Licensing Act Sub-Committee - Monday 2 June 2025, 2:00pm - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting

Licensing Act Sub-Committee
Monday, 2nd June 2025 at 2:00pm 

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  1. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  2. Slide 1
  3. Cllr Paul Thomas
  4. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  5. Cllr Polly Blakemore
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  1. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  2. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  3. Microphone A
  4. Cllr Polly Blakemore
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  1. Microphone G
  2. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  3. Cllr Jackie Meade
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  5. Cllr Paul Thomas
  6. Cllr Polly Blakemore
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  8. Cllr Paul Thomas
  9. John Bickel
  10. Microphone G
  11. Cllr Polly Blakemore
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  1. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  2. John Bickel
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  4. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  5. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  6. Microphone A
  7. Cllr Polly Blakemore
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  9. Cllr Polly Blakemore
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  17. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  18. Cllr Jackie Meade
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  20. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  21. Folkestone & Hythe Officer
  22. Cllr Polly Blakemore
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  25. Cllr Paul Thomas
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  29. Cllr Paul Thomas
  30. Microphone G
  31. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  32. Microphone B
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  35. Cllr Polly Blakemore
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  39. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  40. Microphone E
  41. Cllr Paul Thomas
  42. Microphone E
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  44. Microphone D
  45. Microphone G
  46. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  47. Cllr Paul Thomas
  48. Microphone G
  49. Cllr Paul Thomas
  50. Cllr Polly Blakemore
  51. Microphone B
  52. John Bickel
  53. Cllr Polly Blakemore
Slide selection

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:00:01
Good afternoon, we will move to the first item which is the election of chair.
Can I have any nominations please?
Happy to second.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:00:11
Thank you, can I have a show of hands for all in favour?
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:00:13
Thank you, Councillor Blakemore has been elected chair, could you please read the statement in front of you?
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:00:21
Thank you. Good afternoon and welcome to the meeting of the Licensing Act Subcommittee.
This meeting will be webcast live to the internet.
For those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed, you will need to leave the chamber.
For members, officers and others speaking at the meeting, it is important that the microphones are used so viewers on the webcast and others in the room may hear you.

1 Election of Chair for the meeting

Would anyone with a mobile phone please switch it to silent mode as they can be distracting.
I would like to remind members that although we all have strong opinions on matters under consideration,

1 Election of Chair for the meeting

consideration, it is important to treat members, officers and public speakers with respect.
So having said all that, we'll move to the first item on the agenda, which is the application
for review of a premises licence in respect of the Providence Inn, and I believe Alex

3 Declarations of interest

4 Application for a Review of a Premises Licence in respect of: The Providence Inn.

is going to take us through this as an introduction.
Thank you.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:01:13
OK, this is report number DC forward
slash 25 forward slash 09 subjects
an application for review of a
premises license in respect of the
Providence in to consider an application
for review of a premises license under
Part 3 section 51 of the Licensing Act
2003 made by Chief Inspector Mark
Hedges on behalf of Ken police in
respect of the Providence in 4749.
San Gay High Street,
San Gate CT 2038H.
The licensing subcommittee must determine
the outcome for this application.
Reasons for determination.
The committee is asked to consider the
review application for the premises license.
When considering the application,
the committee must ensure they fully
promote the licensing objectives.
The committee is obliged to have
regard to the revised national
section 182 guidance and the Council's own licensing policy.
The licensing subcommittee is asked to, one, note the contents of the reports, two, determine
the application.
The options for determining the application are set out in section five.
The Licensing Act 2003 provides that the sale or supply of alcohol on and off the premises
and other licenceable activities must be authorized by a premises licence.
A premises licence holder must comply with the four licensing objectives.
The prevention of crime and disorder, public safety,
the prevention of public nuisance and the protection of children from harm.
The Providence Inn has held a premises licence since 2005.
Chris Frost applied to vary the DPS on 18 December 2024
and to transfer the premises license
on 27th of February 2025.
Due to his personal license details
needing amending and a delay in
the relevant paperwork,
the license transfer and variation
to the DPS was not completed
until the 10th of March 2025.
A further application to vary the DPS
was completed on the 12th of May 2025.
A minor variation application was sent out for the 10 day consultation period
on the 9th of May 2025.
Please note that unfortunately due to the publicly advertised notice
being displayed incorrectly, the consultation period date has now changed
to the 28th of May 2025 to the 10th of June 2025.
We have provided you with the draft of the new premises license
which will follow the completion
of the new consultation periods.
And these new conditions have
been agreed with the police,
the applicant and the Council.
The current premises license
can be seen at Appendix 1.
Application Kent police have submitted
the request to review the premises license,
which can be seen at Appendix 2.
The review request is in respect
of the licensing objectives,
the prevention of crime and disorder,
and public safety.
The licensing authority must review
the premises license where it is
alleged in an application for review
by a reasonable authority responsible
authority or an interested party
that any of the licensing objectives
are being undermined.
Relevant representations are those
which are relevant to one or more
of the licensing objectives are made
by a responsible authority or an
interested party within the prescribed
periods are made by the holder of
license in response to an application
for review of the said premises.
Have not been withdrawn and if made
by an interested party that they
are not in the opinion of the relevant
licensing authority frivolous or
vapor spacious.
It is recommended that the licensing
committee determine the application
for review and decide what,
if any actions are appropriate for
the promotion of the licensing
objectives in relation to the
The Licensing Committee, in considering an application for review, must have
regards to the adopted Statement of Licensing Policy, Section 182, guidance
issued by the Secretary of State and any relevant representations made by those
directly affected and any other information presented at the hearing.
This hearing had been required by the Licensing Act 2003 because the review
application was made by Kent Police and this can be seen at Appendix 2.
Representation has been received from an interested party.
The licensing subcommittee has the following options.
Take no action against the premises license.
Issue an informal warning letter.
Add conditions to the license.
Exclude a license for activity.
Remove the DPS.
suspend the license for a period of up to three months or G,
revoke the license.
The committee is asked to note that it may not add conditions
or revoke the license merely because it considers it desirable
to do so. The committee must only consider evidence that
relates to the four licensing objectives. Any conditions added
must promote the licensing objectives. Thank you.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:06:50
Thank you and I believe we have representations from Kent police if I could introduce PC Alistair
Microphone A - 0:06:58
Pringle. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. My name is Alistair Pringle. I'm a licensing officer
with Kent police under the Strategic Prevention Command and I'm based at Mackenton police
station. I'd like to take a few minutes to talk about an incident that took place at
the Providence Inn on the evening of March 7th, 2025.
On that evening, Kent Police were conducting an operation which was designed specifically
to target persons, bringing illicit substances into licensed premises and to support premises
in deterring such activity.
Several premises were visited.
The visits were not targeted specifically against any one premises rather than to attend
and venues which catered for persons enjoying the night time economy.
At around 8 .30, Kent police visited the Providence Inn with a drugs dog.
Two plainclothes officers were already inside.
One of them witnessed a female member of staff warning customers that police with sniffer
dogs were on their way and told them to leave if they were carrying drugs.
She repeated this warning to others and even stepped outside to announce it.
When uniformed officers arrived they explained the purpose of their visit.
A customer commented that you won't find anything here, Drew, anything here.
During the search one male was found with suspected cocaine immediately outside the venue
and more drugs were discovered discarded under a bench at the front of the premises.
Sergeant Poochin questioned the female member of staff who admitted that she had been told
by the owner, her boss, the landlord, to warn customers. When questioned on this, Mr Froth
was evasive. Due to concerns about how the premises were being managed, the venue closed
for the night and police began considering a review of the premises license.
On March the 13th, Police and Council licensing officers met with Mr Frost.
They explained that the incident seriously undermined the two key licensing objectives of prevention of crime and disorder and public safety.
Police recommended that Mr Frost step down as the designated premises supervisor and proposed several conditions to help restore confidence.
These included installing standard CCTV and related conditions in respect of retention and placement,
creating a written drugs policy and staff training, hiring licensed security staff on weekends for at least two weeks,
and dismissing the staff member who gave the warning.
A follow -up letter was sent outlining the steps needed to avoid a formal license review
with the deadline of 31st March given.
Mr Frost agreed to make the changes and said his wife would take over as the DPS.
He was told that he must step down by that date if no replacement was found.
When police submitted review paperwork, no official changes had been made to the license.
Mr Frost was still listed at that time as the DPS and there had been no further contact
from the venue. After being notified of the review, the premises explained that they had
faced several difficulties in making the changes but informed Kent Police that they had utilised
each weekend since our meeting.
On the 6th of May,
the variation was submitted to
adopt the proposed conditions.
Unfortunately, the correct process
wasn't followed. Particularly.
In how the changes were advertised,
despite clear guidance from the Council.
As a result,
none of the proposed conditions have
been officially added to the license.
On the 12th of May, Claire Frost,
officially took over as DPS.
Mr Chris Frost remains the director
of the Providence in Sandgate Limited,
who are the premises license holder.
And Claire Frost is listed as the secretary.
Kent police have called for this
review so that the licensing committee
can hear our concerns and consider
the proposed conditions.
We are particularly troubled by
actions of staff on March 7th.
Instructing staff to warn patrons of
police presence directly undermines the
efforts to prevent crime and disorder.
We believe that it's in public's
interest for this matter to be heard.
Not only to consider the issues
faced at this premises,
but to send a firm message to all
licensed premises that such a
concern will be treated seriously.
The failure to follow through on
agreed stepped steps raises concerns
serious questions about how seriously the premises are taking its responsibilities.
Can police stress the importance of licensed venues working proactively with authorities?
There can be no excuse for failing to deter criminal activity,
or worse obstructing police efforts in keeping drugs out of our communities and licensed premises.
The male searched and found in possession of cocaine on that evening
has now been charged and awaits sentencing.
I do have body -worn footage of the challenge that the police made to the member of staff
which shows the conversation should the committee wish to see that.
Thank you.
Thank you PC Pringle, shall we go ahead and see that body -worn footage now please?
I believe this isn't for public viewing so we all need to ask members of the public to
the gallery please.
Sorry, Chair.
Sorry, Chair, can I just have a proposer and seconder to exclude the public?
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:13:09
I propose that we leave the portable footage.

4 Application for a Review of a Premises Licence in respect of: The Providence Inn.

We'll go ahead and hear from the Providence Inn next.
Is that going to be you, Mr. Fost?
Thank you.
Microphone G - 0:13:42
Okay, the delay in the change of license and DBS to myself, this is Claire, was caused
by a number of events.
At the time I was working full time for a charity, this is me speaking on behalf of
We think mental illness. As a peer support worker and employment specialist this post I have resigned from to concentrate on my role as DPS of the Providence Inn.
We were also in the process of renovation of the upstairs of the premises which had not been lived in for over 15 years.
We moved in on the 1st of the 4th this year 25. Our daughter was also taken extremely ill whilst travelling in South East Asia.
which ended up in lengthy hostel stays in Thailand and Vietnam
which was not only very distressing but also very time consuming
To gain my personal licence an appointment was booked through BIIAB Lighting Solutions
I inquired on the 5th of the 4th and was given the first available appointment which was the 13th of the 4th
The DBS checks were completed for the same company on the 15th and the 4th.
These were sent off on the 24th of the 4th.
DBS was issued on the 30th and the 4th which the company then had to wait for a hard copy
to be sent to them, presumed licensing and then onto the licensing department as you
do not accept digital copies.
The certificate was received by Licensing Solutions on the 6th of the 5th, then sent
straight to the Licensing team.
I was put in place as DPS on the 12th of the 5th.
The application to vary the licence as requested was 6th of the 5th.
I have asked for help via email with this but as of yet when we wrote this we had no
reply.
Although I do understand that this was not in the time frame requested and make no excuses
for my tardiness in this, it would be hoped that some of the mitigations and circumstances
will be taken into consideration.
This is our second license premises with no previous licensing issues.
The previous premises we had for nearly 11 years.
We work hard for the community around us to ensure that the anti -social behaviour is stopped
immediately with regular door supervisor staff on weekly, which we currently still do and
will continue.
incident book and staff training, we are in the process of setting up a group with other
local publicans to ensure Sandgate remains an area with no anti -social behaviour.
I have also enquired from licensing how to join the local pub watch.
Thank you Mr Frost.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:16:43
Do either of my fellow councillors have any questions?
Cllr Jackie Meade - 0:16:51
Hello, good afternoon. I just want to get the timeline correct on this. So you were
running another pub at some point. When did you actually become the DPS of the Providence
League?
Microphone G - 0:17:04
Okay, we ran a previous pub in 2005 to April 16. I've currently been in employment full
time since then and then we took over basically in the first week of December
24 of the Providence Inn. We've never really dealt with much paperwork through
licensing before we have found this experience quite difficult to get
correct the previous premises was a bunch of taverns and they all did all
on our paperwork on our part.
Can you go to the new piece of property?
Yes, as of December last year, correct.
And also the person that left the property for us
made it quite difficult to get everything changed over
because they went missing, basically,
because they are not money.
So the landlord, the owner of the building,
has been chasing them for things,
and then it's been hard for us to sort all that out as well.
It makes no excuse for the time scale, but it all happened all at once.
And the label was dismissed straight away.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:18:21
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:18:21
Could I just ask, just in terms of staff training,
what training did your staff receive,
both from understanding their...
requirements under license conditions
and also anything to do with the running
of the establishment as well.
So how you run a purbigate and what you need to do
to meet license conditions, thank you.
Microphone G - 0:18:50
I've got a guide here that they've all read and agreed on.
Obviously we've been waiting to see what happens here
but all staff will be put through
their own personal license as well.
But they all know that it's a serious issue.
Every other member of staff we've got knows that as well.
They all understand how serious it was that happened.
We've also got an incident book which you can have a look at.
Any little incident's been put in there.
There's been three issues so far,
where it's been alcohol, not drugs, and people have been asked to leave.
I've got it with me too, and I've looked at that as well.
Yeah?
Thank you very much for that.
Could I just ask then, when did you put the incident book?
When did you start using that?
Was that from the time that you took the pub over,
or was that since this incident happened?
It was since this happened, to be honest,
because we hadn't had many incidents before that anyway,
because of the morality we know.
I think the problem the evening in question,
we were unbelievably busy,
because it's one of those things where we knew open,
and so people were coming in.
There were a lot of people in there.
I wasn't there that night,
It can be viewed on CCTV.
There were a lot of people in there
that haven't been in before or since.
So it's just...
We've had CCTV.
It's one of the first things we did
when we took the pub over.
It was fitted within three weeks.
So there's eight cameras all available.
I have helped the police look at a couple of cars
driving past because there's cameras outside.
That can be viewed by the police.
It's one in the variation license, I believe,
to make it official.
which has no issue with the OSTI at all.
Thank you very much for that. That's very helpful. Thank you.
You said you previously were out of pub,
so you understood from there what your responsibilities were
in terms of the licensee,
and you had no problems with your previous place at all?
There was still OSTI in Chetway. It was in the Colton pub.
Obviously, it is Chris's word against the former employee, but she's not going to say
that she killed it off her own back as far as we can say.
Chris never told her to say that.
Can I just ask then, was she employed at the pub prior to you taking over?
Was she one of the staff that you took over as part of that?
So you employed her from scratch?
She was a friend to Chris.
Right, okay.
Experienced barmaids and a lady of an age 50 plus.
We re -employed two, or did employ two.
We currently have one well known local,
Zangate people of 50 plus age wise.
We do not try to attract youngsters.
It's very sensible, apart from that night.
Old generation pub, we have a lot of older local
stand out people come in.
We don't particularly have too much live music
apart from just basic.
Sunday afternoons.
Sunday afternoons, we don't do discos,
we don't open after 11, half 11.
We shut guaranteed by midnight.
10 o 'clock at night, we've now put in a policy
of no glasses outside, trying to keep any noise down
for the locals and neighbours.
We talk to the locals in the neighbourhoods all the time.
I just base it there to run a good pub.
There's a question from me. I can see this incident has had its impact
and I can also see from your statement that you've obviously had a lot going on in your personal lives as well.
It does still seem that there was quite a gap for you getting these sort of remedial stuff in action.
I was just looking for an explanation for that.
It was just time running away with us.
And I have to say, I don't think it's on record anywhere
that the other letter was sent through
that was supposed to be sent by post.
We never received that.
Of the email conversations, I think.
We've got email conversations,
but nothing in the hard copy
until we receive the notice of the hearing today.
The bit I'm struggling a little bit
is that from an outsider's point of view,
that it doesn't look like it was being taken as seriously as it should be?
I think it was taken very seriously, but at the time when we moved up,
we didn't have the Wi -Fi, the printer's not been worked.
It was just a little two weeks of chaos,
and unfortunately it was the same weeks that this needed to be done.
But the timescale that I did do it in,
I think it would have been really hard to fit in that little bit of time
that we had to do it anyway.
I do understand how important it is,
but I did take over a lot more of being proactive with everything.
then straight away it was just the paperwork side of it, if that makes sense,
which I know in hindsight is the most important.
Once we moved in the premises from the first to the fourth,
it was a lot easier because we were living on site.
Previous to three months we were living just down the road in Hyde
due to the fact that upstairs was inhabitable
and had been for over ten years.
Yes, I was just asking, it's on the same kind of vein really, which is if you look at the
report from Kent Police and picking up the same kind of thread from Polly, it talks about,
well, Kemperley's proposed in terms of the adoption of CCTV,
the staff training, and a drug policy condition
on the premises license as well.
And it says that they failed to implement them appropriately.
Can I just get your perspective then
on what you believe you have done
and how effective you believe the measures you've taken are?
Because of the things that we've done already.
That's correct.
Basically we have door staff every Friday night.
And the staff do routine suites of the toilets, everything like that.
And I think because a lot of the local people that drink in there anyway,
they know how serious that we are taking it.
So it's the killing and tell that we do have in there.
know that we, it's hard to,
I'm trying to get my words out, get muddled up, really.
But because they know the staff have done
the drug and alcohol policy,
they're all on the ball very quickly now.
We were anyway, it was just,
now it's been more and more enforced.
And especially now as we have the door staff on,
and we've never been open past 12 o 'clock
even though we've got the license to.
Or even firmer with like 10 to 11, right, last orders.
even though we've got licensing for a lot later,
you know, and we're like, as the same,
my husband said, he can speak indoors after 10 o 'clock
to make sure there's no noise outside.
Also promoting the fact that people know
we won't take any nonsense.
I've put up issues that put things on social media before,
warning about any antisocial behaviour won't be tolerated,
you know, and the bar staff, if we aren't there,
which we are 99 % of the time,
the bar staff are very quick to stamp out anything
that they think is antisocial behaviour.
Thank you very much.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 0:26:27
So, the way it's coming across to me at the moment is
relatively new, having taken this over,
with an established client base, if you like,
that you're comfortable with.
on this particular night, people that you didn't know and hadn't seen before.
So just in terms of the history of the Providence then,
has there been any occasion, either from police or from licensing,
to get involved in any way, or environmental health,
or anything of that nature, in the previous three years or so?
John Bickel - 0:27:06
No, we've had very minor incidents, previous owners, one or two things have happened over
the weekend but nothing that caused any real concerns.
So, no, there's no sort of mystery there for anything.
Microphone G - 0:27:21
If I can add, it was before we took over for three or four years, it was more through gastropub
lead.
Right, so I think we've got to the point where we need to pop next door and have a chat,
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:27:36
once ourselves, and consider what we've heard.
So I'd appreciate your patience while we do that.
Thank you.

4 Application for a Review of a Premises Licence in respect of: The Providence Inn.

Thank you for your patience, everyone.
Right.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:27:51
So what we've seen is that on the 7th of March, there was a clear failing to observe the licensing
objectives and then subsequent to that, delays in addressing the gravity of the situation.
However, we do now have a new DPS in place and extensive changes and conditions agreed
with the police and the licensing authority that all have agreed to.
We will be issuing a warning letter which will go on your record to reflect the fact
that the police and the licensing authority have a zero tolerance approach to any kind of drug activity,
but beyond that we will not be taking any further action.
Thank you.
Thank you all. Are we done?
Do you need a closing?
No, OK.
That's the bit I always forget.
I'm happy to propose that action.
Happy to second.
Thank you.

4 Application for a Review of a Premises Licence in respect of: The Providence Inn.

5 Application for a Premises Licence in respect of: The Old Harp Club, Ground Floor, 11 Grace Hill, Folkestone, CT20 1HA

Good afternoon
and welcome everybody to this hearing of the Licensing Act Subcommittee.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:29:23
We're moving on to Agenda Item 5,
which is application for a premises licence
in respect of the Old Harp Club, ground floor 11 Grace Hill.
And if John, the licensing officer, is going to introduce this item for us.
Thank you, Councillor. Good afternoon, everybody.
An application for a premises licence in respect of the Old Harp Club,
John Bickel - 0:29:45
ground floor 11 Grace Hill, Folsom, CT21HA.
This report outlines the application made by Gale One Limited for a premises license
for the old Harp Club.
The licensing subcommittee must determine the outcome for the application.
The committee is asked to consider the application for a premises license.
When considering the application, the committee must ensure they fully promote the licensing
objectives.
The committee is obliged to have regard to the revised National Sexual 182 guidance and
Council's own licensing policy.
The licensing subcommittee is asked to note the contents of the report and determine the
application.
The options for determining the application are set out in section 4.
The licensing Act 2003 provides that the sale or supply of alcohol on and off the premises
and other licensable activities must be authorized by a premises license.
A premises license holder must comply with the four licensing objectives.
The prevention of crime and disorder, public safety, the prevention of public nuisance
and the protection of children from harm.
On the 22nd of April, 2025, Gale 1 Limited submitted a completed application for a new
premises license at the old tar club.
The application is for supply of alcohol on and off sales Sunday to Thursday, 1100 hours
to 2330, Friday and Saturday 1100 hours to 0130. Recorded music Sunday to Thursday 1100
hours to midnight and Friday and Saturday 1100 hours to 0200 hours. Live music Monday
to Sunday 1100 hours to midnight and the opening hours are Sunday to Thursday 1100 hours to
and Friday and Saturday 1100 hours to 0200 hours.
The application is for music to be indoors.
The application for a premises license
can be seen at appendix one.
This address has held a club premises certificate
pre -2005 and a premises license until its closure in 2020.
This hearing has been required by the licensing act 2003
because value representations were received
from members of the public and from two responsible authorities, which can be found at Appendix
2.
And this is Kent Police and the Environmental Health Pollution Team.
We have received 38 valued representation from members of the public.
The representations against can be found at Appendix 3, and the representations in favor
can be found at Appendix 4.
The Licensing Subcommittee has the following options.
Grant the application. Grant the application with amendments.
Add conditions to the license or reject whole or part of the application.
The committee is asked to note that it may not add conditions or amend the license,
merely because it considers it desirable to do so.
The committee must only consider evidence that relates to the four licensing objectives,
and any conditions must be promote the licensing objectives.
Thank you.
Thank you John. We have various parties wishing to make representations, so I'll turn first
to Way, the Environmental Protection Officer for the Council please.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:33:05
Thank you Councillor, can you hear me?
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:33:14
Pre -precipitated venue known as the Harp Restrong and was operating as a music venue. During
this period the Council received several noise complaints, mainly from flats opposite and
Due to the history of complaints and the current objection from nearby residential premises,
invited have concerns that if this premises operates as a music venue in its current condition,
it will have unreasonable impact on nearby residential properties, particularly the ones
directly above and next to the venue.
The applicant has stated if they are given a license, they are willing to install sound
insulation within the building along with other mitigation measures.
However, the sound installation information lacked technical details regarding the level
of sound elation needed to protect the amenities of nearby residential premises.
Environment Health would therefore ask before a licence is granted, an acoustic noise assessment
is carried out by an acoustic consultant with appropriate qualifications.
This assessment should contain a detailed scheme of soundproofing and mitigation required
to enable the premise to operate as a live music venue and to ensure nearby residences
are protected from the noise.
However, with a vestibular coating
above and adjacent,
this may be difficult to achieve.
This report should be submitted
to this license authority for approval.
If the proposed works and mitigation
should be approved,
the work should be completed
to the license satisfactory
prior to any regular
entertainment taking place.
In light of our health, I do not believe
the proposed operating time is up to
200 hours is appropriate given the
proximity of the premises and would
recommend the hours restricted to zero
100 hours of the night and this
concludes our statement. Thank you.
Thank you.
We move on to PC crinkle from Kent
Police please. Thank you Jack.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:35:15
Good afternoon Kent police myself and
Microphone A - 0:35:20
the licensing authority met with those involved in this application at the venue.
The first thing we noticed was the limited entrance and exit space,
which is a single width door into the venue.
It's got no windows and no other exits that I'm aware of at this time.
I'm not sure if there may be one at the back,
But the initial concern from the Police perspective was the need for a policy in relation to the safe
dispersed at the end of the evening that the single door leads out onto a relatively narrow pavement
onto a busy road and concerns in relation to if there's any crime or disorder taking place,
the impact on residents and how that area can be effectively controlled.
We did come to an agreement in respect of some minor changes to some of the conditions
on the application that was in relation to polycarbonate glasses, which wasn't a necessity
and also an increase in door staff provision to two.
Whilst we do not overly object,
we do mirror some of the concerns
that have been raised generally.
Thank you.
Thank you. If we could hear from
the applicant next please.
Yes, good afternoon.
My name is Michael Dodgson.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:36:55
I'm the legal consultant for Gale 1
Microphone G - 0:36:59
Limited and I prepared the application
on behalf of Galelaw Limited and indeed the submission which I emailed to your
committee last week. Can I just check first of all that you have the
submission? Thank you. Can I also check, and I have got some handouts here if you
haven't, I've highlighted the elements of the local plan and the submission draft of
places and policies local plan, which I can hand out to you.
I just basically highlighted them in yellow, might be helpful to you because they are referred
to in the submission.
With me this afternoon are Christian Brown and Dean Saunders -Finch.
Mr Brown is the proposed designated Prime Minister's supervisor and Saunders -Finch is
the office manager basically for the group which is a significant size group having other
in this area and the donor area as well.
In the submission document which we rely upon,
you will note that reference is made to the correspondence
that we've had with the Environmental Protection
Specialist, and in that there was an email from Mr Saunders
Finch which set out in some detail what is the proposal in respect of the sound
installation which we acknowledge needs to be sorted and this is something which
we intend to rely upon as part of our submission today that it will be done to
high standard which will mitigate any problems with the noise which
emanates from the building.
I further rely upon the email correspondence with Ken
Felice which basically accepts entirely the potential obligations
the objections that they had and in appendix three of the submission
document I have marked in red the elements that are taken out and added
which do comply with that particular potential objection.
Overall we rely upon the submission.
I don't intend to read it out in full.
You got it and we have additional documents which I am able to hand out to
you and Mr Brown and Mr Saunders Finch are here to answer any questions which
will show you how experienced they are in the license industry and in
particular with live music as well and they've operated safely and within the
licensing objectives with other premises in the area. So if I can hand down these
to you.
And you'll find two areas which have been highlighted in yellow,
which is which is what we've been talking about in our
submission.
Thank you much.
Other than that, I think it fair to say that Folkestone has a cultural identity
and a cultural identity is generally hard won through the insights, perseverance,
generosity and patience of a community but it can be easily reduced or indeed abandoned.
It speaks to the spirit of a community, nourishes it,
and extends the hands of welcome to other folks from outside.
It will either preserve it, or it will be lost for the entire community.
This is a facility for the entire community of Folkestone,
and to compromise its history and value would, in our respectful submission, be a sad loss.
I come from Hartlepool, which has a very strong cultural identity
of that town that hung the monkey.
Folkestone does not have such a myth.
It has an actual cultural identity with it being a music town.
I arrived yesterday, mid -afternoon, in the middle of the Free Festival,
which I discovered was in full volume right outside my bedroom window.
But it was well organised, well marshalled,
and was entirely satisfactorily calmed
and everything was sorted by the seven or eight o 'clock at night.
In its various guises, the harp has enriched folk since cultural life
and it may be that people in this room have benefited from it
and remember the joy of live music.
And in the immortal words of Joni Mitchell,
you just don't know what you've got till it's gone.
I therefore commend the application and submission
with the supporting evidence to the licensing subcommittee.
Thank you very much. That was very clear and helpful information there.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:43:12
I believe we have some speakers of the public.
So if you'd like to raise your hand, if you'd like to speak.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:43:23
OK, if I could take this lady behind you, John, first of all.
Thank you.
Right, good afternoon.
Microphone B - 0:43:38
I live at Grace Court, which is a assisted residential for elderly people.
I myself am 92 and I don't expect to have to wait up at night before I go to bed.
Because I wait until 11 o 'clock until the Witherspoons are closed
and their people are coming out.
And if they're going to go down the road to another nightclub
and they will come out again at 3 o 'clock in the morning,
my night sleep is going to be very much disturbed.
And as you get older you don't sleep so deeply.
Every little noise does wake you up.
And that's my statement.
Thank you, that's very much appreciated.
Other hands? We'll go round the room if we may.
So are there any others over there with their hands up?
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:44:24
Oh, OK. Right, OK, I'm with you.
Right, we have the lady with the blue cardigan, please.
I live at Grace Court as well on the ground floor and I think it's absolutely ludicrous
Microphone D - 0:44:49
that we should have to put up with Wetherspoons one side of us 170 yards away and the Harp
Club opposite us.
I'm sure that no one else in Folkestone has to put up with that kind of thing with people
who live above and all of us who live here.
And I can't think of any other town that would also have to put up with that kind of thing.
I'm also worried that I'm on the ground floor and that someone's going to come through the gate drunk
and hammer at my windows at... Is it two o 'clock? Did you say two o 'clock?
Two o 'clock in the morning. It's bad enough having to put up with Wetherspoons to about twelve o 'clock
with them all fighting and hollering at each other. And that's what I've got to say. Thank you.
Thank you, Madam. Moving on round.
Hello and good afternoon. My name is Mr Richard Hurst.
I'm a resident at Grace Court.
I live in the middle of the block on the ground floor.
My lounge windows and my bedroom windows directly face the entrance to the proposed club.
My primary concerns are basically that the opening hours
are 2 o 'clock in the morning,
which means that people will be able to accept other local clubs
and come up to the heart club 2 or 3 o 'clock in the morning.
And also another primary concern of mine
is the antisocial behaviour side of things,
Basically, there was no provision on that side of the pavement.
There was no... there's no council bins.
There's no... there's no... nothing like that.
Did the council realise that the bin collections for that side of the road is two skips the
other side of Grace Chapel?
Everybody has to use it.
There's no provision, there's no back doors.
There was no provision for rubbish in that context.
And then the people will be able to cross over to a wider pavement,
Grace Court side of the road,
and talk and carry on, whatever they're doing.
And the rubbish will be thrown, if anything, into Grace Court Gardens,
which is directly facing where I live.
So the front of the garden is where my flat is,
will be a prime target.
Thank you, sir.
Madam.
Good afternoon. My name is Sasha Williams
and I'm the Housing Assistant Manager for Grace Court.
I've worked there for 11 years now.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 0:47:56
Microphone E - 0:48:01
My concerns are, when it was the Harp Club,
we did have antisocial behaviour outside Grace Court, on the walls.
We also had people throwing their rubbish, their empty glasses,
into the gardens,
which myself had to go pick up on daily visits.
We did have a lot of shouting very late at night.
My concerns are that this establishment will be open later
and as some of my residents are concerned,
they obviously know that they need to have,
they put up with Wetherspoons till 11, 12 o 'clock
and on the weekends it may not be till two o 'clock now.
There's also the taxi company in between Wetherspoons
and where these premises may be open.
At the moment, there's about an hour's waiting
late at night because obviously you have
quite a lot of people trying to get a taxi,
so you've got a waiting queue.
And not all the time, but a lot of the time
There's a lot of arguments, you know, because they're just standing around,
you know, waiting for a taxi, intoxicated.
My other concern is that a lot of my residents that have mobility scooters,
they go to the crossing and they go to the other side where the premises is.
Now, it's very difficult if there's going to be people outside there
for them to get passed in their mobility scooters, wheelchairs.
There are some concerns that we are worried about.
As I say, I understand that it's nice to have places like this opening in Folkestone,
but I just don't feel like it's going to be in the best area
where there's a lot of people who live above it.
Then obviously I've got 27 flats and residents across the road.
There's a lot of other issues, you know, parking's bad as it is there.
Yeah, I just think there's a few concerns that need to be looked at
before... if it's granted.
Thank you.
Thank you. Anything on?
Yeah, I'm Pat Garlick.
Also I live on the ground floor.
We put up on Saturday nights with, as I said before, weather spoons.
Also from the party bar that come up at three o 'clock in the morning.
So between them we've got, we're going to have weather spoons, this new place, party bar.
And then what they tend to do is sometimes jump over the wall
and there's a flally way down the side of where I live.
Now I've had before drunk, knock on my bedroom window
and find the life out in the middle of the night.
This is going to be directly opposite me.
And the fact is, because of a childhood happening,
I suffer with claustrophobia.
I cannot sleep when my bedroom window is shut,
which then is going to impact my health
by having to close the windows because of added noise.
I love all the live music, I am a live musician myself.
So I understand about live music.
But not in a residential area. We've got people all our age.
This tolerates, and I mean just recently I lost my husband,
which doesn't make it easy for me to sleep anyway.
So I'm going to have the added worry of the added noise.
And I've had this, I mean, even this weekend we had it coming up around 2 o 'clock in the morning.
Obviously it wasn't, I can't say to you, but it's going to happen.
Because you can control what's inside the bowl.
But how can you control what's outside?
That is my concern.
I've got nothing about soundproof in it, fine.
But when those people, if it's an off sale, they can come outside and drink.
How do you control that sound and the noise then?
That is my concern.
Because that's not going to be possible for you to monitor that.
I can't see how it's possible.
Yes, inside shut the doors, got the music, but if it's off sales and they can come out with their plastic glasses, sit outside, make noise.
You can't stop youngsters having joy in themselves making noise.
I know I was young myself once, but that is what's going to happen, because you cannot patrol that bit.
Thank you madam, I really want to shake your input there.
We can move on to the next speaker please.
My name is Desiree Gillard and I live at Grace Court.
My flat is directly opposite, but I'm on the first floor.
Microphone F - 0:53:10
Enough has been said today that I'm sure you get the message we are worried about the noise
level.
From my point of view, there are 27 of us that live in that building.
Many are not here today because they are incapable of actually walking to come today.
and I worry about the antisocial behaviour on the streets before the late hours.
Many of these people are going to be in the street around about six o 'clock in the evening
and just recently, coming past Wetherspoons at six thirty in the evening,
said goodbye to my family and I walked down the road towards my flat,
Two men and a woman, who were rather obviously very drunk, grabbed hold of me,
pushed me up against a wall and abused me in the street.
I then had to walk home and go into my flat and it was only 6 .30 in the evening.
Now from my point of view, I would like to know that all of us are safe on the street
and I don't think we're going to be. Thank you.
Thank you for sharing that with us.
That must have been difficult for you.
Appreciate that.
If we could move on to the last speaker, please.
I've got a bit more to say.
I'm sorry.
Good afternoon.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak today.
My name is Lena, and I live with my partner, George,
kind of directly opposite, I mean,
directly above the establishment,
but to the side a little bit.
I'm here to formally object to the premises license
application.
Let me begin by saying this.
I'm not opposed to entertainment or light life in principle.
Folkestone is a vibrant, creative, and evolving town,
and I fully support venues that bring positive energy
and safe social spaces to our community.
But placing a light club in the heart of Grace Hill
is, quite simply, the wrong choice.
I want to also acknowledge that the old heart club previously
held a similar license to the one now being proposed.
However, it's important to recognize
that Folkestone has changed dramatically in the five years
since the venue closed its doors.
Our town is a very important city
The town is now inundated with live music venues and events from the Cigar and Olive
to the Quarter House to the Folkson Festival that happened on the loose just this past
weekend.
The demand for late night entertainment is more than met by these existing establishments,
many of which are located in areas more suited for nightlife.
At the same time, we have lost much of our vital community infrastructure.
Spaces that once served all ages and brought neighborhoods together, such as youth centers,
creative hubs, affordable cafes, community halls, have now dwindled or disappeared.
What Folkestone truly needs now are places that foster connection, well -being, inclusivity, and not more late -night venues.
Grace Hill is a quiet, small residential street.
It's a street where families raise children, where elderly residents rely on peace and familiarity, and where working people need rest and security
after a long day. Within recent years, it's also become home to thriving independent businesses.
Introducing a late -night venue into this environment threatens to undermine everything that makes it livable.
I believe that this application directly contradicts the council's licensing objectives, which we all know.
The first one, prevention of crime and disorder.
Antisocial behavior is a well -documented issue around late -night venues.
According to Kent police's own statistics, incidents of public disorder, vandalism, assault, are significantly higher in areas of dense nightlife.
areas around established late night venues, such as the Cigar
and Olive and Party Bar, saw a 40 % increase in anti -social
behavior complaints on the weekends compared to Grace
Hill.
A review of licensing hearings in Folkestone in the past two
years shows that venues within extended hours frequently
attract police attention due to noise complaints, fights, and
public intoxication.
The old harp club's proposed hours would likely bring
similar issues to Grace Hill, a street not designed or resourced
to manage the public.
On the second point, public safety.
Late night venues place additional pressure on emergency services.
In 2024, Kent police reported that response time to incidences
in Fokusan's nightlife zones increased by 18 % during peak hours
as resources were stretched then by alcohol -related incidences.
Grace Hill is already a narrow road with a residential neighbourhood
and is particularly unsuited to handle increased emergency call -outs,
congestion or the risk of disorders spilling out onto the street.
On the third point, which is the prevention of public nuisance, noise pollution is not
just an inconvenience, it's a public health issue.
The World Health Organization states that chronic exposure to nighttime noise can cause
sleep deprivation, stress, and long -term anxiety.
Many Grace Hill homes are older with single glazed windows and poor sound insulation.
The bass of music, crowd noise, and shouting will travel easily, disrupting the peace of
hundreds of residents.
Evidence from similar venues in Folkestone,
such as Scuba and the Quarter House,
show that complaints about noise, litter,
and antisocial behavior spike significantly
when events run past midnight.
In 2023, the Quarter House alone received
over 30 noise complaints in a single month
after extending its hours.
The fourth point is the protection of children from harm.
There are many families that live on Grace Hill,
and I think that children shouldn't fall asleep
or wake up to the sound of shouting
or pounding bass at 2 a .m.,
nor should they have to walk past groups of intoxicated adults on their way to and from school.
This is about protecting the physical and emotional well -being of our youngest members of society.
As a personal thing as a woman, I must speak frankly about safety.
The idea of groups of intoxicated individuals gathering on my street late at night is deeply unsettling.
Many women already navigate public spaces in Folkestone with caution,
and adding a nightclub into a residential neighborhood
increases the risk of harassment or unsafe encounters,
especially for women walking home alone.
We should be working to make our streets safer, not more threatening.
Folkestone already has multiple established venues
for live DJ events and music,
including the Cigar & Olive, Party Bar, the Quarter House,
Scuba, Mermaid Cafe, restaurants and bars such as Space Bar,
Lucky Chip, Cabron, Brewing Brothers, Rock Salt,
regularly host evening events.
These events are located where nightlife belongs,
in areas that are much better suited to manage
the noise, foot traffic, and atmosphere that come with it.
We are not short of clubs.
What we are short of are community -driven spaces
that serve everyone, not just the late night crowd.
Let's be clear.
This proposal threatens to bring public nuisance
into people's homes.
Increased traffic, illegal parking, public urination,
late night shouting and loitering
don't stay inside the venue.
They spill out onto our streets and our doorsteps.
places planned and prepared to handle these challenges,
but Grace Hill is not one of them and for good reason.
Instead of adding to the noise and disruption,
we should be invested in projects that build community
and that make life better for residents of all ages.
In closing, I respectfully urge the council
to consider its own licensing objectives
and reject the application appropriately.
This isn't about resisting change.
It's about choosing progress that protects our community
and uplift the people who live here.
Thank you.
Thank you, madam, and thank you again to all our speakers.
It's been really valuable to have your input.
I'll ask my fellow councillors now if they have any questions.
To the applicant, if I may, why two o 'clock in the morning?
Why do you need to open till two o 'clock in the morning
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:00:52
in the residential area?
Cllr Jackie Meade - 1:00:53
Okay first of all I do apologize I've got some sort of throat virus thing so I don't
normally speak like this.
Microphone G - 1:01:30
To be honest with you, over the last few weeks since the application went in, we have seen
obviously the objections coming in and we have had several discussions regarding this.
I think you'll see via the submission there is talks about us bringing, if obviously the
application is granted, bringing the application hours back more to midnight, which would then
and bring it back into the sort of more of a bar than a nightclub,
because a nightclub was never our intention.
It was about creating a nice music venue that will cover
all different ages and groups of people,
because obviously it would open at eleven o 'clock in the morning.
Again, I want to make it very clear that this was never about having
loud live music seven days a week.
This was something that we would have that license period so we could
If we wanted to have something on a bank holiday Monday,
or we could have something on a Thursday afternoon, as and when,
it's not something that would be 24 -7.
Sorry, could I speak as well?
Thanks, everyone, for talking.
I really feel sorry for you over there. That story was horrible.
And in regards to your complaint about people having drinks outside,
It is stated in here that we wouldn't let anyone have glasses or plastic cups outside ever.
I'm from Folkestone. I live in Folkestone. I love it.
It's not my intention at all to upset any residents or cause any late night crazy club
environment which want to open somewhere that's nice people can go relax and have a good time and
in regards to the environmental health
We have said we will gladly do the report,
so thanks very much.
Just ask a question of our environmental
protection with the prospect of the reduced
hours, how does that affect your
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:03:41
representation in terms of is that
make it more acceptable or?
Sorry, thank you.
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:03:57
It's not complicated. It's about what the acoustic report says about the venue, what it's going to do, what they're going to hold on, how are they going to have, what type of music they're going to have, what type of establishment.
It's not going to be nightclubs, it's not going to be a bar, it's going to be a pub or whatnot.
So it all depends on what acoustic, what levels of music they want to play and what the property is going to be able to substantially say.
you play the level of music, how noisy the property can protect it.
The more insulation you have, the more power the music.
The less insulation you have, the lower music you can bring.
The problem we have is, I understand there's a flat above it
and a flat beside it as well.
It's very difficult to have the level of music for live venues, we say,
to have that sort of, without having an impact because sound does travel.
Even if you lower the volume, there's like low impact noises
which can travel through floors and stuff.
That's why it's important to have specialists like contractors involved
to give us that survey and see what is necessary.
They may even have to build a room in a room,
but I don't know how to stage, so it's difficult.
The problem I then have is that we've been asked
to make a decision before, and obviously we've got
a carton horse, haven't we?
We've been asked to make a decision before
that soundproofing's in, we don't know
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:05:01
that that soundproofing's gonna work.
Exactly right, I mean, they have proposed
a soundproofing that we're going to do the work,
but unfortunately we need to do all the technical specs
Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:05:13
from an expert that will assess it and decide what can be done with this property for what
level of music they want.
We have said we would gladly get an independent specialist in to make us a report and we will
do what they say on their guidelines for sound proofing.
Microphone G - 1:05:29
On the grant of license of course.
Thank you very much. I know it's always difficult for people to come here and speak to us, so
I'd like to say thank you very much for your presentations this afternoon, because we read
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:05:48
things and there were a lot of comments that were made on this, in excess of 30 comments.
But I think for us as a committee, when we hear it first hand, it adds an extra element
and you often say things which you haven't always been able to communicate well in written form,
if that makes sense, so it's quite impactful.
So, just with regard to the proposals for soundproofing,
presumably anything that you do with regard to that,
because you're also talking here as well,
about changing the front door to a double door for the fire exit.
So that's going to change the frontage of the building.
Have you been in touch with planning with regard to any
potential planning implications for what you're proposing?
I think you've misunderstood the double door.
It's not a double door at the front like this.
It's a door and then there'll be like a lobby and then another
Microphone G - 1:06:50
door which is already there but we're going to upgrade them to
fire doors to help with acoustic travel.
Okay, thank you.
I understand that.
So just in regard of that, has that been run past the fire service then to see what their
views are?
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:07:11
Because they haven't made any comment on this particular application.
So have you run that past the fire service to see what their view is once you put a double
door between a lot of people and the street.
I have consulted with Kent Fire & Rescue and they have asked for the full details of the
site including the plans which we have sent and he was more than happy with the existing
Microphone G - 1:07:36
set up that's there and we spoke about upgrading the doors because they are obviously quite
old to keep that noise barrier and they were more than happy to sign it off.
So, Kent Fire and Rescue were happy with a ground floor venue with a single exit onto
the street.
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:07:59
If it would assist the subcommittee, I've been in contact with the fire service.
I have an email from the fire officer
Microphone G - 1:08:18
who was quite happy for the matter to
proceed on the basis proposed.
Following an assessment.
Leave this lady there would
like to have another word.
My concern is they're saying about
the soundproofing in the building.
That's all fair enough while
they're in the building,
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:08:37
but when these people leave the building,
Microphone B - 1:08:39
that's when all the noise starts
and it doesn't finish.
It carries on for a few days.
They're shouting and each one's trying to shout the other one down.
It's that noise that people haven't got any control over.
That was actually, you read my mind, because that was going to be my very next question,
because we've heard a lot about the noise outside the venue.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:09:05
And I know we've read also in the papers about your dispersal policy.
I just wonder if you can talk us through how you will manage this issue
that there's such concern here about.
Can I assist there? Part of the submission that we have made contains information relating
Microphone G - 1:09:24
to the, to having SIA door supervisors and this was part of the discussions with the
licensed dog people on and equally the submission contains an indication that not only will
they be in charge of looking after the people coming in, people going out, stopping queues
forming, they will also in common with the staff at the venue act as noise marshals so
that there is to be a dispersal policy, which is generally required nowadays in
licensed areas, in my experience, and a dispersal policy which will allow the door
supervisors and the noise marshals to move people away from the venue to prevent
anybody being distressed at Grace House.
And that is part of our submission,
which I respectfully ask you to consider.
Thank you very much.
I think this lady would like to have another word.
But you just said that lots of
venues already have this in place,
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:10:57
and there's still problems with it everywhere.
Like Wetherspoons,
I'm sure that those security annoys marshals to an extent,
Microphone F - 1:11:05
but I can attest and all these other people can attest
that that's not actually happening.
Also, I appreciate that you're not gonna have glass outside.
That's very helpful,
but there's going to be a smoking area, undoubtedly,
and that is gonna be loud and disruptive
from the time that the venue opens
to the time that the venue closes.
And it's a narrow, narrow, narrow little pavement.
There's not space for a smoking area.
There's not space for a queue.
There's not space for two security men stood there all day every day.
You can barely get past with a pushchair,
let alone a mobility scooter or whatever else.
It's just an inappropriate place to put a club.
Do we have any more?
One more?
Could I just come back on that?
What we have is, in my submission,
Microphone E - 1:12:00
Microphone G - 1:12:01
an assumption that new operators, new experience operators,
who have other venues which operate perfectly within the licensing objectors,
are being tainted by the historical problems of the previous operators.
It's an assumption which I'm afraid is a logical fallacy
because the fact is we have people here saying this is bound to happen.
It is not bound to happen.
The licensee objectives are going to be satisfied with the protection and
mitigation contained within the submission and I hope that I have set out
legal aspects which the subcommittee are bound to consider and that overall,
subject to as I say in Paragraph 34, the subcommittee is invited to grant the
license subject to the conditions which are consistent with those agreed with
the police at Appendix 3, noise mitigation measures as discussed with the
Council's Environment Protection Specialist, and the concession proposing
ending live music earlier.
I commend that to the subcommittee.
Thank you very much.
Do we have any more?
Yes, could you go ahead?
Yes, I could just come back on what you said if I may.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:13:37
I think one of the things which strikes us here, having read the application, listened
Microphone E - 1:13:43
to the presentations we've had today.
And just picking up on your points on the fact
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:13:48
that you've got experienced operators that
have operated other venues successfully
to license conditions.
One of the things which comes out very strongly here
is the fact that the uniqueness of this event at this location.
And that's what people are challenging here this afternoon.
It's the narrow pavements.
it's the proximity to a very sensitive housing area.
So whilst I accept fully what you're
saying about how these licensing objectives have
been met elsewhere, what we're saying is,
and this is the contention from the people representing here
today, it's how you do that in this very difficult area.
narrow pavements, very close proximity of residents
who live immediately adjacent and directly across the road.
So again, I think it's taking that into consideration.
It's as much about where it is as it is about what it does.
That's the thing that's come across strongly to me today. Thank you.
Please, may I just say one thing?
I think the reason that myself and lots of my residents are concerned is because things
didn't happen before.
Microphone E - 1:15:03
I'm not saying, I understand what you're saying, it may not happen again, but we had to get
CCTV installed at Grace Court because of all the problems we had many years ago.
and people urinating over the kindergarten,
the rubbish, the antisocial behaviour.
These are all concerns that my residents are fearing that may happen again.
So, thank you.
Thank you, that point's noted.
Did you want to have one more word, Mr?
I'd just like to ask one more question
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:15:49
to the people representing the license application.
Microphone D - 1:15:54
What is your intention of SIA provision?
Will it be just certain hours or will it be all opening hours?
The
Microphone G - 1:16:16
provision would be in accordance with the observations made by Kent police and the
hours that have been agreed with them and that there would be at least two on at
particular times to make sure that there's no queuing outside, no antisocial behaviour
and indeed at the end of the evening for them to be noise marshals with the rest of the
staff to ensure that there is no problem which we should be in my respect the submission
sufficient to mitigate the potential problems.
The applicant is very sympathetic to your course.
We understand your position.
But what we're saying is that we are in a position,
we are experienced operators,
we're not critical by any means of your problems with it.
But we believe that there is sufficient mitigation of any potential problems
which will be in place and that any historical problems are just that, historical.
Thanks. My colleague, Councillor Thomas, would like to speak again.
Again, speaking of a point that was raised by one of the residents.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:17:46
So what are the proposals for a smoking or vaping area associated with the venue?
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:17:50
So obviously as you've picked up, there is no back entrance to the bar.
It would be out the front of the building,
Microphone G - 1:18:09
but we would limit the number of people that could be out there at one time.
Again, there would be zero drinks out there,
and it would be limited to maybe five people at a time.
If I may, just in terms of the dispersal policy
and the use of trained door staff to supervise the area,
Cllr Paul Thomas - 1:18:30
they have no jurisdiction.
All they can do is ask people politely.
As the evening goes on and people get more and more intoxicated,
they're less likely to take notice of anything that's said to them.
So again, the dispersal policy and the management of noise in the area immediately outside,
bearing in mind this will be your smoking area, is going to be something which, although
you can ask people nicely, you actually won't have any powers whatsoever to move people
on.
That problem will then become a problem for environmental health, Kent police, folks in
register council licensing, we're the ones that are going to end up having to deal with
that sometime in the future.
So again, I think it's slightly naive in terms of saying the smoking area is there and this
is what you do to manage that.
Because although it might well be something you manage elsewhere, the whole point of this
in terms of this venue at this location is its uniqueness and the issues specifically
about narrow pavements, people not being able to get past and all those kind of things as
well.
So I still have real concerns about that.
Thank you.
I think we're properly done.
After this and then we'll need to review where we are.
But if you'd like to have one last word, Madam.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:19:55
Thank you.
What I would like to know is if this licence is granted and all the rules are broken, can
it be revoked?
Microphone B - 1:20:05
I'll let John answer that question.
Yes, the licence can be bought in for a review following any evidence.
So yes, following complaints, environmental health police and myself would all get involved in that.
John Bickel - 1:20:19
Thank you everyone, that's been a really thorough and really helpful discussion.
We're going to withdraw now and have a conversation about what we've heard.
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:20:28
So I thank you for your patience. Thank you.
Thank you everybody. Thank you for your patience.
I know you've had a...

5 Application for a Premises Licence in respect of: The Old Harp Club, Ground Floor, 11 Grace Hill, Folkestone, CT20 1HA

You've kept hanging around. We had a lot to talk about.
I want to thank everybody for their representations
Cllr Polly Blakemore - 1:20:50
and the officer's report.
This application will be refused
and that is due to the...
We're not convinced that the licensing objectives of the prevention of public nuisance and promoting
public safety have been met.
We will be issuing written reasons for this decision within five working days as per our
normal protocol.
Do we need to propose that?
I'm happy to propose.
All those in favour?
Thank you very much.