Council - Wednesday 19 February 2025, 7:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Council
Wednesday, 19th February 2025 at 7:00pm 

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  1. Cllr Anita Jones
  2. Microphone Forty
  3. Cllr Anita Jones
  4. Dr Susan Priest
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  1. Cllr Tony Cooper
  2. Cllr Anita Jones
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  1. Cllr Anita Jones
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  1. Cllr Laura Davison
  2. Cllr Anita Jones
  3. Cllr Jim Martin
  4. Cllr Anita Jones
  5. Cllr Laura Davison
  6. Cllr Jeremy Speakman
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  1. Cllr Anita Jones
  2. Cllr Jim Martin
  3. Cllr Anita Jones
  4. Cllr Adrian Lockwood
  5. Cllr Anita Jones
  6. Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
  7. Cllr Anita Jones
  8. Cllr Jim Martin
  9. Cllr Anita Jones
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  1. Cllr Laura Davison
  2. Cllr Anita Jones
  3. Cllr Connor McConville
  4. Cllr Anita Jones
  5. Cllr Jackie Meade
  6. Cllr Anita Jones
  7. Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
  8. Cllr Anita Jones
  9. Cllr Paul Thomas
  10. Cllr Stephen Scoffham
  11. Cllr Anita Jones
  12. Cllr Tony Cooper
  13. Cllr Anita Jones
  14. Cllr Belinda Walker
  15. Cllr Anita Jones
  16. Cllr Nicola Keen
  17. Cllr Anita Jones
  18. Cllr Adrian Lockwood
  19. Cllr Anita Jones
  20. Cllr Mike Blakemore
  21. Cllr Anita Jones
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  1. Cllr Rebecca Shoob
  2. Cllr Anita Jones
  3. Cllr Nicola Keen
  4. Cllr Anita Jones
  5. Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee
  6. Cllr Anita Jones
  7. Cllr Nicola Keen
  8. Cllr Anita Jones
  9. Cllr Jim Martin
  10. Cllr Tim Prater
  11. Cllr Anita Jones
  12. Cllr Paul Thomas
  13. Cllr Anita Jones
  14. Councillor Tony Hills
  15. Cllr David Godfrey
  16. Cllr Anita Jones
  17. Cllr Connor McConville
  18. Cllr Jackie Meade
  19. Cllr Jackie Meade
  20. Cllr Anita Jones
  21. Cllr Anita Jones
  22. Cllr Rebecca Shoob
  23. Cllr Anita Jones
  24. Ms Jemma West
  25. Cllr Anita Jones
  26. Cllr Anita Jones
  27. Webcast Finished

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:00:02
Microphone Forty - 0:00:04
Good evening. If you would like to join us in prayer, I warmly invite you to respond
to each prayer by saying, Amen. So let us pray. Dear Lord, tonight we hold before you
the children and young people of this district. In a world beset by economic challenges, environmental
disasters, political turmoil, international conflict and rapidly shifting social norms.
We pray that our young people would never lose hope and triumph over all adversity.
Inspire our young people to seek after positive change. Empower them to be heard and give
them the resources to be supported and flourish. Raise up those families who are struggling
at this time and protect those who are vulnerable from all who would seek to do them harm. Bless
the young people of this district and give us the wisdom and compassion to work for their
prospering. Amen. And Lord, whenever we meet together, we do so in hope, hoping to find
and make common cause. Fill the hearts of all present here tonight with generosity that
they would work together for the well -being and flourishing of all people in this district.
Amen. Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:01:42
Thank you. Good evening and welcome to the meeting of full council. This meeting will be
webcast live to the internet. For those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed, you will need to
leave the chamber. For members, officers and others speaking at the meeting, it is important
that the microphones are used so viewers on the webcast and others in the room may hear
silent mode as they can be distracting. I would like to remind members that although
we have strong opinions on matters under consideration, it is important to treat members, officers
and public speakers with respect. Please feel free to sit or stand when speaking.
So item one on our agenda, apologies for absence.

1 Apologies for Absence

Dr Susan Priest - 0:02:32
Thank you chair and evening chair, councillors, colleagues and members of the public. We have
apologies for absence this evening from councillors Zuccuquef, Akukele, Butcher, Fuller, Goddard
and Wing. Thank you.

2 Declarations of interest

Thank you. Moving on to item 2, declarations of interest. Does anybody have any declarations
to make?
I have an respective item 12 chair.
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:02:58
Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:03:03
Moving on to item 3 minutes.
I will sign the minutes of the meeting held on the 29th of January.

3 Minutes

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:03:29
And are we all agreed that they are correct record of the meeting?
I agree with that.
Thank you.
And we'll move on to chairs communications, item four.

4 Chair's Communications

So thank you to all of you who bought a donation for the Rainbow Center Food Bank this evening.
Every small donation, as you know, will make a big difference to someone's life in our
district.
I don't have much to report since our last meeting, but I was pleased to meet up with
some Kent mayors and chairs last week and had some very useful conversations regarding
devolution and the potential groups we may form over the next couple of years.
I'm delighted that we are discussing the youth forum this evening.
As many of you know, this is a topic close to my heart and I'm delighted that one of
our Kent Youth Council reps, Riley, is here tonight to observe our meeting.
Welcome Riley.
I hope that all members have received an invitation to my chair event in April.
I'm really pleased to be hosting my event in Dungeness so that we can showcase this
amazing part of our district visiting mayors and chairs.
I'm hoping for good weather so that we can enjoy the best of the RSPB reserve and the wonderful views from the old lighthouse.
Please join us if you are able. Thank you.

5 Petitions

6 Questions from the Public

Item five, petitions. There are no petitions this evening and item six again public questions.
There are no questions from members of the public.

7 Questions from Councillors

So moving on to item seven, Councillor questions.
There are two questions from members which are set out in front of you on your desks.
We have a 45 -minute time limit on this, but I don't think we'll need that tonight.
So our first question this evening is from Councillor Davidson to Councillor Jim Martin.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:05:17
The move to a cabinet system of council governance had the support of many members of the public,
some of whom had mounted petitions calling for it.
Many of us were elected on the basis of that change.
This council had voted for it and worked together
over almost two years to implement it.
Last month's decision by Green, Conservative,
and Reform councillors to overturn that vote
and endorse the current exclusive cabinet system
was extremely disappointing.
This system means the number of councillors
making decisions on behalf of residents
is limited to just nine out of 30,
committee, and none represents Folkestone or Romney Marsh.
The rationale for this broken promise was the impending local government reorganisation
and the widely held understanding that Kent would be fast -tracked in this process.
Since the vote, it's been confirmed that Kent will not be fast -tracked.
So it is not too late for the Leader of the Council to do the right thing and recognise
the crucial importance of implementing the committee system to your fellow councillors
and for decision making on behalf of our residents.
Will you withdraw the letter sent to the Secretary of State asking for the change to be cancelled?
Councillor Jim Martin.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:06:30
Thank you very much for your question, Councillor Davidson.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:06:38
I agree wholeheartedly as you say the move to a committee system of the council governance
had the support of many members of the public,
some of whom had mounted petitions calling for it.
Many of us were elected on the basis of that change.
This council had voted for it and worked together
over almost two years to implement it.
And can I say at this point that few people
have worked as hard or committed as much time
as myself to the introduction of the committee system.
I think the motion from Councillor Hollingsby was to write to the Secretary of State to
ask for permission to consider the decision again.
I think it is also important for me to point out at this stage that the members of the
Cabinet are there to act as district councillors with collective responsibility.
They are not there representing their individual wards.
I also have to point out there is and always has been
an open invitation to members of the Labour group
to join the cabinet.
I understand the Labour Party's national executive
stopped local Labour councillors taking up our offer
to participate.
So as you rightly point out, the rationale
for supporting Councillor Hollingsby motion
was the impending local government reorganization
and the widely held understanding
that Kent would be fast tracked in this process,
which included the early devolution of powers
and funding from central government departments
known as the Devolution Priority Program.
On Wednesday the 5th of February at 11 a .m.,
I received an email from KCC telling me that Kent were not.
on the devolution priority programme
and the remaining timetable was uncertain.
I immediately met with the chief executive to discuss the impacts
and one of the items we discussed was writing again to the Secretary of State
to possibly recall the letter.
By 5 .35pm, I had received a letter directly from the minister
telling me that although Kent was not in the priority program,
we were to continue with the local government reorganization process at the double.
Local government reorganization will impact on everything we do
and ultimately in May 2027 or possibly May 2028,
according to current timetables, will see us abolished.
We will have to converge and integrate all of our services with our new unitary partners,
i .e. numerous mergers with district and borough councils as they disaggregate the services
provided by the county council KCC.
As all of our prospective partners operate a cabinet system with portfolio holders, the
process of integration, portfolio to portfolio,
will be much simpler than portfolio to committee.
Local government in Kent will be changing
fundamentally and completely.
One principle I learned from running my own business
is that when the world around you is changing,
hold fast to your core.
So when everything on the local government landscape
is changing, this is not the time to completely change our internal management system.
I will therefore not be asking for our letter to the Secretary of State to be cancelled.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:10:45
Councillor Davidson, do you have a related supplementary question there?
Okay, thank you.
So question two again from Councillor Davidson, this time to Councillor Speakman.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:10:56
Could you provide a list of all folks
in the High District Council's assets,
either directly owned or otherwise?
Cllr Jeremy Speakman - 0:11:06
Yes, good evening, Councillor Davidson.
Thank you very much for your question.
All the Council's assets are listed on the Council's website.
It is under a tab called Council Transparency,
which is actually not very transparent.
Fine, very sorry to say.
But we have, through Gemma's High intervention,
made that slightly more transparent.
and put it under democracy council on the front,
what's it, and then go to the vehicle land,
I think our land, to have.
But I can send you the link.
Thank you very much.
I'd be grateful if you could. Thanks.
And, Councillor Davison, do you have a related supplementary question?
No? Okay, thank you.
So, we'll move on to item eight,

8 Announcements of the Leader of the Council

announcements from the Leader of the Council.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:11:52
There'll be ten minutes allowed for the Leader
and then five minutes allowed for each opposition response.
Councillor Martin.
Thank you very much, Chair.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:12:01
Good evening, councillors.
I hope you are all well and managing the stay abreast
of local government reorganization developments.
If you have any insights, please do let me know.
I have to admit all of the 14 Kent leaders were stunned
to find out that we were not on the priority list
and we have been meeting frequently as Kent leaders
and the East Kent leaders to try and decide
the best way forward in what can be best described
as a moving landscape.
Any views, thoughts, suggestions that members may have,
I will be very happy to receive them.
I've been trying to attend as many town and parish meetings
as I can to explain the position on devolution.
I recently attended a meeting of Dimchurch Parish Council and as usual enjoyed the robust
discussion we associate with a well attended parish meeting like Dimchurch.
If I am invited I will be happy to attend more parish and town meetings over the coming
months.
I was also pleased to host a steering group meeting of the newly formed Fosden Hyatt Community
steering group which has been set up following the excellent overview and
scrutiny meeting to discuss our bathing water quality. Although the OSC meeting
was specifically to discuss the bathing water quality on sunny sands in
Folkestone, the steering group has a wider scope and includes all of the
district beaches. Additionally Southern Water have recently appointed
consultants to advise them on how they can better work with local authority partners.
They feel that the Focht and the High District Council have facilitated their communication
with local people and that we have also helped them develop a network of local reporting
that has helped them find problems that are causing the pollution.
We will be cooperating with this work.
I have further meetings with Southern Water and the Environment Agency planned, but without
But it has to be said, without massive financial investment into their ailing infrastructure,
there is no simple solution.
I am happy to confirm that the collaboration agreement, and I understand the phrase here
is with the lawyers, on Otipool, Homes England have appointed their project managers.
The planning application for the wastewater treatment plant has been submitted.
CABNET approved the business case for the solar park and we are now awaiting a planning
application.
We will continue to meet with interested parties including KCC developers, contractors and
other potential partners.
We were also invited to participate in a workshop hosted by the New Towns Taskforce which we
as a very positive step.
I have attended the business advisory group meeting
and a meeting of the Chamber of Commerce.
I've held meetings with a number of other businesses.
This council is a friend of good business.
The sale of Fosden Leisure Centre,
as you know, was tended by the administrator,
appointed by the principal creditors.
We have been told unofficially that all of the bits
made in relation to the swimming pool,
in relation to the site, included a swimming pool.
We understand the administrators had selected
a winning bid and legal agreements are progressing.
I also learned today that there's a hiccup
with one of the subsidiary companies owned by the trust
who own the swimming pool.
That's gotta be resolved before the land can be transferred.
I understand that's all in hand,
and another phrase with the lawyers.
I will update members as soon as I hear any results.
I was very happy to host a meeting with a delegation
from the town of St. Nicholas in Flanders, Belgium.
They were visiting Folkestone to find out
more about arts -led regeneration and our great success.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:16:40
And we're gonna hear from Councillor Lockwood.
Five minutes, please.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 0:16:45
I'll keep this brief.
Thanks, Jim, for the update and all the work
you've been on our behalf,
local government reorganisation.
Alongside your meetings, we're having other meetings
with labour groups and ministers to try and assist you
with that and obviously we're feeding that information
through as necessary.
Bathing water as well, it's good to see progress.
Hopefully we can work hand in hand with what comes through.
I know a lot of pressure's being put on the regulator.
Let's see if, I know you found them to be less than helpful
in the past, so hopefully that will come through
and help us as well.
Good to see Otterpool Park moving forward.
And I've made a couple of requests.
I don't know if the business advisory group meetings
are limited or not.
If they are, could those be shared with councillors?
It'd be interesting to see what's happening there.
Really good news about the Leisure Centre.
It feels like we're very close to hearing
whether we're gonna get our swimming pool back.
and that will be very helpful for my blood pressure
if nothing else, because I miss my swims.
Maybe I should bench with some of my fellow counselors
here into the sea at some point,
but then we're back to baby water.
Just to follow up on Councillor Davidson's question,
And I'm surprised there isn't anything in your update
about the letter that this council's written to
the Secretary of State.
Presumably the letter's gone, have we had a response?
Have we had a response?
I take your point about keeping things stable
when everything around you is in flux,
but that doesn't sit right with me with respect to
Green cabinet members voting to reform the UK
and the Conservatives to hand control
of what this council's doing over to an extremely busy
government minister and now we're just sat waiting
with 11 weeks to go to the AGM with a group of councillors
and sat in a room that literally do not know
where they're gonna be sitting in 11 weeks time.
And I find that very worrying.
So I think I'll leave it there,
but thank you for everything you do.
Thank you.
Councillor, Mrs. Jenny Hulingsby.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:19:36
Thank you, Chair, and good evening,
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:19:42
and thank you, Leader, for your comments.
Local government reorganisation,
and that must be a bit of a thing for all of us really.
I mean, I do think we, well, we were extremely disappointed
that we were not part of the Evolution Priority Program.
From what I understand, we were led very much
to believe from government that if we made that application,
we would be successful.
So finding out that we were not successful
was not what we were expecting.
On the issue of remaining as a cabinet, I think that it's the only way.
We are going into negotiations with other councils to form a unitary, and having portfolio
holders can only be the best thing possible.
where we know that somebody's got that responsibility
to talk directly to somebody else in another council.
And actually, just on that, I think that you said
asking about comments.
As a group, we feel that three unities is the way to go.
Without, I mean, there are lots of provisors.
in terms of assets, in terms of reserves, in terms of debt, and all those issues that
have to be addressed.
But we as a group cannot see how we geographically can actually come up with four units.
So if you'd like to take on board, that's our group's view.
I mean, there are lots of issues.
don't get that wrong, but we feel that three
would be a sensible combination.
I welcome, of course, obviously your attendance
at parish council meetings,
and of the newly formed Poston
and High Community Steering Group.
Your continual conversations with Southern Water.
And I know it's not easy,
and I suppose in some ways we don't have a lot of influence
because we can't make decisions within that.
But we can influence, and I know that's what you're doing.
Ossipho Park.
Oh, when's this collaboration gonna be agreed?
I mean, I'm getting,
and of course it's six months
from when that collaboration agreement is signed,
and then it's a possible extension of a few more months.
So you know how Otipol is very close to my heart
and I really, really would like to see
some further development and movement on it
and I'm sure everybody else would as well.
But it gives me the opportunity
to make sure that I say that.
I know you attended the Business Advisory Board,
Leisure Centre of course.
Again, we just need to get that answer,
that it has been, that it will be open,
and that it's been taken over.
And I know it's not easy, especially if
there is a hiccup with the lawyers and with the documents,
and everything has to be sorted.
but on the other hand we want to know that we're going to have a swimming pool open
because we haven't got a swimming pool anywhere else.
Well, okay, alright, we've got one in hide but it's not going to last forever as we
all know. And I think that's all I have to say today. Sorry, just like to say thank you
for what you do and for representing the district as you do. Thank you.
Thank you. And now, Councillor Jim Martin, you have the five minutes for the right of
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:24:05
reply.
Thank you very much.
Yeah, the,
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:24:11
on the swimming pool, there's great credit
is due to the administrators in terms of
they've kept the pumps running
and the filters in the swimming pool all along.
They could have just shut it down
and that would have increased the difficulty
of reopening it because it's been running
So credit where credit's due.
I understand this is an administrative problem
in that one of the subsidiary companies
owned part of the land,
and so it's just a little bit of a complication
that they have to resolve with the land registry people.
But no one, it's just gonna take
an extra week or ten days, that's what I was told yesterday.
So hopefully, fingers crossed, on that we can see that.
With regard to Southern Water,
I go through waves with Southern Water,
but I have no big stick to beat them with.
That's the problem.
I've got to cooperate and encourage them to do more.
They don't need to take any notice of me at all.
They could just ignore me if they wanted to.
So they're choosing not to.
They're choosing to participate and attend meetings
and tell people, etc.
And in all honesty, face some harsh language from people.
I'm not suggesting the problems aren't real.
but we're trying to foster a, you know,
Councillor Hills, a Councillor Thomas, a Councillor Cooper.
I think we're all trying to encourage Southern Water
to do more, commit more, spend a bit more,
all of these things, because there isn't,
we don't have that big club to hit them with.
So if I had it, I would, but I don't.
So all I could do is just really encourage them,
and they have been responding.
So I'll leave it at that.
Once they've started to engage with us,
they've continued to engage with us,
and I'm grateful to them for that.
Thank you.
Thank you.
So I think we need to have a proposer,
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:26:49
Councillor Prater, a seconder,
Councillor Mrs Jenny Hollingsby,
and all those in favour?
Yep, we're all agreed.
Lovely, thank you.
OK, so item 9, there's no opposition business,

9 Opposition Business

and item 10, there's no motions on notice.

10 Motions on Notice

So we're going to move on to item 11,

11 Creation of Folkestone and Hythe District Youth Forum

which is the creation of a folks
and Hive district youth forum.
And do we have a proposal for this?
Councillor Laura Davidson,
would you like to speak?
Yes, I would.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:27:25
I'm really pleased to see this come before
full council this evening and to come to fruition following its coming to full council.
I think it was nearly two years ago now since it came in front of perhaps a different mix
of councillors at that time.
Really good to have Riley here this evening as well listening to the discussion.
I just wanted to thank officers for the work that they've done to bring this forward and
the members of the overview and scrutiny committee for their work to look at the proposals and
make suggestions.
We had good, engaged discussions about it when it came in front of us.
I'm really hoping that it will extend beyond this year.
I think in the report there are two sessions that are planned, but I'm hopeful that that
will then go forward into future years.
And also that we'll see a wider involvement of a range of councillors in the work that
takes place, as well as the young people who are participating through the group leaders,
but it won't solely be cabinet members who are involved with the forum as it goes forward.
and I'm really looking forward to hearing the voices of our young residents loud and clear through that process.
So I'm very happy to propose.
Thank you. And do we have somebody to second it?
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:28:31
Councillor Conlon, would you like to speak?
Well, I'll just say that, you know, I was very happy to bring this to Council.
I can't remember exactly when it was, but it was some time ago.
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:28:42
So it's great to see that it's finally happened, and I look forward to reading all the feedback of the events that come forward.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:28:53
Thank you and it is now open for debate. Do we have anybody who would like to speak?
Councillor Meade.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:29:01
Thank you, Chair. I am so delighted that this is finally being done. We raised it, I think
it was about a year and a half ago and I think it was about a year ago. I asked a question
on it and we were still working on it, still working on it. It looks like we're finally
there. What I would ask, and if I can ask the leader because I'm sure that this will
get agreement, is when you're discussing the unitary with people, can you include the
youth forum within that discussion so it doesn't just disappear when we go through the reorganisation?
Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:29:36
Thank you. Councillor, Mrs Jenny Hollingsby.
Yes, thank you, Chair.
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:29:42
Well, I'm too very delighted that we've got some young people involved.
I did try quite hard when I was Chairman or Cabinet Member for Communities, but it wasn't
easy at that time.
One thing I would ask is if I've got to sort of ask to do some interviews at the Beacon
Plus, and I'm wondering if we can perhaps talk to them as well.
and if anybody would like to accompany me,
just need one person for interviews on the 6th of March,
I'd be very grateful and perhaps we can build up
a relationship with those youngsters as well.
Thank you.
Fantastic.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:30:21
Councillor Thomas.
Yeah, thank you, Chair.
I think it's an excellent opportunity for young people
to get involved with this council.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:30:32
It actually gels with something
the New Romney Town Council have done
in terms of their youth council as well.
So I think there's an opportunity here
to integrate some of that, for that to be a feeder
into this youth forum.
So I really support him.
I think it's excellent that we're able to support him.
I'd like to thank the officers for all the work they've done
to make sure we can take live now.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Councillor Scuffam.
Well, it's easy for me to add a voice to this
Cllr Stephen Scoffham - 0:31:01
because I agree with everything that's been said so far,
which is wonderful, but as somebody who has had a career in education, I just have to
chip in my bit as it were and say how delighted I am with this. I think that what we are doing
here is not engaging the process of passing on the problems which this generation and
our generation, and I count myself very much in this, have helped to generate, but giving
them the engagement, the resilience and the vision to equip them for uncertain times.
How that plays out we don't know, but that is what we are able to do. And I'm just aware
that the average age here is probably quite considerable. I certainly take my role in
this in adding to the uplift of the average age and I recognise that younger people in
the younger generation see things in a different way. And I've picked this up in all sorts
of different levels of uncertainty, we all do. So seeing that that voice is recognised
and that young people whose future it is that we're thinking about in the new forum is
represented in an adequate way. I think that's absolutely wonderful. I think it's a very
good report, sections 1 .3 to 1 .7 set out a really powerful rationale and I would like
to thank the officers for the way that they've engaged with this and run with something which
perhaps is a little bit unusual and takes us into a new territory. One of the strengths
of this is the way in which I think that the elected councillors are working alongside
officers to deliver the forum and participate in it. So it has my full support.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:32:34
Thank you. Councillor Cooper.
Cllr Tony Cooper - 0:32:38
Thank you, Chair. It was my pleasure last summer to have a work experience from a local
school who came to spend two weeks with me and brought me into the Chamber. I had done
meetings with officers and actually showed them what Councillors did and now it's getting
involved with the process and I think we should be all encouraged to do that and get the local
youth involved because we make decisions which affect them as well and I think it's important
that they have a say because we know what their feelings are. Thank you.
Thank you. Councillor Walker.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:33:11
Cllr Belinda Walker - 0:33:13
And I'm in agreement with everybody else and I just wanted to say that it's so important
for younger people to get involved in democracy. You probably remember Councillor Jones and
Councillor Blake Moore was in the plural, the visit we did to the Turner Academy.
Also I went with Councillor Cooper Kelly to do a radio programme
at the Turner Academy and the Turner School as well,
and also had young people shadowing me as a councillor.
So the more we can get people involved in local democracy,
learning how it works and participating
and seeing that their decisions and their views count,
because I think so many young people feel totally disenfranchised,
they're losing faith in local politics
and in politics as a whole.
So the more we can do to engage people
and see if their views will actually make a difference,
the better.
So I heartily recommend this one.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:34:02
And Councillor Keene.
Yeah, can we have an assurance
Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:34:07
that this might just be a green led youth council?
Because I've been involved with the Fannet Council
and that's all the councils,
Labour, Liberal, not sure if there's any greens in Fannet,
can't remember seeing any.
But can we have an assurance because it shouldn't be one sided
and we don't want the same thing to happen again,
that we're one against the other.
Let's make sure that all the councillors are involved, not just the Greens.
Sorry, can you switch off your microphone, please?
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:34:35
Do we have anybody else who'd like to speak? Councillor Lockwood.
Cllr Adrian Lockwood - 0:34:41
Thank you, Chair. How exciting, getting some young people involved.
We might get some bit of common sense, maybe. I don't know.
I'd just like to say how excited I am about this,
and thank you for all the officers and counselors
that have put work in, and a special thanks
to my colleagues here who brought this
to the fore originally, and have chased it and pushed it,
and we've got it over the line.
Oh sorry, I should say ex -colleagues as well.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:35:18
Anybody else like to speak?
Councillor Mike Blakemore.
Cllr Mike Blakemore - 0:35:26
Yeah, no, I'm of course excited about this as everyone is.
I'm really looking forward to the first forum.
Absolutely all councillors should be involved in it going forward,
but also it's very much, what we want it to be very much is the young people themselves
who are setting the agenda and telling us what they want to talk about rather than us
setting that for them and that's very much the direction of travel with it. But out of that will
come what are their priorities, what are they interested in and then we can get the right people
in the room to talk to them about that, officers and councillors. As somebody said, we have worked
very, very well with councillors, with officers to get to the point we've got to. I would also say
that Councillor Jones has really drive this forward and I think it's fair to say when we first talked
about this recently, where it was brought to Council some time ago, it possibly wasn't
the highest priority, it wasn't everyone's very busy, it's kind of like this is a big
thing to take on, but Council Jones has really got behind it and pushed it forward as Chair
and I think we're in a very, very good place, but acknowledging all of the support from
around the Chamber that picked us off in the first place and I'm really excited that we're
now at a point where we're actually going to have a youth forum.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:36:41
Thank you. I'm absolutely delighted that we're here now doing this. I tried something in
Hive very similar with primary school children last year. Again, very successful. This is
going to be fantastic. We're going to hopefully hear the voices from all over the district
and we need to make sure we act on what they say. That's the most important thing. I would
like to see a broad spectrum involved. So it's a bit of a trial at the moment. It's
new thing. We did a very small version when we were doing the corporate plan and it was
really successful. I was delighted. So this is on the back of that and I'd really like
to thank the officers involved, particularly Joe, who has worked really, really hard to
make sure this happens. So really excited and see after the first one we will report
back as long as there is an agreement that we can go ahead with the first one and let
you know where we're going with this.
So thank you for every support.
And if nobody else is going to speak,
I guess we need to vote for this.
So all of those in favor?
That's wonderful news.
Thank you.
OK, so moving on to item 12, we've

12 Housing Revenue Account Revenue and Capital Original Budget 2025-26

got the HRA account revenue and capital original budget
budget 2025 -26 and housing rent setting budget report 2025 -26.
Do we have a proposer?
Councillor Shoop, are you going to speak on this?
Thank you.
Thank you.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:38:11
So I'd like first of all to thank officers for all the work that's gone into preparing
this budget.
It reflects the ambitions we previously set out and agreed in the 30 -year HRA business
plan and it ensures that we can continue to progress our ambitions. It allows us
to build on the success we've already seen in increasing our housing stock. I
think we've got off to a brilliant start already over the last year or so and
this budget looks to continue a healthy sustainable program of adding much
needed affordable homes to the council's housing stock. So you'll see in the
new builds.
The capital budget also allows for potential conversion of Everest Court and Liming back
into homes, although I stress that no decision has yet been taken on this.
We've got urgent works that need to happen on exterior balcony walkways and sandgates.
There's budget for that.
We've got budget for installation of CCTV at some of our blocks.
We've got budget built in for any urgent health and safety capital works arising.
We've also got budget to retain our decarbonisation team.
We've built up a lot of in -house knowledge and expertise and I think it's essential
that we maintain this.
Tenants are already reaping the benefits of warmer, cheaper to run homes as a result of
their work.
So, I think it's fair to say that the capital budget generally sort of grabs the attention.
I think we all want to see as many new council homes as possible, but I do want to stress
that the revenue budget is, of course, just as important.
It underpins the great service that we want to deliver to our tenants, and it allows us
to maintain and improve the existing housing stock.
The housing team has absolutely transformed the housing service since it came back in -house,
and we really want to maintain that great work, and I believe this budget allows us
to do that.
So that brings me on to the rent setting and the service charges, which are reflected in
the proposed revenue budget, and the rents underpin the financial model of the business
plan.
So I hope it goes without saying, clearly no one here wants to put up rents.
You'll see that the rents are included at a 2 .7 % increase in line with government guidance
and the general service charges are also set at 2 .7%.
You'll see in the report that different rates do apply to the sheltered housing schemes,
which unfortunately currently have more expensive to run communal systems.
And I think it's worth noting that this is something that we're looking to address as soon as possible
through ongoing decarbonisation work.
So again, just like to thank officers, I know a huge amount of work has gone into this.
And I think it really focuses on what matters in delivering a great service to tenants
compliance and regulatory duties and standards and crucially increasing the availability
of much, much needed council homes across the district.
So I'd like to move the report and I hope you can support the budget.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:41:48
And somebody going to second that report.
Councillor Proater, would you like to speak on that, Councillor Proater?
You'll wait for the debate.
So it's now open for debate.
Councillor, Mrs. Hollingsby.
Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:42:04
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:42:05
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Jennifer Hollingsbee - 0:42:09
Yes, I welcome the report and thank you to the officers and to the cabinet member for
housing for that report.
Just one or two comments.
I see that there's going to be a post for a permanent surveyor and I welcome that.
So that's really good.
Every school is a strange one because I was quite concerned
when I read in here, not concerned because of providing
five flats, but because we've given answers to people
in Limage that we didn't quite know what we were going
to do with it.
So I don't know whether there's a little bit of conflict
there because if anybody looks at this like I did
and thinks, well, they said they didn't know quite
what they're doing, but they've got 300 ,000,
and they're talking about five flats there.
So just a comment.
I welcome on the heating charges for sheltered housing,
I welcome some interim protection
because I think that's really important.
And I'd just like to say generally,
we welcome the major projects instigated
by the previous administration progressing and pleased to see new ones. And I just, again,
I think, to thank officers and all the housing team for the work on new builds and land remediation
for housing. So I welcome the report. Thank you.
Thank you.
Councillor Keane.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:43:47
Cllr Nicola Keen - 0:43:52
Yes, thanks for the report and letting us know you're spending money.
I'm a little bit concerned though with the carbon improvement works.
Some of the residents in the Harbour Ward were promised new double glazing in 2021 -22.
When I brought it to the attention of officers that this work still hadn't been carried out,
although some of the work had been done,
I think four houses.
I was told that that work now was going to 2930.
So I'd like to see where all this carbon improvement work
is being done because there's only one road
that I know of in the Harbour Ward
and that's on the Durlocks.
You know, I haven't got a problem with updating
all council housing, it should be done
as a matter of course.
But you don't promise people new double grazing,
in 2021 and then tell them it's 2030. The houses are freezing cold, they're the older
stock in Penfold Road so everybody knows and I believe you've actually been to one of the
houses Councillor Sheebe, that was what I was told. So what I'm concerned about is where's
all this carbon work being done because we don't see a list, I'd like to see a list to
make sure that all the people who live in my ward are getting a fair crack of the whip.
Councillor Martin.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:45:09
Thank you very much, Chair.
Cllr Jim Martin - 0:45:15
Congratulations to Councillors, congratulations to Officers.
I'm hugely encouraged by the report.
I won't drone on and on, but two highlights for me is the decarbonisation program, our
reduces a people's cost.
It reduces the cost of heating homes.
It also tackles the biggest problem in social housing at the moment
is condensation and mould growth.
So it tackles that directly.
So while it does decarbonise, it also reduces tenant costs
and it tackles condensation and mould growth.
So I can't really applaud that anymore.
But I'd just like to point out that we set ourselves,
what we thought was quite an ambitious target
of 80 new homes for our term, 20 per year.
That was the target that we thought.
We're likely to double that, which is fantastic.
So that's more people in council housing.
All of our other associated problems,
not all but practically all of our associated problems
would be solved if we had more council housing.
Any minister, if you listen to Matthew Penicock,
more council housing solves a whole number of issues
on their agenda and we're doing it.
We're delivering double what we thought we could deliver.
So I just cannot praise the housing team officers, councillors, highly enough really for both
of those key points.
There's a lot of other good points in this, but I just want to highlight those two.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Councillor Prater.
Thank you.
You're about to find that the leader and I agree on almost everything, but don't consult
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:47:30
each other before we write our speeches, because I'm about to give that speech in a slightly
different order, I think.
One really important thing to look at here is that obviously nobody enjoys putting the
rent up on council housing, but the rent increase in here is set at 2 .7%, and as those watching
the news today, well, those watching the happier bits of the news today, will see that inflation
has hit 3 % at the moment, so it's actually a below inflation increase in rent.
Please don't watch the rest of the news, it really is too big.
Our average rents in Folkestone and Hive remain lower than in neighbours such as Dover.
And this budget contains £12 .7 million for new homes, which is more than this councilor
has spent in any year on record.
and I speak as somebody who spent most of my afternoon checking that record.
The plan adds 70 new homes to our housing stock next year,
which as Jim says, smashes our 20 homes target for next year,
and would be more properties added to our housing stock in any year in the last decade.
Again, I could have gone back longer than a decade, but I ran out of afternoon.
And we know exactly where they're coming from.
The report tells you where those homes are coming from.
we've got deals in place for all of those houses,
it's not a question of if we can build them,
it's a question of when we pick the keys up.
And our award -winning decarbonisation team,
and I practice saying that,
are continuing their work on improving our homes across the district.
And it's sad that David's not here tonight,
but before he complained that decarbonisation is just green nonsense,
what it's actually doing is improving and insulating
the homes that the council owns.
It makes them warmer to live in, it makes them nicer to live in, it makes them cheaper
to heat and it reduces the power that the residents have to pay to heat them.
It's a huge bonus for all of our current tenants and this budget means that more will be spent
on those improvements, I hope including in Harbour Ward, over the course of the next
year.
It's not my budget and it's not my report despite the odd drafting which puts my name
on this budget and this report, but it is an enormously good one.
And I'm sad that they're not in the room today,
but we should really be giving huge credit to Andy Blazkowicz
and the whole housing team who've made this happen.
There are some of us here that are old enough
to remember the huge issues that we had
with the wind -up of East Kent Housing
and the passing of the stock back to our control.
It was traumatic.
The condition of our stock was traumatic. We couldn't even be sure that some of them
were safe to live in. We hadn't got the reports and the fire safety certificates. And now
we can say that they are safe to live in. And we're improving them and we're adding
to them. And the team did that. The housing team did that. So this is lower than inflation
rent increases. It's more money on making our existing stock better. It's £12 .7 million
on new homes. It's 70 new homes that local people can live in at
local authority rates and it's cheaper rents, still cheaper rents, than our
neighbours such as in Dover and Canterbury. We can all pick holes in the
budget. I've made a history, our career, of making holes in the budget. But honestly, if you
wouldn't write this budget yourself, why? What would you change? What would you do
differently and if you'd broadly have written the same budget yourself, if you'd hoped to
have written this budget yourself, support it.
Oh, thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:51:22
Councillor Thomas.
Thank you, Chair.
Again, I think it's already been said, but I'll say it again, it's
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:51:29
really great that
the building aspirations that we've got for 44 units of Brisbane Barracks and the 26 in
in a way above the target that we set.
It's a pity we're stopping at Hith
because I'm going to mention Romney Marsh
because I've got to and I think, you know,
for the future I'd like to be saying,
so where are we extending that beyond the district?
Because I know what will be said back to me
as soon as this is in the public domain,
we're saying, well, what about Romney Marsh?
I do applaud the housing team for what they've done
and I think it's fantastic that we're able to say,
yep this is where we're putting our money.
In terms of the rate rises as has already been said you know that's well within the
rate of inflation that's been approved today.
I think the disappointing thing for me in the report is that it's only a single line
and I know it's completely outside of our control is local housing allowance rates and
the fact that they have been frozen again, they were unfrozen by previous administration,
they've been refrozen now.
So, we're in the position where LHS has not kept up with rising rents and the gap between
those two is getting bigger and bigger.
So my real concern is that we're going to have a lot of residents who could be just
in that margin where they need that additional support.
So I think for us as a council we need to understand what can we do to support those
residents who are most at risk and the most vulnerable members of our district and what
could we do to support them.
But, let's say, with the NHS being frozen,
I know it's completely outside of our control.
That's frozen for four years.
But again, that's on the back of this not rising for 10 years.
So again, for me, that's something
that I think as a council we need to make sure.
And I know the communications have gone out
about helping those people, particularly pensioners, who
are just on that margin of whether they're able to support
themselves or not.
So for me, as I say, I know it's completely outside of our control,
but again, I just want to make sure we highlight that and say,
look, this really is something that we've tried our best
to minimise that gap between what can be supported
through LHA and rising rents.
That's all, thank you.
Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:53:45
Councillor Hills.
Thank you, Chair.
Councillor Tony Hills - 0:53:53
I must say it's a great bit of work, I think.
So much work has gone into this.
You can see, I'd like to congratulate the officers,
as well as the cabinet member.
And it's excellent, I will support it.
But there's one small point I'd like to raise.
It's not a major one.
7 .4 on page 31, it says climate change implications.
There are no climate change implications
arising from these reports.
Well, it's talking about climate change
in the sense of making it more, in quotes,
from a climate point of view.
There's a climate risk.
Councillor Thomas Zouane preempted me, as usual, from Robby Marsh.
I agree with what you said, of course.
But we have got to look it out for stock
in the light of climate change weather -wise.
I spend a lot of my time on this and I worry about it a lot.
I had a report last week at my committee in Kent
which said it's getting worse,
like four degrees temperature rise by 2080,
nearly half a meter sea level rise by 2080.
I'm frantically trying to get some work done
to keep the marsh afloat,
and I think we can into the next century.
But we could have to do some crafty footwork on this
to make sure we keep groundwater down.
But we have housing stock
which needs protecting from extreme weather.
And all I say is, and this is all great,
but just keep it in mind next year.
Thank you. Councillor Godfrey.
Thank you. It's actually all been said.
Cllr David Godfrey - 0:55:30
But I will say that in my 18 years on this council,
my most rewarding and enjoyable time
was when we bought the housing stock in,
when I was in charge of the Portfogo,
so I'm really pleased that this continued to develop in the way it is
and happy to support this long way to go on. Thank you.
Thank you.
Do we have any more speakers?
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:55:48
Councillor McConville.
Cllr Connor McConville - 0:55:54
Just a couple of things, just to point out that haven't been mentioned yet.
I will say it's probably the most optimistic HRA budget I've seen since being a Councillor.
Obviously you pointed out the 12 million in new bills for this upcoming year, but if you
look at the forward plan, over 25 million over the next three years earmarked for new
bills and acquisitions.
And if we're able to swing it, if we could stack that a bit more at the back end before
we cease to exist, just to ensure there's as much stock as possible, that's just,
it's excellent.
And one of the other things that I thought was really, really quite good, which caused
me some concern when we passed the budget last year, that we took quite a bit out of
our reserve, but we're actually replenishing that reserve in this year as well as doing
all of that.
So that is another big positive in this budget as well.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Councillor Meade.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:57:00
I absolutely applaud New Wills, especially Council Housing.
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:57:05
Maybe I should speak up a bit, Tony.
You all right?
No, absolutely, we need social housing, we need council housing. I think my one concern
about this is that we're concentrating on the new and we're not looking after the
old. I'm sorry, but in East, the harbour's been brought up, but in East we have dreadful
problems with roofs, with windows, with doors that don't fit properly, all of which are
causing added costs to the residents.
But we're saying, no, don't worry,
we'll build lots of new homes.
What about the old homes?
We've got a certain amount of money going into windows.
I'm sorry, it's not enough.
It's not enough.
Because you can imagine being a council tenant,
your rent's going up,
but you can't turn your heating off
because you've got such a draught
coming through your windows,
that if you do turn it off,
then you're going to freeze.
There's something not quite right in this balance for me.
And I'd also, I think this is the sixth year running
I've raised this one.
On page 30, 3 .2 heating charges in sheltered housing.
It says, following the same approach as previous years,
it's recommended that service charges for heating
and hot water in sheltered housing schemes
should be set at actual cost or 10 % increase.
That should be whichever is the lower.
And I've said this year after year, so I get the feeling we've got a bit of cut and paste going on.
It's quite possible it happens, documents, but please, that needs to say whichever is the lower. Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:58:55
Thank you. Do we have anybody else who'd like to speak?
So we have a number of recommendations. Do we take it all together?
Or do we discount?
You can sign up.
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:59:26
Thank you.
Cllr Rebecca Shoob - 0:59:32
Yeah, it's a good tier.
I'm not going to repeat.
I've had quite a lot of confirmation of the benefits of having more council housing stock.
Yeah, and it's really, it's a really exciting prospect that we are going to be able to do
this.
It's brilliant news.
Just to go through some of the points that were raised, Everest Court, as I said, no
decision has been taken, but I do feel that we have to have budget in there.
It is the potential there for five homes in Liming can't ignore that, but no decision's
been taken and we will obviously consult with the local residents.
I know it is an issue in Liming.
very aware of that.
Councillor Keane, yeah, very happy to look at the issues in Penfold Road and Councillor
Any that you want to add to that list, very happy to look at those.
Councillor Thomas, absolutely, yeah, we have, you know, it's going to be district wide,
So the team is actively looking at any opportunities that come up.
It's imperative.
People need homes across the district so that please don't feel just because it's not in
the, you know, we haven't got a concrete development at the moment, it's definitely has to be in
the mix.
And on the local housing allowance, absolutely this has been raised with RMP.
It's crazy that it is so low and it's obviously a really particular issue for people having
to rent in the private rented sector because there's no relation whatsoever to actual rents
that people are having to pay.
Councillor Prater would be able to talk more about the, obviously we have the Welfare and
Benefits team, if people are in need of help, the team is there, and certainly that's
available for our tenants to approach their offices there.
Councillor Hill's absolutely couldn't agree more, and it is, I think it is mentioned
in the report that climate adaptive housing is absolutely what we need and that includes
works that are needed on our current stock.
So yeah, the team is well aware and that absolutely needs to happen.
I mean we're already seeing very clearly the effects of climate change.
So, yeah, that will happen.
So I think that's – I hope I've addressed everyone's points, but please do talk to
me if – can we – yeah, we can talk afterwards.
There's no more debate, sorry.
One of my points wasn't addressed.
It doesn't need to be.
She can come back to you at a later stage.
Very happy to talk after the meeting.
So I'd be yeah, I'm very happy to support this budget
and I hope you can support it too, thank you.
Thank you, now because it's a budget,
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:03:10
I believe we have to have the recorded vote.
So Gemma are you going to leave that?
Thank you.
Ms Jemma West - 1:03:19
Councillor Mike Blakemore.
For.
Councillor Polly Blakemore.
For.
Councillor Chapman.
For.
Councillor Cooper.
I'll stay.
Councillor Davidson.
4.
Councillor Godfrey.
4.
Councillor Holgate.
4.
Councillor Mrs Hollingsby.
4.
Councillor Hills.
4.
Councillor Jones.
4.
Councillor Keane.
Against.
Councillor Lockwood.
Abstain.
Councillor Alan Martin.
4.
Councillor Elaine Martin.
for. Councillor Jim Martin for Councillor McConville for
Councillor McShane for Councillor Mead.
Councillor Prater for
Councillor Scoffin for
Councillor Shoebe for
Councillor Speakman for
Councillor Thomas for
Councillor Walker for.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:04:52
So we have 20 votes for, one against and three abstentions.
So that has passed. Thank you.
Cllr Anita Jones - 1:05:15
Thank you everybody and that ends our meeting today. I hope you all have a lovely evening.