Finance and Performance Scrutiny Sub-Committee - Tuesday 11 March 2025, 6:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Finance and Performance Scrutiny Sub-Committee
Tuesday, 11th March 2025 at 6:00pm 

Agenda

Slides

Transcript

Map

Resources

Forums

Speakers

Votes

 

Welcome to Folkestone and Hythe District Council's Webcast Player.

 

UPDATE - PLEASE NOTE, MEETINGS OF THE JOINT TRANSPORTATION BOARD AND FOLKESTONE AND HYTHE DISTRICT AND PARISH COUNCILS' JOINT COMMITTEE WILL BE STREAMED LIVE TO YOUTUBE AT: bit.ly/YouTubeMeetings. 


The webcast should start automatically for you, and you can jump to specific points of interest within the meeting by selecting the agenda point or the speaker that you are interested in, simply by clicking the tabs above this message. You can also view any presentations used in the meeting by clicking the presentations tab. We hope you find the webcast interesting and informative.

 

Please note, although officers can be heard when they are speaking at meetings, they will not be filmed.

 

At the conclusion of a meeting, the webcast can take time to 'archive'.  You will not be able to view the webcast until the archiving process is complete.  This is usually within 24 hours of the meeting.

Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Alan Martin
  2. Mr Jake Hamilton
  3. Cllr Alan Martin
Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr John Wing
  2. Cllr Alan Martin
  3. Gavin Edwards
  4. Cllr Alan Martin
  5. Cllr John Wing
  6. Gavin Edwards
  7. Cllr John Wing
  8. Gavin Edwards
  9. Cllr John Wing
  10. Cllr Alan Martin
  11. Cllr Laura Davison
  12. Mr Jonathan Hicks
  13. Gavin Edwards
  14. Cllr Alan Martin
  15. Cllr Bridget Chapman
  16. Gavin Edwards
  17. Cllr Alan Martin
  18. Cllr Bridget Chapman
  19. Cllr John Wing
  20. Gavin Edwards
  21. Cllr Alan Martin
  22. Mr Jonathan Hicks
  23. Cllr Alan Martin
  24. Mr Jonathan Hicks
  25. Cllr Alan Martin
  26. Mr Ewan Green
  27. Cllr Alan Martin
  28. Mr Ewan Green
  29. Cllr Alan Martin
  30. Gavin Edwards
  31. Cllr Alan Martin
  32. Mr Jonathan Hicks
  33. Cllr Alan Martin
  34. Cllr Laura Davison
  35. Andrew Rush
  36. Cllr Laura Davison
  37. Cllr Alan Martin
  38. Gavin Edwards
  39. Cllr Alan Martin
  40. Cllr Tim Prater
  41. Cllr Alan Martin
  42. Mr Jonathan Hicks
  43. Cllr Alan Martin
  44. Cllr Laura Davison
  45. Mr Jonathan Hicks
  46. Cllr Alan Martin
  47. Webcast Finished

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:00:07
So good evening and welcome to the meeting of the Finance and Performance Scrutiny Subcommittee.
This meeting will be webcast live to the internet.
For those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed you will need to leave the Chamber.
For members, officers and others speaking at the meeting it is important that microphones
are used so viewers on the webcast and others in the room may hear you. Would anyone with
a mobile phone please switch it to silent mode as they can be distracting. I would like
to remind members that although we all have strong opinions or matters under consideration

1 Apologies for absence

it is important to treat members, officers and public speakers with respect. So evening
everyone. Here we are, slight surprise to be set up here but there you go. We've only
got one item on the agenda today but we'll start off with apologies for absence. Thank
Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:01:11
you chair, we have one apology from Councillor Burchard. Thank you
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:01:15
Jake. And declarations
of interest?

2 Declarations of interest

Just as a directive for opportunists.
Cllr John Wing - 0:01:25
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:01:30
OK, so we'll move on to our only item for this evening, which is the Q3 Performance
Report 2425 and Gavin, I think you're going to kick that off first.
Gavin Edwards - 0:01:42
Thank you, Chair and good evening members.
So this report provides an update for the Council's performance for the third quarter
of the 24 -25 year, covering the 1st of October to the 31st of December 2024. This report
enables the Council to assess progress against approved key performance indicators. The quarterly
performance report was set out for you in Appendix 1 and where that performance has
not been met, explanations have been given for the relevant service leads and noted within
the report. When the report was last presented to this committee in November, the colour
coded on target column was included with an amber tick to show where performance is on
track to meet target at the end of the year.
This was in addition to the amber cross that was previously introduced in the tour report
to show performance against those KPIs that are within 5 % of the set target.
We've now tried to make this clearer in the main appendix with a defined key on the bottom
of each page.
The report once considered this evening will be presented at Cabinet on the 26th of March.
We have some additional officers here on hand this evening to support the committee with
any questions you may have in relation to sections of the performance that are relevant
to their areas and we're happy to take any questions.
Thank you very much.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:02:51
Thank you Kevin.
Does anyone else have anything to add to that or open up to councillors?
John.
Thank you chair.
Once again thanks for the report.
Cllr John Wing - 0:03:04
Excellent it's so much easier than when we started doing this.
Can you just give me some updates on obviously the quality homes is where it sort of shows
the worst sort of things.
There's one bit that says talking about the gas and electric, there's an update in January
25th, obviously we're now in March.
Have you got a verbal update on that?
It's about I think it's gas or electric.
Thank you Councillor Wing for your comments on that.
Gavin Edwards - 0:03:36
It's to do with obviously the communal blocks,
particularly with the electricity one
with regards to Windpine House.
There is an ECIR electric and heatings works
that's going on there.
And I've been, from my understanding,
latest position is that will be completed mid -March.
So that is still waiting to be finalized.
The work is ongoing,
but the ECIR will be completed and certified mid this month.
With gas, year to date position is 100 % now.
so there is nothing that's not compliant from what I've got the positions I have
and that same is also happens with domestic electrical certification as well
that's now back up to 100 % from where it was now as well.
So the homes you couldn't get into basically you've gained access now I know it's a slight problem.
Cllr John Wing - 0:04:21
Moving on to some house building things when it says registered provider RP
are we talking housing associations I've taken it as well I don't know if it is or not
It mentions RPs or registered providers in the builders.
Is that housing associations basically?
Again, thanks for your comments there, Councillor Wing.
Gavin Edwards - 0:04:41
Yes, registered providers would be housing associations in relation to that.
I fully understand the position.
Cllr John Wing - 0:04:53
I know we're behind in responsibility for new homes.
I know it's a nationwide problem, isn't it?
because affordable housing providers are busy with cladding particularly at the moment
and other things, obviously they've got priorities and money is short
and they've only got a certain amount of money
and I'm sure the council is trying their best to get things moving
and also it was good to hear last month about a coalition of certain properties from the HRA
which was excellent news and hopefully being online shortly.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:05:28
Councilor Davidson. Thank you,
chair. Yeah, just just following on from that.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:05:34
I mean clearly that particular target.
We're we're well down on the
aim for the year aren't we so?
Ann, I don't know if there's anything
that can be said around any steps
that we collectively can take to
try and unlock that situation.
And then the other one that I just
wanted to ask about was the number
of households in temporary accommodation, which I think is also linked to the other
red crosses that we've got in that particular section.
But we have spoken about that before, and I know that the Council's been looking at
using units from the HRA to try and assist with that situation.
If you look at the trend,
the numbers have gone up and up, haven't they?
So again, where are we at with trying to resolve that
and bring that back closer to where our target is?
Thank you, Chair, Members. Good evening.
Mr Jonathan Hicks - 0:06:42
I can answer that one, or at least attempt to.
Yes, I completely acknowledge that the temporary accommodation figures
are going up. Just a bit of context there.
I think the increased levels of homelessness presentations around is nationally one of
the causal factors of that, not just the rough sleeping.
The council does have an annual budget of about 300 ,000 for temporary accommodation
and from April we've secured a framework of providers, ranking providers in order of value
for money and as you said we've been making use of the council's own housing
stock and we're feasible so I think we've secured potentially about 10 to 30
units on that one. I think the longer term thing issue here is we've got to
identify the cost of that and particularly where we also have to,
we're asking all clients placed in TA to complete benefit applications which will
cost on that, so we need to plan for
actually higher numbers and I think our
targets when they were set was set last
year and actually we would be more
realistic that actually we're not going
to meet that target and have to plan for
the fact that we need to house more people
in temporary accommodation before we can
secure permanent accommodation for them.
Gavin Edwards - 0:08:13
And also thank you for the comment there
Councillor Davidson on the affordable
homes as well in terms of the specific actions and next steps.
I would have to obviously speak with the relevant housing colleagues with that and provide a
response back to the committee.
Now obviously the team are working on probably a number of ways they can try and bring things
forward where possible, but in terms of the actual specifics I would have to bring back
a formal response.
I'm very happy to share it written to this committee.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:08:40
I'm brand new to this committee,
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:08:46
so please bear with me.
I just wondered in terms of residents,
how will the findings of this report
be communicated to them,
and if there are any opportunities
for them to feed back regarding these results,
maybe with suggestions about how
performance could be improved.
Thank you for your comments there
Gavin Edwards - 0:09:13
Councilor Chapman on that.
We do publish these on our website.
They're obviously part of the transparency
of these committee packs as well,
and I understand that potentially
it may not be seen visibly at the
forefront for members of the public.
We do have a page on our website as
well for performance where we do
publish these once they are also
approved by cabinet in terms of
feedback from people as well on performance as well.
We do conduct, obviously, specifically for the housing
as well, we do staff the strategic tenants advisory panel
on those as well so they can scrutinize our performance
as well, but the main thing we do at the moment
is we just publish them on our website
so people can download them, they can have a look through,
and then obviously yourselves as members,
if you have any particular questions on behalf of that,
you can always, I say, contact us as well on that.
Thank you.
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:10:06
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:10:06
Cllr John Wing - 0:10:08
Quickly, moving on from that, would it be worthwhile having worked with the social media team,
perhaps putting the messages out about we know a publisher now, new performance figures,
you can see a link here, something like that, just to bring it more to the front?
Thank you for your comments here, Councillor.
Gavin Edwards - 0:10:28
I can have a conversation with our commenting engagement team with regards to that.
They do obviously look at the reports as well to see if there's any particularly good messaging
or narrative from them as well.
But yeah, I'm happy to have that conversation with them.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:10:40
Jonathan do you want to come in?
Mr Jonathan Hicks - 0:10:42
Yes, it was just on the back of Councillor Chapman's comment there.
Just to clarify my colleagues point about the tenant panel, that's specifically for
tenants that we house as part of our landlord service.
So we've got about three and a half, three and a half thousand.
And they're representatives of tenants and they come quarterly to scrutinise just the indicators that relate to the housing landlord service.
And that's part of the regulatory function.
We have to provide that opportunity for them to scrutinise the figures the same way that you're doing it.
Thank you.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:11:31
So I had a couple of questions myself.
First of all I'd agree with Councillor Wing.
These KPIs both in terms of how they've been presented, explained and the actual metrics
themselves have really come on in the last 12 months.
It's really excellent work and it's really only in that quality homes and infrastructure
section where we're a bit behind but I know from the conversation we had at the last meeting
that we've made tremendous progress going in and continue to do so in 2025, which is
fantastic.
I had a few questions.
One on the KPIs around rough sleepers, B &B accommodation and temporary accommodation,
we make the comment a number of times around the fact that we have an issue with single
people with complex needs and it's not easy to find appropriate stock.
I was just keen to sort of better understand what the I mean I can see that that is a that
is a challenge but interested to better understand what the what the issues are and what we're
what we're doing to overcome that if we can.
Mr Jonathan Hicks - 0:12:39
Thank you chair that might be one we need to be helpful to have our specialist for the
housing team here.
We've got the comments from from him but certainly take that comment away and we can maybe just
provide a bit more information about some of the challenges that they're facing at the moment.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:12:57
Thank you for that. My next question is you might want to add to that list possibly, but I'll
go through them anyway. So, under the affordable homes delivered by the council, we make the point
that it's difficult to find partners who are struggling with borrowing and zero carbon
retrofitting costs. I was just wondering with the, obviously we can't do anything about the
but the retrofitting requirements,
are they requirements that we're setting?
Or are they national requirements?
And if they're within our remit,
I wonder whether we can consider flexing
some of those rules to make life easier
for ourselves.
Mr Ewan Green - 0:13:38
Thank you, chair.
I think the comment there is in relation
to new programs going forward.
So the registered providers,
the housing associations are prioritizing
retrofitting as opposed to new build development at times.
Therefore their first call on their budgets is retrofitting,
which the government policy direct is not from the council.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:14:03
So they're not being put off from the costs associated
with projects we want to work with them on as such?
Mr Ewan Green - 0:14:10
No, I think both the council and partners
are challenged by costs.
but knowing the team's approach, they're very much engaged
with a whole number of developers across the district,
looking for opportunities for the HRA business plan in particular
to help out and acquire affordable homes.
That's great, thank you for that.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:14:31
And then just on...
So under a percentage of homes that meet decent home standards,
that's another area where excellent work's being done,
and I think we note that there are just 72 houses remaining there and I just wonder if
we can get an update on where we are.
Thank you for that Chair.
Gavin Edwards - 0:14:54
So in relation to the decent home standards obviously the report there mentions 98%.
I can confirm obviously the year to date position now is 99 so it is on target.
We do have just 37 reported failures left so that number is continuing to come down
Obviously from the start of the year when we had obviously 389, so that number is continuing to come down
and the team are, as far as we're on track to meeting that and finalizing all of that.
Jonathan?
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:15:24
Mr Jonathan Hicks - 0:15:25
Thanks Gavin. Just to add to that, for context, the way that the Decent Homes works is that there are certain types of property
and certain types of fittings and things like kitchens and bathrooms
that have a certain shelf life.
So when they get to the end of their designated time
they fall off the list of them becoming non -decent.
So at the beginning of each financial year
there'll be a number of properties that will be flagged as failing
which will then have to go out and be inspected
even if they're reasonable and they have to be checked
and then added to the list if there's improvements made,
which is why at the beginning of the year
we tend to have a higher number.
It's not suddenly that they're falling into disrepair,
it's that a lot of them have come under the shelf life
for how long a roof is supposed to be.
And the team worked through a programme
to reduce that back to target at the end of the year.
So we're actually very pleased
that we've got to the second month
towards the back of the year and we've refit 99%.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:16:39
Did any other councillors have any further questions?
Councillor Davidson.
I was just going to ask about the recycling rates
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:16:46
because although they're obviously slightly up
on what they were, actually they're down
on the last two quarters, aren't they?
And we're still off target on that.
So that seems to have been a consistent position.
So again, just a question really around how we're trying to address that.
Go ahead.
Andrew Rush - 0:17:15
The light doesn't come on that one.
OK, you hit me right.
Thank you for the question.
Actually, quarter -free was a very big quarter for us in terms of recycling
because, as you say, we've been looking at our recycling all the time.
The 50 % target, which is obviously a national target,
I don't want to describe it as aspirational, but it's certainly challenging.
Recycling nationally, as you know, is like a flat line.
We are slightly above that, which is a good position to be in.
But what we did in quarter three, we actually had three programmes on the go.
We had the ultra -narrow round,
which introduced recycling to about 500 properties.
We had the raise the rate campaign, so I started getting going.
We also did the stickers on bins.
That all came to a head in quarter three.
We really felt if this did not shift the rate,
then we really would have problems,
because the trends are very much against us,
particular packaging getting lighter.
So we're actually very pleased to see that the actual rate comparable
to that quarter the previous year has gone up by about 2%.
I will say that these are the unverified figures
and we have seen them go in either direction
when we can't finalise those.
So there is an element of caution on that.
We are pleased to hear.
In terms of trends over the quarters,
you will get bigger quarters in the summer
when you get the particular garden waste coming on.
So that's why quarter three tends to go a bit lower.
But overall, much as it doesn't sound like much of a game,
but a 2 % gain is actually bucking the trend, so we are pleased.
Our goal now is to retain that as we go into quarter four and beyond,
which is the big question.
But overall we're pleased.
Looking ahead it's going to get even tougher
because we've got things like DRS,
the Spatial Recovery Scheme, starting in October 27th,
which could potentially take a lot of plastic out of our recycling.
So, you know, it's going to be a tough one ahead.
But we're pleased to see where we are on quarter three.
Can I just come back to be properly appreciative then
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:19:42
of the work that's been done and the uplift that there is
between a year ago and now?
It was a very visible campaign, that with the stickers and so on.
I hadn't properly appreciated that I'd fallen within that quarter's calculation.
So that's positive what you've said there
and hopefully that trend will continue.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:20:05
Any further questions or points?
I had one question which is...
I wonder if someone can just remind us what the cycle is for when we start reviewing KPIs
for the following year. I guess that's sometime soonish.
Gavin Edwards - 0:20:26
Thank you for that, Chair. So obviously last year we brought the annual performance report
for the previous financial year. So along with that we did bring a draft suite of the
KPIs. I believe obviously last year the FPSC at that time was in June, subject to obviously
what will happen with the government structures, committee timetables when they're finalised.
We will aim to bring something back hopefully in the summertime if the structure obviously
stays the same and this committee will bring it back through that channel for you to have
a look at in terms of what we're doing. We are already starting to do some initial early
work on looking at targets and getting associated KPIs for the coming year ahead, but you will
have a chance to have a look at that.
So, going hopefully towards the summertime.
Thanks for that.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:21:12
I'll keep my powder dry for later in the year, assuming we're still here.
But I still have a slight beef with the KPIs we have around fly tipping,
which obviously I've shared with you before.
But I think an example of something where we're showing 100 % success,
and I think most people dotted around the countryside in particular
wouldn't really feel that.
People see quite large fly tipping, for instance, across the marsh.
It's very visible, it doesn't get cleared up within a day.
We all know why it doesn't, because it's often not on public land,
but the reality is residents see it as being an issue
and they see it as something that isn't being addressed
KPIs show everything as being green, so there's a bit of a mismatch there, which I'd quite
like to find.
I also appreciate the reasons why we do things as we do, but I think it looks a bit strange
when we have a public document that shows the performance of the council relating to
the residents, and the residents would form a very different view versus what we're showing
in the KPI, at the very least maybe there's a bit of extra communication required around
that possibly.
Tim, you're frowning, would you like to speak?
Cllr Tim Prater - 0:22:44
Yeah, it's difficult because this is a report which is effectively measuring council performance,
isn't it?
How well we're doing at stuff.
It's not about measuring district performance, how well the district is doing at stuff, and
that includes the residents.
So, for instance, if you've got a clean street metric,
we can measure how often we clean the streets,
we can measure what our testing is and how clean the streets are
when they are tested and things like that.
But you can't build in a KPI of people...
how many people are dropping litter, because we can't control that.
We can control how often we enforce on it,
we can control how often we sweep it up,
how often we take people to court for doing stuff about it.
bug. You haven't got any control of whether somebody drops a can tomorrow. And that's
kind of the same thing with fly tipping. I'd totally take your point, that's actually
what you'd like to see is less people fly tipping, less instances of fly tipping, people
seeing less of those, but we can't control that, haven't got that ability. Agreed as
well that you could, you know, your metric in terms of, you know, any instance of fly
is cleaned up within X days.
But again at that stage, unless people have been through the investigation
and things like that, you just end up clearing up more and more people's lives,
more and more unlicensed waste carriers,
and dealing with more and more issues.
You need to go through the process in terms of identifying where possible
who's doing it.
So I'm trying to get you out, going back years in terms of looking at metrics like this,
and it's really difficult to get the balance of trying to measure
what the council is doing and whether we are doing our job well,
and whether the district is looking the way that we want it to,
and whether people from outside perceive a district
are two slightly different measures,
and two slightly different things which are...
You've got to be careful in terms of how you measure those KPIs
and how you present them,
because there are some things that we can move the dial on,
and we can look at this and go, it's red, we should do X, Y and Z in order to turn that
into amber or green.
And then there are some things which you can't turn the dial on.
It's like TA cases at that stage.
It's red, it's going to be red, because we'd set a lower target based on the last year
and more people have presented.
But the only way you're going to tackle that is A, there is less people presenting in terms
of needing TA immediately right now, will you put your target up?
I can't stop people coming forward to TA.
I don't want to stop people coming forward to TA.
If they need TA, we should dead well provide it.
Our issue there is whether we've got enough in order to meet the needs.
So it's about...
It is difficult to do that presentation.
I'm really keen that we find a way of managing to make it work
and we can do it.
And just in terms of timetable, I'd say that it's important
that we try and work out how we interface the new corporate plan and the things that
we say within that and how, if that affects any of the KPIs that we're looking at, because
obviously it's a key performance indicator, so if it's in the corporate plan and we're
saying we should be doing this, then the KPIs that we're measuring should be looking at
those things as opposed to things that were in the previous corporate plan and have been
removed etc. So, shifting those around, I think the timetable, I think will probably
fit together quite well on that because I think that the new corporate plan should be
coming forward in June to Council.
I think I remember from the conversation earlier.
So that fits relatively neatly together,
but it's just to try and make sure that this subcommittee
does get that sight of it and does get to map those KPIs
to the new corporate plan as it comes through.
But I'm sure Gavin will give us a very, very good,
Gavin and Jonathan will give us a very good first stab of that.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:26:32
Brilliant, thanks Tim. And Jonathan?
Thanks Tim, thanks Chair.
So yeah, nice little segue in there.
Mr Jonathan Hicks - 0:26:37
I think that's quite a good opportunity to speak about
since we're mentioning reviewing the KPIs
and the function of the committee.
Quite rightly, we have a new corporate plan
that is yet to be formally agreed.
And once that is agreed, what we are planning to do
is agree the first sort of set of actions and deadlines
in that for the first financial year,
noting those key deliverables,
some of which will be measurable by KPIs
and other things will be physical things that we do.
And it's likely that we'll report progress
on sort of high -level actions every six months.
But in addition to that,
we're looking to potentially expand our suite
of performance indicators similar to what you would see
seeing here to include regulatory and statutory indicators alongside those ones which relate
specifically to the corporate plan.
There may be things that members will need sight of formally that isn't necessarily a
strategic corporate plan action.
So you're likely to see a corporate plan action and a flag which ones support the corporate
plan and other KPIs as well.
So you'll have more to scrutinise, you'll have a lot more and more opportunities to do that.
Just a note on that though, any key statutory, regulatory information is already reported to portfolio holders through the relevant service leads.
Currently this is more about looking to bring all that reporting together in one place to facilitate that better scrutiny and discussion in a formal way.
Thanks for that, Jonathan.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:28:31
Has that provoked any other thoughts or comments from any of the councillors?
Councillor Dobson.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:28:42
You talked about every six months with some of the indicators.
That's in addition to the quarterly you're talking about.
Yes, thank you. Just to clarify on that,
will have quarterly performance,
Mr Jonathan Hicks - 0:28:55
but it would be data KPIs pretty much
like the data report you get in in this
committee and the six monthly update
would be more high level note on
delivering on those actions to more
focused on the corporate plan and I
think we'll use the committee to focus
on the specific delivery on performance KPIs.
Absolutely those ones will still show progress against those corporate plan actions.
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:29:31
Is that all OK?
OK, so if there aren't any other comments or questions, I think our recommendation is to receive and note the report.
So I'm looking for a proposer.
So, Councillor Davidson and a seconder, Councillor Wing.
Everyone agreed?
Agreed.
Thank you.
So, that, I think, takes us to the end of the agenda.
So, thanks for coming out everyone and see you next time.