Overview and Scrutiny Committee - Tuesday 18 February 2025, 6:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Overview and Scrutiny Committee
Tuesday, 18th February 2025 at 6:00pm 

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  1. Cllr Laura Davison
  2. Mr Jake Hamilton
  3. Cllr Laura Davison
  4. Cllr Laura Davison
  5. Cllr Rich Holgate
  6. Cllr Elaine Martin
  7. Cllr Rich Holgate
  8. Cllr Laura Davison
  9. Councillor Tony Hills
  10. Cllr Laura Davison
  11. Cllr Rich Holgate
  12. Cllr Laura Davison
  13. Cllr Alan Martin
  14. Cllr Rich Holgate
  15. Cllr Laura Davison
  16. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  17. Cllr Laura Davison
  18. Cllr Connor McConville
  19. Cllr Rich Holgate
  20. Cllr Connor McConville
  21. Cllr Rich Holgate
  22. Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
  23. Cllr Connor McConville
  24. Cllr Rich Holgate
  25. Cllr Laura Davison
  26. Cllr Rich Holgate
  27. Cllr Laura Davison
  28. Cllr Rich Holgate
  29. Cllr Laura Davison
  30. Cllr Rich Holgate
  31. Cllr Laura Davison
  32. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  33. Cllr Bridget Chapman
  34. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  35. Cllr Bridget Chapman
  36. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  37. Cllr Bridget Chapman
  38. Cllr Laura Davison
  39. Cllr Connor McConville
  40. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  41. Cllr Laura Davison
  42. Cllr Anita Jones
  43. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  44. Cllr Laura Davison
  45. Cllr Alan Martin
  46. Cllr Laura Davison
  47. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  48. Cllr Laura Davison
  49. Cllr Bridget Chapman
  50. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  51. Cllr Bridget Chapman
  52. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  53. Cllr Laura Davison
  54. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  55. Cllr Laura Davison
  56. Cllr Connor McConville
  57. Cllr Laura Davison
  58. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  59. Lydia Morrison
  60. Cllr Laura Davison
  61. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  62. Cllr Laura Davison
  63. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  64. Councillor Tony Hills
  65. Cllr Laura Davison
  66. Councillor Tony Hills
  67. Webcast Finished

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:07
Good evening, members. It's that time. Welcome to the meeting of the Overview and Scrutiny
Committee. The meeting will be webcast live to the Internet. For those who don't wish
to be recorded or filmed, you'll need to leave the chamber. For members, officers, and others
speaking at the meeting, it's important the microphones are used so viewers on the webcast
and others in the room may hear you. Would anyone with a mobile phone please switch it
to silence as they can be distracting. And I'd like to remind members that although we
have strong opinions on matters under consideration, it's important to treat members, officers
and public speakers with respect.
First item on our agenda, apologies of absence.
Thank you, Chair.
Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:00:42
We have apologies from Councillor Butcher and Wing.
Thank you.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:46
And are there any declarations of interest?
No, thank you.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:51
Okay.
So we turn to our minutes of the last two meetings.
We've got the minutes of the finance and performance subcommittee held on the 4th of February.
Can I have a proposer for those, please?
Councillor Martin.
And a seconder?
Councillor Chapman.
Thank you.
Is that agreed, colleagues?
And the minutes of our meeting held on the 28th of January.
Do I have a proposer for those, please?
Councillor Jones and a seconder?
Councillor Conville.
Is that agreed?
Thank you very much colleagues.
Okay we have our regular cabinet member update slot and this time we have with us Councillor
Holgate, cabinet member for Place Plan Heritage, Tourism and District Economy to give us an
update on the work that he's been doing and then we'll take some questions.
Thanks.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:01:49
Good evening everybody.
So a couple of highlights from across the portfolio for you that will form part of my
portfolio update for the next council meeting too.
From a tourism perspective, we've revamped our websites, a problem we were trying to
solve without too many place brands and websites over the last couple of years.
So we've consolidated and revamped under folksonhigh .co .uk.
So it's been completed and Hannah, excuse me, has gone live and our coordinator coincides
with the tourism campaign aimed at boosting visitors
during the shoulder seasons.
We know seasonings were very strong,
so it's catching a better tourism trade either side
of those peak moments.
So that campaign, which is called Extraordinary
Experiences, await you.
We'll run across print, digital, and social channels,
including some bespoke e -newsletters
and online advertising, which in February and early March.
And we've also launched a new focus in the map,
which has been created to provide inspiration
and information to visitors.
I think a few of the characters in the room
contributed to that, so thank you for your help there.
And that map will be printed and distributed to hotels
and attractions in Folkestone, as well as
being available online.
Now Folkestone is done, we do turn our attention
to the rest of the district and maps for Hyde, Sandgate,
and the marsh will be coming soon.
And then we have the Folkestone tour as a board coming up.
We have, from a heritage point of view,
we have revised the heritage strategy.
There was one, but it never went live,
So we've basically given it a lick of paint and updated it.
That will now, has gone and go into consultation
to ratify it with various groups who have been invited to
engage in that such as heritage interest groups,
New Fund Society, Heart Forum, parish councils,
civic societies, have all been invited to comment.
And pending the success of that, it has been,
it will basically come back to get final ratification
and then go live as it were, which is really exciting.
FOLKA, FOLKA 2, the Levelling Up Fund works,
the development and design of these initial works
to the building continues and it's envisaged
that this will start in June 2025
for a six month period.
In terms of FOLKA 1, the options for FOLKA 1
were brought to cabinet for a decision
on the 26th of March.
And the FOLKA 2 occupation plan,
including the medical center,
the work continues on the occupation plan
with a report presented at the April cabinet.
So in short, in terms of FOCA, the next couple of months,
you should start to see a bit more paperwork coming
and a bit more decisions and move forward.
Folks in the brighter future, so KCC, our delivery partner,
they've issued a contract award on the 10th of January.
And so contract signature is imminent.
Any day now, I'm told.
Once signed, the communications are planned for the announcement
of that contractor.
And that timeline is that to be 16 months in total duration.
And we await an updated schedule of works
will provide more detail of that sequence of construction.
And a number of mandatory consultations
have taken place or are in progress,
including the change of use application of Boverly Square.
And that's expected to go to planning committee
on the 18th of March.
Importantly, once the contractor has been sorted and signed,
they will appoint a public liaison officer.
So they will help us work on that fourth public engagement,
which will be advising the public of the final design
and detail of the planned construction.
So we've had those three engagement events so far,
huge amount of input and feedback,
and those final designs are imminently available.
So we anticipate that public engagement event
will take place in April, and the team
are actively developing that engagement plan.
It will once again use the digital twin
to help demonstrate what the final design will look like.
There won't be a VR experience this time.
And the team behind the digital twin
have also been commissioned to deliver
a virtual experience of the area in and around Middleburg
Square.
Staying in focus in town center, we have obviously the successful pilot initiatives, part of
the Folk About Town series.
We are now reviewing the output evaluation that would inform a town center operating
model.
Decisions required to support the implementation of that would be subject to approval by CLT
and the cabinet.
Consideration is being given to what pilot events could happen during 25, 26 to maintain
the momentum by being mindful of obviously a lot of the road being built and dug up for
construction timelines.
From the UK Shared Prosperity Fund, cost of living support, we've got a total of 377
low -income households in the district have received support via UK SPF funding in this
financial year to date.
And examples of support include boiler servicing replacements, oil for off -grid homes and white
goods.
A significant number of beds and mattresses have also been provided, which have been a
particular benefit to some residents who have been sleeping on the floor.
From a skills perspective, our partnership with East Kent College continues, with them
delivering fully funded courses in the green construction and retrofit sectors.
We've enrolled over five, sorry, 100 individuals on courses to date, and they are confident
in meeting the target numbers and fully utilizing the allocated budget of £220 ,000 by the end
of March.
Funding of bespoke skills training for employers has also been awarded to seven businesses
to the total value of £40 ,000.
This almost utilizes the 42 ,000 that was set aside for its purposes, so we're near the
there.
A rural England prosperity fund, the scheme is now closed, and a full two -year allocation
of £362 ,000 has been awarded with a broad range of 22 projects having been supported,
including amongst others an expansion of 5G wireless broadband offering on the marsh where
coverage can be poor, updated facilities for a popular canoe club, various green projects
such as electric vehicle charging points, several solar and battery storage systems,
obvious environmental benefits, but there's the added benefit of increasing available
funds for community organizations utilized elsewhere.
Finally, the Romney Marsh work, we have replaced an officer and the Romney Marsh officer position
is now in the field and we're delighted to say that Joe and Carter will officially take
up a new role from March 3rd.
that will be a dedicated resource to work with local key stakeholders and communities
to create an economic action plan and enhancing new opportunities within the random marsh
area.
That's a bit of a whistle -stop to what I appreciate, but any detail within that will
be more than happy to help.
Thank you.
I'll open it up to questions.
Councillor Martin.
Thanks, Rich.
Cllr Elaine Martin - 0:08:23
I've got a couple of questions in different parts.
One is are there any plans for a map of the North Downs area?
Because all the places you mentioned have been along the coast.
And the other is about Falka and a while ago you were waiting for, I think it was the health board to come back
with a decision about taking the space. Has there been any update on that? Thanks.
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:08:51
It's very personal to call it including North Downs, certainly look at that for sure.
Thank you for the nudge.
But as a Volcker, we continue to await an opinion.
And I share it viral.
Councillor House.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:09:06
Thank you, Chair.
Councillor Tony Hills - 0:09:11
I'd just like to welcome Jo -Lynn Carter.
Worked with her already because she's Bergen Park Time for Robin Marsh partnership as coordinator.
and I found her excellent to work with.
I'm really excited by this
because we've got to relaunch that a little bit.
It's been lying there for a little while. Quiet!
So we've got to do a bit of work to relaunch that.
But it's very good news, so thank you, Rich, for that.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:09:36
Thanks, Councillor Hills. Do you want to come back on?
Just a quick comment.
There is obviously a backlog of activities, projects, things, opportunities.
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:09:42
Let's crack on. I'm looking forward to it.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:09:49
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:09:54
Also delighted that we've got a Ron Marsh officer, so that's very exciting.
We're probably due a FOLKA update, are we, at some point in the near future, so maybe
we can pick that up then.
I wondered if you could just elaborate a little bit more on FOLKA, because there's a lot going
on in there and like every major project I can't help thinking about the move to unitaries
and I guess there's lots of moving parts there and we are reliant on the health board and
everything else so it's just your thoughts on how we juggle that and how far we think
we're going to get that project before we can no longer make any decisions I guess.
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:10:38
So difficult to comment from LGR perspective, local government reorganization, but the work,
16 months worth of work, you know, my working assumption would be quite confident that we
would, especially because we now know a contractor has been appointed, we will be able to deliver
that in the next 24 months.
So, but in terms of a full report coming back to Council, maybe I could, thank you, not
Andy to give me some more specifics on the timelines
and whatever.
Yeah, that'd be helpful.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:11:06
Do you want to come in, Andy?
Lovely, thank you.
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:11:10
The wider FOCA project, we are very much
forging ahead with.
We have considered it a CLT in terms of LGR.
And we're still working on the business case, essentially.
So we've got the various strands of work
in the last cabinet report,
which was to explore the options for Volker one.
Provide the business case for Volker two,
medical center and who else is coming in that and how how we
make that viable.
And of course the love funded works.
So love funding works.
Work is progressing on that,
so obviously we want to get that sorted to make
the building watertight and that and carry on with that.
The work with the options for Volker one.
I believe those consultant reports are now back and the
are being drafted for that and then the business case will be
coming forward when there's a few more things have got to be
bottomed out really, but working very closely with the ICB, which
is the integrated care board. They're very keen still to have
that presence in the town center and that is a real key part of
the project and that sort of real anchor for the building to
help to provide that provision
within the town center.
basically improve the two medical practices that that is going to be serving and to improve
the football and help animate the town centre. So that is all very much forging ahead. The
bit that isn't is probably we're probably not going to look to relocate from this building
immediately where we were thinking about selling this to go into the business case. That will
still factor into the business case and then will still be the sale of this building. But
disruption that LGR is going to cause, if you like, when we're trying to carry out business
as usual, moving our whole operation to another building, bang in the middle of all of that
going on, probably isn't the most sensible thing to do at the moment.
So that's kind of where our thinking is on that, but the reports will be forthcoming
within, I would like to say, the next sort of three months.
Thank you.
That's helpful.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:13:18
Do you want to come back on that, Councillor Martin?
No?
Okay.
Other questions?
Councilman Conville?
A couple of little things.
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:13:30
The digital twinning software, when we purchased that as a council, there was a look to try and recoup some of those costs by offering it out to the wider community, local businesses or planning or something like that.
Has anything happened with that today?
Have we managed to recoup any sort of funds as yet towards the cost of that?
Not to my knowledge, but I'm going to take it away and find out for sure.
If that's OK.
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:13:59
My assumption is no.
Maybe again Andy, who would know?
No.
No, but let me come back because...
But it is still an aim, an aspiration.
I believe so, and I would put money on it being a resource issue more than the intent.
So yes, I believe in technicals.
And also the wider contract, I know it covers all the roads and the
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:14:23
wider Fokker building.
Does that still include the public realm improvements to the High Street
or is that something separate that we're doing as a council outside of KCC
or is KCC doing that as well as everything?
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:14:46
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 0:14:50
So the Lough works in Town Centre do include the improvements to Sandgate Road and Guildhall
Street as well as the highway improvements, the implementation of the new square, Boubry
Square.
The works that we're contracting ourselves separately from the KCC works will be the
the Lough funding works to FOCA, which will be done separately,
and not part of the KCC contract.
Thanks for that. And then finally, the work that,
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:15:19
like the FOCA About Town work,
the council's commissioned out to Photo Infringe
and the other organisation I can't remember offhand,
is there plans for that to continue,
or is there a finite end date for that in terms of funding?
So the objective was to identify this town center operating model as a result of those
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:15:41
pilots.
We're still finalizing what that would look like, but the intent is absolutely to continue
it.
And for me, it's creating a model also that's replicable so we can then push it across the
district too and make sure that that work has wider value as well.
So yeah, looking forward to it.
Okay, thanks.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:16:02
Can I ask you about the Grace Hill Library and any further engagement that's been around
that and also with bus users around the changes to the bus station?
And also you talked about the heritage strategy in your update at the beginning, that it was
a subject that came in front of full council a few months ago calling for a refresh of
the strategy.
So is there an intention for that to come back to full council as part of the process
or any engagement with this committee around that as well as part of the consultation?
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:16:47
So from a greater perspective, I actually am not actively involved.
So from a common point of view, I'm not.
I know Mike has a map like more and has been working closer to it.
I can't provide an explicit update that would be useful.
In terms of bus users, I'm not sure what the question was.
Sorry, sorry, we'll come back in a second.
They're from a heritage strategy.
I don't believe it will come back.
We'll consult on it pending the engagement.
We'll just continue to activate that strategy ultimately.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:17:20
Yes, I appreciate that it doesn't necessarily sit under your remit, the library, but it's
the discussions about FOCA really, because obviously that's been covered previously.
And then on the bus users, it was in relation to the folks in a brighter future project
and the concerns that have been raised about the changes in relation to that for bus users.
I just wondered if there had been any further engagement around that in terms of the feedback
there had been from people.
I'm sorry, thank you.
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:17:55
Sorry, so from the bus users yet a lot
longer in engagement with multiple
groups across the district and there
is a nervousness obviously about some
of the change for some of the groups,
such as elderly.
For example,
we continue to make an effort to be as
transparent and communicative as possible
about what their changes are, how they will
look or also waiting for those final designs.
That will be our last opportunities
then to come back and share with that engagement event in April what the final designs will
look like.
Okay, thanks.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:18:29
Any other questions?
No?
Okay, thanks, Councillor Holgate.
Thank you very much.
Cllr Rich Holgate - 0:18:38
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:18:39
Okay, we're moving on to item six, which is the procurement plan.
I can say the word procurement.
Adi, you're going to introduce for us.
Hi, everyone.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:18:53
I'm here to discuss the procurement plan around small, medium businesses.
And this is the feedback or an update following the meeting that was on May last year.
and regarding the concern raised by members around the approaches that we employ and feedback
that indicated that our processes are not sufficient enough.
So to address the concern, the procurement team has focused on simplifying the processes
by removing barriers, engaging with other councils as suggested, our neighboring councils
such as Dover, Ashford and Preston, and also establishing collection, data collection mechanism
to help us monitor local suppliers' involvement.
Following the indication about Preston model and how successful that has been, I contacted
been in touch with Preston to establish how they have implemented their model in terms
of the economic growth tools they've used and how it has been successful.
So I was made aware that this model was viewed on a collaborative multi -public sector approach,
bringing together different public sectors such as NHS, schools, police force and other
local councils around the Lancashire area.
So it was more of a collaborative effort by pulling resources, multiple organisations
to achieve greater impact and also the resource commitment, a significant investment in funding
and time and personnel that enables the model to be successful.
So while the approach behind it provided an extensive opportunity for SME engagement,
the scale of collaboration is probably not currently feasible for us because we are working
independently as Folkstone, but there are some key principles that we can adopt, such
as encouraging local suppliers participation in our procurement, improving our procurement
data tracking and analysis to help us monitor our spending and probably trying to enlighten
our strategy around it, and introducing different strategies around procurement such as lot
to be done and making sure that we incorporate more social value within our contracts so
that it attracts local suppliers, small businesses,
and even whips that also maybe local supply chains
involvement as well.
One of the things that we also have done
is engage with the neighboring authorities
to find out what they're doing.
So I've been in touch with Ashford and Dover.
And what I have learned from Dover is what they're doing around data gathering around
their contracting, their tenders, and how many local suppliers are participating in
that and the numbers of contracts awarded to local businesses.
These data seems to be more efficient in identifying the barriers of participation and we find
procurement strategies. So based on real -life evidence, as a result, we are replicating,
we've started replicating the similar tracking system of our SME engagement with our tenders
and our contracts. Whilst the regulation of, whilst we operate within a regulated framework,
and there's, as previously said, there are some constraints, as well there are some opportunities,
The constraint is open competition.
Our competition has to be open and not just we cannot restrict for local business only,
but at the same time we could consider breaking down our life contract into loting so that
they are broken into different smaller units so that they will attract small businesses
and also try and consider sustainability, social values, requirements within our processes as well.
And another thing that is upcoming is the upcoming Procurement Act that is going to be effective for
Monday and that will then see the way that we change or we revise our processes around simplifying
procurement process and also trying to encourage more small businesses by
simplifying the process and applying proportionality, you know, tailoring our
procurement requirement to make sure that they're able to actually
participate in our contract. Current actions that we're currently doing, like
I said, is implementing Dover's process of tracking local suppliers
participation and I think I have put that in the original report but at the time the report was
produced it wasn't updated so I've recently updated the data I can highlight and show.
So, although there is no clear definition in terms of what we classify as local suppliers,
so what we've done is we've broken it down into Foxton, East Kent, Kent, and the others
are outside of Kent and National.
And if you can see, we have...
So we're tracking our tenders and what we've received,
the percentage of interest we've received from bidders
and the ones that we've awarded and how they're awarded.
So we've tracked it back to 22, 23,
and the recent one is the 24, 25.
And the others, out of the 77 million contracts that we've awarded to the others, one is based
on the MERS responsive repairs for housing, which is 60 million.
And within that, MERS has actually stated when they were tendering for the contract that they
have 14 approved subcontractors that actually folks don't base.
So these are the ways that we tend to do in our life contracts as well,
facilitating the use of local businesses, supply chain and things like that to ensure that even
though even if the contract is not won by a local firm and if they still have presence in
in terms of their subcontractors.
So the other actions that we're taking
is actually encouraging our internal service department.
So when they're going out to seek quote
to ensure that they always have local suppliers,
a minimum of one or two, you know, wherever they possibly can, and just try to kind of
seek quotes from local suppliers, which many do, because most of our trickles are not that
huge, so they tend to go for local suppliers, but it's just about passing the message and
keep encouraging that.
And what we plan to do is keep streamlining our tender requirements, reducing unnecessary
complexity within a procurement document, simplifying them, encouraging
participation by simplifying a bit, expanding or increasing our
loitering when it comes to B contract. So where possible, where we think is possible,
feasible for us to do, instead of just going out with a huge amount where it
will be even appropriate for any SMU to pass it away, break them down into lots
and then that would encourage suppliers to bid.
And develop a capacity for ongoing data analysis,
reviewing what we're doing,
so that will help us assess how we're doing
and if we need to make amendments
and improve what we're doing.
So I think at the moment what we can do as a council
is take incremental steps towards this, making sure that we are able to address the concern
about the SME participation, learning from others, and implementing the lesson learned
from Braxton, even though we haven't got the capacity as huge as they have got, but learning
from what they're doing and also implementing that within our own processes incrementally
and making meaningful progress.
Thank you very much.
I'll open it up for comments or other questions or thoughts from people.
Councillor Chapman.
Yeah, I just want to first of all say thank you very much for clearly a lot of work that's
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:29:03
been done to reach out to Preston and to other local authorities to discuss how they're doing
this.
I completely take on board the capacity issue, but I really like the way we're looking at
ways that we can incorporate the overall approach in what we're doing.
It's really interesting that Dover are already tracking this.
Do they have targets for local procurement, and how are those targets tracked and reported?
And that would be one question, and if we were going to do it, how would we set targets
and track and report them?
I wondered if you'd had any discussions with Dover or other local authorities about any
pilot programs or phased approaches to gradually increase the local procurement going on in
those areas.
So, I'd start with those if that's all right. Thank you.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:30:08
I think at the moment everyone is, well, from discussion,
they are where we are at this moment, so we're all at the same...
When I approached them, it was something that is recently being looked at.
So, I don't think they have targets at the moment, like you said.
So, they are actually started collecting information as well.
and then, so I think we are both on the same frame.
And did you come across anybody doing any kind of outreach
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:30:39
or support programs for local businesses
to help navigate the procurement process?
And I think we are doing some of that already,
but could you just talk us through what's happening within this authority?
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:30:58
So based on what we're doing, obviously like I said we are simplifying and making sure that we
make ourselves available and we talk through different things that we need to do. But in
terms of what others are piloting, I did reach out to Ashford as well and there isn't any difference
in terms of what we're doing right now. I think we're all in the same boat trying to incorporate
this and finding a way through it so we're all moving at the same pace so I guess it will be
about maybe reaching out more to others outside of the neighboring but in terms of the neighboring
Council, we're all within, we're all still at the starting point.
So it's really interesting that other local authorities are clearly aware of this and
trying to incorporate this.
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:31:52
So I mean, I think I might come back with some more questions in a minute after other
people have had a chance, but it would be great for me if we could think about how we
and set targets and monitor them,
and what more we could be doing
within the constraints of workload,
and I appreciate there's a lot going on,
particularly with the local government reorganization
happening, but what we could do
to be really proactive about that.
But thank you so much, I really appreciate
everything that you've put into this.
Thanks, Councillor Chapman.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:32:24
Any other comments?
Councillor McConville.
Thank you for the work that's gone on to this since it's been brought to the council's attention.
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:32:38
I mean it's good to see, just in figures, you can see that there's positive movement
in the right direction which is great.
If other councils are producing similar sort of data it would be quite nice, interesting
to see them just sort of benchmark where we are moving forward in terms of the level.
If we're getting a lot more interaction locally in our own area and others aren't, or if they
especially if you look at maybe the East Kent,
to match that with similar data from Thanos Dover,
Canterbury, that sort of thing,
it would be quite interesting to look at,
if we come to look at this again.
It's certainly something that I can request.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:33:24
I know that we got this from Dover.
I'm not sure if Ashford is doing the same,
because I did reach out to them,
but I can find out if China does anything.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:33:36
Thanks, yes, it would be interesting to know how we kind of compare to other authorities
who are looking at the same thing and how we can kind of learn from each other in that
respect.
But it is useful to see the data, certainly.
Any other comments or questions from people?
Councillor Jones?
That's just great work.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:33:54
Thank you.
And really good to be joining up with, obviously, our potential future partners.
so the more we can talk to them and work with them,
hopefully all of these great ideas that we have in council
can then form whatever happens next.
So thank you.
Thank you.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:34:12
Councillor Martin.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:34:14
Yes, thank you.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:34:18
So I agree with everything everyone else has raised
and I think you've landed on a really pragmatic approach,
actually, I think it looks really good and well thought out.
The one, I guess it's more of an open question,
but obviously we defined local as being
Folsom High District Council, for obvious reasons.
But in the future it would be the next rung up, maybe, East Kent
or something similar that would be our definition of local
if we look at it at a council level.
And I just wonder aloud whether it's worth us just giving some thought
to how local we feel we should apply these rules,
because when we're working in some construct
of a larger council, of course,
we're gonna zoom out a little bit.
I'm just interested in people's thoughts
on what we should consider local as being.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:35:15
I suppose it sort of also ties
into Councillor Chapman's question
about how this moves forward around targets
or what the next steps might be.
So thinking about local government reorganisation
at the same time.
I think it's always been a question of ours as well, is what's the definition of local?
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:35:33
Yeah, and I guess with potential change in the restructure, we could look at East Kent
as a whole as well, just to see how we're doing.
And then if we were to compare with other districts, it would be nice to see how they're
doing around East Kent as well.
Thanks.
Any other points?
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:35:56
Councillor Chapman.
We're talking about a lotting strategy, breaking contracts up into
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:36:05
lots.
So how will that be implemented?
What kind of criteria would be used to determine which contracts might be broken down like
that?
I think it depends on the contract and how well it can be managed.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:36:23
So, for example, there are different kinds of contracts, there are different kinds of
large contracts that, because when we do lotting, the potential is that we would have different
supplies within a contract, and then it will be dependent on the manager in terms of if
they can actually manage different supplies.
But regardless of that, there are some contracts that we could actually do lotting.
For example, we did a recent decarbonization contract,
and there were about 180 homes.
So the question was, would they be able to deliver
that contract?
Would one supplier be able to deliver that contract?
And that was no.
So we split that into three different lots,
breaking that into 60 homes per each lot,
giving different contractors the opportunity
to tender for those. So we had three suppliers providing rather than just one
single supplier. And sometimes there are contracts that have different
requirements. It could be a big contract where, let's say for example, there will be
plumbing, there will be repair, there will be this. And if it's manageable with having
different suppliers, it goes out in different lots, giving opportunities to
different small businesses to do that so that different beaters will now be for the ones
that they feel that they can actually deliver within those specifications.
Rather than looking at a tender and looking, I can't do all of this, I can only do that,
but because I can only do that, I cannot tender.
So this one gives the opportunity that I can do the plumbing, so I will tender for the
or I can do the plumbing plus the repair, I will do both.
But they still have a chance of either winning both or one.
Okay, I totally take on board the practicalities
and the manageability.
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:38:30
Just think it would be nice to maybe have some criteria
that we work towards in the future
so that we're gently nudging people
to look at things with fresh eyes
to see if there are ways in future
that things could be broken down,
where perhaps they might not have been currently.
But I love the example of the
decarbonisation contract being broken down.
And more of that would be great.
So criteria to work towards, I think, would be helpful.
I think it's more about conversation with the department,
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:39:07
the managers, to see what is feasible,
how manageable and everything.
And we always do that.
We just don't go out, we talk about their contracts,
and we have meetings to discuss different things.
And we do make them realize, and I
think most people are warming up to this and that.
So we do do our best in terms of that.
And I feel that most departments within the organization,
because we do trainings and everything,
they kind of understand.
And so they work with us as well to make most things workable.
Thank you.
Okay.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:39:46
If there's no other comments, then we just need to note the report.
Receive and note the report.
So are we all agreeable to that?
Thank you.
Thanks very much for coming to the committee this evening.
Okay, we're moving on to our, it's our last item this evening, review of private sector
housing enforcement.
Who's introducing this?
Thank you very much, Kerry.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:40:21
I'm Kerry Petts, the private sector housing manager, and I'm going to just talk you through
the key points of the presentation that's been pre -shared with you.
So this is in response to the opposition business that was brought in October of last year, which
was to review the effectiveness of the private sector housing enforcement policy and report
back on the key issues and also to consider if the policy needs to be replaced by implementing
a licensing scheme as set out in the Housing Act.
One of the main key points that I'd first like to make is that selective licensing is
an additional power within the Housing Act.
It's not an alternative to the enforcement action that we take now.
It's like an extra tool in the toolbox that we have the discretion to use.
So it's not an either or situation.
Our focus very much as a team is on an informal approach and we've built up very good working
relationships with our landlords and letting agents in this area over a number of years
and I think the success is seen in the amount of properties that we improve year on year
and most of those are with dealing with the landlords informally.
We take very few enforcement actions
and serve very few financial penalties
as a result of improving those homes.
We do have a waiting list at the moment of service requests,
but it's at the lowest point that it's ever been.
So we're running a list of people waiting to see us
at around 55 to 60 at the moment,
But that is the lowest it has been.
And I know there was concern about that previously.
There are a number of emerging duties
with the Renters' Rights Bill that we as a team
are going to have to mobilize and prepare for.
At the moment, there's a lot of unknown quantities
in terms of that.
So we're waiting for more news from the government
in terms of when various elements of the bill
are going to come into force.
The word on the street at the moment is that the provisions around the section 21 no fault evictions will probably come into play as early as May this year.
And then all the other powers and provisions that will be handed down to my team and the wider housing teams including housing options and any tenancy liaison type roles.
Probably looking at autumn into 2026.
So mobilization plans are gonna need to be formalized
and what we're trying to do at the moment is work
as a Kent -wide group, not only to hopefully provide
efficiency in doing that and consistency across the board
for landlords that might have portfolios across Kent,
but also to take into account government reorganization.
So working particularly closely with our neighboring
authorities is going to be important going forward.
There's going to be recruitment and training issues,
and that will be across the board in terms
of our legal expertise and also private sector housing
in getting to grips with the new powers
and investigating powers that we're going to be handed down.
But also in terms of tenancy liaison
and all of the extra service requests
that we're probably going to get in terms
of illegal eviction and harassment
and that kind of thing.
So lots of work coming your way, basically.
The review of the private sector housing policy
will encompass the Renters' Rights Act.
So as it comes about and emerges,
we will be able to then incorporate that
into the review going forward.
In terms of the selective licensing,
Councillors Prater and Cooper, the leader and ourselves
met with the private sector housing lead
at Liverpool Council just to get an idea
of how their selective licensing scheme runs.
They have a borough wide selective licensing scheme
which is vast.
It covers some 50 ,000 properties.
So it's a real big piece of work
that they've embarked upon.
They're just about to go into their new selective licensing
round, and they've given us lots of tips and hints
about how they got to where they're at now.
They reckon it took them at least two years from inception
to implement the first scheme.
A vast amount of spend on doing research
around where the issues are within the borough.
There are certain criteria that need to be met,
and that's either around poor housing condition,
low housing demand, antisocial behavior.
Those are the criteria that need to be met
in order for a selective licensing scheme to go ahead.
So we would need to implement some sort of a stock condition
update in order to inform us on any licensing provision going
forward.
There's obviously cost implications and resource implications in terms of that.
And I think in terms of where we are with the Renter's Rights Bill at the moment, I
think the team need to be focusing on that as opposed to any Selective Licensing at this
moment in time.
So really Selective Licensing is something that maybe we could consider once we've embedded
the powers and the duties that we're going to have to bring forward with the Renter's
Rights.
Also, selective licensing, one of the things that did crop up in the Liverpool meeting
was that it's not popular with landlords.
It can lead to landlords exiting the market, and we're already seeing that with the news
of the Renters' Rights Bill coming forth.
So we do have landlords anecdotally quite often speaking to us about what they can see
coming down the line at them and how that's actually
gonna affect them in terms of running their businesses.
So I think to put selective licensing on top of that
at the moment might be a push too far.
So in conclusion, there's gonna be a huge amount of work
for private sector housing team in the pipeline.
We do deliver many positive outcomes at the moment
and most of those are delivered on an informal basis
and based on really good working relationships
with our letting agents and landlords in the area.
The Renters Right Bill is going to add
considerable further regulation.
And we've got to prepare for those
emerging duties and powers.
Additional resources are going to be required,
but we don't know on what scale at this moment in time.
And obviously we've got to factor in
local government reorganization,
which is going to bring us further uncertainty.
And we need to embed the Renters' Right provisions before we consider any licensing schemes.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:47:54
Okay, I'll open it up to colleagues.
Silence.
And I'll ask just in terms of the – you talked about the waiting
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:48:09
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:48:09
lists, and you said
it's the lowest that it's been.
What is the waiting time generally
for people who ask for a visit?
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:48:22
It depends on what's actually being asked of us.
So we triage every service request that comes in
in terms of what's being reported as wrong in the property.
And then that would denote their position on the list.
So we have a system whereby defects
that are seen as a lower category of risk
would be given a lower position on that list.
So it's very difficult for us to determine
a waiting time for any one customer.
But we're tending to be looking at service requests
that come in around November at the moment.
So it's about three months.
And is there...
Where does that...
How does that compare in terms of a waiting time
with other authorities, for example?
I mean, is that where you would want and expect it to be?
Or what?
It's very hard to compare it with other local authorities
because sizes of teams vary across the varying districts.
And obviously, levels of service requests,
depending on the type of housing stock
that they've got in the district, would also vary.
So I think any benchmarking would probably
have to be done quite carefully to make sure that we're not comparing apples with pears
kind of thing.
So we don't have that at the moment?
We don't have at the moment, no.
Now I've given people some time to think.
Would anybody like to raise points?
Councillor McOndell.
Thanks and I actually appreciate this.
A huge amount of work coming down the pipe and obviously with government reorganisation,
Selective licensing probably isn't at the forefront
and that's perfectly fine.
But I'll just query why Liverpool was chosen.
I mean, it's a massive area.
I mean, did we try to talk to Thanet who operated a scheme
and they're quite similar in size to ours,
or Medway who were just starting a year into implementing,
they began implementing it after May 23,
just to see for someone who's going to have a scheme,
but not quite there yet.
So that's probably the most realistic in terms of cost,
probably the most realistic sort of comparison locally.
Yep, Liverpool was chosen by the councillor,
one of the councillors that brought the motion I believe.
So that meeting was set up for us.
And although helpful, I do take your point about Thanet
being more comparable with us.
And I have a working knowledge of the Thanet
Selective Licensing Scheme.
I work quite closely with the private sector housing manager
over there, so I'm aware of it, and it is probably
a better scheme to compare us with.
They only have a very small area of their district
that is a selective licensing area.
And I understand that they're just looking to expand that
in their next round.
So yeah, if we took a scheme forward, I would be looking more to my neighbouring authorities
for guidance on how to do that.
I think Councillor Prater wants to come in as well.
Yeah I just thought I'd add some kind of as I was on the meeting with Liverpool, that
came forward for two reasons.
One was at LGA conference and I found a council that was operating a selective licensing scheme
who were about to talk to us about it.
So I buttonholed somebody to speak to us.
And, too, having mentioned that to Councillor Cooper,
he was wildly enthusiastic about speaking to Liverpool
about selected licensing scheme,
which was all helpful, and we did so.
I think what the key takeaway that I took from that call,
which was interesting,
was that they are using selected licensing really well
to crack a different problem to the one that we have.
And the Selective Licensing Scheme is developed and is enabled by government,
I don't know if it becomes locally enabled I believe relatively soon,
but the criteria you have to meet is broadly that you've got too little demand in an area.
You've got falling prices for rented property,
that you've got such poor property that there isn't demand for people to live there.
Anyone else feeling that in their area?
Because I'm not seeing it in money.
Actually, we've got the alternative problem
whereby we've got such high demand
that prices are going up for the stock
no matter what condition it's in.
And our private rented stock, as has already been said,
is actually, we've got good relationships
with quite a lot of those landlords,
and on average, our stock is in quite good condition.
We can absolutely all have arguments
and have examples of where that's not the case,
some examples where we've seen stuff that isn't that.
But on average, the private rented housing stock in Fosun -Hyde
is probably better than average.
Therefore, on the criteria of what your current stock condition is,
and the criteria of there is insufficient demand
for housing in that area due to that stock condition,
and due to that you wouldn't meet the criteria
to put a selective housing policy such as Liverpool has got in place.
you can't make the criteria because that's not the problems that we've got.
So they're using the tools to deal with the problem that they've got in certain areas
of Liverpool and they're using it very well and successfully.
I could hear eyes lighting up when they were telling us the budgets and the number of staff
that they had in terms of actually managing that.
We were going to take the Civic Centre just a house, the Housing Enforcement team at that
if you look at those numbers.
But the key takeaway was that even if you liked what Liverpool were doing,
Lydia Morrison - 0:54:22
you couldn't take it off the shelf and use it here
because your data wouldn't allow you to do it.
And if you're going to do something, you can only do that which is legal,
and it's not legal for the problems that we currently have here.
You'd have to make a case that we don't have.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:54:38
Adrian, were you indicating as well?
I was just going to add that Kerry obviously indicated
that it's bigger than just private sector housing.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:54:46
The Renters' Rights Act, it will cover activity
that's currently carried out by our housing options team.
As part of the preparation for that,
we're certainly gonna be speaking to our local partners
to find out how we can improve what we're doing
at the moment going forward.
So yeah, it will be local, but we'll be looking
for good practice nationally as well
if it's relevant to what we're doing.
Thanks.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:55:11
Did you want to come back, Councillor McConville?
Any other points, people?
Nope, not on this item, I think.
I'm not quite good in that sense.
Okay, so in terms of kind of next steps on this particular issue, you talked about the review.
So can you just talk us through the timeframes around that and when this might sort of be appropriate to revisit?
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:55:43
In terms of the review of the policy, I think it's going to have to marry up with as and
when the Renters' Rights Bill becomes legislation and the guidance comes forward.
Because it's not just about the bill coming into force, it's when we actually get the
regulations off the back of the Act, which can take even more time.
So it might be a case of us having to do chunks
at a time of that and then keeping that policy under review
to keep up with how the regulations come about.
So putting a timeframe on it at the moment,
it would have to be a very rough guess
of maybe from autumn onwards.
But until we have more from the government,
I couldn't really say for definite.
Okay, will you keep the committee informed?
Absolutely. That would be helpful, thanks.
Councillor Hills.
I totally agree with you.
Councillor Tony Hills - 0:56:38
It very much depends on the impact of that bill when it lands
and how it affects our community.
That needs to be evaluated
and then it can be brought to this committee ideally
and to be evaluated again
on how we can handle any lumps or bumps it causes.
But thank you for your presentation.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:57:00
Thanks for giving us some insight into the range of things
that are kind of coming down the track that's helpful.
Okay, if there are no more comments,
then I don't think we have an action in relation to this.
So we thank you for the presentation.
And I think that concludes the meeting,
possibly the shortest meeting we've had
in all our time as a committee.
So thank you, have a good evening.
Yeah, but don't complain.