Overview and Scrutiny Committee - Tuesday 22 April 2025, 6:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Overview and Scrutiny Committee
Tuesday, 22nd April 2025 at 6:00pm 

Agenda

Slides

Transcript

Map

Resources

Forums

Speakers

Votes

 

Welcome to Folkestone and Hythe District Council's Webcast Player.

 

UPDATE - PLEASE NOTE, MEETINGS OF THE JOINT TRANSPORTATION BOARD AND FOLKESTONE AND HYTHE DISTRICT AND PARISH COUNCILS' JOINT COMMITTEE WILL BE STREAMED LIVE TO YOUTUBE AT: bit.ly/YouTubeMeetings. 


The webcast should start automatically for you, and you can jump to specific points of interest within the meeting by selecting the agenda point or the speaker that you are interested in, simply by clicking the tabs above this message. You can also view any presentations used in the meeting by clicking the presentations tab. We hope you find the webcast interesting and informative.

 

Please note, although officers can be heard when they are speaking at meetings, they will not be filmed.

 

At the conclusion of a meeting, the webcast can take time to 'archive'.  You will not be able to view the webcast until the archiving process is complete.  This is usually within 24 hours of the meeting.

Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Laura Davison
Share this agenda point
  1. Microphone A
  2. Cllr Laura Davison
Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Laura Davison
Share this agenda point
Share this agenda point
  1. Llywelyn Lloyd
  2. Adrian Tofts
  3. Cllr Laura Davison
  4. Cllr Paul Thomas
  5. Cllr Laura Davison
  6. Llywelyn Lloyd
  7. Cllr Laura Davison
  8. Cllr James Butcher
  9. Councillor Tony Hills
  10. Councillor Tony Hills
  11. Cllr Laura Davison
  12. Cllr Bridget Chapman
  13. Cllr Laura Davison
  14. Llywelyn Lloyd
  15. Cllr Laura Davison
  16. Cllr Anita Jones
  17. Cllr Laura Davison
  18. Cllr Alan Martin
  19. Cllr Laura Davison
  20. Cllr Laura Davison
  21. Councillor Tony Hills
  22. Cllr Laura Davison
Share this agenda point
  1. Gavin Edwards
  2. Cllr Laura Davison
  3. Gavin Edwards
  4. Gavin Edwards
  5. Cllr Laura Davison
  6. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  7. Gavin Edwards
  8. Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly
  9. Gavin Edwards
  10. Cllr Laura Davison
  11. Cllr Paul Thomas
  12. Cllr Laura Davison
  13. Councillor Tony Hills
Share this agenda point
  1. Cllr Laura Davison
  2. Councillor Tony Hills
Share this agenda point
  1. Councillor Tony Hills
  2. Webcast Finished

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:01
the overview and scrutiny committee.
The meeting will be webcast live to the Internet.
For those who don't wish to be recorded or filmed,
you'll need to leave the chamber.
For members, officers and others speaking at the meeting,
it's important that the microphones are used
so viewers on the webcast and others in the room
may hear you.
Would anyone with a mobile phone please switch it to silent
as they can be distracting.
I'd like to remind members that although we all have
strong opinions on matters under consideration,
it's important to treat members, officers and public
speakers with respect.

1 Apologies for Absence

Good evening everybody and welcome to the committee meeting.
We'll start with apologies for absence.
Thank you chair.
Microphone A - 0:00:40
We've received apologies from Councillor McConville and Councillor Thomas is here as his substitute.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:45
Thank you and are there any declarations of interest?

2 Declarations of Interest

No.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:52
Okay, thank you.

3 Minutes

So we'll move on to item three which is the minutes.
So you'll have in front of you the minutes of the meeting held on the 18th of February
and the 11th of March.
Are there any comments on those?
Otherwise, can I have a proposer?
Councillor Butcher and a seconder?
Councillor Chapman.
And is that agreed?
Thank you.

4 Minutes of the Finance and Performance Sub-Committee

And the minutes of the Finance and Performance Subcommittee meeting held on the 11th of March.
Can I have a proposal for those?
That's the Martin, sorry,
and seconder counselor wing and is
that agreed with the body agreed?
OK, thank you.

5 Transparency of the Planning Process

Okay, thank you.
So we'll move on to our first main item of the evening, which is the transparency of
the planning process.
Llewellyn, are you going to introduce this for us?
Thanks.
Thank you, Chair.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:02:03
Good evening councillors. The report before you tonight is in response to a previous item
raised by the overview and scrutiny committee work programme and deals with how planning
is hopefully as transparent as possible and how we seek to encourage members of the public
to engage in the planning process both at a plan making stage but also in the decision
taking stage. We've recently had some significant changes to legislation in respect of plan
making and I'll refer to Adrian in two minutes just to touch on that briefly.
What I'd like to say is obviously this is the work to date.
If there are matters the members feel where we could improve on public transparency, please
let us know and we'll happily take those away and consider them for future changes to the
system.
I'll just pass to Adrian briefly to touch on the plan making changes.
Yes, thank you.
Adrian Tofts - 0:02:55
Under the current system, which is the Planning and Compulsive Purchase Act, we have to prepare
prepare what's called a statement of community involvement which sets out how we involve
communities both in development management enforcement and also in local plan making.
We predicted our last statement of community involvement in 2022 and we consulted on that
with the public before we finalised it and you can find it on our website.
But in relation to local plan making, under the current system, it is a lengthy process
and we engage the public at each stage.
We have to undertake consultation to meet what we've set out in the Statement of Community
Involvement at each stage in the process.
At the end of the process, we submit the plan together with all of the public comments we've
had to the Secretary of State and we enter a formal public examination and any member
of the public who's made comments during the preparation of the plan has the right to appear
at the public examination and we as a council appear before the examination and it's presided
over by independent planning inspectors appointed by the Secretary of State.
As was set out in the report, the public examination could be very lengthy.
For the Core Strategy Review, we were in a public examination for almost two years.
We held public hearings into every detailed aspect of the plan for almost eight months.
If there are any changes at that stage, they are also put out to public consultation and
the comments go to the planning inspector who then makes a final decision in a report
at the end of it.
And if the report is favorable, then we can go on to adopt the plan and use it to make
planning decisions on individual sites.
And that's kind of the system as it is, but as Llewellyn has said, it is changing.
The government brought in the leveling up and regeneration act in 2023 and that sets
out a different system.
We don't know much of the detail yet but we do know that the government is intending to
bring in a very strict time scale for the preparation of new style local plans and those
must be completed within 30 months.
We do know that in the new system there will be two periods of public consultation.
The first one will be public consultation on the kind of general vision and strategy
of the new local plan.
That will be for six weeks and then at the end there will be a public consultation for
eight weeks on the detail of the plan.
And then again we will go into a public examination in front of independent inspectors.
But at this point in time we don't know a great deal more about how that is going to work.
So there will be opportunities in terms of public consultation under the new system.
The government is very much stressing the need for engaging a wider group of people.
It sees some of the faults with the current system as being the same people always kind of respond.
and it wants to get a much younger audience,
and there is much more of a focus on digital engagement
as part of the new system.
So there will be opportunities,
but there will also be constraints
in that we will have this very focused
and strict timetable to meet.
So that is a brief overview of what's coming our way
for the next Local Plan.
Okay, thanks very much both of you.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:07:06
Our job is to receive and note the report,
but I think there will be points that people want to raise,
so just open it up.
If you'd like to go first.
Councillor Thomas.
Thank you, Chair.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:07:23
I think just a couple of positives,
which are probably not included in the report,
as strong as they perhaps should be, if I may.
What is in the report is the Planning Committee
we do receive regular updates and training from planning officers,
which is really useful in terms of continuous learning.
And that helps us in terms of transparency
and the things that we can do to help to support the planning process.
I think the other thing which doesn't come out very strongly in the report,
but is very, very powerful,
is the fact that we received weekly updates on new planning applications,
the decisions, those things are taken
and they're used by the Town and Parish Council planning committees
to provide feedback through the normal agenda's normal business
to make sure that people do understand the decisions have been made,
why decisions have been made, and again that's very, very powerful in terms of transparency.
People can see those things and understand a little bit more about the process.
I think the other positive thing which has happened,
which used to happen years ago, but has happened again more recently,
is the feedback on appeal decisions from the planning spectrum.
Again, we receive regular updates now as a planning committee on that,
so that we can learn as a planning committee,
but more importantly, the public can understand the basis for appeals,
why some appeals are upheld and why some are rejected,
and the impact of those as well.
I think that's important for that to understand.
From a transparency point of view, those three aspects there
I think have really moved the council on
in terms of its transparency with councillors and with the general public.
I think that's a real pulse.
On the downside, and something which is not included in here,
which I think would be quite handy,
is the change which happened to the public register,
which makes it a little bit more difficult now to view documents.
You used to be able to click on a document, you could see the view,
and then you didn't have to download it.
Now you have to download it and it just takes time.
So again, in terms of transparency, that could put people off.
And again, if that could be reverted back to where it was,
I think that would help transparency a lot.
I realised that if it was easy to do, it would already be done.
I accept that, but I just wanted to raise that point.
Tied in with that is that the transfer of information from one system to another,
when you look at some of the legacy files, they do have generic names on it,
it will say report.
But if you're looking for something specific in a legacy application,
You may end up going through 20, 30 odd reports
before you find the one you're looking for.
As you have to download every one of those as well,
it can take a lot of time.
In terms of transparency, that has to help the situation.
If you can't move on from there, what would be useful
is to make sure people understand what it is they need to do
when they interface with the public register.
I think that would be very beneficial.
I think the second thing, which is an area that we get questioned on as councillors,
which doesn't always come back to committee and faculty, it rarely does,
is on non -completion of planning conditions.
We get challenged on, our neighbours done this,
and we were told there was a condition about this wall being a certain height,
or this being in a particular place.
And if those things are not always followed up and signed off,
then again, I think that doesn't help the transparency of the planning system,
because again, it's one of those things where people will take that and say,
well, we don't do what we say we're going to do.
Does that make sense?
So again, I think what we've been asked recently is,
Would there be a way of tracking all those conditions
as reported back on a regular basis?
So we could say, this is the percentage of applications
that we've approved this year,
this is the number of conditions,
and these are the ones that we've completed.
I think that way, we get an idea of how many we're talking about.
These things tend to be important to the people at the front end
who maybe commented on the planning application in the first place,
and they've set their stall in the fact that a condition's been applied,
which would satisfy their requirement.
It could be something as relatively straightforward
as the layout of...
an arbitrary layout
for a particular scheme that is then not followed up.
So, it could be something really big or something really small,
but I think for me to have something that we'd be able to feed back
to our residents would be very handy.
So that's really fine.
I think the rest of it is set in here,
and the public interface that we do with the local plan
and with the core strategy and things like that,
I mean, it's laudable, isn't it, the amount of time that we take
and the attention to detail in that aspect
of the way we transact our business.
I don't think anybody would criticize this.
In fact, we should be given points to our council officers
for the amount of transparency that you have through that process.
everybody has a voice, which is what we're looking for.
Thank you, Chair.
Thanks, Councillor Thomas.
I'll just come back to colleagues.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:13:09
Did you want to pick up on the technical points about the tracking system and also the downloading
versus being able to view items?
Thank you, Chair.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:13:20
They're all very good points and I'll take those away.
I think on the downloading, that shift was made to actually ease users.
Previously there were multiple clicks that had to take place and depending on what system
using, it became more complicated and we shifted the system to limit the amount
of clicks the user had to do to get hold of that document because previously it
was only loading partially, you couldn't zoom into that document. So it felt like
you've got to download it to zoom into it, you might as well just go straight to
downloading and getting on with it, but I'll take the point. I think legacy files is
something that planning officers themselves struggle with. These are
things that have happened over the decades.
And we ourselves internally struggle
with our old naming systems.
But I think going forward, hopefully things are clearer.
And just quickly touching on the non -compliance of conditions,
I think there's a technical point here is that planning
conditions are the requirement to the applicant to satisfy,
as opposed to the planning authority to satisfy.
In theory, without discharging your planning conditions,
you don't have planning condition,
and that is sort of the legal basis
for why conditions are attached.
In terms of numbers, take it away.
My concern would be, as a planning authority,
we issue about 2 ,000 decisions a year.
If we attribute between four and ten conditions per decision,
that's how many conditions there are in any one year,
which the applicants are beholden to.
What we do do is all those conditions,
when submitted, are on the website
under a separate reference and linked to their case file and the public can interact with
that and they can ask us where those are.
Ultimately it is the responsibility of all applicants to make sure that their conditions
are discharged and complied with because if they're not they're the people running the
risk of non -compliance and the planning commission not actually being lawful.
That helps clarify that much but I'll take the points away and we'll continue to review
those.
Thank you, Councilor Butcher.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:15:24
Yeah, thanks chair and thank you for the report.
Cllr James Butcher - 0:15:30
Really comprehensive and I guess the question is sort of reading all the
things that the Council does to be transparent. The question for me or the
exam questions you like is and is that having the desired result?
And how do we tell whether we have a transparent system or not?
And I suppose all we can go on is the sort of anecdotal evidence that we get
of whether it's fair or unfair town or parish
councillors saying our comments, our decisions are not being properly taken
by the council or the public saying all sorts of things from brown envelopes being exchanged
to whatever they're going to end up saying.
And what that indicates is there's a bit of a gap between all the activity intended to create
transparency and the extent to which that transparency has actually been created.
And I guess that's what, you know, in section 2 .67 onwards, Wade is saying, well, are there
more things that we could do within the financial constraints?
I guess that's really another thing.
And I suppose it's thinking about, you know, helping us when we're having those conversations
to be as educators we need to be about the system.
And just a bit, you were talking about railroading around planning conditions.
I imagine most people out there wouldn't have that sense at all.
The way you've described that will probably be news to most people.
So that feels like we've got a gap there.
The more educated we are, the better we can do it.
I guess there's then the relationship with the town and parish councils
and the extent to which the planning forum is meeting regularly enough
and doing the kind of job it needs to do.
And when I look at the website, clearly there's lots of things.
if you want to do this click here,
if you want to do that click there.
I think if you just want to understand, at a broad level,
the fundamental principles underlying the planning system,
that's not so straightforward.
Or to get the latest news, I was looking at Dover's,
they've just started a newsletter
that I haven't had much of a chance to read through it,
but it's quite a helpful, friendly way,
both to give some principles, but also some updates
on significant planning things.
So one of the questions I often get asked is,
so, Osvalda, is that happening or what?
So again, a huge gap between all the things we might like to think that we're doing by way of communicating
and whether that communication is having the desired effect.
And I think for me, it sort of, yeah, I guess it concerns me that there isn't as much confidence
as I would like to see in our communities that the system is working in the way they would expect it to work.
And that's not a criticism of the system, I think it's just this gap we've got that would be great to find some ways to bridge
so that people get a better sense of what the limitations are,
whether their expectations are realistic or not,
and for it to feel fair.
I think that's what the triangle is.
Thanks, Jim.
Thanks. Councillor Hills.
Councillor Tony Hills - 0:18:26
Councillor Tony Hills - 0:18:27
Is that working? Yes. Thank you, Chair.
Yes, I think it's a historic problem in some ways, that nobody trusts planning.
It's a very sad situation. I know how hard our offices work.
And I... well, one... no, totally honest.
That's historic, by the way.
But the public have this problem with it, and I think it's something we should just...
I totally agree with what the Councillor said already and support
that we need better transparency and more simple forms of transparency.
I'm a great person in layers.
You get your first paragraph, it explains the basic bones of the thing.
If you want to know more, you go down to the second layer,
you get a couple of pages. You want to go further, you get the whole thing.
And that way people can choose at what level they go to.
And that makes life so much simpler, particularly in the 106s for example.
Housing development is going insane.
You're Romney, they want to know where the 106 money went.
Why isn't it being spent here?
There's always very good reasons why we do things,
but it doesn't always permeate into the public's mind.
And I think one of the problems I've always had,
and I know it's for costs, I guess it's for cost,
is not taking it to planning committee,
making it a reserve of officers to make decisions.
I understand it has to be because of sheer volume of work.
We haven't got the staff that could do all that.
If they had the staff, it would be complaining about the size of the council tax.
But it's really a case of how we communicate that.
It's all about communication to me.
It's not easy, and it really isn't easy,
but I think you've got to look at it on a regular basis.
I know we think websites are wonderful and everything else,
but I still have people in my area
who couldn't use a computer.
So it's difficult, certainly going to fall broadband.
So we've got to make sure we work on as many levels as we can.
And we should use parish councils more, send out more information
how things in their parish have been solved, decided or whatever.
And I think that would be more helpful.
But it's all work in progress I think, Chair.
Thanks, Councillor Tappell.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:20:49
Thanks, Chair.
Cllr Bridget Chapman - 0:20:55
Just to build on what Councilor, first of all, actually,
to build on what Councilor Thomas was saying,
I think the entire committee would like to thank you
for the report, which is excellent and really thorough,
and for the work that your department does.
Just building on what Councilor Butcher was saying,
in terms of this, and it's not, there's no easy answer,
but this mismatch between kind of legislation
within which people are working,
and the large amounts of work that's been done,
huge amounts of work that's been done
to make it transparent.
And the fact that on the ground,
that's not always, that's always connecting
where I am in Folkestone Harbour.
I think the thing that has come up the most is
when it gets, when you get to the nub of it,
the thing that people across the country,
it's delegated powers,
and they don't really understand how that works.
So they've got, you know,
There's a couple of buildings which have been turned into HMOs.
And because they're a certain size, they come under delegated powers.
And people on that side of town don't understand why
an HMO on the other side of town is going to planning committee
and other people on that side of town get a chance to have their say
and they don't get to have their say and they don't really understand it.
It's about the size of the house.
It's just adding to that.
It's just about how do we educate people better?
Because when I talk to people, they do get it.
But I know it causes frustration for them.
There's a few points there, so I'll go back to our offices.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:22:31
Thank you, Chair, and a few councillors.
Llywelyn Lloyd - 0:22:32
Just a couple of points.
There's a lot to take away, and I'll do that.
I think there's some very solid points.
I think a lot of it comes down to communication and training.
I often think that the planning authority is not
the planning officers.
It's the members of committee, but it's also every other member of the council and their
interface with their constituents.
And that is why, and I'm glad to hear it's landing, but there's more to do, why the training
is put on and we engage with planning forums, because that's our conduits to you and you're
then the conduits to the members of the public.
I won't get into the HMO, I think there is a bit of a difference.
I think sometimes planning's not interesting until it's affecting you and then suddenly
people want to know what's going on and that's probably where the disconnect is.
There's a couple of other interesting points which things are in the move.
Councillor Hill's touched on a news... no, Councillor Butch I think, someone touched
on a newsletter at Dover.
Actually, it's been something in the background for a while, both to do two things, a, to
update people on where the big projects are, or to pull the other ones which we won't talk
about this evening.
but also where we are as a council deploying both sale money and where parish and town
councils are deploying sale money, and really showing the spotlight on the amount of funds
that Development is actually delivering to parish and town councils and what they're
doing with it and where that's being deployed, because actually I think people don't understand
where that money was being deployed.
Touching briefly on the Section 106 point, it's a very valid point.
When I joined here six years ago, I noted that it was potentially slightly opaque.
We listed all the things we were going to secure by Section 106, and then we went away
and we did it.
And I got many questions when I first joined about, well, where's this money in?
What's it doing?
What's for?
And I thought, well, surely it's in the report.
And it wasn't.
For the last couple of years, we included what we now call a table 2, or table 1, a
Reg 1, 2, 2 table in the committee report, which sets out the contributions that will
be sought.
and importantly where they'll be delivered and what they will secure.
As a SIL charging authority, we don't actually get very much in the way of Section 106 these
days.
Most of it is SIL contributions, which sort of obviates the need for Section 106.
But I think that newsletter is both a way of briefing people, and we'll take that away
because this business has been mulling in the background, but also where have we delivered
the upgrades to the road network outside Aldi and Hyde for instance,
and the upgrades to parks and what has SILL money been spent on,
both for the district council at the strategic level,
but also at the parish and town level,
and where they, Hyde for instance I know, has deployed money
on many different projects in and around us, as have many others,
and we keep a running list of all that.
But if you've got any questions going forward about explanations to help,
constituents or you answer questions, please do approach either myself or my team of officers.
I think we often through training encourage the planning committee to come and talk to
us as early as humanly possible because the more we can talk the better. So we'll take
that away and continue the training definitely.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:25:44
Thank you. Councillor Jones.
I think the newsletter sounds amazing and that would be really
Cllr Anita Jones - 0:25:49
positive just to educate
people but also put a positive spin on development.
I think the idea that we can say, well,
the development money went towards these things
in your community would be really good.
But I do think that we need to think
about how we get that newsletter out, because not everybody
uses a computer.
Nobody has a phone.
I think it's a shame that we don't have our council
magazine that goes around the district anymore,
because that was a really useful vehicle to get information out.
but I know it's costly.
That's the downside of that,
so I think we need to think about
how we reach those people who
aren't going to be online.
So I don't know where we go with that,
but I'll leave that with you.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:26:34
As we could make use of some of the
notice balls that there are in different
parts of the community to display things,
could be useful mechanism.
Are there any other comments on on this one?
I'll take Councilor Martin.
He's not spoken yet.
Yeah, thank you chair and to
Cllr Alan Martin - 0:26:48
about repeating everything.
Everyone else has said.
I guess I was curious to listen to
Councilor Thomas and compare that
with Councilor Butcher and I think
that shows us where maybe there.
The area to focus is and I think
you're absolutely right.
It is around communication.
It seems as though we we do all the
right things and we do them really well.
But but maybe people out there
don't don't really know that.
I also agree with your.
Your point that people aren't really
that interested in planning until
it appears next next door.
to them and I think we might do a strategic planning document that might go to public consultation.
People don't, as a resident, people don't typically pay attention to those things because they seem dull
and not directly relevant to them but if you actually talk to them about what's going on within those documents
they normally become really quite passionate. So I guess the open question for all of us to answer is how we
how we break that down a little bit.
There's a difference between doing a public consultation,
because it's in your process and you have to do it,
and genuinely engaging with residents,
and somehow collectively that's the nut I think we need to crack.
We don't have to take everyone on a magic carpet ride
every time we do something,
but something a bit different to what we do already maybe.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:28:10
There were two councillors who indicated they want to come back in.
I'll take you, but can you keep it brief
with other items to cover?
Councillor Butcher?
Thank you, Councillor Hills.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:28:58
Thank you, Chair.
Very good.
Councillor Tony Hills - 0:29:01
It's a problem we have in the Marsh.
I'll give an example.
We have a large solar farm in the offing.
That will go to the government for approval in two years' time.
Secretary of State.
People don't understand the difference between Secretary of State
and folks on high.
But we have five in the offing, I'm told.
One is going to this council.
But it's the intensity...
Having the overview, the bigger picture,
of how an area can be destroyed by being too intensive,
We've got to be aware of that.
I'm not sure how we handle these things,
but when it was coming down the track,
as the government says,
we're going to do this, get on with it,
we've got to explain to people how that actually works.
So just give it some thought about it. Thank you.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:29:54
OK, thanks, colleagues. Did you want to come back at all?
Do I know my values or just take those points away?
OK, all right. I think that's been a really useful discussion,
actually some really good contributions from people, so thank you.
I think we just need to note the report.
So can I have a proposer for that?
Councillor Hills and a seconder?
Councillor Chapman, everyone in agreement?
Okay, thank you.
Thanks colleagues.
Okay, we'll move on to our next item, which is the equality and diversity policy, and
Gavin's going to introduce this for us.

6 Equality and Diversity Policy (2025-29)

Gavin Edwards - 0:30:30
Thank you Chair and good evening members.
The report presents the draft of quality policy to cover the period 2025 -29 that's currently
due for cabinet consideration next month on the 21st May.
The existing policy covered the 2021 -25, so a four year period, and therefore refresh
was required.
The duties with regards to equality and diversity have not changed, and therefore the proposed
changes to the policy are minor.
Obviously the aim of our equality and diversity policy remains the same.
It's to ensure everyone has the right to be treated fairly at work or when using the council
services. The Act requires local authorities to review their equality, diversity policy
every four years. And as I said, the current policy we have ran from 21 to 2025.
More widely, sorry, the summary of the changes to the policy are set out in Section 2 .4 of
the Cover Report in front of you. More widely, the Council has publicly consulted on its
new five -year corporate plan, Our District, Our World, which sets out commitments in relation
to equality of diversity and the summary of that is also set out in section 3 .1 of the
cover report in front of you.
Specific actions to meet these commitments are currently being agreed with with officers
as part of the corporate action plan document that's being developed and obviously some
of these are reflected in the draft quality objectives presented to you to this committee
in appendix two of the report in front of you.
So the committee's asked to consider a feedback how the equality objective set out as part
the policy on pages 10 and 11 of Appendix 2 are implemented and monitored. And in terms
of forward direction of travel, the policy, once it will be considered by Cabinet, it
will be required for approval by full council as part of the policy framework as set out
in the Constitution. I'm happy to take any questions. Thank you very much.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:32:11
Thank you for that whistle -stop tour. Just in terms of the second consideration that's
in front of us in terms of how the objectives are implemented and monitored?
Were there particular thoughts around that that it would be helpful for us to focus on?
Gavin Edwards - 0:32:28
Sorry, thank you, Chair.
Just to give you a summary, at the moment, obviously, we do an annual
Gavin Edwards - 0:32:33
quality and diversity
report.
We do that at the moment, which is presented to Cabinet on an annual basis, so it covers
a wide variety of stuff in terms of demographic data, things around what we do in terms of
supporting our customers.
There's also obviously the objective
from the quality objectives set out in the action plan
for the policy as well in there as well.
We do provide a progress summary year on year
against those as well.
So that's in terms of what we currently do
as monitoring at the moment.
So we obviously thought coincidentally
with reviewing the policy
as it's come to its end of its four year period.
In terms of looking at new objectives,
we thought it would be a wise consideration
to bring it in front of you
to see if you had any thoughts
in terms of monitoring around that.
That's great.
Okay, thank you.
We can consider that as we're discussing.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:33:21
So we need to receive and note the report and consider and feedback on how the equality
objective set out as part of the policy on pages 10 and 11 of Appendix 2 are implemented
and monitored.
I know some colleagues had kind of points on the policy itself, so I'll open it up to
Councillors to come in.
Councillor Cooper Kelly.
Yes, so thank you so much for this.
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:33:49
Obviously I assume that this was written prior to the Supreme Court judgment, the recent
judgment.
So, of course, we're all aware that transgender people are still covered in regards to protected
characteristics of gender reassignment.
But one of the things that we need to consider, and I know there are lots of different organizations
that are making changes because of that, but one of the things that needs to be considered
is that through that judgement there could be cases where trans people experience indirect
discrimination because for example if you are a trans man and have a gender recognition
and certificate and you are told to frequent for example a toilet which is appropriate
for the gender that you were assigned at birth, then you are being discriminated against because
you are having to do something which is against what other people would be expected to do.
And I can assume that there will be women who will be in those toilets wondering why
this man has walked in as well.
So that's one thing I'm wondering how you are going to incorporate that into here.
And then the other point that I wanted to make was about intersectionality.
I don't see any points that you've raised about intersectionality in here.
And for the people who don't understand what intersectionality is,
it's about the fact that you can have multiple identities
that lead to compounded oppression because, for example, like myself, you might be black,
gay, disabled, and you can't deal with a client, for example, in the council based on their
blackness only or based on their sexuality only.
You have to think about all of those additional things.
So I'm wondering how you're covering that.
And one of the things that I have been working on recently is Daha accreditation with some
other councils and I know in regards to, well at least the councils in Kent, you're supposed
to be working through that and one of the things that it does actually talk about is
anti -racism and intersectionality and you have actually included a section on housing
in here as well.
So again, I'm wondering why that hasn't been incorporated
into the policy at this point.
Thank you.
Okay, Councillor Piffer -Kelly,
can you just explain the Daha?
Oh, so Daha is domestic abuse housing alliance, yes.
And as part of the accreditation,
you need to do training on intersectionality and anti -racism.
I don't see this in here.
Thank you.
Okay, thank you.
Gavin Edwards - 0:36:59
Thank you for your comments on that.
And obviously, with regards to the policy,
it is reasonably, as I say, high level
in terms of setting out the general principles,
as I've said there in the Equality Act.
I am obviously aware that, as what you've mentioned,
that obviously, the 16th of April,
there was a new ruling published.
This was obviously published, these papers, on the 10th.
I have looked at, obviously, the statement
from the Equality and Human Rights Commission
from the chairwoman of that body.
And they are obviously looking at the outcome of the appeal
into the account I have the statement here,
and our ongoing work as the regulator of the Equality Act.
And that includes the development of revised code of practice,
which is subject to ministerial approval
and is expected to be labour for parliament before the summer recess.
And they'll be working at pace to incorporate implications
for this judgement in updated codes,
which will support service providers, public bodies,
and associations to understand their duties under the Equality Act
and put them into practice.
In the meantime, the Equality ECHR will continue to exercise
statute of duty to regularly enforce the Equality Act of 2010 and ensure
protection for all protected characteristics, including those of sex,
gender reassignment and sexual orientation, and we remain committed to
promoting equality and tackling discrimination in all forms.
So that is embodied. If there is any changes to that, I mean,
we are...and I've looked at the website today, they have made a thing on their
website to say they are reviewing their guidance and we will adjust guidance
in line with whatever the legislation says and whenever those changes will remain.
So that's the position of what's been said on there.
In terms of the other point you made on,
is intersectional, forgive me, intersectionality,
I will obviously have to have a bit more of a look into that
because obviously we've laid it out
in terms of the high level principles,
in terms of the public sector record issues
which we've set out in the policy
and the non -protective characteristics,
which is basically what the base of the Equality Act
is based around.
So I would have to probably have a bit more
look into that because it's the first time
initially I've had that understanding of that.
So thank you for that.
And with regards to obviously Daja as well,
we are fully recognized of that.
We do obviously get updates and things
through the corporate governance board,
which is internal, which is made up of the council's
chief officers and a member of the corporate leadership
team, so there are quarterly updates that do,
have started to come forward on Daja now as well.
So if there is something around the point you made,
we can have a look into, see if we can reflect anything in terms of the section you raised
there as well.
So yes, it's actually a crucial part of getting accreditation to actually do training on intersectionality
and anti -racism.
So I'm really surprised that you've never heard of the term intersectionality.
And that leads me to another point about training.
You know, what sort of training, what's the frequency of training that you give to council
officers, especially because of the fact that intersectionality is something that you haven't
Cllr Abena Akuffo-Kelly - 0:40:00
heard of, because it's not something which is apart from what you're doing, it's something
which is actually an integral part of it, because as I was saying before, you can have
multiple protective characteristics.
And so intersectionality is about being more nuanced
with the way that you handle that.
Gavin Edwards - 0:40:22
Okay, as at the moment, we obviously do,
all staff do mandatory equality and diversity training.
That's all done through our organizational development team
as such at the moment.
That's what we do around that,
and that's undertaken at regular times.
Staff are required to do it at regular times
throughout the year.
They're prompted to do that.
So that's initially what we do at the moment in terms of the training around that.
Okay, perhaps that can be taken away to consider. Thank you.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:40:51
Any other councillors want to come in on this?
Councillor Thomas.
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, thank you for the report.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:40:58
The one thing I wanted to raise specifically,
well, it's around customer access strategy in Part 8.
It talks in there about having a customer access strategy, which we incidentally noted earlier on,
doesn't actually make the OSC program next year, or throw the line.
The existing strategy, which has been in place for a couple of years now, has a table in it which says
why we would want to, from a resourcing point of view, move people to more online interface.
interface, it's a more efficient way of doing it, it's a cheaper way of doing it.
What it fails to recognise is the fact that we have on Romulos 100 square kilometres,
and there are people there that suffer from, or have to live with rule and social isolation,
including digital isolation.
The reason that many of those people can't do that interfacing
is because they don't have access to those services.
I think the existing report, the Customer Access Strategy,
recognises that there are still between 5 and 10 % of people
who don't have access to online services.
So my question would be, in the Customer Access Strategy,
are we going to be looking at that specifically to say,
how do we address that? Previously we used to have a Foch & Heyer district council officer
who used to come down half a day to do Romney for example, he used to come down to stuff
like Heyer as well. They would actually sit in the office and people would interact with
them. After that we had a little device which was in our meeting room in Romney, I think
other places have those as well, and they've gone now.
So, just in terms of making it easy for people
to get to a central place where they can interact,
I think that when we look at that customer access strategy,
we need to look at the things that we used to do
and the things that people used to use,
which are now not available to us,
and whether we could look at putting those back in place again.
We had a presentation just a couple of weeks ago
from the Citizens' Advice Bureau,
who were going through the same kind of thing.
We now have a tablet, and I think a number of other councils have tablets,
to interface directly with citizens' advice through that route.
The technology is there, the ability to do it is obviously there.
Again, I just think that when we do put that strategy together,
we need to make sure that we do address this rural and social isolation.
Thank you, Chair.
Thanks, Councillor Thomas.
Councillor Hills was indicating.
Cllr Laura Davison - 0:43:48
Thank you, Chair.
Councillor Tony Hills - 0:43:52
It's only a tiny point.
On page 35, 4 .5,
climate change, close to my heart,
climate change disproportionately affects
vulnerable communities, minorities and lower income groups,
which it does, but nowhere there
does it say about adapting to climate change.
And adapting to me is the important bit.
areas of the district high at risk and at threats in the longer term.
Just to be aware of that,
I reckon we're adapting to climate change rather than just being...
I don't know what it says here, I think, resilient. Whatever.
That's it. Thank you.
Okay, thank you.
Councillor Butcher?
Just to build on what Councillor Thomas was saying,
we've got a very clear statement in here
under the definition of equality, providing everyone with equal and fair access to council
services no matter where they live and whatever their background.
I guess it's whether to what extent we're testing that out, whether that's actually
what happens and if it isn't happening, what's our action playing through for getting there.
Because that feels like a great intention to have.
I think if we checked around the district whether that's actually happening, we might
get a rather alarming answer.
So, it's a bit heavy to fill out.
Shall I pass back to officers if you want to respond to any of those points?
I think just a general point,
at the moment we are developing an updated customer access strategy.
So, good points that I'll feed in there.
Although, digital by default is the direction we've taken.
Under no circumstances is anybody excluded from council services
because they can't get online, there's always a way of doing it.
But I take the point about how that manifests itself
and how that actually happens.
And certainly at the moment, with the new customer access strategy,
we're out to engagement
through a number of different routes, including some focus groups.
So I will feed back into the team that I'm taking that work
just to pick up the point you raised this evening, which is very helpful.
Hopefully when you see the customer access strategy coming forward again,
you can see perhaps more clearly how we do support all residents,
including those who are not online or are educated digitally.
I would say as well, every strategy we do will go through the Qualities Impact Assessment process.
It's quite a stringent process we'll go through.
So, I think, you know, very good points.
Thank you for that in terms of the custom access strategy,
which I'll happily take back on board
and we'll feed back into the course.
Okay, thanks. Councillor Jones.
Yeah, I mean, just following up on that,
I had an interesting one just after Christmas
with Elvie, the resident, not online.
Wanted to know about her bins and when they would be put out,
so she phoned up.
Somebody sent her a thing, it was from last year,
but also with a letter saying,
and you can go onto my account.
So that wasn't helpful because she wouldn't go onto my account
but she wasn't online.
So they not only sent her the last year's BIN wrote her
but obviously told her she should go online.
And again, it's kind of not thinking outside the box.
We need to think more carefully about our communications.
There's still a number of people who don't want to be online
and they shouldn't have to be.
So how are we going to reach them?
Again, I'm going to come back to the thing that I used to like it,
where we had a council magazine.
That was a good way.
It wasn't a publication that went out very often,
but at least it got to everybody in our district.
I would strongly recommend that we would do something like that again.
I think that's a really good form of communication
and people like to receive that.
I know it's been cut from the budget, unfortunately.
Thanks, Councillor Jones.
Any other comments on this one?
Just Councillor Chapman.
Sorry, just really quickly,
just in terms of monitoring it going forward,
I was just wondering if it's something
that we could involve the youth forum in,
because I think that it would be really interesting
to get their feedback on this in particular.
I think they might have a take,
they might have a sharper take on this perhaps,
or a different take, and I think it'd be really interesting
to get their input.
I appreciate there's resources and it's an extra thing I'm asking people to do,
but if there's some way of doing it, I think that would be really useful.
Great. Thank you for that suggestion.
Hopefully that addresses some of your points around that.
You were saying that there's currently an annual report to the Cabinet
and then an action plan with a kind of progress update,
which goes back to where? The progress update at the moment?
Sorry thanks Jay. At the moment it goes back as part of the wider report to cabinet. So
you'll have the overall report published on our website at the moment. I'm happy to share
a link with the committee afterwards on that as well so you can take a look at it. It was
for obviously the previous financial year which was 23 -24 and then we're in the process
of obviously going to have to start that work. Obviously now the current financial year's
ended and we will look at that as well. I'll have to put that together. But yeah it goes
as part of the over annual quality report.
So you're thinking about whether there could be things over and above that that could be
done in terms of monitoring?
I mean, through other committees potentially, could there be reports back to audit and governance
or I don't know what your sort of thoughts are, but...
Thank you, Chair, again.
So yeah, we've obviously part of it as well.
We said obviously in the report as well part of it will be linked into some of the stuff
as well with the corporate action plan that's obviously being worked up and developed and
be obviously progress updates obviously through appropriate committees when that is then finally
adopted.
So there'll be that cover off there as well and obviously as part of the annual quality
and diversity report as well.
But if there was, again, yeah, if there was any sort of any thoughts on where it might
need to go, then in terms of committee -wise, that would be beneficial as well.
So yeah, that's the two areas where we would probably look to cover it off as well.
Okay, well I'll just ask colleagues if they have any other suggestions in that regard.
Otherwise, we might bow to your thinking around that and the suggestions that have been made
in the course of the discussion.
Okay, all right, well can we receive and note the report collectively and we've obviously
considered and fed back in relation to point two, so can I have a proposer on that?
Councillor Martin, thank you in a second.
Councillor Thomas, is that agreed, colleagues?
OK, thank you very much.
OK, we're moving on to item 7.

7 New Anti-Social Behaviour Public Spaces Protection Order

The new anti social behavior public
spaces protection order item Scott.
Thank you chair.
So tonight we bring you the proposed.
And social behavior currently is
not proper space protection order.
In line with the current one that's
due to expire on the 20th of June,
We are due to go to cabinet post
consultation on the 11th of June.
For the new one,
potentially to commence if everything goes
smoothly on the 22nd of June this year.
So once you bring this to opening
scrutiny to get your opinions during
the consultation period, thank you.
Thank you for doing that and giving
the committee the opportunity to think
about it and give any comments and
So I'll open up to councillors who've had the chance to have a look at this and think about any comments that we might want to make.
Councillor Chapman, I think you were marginally first and then Councillor Thomas.
I just wondered, and forgive me if I've missed it, if there's any data to show the impact of the previous order and, you know,
what the issues that we were trying to target beforehand
and what impact it had on them.
And if there were, what kind of feedback, if any,
that we've had from the public about it?
I'll take Councillor Thomas and then I'll come back
if that's okay.
Thank you, Chair.
Again, as we know, it's not hugely different
in the previous version.
And again, Professor Chetman makes an excellent point
that he's saying, so what we've actually achieved
and is what I'm gonna do going forward,
go through the key points,
really step on the key points is great.
We did have a question in four counts of trouble
weeks ago from residents, specifically about
the park with a leaf of RV surrounding the natural area.
I think if you mentioned that meeting,
that we gave in the maintaining that we would look at
how that was being managed,
the signage I think was already in the site
to get to the ones from the main road.
But that just opens a wider question really
with regard to one aspect of this,
which is about the middle of life hierarchy.
and there are within the map of Sydney -John -Bacchia very well defined areas where the individual
aspects of a PSO and PSBO apply.
But it's not obvious to residents that those aspects of a PSBO apply in those areas and
so in the hospital assignment it is important.
So again, we do have some, again, just take that for example,
in cultural area, in the Romley where,
there's one particular area which is often
frequently, by far these multiple one mic,
or for multiple mics as well.
But we have flight designs where, say,
you know, don't park it there, this is what you should do.
But there's nothing that happens in my parking,
even though it is restricted in there.
So I just wonder about, are we being in time consistent
in the application and what people should expect to see.
That's my first point.
And secondly, just the feedback that we do get from residents
when they are aware of the specific requirements
and social behavior that's covered by the FBI,
because there is signage that people are looking for,
if that's what makes sense, is about the reporting
and then the enforcement.
And so that can factor into Councillor Chapman's question
about how do we know about the reporting
and the importance of successful fiscal programmes.
Thank you very much.
Thanks, Councillor Thomas.
Andrew?
OK, a few questions there to answer.
In terms of, I'll deal with Councillor Chapman's question first,
if that's all right.
The report has some of the commentary
and it explains the historic background
and why we took it on originally,
how the succession of the SBOs.
What we find is we get feedback at different times.
It's interesting, we rarely get feedback back during this consultation period,
but we get it leading up to it because people always see interest.
And yes, the parking of campervans is very much a hot topic.
Although two years ago we probably didn't get anything related to that.
it seems to be a growing, growing issue.
Likewise, there's a very good example
about substances, drugs and stuff, legal highs.
That comes and goes depending on the trend.
So we'll get to a situation where one year we'll
be all concerned about laughing gas and stuff
like that, nitric sulfoxide.
And then there might be a national law
that sort of outlaws it.
and then we go on to the next thing.
So what we're trying to capture in the commentary
is the very fluid state of what concerns the public
and how we bring it all together every three years
into this one order.
Often what we find is you do get that issue of,
is the absence, because you've got the order in place,
evidence of it working, therefore you take it away.
And that's always a problem.
and I can't give you a sort of very clear answer
about whether or not, if we took these things away,
whether or not the problem would return.
And sometimes I do look at some of the audit
as some of the issues that we've covered and wonder,
are we banning things that aren't
interesting to the public anymore?
But we have tried to keep consistent on it.
and I think consistency is really important because it's about public communication,
which I think moves on to the point which I will note from Councillor Thomas,
is that you're talking about signage and the entire engine needs to be obviously covered,
covers whatever's been banned in the area.
I think we've got a lot of signage up.
Certainly something we have to look at for the next order,
so that the next order covers if we're banning camper vans,
It says that much as it says we're banging people drinking.
That's a very, very good point.
Something to take from that.
I think that was another point.
It's just about the reporting.
So, you know, how can we use this?
I think the easy area is to get a bit of feedback on what has been said as well.
So again, it touches on what you just said about how effective
onologies would be, as dealing with the anti -semitic
behavior that we're trying to drive out.
Well, once again, we have the effectiveness
by the absence of it, which is important,
and also by the effectiveness of the quick turnaround
of enforcement should occur.
In terms of monitoring, there are two sort of areas,
two ways.
We have the bare stats of FPNs issued,
which obviously goes to the Finance and Scrutin Committee.
And then obviously every year, you
sit over the screening as the Crime and Disorder
panel, at which time we review the CSP,
we review the order, we review the whole sort of show.
Because I think it's important that this
is seen in the context of a combined effort on ASB
behavior, not just in isolation.
But that really is actually probably the critical point
when this and the plan and the other efforts of the team make are being reviewed by this committee.
Thanks Andrew. I think it's really useful in the report the way that it's been laid out,
giving that kind of commentary on each of the measures and making sensitive points in relation to that.
I think that's really helpful. Councillor Martin.
Thank you Chair. I had similar questions to the other councillors,
but some of the ones I haven't been touched on.
I'd be interested in getting a bit more information
around the process for choosing locations
and this time around whether any new locations are coming in,
were some considered, were any turned down,
and if so, for what reason,
just the decision making around that.
I'm also curious to better understand
and the reason why only certain activities are banned in some locations and not others.
So I appreciate you're going to gravitate towards the problem that you're trying to resolve,
but it seems okay for me to sing antisocially in LID but not in Folkestone,
so I'm curious to better understand that.
So don't advertise that.
Scott.
Thank you, thank you, chair.
Thank you for question,
counselor. The reason for the restrictions
in some areas and others is it has to
be data led so we do have the data
to back up justification for these.
If there we haven't had any complaints
and we haven't got any showings on our
system or complete system to say is an
issue apparently there's nobody singing
and to see that antisocial in lead that's
being reported to us or the place.
It makes it very difficult for us
to justify enforcing against it.
And the first part of the question I missed, sorry.
So are there any new locations, has anything changed and then a bit around the process
for picking the locations?
New locations added into this public space protection order that have been extended from
the previous one are the restrictions around Hyde, namely Hyde South, so south of the canal,
due to predominantly the antisocial overnight camping,
so the RVs, the caravans, motorhomes,
combination of vehicles,
but also we've extended restrictions
that are often linked to that activity.
So spitting, urination, defecation,
alcohol, drugs, alcohol and drugs separately.
So the restrictions that were already in hide
have been extended to include the areas now.
We've extended the whole area where the additional complaints were made
about the overnight camping.
We had other areas we have considered that weren't covered through some
of the conversations with police leading up to the implementation of this
new public space protection order.
However, there wasn't enough justification to start enforcing more restrictions in more
areas that would then go unenforceable.
So we don't want to try and enforce everything everywhere and then not be able to manage
it as well.
Thank you, that's very clear.
Any other points or comments from councillors?
Nope.
Okay.
So we have provided some comments and feedback.
Hopefully that's been helpful.
I think you point out that the
consultation remains open,
so if counselors want to put other
feedback in or obviously encourage
members of the community to do that,
then you still can.
And other than that we need to
receive a note the report alongside
providing that commentary and feedback.
So can I have a proposal for that?
Council Cooper Kelly.
Thank you in a seconder.
Councilor Martin is that agreed colleagues.
OK, thank you, thanks.

8 Overview and Scrutiny Committee Work Programme 2025/26

So we are moving on to item 8,
which is the overview and scrutiny
committee work program,
which is laid out in the packs.
I'm not sure whether we're having
an introducer for this or it's me.
I think it's me, so I think it's
fairly self explanatory.
This has come about through
process of inviting officers, members of the public, members of the committee to submit
topics that they would like to see considered as part of the scrutiny work program for the
forthcoming year.
There was then a process by which the suggestions have been scored on a set of four criteria
and you'll see in the papers what the scores are for each of those items and they've been
ranked accordingly, so there are nine items that have come top of that process that will
form the basis for the programme for next year, with three items that are in reserve,
along with the standing items that we would consider, or the new committee that comes
into effect in the new council year would consider in the normal course of things.
So it's before us.
comments that we'd like to make in relation to it, I'll open up to Councillors to do that.
Councillor Hills.
.
Councillor and Commissioner Kenny.
Cllr Laura Davison - 1:05:36
Councillor Tony Hills - 1:05:37
Yes, I completely agree with that as well.
So obviously high financial value is an important point to make but we do need to consider that
there are going to be things which are not of high financial value but they have cultural
wealth or they're good for the environment or they're good for mental health and so therefore
they do actually have some sort of value, it's not material value, but for our residents
they're of high value. So we were talking about the play parks. Unfortunately because
of the way that the criteria was presented to us, it was difficult to score those quite
highly, but they are actually very, very important to a lot of people. And parking permits, again,
They are maybe not technically of high value, but with the number of emails that we receive
on a daily basis, they are of high value in regards to the time that residents expend
on them.
So perhaps there are other criteria that may be added in regards to community interest
or cultural value or those sorts of things that we could add in,
which will then allow us to be able to score things
in a way that we can include things which are important to residents,
things which are important to health and wellbeing and so on,
or the environment.
How's the chat, then?
Yeah, this is a point that was a kind of hot topic
at the pre -meeting that we had.
And just to reiterate what the previous councillors have said,
I mean, I think we were all, well,
there was a strong feeling I think that, in particular,
the Playpart resources really should have made it
onto that top list.
But because of the way that the scoring was done, it's not,
it was difficult to say it was of high financial value,
so it scored badly on that and therefore didn't make it
into that top list.
and I struggled with that when I was marking,
something I noted in particular.
So I think we really, I think there's work to be done on,
I think I can see exactly why the scoring is out this way,
but I think there's work to be done on making sure
that we're reflecting what's really of importance
to the people that we represent.
Thank you, Councillor Martin and Councillor Butcher.
Thank you chair. I have to say I'm sympathetic with everyone's views around the scoring.
I raged against the machine last year.
However, my general sense, having seen the results last year and again this year,
is it's difficult to argue with the prioritisation it comes up with.
I think if you look at, with any scoring mechanism,
if you look at individual outcomes, you can feel aggrieved about one of them.
And yes, the four different columns do relate to very different and distinct things,
but I think collectively it gives us a pretty good directional view in my mind of the prioritisation.
And of course play parts are important, they're only slightly missing out here from other topics,
and I think the bigger question is whether any of those nine are not important.
And that's maybe a conversation we could have.
More generally, I had a specific question around Otterpool.
Obviously, that's one of our standing items.
Last year, we also had a task and finish committee
for Otterpool.
And I'm curious to know whether that's going to continue.
I think its brief was specific to the negotiating the Homes
England deal or whatever it was we're calling it.
but the, so I assume that the moment's passed,
but I actually think it'd be good if we had
some real scrutiny around Ossipool Park going forward.
Thanks, Councillor Thomas was indicating.
Thank you, Chair.
Well, I wasn't involved in the scoring mechanism,
because I'm substituting for that.
But when you have a look at it,
as has been said by other councillors,
you can't argue with what's on there.
I just wondered whether an OSC,
one of the things we need to consider for teachers
is should we have a wild card?
Should we have some of the people where we collectively say,
well actually, this really should be here.
And whether that's something that we say,
look, there is, it might be difficult
to get everyone to agree to that,
but I'm thinking that might be one way
to address the concerns around the world
and can't we feel like,
it's really, it should be there, you know,
providally recognized the additional work rate
that that's gonna impose on the committee of future.
OK, thank you.
I mean, I think there does remain flexibility in the program in terms of items that might
come up during the course of the year, for example, or things that might get referred
from full council through being opposition business.
So it's not set in stone.
But there seem to be mixed views in terms of from the committee around perhaps the criteria
and where that gets us to in terms of the scoring mechanism.
I mean it's within our gift I think to add additional recommendations should we wish to,
to this list of recommendations in front of us.
So if any council wants to make a recommendation we can obviously consider that.
But I'll just, Ewan did you want to kind of come in at all on these things?
Well thank you Chair. A couple of points I think and thank you for the feedback.
It's very good to get that from your members in terms of the scoring mechanism.
I think there's a little bit of we are here, we are at the moment
with the programme having gone out there,
I think as you're reflecting,
we're very happy to take away the matter of scoring
and the criteria in the waiting for future consideration
when we come to that point next year.
I think you're right as well, Chair,
there's a bit of flexibility in the programme here.
And I can't commit to anything,
but taking your points around some of the reserve items
and how you feel these should be prioritised,
I'll do my very best to have a look at how we might be able
to work that into the programme throughout the year,
because things do change, such as.
And I'd say, Councillor Martin, the point about Otterpool,
Otterpool will absolutely back before this committee
in terms of scrutiny at the point in time
we have something to bring back to you
as a result of the collaboration work
and the next decision that the council has to make
in the direction and delivery of Otterpool.
Thank you.
Councillor Butcher.
Yeah, it was just really a point about what happens next
with these and I suppose it's a reflection on the planning topic
and whether...
just the process of how officers respond to what's down here.
So my sense with the planning one, which is what I put forward last year,
was it sort of addressed what I had in mind
when I advocated this topic but not completely
and it didn't seem that there was a process for testing out
how come somebody's put forward.
So for example, I put forward a bit about equitability of council resource across the
district this time last year.
I don't know when that's going to eventually come.
But I certainly appreciate somebody before they embark on answering the question, just
testing out what the question was in the first place.
And I suppose then the second thing is, and maybe this will be a question for the kind
of new committee, but whether we feel when we spend 20 minutes looking at something,
Does that do the job we're expecting it to do,
that members of the public might expect?
Do we feel the topic has been scrutinized and tested out?
And a lot of the time the answer I get is,
well, I'll take that away and have a look at it,
but then what?
And do we get a sense,
we ever hear back about the things that were taken away?
And my sense is, yes, sometimes we do,
and sometimes there's an email saying there are some answers to questions.
But a topic like the planning one we looked at
that is of such high public concern,
it sometimes feels to me that we kind of tick it off
to say, well, that's been too early in scrutiny,
but has it really been scrutinized
and have we really got the kind of fundamental answers
that people would like?
So I think it's just a question about,
what happens to topics and how they responded to it
and what's the follow up?
I mean, maybe I can start off on that
and then if you want to come in, Euan.
I mean, I think what, so what happened last year
of members recollect is once we'd got the program, there was then an opportunity for
councillors on the committee to kind of feed in what they would want from the consideration
of that topic.
So we had a kind of shared document where councillors could put in from their perspective
what they would want to get out of each scrutiny session.
And I think that was a good exercise, so I'd encourage everybody to do that again when
we get to that.
I think what you're saying then is,
because some of them it can be a year later,
that actually there would be value in a conversation
kind of revisiting those comments before
then it came in front of the committee as a paper,
and whether that was through the chair or the vice chair
or particular members who had an interest in that topic,
I think it's a good, you know, valuable suggestion
that we do that.
What was the second part of your question remind me?
Oh yeah, on the items, yeah.
So I mean, I would say thank you to committee services for their work in relation to following
up where we've had sessions, for example, the bathing water quality session that we
had.
I know there was a lot of persistence that went into following up the questions that
we had from that, and there have been things that have been circulated to the committee
in that regard.
I think, you know, probably we can always get better at that.
I think it's been useful that we've had more structured
pre -meetings as a chair and a vice chair
through the last year, two years,
with our policing committee services
in terms of following some of those things up.
But probably we can always improve
in terms of how that then gets fed back to the committee
and members of the public who want to follow the progress
of these topics as well.
So maybe that's something that a new committee
can reflect on a bit more as to how
they might want to build on what we've done so far in that respect.
Did you want to add anything, Ewan?
No?
Okay.
Well, I've taken the liberty of drafting a kind of point four recommendation that tries
and captures what people have said and what Ewan has helpfully said, which is just to
review the scoring and weighting of criteria over the coming year.
Is that something that people would be in agreement with?
Doesn't say we necessarily have to change them, but gives the opportunity to kind of
consider it.
Yep, I'm seeing nods.
Okay, and all right. Well, if there aren't any other comments in relation to this report, then we've got those four
recommendations in front of us receiving and noting the report adopting the program noting paragraph 1 .4
which is about the flexibility of the program and
and the new point for to review the scoring and weighting of criteria over the coming year and so can I have a proposal for
Those Councillor Chapman and seconder Councillor Putho Kelly. Is that all agreed?

9 Overview and Scrutiny Committee Annual Report 2024/25

I think that brings us to our last item on the agenda for this evening, which is our
annual report, which must mean that we've got to the end of the cycle of our committee
meetings.
So congratulations, everybody, for making it this far.
I think the report probably speaks for itself in terms of the coverage of the different
topics that we've reviewed over our time together.
I think I just want to say thank you to the committee for all the work that you've put
in, whether you've been a member of the committee all the way through or whether you've joined
more recently or indeed whether you're just a sub for this evening.
We've appreciated everybody's input through the course of this process.
And of course to all the officers and guests who've come and contributed to the committee
throughout the year.
And we've, you know, we've had a lot of time that's been put in by officers in that respect
and particularly to our colleagues in committee services who've supported the committee all
through the work that we've done.
So I will just open the floor in case any councillors want to comment on the annual
report before we conclude the meeting.
Councillor Butcher.
Just to say thank you to you and John for the way that you manage the meetings and all
the things that go on before we have meetings.
So just to thank you for that and acknowledge all that you do.
Thank you very much Councillor Butcher.
Most kind.
Okay, Councillor Hills.
Councillor Tony Hills - 1:18:55
I think it's referred to in terms of some of the.
In some of the individual items,
but whether actually it's listed in in full,
I'm just having a look.
I'm not sure that it is.
It is Council wings pointing out
that it's on the website in terms
of who is on the committee.
I think is that the suggestion
you're making Council Hills to add
into the report?
It was not too pedantic, yes.
It is the suggestion that Councillor Hills is making.
I guess through yourself, I'm very happy to meet that amendment as he's like.
Thank you very much.
That would be great.
Councillor Jones.
Just a very small suggestion.
I'm sure I've made it before.
It would be nice to have a picture of somewhere else in the district,
not just Folkestone on the front and the back page.
Thank you.
Thank you, I'm sure that we taken in the
round of reports that are produced.
OK, any other?
Comments now OK, well thank you for
the work in pulling this together and
we just need to receive a note the
report and receive a note the annual
report in love itself so can I have
a proposal for that? So many hands.
I think Council Recouffo Kelly was just
first who would like to second Councillor
Thank you. Is that agreed?
Colleagues OK, thank you and that
closes the meeting for this evening.
Have a good rest of the evening. Thanks.