps.
Pushing this community system through will gridlock this council and its officers from
delivering core services.
It will put pressure on officers and their capacities, and critically staff retention
will become an even bigger issue than it already is.
If we lose staff, recruiting for a closing council will be nigh on impossible.
Services will suffer and residents will suffer.
So I ask this, for what possible reason should we die on our hill and ignore the reality
of the situation that we're in and continue blindly forward?
Is it because you want more input? Well I refer you again to those principles of openness.
Is it because you want a quote seat at the table? Not only do you chair committees, but
I remind you that there continues to be an open invitation to join the cabinet and it's
only your national party that are stopping that happening. Or is it because you wrote
down two years ago in your manifesto, as we did in the Green Party, and if that's the
case then I encourage you to take a leaf out of your national party's book, recognise
the change in landscape and make difficult decisions for the benefit of the officers
who work tirelessly and are residents that you represent.
Councillor Lockwood, you rightly ask perhaps that Councillor Prater,
if voting for this motion could be political suicide,
it's such unnecessary dramatic language.
But I think you've hit the problem nail on the head of your group's position.
This is not a political decision, or it shouldn't be.
This is an operational one, a common sense one, and a resident -focused one.
Do not let the constraints of your lanyard blind the decision tonight.
And if you can't comprehend voting for a Tory motion,
if that hurts your political ambitions too much, then just abstain.
Finally, if indeed voting for such a motion
and pausing the move to the committee system
is the end of my political endeavours and so be it,
because I'm not here for the politics,
I'm here for the good of our residents and our communities.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:26:20
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 1:26:23
Councillor Mike Blickmore.
Following that.
Thank you, Chair.
Going back on a manifesto commitment is no small thing.
I was in the public gallery in 2019, I would have seen you there Tony, when the vote on
Princess Prey took place and it was ignored I think not even by Cabinet, I don't think
it even got to Cabinet, I think the leader chose to ignore it personally.
That ain't going to happen again in the next two years, I wouldn't countenance being part
of such a thing, certainly not going to happen after 27 or 28 because no one is going to
be succeeding us.
There's no merit in sticking doggedly to something that no longer made sense.
If someone was to come to us now and say we should change to the committee system, we
should change the system by which the council is run, the answer would be rightly no, it
makes no sense when the council only has two years to run.
The committee system would barely be bedded in, teething troubles eliminated with a lot
of effort by officers and councillors alike before the council was abolished.
We owe it to council staff and to residents to make every day count in the enormous task
ahead, not to waste time making a change that no one needs and no one
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:27:30
will benefit from.
Thank you.
We're on to Councillor Tim Prater.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:27:40
Thank you, Chair.
I want to move an amendment, which I'm going to read out and then I will give my reasons
for doing so.
The amendment reads, to add to Council notes that the draft budget for 2025 -26 is predicated
on the moved committee system. It makes a net saving of £50 ,000 a year on allowances
and SRAs for the year 25 -26. And then to add to Council results, in the event the Secretary
of State's consent is granted or notification of her decision is received after 31 March
2025, the 25 -26 budget brought to this Council next month should still reflect a net saving
£50 ,000 on allowances and SRAs.
I hope I've got a seconder and if I do I'll speak to the amendment.
Do you have a seconder?
Councillor Lockwood.
Yeah, I'm happy to second that.
So, Councillor Prater, if you're going to outline your amendment.
My reasons for this amendment.
Paragraph 3 .3 of the reassuringly expensive looking report which you have in front of
on this motion says the current members allowance scheme of allowances would also remain and
the projected changes to the budget as a result of the IRP recommendations which is a growth
of 9000 in basic allowances and savings of around 58000 in SRAs would not be applicable.
Those over there, read that again.
It means that the budget that is currently in the final stages of coming together and
has huge challenges in terms of making it balance, but it will, includes a net £50 ,000
saving on allowances and SRAs built into it. The savings that a committee system brings
to this council are already factored into this budget because we're committed to do
it. And if this motion passes unamended, then the budget would have to be amended to allow
provision for those extra costs, because you wouldn't get the saving.
So which service would you like to cut for that?
Which service would you like to charge more for to make that happen?
Which officer should we no longer employ?
Because I'm here to say there is no way of just hiding that extra cost.
I mean, even more, recent decisions have already required that we make a significant, unexpected
provision for costs in the next financial year.
this would be another such provision for costs.
So that's why I've moved this amendment.
I'm sure no -one here is voting tonight to pay councillors more next year
than we were planning on doing so,
so let's at least make that clear in this motion.
We'll have to bring you back a proposal of how we would hold to that budget
and to the circumstances we don't proceed to a committee system,
but it allows us to plan and pass a budget next month
with totals that make some sense.
And to spell out the point, which was also made in my answer to Adrian earlier,
yes, there was an upfront cost of our work on the committee system,
about £70 ,140 .35 plus staff time,
and that's nearly all spent.
The money is done because the work is mainly done.
But it also has a corresponding reduced annual cost.
It pays for itself.
It pays for itself within two years.
But if you kill the change now, you kill the saving. Now.
So, even if I can't persuade you to vote down this motion,
and trust me, in a few minutes I'm going to give it a really good try,
then please, at least save this budget and support the amendment to this motion
so that we're not spending money on councillors, but spending money on services.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:31:33
We are now going to be debating the amendment which means that the floor is open to all
councillors to speak again but it must be on the amendment.
So would anybody like to speak on this?
Councillor Wimble.
Cllr David Wimble - 1:31:54
Thank you chair.
What I think Councillor Prater is forgetting is this is a lot of work that might be totally
unnecessary because we won't exist in two years if we go into this unified council
where we join up with five others.
If you stop the work now, you're not throwing good money after bad.
He's saying we're going to save £50 ,000 over the next two years.
But these officers are already going to be working so hard to work with other
officers and County Hall and leaders from Ashford, Dover, Thanet, Canterbury,
which is, if you read the white paper, the most likely people that we're going to join
up with. I don't know about you, but on the Marsh we don't have an awful lot in common
with Thanet, and I'd rather my officers were working hard to get that right. If we're going
to go that route, which I don't want, let's get it right. And spending time so that we're
more democratic for a council that's about to be abolished seems a waste of time for
So I would vote against the motion and suggest that we concentrate on the here and now,
sorry the amendment, not the motion, the amendment,
because this is going to be a rough two years ahead of us if we do have to have devolution.
If we don't, I'm all for the committee system, one that I voted against, but that is democracy.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:33:21
Before we carry on with the debate, I'm just going to read out the amendment again so that
people are clear what we're debating.
I think somebody had asked for that.
Councillor Proater suggested that we add to Council notes the draft budget for 2025 -26
is predicted on the move to a committee system.
It makes a net saving of 50K a year on
allowances and SRA's for the year 2025 -26.
And to add to the Council results,
in the event the Secretary of State's
consent is granted or notification of
her decision is received after the 31st of
March 2025, the 2025 -26 budget brought
to this Council next month should still
will reflect a net saving of 50k on allowances and SROs.
So we're going to carry on with Councillor Hills.
Councillor Tony Hills - 1:34:23
Thank you, Chair.
I have sympathy with Councillor Prater.
It's like having your fox shot, isn't it?
It's very sad.
But I think when was, I'm losing my mind.
And has got it, famous, well famous scene on TV.
I think he has it right.
We are going to enter into such an amazing amount
of hard work, and my main thrust is to get the best deal
for my residents and protect my officers,
because we are going to have an awful lot to do.
So I can't support the motion.
I don't know what you're trying to achieve,
but I think, remember the point you made,
I do support the motion, and it's a tricky one, I agree.
But I really want to give this council and our leader
the best possible chance of getting the right deal going forward.
I don't think the amendments are going to cause more grief.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Councillor Keene.
I think I'm probably one of the only people,
apart from you, Councillor Hill,
that have had the evolution happening before.
I was in Kent when Medway became,
and it went through really smoothly,
and it went through smoothly
because we had officers doing a job.
They did a wonderful job, and I mean, I wasn't for that.
I really wasn't.
I thought it was really sad that they were going
to the unitary and would no longer be part of Ken.
But you know, it happened.
There was nothing that happened during that time.
This is bigger, but there's more people working on it.
Nothing happened in that time
that made any officer work any harder.
We all had to do things towards it,
but it didn't make our jobs any harder.
This is gonna be a bigger, a much bigger,
I suppose, ball of fire, but it's gonna happen,
and there'll be more of us in it, so we'll be managing it.
But I'm just disappointed that I no longer have trust
in some of my colleagues in here.
That what we promised and people worked on,
and our offices worked on, is no longer gonna be happening
because of devolution. You can't blame devolution on us not going to a committee system. It's
an excuse. But what I would like to say, I wonder if every cabinet member is prepared
to drop their SRA and their allowances in line with what a committee system would be.
That would be wonderful because we'd have that 50 ,000 but how many of the cabinet are
prepared to do that? To say right, we'll cut it to what it would be under a committee system.
Because no one's in here for the money.
I just want you to realise that the trust has gone out of here tonight and it will never
come back to me.
Thank you and do we have anybody else who would like to speak on the amendment?
Councillor Martin, Jim Martin.
Thank you very much.
Tony can you switch your mic off please?
Cllr Jim Martin - 1:37:25
Thank you very much Chair.
I won't be supporting the amendment, although I fully understand why it was brought.
Councillor Prater does an excellent job in managing our finances and of course his primary
concern is always about cost and he shouldn't be criticised for that, he should be applauded.
So I fully understand the need for this amendment but I won't be supporting it.
I think that it unnecessarily complicates the question which is in front of us.
And as I understand the motion, it is to write to the Secretary of State in order to ask
their permission for us to reconsider the decision.
So the question of committee system or cabinet system is not the substance of the motion.
The substance of the motion is to ask for permission for us to reconsider.
So it will come back to us.
But in terms of the...
I fully understand the amendment.
I fully appreciate it.
But I think it unnecessarily complicates a very straightforward question.
Thank you.
Councillor Tony Cooper.
Cllr Tony Cooper - 1:38:49
Thank you, Chair.
I support the amendments quite simply because the council tax payer out there has got a
council tax bill to pay in April.
I think personally they would welcome a £50 ,000 yearly savings on their council tax bills
given you've got a cost of living crisis.
And what I would also add is this, within the report itself it says the council is only
allowed every five years to make a decision in respect to changing its management arrangements.
Now, we can write it to whom we want, but we've got no guarantee of an answer before
the appropriate deadlines in March, contained within this report.
Now this Council, and every member of this Council next month, has got to set a legal
budget, otherwise we are penalised.
Now I think we need to focus our attention on the savings, on the benefits, and also
our legal responsibilities to the taxpayer and to the electorate out there.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:39:53
And for those reasons I must be supporting the amendment. Thank you.
Councillor Gary Filler.
Cllr Gary Fuller - 1:39:58
Thank you, Chair. I don't really think this is actually a very complicated decision really.
What we're effectively saying is that if tonight we decide that we're going to explore the possibility of moving away from the committee system,
should we come to the time of setting our budget, we will set a balanced budget, we
won't make officers try and rebalance it, rejig things, get things from little pots
of money here and there to make it all balanced, we'll just agree that should we end up in
the committee system in May, we'll all take, or probably SRA recipients will take a pay
just to make things balanced.
I think it's quite evidence of goodwill.
It's saying that if we are going to go back on our word,
at the very least we'll show that we're doing it not for the money,
but because we feel that we actually have to go back on our word.
It's really no more complicated than that,
which is why I'm going to support the amendment.
Cllr Connor McConville - 1:41:09
Councillor Conlon.
Thank you.
It's very odd.
I can't recall a time where I would support an amendment to a motion that I would then
vote against.
It's very much not in the way that things should be done.
But again, with a bit of a finance brain on me like Tim.
You know, the budget is draft.
It's in publication.
I think regardless of where we are come May of this year, that budget will be agreed next
month and that budget should stand.
And once that budget is agreed and whatever way the decision goes, the letters come back
and forth, assuming the vote goes the way I think it's going to go, then it'll be up
to the council to decide how allowances and SRAs fit to meet the budget that's been voted
for.
That's quite simple.
So I'm quite happy to support the amendment and then, crazily enough, almost vote against
it again.
But there we are.
Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:42:25
Do we have any other members who would like to, oh, Councillor Godfrey.
Cllr David Godfrey - 1:42:32
Yes, I'm sorry but this sounds a bit like filibuster to delay something unnecessarily.
We've not heard at all, we've heard about a possible budgeted 50 ,000 saving, we haven't
heard anything about how much it's going to cost us more to go into this.
I think the budget is going to change rapidly over time, which everywhere we go.
Officers will be tweaking and working to a new regime and having to amend budgets no
matter what.
So I think this is just smokescreen to delay things and I don't think it's necessary and
I would definitely oppose this amendment.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:43:14
Is there anybody else who would like to speak?
Now as I understand, Councillor, Mrs Jenny Hollingsby has the right of reply as she is
the motion proposer before we go to a vote on the amendment.
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 1:43:33
Thank you, Chair.
Very interesting.
I completely understand Councillor Prater's question or his motion, because that's his
job, that's what he's been doing for us, and doing a very good job, I must say.
But he knows probably more than anybody else
that he will be able to find 50 ,000.
He will find it somewhere.
I know that. It's happened before, it will happen again.
And like Councillor Godfrey said,
it's a moving budget in a way,
because there will be quirks and changes.
So I think it's a red herring and I certainly won't be raging for it.
And in terms of the devolution,
KCC and Medway have put forward,
because they've been asked by the government,
they'd like to join the early devolution programme.
Sensible decision as far as I can see,
because if you leave it, you won't get so much help and money.
if we do it now, we will get some support,
and the district councils will get some support.
So it seems to be a sensible decision,
a sensible decision to stay as a cabinet,
and not move to committee,
and not spend any more money out.
There will be money to be spent out
to move to the committee system.
There is training, there is all sorts of things,
actually working with officers, new officers to take minutes at the committees, etc.
So there is lots of money to be spent out.
We won't be spending that out, we will be saving that.
He will find 50 ,000.
I bet he will want a balanced budget, he will find 50 ,000.
So please do not vote for this amendment and I hope you will vote for the main motion.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:45:53
Thank you.
So I think we're going to go to a vote on the amendment.
Councillor Lockwood.
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 1:45:59
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:45:59
Can we have this recorded please?
Yes, that's fine.
And we need five people to...
We have more than five, so that's fine.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:46:15
Mr Ewan Green - 1:46:23
I'd like to remind you this is only about the amendment and not about the motion.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:46:30
If this passes, then that becomes the substantive motion.
Ms Jemma West - 1:46:32
But for the moment, this is just the amendment.
So just so you're aware, if you're voting for what Councillor Fraser has suggested or
against or if you're going to abstain.
Councillor O 'Kelley.
Councillor Mike Blakemore.
Against.
Councillor Polly Blakemore.
Against.
Councillor Butcher.
Against.
Councillor Chapman.
For.
Councillor Cooper.
For.
Councillor Davidson.
For.
Councillor Fuller.
For.
Councillor Godfrey against Councillor Holgate against
Councillor Mrs Hollingsby against Councillor Hills against
Councillor Jones against Councillor Keene for
Councillor Lockwood for Councillor Alan Martin against
Councillor Elaine Martin against Councillor Jim Martin against
for Councillor McShane for Councillor Meade for Councillor
Prater for Councillor Scoffin against Councillor Shoegh against
Councillor Speakman against Councillor Thomas against
Councillor Walker for Councillor Wimble against
against.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:48:20
So we have 12 who voted in favour of it. We had 17 who voted against, so the amendment
the original motion. For fairness, we are going to continue with the list that I had
already got of people in order that they had asked to speak. I'm going to ask Councillor
Prater, he hadn't spoken on this motion because he spoke an amendment, but he will now speak
on this motion. Can I also remind you of the time? We have about six minutes left.
Cllr Tim Prater - 1:49:00
Thank you.
This motion would be more impressive if it wasn't coming from someone who has opposed
the committee system from day one.
The same tune with updated lyrics.
This motion is asking our officers to write to a Labour Minister to allow us to overturn
a decision in the teeth of opposition of the local Labour Party.
I do wonder what the Labour Minister might say.
And to do that we would then suspend our work on moving to a committee system
until we get the response back from that Labour Minister.
This motion doesn't stop the move to a committee system.
It can't. It even says it can't.
It delays getting on with it until we get a letter from government.
And I don't know about you, but I for one am heartily sick of waiting for letters from government.
And if, as it seems likely, we get told to get on with it by the Labour Minister,
we then really will have a rushed process which will put pressure on the whole organisation,
officers, staff, councillors, leaders and a lot.
That's not the way to run a sensible, stable council.
It's dangerous.
I'd like to avoid that risk.
We should be in control of our own destiny based on our previous decisions.
And we should continue to implement the committee system because we said we would.
We're honourable people that do what we say.
This might be our last significant chance to prove it.
This will offend some people in this chamber, but, you know,
I'll leave with as many friends as I came in with,
but the huge majority of people in this chamber were elected for a key reason.
The reason they were elected is that they were not the Conservative candidate.
The voters wanted change, and they voted for change.
They didn't vote for us to support a Conservative motion attempting to stop change, no matter
how much we argue that the landscape has changed.
We came into this, we came into this to make change.
We came into it to democratise our system.
We came into it to share power.
We came in to involve residents.
And we've written the constitution that's ready to go, that does those things.
Most of the work is done. The time spent on it is done.
It's mainly, mainly, ready to go, Councillor Butcher.
It's good. It also tackles a number of current weaknesses in our current constitution.
It's found a number of groups that we're represented on,
that we didn't even know existed any more, and some that don't.
we should use that new constitution.
And now's not the time to say it's too hard because we might not be here soon.
That's the best time to do this.
We should do it to prove we can,
and we should do it to prove it's the right model for our successor bodies as well.
Because if we don't, who will?
Because it's the case we should be putting for the formation of a new unitary authority as well.
The political geography of a Kent unitary authority, no matter who's in it,
could end up with a cabinet system without a single Folkstone and Hind member in it, for example.
Leave aside political exclusion, we'll have geographic exclusion as well.
We should be pushing for the committee system in East Kent.
And the best way to push for a committee system for that East Kent unitary
is to show that it works and to show that it works from here.
To say we're in the cabinet system but we'd like a different one for our successor is
a rubbish argument.
Now, don't get me wrong, I don't support the current rush to local government reorganisation,
I'm afraid.
I had bigger hopes of this government than to offer councils the choice between by being
hit by the fast train to district reorganisation and being hit by the really fast train to
local government reorganisation.
Just to learn that the difference between fast is you'd get to do this by 2027 and slow
to do this by 2028 ain't much of a choice.
And I'd also hope that the government had actually addressed the funding crisis in local
government that is social care before they did this thing, because they are creating
an East Kent unitary authority before addressing the social care costing and it is dooming
it to financial failure from day one unless they take that budget off it.
It's doomed to financial failure.
Medway's already in special measures and Kent is hanging on by its teeth.
it would have gone if they haven't taken this route,
which is why they have taken this route.
And it will be worse for East Kent.
And never mind that, we're now here to shape the future representation
of the residents of our district and protect their interests.
One key way of doing that is to reinforce our town and parish councils
and our local organisations and increase their say and their assets.
I'm sorry, you'll need to finish there.
We need to move on to our next councillor,
Otherwise we're going to be out of time.
You've had your five minutes.
I haven't.
You have.
It's been timed.
Councillor Keane, you're next on my list.
Thank you.
I've said a lot.
And Councillor Paul Thomas.
Yeah, thank you, Chair.
So our reorganisation last year was a key enabler
for the new committee system to align our officers
with the arrangements that we were putting in place
for that committee system.
We've been through that and that's the system we have now.
We deferred the decision to move to the new committee system to allow us to get it right,
to give us that time to put all the things in place that we needed to do.
All councillors, as we've already heard, have already received a copy of the new constitution
and as Councillor Butcher has said, we've had an opportunity to look at it and make
recommendations for the things that need tweaking before we go to implementation.
And just to pick up another point from Councillor Butcher,
we all receive training and advice in this very chamber
on how an overview and scrutiny operates
within a committee system.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:55:13
So there is a corporate knowledge of that.
The resolution itself doesn't hang together, in my opinion,
for the simple reason that the second paragraph asks
us to halt work to move to a committee system immediately
and defer moving to a committee system pending
the response from the secondary state.
But the first of those items on there, the third paragraph, says that we will go ahead
with it if we don't get a decision by the 31st of March, which seems a little bit incongruous
to me that we wouldn't be ready to go forward then because we already have a plan of the
things that we need to do between now and the start of May when we implement this.
And so I think, from my perspective, it is important we carry on with the preparations
as we've laid it out for this moment in time.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:56:03
Thank you. And I think... Are we out of time?
Councillor Alan Martin.
Cllr Alan Martin - 1:56:18
I can do justice to it in 15 seconds
unless you're going to grant me a little bit longer.
OK, well, if you're happy to let
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:56:28
Councillor, Mrs. Hollingsby, sum up for us.
So again, because it's your motion,
you get now for the right of reply.
Thank you, Chair.
I think I'll put forward a few more motions
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 1:56:41
if I'm allowed to speak more often.
I take exception to the fact that I'm putting this motion
because I've always been against a committee system.
That's not true at all.
I am putting this motion
because I think it's a common sense approach.
It seems a sensible thing to do.
Why waste officer time,
counsellor's time,
on something that's going to disappear in two years' time?
It just seemed to me an absolutely ridiculous situation.
So, I would ask members to vote for this motion.
I think, you know, we've talked about the budget.
I know Councilor Prater will find 50 ,000.
He's quite good at doing that.
And also, in terms of Councilor Thomas,
he said, of course, that it is just asking
the Secretary of State, yes, that's true,
but we have to do that in order to put forward a motion.
But it seems a sensible way to proceed, to allow officers the time and the space to actually
work out a programme of how we're going to move towards a unitary.
We're definitely moving towards a unitary.
From all what I've read today, we're likely to hear from the government either tomorrow
or Monday morning and it seems from what I've read
that we will be included, or Kent and Medway
will be included in the devolution program.
So I think that we can just accept that.
I think, you know,
Councillor O 'Praider said that I'm bringing it forward
because I've always been against it.
I accepted the democratic vote.
like other people.
And I'm hoping that should this motion be agreed, that Councillor Prater can do the
same.
Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:58:58
So we're going to move to a vote.
And we'll be voting, I see a clip.
Certainly we can.
Have you got five?
That's fine.
So it will be a recorded vote and I see everybody's clear that we're now just voting on the motion.
Ms Jemma West - 1:59:13
No amendments.
be for Councillor Hills or Councillor Jones for Councillor
King against Councillor Lockwood against Councillor Alan Martin
for Councillor Elaine Martin for Councillor Jim Martin for
Councillor McConville against Councillor McShane against
Councillor Mead.
Councillor Prater.
Against.
Councillor Scoffin.
For.
Councillor Shubbe.
For.
Councillor Speetman.
For.
Councillor Thomas.
Against.
Councillor Walker.
Against.
Councillor Wimble.
For.
And Councillor Wing.
For.
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:00:43
So there are 16 for 13 against so that has no abstention so that has passed.
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:01:04
Okay, so we're going to move on with our agenda.

12 Folkestone & Hythe Community Safety Partnership Plan 24-27

On to item 12, we're going to be – sorry, can we quiet them down, please – which is
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 2:01:31
and do we have a seconder? Councillor Elaine Martin and would you like to speak? Just briefly,
because we're all tired. I commend the community safety plan to the council. It's an excellent
piece of work, I think, which reflects the excellent work that the community safety partnership
does for our district. We're very, very fortunate here in the community. And I think it's a
to work with an extremely good group of partners and this plan
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:01:59
reflects the excellent work
that they do.
Thank you.
Would anybody like to speak on this?
Cllr David Godfrey - 2:02:06
Councillor David Godfrey.
I would just like to endorse what Councillor Blakemore said.
Before this administration changed, we had the Community Safety Unit working well together.
I spent a lot of time with them.
and they did an excellent job, so absolutely support you.
Councillor, Mrs. Jenny Hollingsby.
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 2:02:25
Yes, I would like to just say as well, excellent plan,
great work, thank you to all the officers.
I know that the voluntary partners and the police
and all the other organizations work very closely,
and I know that the team is actually reducing
within the civic center, so even more.
So well done, and thank you.
Please pass on our thanks to the staff.
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:02:48
Thank you and I believe we need to vote on this.
We did have a seconder.
So all those in favor of the part the plan.
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:03:04
Think that's unanimous.

13 Designation of Monitoring Officer under Section 5 of the Local Government and Housing Act 1989

Cllr Anita Jones - 2:03:05
Thank you, so we'll move on to item 13 on our agenda.
The designation of monitoring officer under
section five of the local government and Housing Act 1989.
So do we have a proposer?
Councillor Tim Proater and do you have a seconder?
Councillor Conor McConville and Councillor Proater,
Cllr Tim Prater - 2:03:27
would you like to speak on this?
Just very briefly, this report notes the departure
of Alan D. Crout as the Assistant Director
for Governments and Law.
And after that departure, the role of Monitoring Officer
of this council is an important one and needs to be vested
in a person. The recommendations are in front of you. The intention of this is to designate
Ewan Green as the permanent Councillor Monitoring Officer under the Local Government and Housing
Act and also to note that the deputy monitoring officers will be the excellent Andrena, Nicola,
Paul and Gemma and I look forward to working with the whole team and I ask for your endorsement
for those recommendations.
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:04:07
Thank you. Are there, Councillor McConville?
Cllr Connor McConville - 2:04:11
Yeah, only to add my thanks to the personnel committee for their work on this and especially
their points around having those deputies in place.
I think offering as much support as we can to you and I'm sure you'll do a fabulous job.
So thank you very much.
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:04:28
Thank you.
And if nobody else wants to speak, we'll take that to a vote.
Everybody in favour?
That's unanimous.
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:04:38
Thank you.

14 East Kent Joint Independent Remuneration Panel

And item 14, the East Kent Joint Independent
Numeration Panel. Do we have a proposer?
Councillor Tim Proter. And do you have a seconder?
Councillor Jim Martin and Councillor Proter,
Cllr Tim Prater - 2:04:55
would you like to speak on this?
Thank you. Again, the report is in front of you.
As it notes, the two of the four members of the
Fexham Hive Independent Numeration Panel have
have come to the end of their term and left the panel, which
leads us to the panel of two people.
We can either spend our time rebuilding a panel
or use a functioning one which works elsewhere.
And in the interest of cooperation
with neighboring authorities, the recommendation
is that we join the East Kent Joint Independent
Enumeration Panel and that our two remaining IRP members are
thanked for their work to date and offered appointments
to that joint IRP and if they would wish to do so.
So it means that we have a functioning IRP
for the remainder of our existence on this planet.
I commend the recommendations to you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 2:05:49
Thank you. Would anybody else like to speak on this?
No? Well, in that case, we'll move to a vote.
All those in favour?
And again, that's unanimous.
Thank you, everyone, and I hope you have a lovely rest of your evening.