Overview and Scrutiny Committee

Overview and Scrutiny Committee
Tuesday, 30th January 2024 at 6:00pm

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Slide 1
Cllr Laura Davison
Mr Jake Hamilton
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr James Butcher
Cllr John Wing

2 Declarations of Interest

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Declarations of Interest

Cllr Laura Davison

3 Minutes

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Minutes , 14/11/2023 Overview and Scrutiny Committee

4 Minutes of the Finance and Performance Sub-Committee

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Minutes , 05/12/2023 Finance and Performance Scrutiny Sub-Committee

Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Laura Davison

5 Change of Membership - Finance and Performance Scrutiny Sub Committee

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Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Laura Davison

6 Cabinet Member updates

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5 Change of Membership - Finance and Performance Scrutiny Sub Committee

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6 Cabinet Member updates

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Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr James Butcher
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Alan Martin
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Laura Davison
Mr Ewan Green
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr James Butcher
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr John Wing
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Jim Martin
Cllr Laura Davison
Mr Matt Rain

7 FABF phase two public engagement feedback

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Cllr Laura Davison
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Anita Jones
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Cllr Anita Jones
Cllr Laura Davison
Mr Matt Rain
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Alan Martin
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Alan Martin
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Connor McConville
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr James Butcher
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Mr Matt Rain
Cllr James Butcher
Cllr Laura Davison
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Mr Matt Rain
Cllr Laura Davison
Mr Matt Rain
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr James Butcher
Cllr Laura Davison
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Mr Matt Rain
Cllr Laura Davison
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
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Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Laura Davison

8 2023 Tenant Satisfaction Survey Action Plan

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Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Alan Martin
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Cllr Laura Davison
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Connor McConville
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Connor McConville
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Connor McConville
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr James Butcher
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr Connor McConville
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Cllr James Butcher
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr James Butcher
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Mr Andy Blaszkowicz
Cllr Laura Davison
Folkestone & Hythe Officer
Cllr Laura Davison
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Disclaimer: This transcript was automatically generated, so it may contain errors. Please view the webcast to confirm whether the content is accurate.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:07

Good evening, everybody and welcome to this meeting of the Overview and Scrutiny Committee. The meeting will be webcast live to the internet. For those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed. You'll need to leave the Chamber for members officers and others speaking at the meeting. It's important that the microphones are used, so viewers on the webcast, and others in the room may hear you would anyone with a mobile phone, please switch it to silent mode as they can be distracting. I'd like to remind members that, although we all have strong opinions on matters under consideration, it's important to treat members, officers and public speakers with respect

1 Apologies for Absence

welcome everybody, I'm sure people are glad that we don't have budget items to discuss this evening, but we do have other things to discuss, so we'll start with, are there any apologies for absence?

Mr Jake Hamilton - 0:00:53

thank you Chair, we have an apology from Councillor Chapman, thank you

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:00:59

very much, and are there any declarations of interest from members of the Committee Councillor Butcher declare an interest as director of opportunities, I'm not sure it's relevant for any agenda items but just appointment.

Cllr James Butcher - 0:01:08

Councillor Wing,

thank you, Chair, and also a director of opportunist.

Cllr John Wing - 0:01:15

thank you.

2 Declarations of Interest

3 Minutes

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:01:20

and we have two sets of minutes and before us this evening we have first of all, the minutes of our last full overview and scrutiny committee meeting on the 14th of November last year, are there any comments on those minutes?

they agreed.

4 Minutes of the Finance and Performance Sub-Committee

thank you, and we also have in front of us the minutes of the Finance and performance Scrutiny Sub-Committee on Tuesday, the 5th of December 2023.

are there any comments on those minutes?

thank you, Councillor McConville, do we have a seconder for the minutes?

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:02:05

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:02:07

thank you, Councillor Butcher, is that agreed, everybody agreed, OK, thank you.

5 Change of Membership - Finance and Performance Scrutiny Sub Committee

I will just sign them.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:02:18

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:02:32

okay, so moving on that we have in front of us our

6 Cabinet Member updates

5 Change of Membership - Finance and Performance Scrutiny Sub Committee

item 5 is a change of membership to the committee, so following the changes to the council's political balance which were reported to Full Council on the 24th of January, Councillor Godfrey is no longer a member of the Overview and Scrutiny Committee the Committee is therefore asked to note that Councillor Martin has now been appointed as his replacement welcome Councillor Martin to the meeting.

is everyone happy just to note that?

6 Cabinet Member updates

yeah, OK, thank you and item 6 cabinet member updates, we're pleased to have Councillor Martin with us here this evening as a leader and cabinet member for Ospel Park and planning policy Councillor Martin, be happy to give us a brief update and then perhaps to take some questions afterwards, thank you.

I thank you very much, Chair and.

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:03:25

I will, I will do a very brief update, but I would I would welcome.

questions across the the brief with regard to Planning, all I can really do is to update the committee in terms of we're very pleased with regard to our timescales that we are responding to planning applications.

there has been a real focus on trying to get people dealt with, who are applying to build a back extension or change their windows or put the dormer roof in and where we're very pleased that the way that this is the

the time the average time that it's taking to to deal with these, in fact, the incidence of as requesting extension of time from the applicant has reduced it still occurs, but it's reduced significantly when compared with a few years ago, so we're very happy about that.

our our enforcement team, where we're pleased to say they're they're active, they're out there, they're, they're quite busy, I I it. It is kind of a it's a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy, and if you don't have an enforcement team then your planning department doesn't have any enforcement action to take, but they're quite busy with enforcement action, which is exactly the way that residents want it. I think they want an active or planning department. There are that are enforcing the legislation.

with regard to article, there has been a great deal happening and I'm very very happy to answer all questions, but I'll give a very, very brief summary of.

where I am in terms of my role, the

the the the principal problem with article, as I was sort of confronted with on Taiwan, was that there was a massive shortfall in terms of the money that was that was available to us.

this had been because homes, England, as as many of you, will recall back in March, I think last year.

I decided not to participate in in the scheme and

this then causes a whole series of problems Members will recall that there was a

and an informal application or a request from article park all LP for a further 80 million pounds in terms of their loan, sorry, our loan to them.

this was this was tenant, why it never got as far as a formal request, so saying it was turned down, but this was not further discussed, their Head of Finance wasn't happy about it.

so we we saw other routes.

the chief executive, anyway.

sort of reignited our conversations with homes, England, and we've been delighted at the response that we have received from owns England, and we've been able to satisfy a lot of their concerns, they suggested to us that we might think about developing the scheme.

with partners, and initially this was.

in terms of joint ventures, or principally with a large housing association called places for people who had already been through the public procurement process that multiple Park all LP held about 18 months ago.

and

we were happy to meet with, in fact we had two meetings with places for people and we thought that that was the way that we were going to go homes, England then came back to us and suggested that we might need to think a little larger in terms of our strategic partner and you recall that a paper was,

consent. You know, we voted on the ability for us to go out and seek a strategic partner, the strategic partner they had in mind was the Crown Estates, and we met with the Crown Estates before Christmas and we had full disclosure and,

we were, you know, hand on heart, very, very, very, very hopeful that they would that they would become our strategic partner, they loved the scheme they own.

75 hectares, I think in on Romney, Marsh, which make them local.

their whole emphasis is on coastal, so we qualified under under a number of headings, but unfortunately.

literally just before Christmas, they gave us their response, which was that the financial model didn't stand up. The return on on the internal rate return wasn't high enough, which means that effectively they would be waiting too long to see a return on their capital investment. Now we knew this, we knew this was the problem with the this has always been a problem with the model, from the way that it was set up. What this has done is it's it's kind of provoked homes, England, now to take more central role, so our discussions with homes, England now are at a much more, shall we say, meaningful stage

and we're very, very, very hopeful, I I hesitate to use the word confident, but we are very, very hopeful that the homes England are completely back in the fold that they will be bringing.

everything they can to develop the scheme, they are already just to remind everyone they already are 10% landowner.

but they they are looking at everything with us as as a partner already, and we're very pleased about that.

associated with that Members will have picked up that Network Rail had grit of SE and, I should say, have agreed to our plans to extend the platforms at Western hangar station, which is very, very important in terms of the

the travel plan for multiple and KCC have been very, very co-operative in terms of working through the 1 0 6, which is extensive and complex.

we have, we've kept up good dialogue with the adjoining it, with the owners, the the the farmers early Arlene Price, any others we've been to see Jerry Pack, who owns holiday extras, who joined society and so thing things have progressed, the LLPs has,

yeah, like so many other elements of the council, had to been restructured.

and we have a new managing director, Gary Ridgewell, who was the

who was the construction director is now the managing director and the team has been rationalised.

fairly significantly, but on on confident that we've got a kind of Elinor Keener sort of outfit now.

sorry to see, you know, colleagues go, but no one got sacked, no one was made redundant, you know, people just decided that their future lay elsewhere and,

I think we've got a much more, shall we say, fit for purpose team now.

the the work that the the work that the team are doing is we're seeking to rationalise phase 1.

significantly, and looking to do everything we can really to bring forward the wastewater treatment works, which is the key that unlocks the door and.

we you know, we were sort of doing everything we can on all fronts, really, I'll leave it at that Chair, I'm happy to people who promptly, no doubt, through their questions.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:13:01

thank you very much for that term, dif detailed introduction and I will open it up to members, this is your chance to ask the Leader and Cabinet.

portfolio Holder questions so Councillor Butcher.

thank you, Chair Jamie, are you able to give us an update on the solar

Cllr James Butcher - 0:13:18

farm and what's happening about that, thank you very much, Councillor Butcher, yes, so.

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:13:23

it has yeah this this started as Members will remember that in the

in the planning application, which has received a resolution to grant, there is an aspiration for net 0 for the forest scheme.

however, shortly yeah, I suppose it must have been issued in July to an officers came to me to discuss ways that we could ensure that we could deliver a net 0 garden town for the 21st century should be Net Zero, and so,

I I OK, yeah, we chatted about it, I confirm that that was that was what we should be doing so, so they went away and work to scheme out and then come back to us with.

plan and now this plan is one where Members will remember that, of course.

the red line, the planning line for which we'd got resolution to grant, isn't all of the land that the Council alone officers will correct me, but it's about three quarters within the red line and about a quarter is outside the red line what would that means the quarter on the outside is still very significant, so the plan was to take a field that we own and build a solar array in in that field.

now the the advantage of the solar array is that it would be bill or part of it would be built before article starts to be developed, so in effect we get in front of the curve the plan identical previously was that as homes were built they would get solar devices etc etc but we would never quite catch up, we would always be that's why there was an aspiration rather than a commitment.

what are very clever officers came up with is that if we could actually start generating solar power before we built Unit 1 and before it was occupied, then effectively we would be in credit in terms of our solar generation.

which would mean that, as as home to a Bill and more solar power was added, we would stay in front of the curve, because the array was always that buffer that that was created now.

stand tech, who are the

did a tender for us and we got got tender returns from a synergy who are already providing the the the cabling and wiring in article, and they are sort of building on that contract, we'll build the what I would call a substation.

but this will be a substation for the grid, but will also contain a large battery, and this is the battery that solar array will will feed and they'll be dotted around.

so that the the power will be drawn from these batteries, it's the it's the careful use of these batteries, along with the solar array that makes it a very, very clever solution that keeps us in front of that carbon curve, if you like,

so it's a, it's a really exciting, innovative idea is subject to planning clear, we have your planning for it, yeah, but you know there will be a planning application in due course, but it's it's a clever, clever solution to a real 21 st century problem.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:17:48

Cllr Connor McConville - 0:17:51

Councillor Macondo, thanks to him, this committee previously saw sigh of the local partnerships, sort of governance work between the Council and the LP I don't know, if yeah I mean you mentioned, obviously the changes to the board, but I don't know if you could expand any more on on that specific document, the actions within it and how they were progressing.

yeah, I mean the challenges have mainly been in the officers, the the

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:18:15

the the the board, he has had some challenges but not not dramatic, I think that that that that those that report that document is is a good basis for us to to to build off of the the the

no one can predict the future, but I found the discussion around that somehow the LDP was going to be limited.

are not limited in corporate sense but limited in what it did as a bit frustrating.

I can't go into great detail, but everything that we're talking about include the l l p.

the yelpy will, I will be the NLP, will go beyond the development yelpy will still be maintaining net scheme, so it might not, it may not be the roles that people originally envisaged, but where we're talking about a long period of time here and what the LPA gives us is a huge amount of flexibility so the NLP can fit,

can do a job for us in a whole range of things. So so I I, I don't think that they'll be much change in terms of the and, shall we say, the the the, if forgive me from using wrong words here, but the overall objective of the LDP, but there are individual targets may change as as things progress. I think that the position we're in at the moment with regard to governance is is really good. There's a good mix of people in the bowl, there is a good mix we may have to call, and it might be well a white actor, look and refresh and see how we go, but but I'm I'm pretty content with it with a much more confident about article now than I was say in October. I'm I'm very confident now that we've got a real way forward. Is that OK, yeah

Councillor Jones,

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:20:39

so obviously we're talking about a lot of things which are in the mix here.

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:20:41

what is a realistic timeframe for seeing the first houses built, because I think that's what people ask all the time, really when is this going to happen?

well, that is really the 64 pounds.

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:20:55

in fact, it is probably the 20 million prior question, so so I would I would think that we will be probably one of this just off the top of my head, I would think, would probably be another year in in getting agreement with the bodies that we gotta get agreement with.

then we will probably take 18 months or so to build the waste water treatment plant, it's the wastewater treatment plant that unlocks the door here.

meantime we can we can get on with the roadworks on the on the D, A 20, but it is really the the wastewater tree we could build 140 homes.

we could start tomorrow

if?

but that that is our limit, we could only do 140 homes on existing sewerage, what we have in order to do the other, what is the other 8,300 and 60, would they go to wastewater treatment plant, so there's really no point in a start in that 140 homes early.

because

we we need to do this in a carefully managed structured way, so I would I would say, and that it will probably be 2027 beginning of 28.

might be.

you know.

there won't be any quicker than that.

and is it going to impact on our housing targets in the District at

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:22:42

all that we're gonna have to wait that long?

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:22:49

the housing targets are being challenged, Nicky Jacobs causes the citizens, it's simple answers, yes, it does yes, it does that puts more pressure on on the planning system, as it were, however, Members will have picked up that the government have introduced a level of flexibility into the

into housing targets, now, officers and we've got some very clever officers are suggesting that we might be able to.

use article to offset future targets as your offset under delivery at the moment with regard to them, but it will only be in the margins, we won't be able to stop development and say we're going to do at all other older article, and this will only be in the margins.

so we will just have to we'll just have to see how that goes, but simple answer to your question is yes, it certainly does that this delay impacts on our housing target numbers.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:24:02

Councillor Alan Martin, thank you, you just Pre answered my question

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:24:06

about the water treatment plant has she, but while the question was going back to the homes England, so we're feeling?

relatively confident about that, having gone for a bit of a bit of a journey, but what would the August 2 questions linked to that, what would the other options be for us or do we have any other options if that?

if that falls down and the extent to which things would get delayed, I mean, do we have to pause until we find a partner or or can we progress some of this with or without a very excellent question, the

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:24:42

so we are proceeding, let's hope, so this is this is to quote our

assistant Chief Executive, this is playing out, so so we we, we want to do this, because this gives us our greatest flexibility this, you will recall, lots of people ask about control when you know ownership et cetera this this leaves a cinema, our plan B is, and it's there is also being progressed is we have to?

create an investable proposition for the market, so if in this case, the public sector homes, England, the government, if we get Treasury agreement, et cetera, if that doesn't happen, then we've got to go to the market, we can't not do.

audible, so so we have to go to the market, which means then we have to have a document which which is an offering to the market, which in effect will be a sort of tender.

and we will, we will then accept bids from whomever, there's a lot of there's a lot of interest in in in the market in the private sector, for this we've had meetings with a number of massive developers and

you know, interested party, shall we say so, so I?

but this is plan day, this is not our first choice, our first choice would be that we work with homes, England, that we we work with KCC, we and we we we get over the hurdle of of the infrastructure, the infrastructure but when you think about it that is what homes England, homes, England are supposed to free up stalled sites and the fact that the Crown Estates said no to us demonstrates that our site is stalled so that that's the kind of the media focus for their money. Their next objective is providing a strategic infrastructure, which is what our wastewater treatment is.

just just as if I might church just to spare Ashford is absolutely paralyzed with the the the phosphate problem, nutrient neutrality has stopped a shedload of of the Ashford say they've got a 2000.

planning applications which they would love to consent already to to consent, but they can't because of this nutrient neutrality problem and Canterbury's position. I don't know the numbers but they are worse, so so the whole sort of drainage into into the stud and then in to Stodmarsh is a real real problem, but we've got a solution. That's what that's why the wastewater treatment plant is so important. It's that it's the key that unlocks the door to to this so yeah yeah, sorry,

not until any other questions.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:28:05

did you want to come in?

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:28:18

nowhere is just a very quick one, and just on the back foot, leaders

Mr Ewan Green - 0:28:22

said they were making very positive progress, but progress on that will be reported to Audit and Governance Committee, and we've got his Kemp Audit Partnership, taking on views to oversee that as well, so there will be regular updates to Members through Angie. Thank you for

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:28:38

clarifying that Councillor Butcher, we indicating yeah yeah, change of

Cllr James Butcher - 0:28:44

topic to traffic disruption. I don't think there's something that the Committee looked at back in February of last year about the knock-on effects of things that alteration broken over tap on local communities, whether that's folks in a Hawkinge when Traffic's held up or getting diverted, and of course we've got the biometric checks coming in in October, which are predicted to cause a lot more disruption, and I just wonder if what we might be able to do to make sure the voice of communities like Hawkins get properly taken account of when decisions are being made by Kent resilience forum and other bodies.

thank you very much.

Councillor Butcher, yeah, I mean.

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:29:23

you know why they're well why there aren't sort of more suited questions and traffic about this, so you know.

I'm not sure so in this these biometric possible things have to get the proper name for them come in during the summer and.

eurotunnel are currently spending 80 million pounds preparing for it.

now it will be like going into an airport, so you pull up to say you drive your car in you, do your ticket in stuff you pull around you, you go up to a post, everyone has to get out of the car and present their passports.

personally.

facial recognition, someone was telling me, there's also.

fingerprinting but I don't know, but anyway it's all of that sort of stuff, if, if the electronics are happy, you'll get back in a car and then you can you can drive drive and this has to have everybody.

you, like me, will have seen a number of cars going into, so everybody has to do this Eurotunnel think that if it all works well, it will add eight minutes to each person's individual passage through to through the terminal there they're pretty confident that they can they can manage it unless something else goes wrong.

apparently the Port of Dover are not in that position, they don't have the room to create these kind of pull up and get out older, so the way they are going to do it is by.

handing a tablet into the car, so you take your own photograph, you put your your possible on it and do your fingerprint or whatever, and this has to be passed around the car, and then you give it back to the careful you don't drop it but give it back to the so it goes over it the problem is going to be at Dover and that that is where it can really really hit us because,

Dover Tap can only go so far once he comes through at around the tunnel, that's it, we start to, we start to get hit, so it's not, the Kent Kent resilience Forum are currently at the it's mainly about monitor and manage well.

it's going to happen, there is going to be gridlock, I don't know when and but it will inevitably happen.

but put at ease. The current policies is a monitor and managing react to it. So so there are, there are, so so there is a big emphasis now to try and get as many trucks as possible into Sevington, and there are places long along the route that things will be closed and dither so don't get me wrong, nobody said there are plans that it how to manage it, but it is about managing it when it happens, rather than trying to prevent it so.

not very good knows, unfortunately.

thank you, Councillor Aston, and I think the committee is has talked

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:32:55

about these issues before and is looking to see whether it's something that could come back before us later this year.

Councillor we.

Cllr John Wing - 0:33:06

thank you Chair, first of all, thank you for your honest, appraisal work going on, I think the residents have been very confused as not to have built some genuine timescale, so we can go back to the residents even about the planning and and I know Members do get lots of e-mails and information about planning and planning is probably one of the biggest things we get what was in my application go through these we can.

about multiple, I mean flows, there was also a lot of concern about the soft of multiple ii green, how are we looking for work, green infrastructure going from multiple into HIV and so on, and I know Saltwood in particular are very concerned about the amounts of traffic going through the I know was always concerned, have you had any more thoughts about how a green infrastructure for multiple into its surrounding area without using the car go ahead?

thanks very much Councillor wing yeah, so I wrote to Pope there is

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:33:56

there is quite an advanced active travel plan, the the railway station is obviously key to it. Our old friends stage coach, are very involved in it. I know that there is there is emphasis on walking, cycling, et cetera, et cetera,

so we have the plan, I am, I am confident that the design of article will accommodate all of those aspirations and more difficult, either I see, then is excuse me, is is connecting otter pool with high though yeah article with no Romney or article with folks then,

each

you know

that's where that's where I see the gap occurring.

it will be.

you know, we will have created a nightmare scenario if we end up with 22,000 people, 11,000 cars or driving down London Road to go to Sainsbury's on a Saturday morning, it's going to be complete, complete mayhem, so I am conscious of all of the problems that everybody has has told me about.

there is no simple solution to any of them, but they are all being a are all being worked on now, whether or not there are we can encourage less people to use cars or weaken, you know, offer alternative forms of of transport once article is is partially developed there will be shops, there will be facilities adoptable, but my concern is Phase 1 4,500 homes and I'm not entirely sure whether they will have sufficient retail up there.

so it's going to be, you know, it's gonna be a kind of what comes first, the the ego, the chicken or the chicken or the yak, as it were, but all of all of the elements are there each just which time they arrive is the is the issue and I I could I could promise the earth at this point but,

it it is it's a major problem that that there has to, quite rightly, be in the front of everybody's minds.

OK, thank you not to add to your list of problems, but just to mention

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:36:31

Southern Water and the work that you've been doing there, that that's obviously a topic that's come before this committee before as well, could you just give us a brief update on on where that's got to and then we probably need to move on?

Cllr Jim Martin - 0:36:45

yes, certainly what we've got Southern Water coming in, I think, on the on the 1st February again now they have held meetings directly with with Southern Water, so there are there are three levels at which we're meeting Southern Water there are is the there's the officer level which is kind of technical level where you know the details on the testing and all of that sort of that sort of stuff that involves very much the

independent Drainage Board on the on the Marsh and

Andy Blaschka, which represents Andrew Rush, goes along, so we're well represented on on that one, then there's the there's, the level that I kind of interact with Southern Water and to dragged him in and tell him off and jump about it and that sort of stuff I don't know how helpful it is, but it makes me feel better.

so principally the the things we've been talking about there.

are the

the

overwhelming at the pumps at the Derringham pumping station at late, the failure of the pumps at Range Road in Hyde and the flooding at Yeadon Road, there were other bits of flooding, et cetera, et cetera, but areas of ones that Connor evolved out of the at the meetings.

Tony Hills, the KCC Councillor, has been very involved, who is very knowledgeable about these matters, and that's what I've personally been pursuing Southern Water on the the Dennis, a third level where we are the council are part of a group of Southern Counties councils.

organised by Wilden council in Sussex, who are seeking to get Ofwat to take action against Southern Water for their consistent failure to meet their customer needs, and we have we had a meeting with Ofwat Ofwat and Southern Water were there in force to sought to defend their position.

so I've signed a letter asking both of what any Environment Agency to take action against and citing those three immediate immediate problems.

the the bathing water quality, which which everyone is is really concerned about.

while I jump up and down about it, it is pretty technical and the

the the officers largely largely deal with that.

the the, bizarrely, the the sewerage is not the big issue with they the waltz of failure at the pumps at range road failure, the pumps died don't have a huge impact on the baby Malta quality, the bathing water quality.

problems stem from

St Mary's by and little stone, and in little stone the Environment Agency think that it's leaking septic tanks.

that are leaking into the watercourses, as as the as the De Marsh discharges into.

at St Mary's by originally they felt that it was illegal connections that had been that been done that were just discharging sewerage into again into the watercourse to the new sewer, as it's called along, no, they don't seem to be so hot on that now they seem now to be talking about illegal discharge from farmland.

so I'm kind of in their hands in terms of the

what their technical data throws up the testing regime?

yeah, I think I think they could be testing more, but as Councillor Prater, if he was here, would tell you how expensive it is to test, but that candidates where we are at very much a work in progress, I will say this for Southern Water, they are responding to me, they're not. Initially they were ignoring me, but they are definitely responding to me now, so so that's where we are, I don't have a simple solution to that chair. I'm sorry

OK thanks very much for the update and thank you for coming to the

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:41:37

Committee this evening, we will move on to Item 7, which is focused on a brighter future phase 2 public engagement, feedback, and I think we have a presentation.

thank you.

7 FABF phase two public engagement feedback

Mr Matt Rain - 0:42:17

OK thanks, so I'm here to talk to you a little bit about the focused and brighter future Phase 2 public engagement, events that we had back in November now since the big screen wakes up that's good to see, and I just wanted to give you a bit of an update on on how it went and just let you know some of the plans for the next event which will be in March so probably just about 10 minutes of me on this.

a bit of background which I know that you know about, but just by way of a recap.

we commissioned an organisation called digital urban to build our digital twin of the project area, the focused and brighter future projects area.

the reason we did this is that we wanted our community and our stakeholders to be able to view the proposals in a much more meaningful way than we think that they've been able to in the past, so not just TD plans on a on a board or a bit of paper but actually immersed themselves in what the future of Folkestone might actually look like the reason we did this is we want to increase engagement from our community, we want to get a more diverse,

a diverse group of people responding to our engagement, events which we don't always get, we certainly wanted to engage with younger people, because that is a bit of a gap for us, typically in terms of our community engagement activities, a bit of a blind spot.

and we really wanted people to better understand the proposals and a lot of the feedback that we had to say at the July event, where we didn't have virtual reality and a digital twin were the people found it quite difficult to understand some of the technical drawings, the 2 D maps,

made it, it was hard for them to orientate themselves as to where these improvements were happening, so we found that virtual reality and a digital twin would be a good way in which we could do this, ultimately, this is gonna lead to improved project outcomes because if people understand what the proposals are better than they can give more informed feedback and that will create a much more improved product,

the public engagement event itself was between the 16th and 18th of November on the Thursday, the 16th we are at the quarter house, we had over 100 schoolchildren, primary schoolchildren mainly at the Thursday event who came and joined us for a magic carpet ride around the project area and this is what we call Phase 2 of the Folkestone and brighter future project so that was focusing on Middlebrook Square, Shannon Street and Bouverie Square and this PI this phase also included the plans to relocate the bus station to a long middlebrow square itself.

so he had more than 400 attendees this time round, which is almost 150 more than we had previously with the students events kids were able to get really engaged with it, they were able to dragon drop what they would like into the sea and are in a potential new garden square in Bouverie Square.

which they really enjoyed. There were some interesting things which they dragged and drop at Ty at times, but I think it did show that they really enjoyed it and were really engaging with it, the other thing that we had there that you can see in the top right-hand corner was a 3D touch table and I think both I know that many of you came will probably agree that that worked really well as an engagement tool and it helps people understand.

the proposals against the current project area as it is today.

in terms of numbers.

the engagement window was open from the 12th of November to the 4th of December, and I, I think the headline figure is the top bar chart there on the top bars in this chart the total engagement with the scheme.

was three times as much as it was back in July, pre-digital, twin and privy are.

for taking you from the bottom upwards, there's Ian in person attendees we had 405 in November 259 in July, so almost 150 more people, and that next metric, next one up from the bottom annoyed consultation board views which is a bit of a mouthful but really what I'm trying to say here is the only way in which people could have seen the detailed plans was either come to one of our in person events or go through the website and look at the consultation boards online.

there's no other way in which you could see the detail of the plans back in July, but in our November event we actually, as you will all know, posted the project's area fly through on our website and on YouTube, and that's attracted so far over 1,200 views, so we had much higher engagement of people actually looking and seeing what the future of Folkestone is proposed to be like than we did in the July event. I think the disappointing metrics certainly from my perspective, there is that the engagement survey completions weren't wildly different. They were a bit higher in the November event, but they weren't hugely higher and then the July event, which is what we'd hoped, and I think that is something that we're gonna look to address, how we can get more meaningful feedback as well as people understanding what the when, seeing the proposals as well, that's something that we'd really like to overcome. In phase 3

so, in terms of a high level results, these are just the headlines.

66% of respondents either agreed or strongly agreed that their in favour of the overall proposals. And that's the moving of the bus station Shannon Street Bridge there, linking the Guildhall to Guildhall streets if you like, and a park where the current bus station is Leeds until the next point, the most widely supported areas were, in fact, the the bridge that links Guildhall Street, North and Guildhall Street, and also the green area that are proposed to go over the top of Forrester's Way, as it currently is riveting the bus station back to a garden square, was supported by 66% of respondents, so 66% of respondents either agreed or strongly agreed that it should go back to a garden square.

only 25% of respondents didn't think that the proposals would cater for their travel needs, we had quite a number of people who neither agreed nor disagreed, and that is because a number of our respondents didn't actually use the bus station, it doesn't actually apply to everybody that particular question which you'll see in the detail.

and the things that were most widely liked by respondents were green spaces, the garden square itself and that bridge that was linking the two Guildhall streets there.

there were also a number of concerns as well that the public shared with us.

the key themes of these were that by moving the bus station

in a sort of linear fashion along Middle Burg Square, the south side of Middlewich Square.

it actually be exposed to quite harsh winter conditions, some people said that that part of the street, especially shaded by the shopping centre, and she gets really quite cold, can get quite icy, can be a little bit of a wind tunnel, and there were concerns that.

bus stands wouldn't be bus stops, wouldn't actually be fit for purpose, the shelters themselves.

also, people had some concerns around those with additional accessibility needs in terms of making connections, so, with the bus station proposed to be much more spread out some people fed back that that would make it difficult for people to make their connections, especially up an uphill gradient from outside the front of the shopping centre towards the current bus station.

there were concerns raised about the prospect of anti-social behaviour in the new garden square and on the green area, on top of Forrester's Way as well, there were more requests for a 20 miles per hour speed limit in this phase of the projects, but also we had that in phase one as well so in the wider project area itself and also some questions of over the role of the bus station building, how that's going to be brought into the scheme and what that might look like in the future now those key concerns have been.

published on the website now and the Project have responded to each of those themes and and a few more actually, and I think you may have seen some of those documents already possibly circulated to members already.

and they are now alive on our website as well, so for the public's go and go and see those responses and also see the detail of the the feedback in its entirety from the public and their on our levelling up fund pages and they're under the public engagement November 2023 part of the website's we're gonna be signposting people towards that on social media tomorrow and we've got some problems up and ready to go for that. Our next event planned between Thursday the 7th and Saturday, the 9th of March to 7th. We're looking to go into secondary school this time we can't have majored

on primary school students at the previous events, we're gonna look to major, if you like, on secondary school students, this time around likely to be focused in Academy, we're just finalising details with them.

then we're gonna be in Folkestone town hall as well, so a slight change of venue for the eighth, and the ninth too will also be inviting some primary school schools, along to some of them morning sessions as well in Folkestone town hall.

with the next public engagement event, we're gonna run, we're gonna be focusing on the more detailed designs for what we call Phase 1, so that's from Folkestone, Central down Cheriton Road.

as well as concepts designs for the areas that we haven't tackled yet as part of the public engagement work, so that's Guildhall Street Sandgate Road and some more firmed up plans as a result of the public's feedback on Bouverie Square as well, for the first time the public will be able to have a virtual reality fly through the entire project area as well, so they'll be able to comment on the flow of the scheme and how it looks in its entirety.

that's all I've got few but really happy to field any questions that you've got, I've also got rot here.

on happy to fill any questions on the wider project.

thank you, Roger did you want to say anything before we open it?

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:52:59

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:53:04

and not really at this stage, I mean, I'm happy to feel questions around the wider project is masses has mentioned, I think at the moment, so the consultation is gonna come come out. As we kind of expected, it was great to see the kind of younger generation getting involved as well, and I think some of those are ideas from a younger younger generation have actually been incorporated into some of the designs that we've started to produce for sort of Bouverie square, one and so on, so I think it's been a well-worked exercise but happy to answer questions around the

the project as a whole.

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:53:35

thank you, I think one of my personal favourites was a request, there should be a whole Centre in Folkestone, as I don't know if that's forming part of your thinking or not.

I'll open it up to members for any comments or questions.

Councillor Jones,

so obviously they are talking about the bus station and where the bus

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:53:53

stops are gonna be located, have you?

recited those in response to the queries about accessibility.

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:54:06

yeah, so we're working very closely clearly with stage coach, they've got different routes, they've penned on on the design, so they're looking at those routes again and are happy to change where which bus stop applies to which route so they're happy to do that, I think in terms of accessibility I think they're making sure they are, you know use best practice and the guidance is out there.

to ensure

it works as a scheme, they feel it can be much safer, actually, as part of the the linear approach compared to the current bus station, in terms of managing health and safety, where buses are kind of people are crossing in front of buses and behind buses, et cetera, so I think the linear approaches it is much safer route, so overall the they're working with us very closely and they're happy with it, but they're happy to adjust things accordingly. If requests come in and then how

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:55:01

are you going to tackle the the wind tunnel effect? It is cold and erect

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:55:07

yeah, I won't lie to challenge her, we're trying to to look at some intervention, so the bus stops that Matt mentioned earlier. Very often they come out without the sides on, so obviously we're looking to ensure we've got sides on those buses or those bus tunnels and try and site them in so a clever way to try and minimise that sort of a wind tunnel effect planting trees as well where we can again very tricky sometimes a lot of services in that area, so we've got to try and accommodate trees generally, they almost dictated where those trees go because of the services

so this does that to consider as well.

and and and generally I think any other interventions that we can put in, so will see this creative focused and who are doing some of the banners and other interventions, and they haven't mushy put forward all their ideas yet, but again, that's something they may be able to help break up that wind tunnel effect there as well, but it is a difficult one to to overcome, so it's one that's we are definitely trying to engineer out. Thank you now I think that's definitely from

Cllr Anita Jones - 0:56:04

my perspective, having walked up and down there, I can see the problems. It would be cold if you're an older person waiting for a bus, so but it sounds like you've got some positive ideas, so thank you

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:56:15

just him on the the point about the bus routes layout is that the information that was available at the drop-in session is that available on the website for people to see the proposed layout of the different bus stops it is I can see nods and I'm where that's being worked on and addressed all that information then appear also for people to have a look at the revised proposals and will stage coach be available at the next session for people to talk to because I think it was a shame that there wasn't a stage coach representative at the earlier session.

Mr Matt Rain - 0:56:53

yeah, so if I take the point about the information on the website, yes, it is on the Folkestone and Hythe district council websites under the consultation boards for the Phase 2 November, public engagement, you'll see the detail there, the annotated,

map of Middlewich Square shows whether the buses are proposed to be, we will invite Stagecoach again to the next event and we will encourage them to come along.

yeah, that's hopefully good luck, thank you.

Councillor Martin,

Cllr Laura Davison - 0:57:28

just from my understanding, the concerns over congestion and

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:57:31

suggestions around the the speed limit.

do they relate directly to the changes that are being made, or just general concerns that have bubbled up on the side,

thank you, Councillor Martin, essentially yes, I think it's just

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 0:57:46

generally good practice to go and slow the traffic down. Obviously we're changing the the the centre, where the bus station is now into a sort of a green park. Is you know, ambitions to have a play area there and we can use the topography of the land as well as a greater role effects for kids to salute enjoy, so you want to make sure it's as safe as possible where the the way the the roads that are configured now there should be less traffic running past that particular locations in Bouverie Square

but as a whole, it's been well supported. There's been some anecdotal evidence to suggest that cars on average, go around 27 miles an hour along there at the moment, so it's quite kind of within that that within that framework it's very difficult to police. I think there are some issues around policing the 20 mile an hour zone, but the aim is to go from Sherrington Road, where the Sheraton Gardens is and all the way through down to Middlebrook Square and around, so we were where the KCC are on board with us, and I think there's some

a suggestion that we might do some more sort of survey speed surveys, but KCC are just examining that because they feel actually we've got potentially enough evidence to suggest that we can we can put signage up, so I'm not sure if I answered your question but that's essentially good practice and we aim to try and put it in that's that's kind of an endorsement from all parties winning.

thank you and then just around the concerned Roanheads, anti-social

Cllr Alan Martin - 0:59:12

behaviour, I think you cover that from the point of view that you're talking to the police and looking at options around surveillance and and so on by.

I can see how that would be a bit of a concern and as someone who

spent a good few years working at Castle how support Castle Hill Avenue where you've got the the bombed church out the out the back this afternoon,

a gathering of chaos going on in that in that kind of green space which is much smaller, but that has the advantage of being very easy to walk around, whereas I guess this would be more of a sort of a central area where people might be forced to to walk through it in a way that they can't bypass the area in in other parts of the of the of the town, so I don't really have a question on that, but I did resonate with me when I was looking at the plans that that could be a bit of an issue.

yeah, so to come in there we've we've we've worked very closely with

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:00:04

the design out crime team to kind of ensure that we don't put in obvious Heidi holes and things like that to ensure people feel safe at the the key to it. I think is an activation of that area, making sure it's got a good activation, so events and other things going on to the more footfall that's there. Hopefully, that will discourage people from having the anti-social behaviour. It's a problem throughout the country. As we all know, that is how we manage it and how we design is key, and I think we're in that stage at the moment, with a design, community design team have been very much involved with

with our with our kind of design team, I hasten to add that we don't always want to go to the lowest common denominator and then detract from the wider benefits for the society, so we just want to make sure there's a balance between designing out crime, but also ensuring that the space isn't too sterile and has it's got nothing to offer.

Councillor McKenna,

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:01:00

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:01:05

thanks at the next consultation, will there be any sort of update in terms of the designs? Obviously in the previous one I mean the square obviously had lots of ideas and but mainly the the the the Lincoln Bridge in Guildhall I mean there were discussions, you know there was a few possible options of what that might look like. Is it likely that anything's going to be firmed up, and then there'd be something there that will look a bit more? This is what it's going to look like, or is it still going to be quite conceptual?

yes, that's the aim is to have it. I mean, obviously everything's

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:01:40

around costs, that's that's the key things put in here, so we want to make sure we don't elevate the design to such an extent that we can't actually deliver it for the money, so we want to make sure that we put something together that is deliverable, so we're obviously doing our due diligence on the financials of that, but we are very confidence that we can get a bridging. There is this type of bridge, so it could be a dogleg or it could be an S shape, and that's something that we're just looking at now. As far as the

the V R is concerned, I think we're looking at a dog leg bridge going in there, isn't it, Matt I think I've got some looking to you because I know you're doing a lot the detail at the moment on that, sorry that will be going in there and obviously aware that we've got more detail on the sort of first phase that'll be going in as well and again Bouverie squares as a current moves on a pace as well as have some of the other areas, so we should have more more of a kind of an idea of what it will actually look like going forward

why could you just Clare Hill, clarify what the dog leg bridges?

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:02:34

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:02:38

a good point, it's essentially a sort of straight, and then a sudden 90 degree turn to to go of left or right, so I don't know if that's helped at all it has thanking them.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:02:51

Councillor Butcher

I just wanted to build on what Councillor Jones was saying about bus

Cllr James Butcher - 1:02:58

users and I guess they're moving on that with cyclists and as as well as the public engagement you're doing what engagement you might be doing with groups like cycle shed where he or I don't know if there is a bus users form anything like that but just to make sure that we're getting that kind of lived experience of people who are cycling and using buses to make sure that once this is in place things are better rather than worse for cyclists and bus users.

yes, so we are working with very much involved with, certainly with

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:03:29

cyclists, and is obviously quite a grouping of off bus people who use buses, so there obviously are voicing their opinions as well, so we do try to coordinate that with with them, to ensure the designs are kind of working in in the right way. So we do try to do that. There is a balance between that. Users tend to focus on what they need and never see, because the scheme is for everybody in different different types of of users, including walkers as well. We've just got to cater for all, so is making sure that we don't again, so I've eliminated by helping one we're causing or creating a problem for another, so it's kind of balancing that, but we do yeah. We do actively engage with those key stakeholders

Mr Matt Rain - 1:04:14

thank you and sorry just to add to that we are putting posters on all buses as well with QR codes that take you to the engagement area of the website, and we did that last time, we recommend Stagecoach to do that again in a perceptive and open to that, so we're trying to reach as many people that we use the buses in the areas as possible.

and and you know just to say it was a really great experience going to

Cllr James Butcher - 1:04:40

the engagement felt really kind of creative, and yes, yeah, thank you for that.

yes, I echo that I think it was really good to have the different ways

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:04:52

of experiencing it, it did make a real difference, I think, to Bob in the understanding of of the scheme.

just in terms of that, the the point about feedback,

perhaps particularly from from bus users, that came through just in terms of access issues for people and raising of equalities, impact assessments and and and those issues, you said a bit about addressing what the bus shelters might be like.

is there anything that that you can say about those issues that people have raised in terms of mobility and accessing between the different?

parts of the town, if the bus stops, are positioned in a more linear way.

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:05:45

you are certainly doing an equality impact assessment, that's gonna be the key for any major projects, so there has to be carried out in terms of accessibility as different types of accessibility issues. We kind of have looked at benches and other things that we will have rest points between between them again. That's created another issue where people say we don't want benches because that creates anti-social behaviour. So again, it's that sort of balancing act, but those access issues are being considered by by design team and is a random sort of practical delivery of those particular interventions as well. But I can find out more at a later date and bring that back before you

Mr Matt Rain - 1:06:25

and just to add, the equality impact assessments that have been done thus far by KCC have also been added to the website, so when that signposted tomorrow by social media, you have links to the other detailed work that's been done on that so far, and if people want to comment on those once they see them, how would they do that?

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:06:41

Mr Matt Rain - 1:06:46

yes, a number of ways by all means, please come along to the next engagement, events and comment during that engagement window, but also on that webpage. There's a public engagement, e-mail address, which is public dot engagement at Folkestone, hyphen homeoffice dot gov dot uk, which people very welcome and we would encourage them to e-mail us, and let us know your thoughts. Thank you, Councillor Butcher, sorry,

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:07:07

something I forgot Shirley, we will be looking at sooner or premium

Cllr James Butcher - 1:07:11

whose benefits were only 25% of respondents did not think the new proposals would cater for their travel needs. It's just a bit of a question about the only, and it feels like it's just a little bit of something to keep an eye on, because 25% feels like quite a lot of people saying this kind of brand new scheme might not meet their travel needs, or I'm not looking for a specific answer on that, but I was a bit concerned just to say, as we're not only against it that feels like quite a lot of people not not convinced that this is gonna be a helpful scheme form.

I can see nods, I think that's noted.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:07:45

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:07:48

please do, I think are all I'd say to that, is I agree, and that's something that we kind of raised our eyebrow at, but at the same time I think it was also because of the bus issue I think you've got more people who are concentrated on the buses and the changes there probably more so than the wider kind of attendees, so I think there was a concentration of people very focused on that element as which point distorted slightly the statistics but something we're definitely keeping an eye on with the next step.

with the next consultation in March,

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:08:21

I'm not seeing other hands, I just wanted to ask about the engagement going forward, you said that although a lot more people came to to see the plans it didn't actually translate into that many more comments from people or views which I can kind of understand because you you can't really see it, you go away, you think I'll fill that survey in and then you don't get round to it what was ha, what are you thinking in terms of trying to encourage more perhaps immediate responses from people while they're there, how are you going to capture that or encourage people to do that?

Mr Matt Rain - 1:08:55

yeah, thank you. It's it's a balance. To be honest with you, we'd like to get as much information as we can and feedback as we can without wanting to bore people and then to fill in the feedback form for 45 minutes. We are thinking of different ways. At the previous event, we gave people coins to make a wish afterwards. We can also build in feedback questions to the virtual reality experience itself, so we can ask people if they like things or what they'd like to see in a particular area which were thinking about the problem with that is that it extends the virtual reality experience and then only those who do the VAR experience will be able to feedback on those bit. So we are working hard to

translate increased engagement into increased feedback, and we will be doing more to encourage people to fill in those feedback forms on the sport or maybe have tablets for them to do it digitally yeah, lots of different ways of which want to do it, and we can be confident that we can pay more attention to that and get more feedback as a result.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:09:56

the other thing is that they are, I think, as you mentioned earlier,

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:09:58

actually explains it so well, I think in the first round we had to have the two dimensional drawings, people probably maybe ask questions as part of that commentary, whereas I think the V are people, just saw him, yeah, get that and they've just move on and don't necessarily make a comment as they would normally in the traditional sense, so I think that's there'd be another reason as well potential. Councillor O'Connell, I just come in, I mean I'm a lot of people and I would just

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:10:21

put off by writing, so I mean the the option, do were to to verbally record feedback that you could translate into into no written documents, reports and stuff some way of doing that perhaps might be, or if possible, might might allow more people to engage.

any other questions or comments.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:10:47

no.

I think in terms of the the responses we've talked about reporting the engagement, I think the other thing was just in terms of broadening the the the the diversity of the responses that you're getting.

so is that something that your I mean it, it has improved in some of the indicators with what you've shared, but not on others, perhaps so is that something also you're actively thinking about in terms of the next round of engagement.

Mr Matt Rain - 1:11:22

yes, yeah, we were really trying to engage as many people as we can, we're working with colleagues to try and identify routes into different groups, that we are underrepresented or underrepresented, who we might want to engage with so yeah, we are trying lots of different avenues to try to do as much as we can.

it is challenging some sometimes if people don't want to give us feedback and don't want to engage with, this is tough because it's their choice, but we are trying very hard to try and get as many groups and as a bunch of a diverse opinion as we can.

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:11:59

and just to add, this is a project, it has to be delivered by a specific deadline, and that's the other big balancing act we have to have as well, so we have to get things moving quite quickly because we're working with a D-lock as well at the moment, so we're trying to get all those consultations in there to make sure we get home and get all of that kind of register to make those tweaks to the design but fundamentally all the good work that was done with the place plan. Originally, I think, is kind of where this has evolved from and I hope that we've tried to translate that into the right designs, and I think if that tweaking is what we're looking for at the moment, but we are up against the clock as well, and I think that's that's the kind of consideration. So we can't do fundamental changes to the scheme because that's kind of how we've got our money, but we can do those tweaks and those little nuances that made the project a better, as Matt was saying, give us a better outcome

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:12:49

thank you, thanks for coming back to share the feedback from this phase of things, will you come back to the committee again and update us on the next phase, that'd be helpful, great, thank you very much.

thank you.

8 2023 Tenant Satisfaction Survey Action Plan

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:13:07

we're moving on to our last item on the agenda this evening, which is the 2023 tenant satisfaction survey, action plan and results from the tenant satisfaction survey, do we have an introduction?

thank you, Michael, thank you very much Chair.

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:13:23

yes, historically social landlords, as is best practice, have tended to carry out tenant satisfaction surveys every two years, however, in 2023 last April, the regulator of social housing introduced its new tenant satisfaction measures standard and were now required to carry out that survey annually and report the results to the regulator so we carried out our survey between May and August last year.

based on our stock of just under 3,400 properties. The regulator expects us to achieve a minimum of 510 responses and I'm very pleased to say that we exceeded that we managed to get 684 replies and I'm even more pleased to be able to report that satisfaction increased, as you see in the report, in almost every area, the only two exceptions to that being cleanliness of communal areas, which remained the same as in the previous year, and a drop in satisfaction with complaints, and it's worth noting that that isn't unique to us as a social housing. Landlord media benchmarking results for the survey show that that is a continuing trend across the housing sector. However, having said that, you'll see in the report that we've drafted an action plan in collaboration with our Strategic Tenant Advisory Panel, and you'll note that most of the actions focus on those two areas where performance has either remained the same or decreased because we were very conscious that that's where we need to focus on making the most improvements, and yeah very much welcome any comments or feedback from committee on what's in the action plan. Thank you very much for that.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:14:53

Introduction of shall open it up to Councillor Martin. Thank you. First of all, the results overall are excellent. So big

Cllr Alan Martin - 1:15:01

congratulations to the to the team. I had two areas that I focused in on one was so 2.5 effective handling of complaints which, as you flagged, was one of the areas where we saw a bit of a deterioration of first will got a question for clarification, which is you you you saying here,

Mr. Philip, there's a.

you're saying that people who completed the survey perhaps didn't understand the difference between the Council's definition of a complaint and what was, in actual fact, a request for service. Could you just explain that a little bit yeah OK for the easiest, why I was fine to explain? This is using a real life example. If someone rings us and says 0, my boiler is not working, they may think that as a complaint in housing speak about as though I'm asking us to do something if they then contacted. As a couple of weeks later, I've already told you my boiler is not working, you still haven't fixed it. That would then become a complaint

OK, so is there a way that we can in any way follow up and clarify that with the people who complete the survey, because it may well be in actual fact, you've got a problem in the in the other area which has leaked into into that category. Indeed, and yes, that's that's one of the actions in the action plan and my team and I have already started going through all the comments we received and trying to pinpoint where the issues are, particularly for the repairs related issues. I've asked the repairs team to follow up and give us updates on progress of each of the comments that were made in the survey responses, perfect all right, thank you, and it might. The other area was as intrigued by the satisfaction split by

region.

so at a high level with the satisfaction it seemed like the satisfaction levels were really high, for instance in focus focus and central, and then when you go to the more rural areas in particular Romney Marsh is quite a bit lower so I looked into it in actual fact that that pattern is then repeated across quite a lot of other Satish so safety was I treated fairly and with respect is my home well maintained in each of those instances?

Folkestone Central seems to perform really well and the other more rural areas less so. Do you have a sense of why why that is not a specific sense at this stage, while no more once we've finished going through all the comments, but we have already identified, but that it seems to be a continuing trend since the previous survey and we're very, very conscious that this year we want to do a lot more active engagement down on the mass so that we can engage with people better, understand what their issues are, so that we can resolve them and for this year's survey we want to try and combine it if we can, with our neighborhood inspections, so that we can almost sort of a have your say day where we can go and do the survey picking up on Councillor McConville's point earlier and say about people who might not want to fill in a survey, we can capture their feedback in person and gather it that way. Yeah yeah, because it is quite intriguing, isn't it, because I was thinking initially, it might be because the stock's not so good or whatever, but

it's repeated across lots of other different sections, and presumably the people on the Marsh are served by exactly the same team as the the people in Folkestone Central, so it's it's not particularly intuitive, is it now no, you're absolutely right any of the same housing team, our neighbourhood officers and our surveyors have patches that they work on, but it is essentially the same team and they all work to the same standards, definitely something that will be able to tease out more once we go through the comments in further detail, yeah lovely, thank you

Councillor Jones, I think, although you said or he got a lot of responses, it was only 20.4% wasn't it, which is quite small, so I think I would really like to see.

that's a bigger response so that you can actually get a more accurate view, and then you might get more accurate view across to the Marsh and other places as well, so I think your idea of doing perhaps the verbal surveys wouldn't be a bad idea but how you record that data I don't know without it being biased, it's tricky, isn't it?

it is thank you, Councillor Jones, very good point and one of the things that we are exploring this year rather than doing just a postal and online survey, is employing an external company to do the surveys

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:19:06

by telephone with tenants, and that way it would then be anonymous as well so they would maybe feel a bit more able to be a bit more honest than they would if it's directly to the council.

so you will be able to report back on that later in the year, but that's something that we are actively looking at at the moment for this year's survey, I think there'd be really interesting to see the

Cllr Anita Jones - 1:19:25

difference in the results that you get, if you have a more than 20% actually and hopefully more positive when we're looking at this year's

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:19:33

10 derive, I've upped the number of responses that we would like.

however, I was going to clarify that point, sorry, did you want to come in?

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:19:41

Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 1:19:43

fixture, acknowledges Gladys is incredibly difficult to get people to come to surveys in we extended the time out for this a number of times, and it wasn't until we added three 50 pounds vouchers into the mix that we actually got another, I think we were only on about two and a half 250 people or something about point and we put three vouchers in the mix and we got up to our level after about another four weeks, but we we want every, we will love everyone so we can take that feedback and we can improve the services overall, we're delighted this year of the majority of this.

there are few anomalies to work through in a performance tape with Mickey's team are working through that, but in the overall movement and direction of this is very positive, but it is very difficult so any suggestions we will take them on board without breaking the bank obviously,

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:20:42

Councillor McConville, yeah, I just to sort of echo a little bit of what Councillor Martin just said.

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:20:48

a lot of the the large, scoring lowest percentages of a lot of the the categories where, in my ward, East Folkestone.

which obviously I've been doing, walk around with housing officers for for many years and

majority, I would say way more than what this survey shows. Those people are very happy with and the housing service in East Folkestone, so it was a little bit disappointing there and I would like to sort of get to the bottom of why there is it might be in the report, but I couldn't see, but of the 684 does it break it down anywhere in terms of the numbers of of the individual, was just so good. That would help have a snapshot survey, and if, if there was only 20 years out of that 684, that Renée folks and then maybe that was skewering those results slightly, your is there a breakdown of those there is a breakdown, Councillor Campbell, I haven't got it to hand at the moment, I'm afraid, but I can find that out and get it to you, that that would be helpful, just to try and understand understand that the figures a bit more

and I suppose I mean the action pen, I mean, it's a lot of it's, obviously you know reviewing comments and you're working with.

the the other people that do all that, but yeah.

they seem quite sort of brought quite wide, ranging broad set of actions, so I don't know if there was any more sort of.

specific sort of targets that the EU would use to measure this down the line. So you know you could go right, yet we did that we did that. Obviously you're always reviewing and constantly doing that, so I didn't know that if they had anything to say about that in terms of a more detailed set of actions, yeah, that's another very good point. Thank you. So we think they're very much as a live document and we

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:22:39

will regularly review it, and now we have monthly housing leadership team meetings and we will regularly review it in those meetings, along with the Strategic Tenant Advisory Panel as well, and we will add things to it and update progress on it as we go. And yes, it will be very much an evolving piece of work and as we find out more once, we've delved into the comments that will undoubtedly lead to further actions that will will add in and we're more than happy. I'm more than happy to come back and report progress to you as a committee later in the game

I just think you know when the next one comes out, if the percentages

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:23:12

have gone up and engagements, gone up and everything he could say Well, we did this this this and this, and this is this, is the the result, it's always in my mind that I'd just like to say

well, where we re you're at what's happened and where you have hopefully improved on, so we do a lot of that with the other council copies and things like that so.

that very, very much, that, and we have we have every six months, we

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:23:39

send a newsletter to all tenants, and in the other six months we send them what we call a your voice, our action bulletin and it very much focuses on what we've done and changes and improvements we put in place based on resident feedback, so this will very much feed into those

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:23:56

why did you have an or a recommendation that you wanted to add in that respect, to Councillor McConville, or something concrete you wanted to

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:24:04

know only to say very happy to have this come back to committee for for more updates once some of this review work and and a lot of the comments could been sort of gone through and you know if there are any sort of specific areas that are a bit more focused then that might be the time,

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:24:24

I think that's agreed yeah, thank you, Councillor Butcher yeah, I just wanted to echo what others have said about the the kind of

Cllr James Butcher - 1:24:29

geographical differences sounds like I've done a similar thing to Councillor Martin off of pulling together the on each measure you've got how the different areas do, it's when you pull that together in one table, what comes through from that is that yeah, folks in East Romney, Marsh folks in northern rural together a kind of bottom. So yes, actually it's great to hear about engagement in the Marsh, but it sounds like that needs to be repeated elsewhere. Maybe there's just something about next time. It comes back just making it easy to see those discrepancies geographically because it is focused on a district council and this has a theme that I think comes up elsewhere to just making sure that people across the district are getting the attention and quality of services that they deserve just as much as people in Folkestone Central absolutely agree very much thanks, thank you Councillor Butcher,

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:25:23

that's something else I should have mentioned earlier, yes, one of the other things I'm very keen to do in this year's methodology and make sure the number of responses in each area is proportionate to the number of properties we've got in each area as far as possible, obviously it won't be an exact science but to make it as representative and robust as we possibly can.

could you just clarify that that definition folks in north and rural,

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:25:45

that that isn't necessarily a construct, that we see in other bits of the the Council terminology where what is that area and what does it relate to in terms of wards? It's a historic way that the housing

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:25:59

service has allocated its patches within the district, but I can give you a breakdown of which areas on boards are within each of those six areas and again more than happy to break it down at ward level in future years. I think that would make it much more useful, particularly for you as members

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:26:20

thank you, and do you have the ability to go back to t to deal with individual issues that are raised through the survey, if a tenant has raised an issue, for example, damp and mould or whatever it may be, do you have the ability then to go back and and do something about those issues we do indeed yes, one of the questions in last year's survey

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:26:38

was if you would like us to contact you in response to any of your comments, please let us know and that's that's forming part of the work we're doing now, reviewing them and and responding where appropriate.

thank you for clarifying that.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:26:51

Councillor McConville, just just a little thing, I mean, it might have

Cllr Connor McConville - 1:26:56

been noticed already, but for maintaining building safety, and I think it's on page 41 of the physical report says Romney Marsh was the lowest, was 72 but frozen he says as 70% so if we could just actually just amend that if it hasn't been amended already thanks I do apologise, thank you for spotting that we will get that changed.

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:27:18

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:27:22

Councillor Butcher, sorry, you one more thing, it was the the bit about equalities, we'd got the following group showing slightly lower

Cllr James Butcher - 1:27:26

levels of satisfaction, and I know you said, particularly with the LGBTQ very low numbers of responses, but there's some questions I guess down there about equalities and I just wondered what what you might be able to do to just to dig into that to understand how have we got an issue or is it just because of low responses?

I would imagine it is due to a low response because of those questions

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:27:50

and the way they are, we always have to include or prefer not to say option which which does tend to skew results, some people may not feel comfortable disclosing the answers, but we are very keen that we do continuously monitor that information and one of the projects I am working on with my team separately to this is how best we can gather up to date. Demographic and EDHR information from residents,

but is there any thinking as to why those groups would be reporting

Cllr James Butcher - 1:28:16

low levels of satisfaction, not that we know of now, I think generally, as it picks up on what you said a moment ago, the responses

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:28:24

that we get because they are such a small group of respondents in the first place the the number that that we have to draw from on that is is very small and probably too small to draw meaningful conclusions again, picking up on what Councillor Davidson said if there are specific issues that people have identified but they want us to go back to them and we are we are doing that.

certainly nothing in the comments that we've reviewed so far, that indicates any sort of discrimination or anything like that.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:28:56

I think can just one of the aspects of that that we talked about at a previous committee meeting was around communication and if appointments are changed, or if people have particular circumstances, that means they can only have appointments at certain times of day, for example, and I think that the point in the survey about feeling listened to kind of ties into that doesn't it so I just wanted to ask how all of this work feeds into the procurement work that's going on in terms of,

contracting for the repairs service, because some of some of these comments will undoubtedly relate to the to the repairs service or, as it is at the moment, so thank you very much, hit the nail on the head

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:29:35

as as, as you will have seen. Most of the feedback does relate to communication and repairs, and very often the two go hand in hand. I may have to look to Andy for a follow-up point on this, but as I understand that we are very much looking to involve tenants in the relevant aspects of the procurement of the new repairs contract. Thank you

Mr Andy Blaszkowicz - 1:29:55

yeah, I mean it's a common theme, all the way through tenant satisfaction, if you look at the figures and we'd start looking up, say ever since the service has been back in house, but the the links to satisfaction with repairs to overall satisfaction.

a remarkably close across the board are, and again I have improved significantly over the last year, as have repairs satisfaction with repairs and particularly satisfaction with repairs in the last 12 months rather than the period in general, so we can see that is a closer period where we're being obviously working very closely with the contractors and stuff like that.

Salisbury positive, so there is a key area that we will be working on ourselves, a huge piece of work now with the procurement going on, for the repairs and maintenance contract on to start in April 2025.

Mike is exactly right, staff that Ofsted the Tenant Advisory Panel will be having members in involved with the procurement, particularly focusing on that element of how they work with the tenants, how they keep their appointments, what they do, how they increase their customer satisfaction, so that that is a really key part of that procurement and using their tenants to help with that process is key to,

the success of it, thank you.

are there any other questions or comments?

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:31:10

what do you think the right sort of timeframe for coming back to the committee would be in terms of updating on progress with the action

Folkestone & Hythe Officer - 1:31:22

plan, I would say, probably May June time would be a very good time to come back to you if that's possible because then by then hopefully the new survey for this year will be alive and we were able to give you an update on some emerging themes from this year as well if that were but I think we can look at that so thanks very much for that.

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:31:38

OK, we put some recommendations before us on the agenda item to receive and note the report to note the results of the survey and to note the action plan, and we've provided comments on that, so can I have a proposal for that Councillor McConville and a seconder, thank you Councillor Martin, I think just got in there first is everyone in agreement with that.

great alright, thank you very much,

that's all the items on the agenda for this evening, I did just want

Cllr Laura Davison - 1:32:08

to flag up for members, and also people who might be following along that the ability now to send in suggestions for the annual scrutiny programme for the forthcoming 2024 2025 year is open and the information is on the Council website about that and I think this communications that people may have seen around that as well, just I would encourage people if they've got topics that they'd like the committee to consider to send those in

for us to have a look at and to then draw up a work plan for next year, suggestions must be received by 5 o'clock on the 23 of February, so if people can also just let their residents know about that, then hopefully we'll get some good suggestions through from people to inform our work for the next.

period of time, thank you very much, everybody, thank you.

Overview and Scrutiny Committee - Tuesday 30 January 2024, 6:00pm - Feedback Tab - Folkestone & Hythe webcasting